Hi Tony,

I believe there is not too much enthusiasm for AI because people have been
promising too much for years. Back when AI first came out in the 1960's
people that it would be easy to make a creature smarter than humans but it
proved to be really difficult. Thus there are 4 decades of empty promises
from the Hard AI group. If you keep crying wolf sooner or later people will
start to ignore you.

You should read the book called "Darwin among the Machines" by Dyson. It
talks about emergent intelligent beings in our networks. He might be right
but I highly doubt it. I believe though that if you look at human society
then you could say the computer networks are making society as a whole more
intelligence. But that goes into abstracting away the details of society
and considering it as a superorganism.

Being in the scientific community I am sure that when artificial
intelligence beings are created it will be widely heralded and discussed.

For the source of my negative opinions on conspiracies and related quackery
check out the amazing book by Carl Sagan called "The Demon Haunted World"
and the magazine called "The Skeptical Inquirer".

All the best,
-ben houston
www.exocortex.org


------Original Message------
From: "Tony Savage" <a_lsavage@...>
To: Artilect@onelist.com
Sent: February 12, 2000 7:12:58 PM GMT
Subject: Re: [Artilect] Questions for the artilect group


From: "Tony Savage" <a_lsavage@...>

I also recently joined via the same route, and though I have not got too
into the technical yet, I do have a few thoughts to share, and some more
questions.

Given that the future of the world economy is dependent on securing the
viability of the internet. This will require security, robustness from both
failure and external aggressors, guaranteed uninterrupted power, automated
disaster recovery etc. We also know the processing power achieved through
persuading internet users to allow their desktop computers or even servers
to be strung together to perform specific tasks. Couple these factors
together and it does seem we are building the environment for an artilect.

As de Garis et al point out, artilect(s) will be something we cannot know.
Also there is no world wide governmental control on this research. So, how
will we know when it has arrived? This is to say, How will we know when the
first one becomes self-conscious if it is not a consciousness we can
recognise? And, how do we know this hasn't already happened?

We have to ask:
Is there an international register of CBM installations?
Is there legislation controlling the production or sale of FPGA's? Why is
there no public debate on the control of these issues?

And for a bit of ultra-conspiracy: the artilect is already here and is just
waiting for us to sort out a home for it. And furthermore, it is
manipulating us into building it for him\her.

Obviously nonsense, but the fact is this area is a gold mine for conspiracy
theorists, BUT WHERE ARE THEY ALL? You pointed out how little activity
there is within this group and this seems to be the case else where.
Indeed, when I try and tell anyone about this stuff they look at me like I
am a nutter; even the X-Filers and the SETI heads I know, don't think it's
anything to get excited about.

Well I am beginning to think there is a conspiracy to re-direct conspiracy
theorist activity away from AI, and in fact Area 51 is the site of the
worlds biggest CBM installation (surely the US government must have one
somewhere?).

So my question is: If there are so many well respected academics telling us
artilects are on 'their' way (and soon), why does it all get so little
press?

regards
Tony Savage


>From: JackJennings@...
>Reply-To: Artilect@onelist.com
>To: Artilect@onelist.com
>Subject: [Artilect] Questions for the artilect group
>Date: 10 Feb 2000 16:56:09 -0000
>
>From: JackJennings@...
>
>I have just joined this group from following the link from DeGaris' new web
>site. I read all of the archived messages and see that the group is not
>that
>active, but I'll post this anyway. Maybe the majority of the currently 36
>members are like me and primarily read what's there more so than post
>messages
>themselves.
>
>Since discovering DeGaris' web-site in 1999, I have periodically gone back
>to
>it every 3 months or so to see how he is progressing with his Cellular
>Automata
>machine development. When I went there this quarter, I was surprised to
>see
>that he had abruptly moved from the Japanese research agency to one based
>in
>Brussels. Does anyone know the circumstances of this move for Dr. DeGaris?
>
>More important though, I have gotten the downloaded unix c program running
>and
>found the resulting program interesting, but I would like to understand the
>underlying theory better. Of course, Dr. DeGaris provides all of the
>information on his comprehensive site, but I wonder if anyone has an
>explanation of the mathematical design of his CoDi (Collect-Distribute)
>neural
>network in simpler terms. His descriptions, I'm afraid, are somewhat above
>me. However, with effort, I think I can get through to a better
>understanding
>of it. For reference, one of the URL links I'm talking about is
>http://foobar.starlab.net/~degaris/cbm/index.html
>
>So, if anyone can help, please feel free to do so. Thank you.
>
>Jack Jennings
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent
>Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative4CL ">Click
>Here</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Join the ArtilectRing
>http://artilect.org/artilectring
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent
Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
<a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative7CI ">Click Here</a>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Join the ArtilectRing
http://artilect.org/artilectring

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001






Please click above to support our sponsor



Join the ArtilectRing
http://artilect.org/artilectring