I started this list several weeks ago and then my life got all hectic and I
never got to start it exactly how I wanted to.

I'm looking at egroups, and I'm seeing 39 people have joined!

All those of you who joined, introduce yourself, and I want to kick things
off with this topic:

Do you remember the first time you ever dialed out on a modem.  Describe
the experience, where you called, what it was like, what equipment and
software you used, the software and platform the board was running on and
anything else you remember.  What drew you to computers, and specifically,
to the online world?  What music did you listen to when you were
online?  Do you remember where you were leeching from when the Space
Shuttle crashed?  ;-)

And if you ran a BBS, talk about it.  Anyone else can suggest a
topic.  This is a time period that needs to be preserved and this list is
but one way.

Let's go!



=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

I guess I'll start off.

Had the handle Asmodeus for about 13 years or so now.

First time I ever dialed out? A guy my dad knew saw I was into computers and
showed me this program called ProComm Plus, and with a few numbers, you could
connect to other peoples computers and talk to others and get files.

It was all down hill from there.  About a year later, I was calling all over
the Chicagoland area grabbing files and talking to people.  Then I decided to
start my own BBS while I was in the UIC dorms, which later transferred to my
house... The BBS name was The HellFire Cafe, and after I got on a few message
nets like Can-Am, and FIDO and such, there was even the BBS E-Zine (The Hell
Chronicles) written by he, my alter ego, and a few local contributors.

It enjoyed a short circulation of about a year, but the cool thing was that
for as local as this all was, I got a few calls from people in California and
Florida saying that they loved the thing and wanted to know if they could
download the rest of the issues.. there werent any new ones.. I almost felt
bad to waste their phone bills like that.

what else.. (thinking).. well, I met my g/f of 5 years now on that same
board..

Like its always been said, sysops get the best chicks, and Renegade sysops
get even better <g>

Cheers,
Asmodeus

I remember I called my neighbors BBS.  He set it up specifically to let me
call into it.  and his little sister kept picking up the phone and saying
"Hello?  Hello?"

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Rex Iscariot wrote:

> I started this list several weeks ago and then my life got all hectic and I
> never got to start it exactly how I wanted to.
>
> I'm looking at egroups, and I'm seeing 39 people have joined!
>
> All those of you who joined, introduce yourself, and I want to kick things
> off with this topic:
>
> Do you remember the first time you ever dialed out on a modem.  Describe
> the experience, where you called, what it was like, what equipment and
> software you used, the software and platform the board was running on and
> anything else you remember.  What drew you to computers, and specifically,
> to the online world?  What music did you listen to when you were
> online?  Do you remember where you were leeching from when the Space
> Shuttle crashed?  ;-)
>
> And if you ran a BBS, talk about it.  Anyone else can suggest a
> topic.  This is a time period that needs to be preserved and this list is
> but one way.
>
> Let's go!
>
>
>
> =============================================================
> Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA
>
> http://www.frostwarning.com
> http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List
>
> "I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
> =============================================================
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 80sBBS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

Hello all..

I ran hacking/phreaking related bbs's since about 1983 or so. I
started running Atari BBS's, then moved to IBM based software shortly
thereafter..

I am currently trying to find some of the old bbs software that was
based on forum (extreme, genesis, fcp, to name a few)..

I am also DESPERATELY looking for a bbs software that was relased by
the hacker group PHORTUNE 500 in the late 80's called TransPhor.
Please do not be confused by another ware called TransPhor 2000.

I have lots of stories to tell if this group gets active.. I would
also be interested in possibly hosting a site away from egroups where
we could also share files..

werd..

At 10:40 PM 1/9/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello all..
>
>I ran hacking/phreaking related bbs's since about 1983 or so. I
>started running Atari BBS's, then moved to IBM based software shortly
>thereafter..
>
>I am currently trying to find some of the old bbs software that was
>based on forum (extreme, genesis, fcp, to name a few)..
>
>I am also DESPERATELY looking for a bbs software that was relased by
>the hacker group PHORTUNE 500 in the late 80's called TransPhor.
>Please do not be confused by another ware called TransPhor 2000.
>
>I have lots of stories to tell if this group gets active.. I would
>also be interested in possibly hosting a site away from egroups where
>we could also share files..
>
>werd..

Sounds great.  I can only do so much to facilitate things here.  I invite
anyone who is subscribed to start on any topic.

Good to hear from you.


=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

--- In 80sBBS@egroups.com, "Epsilon Process" <epsilon@p...> wrote:
> Somehow I think he missed the entire point of the discussion, which
> was indeed about how BBSes got started, how they evolved during the
> 80's and 90's and the state of the "industry" today.
>
> It's funny. This sorta reminds me of how people pretty much posted
> and acted on BBSes way back when. I guess the technology changes,
but
> people's attitudes remain as stale as ever.
>
>
    Wow..   You just took the words out of my... err.. keyboard.
Its funny,  I can almost "see" these types of posts on my old
favority 'Elite' BBS haunts..

	 - Beave@...

Hello all..  What a great place this is...

Lets see,  to make this a little more condensed,  I'll just rattle
off somethings...

First Computer:  TI/994A... What a great little machine.  Went to
a VIC20 (w/ a VIC modem),  then to a C64 w/ a 1660 (woo!).... etc..
etc...

I think the first board I called was a little local board (In
Tallahassee, Florida).  I don't even remember who the Sysop was.  It
was a custom written job... It didn't even ask for a password,  all
you had to do was enter a username.   The conversations really
weren't that interesting,  but it got me looking around and meeting
people.  I think the 414's had been busted a couple of years eariler,
and thats what set me to find the more interesting boards.  The VIC
modem was a pain in the ass.   Manual dial/Manual Answer (so forget
about running a BBS).   You'd pick up you phone,  dial the number,
wait for the carrier (with the phone next to your head) ,   and switch
the modem....  300 baud at 30 columns (?) looked really fast (grin).
If I remember correctly,  the VIC20 didn't even have 40 columns..

