thank you so much jane.  this should be a pretty good start.  definitely will let you know if i need to know more.  can i ask a question if u don'tmind.  how do u know so much? 

mallaika

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Through the long ages of ancient Egypt their beliefs
did change, were added to and some were relegated to
'minor' status. Each part of the land of Kem [Egypt]
had their own seperate and different beliefs and
traditions originally.
The Delta area of Lower Egypt had an enigmatic 'god'
named Andjeti,[origins unknown], and the serpent
goddess, Wadjet. At some time in the very early
prehistoric period these became overridden by the
sunworshipping peoples, [thought to have migrated from
the Black Sea area some time in the Neolithic Period,
and now some believe it may have been due to the
flooding of the Black Sea into the Med.?], and the
'Cult of Re', which located their main temples at a
city named ON.[later renamed 'Heliopolis'(city of the
Sun) by the Greeks], but was still retained by both
Upper as well as lower Egypt, mainly because of a very
early 'unification' by an Upper Egyptian power
structure of Nekhen [much later named Hierakonpolis by
the Greeks]. 'Andjeti' became Osiris [being taken over
by the Upper Egyptian 'Osirian Cult/tradition], and
Wadjet joined the Upper Egyptian vulture goddess,
Nekhbet. These two goddesses are displayed on the
'crown of the Two Lands', the vulture and the serpent
[or cobra]. Both Andjeti and Osiris were originally
fertility gods. The royal insignias of power, the
crook and flail were also indicitive of Andjeti [and
later, Osiris]. Later, Osiris became the 'god of the
dead' or the god who controlled the 'land of the
dead'. There were many changes in where this was
located. The Osirian cult believed it to be part of
the star system of Orion which were known as the
'imperishable ones' [the stars which did not 'die'],
the stars that did not disappear seasonally. The Cult
of Re believed that the dead went to the land of Re
[the sky/sun]. Later, the belief changed to one which
included an underground 'maze' which required many
'magic' spells which the deceased had to have to make
his/her way through with the help of many different
gods and goddesses. Anubis was the god of embalming
and guardian of the tomb. [this could have come about
with the advent of the jackel being a predatory animal
and digging up the dead or the underground pit/tombs
of early Egypt?].
As time went by none of these traditions were ever
actually discarded, but additions were made through
the ages. By the time of the Greek conquest, [or
liberation from Assyria], the AE religion had become
diluted with many different beliefs. These were
'Hellenized' into what we read through Solon,
Herodotus, etc.
Main gods were usually brought to power with each new
king who may have begun a 'dynasty', or even with some
kings inside a dynasty. These gods were usually the
main gods and goddesses of wherever the king
originated. There were peiods in which Thinite and
Kushite beliefs were added, early in AE history, and a
much later Nubian conquest in the Late Period. This is
one of the ways in which so many gods and goddesses
became 'traditional' in the ancient Egyptian pantheon.
Hope this helps some. Just give me a 'headsup' if you
need more.........Jane R. [isis]
--- Sapna Patel <shinin00@...> wrote:
>
>  my research paper is on the ancient egyptian views
> of death and afterlife.  anything that i can relate
> to their practices, their beliefs, how the gods
> related to what they practiced and believed, and
> maybe how their daily life affected their views and
> values.  any help you can give me would be great.
> thank you so much.
> mallaika
>   Jane Richards <isis1037@...> wrote: What
> type of information do you require? Just give me
> an idea and I will be glad to help out, if possible.
> Jane Richards [isis]
> isis1037@...
> --- shinin00 <shinin00@...> wrote:
> > hey guys,
> >
> >   i'm doing a research paper on Egyptian views of
> > death and afterlife
> > and was wondering if anyone can pass along any
> info
> > i would greatly
> > appreciate it.  thanks
> >
> >
> > mallaika
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> isis@...
> Website:
> http://www.isis@alphasector.com/isis [out of
> commission, temp.]
>
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=====
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 my research paper is on the ancient egyptian views of death and afterlife.  anything that i can relate to their practices, their beliefs, how the gods related to what they practiced and believed, and maybe how their daily life affected their views and values.  any help you can give me would be great.   thank you so much.

mallaika

  Jane Richards <isis1037@...> wrote:

What type of information do you require? Just give me
an idea and I will be glad to help out, if possible.
Jane Richards [isis]
isis1037@...
--- shinin00 <shinin00@...> wrote:
> hey guys,
>
>   i'm doing a research paper on Egyptian views of
> death and afterlife
> and was wondering if anyone can pass along any info
> i would greatly
> appreciate it.  thanks
>
>
> mallaika
>
>


=====
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Dear members

I recently posted a message about a new Ancient Egyptian society with
magazine etc.  This society is now up and running. PLease email me
for details.

The membership and magazine includes:

Membership card
Competitions
Articles on up to date news about egypt
Reviews
and much more!!!

