Come on, Jery and Boyd,

(I suppose) in the understanding of the other members
and in mine THIS LIST is a forum for ideas concerning
the ambient as an energy source ...let's keep it that way!

Hubert

keep in mind WHO started it...take your 'vote'....

--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., Boyd Cantrell <bmc@p...> wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> As always you'd rather argue and cause trouble than eat, but I'm
not going
> to  accommodate you.  I'm going to ask the members of this list if
they
> want to hear any more of this kind of crap from you and I, or do
they want
> to get back to the subject of energy which the list was created
for.  They
> are over 21, so if they want to hear more of your problems, then I
will
> unsubscribe.  Who knows, maybe the new owner will even rename the
list
> "Dear Abby".
>
> Okay gang, it's up to you.  Does anyone want to hear any more of
this kind
> of stuff?  If only one member will post a "YES", then I'm out of
here and
> no hard feelings.
>
>
> Boyd

I don't recall seeing anything positive from chef boyrdee when I sent
in the Minto wheel construction details URL which he thinks
is 'promotion'...

yep, thats why they are posted FREE for anyone to use....but then
again, its not HIS theories......but something that WORKS and got
worldwide coverage from the real inventor, Wally Minto...

I certainly plan to build one and try it here in Mexico where the
temperature averages 78 degrees F. year round during the day and goes
down to about 50 at night during winter (like now)...

--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., Hustierhof@a... wrote:
> Come on, Jery and Boyd,
>
> (I suppose) in the understanding of the other members
> and in mine THIS LIST is a forum for ideas concerning
> the ambient as an energy source ...let's keep it that way!
>
> Hubert

I think I speak for the group here.

SHUT UP  Nobody wants to here it.  Nobody wants to read it.  If a mistake
was made then deal with it.. It happens.  Flaming email that contains
disrespectful monikers have no place in this calm peaceful group.

This is a group of scientists and engenders who actually get results.  If
you have valid ideas to discuss or real results to post then feel
free.  Otherwise if you feel you have to duke it out then please do it off
list!

At 05:12 AM 2/2/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't recall seeing anything positive from chef boyrdee when I sent
>in the Minto wheel construction details URL which he thinks


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 09:12 AM 2/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Jerry,
>
>You are a member and it looks like you vote to continue this crap and I


Boyd...

That comment of mine was directed at Jerry.  He is going about doing
exactly what he does best...  Get himself band from the best lists on the net.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

The good old boy system at work, quote;

"This discussion group is for people who know that it is possible to
convert existing ambient temperature heat energy into work."
--------------------------
What an interesting double standard for those living in glass houses
and talking through their 'hats', check these out, and there are
others I've not included,

its ok for Ford and Cantrell to post whatever they like when they
like, but I post it and they pitch a fit.

Ford post about Dennis Lees arrest and con, same as MY POST about Baps
con;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/332
----------------------------
Cantrell followup on Lees con, ok for him and Ford but not me???
Telling, isn't it?;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/333
----------------------------
And what do the following have to do with converting ambient
temperature into work?  This is selective discrimination based on
irrational thinking, so be it, buy BAPs CDs and wait until Ford or
Cantrell warn you, off topic of course, but then again, its fine for
them to do it and cast aspersions about things they know nothing
about.

From:  Boyd Cantrell <bmc@p...>
Date:  Fri Sep 7, 2001  6:21 pm
Subject:  Prime rate

Can anyone remember a time in our history of Presidents when the
interest rate had to be lowered every month to compensate for the
dammage done to our country?
-----------------------------
Cantrell on amateur radio;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/316
-----------------------------
Ford adding to amateur radio, no comment about 'offtopic;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/317
----------------------------
Cantrell on 'banana boat song';
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/322
-----------------------------
Ford adding to boat song comments, no comment about 'offtopic';
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/message/323
-----------------------------

--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., Charles Ford <cjford1@y...> wrote:
> At 09:12 AM 2/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Jerry,
> >
> >You are a member and it looks like you vote to continue this crap
and I
>
>
> Boyd...
>
> That comment of mine was directed at Jerry.  He is going about doing
> exactly what he does best...  Get himself band from the best lists
on the net.