I got my C64,  w/ a 1660,  and I was in heaven.   This made entirely
new things possible!  Lets see if anyone remembers this...

My favorite terminal software for the C64 was "PhoneMan 6.6".  I can
still remember the, "By the Motorcity Madman",  scroll...  It had
redbox,  greenbox,  silverbox and of course,  bluebox tones.  If I
remember correctly, it was written for the 1650 modem (I'm guessing
that the C64 actually did the DTMF tones for the 1650),  but worked
great with my 1660 (with the phone next to my monitor speaker.. I'll
get to that)....

Needless to say,  most of theses boxes did nothing for me.  Then a
friend (Abby) showed me a 1-800 number you could bluebox off of.
Yesh.  I'm suprised I never got busted.

    I made alot of calls off that (very stupidly.. until I read "Better
Homes and Blueboxing", I didn't know how bad I was blueboxing).. I
loved Phoneman's the terminal software.. which had "punter"..  As
someone pointed out,  probably the best C64 download protocol...
PhoneMan even had a little "mini-bbs" mode you could put it into.

    I ran a little BBS, (I think the first software I ran was "TLGBBS"
- AKA "The Lonely Guy BBS software - C64 software),  from time to
time, called "The Upper Deck".  I'd get lots of people asking what
"baseball cards", I had from time to time,  but it was a H/P board
("Upper Deck" was a line of baseball cards).  The reason for the name?
In my area,  we use to call computers, "decks".   For example,  when
my buddy Shad. got his Amiga 2000 and we all stood around looking at
it,  someone would say, "wow! nice deck".   I still use that term
today, and it just sounds cool.  Its from the "Digitial Equipment
Corp" (DEC) lingo...

    Anyways,  I'm trying not to ramble to much...

    The scene in Tallahasse really got fun.  A few pure H/P boards
opened up.   Even some with H/P related echos opened.   One was, "The
Warrier Retreat".  In Tallahassee,  it was more then a H/P board.  It
was a members only board.  We could trade,  and discuss anything we
wanted there.  There where probably about 15-20 members..  The
Warriers Retreat had a "public" line,  and a "members" line as well.
If the "main" number was busy,   we'd just dial the "members" line.
Our town was only about 200,000 people...   Which was nice in some
ways.

     Sometime later,  we all started hanging out together.  We'd have,
"Hack Fest" weekends (which usually lasted much longer then the
weekends). In most H/P scenes,  you'd never meet who you're working
with,  but with us (in this small town),  we hungout all the time.
We'd plan a meeting point,  stay up for days,  and learn through each
other.  Scanning PSN's,  wardialing,  and doing things we really
shouldn't have been doing...  It was fun though..

	 In that time (and since),  I've ment some incredible people that to
this day,  I still call my friends,  that I still talk to (sometimes,
not as much).   I really think that my BBS'ing/sharing information
taught me things that I would have never have learned anywhere else.
As I've been writting this,  I can't help but think of so many other
things I'd like to write about,  but thats beyond the scope of this
post.

	 Before I end this,   I'd like to point out that BBS'ing isn't dead.
When I saw Jason Scotts,  "textfiles.com",  I knew I had to become a
mirror.  If just for the sake that if his awesome textfiles somehow
burned,  I'd still have some of the archives.

	 Its wierd.... It seems now,  that "Internet" BBS's are on the
come back.  Now days, you don't have to wait for that busy signal to
end.   There are actually some good Internet BBS's out there...
They don't re-cap the "ANSI" graphics,  but they have good solid
posts.... thats what I look for anyway.... You can still find them...

       (ssh -l bbs) english.gh0st.net
       (ssh -l bbs) bbs.firest0rm.net

       (telnet/ssh -l bbs) bbs.vistech.net (Upper Deck)
             or 850-942-0095.....


      - Anyways... its nice to see this area...

uhhh..

Believe it or not, I have been also seeking Phone Man and other
C64/Atari 8bit H/P programs.

Do you know where I might could find that software? I have posted to
newsgroups searching for it with no luck.. and none of the ebay
auctions that have included disks have happened to have it.

*Disclaimer* - Before anyone goes off and calls me lame, tells me to
download BlueBeep or ToneLoc, or anything else - let me state that I
am simply seeking these tools for nostalia purposes - I realize that
under 5ESS/DMS blueboxing doesnt work - and I also understand I can
build a redbox to use - I simply want to add the programs to my 8 bit
h/p utility collection.

Thanks to anyone who replies.

At 03:53 AM 1/10/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>uhhh..
>
>Believe it or not, I have been also seeking Phone Man and other
>C64/Atari 8bit H/P programs.
>
>Do you know where I might could find that software? I have posted to
>newsgroups searching for it with no luck.. and none of the ebay
>auctions that have included disks have happened to have it.

Phoneman ought not to be too hard to find as almost everyone who used it
recalls it quite fondly.  You might be able to find it on some emulator sites.

>*Disclaimer* - Before anyone goes off and calls me lame, tells me to
>download BlueBeep or ToneLoc, or anything else - let me state that I
>am simply seeking these tools for nostalia purposes - I realize that
>under 5ESS/DMS blueboxing doesnt work - and I also understand I can
>build a redbox to use - I simply want to add the programs to my 8 bit
>h/p utility collection.


I'd imagine most people would come to the conclusion that that's what
you're doing; I'm sure there are far more advanced tools available in 32
bit that people would use if they really wanted to mess around with tones.

I'm sure some old code hackers must be around as well.


=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

At 03:40 AM 1/10/2001 +0000, you wrote:

>         Hello all..  What a great place this is...
>
>Lets see,  to make this a little more condensed,  I'll just rattle
>off somethings...
>
>First Computer:  TI/994A... What a great little machine.  Went to
>a VIC20 (w/ a VIC modem),  then to a C64 w/ a 1660 (woo!).... etc..
>etc...

The 1660 was if I remember right, annoyingly incompatible with several
kinds of term software.  For awhile I had a Mitey Mo which had the same
problem; whereas the 1650 and the Westridge were compatible with everything.