Please email: ancient_egyptuk@...
                        or
               nefertari_2001@...

What type of information do you require? Just give me
an idea and I will be glad to help out, if possible.
Jane Richards [isis]
isis1037@...
--- shinin00 <shinin00@...> wrote:
> hey guys,
>
>   i'm doing a research paper on Egyptian views of
> death and afterlife
> and was wondering if anyone can pass along any info
> i would greatly
> appreciate it.  thanks
>
>
> mallaika
>
>


=====
isis@...
Website:
http://www.isis@alphasector.com/isis [out of commission, temp.]

__________________________________________________
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hey guys,

   i'm doing a research paper on Egyptian views of death and afterlife
and was wondering if anyone can pass along any info i would greatly
appreciate it.  thanks


mallaika

It is a shame there is no mention of any glyphs, tomb
art, or names associated with the 'female figure' in
this tomb complex. IF this large tomb was made for
her, then she must have been quite esteemed at the
time. Wonder if it could have been Neithotep?? There
is also mention of another Late Predynastic/ Early OK
female who acted as regent for quite some time for her
male son, as did Neithotep.
Jane R. [isis]
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
>
> A Japanese team of archaeologists have
> unearthed a huge structure at Sakkara/Saqqara
> revealing one of the oldest examples of
> architectural style of the early dynasties
> (3000-2700 BC).
>
> Details can be found at
> http://www.uk.sis.gov.eg/online/html7/o190922b.htm
>
>


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A Japanese team of archaeologists have
unearthed a huge structure at Sakkara/Saqqara
revealing one of the oldest examples of
architectural style of the early dynasties
(3000-2700 BC).

Details can be found at
http://www.uk.sis.gov.eg/online/html7/o190922b.htm

Why were the early egyptians obsessed with the idea
of building perfect pyramids ? Other cultures built
pyramids, too, but the egyptian struggle for perfection
is unique. Except the pyramids in Teotihuacan, no other
culture tried to built such giant, perfect pyramids.

In the book "Temples of Ancient Egypt" (edited by Byron
Shafer, Cornell University Press, 1997), Dieter Arnold
writes on page 47 :
". . . it becomes clear that the pyramid was not just a
tomb, but that it had evolved into the site of a mystery
that allowed the dead king to unite with the ba of the
sun god."

The sun was the personification of the sun god Re. It
was the origin of the lightbeams that are reflected
and embodied by the form of the pyramid. The top of a
pyramid represented the light source and the star/sun,
whereas the edges of the pyramid symbolized the light
rays emerging from it.

Utterance 508 of the pyramid text confirms this intention
and interpretation:
"I have laid down for myself this sunshine of yours as
a stairway under my feet on which I will ascend [..], O Re"
( http://touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidtext.htm )

In ancient egypt, people thought that the soul consisted
of three parts : the Ba, the Ka and the Akh. The Ba,
represented usually by a human-headed bird, was the spirit
of a person, that left the body at death. It was believed,
that the Ba could re-enter the body or similar looking
things, e.g. statues that resembled the body.

The unification of Ba and Image was described with
"to embrace" and it was the process, that allowed the
gods to "live" in their statues, just as the Ba (Soul)
lived in the human body. The core of an egyptian temple
-the sanctuary of the god or the innermost chamber- was
a shrine with a small statue or figure. This statue was
not an image of the body of the god, it *was* the body
of the god, the place where he was able to materialize
himself.

The pyramid was the body or image of a sun. This fact
enabled the Ba of the sun god Re to live in it. So the
Ba of the deceased pharaoh was able to unite with the
the Ba of the sun god, or was able to become like it -
so that the Pharaoh became completely a son of Re.

Utterance 486 of the pyramid texts says :
"Re will take Pepi by the hand, to where a god may be."

The cross-section of the pyramid at the base resembles
the hieroglyph for a house, the cross-section at the
top resembles the hieroglyph for a star. Already during the
building of the pyramid, the pharaoh - which means
"great house" - became symbolically and gradually a star,
a shining light.

"Akh", the third and final part of the soul, can be
translated as shining light. Khufu called his pyramid
Akh-et, which means "horizon" or "the place of becoming
a shining light".

The purpose of the pyramid was to transform the king
to a shining star and enable him to enter the realm
of the stars. Just as light rays connect the sun and the
earth, the pyramid is a connection between heaven and
earth. As an ancient skyscraper, it touched the sky,
and allowed the Pharaoh to ascend to the sky.

The pyramids were an insurrection against the inevitable
end of life. The kings of the old kingdom wanted to become
stars because they thought that stars were eternal -
today we know that even stars have a finite lifetime,
they can be eaten by black holes or explode in super
novas.

But for the Pharaos of the old kingdom, the stars were
the place to find eternity. The kings of ancient egypt
spared no expense to ascent to the sky and to break
through the wall of death. The pyramids and the other
historical monuments of egypt are witnesses of this
desperate struggle for eternity, and they still impress
us today.