For the grownups, the word is properly spelled BANNED....if you refer
to Beaty's list he asked me to rejoin, I declined because of such
selective moderation as allowing BAP to post whatever he wished and
similar to what you are attempting as your own history shows two faced
irrational behavior.

>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

This is interesting


>Charles Ford wrote:
>
> > Could you please copy send the article  (not a link)
>
>Since I am sick of working on Autocad 2000 today:
>
>         <><><><><><><><><><>
>
>February 19, 2002
>
>Building a Better Refrigerator, With Magnets
>
>By KENNETH CHANG
>
>In 1881, Emil Warburg, a German physicist, placed a piece of
>metal near a strong magnet. The metal warmed up.
>
>Present-day scientists and engineers hope to take advantage of
>that phenomenon not for heating, but the opposite: for building a
>new type of refrigerator that is quiet and efficient.
>
>They say large commercial refrigerators or air-conditioning
>systems based on the technology may be no more than a year or two
>away from the market.
>
>A company in Wisconsin has a prototype cooling unit plugged in
>and working.
>
>The cooling power of today's refrigerators comes from the
>repeated compression and expansion of a gas. As the gas expands,
>it cools and is cycled around an insulated compartment, chilling
>the contents. By contrast, magnetic refrigerators cool by
>repeatedly switching a magnetic field on and off.
>
>In certain metals, atoms act like tiny bar magnets pointing in
>random directions.
>
>When placed in a magnetic field, the bar magnets quickly pivot,
>so they are parallel with the field. That is a lower energy
>state, and the surplus energy makes the atoms vibrate, producing
>heat.
>
>In other words, the metal warms up.
>
>Engineers realized decades ago that they could turn around this
>process to draw heat away from an object and, thus, cool it.
>Magnetic refrigeration has been used in laboratories to cool
>within a degree above absolute zero.
>
>Now the same principles can be applied at everyday temperatures.
>Here is how a spinning metal disk, a magnet and some water could
>one day chill your food:
>
>The magnet straddles one part of the disk.
>
>As a part of the disk spins into a magnetic field, the tiny bar
>magnets in the disk line up, and the temperature rises. Water
>circulates over that part of the disk, cooling it.
>
>When that part of the disk leaves the magnetic field, the bar
>magnets are no longer forced into lining up.
>
>Part of the heat energy is dissipated into jostling the bar
>magnets back into random directions, cooling the disk below room
>temperature. A second stream of water runs over the disk, and
>that cool water is used to chill the refrigerator.
>
>Although the concept is straightforward, researchers have been
>refining the details, first looking for metals that maximize the
>magnetocaloric effect. The current prototype uses a disk, about
>the size of a CD, made of gadolinium, a metal used in the
>recording heads of video recorders.
>
>Earlier prototypes also used superconducting magnets - which
>themselves have to be chilled to very low temperatures - to
>generate the magnetic field.
>
>In the latest prototype, the scientists fashioned a permanent
>magnet that generates a field nearly as strong.
>
>"This is getting closer to a real machine that you put in a real
>device," said Dr. Karl A. Gschneidner Jr., a senior metallurgist
>at the Ames Laboratory in Iowa, who has been working on the
>prototypes with colleagues at Ames and a company, the
>Astronautics Corporation of America in Milwaukee.
>
>The use of a permanent magnet is "definitely a nice advance,"
>said Dr. Robert D. Shull, leader of the magnetic materials group
>at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in
>Gaithersburg, Md. But Dr. Shull said he wanted to know more
>details.
>
>"I don't know what the efficiency of it is," he said. "That's one
>of the critical numbers one needs to know whether it can be
>commercialized."
>
>There is still room for improvement.
>
>In an article published in the journal Nature last month,
>scientists at the University of Amsterdam reported that they had
>created an iron- based compound that also exhibits a large
>warming effect in a magnetic field. Iron and the other
>ingredients in the compound are considerably less expensive than
>gadolinium.
>
>Dr. Ekkes Brück, a physics professor and an author of the paper,
>called the compound "probably more feasible" for production,
>"because it is a lot cheaper."
>
>Dr. Shull said another advantage of the iron compound was that it
>worked at warmer temperatures, operating in 100-degree heat, when
>gadolinium might falter.
>
>"That is what is particularly nice about it," Dr. Shull said. "It
>has these very large effects at slightly larger temperatures."
>
>But Dr. Gschneidner worried that an ingredient in the iron
>compound was the poison arsenic, while gadolinium is harmless to
>animals and plants.
>
>"I just wouldn't want that much arsenic floating around in the
>world," he said.
>
>Dr. Shull said he doubted that the arsenic would pose a health
>risk. It would be bound to the other atoms.
>
>Dr. Brück noted that cellphones had gallium arsenic.
>
>Because gadolinium and the magnet are not cheap, a magnetic
>refrigerator would cost more than a conventional one.
>
>But it would also be more energy efficient, costing less to
>operate. And the magnetic type would not use chlorofluorocarbons,
>which eat away ozone in the upper atmosphere that protects Earth
>from harmful ultraviolet radiation.
>
>"It's environmentally much more friendly," Dr. Gschneidner said.
>
>Something else is missing, said Robert P. Herman, a senior
>engineer at Astronautics, the hum and whir of present-day
>compressors.
>
>"The only thing you may hear is a very low noise from the motor,"
>Mr. Herman said. "That's about it. Once in an enclosure, you
>don't even hear that."
>
><end>

Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

I don't think gadolinium's operating range is cold enough for food
preservation.
We were looking at it to cool avionics over 10 years ago.
At that time it was $200 a pound. Compared to $30 a gram at lab supply
companies that is a lot cheaper.
Gadolinium is pretty reactive. You would have to plate something over it to
protect it from oxygen and water.

Kirk



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ford" <cjford1@...>
To: <AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: [AMBIENTENERGY] Fwd: Re: Magnet refrigeration


> This is interesting
>
>
> >Charles Ford wrote:
> >
> > > Could you please copy send the article  (not a link)
> >
> >Since I am sick of working on Autocad 2000 today:
> >
> >         <><><><><><><><><><>
> >
> >February 19, 2002
> >
> >Building a Better Refrigerator, With Magnets
> >
> >By KENNETH CHANG
> >
> >In 1881, Emil Warburg, a German physicist, placed a piece of
> >metal near a strong magnet. The metal warmed up.
> >
> >Present-day scientists and engineers hope to take advantage of
> >that phenomenon not for heating, but the opposite: for building a
> >new type of refrigerator that is quiet and efficient.
> >
> >They say large commercial refrigerators or air-conditioning
> >systems based on the technology may be no more than a year or two
> >away from the market.
> >
> >A company in Wisconsin has a prototype cooling unit plugged in
> >and working.
> >
> >The cooling power of today's refrigerators comes from the
> >repeated compression and expansion of a gas. As the gas expands,
> >it cools and is cycled around an insulated compartment, chilling
> >the contents. By contrast, magnetic refrigerators cool by
> >repeatedly switching a magnetic field on and off.
> >
> >In certain metals, atoms act like tiny bar magnets pointing in
> >random directions.
> >
> >When placed in a magnetic field, the bar magnets quickly pivot,
> >so they are parallel with the field. That is a lower energy
> >state, and the surplus energy makes the atoms vibrate, producing
> >heat.
> >
> >In other words, the metal warms up.
> >
> >Engineers realized decades ago that they could turn around this
> >process to draw heat away from an object and, thus, cool it.
> >Magnetic refrigeration has been used in laboratories to cool
> >within a degree above absolute zero.
> >
> >Now the same principles can be applied at everyday temperatures.
> >Here is how a spinning metal disk, a magnet and some water could
> >one day chill your food:
> >
> >The magnet straddles one part of the disk.
> >
> >As a part of the disk spins into a magnetic field, the tiny bar
> >magnets in the disk line up, and the temperature rises. Water
> >circulates over that part of the disk, cooling it.
> >
> >When that part of the disk leaves the magnetic field, the bar
> >magnets are no longer forced into lining up.
> >
> >Part of the heat energy is dissipated into jostling the bar
> >magnets back into random directions, cooling the disk below room
> >temperature. A second stream of water runs over the disk, and
> >that cool water is used to chill the refrigerator.
> >
> >Although the concept is straightforward, researchers have been
> >refining the details, first looking for metals that maximize the
> >magnetocaloric effect. The current prototype uses a disk, about
> >the size of a CD, made of gadolinium, a metal used in the
> >recording heads of video recorders.
> >
> >Earlier prototypes also used superconducting magnets - which
> >themselves have to be chilled to very low temperatures - to