>about running a BBS).   You'd pick up you phone,  dial the number,
>wait for the carrier (with the phone next to your head) ,   and switch
>the modem....  300 baud at 30 columns (?) looked really fast (grin).
>If I remember correctly,  the VIC20 didn't even have 40 columns..

I think the Vic20 had 22 columns like the TI 99/4a

Which leads me to the question - I wonder if anyone is, just for nostalgia
purposes or whatever, running BBSes on C=64's and old software like C-Net
or Image.  I suppose it wouldn't matter too much since I don't know of any
PC terms that can emulate Commodore graphics.

>I got my C64,  w/ a 1660,  and I was in heaven.   This made entirely
>new things possible!  Lets see if anyone remembers this...
>
>My favorite terminal software for the C64 was "PhoneMan 6.6".  I can
>still remember the, "By the Motorcity Madman",  scroll...  It had
>redbox,  greenbox,  silverbox and of course,  bluebox tones.  If I
>remember correctly, it was written for the 1650 modem (I'm guessing
>that the C64 actually did the DTMF tones for the 1650),  but worked
>great with my 1660 (with the phone next to my monitor speaker.. I'll
>get to that)....

Yeah...There's got to be copies of Phoneman still lying around.  I was
never into phreaking but I used it as a term for a few years.

>Needless to say,  most of theses boxes did nothing for me.  Then a
>friend (Abby) showed me a 1-800 number you could bluebox off of.
>Yesh.  I'm suprised I never got busted.

Lots of people never got busted early on; it was kind of amazing what you
could get away with early on.  All of that changed by the end of the 1980s
though.

>    I made alot of calls off that (very stupidly.. until I read "Better
>Homes and Blueboxing", I didn't know how bad I was blueboxing).. I
>loved Phoneman's the terminal software.. which had "punter"..  As
>someone pointed out,  probably the best C64 download protocol...
>PhoneMan even had a little "mini-bbs" mode you could put it into.

Yeah, like a Host Mode.  Punter was always preferred and probably most
often used since you were probably downloading Commodore software from a
Commodore BBS.  I wonder where Steve Punter is today.

>     Sometime later,  we all started hanging out together.  We'd have,
>"Hack Fest" weekends (which usually lasted much longer then the
>weekends). In most H/P scenes,  you'd never meet who you're working
>with,  but with us (in this small town),  we hungout all the time.
>We'd plan a meeting point,  stay up for days,  and learn through each
>other.  Scanning PSN's,  wardialing,  and doing things we really
>shouldn't have been doing...  It was fun though..

That's cool.  The only meets I remember happening were for ddials.  However
I did get to meet a few sysops in my area (201/908) at the time.

>         In that time (and since),  I've ment some incredible people that to
>this day,  I still call my friends,  that I still talk to (sometimes,
>not as much).   I really think that my BBS'ing/sharing information
>taught me things that I would have never have learned anywhere else.
>As I've been writting this,  I can't help but think of so many other
>things I'd like to write about,  but thats beyond the scope of this
>post.

I keep running into people from back then; when I went to college I ran
into them at the radio station and college paper at Rutgers, and once in
awhile a mail comes in from someone I haven't talked to in 10 years who
found a reference to me in a search engine or whatever.

>         Before I end this,   I'd like to point out that BBS'ing isn't dead.
>When I saw Jason Scotts,  "textfiles.com",  I knew I had to become a
>mirror.  If just for the sake that if his awesome textfiles somehow
>burned,  I'd still have some of the archives.

Yeah, that mother lode has got to be preserved and needs to keep
growing.  I wish there was a way to send out a beacon to people to send me
their old disks; hell I'd make it a personal goal to go through them and
preserve all of that stuff.  It was colorful.  I still can't put my finger
on exactly why it matters so much to me or why I enjoy reading those old
files so much, but I do.  Most of them don't contain useful information,
most (not all) of them that try to be funny aren't very.  Lots of teenage
ramblings about breaking stuff, burning stuff, breaking into stuff....Much
of it outdated or juvenile yet I can spend hours reading it.

>         Its wierd.... It seems now,  that "Internet" BBS's are on the
>come back.  Now days, you don't have to wait for that busy signal to
>end.   There are actually some good Internet BBS's out there...
>They don't re-cap the "ANSI" graphics,  but they have good solid
>posts.... thats what I look for anyway.... You can still find them...


Hey speaking of which - if you recall ANSI graphics displayed via a TSR of
some sort that you installed under DOS.  Does anyone know of an ANSI viewer
for the PC?  A lot of telnet programs support the color but not the high
characters.


=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

I just subscribed and figured I'd introduce myself.

I got started in bbsing a little later than a lot of others here I'm sure, I
got involved in middle school, about 10 years ago - 1990/1991.  I lived in
the 206 (now 253 - western washington state) AC and called mostly peedee
boards for about a year.  I setup several boards, none of them very
sucessfull.  I was allways much better as a user than a sysop I guess.

As a freshman in high school, my interest in computers rocketed, and as a
result ... socially anyway, things went downhill from that point on.  I
called a lot of local underground boards, and was really involved for up
through my junior year in high school.  Boards I remember from that time
include ice station zebra, and mindstream.  I had a couple of buddies at the
time who were really nuts about the h/p scene.  I didn't get it, but I
watched them start several textfile groups and move around between them.

Everyone involved in that scene (in this area) was eventually busted -
usually in the form of a couple of telco guys at the front door talking with
the parents.  Everyone cooled off for a while, and I spent my senior year
worrying about college, girls, and unix.