To me, the most exciting things about ancient Egypt
are the discoveries being made. The true, hard,
archaeological discoveries which are showing older and
older dates of an Egyptian civilization in both Upper
as well as Lower Egypt. Seperate, but 'civilizations',
none the less. No 'mysteries' of bombs, aliens, or
other things, [their religious traditions did have
their own 'mysteries'], although not connected too
closely with the Hermetics of later times. [these were
the Greeks own 'variety' of the AE traditions].
Jane R.
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, probably you are right. It does not sound
> exciting, but often a theory is the more dubious,
> the
> more unusual and exciting it is.
>
> Like the theory about the Egypt-Atlantean Bomb,
> my favorite one :-)
> The real reason to build the great pyramid
> is to hide the Egypto-Atlantean Atomic Bomb.
> Look at
> http://www.khufu.org/EgyptoAtlanteanBomb.html
> for more details about this scientific theory based
> on real facts.
>
> More wired theories can be found at
>
http://www.mysteries-megasite.com/main/bigsearch/pyramid-1.html
>
> One states, that the pyramids are in fact
> close to 35,000 years old. And the stones were
> lifted with sonic (?) sound waves.
>
> It is a bit funny, everyone says : there are
> so many "idiots" and "pyramidiots", but I will
> tell you the truth about it. And then they
> repeat a lot of well known facts, and end
> with : ..and the truth is, there is a secret
> city under the Gizeh Plateau..
>
> But only a few theories are really weird and crazy,
> most of them are 80% well known things mixed with
> 15%
> speculations and 5% galopping fantasy.
>
>
>
>


=====
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Yes, probably you are right. It does not sound
exciting, but often a theory is the more dubious, the
more unusual and exciting it is.

Like the theory about the Egypt-Atlantean Bomb,
my favorite one :-)
The real reason to build the great pyramid
is to hide the Egypto-Atlantean Atomic Bomb.
Look at http://www.khufu.org/EgyptoAtlanteanBomb.html
for more details about this scientific theory based
on real facts.

More wired theories can be found at
http://www.mysteries-megasite.com/main/bigsearch/pyramid-1.html

One states, that the pyramids are in fact
close to 35,000 years old. And the stones were
lifted with sonic (?) sound waves.

It is a bit funny, everyone says : there are
so many "idiots" and "pyramidiots", but I will
tell you the truth about it. And then they
repeat a lot of well known facts, and end
with : ..and the truth is, there is a secret
city under the Gizeh Plateau..

But only a few theories are really weird and crazy,
most of them are 80% well known things mixed with 15%
speculations and 5% galopping fantasy.

Although this is a 'plausible theory' on Mr. Lehners'
part, there are others. The tomb of the 'Real Scorpion
King' was discovered in the Abydos area, also, by
Prof. Dryer. It was designed in 3 stories and built to
resemble the houses in which the king resided, looking
much like the 'mastaba' [which is the much later
Islamic name for the tombs discovered = 'bench or
seat']. This tomb was built partially underground, but
also originally covered with a great mound,
representing the 'sacred mound' or 'primeval mound' in
AE religious tradition. Many other homes designed in
this way have been found in the site of Nekhen. These
were homes for the living. This would suggest, to
many, that the 'mastaba' theory is a quite old 'idea'
of the early archaeological community which may not be
entirely correct. The architecture of the 'mastaba'
may have been a carry-over from the attempt by the AE
to bury their royal dead in a tomb which resembled the
houses in which they lived while alive. The additions
of mortuary temples and large compounds connected to
these would have been 'newer', as the first tombs were
constructed in the late Pre-dynastic and Early
Dynastic, while the later, above ground 'mastaba'
tombs were built in the Old Kingdom........Jane R.
[Note: It was thought until several years ago that all
Pre-Dynastic and Early Dynastic tombs had no writings
included in them. We now know, [from the discovery of
Khasekhemwys' tomb], that hieroglypics were included
in at least some of these early tombs, along with wall
art and hieroglyphic tomb text. It is also theorized
by some that many of these early kings had at least 2
tombs constructed. One was usually in the vicinity of
the most sacred city of their time, Abydos,in Upper
Egypt, while the other may have been closer to the
area in which their main city form which they ruled
was located.[usually in Lower Egypt at that
time]......J
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
>
> It is known that the last pharao of the
> 2nd dynasty, Khasekhemwy (which means
> The Two Powerful Ones Appear"), predecessor
> of Djoser, had two mortuary complexes
> in Abydos. (see for instance the book
> of Mark Lehner : The Complete Pyramids).
> One official tomb/grave in form of a palace
> and, about 1 km apart, a "royal enclosure"
> (maybe simply a kind of sport field for
> the Sed-Festival ?)
>
> Djoser decided to combine this
> two elements, tomb and royal enclosure.
> But because of the enclosure, the mastaba
> on the grave was not visible from the
> outside, and he -or his architect Imhotep-
> built several small mastabas on top of
> the first to solve this problem. So the
> first pyramid, the famous Step-Pyramid
> of Djoser was created.
>
> This plausible theory, why the first pyramid
> was built, can be found in the "Egypt"
> book from Davies and Friedman
> (1998, Britisch Museum Press)
> or at the web site
> http://www.sis.gov.eg/pyramid/html/stp00.htm ,
> ( here this theory is attributed to
> Dr. Dreyer )
>
> Other Web-Sites where you can visit the
> Step-Pyramid of Djoser are :
>
>
http://members.xoom.it/francescoraf/hesyra/dyn3-Djoser.htm
>
> * Web-Site with photos from the Step pyramid,
> including photos from the inside and underground
> passages
>
>
http://www.egyptvoyager.com/pyramids_early_pyramids_saqqara_djoser_vir
> tual.htm
> * Nice 3D-Virtual Tour to the Step pyramid and
> "clickable" 3D-Illustration
>
>
>


