Re: [AWECS] The Power of Rope must be Double, for Power Generation?
The good news is no one need needs Magen's incredibly expensive and poor performing AWECS. We know savoniusLTA is the least efficient and most expensive of any "leading" scheme. Its been proven on paper and in the pathetic demos where the Magenn device fizzles on camera. I think Harry maybe used it just as strawman, as it is trivial to use a real HAWT for rope power loops such as
he describes. An simple obvious enabling method is to use Corner Blocks, pulleys that are set to turn rope power around bends. KiteLab'sKiteMotorHAWTs use corner blocks. Similarly, if we need LTA lift, there is no need to use a terrible sideways-barrel shape, as profile/form drag is critical. A conventional aerostat is far better, and its COTS, with many vendors. Harry need not to open himself to (Doug's) opportunistic critique of peripheral detail.
Doug should realise that the question of ropepower, which easily pulls loaded supertankers, is for him the core challenge to show his rigid driveshaft is even marginally workable. Once again Doug pretends he did not hear the shaft questions. Like MagenLTA, the SuperTurbinedriveshaft is marginal AWE technology. It has no potential to do the job rope does; to transfer force over long distance at minimal weight and cost. Doug is right that there are definite limits to rope (and all engineering structure), but the good news is that these extreme limits allow for great performance; nothing else we know of can tap high altitude wind so convincingly, either in practice or in
calculations.
Reeling is another AWE straw man, just a brief historical phase. While reels are simple and hold the land-based AWE peak-power record, the best informed researchers know that it is wholly unnecessary and was just a method in early AWE to quickly show powerful results. KiteLab has publicly demoed numerous prototypes pumping the line to levers/cranks in short strokes, without reeling.
Besides excessive mass, vulnerability, and high capital cost, a major defect of a driveshaft v. kiteline is that the thick cross-section of the driveshaft angled down into the wind develops large downforce. I pray Doug will soon see that phased collective-pitch multiturbines on a line is the only way an AWECS resembling his SuperTurbine AWE vision can triumph in upper-wind. These Turbine Trains can even be dense arrayed under a Control Mesh of lifter-kites. He should be seeking to partner with the teams entering that design space.
Welcome Yasunobu Toneaki Power Generator Yasunobu Toneaki of Shiga, Japan Application number: 12/936,264 Publication number: US 2011/0025060 A1 Filing date:...
On application for patent is note: Prior app: April 5, 2008 in Japan 2008-098819 Also, the following notes have not been researched, but might be importnat: ...
Joe,  As hoped, great Japanese AWE emerged after invoking Mothra. Here is an interesting case of Heidegger's investigation of techne as "revealing along a...
Dear Dave S.: This one looks nice for its simplicity. I always thought the Japanese made such fantastic monster-movies! Usually they had a little kid as the...
Rowing machines and other gym equipment use reels to generate power. The power is usually thrown away but that is not the fault of the reels. I have found a...
Doug,  There are many successful high-powered reeling models to study.  The top example is mining, with megascale cableways, giant drag-bucket excavators,...
Reeling anecdote: In the early 30s, a guy took advantage of the low prices of scrap iron and skilled labor, and started competing with the big, capital ...
The original tri-tether drawing in this thread, suggests crosswind reeling between two downwind tethers. The well founded anti torsion arguments imply that the...
Points well taken. Now let's see if it's possible to actually answer the simple question I asked: I'll try again, and please focus on each word: Is there any...
Doug, Â Another great working rope precedent for you to study is cable car systems such as San Francisco's, with some runs of a few miles. Like Bob's...
OK I knew it would be difficult to stay focused on the exact question. I knew that the ADHD mentality here would be unable to address, let alone answer, such a...
Doug,  You missed the cool cable-power examples cited in Low Tech Magazine that Bob linked. Ropeways have been long used to generate power continuously, not...
Hi Dave & Doug, Here's a what if. A long rope wound around windlass mechanisms at either end can transmit power between two very distant points . . . ....
OK Harry, take your example of Magenn. Now let's say the machine is just barely able to lift its own weight. Also realize it turns slowly so any power will...
Did you get a chance to look at the drawing I posted yesterday Doug. Spinning kites pulling a skilift style line across the wind. Nothing really flying....
The good news is no one need needs Magen's incredibly expensive and poor performing AWECS. We know savonius LTA is the least efficient and most expensive...
There he is again, "the Nostradamus of AWE". Sweeping pronouncements. Ultimate authority. Unlimited veto power. The final authority on all questions. (!) OK...
Doug, Â Your questions have been covered before, but review hones the logic and catches details. Â The reason Magenn is called a "leader"Â (only in quote...
OK Dave S., can you give me the formula for how much a non-buoyant wind energy system can weigh versus its swept area and how much that further reduces the...
Given that a kite can't stay up without some tension on the tether, I don't see any problem with having that tension be on a moving pulley system. The return...
Bob,  Doug seemed tome to be asking for examples of power transmitted by cables, which were given. I missed his was really a demand for equations of...
Thanks Bob for a concrete answer, to back up Dave S.' assertion that there's no fundamental math that has been ignored in the talk-talk-talk field of wannabe...
OK Thanks for that interesting article on ropeways Bob. It goes on for about 30 pages without mentioning the ropeways I'll be spending much of my winter...
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