As a result I pretty much dropped off the bbs scene until 1996.  By that
time I had moved to 509 (eastern washington state) and out of sheer boredom
started calling local boards.  I don't recall any of the local boards I was
active on, but I remember calling &TOTSE and several h/p message oriented
boards on a regular basis... via the usual means when long-distance was
concerned ;)

I also remember around this time, everyone really started whining about how
"good it was in the past" and how the "current scene sucked".  I got tired
of it and ended up getting lost in the whole linux phenomenon that was
popping up.  I spent the next couple of years job-hopping, hanging out in
IRC, and being a linux/freebsd weenie ;)

About a year ago, I started calling telnet boards again.  I'm still active
on telnet boards as a rule and I spend as much as an hour a day grabbing qwk
packets off of boards I call via ftp.  I really only call 3 boards these
days, and I'm allways looking for other good ones.  (got a good board and
want a maniacal message poster?  send me a plug for your board ;)

The current scene is a little depressing, but I didn't really see it slide,
I was busy doing other things at the time.  I'm just glad bbs's haven't died
out completely.  I'd probably be a kuro5hin or /. junkie otherwise ;)

If your looking for some (what I think) are the better underground messaging
boards out there - try sector7 (sector7.demonic.net), insomia
(inso.darktech.org), or hax0r's palace (unknownrealm.org).  All of em are
zeronet boards (probably the last fido-style underground network around).

I ramble, anyway - looking forward to hanging out here.

  xterminus / Email: xterminu@...

...Last weke I cudn't even spel kumpooter programer and today I are one!

In a message dated 1/9/01 5:01:19 PM Central Standard Time,
doctorx@... writes:

> I ran hacking/phreaking related bbs's since about 1983 or so. I
>  started running Atari BBS's, then moved to IBM based software shortly
>  thereafter..

i remember living on those types of boards back in those days. mostly to grab
files just to bulletproof my own bbs which more thana few people liked to try
and hack into.

anyone remember the old "name %UN" trick for crashing renegade?

I'll look through my piles of files for that software tho. transphor sounds
vaguely familiar.

> Hey speaking of which - if you recall ANSI graphics displayed via a TSR of
> some sort that you installed under DOS.  Does anyone know of an ANSI viewer
> for the PC?  A lot of telnet programs support the color but not the high
> characters.
>

If you're talking about under Win32, change your font to something like
System or Terminal.. One of those two support the high ascii - I just
forget which one. :)  mTelnet/32 also supports it, and is just a great
telnet client. :)  you can snag it at www2.taciturn.net/mtelb7.zip  -i
forget the homepage addy.  Hope this helps!

Joe

At 11:10 AM 1/10/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>If you're talking about under Win32, change your font to something like
>System or Terminal.. One of those two support the high ascii - I just
>forget which one. :)  mTelnet/32 also supports it, and is just a great
>telnet client. :)  you can snag it at www2.taciturn.net/mtelb7.zip  -i
>forget the homepage addy.  Hope this helps!

Thanks!


=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

> Do you remember the first time you ever dialed out on a modem.
> Describe the experience...
> And if you ran a BBS, talk about it.  Anyone else can suggest a
> topic.  This is a time period that needs to be preserved and this
> list is but one way.
>
> Let's go!
>
Well, lets see.  I first logged on to a BBS from my friends Apple
II+, oh god, about 17 years ago now.  I think I was 13 at the time.
That makes me 30. Hmm.  I am 31, so I am missing a year somewhere.

My father taught at Arizona State University.  I used to check out a
Silent 700 printing terminal to BBS with.  It used thermal paper on a
roll and had an acoustic coupler for a modem.  (Like in the movie
Wargames).

I used to call loads of Phoenix Arizona area BBSes.   I ran a BBS
called Tardis II, for about eight years.  It ran on home brew
software written in Turbo Pascal.

I have started my own egroups list for it.  It has a website as
well.  The idea is to create a web site and email group for users of
the old Phoenix area BBSes.

The web site is http://tardis3.netfirms.com
The mailing list is http://www.egroups.com/group/TARDIS_BBS

Everyone is invited.  Maybe we can cooperate in this venture!

Mark Firestone (the doctor)

I ran a BBS in Scotland in 1991 till 93. It ran EaziHost, Renegade and
Wildcat in its time. I will post more details later on.


Regards,

Rikki

/=======================================\
| |  Rikki                                       ICQ #: 12922587      | |
| |  StrathyCruise   [ http://www.strathycruise.com ]-   | |
\=======================================/

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Firestone <neddieseagoon@...>
To: <80sBBS@egroups.com>
Sent: 13 January 2001 12:13
Subject: [80sBBS] Re: Breakin' the Silence.


> > Do you remember the first time you ever dialed out on a modem.
> > Describe the experience...
> > And if you ran a BBS, talk about it.  Anyone else can suggest a
> > topic.  This is a time period that needs to be preserved and this
> > list is but one way.
> >
> > Let's go!
> >
> Well, lets see.  I first logged on to a BBS from my friends Apple
> II+, oh god, about 17 years ago now.  I think I was 13 at the time.
> That makes me 30. Hmm.  I am 31, so I am missing a year somewhere.
>
> My father taught at Arizona State University.  I used to check out a
> Silent 700 printing terminal to BBS with.  It used thermal paper on a
> roll and had an acoustic coupler for a modem.  (Like in the movie
> Wargames).
>
> I used to call loads of Phoenix Arizona area BBSes.   I ran a BBS
> called Tardis II, for about eight years.  It ran on home brew
> software written in Turbo Pascal.
>
> I have started my own egroups list for it.  It has a website as
> well.  The idea is to create a web site and email group for users of
> the old Phoenix area BBSes.
>
> The web site is http://tardis3.netfirms.com
> The mailing list is http://www.egroups.com/group/TARDIS_BBS
>
> Everyone is invited.  Maybe we can cooperate in this venture!
>
> Mark Firestone (the doctor)
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 80sBBS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

> >remember correctly, it was written for the 1650 modem (I'm guessing
> >that the C64 actually did the DTMF tones for the 1650),  but worked
> >great with my 1660 (with the phone next to my monitor speaker.. I'll
> >get to that)....
>
> Yeah...There's got to be copies of Phoneman still lying around.  I was
> never into phreaking but I used it as a term for a few years.