=====
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It is known that the last pharao of the
2nd dynasty, Khasekhemwy (which means
The Two Powerful Ones Appear"), predecessor
of Djoser, had two mortuary complexes
in Abydos. (see for instance the book
of Mark Lehner : The Complete Pyramids).
One official tomb/grave in form of a palace
and, about 1 km apart, a "royal enclosure"
(maybe simply a kind of sport field for
the Sed-Festival ?)

Djoser decided to combine this
two elements, tomb and royal enclosure.
But because of the enclosure, the mastaba
on the grave was not visible from the
outside, and he -or his architect Imhotep-
built several small mastabas on top of
the first to solve this problem. So the
first pyramid, the famous Step-Pyramid
of Djoser was created.

This plausible theory, why the first pyramid
was built, can be found in the "Egypt"
book from Davies and Friedman
(1998, Britisch Museum Press)
or at the web site
http://www.sis.gov.eg/pyramid/html/stp00.htm ,
( here this theory is attributed to
Dr. Dreyer )

Other Web-Sites where you can visit the
Step-Pyramid of Djoser are :

http://members.xoom.it/francescoraf/hesyra/dyn3-Djoser.htm
* Web-Site with photos from the Step pyramid,
including photos from the inside and underground
passages

http://www.egyptvoyager.com/pyramids_early_pyramids_saqqara_djoser_vir
tual.htm
* Nice 3D-Virtual Tour to the Step pyramid and
"clickable" 3D-Illustration

Hi

I'm about to lauch a new Ancient Egyptian History Club and Magazine,
if your interested in joining please visit the website,

www.geocities.com/ancient_egyptuk

or email me for details

ancient_egyptuk@...

Thanks

nefertari_2001

According to recent news, Dr. Zahi Hawass has explored the north
shaft of the queen's chamber today, too, and discovered a stone with
two copper grips or handles, exactly like the stone in the south
shaft. This distance between stone and chamber is 65 meters, too.

He has examined the south shaft in the live broadcast of the National
Geographic Channel last week on the 17th September.

Dr. Renee Friedman is in charge of the on-going
excavations at Nekhen [later Greek Hierakonpolis].
They have their own website which is quite
interesting. You can locate it on-line by searching
for 'Friends of Nekhen', I believe. If you like I can
highlight some of the information. Dr. Friedman is the
honorary President for the 'Njes' group [New Jersey
Egyptology Society] which also has a 'members only'
online website and also an open website called
'OPEN-EGYPTOLOGY'.
The area of Nekhen, Abydos and Neqada [west side of
Nile] as well as the site of Nekbet on the East side
are all giving up much important information about the
very earliest signs of ancient Egyptian civilization.
It was from these areas that the Upper Egyptian power
structure was formed, [including the 'Real Scorpion
King']. Let me know if you find their website....
Jane R. [isis]
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
> --- In Ancient_Egypt_Group@y..., Jane Richards
> <isis1037@y...> wrote:
> > Renee Friedman, at Nekhen, has discovered the
> early
> > mummification process, also. Female remains were
> found
> > with linen wrappings, each finger wrapped
> > seperately.Also discovered were the use of hair
> > extensions and henna dye on the hair of these
> remains.
> > This has been dated at aprox. 3,600/3,200 BCE.
>
> I didn't know that. What do you think,
> was the process of mummification at the
> time of Khufu so refined and artful,
> that an untouched mummy would be still
> in a good state today ? Or is the sceleton
> of Ny-Nsw-Wesert typical for the mortal
> remains of a person from the old kingdom ?
>
> Can you tell us a bit more about the
> excavations at Nekhen ?
>
>
>


=====
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--- In Ancient_Egypt_Group@y..., Jane Richards <isis1037@y...> wrote:
> Renee Friedman, at Nekhen, has discovered the early
> mummification process, also. Female remains were found
> with linen wrappings, each finger wrapped
> seperately.Also discovered were the use of hair
> extensions and henna dye on the hair of these remains.
> This has been dated at aprox. 3,600/3,200 BCE.