> >generate the magnetic field.
> >
> >In the latest prototype, the scientists fashioned a permanent
> >magnet that generates a field nearly as strong.
> >
> >"This is getting closer to a real machine that you put in a real
> >device," said Dr. Karl A. Gschneidner Jr., a senior metallurgist
> >at the Ames Laboratory in Iowa, who has been working on the
> >prototypes with colleagues at Ames and a company, the
> >Astronautics Corporation of America in Milwaukee.
> >
> >The use of a permanent magnet is "definitely a nice advance,"
> >said Dr. Robert D. Shull, leader of the magnetic materials group
> >at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in
> >Gaithersburg, Md. But Dr. Shull said he wanted to know more
> >details.
> >
> >"I don't know what the efficiency of it is," he said. "That's one
> >of the critical numbers one needs to know whether it can be
> >commercialized."
> >
> >There is still room for improvement.
> >
> >In an article published in the journal Nature last month,
> >scientists at the University of Amsterdam reported that they had
> >created an iron- based compound that also exhibits a large
> >warming effect in a magnetic field. Iron and the other
> >ingredients in the compound are considerably less expensive than
> >gadolinium.
> >
> >Dr. Ekkes Brück, a physics professor and an author of the paper,
> >called the compound "probably more feasible" for production,
> >"because it is a lot cheaper."
> >
> >Dr. Shull said another advantage of the iron compound was that it
> >worked at warmer temperatures, operating in 100-degree heat, when
> >gadolinium might falter.
> >
> >"That is what is particularly nice about it," Dr. Shull said. "It
> >has these very large effects at slightly larger temperatures."
> >
> >But Dr. Gschneidner worried that an ingredient in the iron
> >compound was the poison arsenic, while gadolinium is harmless to
> >animals and plants.
> >
> >"I just wouldn't want that much arsenic floating around in the
> >world," he said.
> >
> >Dr. Shull said he doubted that the arsenic would pose a health
> >risk. It would be bound to the other atoms.
> >
> >Dr. Brück noted that cellphones had gallium arsenic.
> >
> >Because gadolinium and the magnet are not cheap, a magnetic
> >refrigerator would cost more than a conventional one.
> >
> >But it would also be more energy efficient, costing less to
> >operate. And the magnetic type would not use chlorofluorocarbons,
> >which eat away ozone in the upper atmosphere that protects Earth
> >from harmful ultraviolet radiation.
> >
> >"It's environmentally much more friendly," Dr. Gschneidner said.
> >
> >Something else is missing, said Robert P. Herman, a senior
> >engineer at Astronautics, the hum and whir of present-day
> >compressors.
> >
> >"The only thing you may hear is a very low noise from the motor,"
> >Mr. Herman said. "That's about it. Once in an enclosure, you
> >don't even hear that."
> >
> ><end>
>
> Charlie Ford
>
> KC5-OWZ
> cjford1@...
> cjford1@...
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AMBIENTENERGY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- kirk <kirk@...> wrote:
> I don't think gadolinium's operating range is cold enough for
> food
> preservation.
> We were looking at it to cool avionics over 10 years ago.
> At that time it was $200 a pound. Compared to $30 a gram at
> lab supply
> companies that is a lot cheaper.
> Gadolinium is pretty reactive. You would have to plate
> something over it to
> protect it from oxygen and water.
>
> Kirk
>

Kirk:

Yes.  In the case of the video head it is coated with acrylic.