	 I'd love to have a copy.  Just to play with and laugh at.
Wonder if there are any archives of this sort of software anywhere on the
net (?).  I was thinking about starting a archive like textfiles.com,
but dedicated to the preservation of "old-school" hacking utilities.
>
> Yeah, like a Host Mode.  Punter was always preferred and probably most
> often used since you were probably downloading Commodore software from a
> Commodore BBS.  I wonder where Steve Punter is today.

	 Well,  just outta curiosity,   I looked around the 'net for
"Steve Punter".  Of course,  I found a ton of relate information
reguarding C1/Punter protocol.   Heres some stuff I found in my
little 15 minute timeout.

	 First off,  did Steve Punter become a programmer on "WordPro".
There was several "hits" about that,  and it got me wondering if it was
the same person.


- http://www.jbrain.com/pub/cbm/faq/cbm-supp-bbs-list.txt
   A list of _currently_ (Updated Jan 1st,  2001) of Commodore BBS
   that are still in operation.

- http://pds.nchu.edu.tw/pub/x2ftp/cbm/docs/punter_c1.txt
   A text about C1/Punter,  how it works,  and why it was written.
   Fairly interesting.

 	 If the "WordPro" Steve Punter is the same guy,  then in a little
chat log (that was posted - Jim Butterfields Conference Log - Of Q-Link)
said that Steve pretty much dropped the Commodore stuff (June 7th, 1998
was the log).  Gee... No real suprise there.

>
> Hey speaking of which - if you recall ANSI graphics displayed via a TSR of
> some sort that you installed under DOS.  Does anyone know of an ANSI viewer
> for the PC?  A lot of telnet programs support the color but not the high
> characters.

	 ansi.sys wasn't it?  Or something like that.

	 - Beave

I remember the c-64 days so clearly... I was getting into the scene back in
89 with a VIC-20 which I found to be very useless.. So I convinced my father
to buy me a c-64 for christmas  that year. I remember calling Q-link alot,
infact I called it too much.. My father ended up paying $200 for one month
and disconnected the service.. So I decided to look for other alternatives..
and I called a Few c-64 boards in my area.. I can't remember the names.. but
I remember some of the people that were around.. they all eventually went
IBM or AMIGA back then.. I called that the DARK SIDE.. I ran a couple of
C*base board's for a long time.. I was in one of the major h/p groups back
then.. Doing alot of phone phreaking, we use to call it coding..
VMB's,PBX's,Red Boxing, Blue Boxing, Calling Card Hacking.. All this just to
call other boards.. I wanted more.. and more.. eventually I hacked into TRW
when I was about 14 years old.. I was almost looking at a Class C Felony for
hacking into a Pay BBS who had ANI on their line.. their investigator
pranked my house telling me im going to jail etc.. but nothing ever
happened! That was about I would say 8 years ago. Ahh.. The Days.. Good ole'
c-64 Days.
----- Original Message -----
From: Da Beave <beave@...>
To: sysop <80sBBS@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [80sBBS] Beave, breakin the silence....


> > >remember correctly, it was written for the 1650 modem (I'm guessing
> > >that the C64 actually did the DTMF tones for the 1650),  but worked
> > >great with my 1660 (with the phone next to my monitor speaker.. I'll
> > >get to that)....
> >
> > Yeah...There's got to be copies of Phoneman still lying around.  I was
> > never into phreaking but I used it as a term for a few years.
>
> I'd love to have a copy.  Just to play with and laugh at.
> Wonder if there are any archives of this sort of software anywhere on the
> net (?).  I was thinking about starting a archive like textfiles.com,
> but dedicated to the preservation of "old-school" hacking utilities.
> >
> > Yeah, like a Host Mode.  Punter was always preferred and probably most
> > often used since you were probably downloading Commodore software from a
> > Commodore BBS.  I wonder where Steve Punter is today.
>
> Well,  just outta curiosity,   I looked around the 'net for
> "Steve Punter".  Of course,  I found a ton of relate information
> reguarding C1/Punter protocol.   Heres some stuff I found in my
> little 15 minute timeout.
>
> First off,  did Steve Punter become a programmer on "WordPro".
> There was several "hits" about that,  and it got me wondering if it was
> the same person.
>
>
> - http://www.jbrain.com/pub/cbm/faq/cbm-supp-bbs-list.txt
>   A list of _currently_ (Updated Jan 1st,  2001) of Commodore BBS
>   that are still in operation.
>
> - http://pds.nchu.edu.tw/pub/x2ftp/cbm/docs/punter_c1.txt
>   A text about C1/Punter,  how it works,  and why it was written.
>   Fairly interesting.
>
>   If the "WordPro" Steve Punter is the same guy,  then in a little
> chat log (that was posted - Jim Butterfields Conference Log - Of Q-Link)
> said that Steve pretty much dropped the Commodore stuff (June 7th, 1998
> was the log).  Gee... No real suprise there.
>
> >
> > Hey speaking of which - if you recall ANSI graphics displayed via a TSR
of
> > some sort that you installed under DOS.  Does anyone know of an ANSI
viewer
> > for the PC?  A lot of telnet programs support the color but not the high
> > characters.
>
> ansi.sys wasn't it?  Or something like that.
>
> - Beave
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 80sBBS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

Just so we save everyone a lot of time, perhaps we should all agree
on the fact that when someone asks to get their hands on a copy of an
old hacking/phreaking program or is looking for some sort of
instructive/how-to exploit file, it is assumed they know not to
actually USE the program or follow the instructions; they just want
it for nostalgia and collectability.

If I thought kids were stupid enough to follow most of the files on
the site, I'd be a lot less happy than I am now. (And I'm pretty
happy).