I didn't know that. What do you think,
was the process of mummification at the
time of Khufu so refined and artful,
that an untouched mummy would be still
in a good state today ? Or is the sceleton
of Ny-Nsw-Wesert typical for the mortal
remains of a person from the old kingdom ?

Can you tell us a bit more about the
excavations at Nekhen ?

Renee Friedman, at Nekhen, has discovered the early
mummification process, also. Female remains were found
with linen wrappings, each finger wrapped
seperately.Also discovered were the use of hair
extensions and henna dye on the hair of these remains.
This has been dated at aprox. 3,600/3,200 BCE.
Jane R.
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
>
> I think the sarcophagus of Ny-Nsw-Wesert
> confirms the current opinion of egyptologists
> that the process of mummification was in a
> stage of development in the old kingdom.
>
> By the way, now that we know that there
> are no treasures or golden masks inside
> - and no one really expected that - maybe
> we should just let him rest in peace.
>
> If the pyramid of Khufu would remained
> untouched like the tomb of tutankhamun til
> today, the contents of Khufu's sarcophagus
> would probably look similar to the one of Ny-
> Nsw-Wesert.
>
> I believe, if the great pyramid had not been
> robbed in the past it would be less fascinating
> than in the present, empty state. If we could
> visit it in its original, untouched state, I
> guess we would regard it as primitve and
> disappointing.
>
> The craftsman at 2500 BC were simply not so
> skilled as their descendants 1500 BC that
> created the treasures of tutankhamun. And the
> people were probably not that rich, everything
> went into building the pyramid.
>
> What can we conclude from the rover findings ?
> The rover did find a small chamber, but it
> was empty and sealed by another stone, this
> time a real limestone block. It looks like the
> shaft was sealed from the outside, to prevent
> that something could come in.
>
> I think this supports the theory, that the
> underground chamber and the queen's
> chamber originally were planned to be the
> king's chamber, and that they had been given
> up.
>
> Maybe the sarcophagus didn't fit in, or the
> underground was too hard, or the chambers
> were too small to take up all the necessary
> things, or there were not protected enough.
>
> As the middle chamber was given up about the
> time the upper chamber was completed, the
> shafts to it were sealed from the outside.
> This is reasonable and plausible, because
> the height where the shaft ends corresponds
> to the top of the king's chamber.
>
> So maybe the finding were not sensational,
> but they certainly bring us new insights
> into the history of ancient egypt.
>
>
>


=====
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Concerning the dating of some of the brickworks and
the graffitti of 'work gangs'. This could also have
been part of the 'repair work' which had been done
thoughout antiquity......Jane R.
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
> --- In Ancient_Egypt_Group@y..., Jane Richards
> <isis1037@y...> wrote:
> > Your 'flow' article would show
> > the outcome of building not only the pyramids, but
> all
> > of the temples, etc. in any given country [other
> than
> > those that used slavery].
>
> You are right. Interesting. The 'flow argument' can
> be
> applied in the case of building a large church,
> temple
> or cathedral, and for creating tombs in the new
> kingdom
> as well.
>
> > there are no dates concerning the construction,
> and no hard
> > evidence who built it, or who [if anyone], was
> buried
> > in it. Actually, other than theory, there is no
> record
> > of when it was built, who built it, or for what is
> was
> > intended to be used.
>
> I think we have some indications and hints
> concerning
> the dates. If I remember this correctly, there are
> some stones or bricks with dates on it, and it took
> about 20 or 30 years to built a pyramid. In a
> graffiti
> in the great pyramid, one working team is named "The
>
> friends of Khufu". So the worker were certainly not
> slaves.
>
> In the National Geographic broadcast from this week
> (the robot exploration of the Great Pyramid) was
> a report about the village of the pyramid builders.
> Dr. Zahi Hawass opened the sarcophagus of
> Ny-Nsw-Wesert,
> the overseer of the pyramid workers on this night.
>
>
>
>
>


=====
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Website:
http://www.isis@alphasector.com/isis [out of commission, temp.]

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I think the sarcophagus of Ny-Nsw-Wesert
confirms the current opinion of egyptologists
that the process of mummification was in a
stage of development in the old kingdom.

By the way, now that we know that there
are no treasures or golden masks inside
- and no one really expected that - maybe
we should just let him rest in peace.

If the pyramid of Khufu would remained
untouched like the tomb of tutankhamun til
today, the contents of Khufu's sarcophagus
would probably look similar to the one of Ny-
Nsw-Wesert.

I believe, if the great pyramid had not been
robbed in the past it would be less fascinating
than in the present, empty state. If we could
visit it in its original, untouched state, I
guess we would regard it as primitve and
disappointing.