Another thought is that the ultimate final cooling medium is
air.  Why not go direct?  Skip the losses of moving that water
around.  Plus I was thinking that maybe they are approaching it
all wrong.  Recycle hard disk plates. :-)  They are already
built into the right shape.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

I think the best method is a hot side and a cold side, the material inside
in a vacuum.
A box shaped like a book with the gadolinium visiting the cover then the
back.
If you expose it to air a metal would be the best coating.
needs to be thick enough that you don't get a hole.
It will self destruct if you do.
Gadolinium is shipped in argon.

Kirk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ford" <cjford1@...>
To: <AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AMBIENTENERGY] Fwd: Re: Magnet refrigeration


>
> --- kirk <kirk@...> wrote:
> > I don't think gadolinium's operating range is cold enough for
> > food
> > preservation.
> > We were looking at it to cool avionics over 10 years ago.
> > At that time it was $200 a pound. Compared to $30 a gram at
> > lab supply
> > companies that is a lot cheaper.
> > Gadolinium is pretty reactive. You would have to plate
> > something over it to
> > protect it from oxygen and water.
> >
> > Kirk
> >
>
> Kirk:
>
> Yes.  In the case of the video head it is coated with acrylic.
>
>
> Another thought is that the ultimate final cooling medium is
> air.  Why not go direct?  Skip the losses of moving that water
> around.  Plus I was thinking that maybe they are approaching it
> all wrong.  Recycle hard disk plates. :-)  They are already
> built into the right shape.
>
>
>
> =====
> Charles Ford
> KC5-OWZ
> cjford1@...
> cjford1@...
>

--- Boyd & Margie Cantrell <bmc@...> wrote:
> To anyone interested.
>
> I have never believed in Over-Unity, but the textbooks teach
> that when doing work to compress a gas (such as in a Heat
> pump), you get not only the heat from the low temperature
> reservoir, but also all of the heat from the work expended in
> compressing the gas too.
>
> Is that not Over-Unity?  I mean that in any other type of
> physics, you exchange your work for what ever you get.

Unfortunately it is not. :-(  Although it seems to have an
energy gain all of the output energy is explained by the input.

A little logic and some plain old accounting would prove this
true.  However.

Say you start with ambient air and extract from that air by
cooling a constant 1000W.  Your energy cost (assuming 70%
efficiency) would be about 1300W.  The output heat would of
course be 2300W  (good accounting)

Now if you could use this output at a greater efficiency than
is allowed (say 70%) then you built an apparent perpetuator.
You would be extracting something on the order of 1600W
(without actually doing the math) offering you an apparent
overage of 300W.

This is why we all like to believe :-)

Now here is the problem.  The best best best use of the heat
that can be achieved is only 50% (there are physical and
mathematical reasons for this)

Now lets re-do the experiment with this knowledge.
1000W extraction at 70% efficiency the consumption will be
1300W and the output will be 2300W  (ain't that cheerful)

Now if 2300W can be converted into usable energy at 50% so you
can actually use 1150W  leavin yall about 150W in the ditch.
(SHUCKS!)

But here is something the experiment does not consider.  You
are forgetting about a 1000W heat hole (gradient) that you left
behind.  From which you should be able to extract an additional
500W  (a little pipe dream) offering you an overage of 350W

Now if at some point one of us could actually achieve that 50%
we can get started.  My stuff is peaking out at about 30 wich
leaves this expariment back in the accounting ditch.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

At 10:54 AM 3/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Charles,
>
>Some of your message # 401 below has caused me to rethink my
>figures.  What started me off was that 50% thing of yours while mine was
>about 47%.

It defiantly is a brain teaser...


Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AMBIENTENERGY
group.