By the way, a new essay on textfiles:

http://www.textfiles.com/thoughts/anarchy.html

- Jason Scott
   TEXTFILES.COM

At 07:24 PM 1/16/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Just so we save everyone a lot of time, perhaps we should all agree
>on the fact that when someone asks to get their hands on a copy of an
>old hacking/phreaking program or is looking for some sort of
>instructive/how-to exploit file, it is assumed they know not to
>actually USE the program or follow the instructions; they just want
>it for nostalgia and collectability.
>
>If I thought kids were stupid enough to follow most of the files on
>the site, I'd be a lot less happy than I am now. (And I'm pretty
>happy).
>
>By the way, a new essay on textfiles:
>
>http://www.textfiles.com/thoughts/anarchy.html
>
>- Jason Scott
>   TEXTFILES.COM

That's a good thing to note; and I'm pretty sure anyone who is still around
today who was around back then would know better than to try that old
software..


=============================================================
Rex Iscariot <quag7@...> - Tucson, Arizona - USA

http://www.frostwarning.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/80sBBS - 1980's BBS Scene List

"I have a cunning plan." - Baldrick
=============================================================

Welp, I'm not as old school as others.  I started BBSing in about '94,
when I got my first 'real' computer, a Pentium 100.  A friend of mine
had been getting into BBSing recently too because he only recently had
gotten a 'real' computer too.

I've used a number of handles over the years, but I'm most commonly
known as Setzer, my alter ego which very much resembles that of the
character Setzer in Final Fantasy 6, hence the name.

When I first started calling out all I had was Windows Terminal, it
was, AFAIK then, the only program to call out on, and boy was it piss
poor.  8*)  Then after calling a local *adult* (if you catch my drift)
BBS the sysop there, TC, helped me out by introducing me to ComIt, my
first DOS com program.  I was estatic, what a step up from Terminal.

Months passed and more and more dial-ups entered my phone book.
Eventually I decided that it seemed simple enough, I'll start up my
own BBS, one of the first Pentium based BBSs in this area (I kid you
not).  Setzer's Airship had taken flight.  It was a great success,
sporting one of the busiest games of LORD and off the wall messages
bases you'd seen.

Then suddenly one day, my hard drive took a nose dive, I lost it all,
hundreds of users, thousands of messages, hundreds of files, all gone.
  It took me a while to get the board re-started, it was never at its
full original strength after that.

Today Setzer's Airship v3.0 is up and running, but rarely does the
modem get its usage, sitting there, hoping one day one of the local
BBSers will call it and start up a thread, this is the loneliest modem
  in BBS land...

Anywho, if anyone wishes to dial-up, it's 610.944.6391, it's in
Fleetwood, Pa, 'bout 30 minutes from Allentown and 1hr from Philly.

Greetings to you all - it's nice to be in the midst of fellow old-
timers.

A brief history of me: I started BBS'ing around '83 with my father's
HP laptop using HP Reflections and a 300 baud modem (with the handset
coupler of course).  I grew up in Nebraska, so for about 8 years,
most of my BBS'ing was done in the Omaha scene.  Anyways, I ended up
in Delaware (University of DE) and there I inherited a BBS in '92.
It was a WWIV BBS running on a DX2/66 with a 14.4 modem.  A real
screamer, to be sure  ;)  When I graduated, I handed off the BBS to a
friend and thus my career as a SysOp ended.  The BBS was called the
Badlands Café - any of you in the 302 area code might remember it
from the years of 92-96.

ANYways... I have been trying (with little success) to find a copy of
an old, OLD Apple BBS/RPG called the Proving Grounds.  It was a D&D-
based adventure game (not unlike LORD).  It was written by a fellow
by the name of Mike Heinstein around '83.  The RPG WAS the BBS.  I
guess you could say it was a stand-alone door, albeit a very in-depth
one, complete with a message system and the code built in to control
the modem, etc.  I'd be happy with either the source or an executable
distribution.  If anyone has information on this or knows where I
could look for help, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Kyle Smith
aka
Vermithrax Draconis

You're not the only one who remembers Proving Grounds. I found an
interview with a kid who calls it one of his favorite all-time games
(in two different places!):

http://ac.stratics.com/content/community/turbine/jasonbooth.shtml
http://acvault.ign.com/features/profiles/jason_booth.shtml

But enough nostalgia. Here's the program you're looking for: :)

ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/utility/communications/proving_gr\
ound_bbs.zip

That .ZIP archive contains the three disks of Proving Grounds, in the
format of .dsk image files. If you've got any familiarity with emulators
you should have no trouble loading them up. If you do, let me know and
I'll help you there at well.

This is why I do my work. Putting together people and their memories.

- Jason Scott
   TEXTFILES.COM

On 23 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:

> ANYways... I have been trying (with little success) to find a copy of
> an old, OLD Apple BBS/RPG called the Proving Grounds.  It was a D&D-
> based adventure game (not unlike LORD).  It was written by a fellow
> by the name of Mike Heinstein around '83.  The RPG WAS the BBS.  I
> guess you could say it was a stand-alone door, albeit a very in-depth
> one, complete with a message system and the code built in to control
> the modem, etc.  I'd be happy with either the source or an executable
> distribution.  If anyone has information on this or knows where I
> could look for help, I'd greatly appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle Smith
> aka
> Vermithrax Draconis

Jason -

You're a scholar and a gentlman.  I can't thank you enough.  However,
I've been a PC/DOS/Windows man all my life and am a bit lacking on
Apple know-how.  I DL'ed an emulator called Apple PC and the system
ROMS that go with it.  What do I need to do from there to get this to
run?  I tried to figure it out myself, but I ran out of patience (and
time!).

In my searches for any trace of the PG I had seen those links that
you included referring to Jason Booth.  I have yet to play Asheron's
Call, but if one of the developers (Jason) enjoyed the PG as much as
I do, then I'll probably like Asheron's Call.

Is there a utility that can open a *.dsk and export the contents to a
FAT-16 or 32 format?