The craftsman at 2500 BC were simply not so
skilled as their descendants 1500 BC that
created the treasures of tutankhamun. And the
people were probably not that rich, everything
went into building the pyramid.

What can we conclude from the rover findings ?
The rover did find a small chamber, but it
was empty and sealed by another stone, this
time a real limestone block. It looks like the
shaft was sealed from the outside, to prevent
that something could come in.

I think this supports the theory, that the
underground chamber and the queen's
chamber originally were planned to be the
king's chamber, and that they had been given
up.

Maybe the sarcophagus didn't fit in, or the
underground was too hard, or the chambers
were too small to take up all the necessary
things, or there were not protected enough.

As the middle chamber was given up about the
time the upper chamber was completed, the
shafts to it were sealed from the outside.
This is reasonable and plausible, because
the height where the shaft ends corresponds
to the top of the king's chamber.

So maybe the finding were not sensational,
but they certainly bring us new insights
into the history of ancient egypt.

--- In Ancient_Egypt_Group@y..., Jane Richards <isis1037@y...> wrote:
> Your 'flow' article would show
> the outcome of building not only the pyramids, but all
> of the temples, etc. in any given country [other than
> those that used slavery].

You are right. Interesting. The 'flow argument' can be
applied in the case of building a large church, temple
or cathedral, and for creating tombs in the new kingdom
as well.

> there are no dates concerning the construction, and no hard
> evidence who built it, or who [if anyone], was buried
> in it. Actually, other than theory, there is no record
> of when it was built, who built it, or for what is was
> intended to be used.

I think we have some indications and hints concerning
the dates. If I remember this correctly, there are
some stones or bricks with dates on it, and it took
about 20 or 30 years to built a pyramid. In a graffiti
in the great pyramid, one working team is named "The
friends of Khufu". So the worker were certainly not
slaves.

In the National Geographic broadcast from this week
(the robot exploration of the Great Pyramid) was
a report about the village of the pyramid builders.
Dr. Zahi Hawass opened the sarcophagus of Ny-Nsw-Wesert,
the overseer of the pyramid workers on this night.

Thankyou, Mr. Fromm, I appreciate the compliment. Your
'flow' article [although modern in origin] would show
the outcome of building not only the pyramids, but all
of the temples, etc. in any given country [other than
those that used slavery]. Very interesting. It is a
shame that most school text books still promote the
idea of 'slaves constructing the GP'. Of course there
are no dates concerning the construction, and no hard
evidence who built it, or who [if anyone], was buried
in it. Actually, other than theory, there is no record
of when it was built, who built it, or for what is was
intended to be used.
Jane R.
--- Jochen Fromm <Jochen.Fromm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Raven (babylonian_temptress ?),
> Kate, Jane !
> Welcome in the new group.
>
> Jane, your articles are always
> fascinating :-)
>
> I hope we can keep the group
> clean of any undesirable
> postings in arabic or other
> unknown languages.
>
>
>
>
>


=====
isis@...
Website:
http://www.isis@alphasector.com/isis [out of commission, temp.]

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Hello Raven (babylonian_temptress ?),
Kate, Jane !
Welcome in the new group.

Jane, your articles are always
fascinating :-)

I hope we can keep the group
clean of any undesirable
postings in arabic or other
unknown languages.

Building a pyramid was a "flow" experience
------------------------------------------

We have no evidence that the pyramids were
built by slaves. So building a pyramid must
have been an enjoyable experience. How is
it possible that stacking up million tons
of stone is enjoyable ?

The reason is -maybe- that building a pyramid
was in fact a "flow" activity (this term is
explained in detail in Mihaly
Csikszentmihalyi's excellent book "Flow").

Flow activities
a) require the learning of new skills
b) set up goals
c) provide clear feedback

Is there a more clear goal than
an unfinished pyramid ? And the height of
the pyramid provides clear feedback about
the work done. And of course it requires the
learning of new skills to build a pyramid.



The "Flow" state in the self and the society
--------------------------------------------

The "Flow" state of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
is a very enjoyable experience, a state of
absorption in an activity, a state of
focused concentration on a certain goal.
People in a "Flow" state feel strong and
in effortless control, unselfconscious,
and at the peak of their abilities.

The term "Flow" can also be applied to a king
that embodies and represents a society, and
to the society itself. In his popular book
"The society of Mind", Marvin Minsky describes
the mind as a society of agents. Using this
picture we can find the following analogy for
the state of "Flow" in he society (a) and the
self (b) :

* absolute absorption in an activity

  (a) no conflicts and no thinking or
      discussing  about the society
  (b) no thinking about the "Self" and
      the problems of the "Self"

* focused concentration on a certain goal

  (a) everyone works towards a
      certain goal
  (b) all agents of the mind or all
      activities are directed to a
      certain goal

* learning new abilities

  (a) each member of the community specializes
      on a certain task, and thus becomes an
      expert in his field
  (b) each new situation is a new task that
      requires a certain ability. In a "flow"
      activity, one's skills are adequate to
      cope with the constantly changing
      challenges at hand, so that you slowly
      become an expert. Each agent of the mind
      becomes an expert for a certain situation.