   File        : /jpg  Approx. temps..jpg
   Uploaded by : ironing97330 <bmc@...>
   Description : Approximate temperatures in refrigerator

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMBIENTENERGY/files/jpg%20%20Approx.%20temps..jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

ironing97330 <bmc@...>

--- Boyd & Margie Cantrell <bmc@...> wrote:
> I know that it might be difficult to believe, but there are
> some people who in their efforts to prove you wrong about
> something, will tell you that even though the little drinking
> bird operates on heat energy, it is not a Heat engine.  I
> recently was told this by a person who claims to have been
> educated at MIT.
>

Yes I will spend the half million and send my son to MIT so he
can learn to flash credentials rather then admitting that he is
not familiar because he spent his time screwing off with his
frat mates.

> There is already a write-up in the files about the little
> bird by the physics dept. at Carnegie Mellon University who
> describe it as a Heat engine.

I suppose he was trying to tell you that an ambient heat engine
was impossible based on the parts of his education he missed
because he was sleeping off a drunk.

  Although I might disagree with you on some things I will never
shove my degree down your throat.  The use of credentials to
prove a point ultimately only proves that the holder of said
sheepskin is unable to prove that point any other way.
Logically he is therefore incompetent.  The habitual and
continued use of this scholastic preamble serves only to
embarrass his educators.

My typical response is usually short and pointed.

Example:    "All that schooling and you still don't get it."


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

http://focus.aps.org/v5/st18.html

When you heat soup on the stove, you don't expect it to get hotter than the
burner because heat normally flows from hot regions to cold ones. But now,
in the 1 May PRL, a team using an experiment on the Russian space station
MIR has shown otherwise: For a fluid consisting of liquid and gas phases on
the verge of a transition, the gas temperature can exceed that of its
surrounding heat source, a condition known as local overheating. This
counterintuitive effect was predicted theoretically a decade ago and
demonstrates the complex nature of heat transfer in fluids.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.342 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002

Better check your account settings
Yahoo "accidentally" set all my choices to yes.
Would have been buried in advertising.
Kirk
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.342 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002

At 06:52 PM 3/29/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Better check your account settings
>Yahoo "accidentally" set all my choices to yes.
>Would have been buried in advertising.
>Kirk
>---

Yes they are also going to start charging for POP service.  I am
considering dropping the service al together.


Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

I was trying to find a good place to find place to apply for a credit
cards and this is the best on on the net. It's got several diffrent
cards to choose from depending on your credit. Even if you have no
credit or bad credit they can get you a card.

  The URL is http://apply4creditcard.com

CSR:

This member joined Ambientenergy only moments before sending
this spam to our group Please make him stop.

Thank you


--- yoeaira <yoeaira@...> wrote:
> To: AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com
> From: "yoeaira" <yoeaira@...>
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:33:34 -0000
> Subject: [AMBIENTENERGY] See this site...
> Reply-to: AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com
>
> I was trying to find a good place to find place to apply for
> a credit
> cards and this is the best on on the net. It's got several
> diffrent
> cards to choose from depending on your credit. Even if you
> have no
> credit or bad credit they can get you a card.
>
>  The URL is http://apply4creditcard.com
>
>


=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

And now you know :-)

Compared to a POP message it's like forever...


At 05:18 AM 4/20/02 +0000, you wrote:



>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>AMBIENTENERGY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello people!

  The reason I ask how long it took for a message to post is I posted a
few paragraphs on the lack of original thought on the Minto Wheel,
that has yet to post for some reason...

--- bob_harris_2 <bob_harris_2@...> wrote:
>     Hello people!
>
>  The reason I ask how long it took for a message to post is I
> posted a
> few paragraphs on the lack of original thought on the Minto
> Wheel,
> that has yet to post for some reason...
>
>
Got ya..

OK Bob...   Sometimes they get lost.  (new bug)

If it hasn't posted in about 6 hours it is probably best to
repost.  Most all of the posts will pass in about 30 min but
sometimes it takes several hours.  And here is the part I love.
  Although subscription is almost instant it can take up to two
days to clear when you un-subscribe.  Also changing your
address may result in a couple of days of double posts and / or
double receives.   So if you change your address and post a
message you may receive 4 copies...

There are some bugs  :-)



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

Thank you for clearing this up for me Charles... I didn't know if I
was being blocked from my messages or what... but it was a few
thoughts to help provoke new orginial thought on the minto wheel... I
will try and put these thoughts together again and re-post them.