Thanks in advance,

Kyle

--- In 80sBBS@egroups.com, Jason Scott <jason@t...> wrote:
>
> You're not the only one who remembers Proving Grounds. I found an
> interview with a kid who calls it one of his favorite all-time games
> (in two different places!):
>
> http://ac.stratics.com/content/community/turbine/jasonbooth.shtml
> http://acvault.ign.com/features/profiles/jason_booth.shtml
>
> But enough nostalgia. Here's the program you're looking for: :)
>
>
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/utility/communications/
proving_ground_bbs.zip
>
> That .ZIP archive contains the three disks of Proving Grounds, in
the
> format of .dsk image files. If you've got any familiarity with
emulators
> you should have no trouble loading them up. If you do, let me know
and
> I'll help you there at well.
>
> This is why I do my work. Putting together people and their
memories.
>
> - Jason Scott
>   TEXTFILES.COM
>
> On 23 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:
>
> > ANYways... I have been trying (with little success) to find a
copy of
> > an old, OLD Apple BBS/RPG called the Proving Grounds.  It was a
D&D-
> > based adventure game (not unlike LORD).  It was written by a
fellow
> > by the name of Mike Heinstein around '83.  The RPG WAS the BBS.
I
> > guess you could say it was a stand-alone door, albeit a very in-
depth
> > one, complete with a message system and the code built in to
control
> > the modem, etc.  I'd be happy with either the source or an
executable
> > distribution.  If anyone has information on this or knows where I
> > could look for help, I'd greatly appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kyle Smith
> > aka
> > Vermithrax Draconis

On 24 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:

> You're a scholar and a gentlman.  I can't thank you enough.  However,
> I've been a PC/DOS/Windows man all my life and am a bit lacking on
> Apple know-how.  I DL'ed an emulator called Apple PC and the system
> ROMS that go with it.  What do I need to do from there to get this to
> run?  I tried to figure it out myself, but I ran out of patience (and
> time!).

Your best bet would be to run AppleWin, which is literately like having a
little Apple II in a Window. I love the thing. Here's a URL to it:

http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/emulators/appleemu.AppleWin69.shtml

You should be able to download just the emulator, unpack it in a
directory, and double-click on the Apple Logo. Next thing you know, you
hear the beep over your speakers and you just click on a disk icon to load
the .dsk files I've previously pointed to you.

> In my searches for any trace of the PG I had seen those links that
> you included referring to Jason Booth.  I have yet to play Asheron's
> Call, but if one of the developers (Jason) enjoyed the PG as much as
> I do, then I'll probably like Asheron's Call.

It's interesting how many of these new guys were brought up on the games
of previous generation, and want to bring their own swing to it. I've
never played Asheron's Call, but I'm sure it's good for what it is. I do
like how often the programmer makes references to the old days, however.

> Is there a utility that can open a *.dsk and export the contents to a
> FAT-16 or 32 format?

That's what a .dsk file is. :)

A note to the rest of the list: I don't know if this all falls under the
general heading of our little mailing list, but I do believe that access
to the works of the old days is a vital part of nostalgia and remembering
what brought something to your attention in the first place.

- Jason Scott
   TEXTFILES.COM

Jason,

Once again your help is greatly appreciated.  I DL'ed the emualtor of
which you spoke.  I assigned the first *.dsk to Drive 1 and the 2nd
to drive 2.  I "rebooted" and typed "run start [enter]".  I got a
screen with a title of "Proving Grounds Status".  Under that it
said "Awaiting Caller: [3]".  Under that, "Calls Today: [2]" (a
trifle redundant, I'd say).  Under that, "Date: SUN FEB 16".

I have no idea what to do from here.  I tried every key I possibly
could.  All letters, numbers, and symbols (individually and in
conjunction with Ctrl, L-Alt (Open Apple), and R-Alt (Solid Apple).
I even tried Function keys (which only affect Windows, it seems).

Any clue what to do?  I would expect that it would be capable of
running in local mode somehow.  How else would you configure it and
do routine maintenance on the BBS?

Yes, I realize that a *.dsk is a FAT-16 or -32 file... :) What I was
trying to find out was:  Can you extract *individual* files from
a .dsk image?  I'd like to grab all the text files out of that image
and read 'em with a text editor.  I can't seem to get WinApple to
read (or display to screen) any of the text files.  I have been
attempting to use the "exec" command to accomplish this.  Perhaps I
am not using the appropriate command?

Again, any input or suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated.


Regards,

Kyle



--- In 80sBBS@egroups.com, Jason Scott <jason@t...> wrote:
>
>
> On 24 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:
>
> > You're a scholar and a gentlman.  I can't thank you enough.
However,
> > I've been a PC/DOS/Windows man all my life and am a bit lacking
on
> > Apple know-how.  I DL'ed an emulator called Apple PC and the
system
> > ROMS that go with it.  What do I need to do from there to get
this to
> > run?  I tried to figure it out myself, but I ran out of patience
(and
> > time!).
>
> Your best bet would be to run AppleWin, which is literately like
having a
> little Apple II in a Window. I love the thing. Here's a URL to it:
>
>
http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/emulators/appleemu.AppleWin69.shtml
>
> You should be able to download just the emulator, unpack it in a
> directory, and double-click on the Apple Logo. Next thing you know,
you
> hear the beep over your speakers and you just click on a disk icon
to load
> the .dsk files I've previously pointed to you.
>
> > In my searches for any trace of the PG I had seen those links
that
> > you included referring to Jason Booth.  I have yet to play
Asheron's
> > Call, but if one of the developers (Jason) enjoyed the PG as much
as
> > I do, then I'll probably like Asheron's Call.
>
> It's interesting how many of these new guys were brought up on the
games
> of previous generation, and want to bring their own swing to it.
I've
> never played Asheron's Call, but I'm sure it's good for what it is.
I do
> like how often the programmer makes references to the old days,
however.
>
> > Is there a utility that can open a *.dsk and export the contents
to a
> > FAT-16 or 32 format?
>
> That's what a .dsk file is. :)
>
> A note to the rest of the list: I don't know if this all falls
under the
> general heading of our little mailing list, but I do believe that
access
> to the works of the old days is a vital part of nostalgia and
remembering
> what brought something to your attention in the first place.
>
> - Jason Scott
>   TEXTFILES.COM

On 25 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:

> Any clue what to do?  I would expect that it would be capable of
> running in local mode somehow.  How else would you configure it and
> do routine maintenance on the BBS?