* feeling strong and in control, increased
   self-confidence

  (a) every member of the community feels strong
      and more self-confident because the
      community which is able to master difficult
      and even giant tasks like building a pyramid
      is strong and powerful.
      The Society is able to cope with difficult
      situations, because it has an expert for
      every possible problem, and can divide large
      tasks by delegating them to different people.
  (b) the "Self" feels strong, because in a flow
      activity the challenges never exceed the
      skills, so that the "Self" is able to cope
      with every new situation


Complexity and the Growth of the Society
----------------------------------------

In Csikszentmihalyi's book, the last paragraph
of chapter 2 reads :
"Following a flow experience, the organization
of the self ( or a society ) is more complex than
it had been before. It is by becoming increasingly
complex that the self might be said to grow.
Complexity is the result of two broad psychological
processes : Differentiation and integration."

Differentiation in a society means : everyone has his
special task, some workers became bakes and butchers,
some became experts in cuttings stones, other in
transporting or shipping them.

Integration on the other hand : All workers are working
together towards one single goal, represented by the
pyramid. Every member of the community feels great,
because he is part of the great and powerful "pyramid"
community, the egyptians.

It was the pyramid that held the people together and
that gave meaning to the life of the ordinary worker.
In this sense, the pyramids built Egypt, as Mark
Lehner said in a National Geographic article about
the Old Kingdom.

Actually these early dynasties are not considered 'Old Kingdom', but
'Early Dynastic'.
During this period of time,and further back in pre-dynastic times,
many kings ruled, from both Upper and Lower Egypt, as the power swayed
back and forth from the ancient sun worshipers in the North, [who
migrated from the Black Sea area in the Late Paleolithic and Early
Neolithic periods], to the Southern peoples of Nekhen, Abydos and
Neqada, who also had a history of settlement there from Paleolithic eras.
Many wars and battles were fought among these two seperate religions
and peoples for centuries. There were 'unifications' several times
during these periods in which the king, [whether from North or South],
would take as his symbols the combinations of Osirian/Horus beliefs
and the sun symbol of Re [RA]. They also would combine the
cobra/serpent goddess of the North, Wadjet, and the vulture goddess of
the South, Nekbet. This was also the period in which the sacred
sceptor of 'WAS', the Flail and the Crook, was incorporated into the
royal houses.
The changes in names can show the changes in dynasties. The most
ancient of the south under the scorpion or Horus. There was also a
time when Nubian control was apparent in these ancient times under the
Thinites.
A 'proto temple' has been discovered in Nekhen, [later Greek
Hierokonpolis], constructed of papyrus reeds and mats. It is dedicated
to the sky god, Horus, and the vulture goddess, Nekbet. There are
remains of 3 giant cedar obelisks which were in front of this temple
or shrine. [cedar was only available in Lebenon]. The shrine, its self
was formed with a 'hump' in the front and is depicted in many of the
tombs found in later dynasties in the wall art. It was also found, in
miniature, mounted on a sledge and covered in gold sheeting in the
tomb of Tutankhamun of the New Kingdom.
Jane R. [isis]

nice group hope more ppl join!!

In the 1st and 2nd dynasty, the king himself
with his man travelled through the country to
rule and to collect taxes, mainly in form of
grain. The grain was stored in magazines and
store-houses, typical elements of tombs in
Abydos.

Like the sun wandered over the sky, the king
wandered over the earth. (Chephren and his
successors called themselves son of Re, the
sun god). The main transport vehicle for the
king was the ship, the royal barge. One of
the barges from Khufu that has been found near
his pyramid is 43 meters long.

As the population grew larger in the 3rd dynasty,
the country was divided in 42 nomes (=regions),
and representatives took the place of the king,
who controlled them from his palace in Memphis.
This was the birth of administration.

The sign for the 4th upper egypt nome contains
the was scepter (the symbol of domin(at)ion and
power) and the ma'at symbol of order and justice :
the main city of this region was called waset - or
in greek Thebes.

As the need to travel decreased, the king had time
to built a larger palace and to stay there.
The name Pharaoh means "great house"
(http://www.egyptologyonline.com/pharaohs.htm) :

   "the term "per-aa" means "great house" and
  developed via the Greek, into the word we now use
  today. "Per-aa" was originally used to describe
  the royal court or the state itself, in the sense
  that the "great house" was the entity responsible
  for the taxation of the lesser houses ("perw"),
  which were the temple lands and private estates.
  From the late 18th Dynasty and onwards, "per-aa"
  had begun to be used to refer to the actual king
  himself."