                              Bob


> Got ya..
>
> OK Bob...   Sometimes they get lost.  (new bug)
>
> If it hasn't posted in about 6 hours it is probably best to
> repost.  Most all of the posts will pass in about 30 min but
> sometimes it takes several hours.  And here is the part I love.
>  Although subscription is almost instant it can take up to two
> days to clear when you un-subscribe.  Also changing your
> address may result in a couple of days of double posts and / or
> double receives.   So if you change your address and post a
> message you may receive 4 copies...
>
> There are some bugs  :-)
>
>
>
> =====
> Charles Ford
> KC5-OWZ
> cjford1@y...
> cjford1@s...
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/

Isn't there a copy in your sent items folder?

Kirk




-----Original Message-----
From: bob_harris_2 [mailto:bob_harris_2@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:18 AM
To: AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AMBIENTENERGY] Re: the reason I asked?!?


    Thank you for clearing this up for me Charles... I didn't know if I
was being blocked from my messages or what... but it was a few
thoughts to help provoke new orginial thought on the minto wheel... I
will try and put these thoughts together again and re-post them.

                              Bob


> Got ya..
>
> OK Bob...   Sometimes they get lost.  (new bug)
>
> If it hasn't posted in about 6 hours it is probably best to
> repost.  Most all of the posts will pass in about 30 min but
> sometimes it takes several hours.  And here is the part I love.
>  Although subscription is almost instant it can take up to two
> days to clear when you un-subscribe.  Also changing your
> address may result in a couple of days of double posts and / or
> double receives.   So if you change your address and post a
> message you may receive 4 copies...
>
> There are some bugs  :-)
>
>
>
> =====
> Charles Ford
> KC5-OWZ
> cjford1@y...
> cjford1@s...
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
AMBIENTENERGY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002

new to me
  http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/halbach.html
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002

Kirk:

This type of array is actually relatively common.  Its most
common uses are disk drive and VCR capstan rotors.  Also this
method is used for those credit card fridge magnets and
magnetic car door signs.

The pattern is usually shock encoded into a rubber magnet but I
have a blower motor that has it actually assembled from
separate ceramic magnets.



--- kirk <kirk@...> wrote:
>
>  new to me
>  http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/halbach.html
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date:
> 4/17/2002
>

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=Halbach
Array.url



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

The fridge magnets and door signs are not Halbach. They just alternate.

Kirk

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Ford [mailto:cjford1@...]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:55 AM
To: AMBIENTENERGY@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AMBIENTENERGY] Halbach Array


Kirk:

This type of array is actually relatively common.  Its most
common uses are disk drive and VCR capstan rotors.  Also this
method is used for those credit card fridge magnets and
magnetic car door signs.

The pattern is usually shock encoded into a rubber magnet but I
have a blower motor that has it actually assembled from
separate ceramic magnets.



--- kirk <kirk@...> wrote:
>
>  new to me
>  http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/halbach.html
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date:
> 4/17/2002
>

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=Halbach
Array.url



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
AMBIENTENERGY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002

--- Boyd & Margie Cantrell <bmc@...> wrote:
> Charles,
>
> At first I thought you ment a furnace blower motor, but later
> decided
> that you ment one of those Blowers that you use to blow
> leaves around.
>
> Does it have a full wave bridge rectifier in the handle? or
> somewhere in
> the circuit?
>
>
> Boyd
>
Commutating field motors will run on AC or DC.  This one is the
air jet blower from a hot tub.  You will find the same motor
assembly in many canister vacuum cleaners.  If the inlet is
unrestricted they will provide a back pressure of about 20psi
and a huge volume of air.



=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

--- Boyd & Margie Cantrell <bmc@...> wrote:
> Charles,
>
> The pole pieces of the field are perminant magnets and
> the armature operates on AC?  I'm familiar with the
> universal motors that run on AC or DC, but the ones I
> know have wire wound fields which are connected in
> series with the armature.
>
Yes the field would in series with the armature.

=====
Charles Ford
KC5-OWZ
cjford1@...
cjford1@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com