Well, we've exceeded my expertise in this matter; I couldn't tell you
what to do next, because I've never actually run that BBS. But I would
suggest to you that since you now have an Apple II in a Window, that
you should start building up your collection and relearning how to use
one.

> Yes, I realize that a *.dsk is a FAT-16 or -32 file... :) What I was
> trying to find out was:  Can you extract *individual* files from
> a .dsk image?  I'd like to grab all the text files out of that image
> and read 'em with a text editor.  I can't seem to get WinApple to
> read (or display to screen) any of the text files.  I have been
> attempting to use the "exec" command to accomplish this.  Perhaps I
> am not using the appropriate command?

I know there's a way to use the Apple Emulator's abilities to extract
some information from disks, but again I lack the specific expertise.
It sounds to me, personally, like you should re-aquaint yourself
with the commands of the Apple II, and some of the software available
to you to work with.

That site I gave you (ftp.apple.asimov.net) has many thousands of
Apple II programs you could download, like word processors or pretty
catalogs, that will let you look through all your disks, including
your now-prized proving grounds disk. I'm sure there's a way to do
a CATALOG on the disks and extract documentation. I'd check all
the disks, etc.

- Jason

Jason,

Ok, thanks.  You use the words "relearning" and "re-acquaint"...I
guess I didn't make it clear that I never actually OWNED an Apple II
(let alone used one), I just really liked using that particular BBS
which happened to be Apple-based.  If you chop off the "re", we'll be
closer to what needs to happen. :)

Thanks again for your help.


   Kyle



--- In 80sBBS@egroups.com, Jason Scott <jason@t...> wrote:
>
> On 25 Jan 2001 80sBBS@egroups.com wrote:
>
> > Any clue what to do?  I would expect that it would be capable of
> > running in local mode somehow.  How else would you configure it
and
> > do routine maintenance on the BBS?
>
> Well, we've exceeded my expertise in this matter; I couldn't tell
you
> what to do next, because I've never actually run that BBS. But I
would
> suggest to you that since you now have an Apple II in a Window,
that
> you should start building up your collection and relearning how to
use
> one.
>
> > Yes, I realize that a *.dsk is a FAT-16 or -32 file... :) What I
was
> > trying to find out was:  Can you extract *individual* files from
> > a .dsk image?  I'd like to grab all the text files out of that
image
> > and read 'em with a text editor.  I can't seem to get WinApple to
> > read (or display to screen) any of the text files.  I have been
> > attempting to use the "exec" command to accomplish this.  Perhaps
I
> > am not using the appropriate command?
>
> I know there's a way to use the Apple Emulator's abilities to
extract
> some information from disks, but again I lack the specific
expertise.
> It sounds to me, personally, like you should re-aquaint yourself
> with the commands of the Apple II, and some of the software
available
> to you to work with.
>
> That site I gave you (ftp.apple.asimov.net) has many thousands of
> Apple II programs you could download, like word processors or pretty
> catalogs, that will let you look through all your disks, including
> your now-prized proving grounds disk. I'm sure there's a way to do
> a CATALOG on the disks and extract documentation. I'd check all
> the disks, etc.
>
> - Jason

--- In 80sBBS@y..., "Vermithrax Draconis" <ksmith7964@a...> wrote:
> Jason,
>
> Once again your help is greatly appreciated.  I DL'ed the emualtor
of
> which you spoke.  I assigned the first *.dsk to Drive 1 and the 2nd
> to drive 2.  I "rebooted" and typed "run start [enter]".  I got a
> screen with a title of "Proving Grounds Status".  Under that it
> said "Awaiting Caller: [3]".  Under that, "Calls Today: [2]" (a
> trifle redundant, I'd say).  Under that, "Date: SUN FEB 16".
>
> I have no idea what to do from here.  I tried every key I possibly
> could.  All letters, numbers, and symbols (individually and in
> conjunction with Ctrl, L-Alt (Open Apple), and R-Alt (Solid Apple).



If you can give me a copy of a the Proving Grounds software
(I'm actually looking for bbs software already in a disk image
format), I can see what I can dig up as far as info for you.

> I even tried Function keys (which only affect Windows, it seems).
>
> Any clue what to do?  I would expect that it would be capable of
> running in local mode somehow.  How else would you configure it and
> do routine maintenance on the BBS?

Sysop mode.  There's usually one in every BBS program.

>
> Yes, I realize that a *.dsk is a FAT-16 or -32 file... :) What I was
> trying to find out was:  Can you extract *individual* files from
> a .dsk image?

If you have an actuall Apple II, you can transfer individual files
over through a cable setup.  As of right now, there is no software
that I know of that will allow you to directly read an apple
5 1/4" floppy.  I believe the cable method is described in the
Apple II Emu FAQ, which you should be able to find at any of the
Apple II entries over at www.computingmuseum.com.

I know I will be updating the Apple II entries at classicgaming.com
(the place you got the AppleWin emu, and where I happen to work)
with info towards this as well soon.

>I'd like to grab all the text files out of that image
> and read 'em with a text editor.  I can't seem to get WinApple to
> read (or display to screen) any of the text files.  I have been
> attempting to use the "exec" command to accomplish this.  Perhaps I
> am not using the appropriate command?

If the text files are in an ASCII format, you should be able to
look at them by booting up in a blank dos image, and then loading
in the target disk afterwords.

If you boot from the taret image right away, it's not going to
work because usually control breaks have been disabled.

>
> Again, any input or suggestions you have will be greatly
appreciated.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kyle
>



Marty
Museum of Home Video Gaming
www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum

Does anyone recall a computing magazine which ran from late 1983 to
April of 1985 called ENTER?  It contained BASIC programs each month, as
well as articles on computing.  In fact, the first issue contained an
interview with Matthew Broderick about WarGames.  Anyone remember this?

Kevin