Having a great palace during his life time, the king
needed a similar home for the afterlife. The first
(step) pyramid complex of Djoser in Saqqara is such
a stone palace for eternity. (Saqqara is said to
be named after the egyptian mortuary deity Sokar).

Beginning with Djoser, the pyramids as central element
of the mortuary complex mirror the first hierarchical
administration. Government was the business of the king
and his representatives, which formed a hierarchical
structure with the king at the top, the representatives
between, and the ordinary people at the bottom.

The building of a pyramid was the national project, and
the only one that was really important. The list
of the great pyramid builders is at the same time
the list of the kings from the old kingdom :


  3rd Dynasty            2650 - 2575 - The first pyramid in saqqara
  Sanakhte (Nebka).......2650 - 2630
  Djoser (Netjerykhet)...2630 - 2611
  Sekhemkhet.............2611 - 2603
  Khaba..................2603 - 2599
  Huni...................2599 - 2575

  4th Dynasty            2575 - 2465 - The age of the Pyramids at
Giza.
  Snofru.................2575 - 2551
  Khufu (Cheops).........2551 - 2528
  Djedefre...............2528 - 2520
  Khafre (Chephren)......2520 - 2494
  Menkaure (Mycerinus)...2490 - 2472
  Shepseskaf.............2472 - 2467

  5th Dynasty            2465 - 2323 - The age of the Pyramids at
Abusir.
  Userkaf................2465 - 2458
  Sahure.................2458 - 2446
  Neferirkare............2446 - 2426
  Raneferef..............2419 - 2416
  Niuserre...............2416 - 2392
  Djedkare Izezi.........2388 - 2356
  Wenis..................2356 - 2323

  6th Dynasty            2323 - 2152 - The return to saqqara
  Teti...................2323 - 2291
  Pepy I.................2289 - 2255
  Merenre................2255 - 2246
  Pepy II................2246 - 2152


The biggest and most famous pyramid is of course
the one from Khufu, which was a nickname for
Khnum-Khuf, meaning "the god Khnum protects me"
or "Khnum is his Protector".

A pyramid complex consists of a valley temple linked
by a causeway to an upper mortuary temple close to
a pyramid. The causeway was used to bring the mummy
of the dead king to the pyramid and later to bring
the offerings to the mortuary temple at the pyramid.

The upper mortuary temple was connected to the pyramid
by a "false door". Through the false door, the dead
king was able to enter the hall where the daily
offerings and sacrifices were laid down.

In the hall was a black granite statue of the king,
that embodied the king during the ceremonies. It offered
the 'ba' (or the ghost) of the king a place to stay
and thus an oppurtunity to take part at the offerings.

The pyramid complex was like a huge temple for the
dead/resurrected god-king after his funeral. Like other
temples it contained a statue of the god and was the
place of daily offerings and rituals.

The 5th dynasty kings built in addition to the pyramid
complexes sun or solar temples, dedicated to the god
Re. They resemble pyramid complexes, and consist of
a valley temple, a causeway and an enclosure with an
obelisk, which takes the place of the pyramid.

From the Abusir papyri we know that they were supply
stations/houses for the pyramid : they contained
slaughterhouses, and each day meat, bread and beer was
delivered to the pyramid for the daily offerings.

Each king had up to five different names. We know
them by the 'Son of Re' name, that is given to
the infant prince at birth. The 'Son of Re' names
and their meanings of the most important kings
are :

S-nofru (Soris)..........to make beautiful / He of beauty

Khufu (Cheops)...........Protected by Khnum
Djed-ef-re...............Enduring like Re
Kha-f-re (Chephren)......Appearing like Re
Men-kau-re (Mycerinus)...Eternal like the kas of Re
Shepses-ka-f.............Noble is his ka

User-ka-f................Powerful/Strong is his ka
Sahu-re..................He who is close to Re
Nefer-ir-ka-re...........Beautiful/good is the ka of Re
Shepses-ka-re............Noble is the ka of Re

Mentu-hotep..............Montu is satisfied/at piece
Amen-em-het..............Amun is at the top
S-en-wosret (Sesostris)..Man of wosret (=the powerful one)
Nefru-sobek (Sobeknofru).Beautiful is Sobek

Ah-mose..................Son of (i)ah
Amen-hotep (Amenophis)...Amun is at peace
Thut-mose (Tuthmosis)....Son of Thut/Thoth/Djehuti
Akh-en-aten..............He who is beneficial for Aton (Servant of
Aton)
Tutankhamun..............living image of Amun

Sety (Sethos)............Man of the (god) Seth
Ramose,
Ramesses.................Son of Re

The greek name is placed in brackets.
Instead of ka or ka-spirit you can also say "soul".
Re or Ra is the name of the sun-god.
Montu is the theban (war) god, that is
succeeded/replaced by amun in later times.
(i)ah is a moon god, Sobek the crocodile god.