Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group!

We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2009, from 8am to
5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
yet - but will post them when I get them.

The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
23, 2009 and Monday, January 25, 2009. Other BACnet working group
meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

LA-WG agenda items:

  1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
        Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
"Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
  2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
  3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
  4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors -
BACnet applicability?
  5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
The Watt Stopper / Legrand
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year corrected...

We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
yet - but will post them when I get them.

The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
23, 2010 and Monday, January 25, 2010. Other BACnet working group
meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

LA-WG agenda items:
1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
      Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
"Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
applicability?
5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
The Watt Stopper / Legrand
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

I am resending my meeting announcement with the room assignments added.

We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. We will meet in the Wekiwa 4 meeting
room.

The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
23, 2010 in the Wekiwa 5 meeting room, and Monday, January 25, 2010,
in the Suannee 15 meeting room. Other BACnet working group meetings
will be held on Thursday, Friday (Wekiwa 1, Suanee11 meeting rooms),
and Sunday (Wekiwa 7 and Wekiwa 2 meeting rooms) (January 21, 22, 24).

LA-WG agenda items:
1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
      Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
"Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
applicability?
5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
The Watt Stopper / Legrand
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hi Steve and all,
I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example) to
group as well.
Thanks Christoph

Christoph Zeller
Abt. NT
Fr. Sauter AG
Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
http://www.sauter-controls.com

DISCLAIMER:
This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
whether
it is really necessary to do so.
Using less paper helps the environment.




Von:
"David Ritter" <dritter@...>
An:
<BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com>
Datum:
12.01.2010 23:16
Betreff:
RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
Gesendet von:
BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




Hi Steve,

Could you send out the latest draft version of Addendum i to the group?
Thanks.

See you all in Orlando.

David


From: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com [
mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Karg
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:45 PM
To: BACnet Lighting Working Group
Subject: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida


Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year
corrected...

We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
yet - but will post them when I get them.

The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
23, 2010 and Monday, January 25, 2010. Other BACnet working group
meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

LA-WG agenda items:
1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
       Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
"Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum
W)
4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
applicability?
5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
The Watt Stopper / Legrand
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello Christoph and David,

> I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example) to
> group as well.

All the proposals we are discussing have been available on the Yahoo
Groups site since our last meeting in November, 2009.  I have also
sent the proposals, agenda, and meeting minutes to the BACnet FTP site
maintainer for our Orlando meeting.

DALI Mapping
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/RLH-001.pdf

Latest draft version of 2008 Addendum i
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft
7.doc

See you in Orlando!

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hi Steve,
the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
This is significantly older than our last meeting.
Is it still the valid one?
Thanks Christoph


Christoph Zeller
Abt. NT
Fr. Sauter AG
Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
http://www.sauter-controls.com

DISCLAIMER:
This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
whether
it is really necessary to do so.
Using less paper helps the environment.




Von:
Steve Karg <steve@...>
An:
BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
Datum:
13.01.2010 16:59
Betreff:
Re: RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
Gesendet von:
BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




Hello Christoph and David,

> I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example)
to
> group as well.

All the proposals we are discussing have been available on the Yahoo
Groups site since our last meeting in November, 2009. I have also
sent the proposals, agenda, and meeting minutes to the BACnet FTP site
maintainer for our Orlando meeting.

DALI Mapping
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/RLH-001.pdf

Latest draft version of 2008 Addendum i
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft

7.doc

See you in Orlando!

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello Christoph,

> the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
> This is significantly older than our last meeting.
> Is it still the valid one?

We have not discussed this proposal in a long time, and there have
been no revisions posted by Rick or Robert.  The RLH-001 posted on
Yahoo Groups is the latest file that I have.

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Dear all,
I was rereading the draft 7 for the Addendum i.
As follow the concerns I found in the document:

- Chapter 12.X.9 paragraph 2 (just under the table 12-Y)
   ... or the priority field of the LIghtingCommand if present

   The concept I see is that if this field in the lighting command is
present its this content to be used, if the field is not present in the
lighting command then
   the property priority is used. Which one of the two has the priority
might not be clear enough (although you should be able to correclty guess
from the context).
   I would suggest add a paragraph generally describing this behaviour and
not repeating it on all occasions (with slightly different language in the
next paragraph).
   It should be considered to change the language for all such fields of
the lighting command.
   One possible solution to make it even more clear is to rename the
corresponding properties to Default_xxx.

- Chapter 12.X.15.1 Blink Warning Behaviour
   I guess that the description of auto-reliquish is not behaving as
expected:
   Example: We have a priority Array with one populated Entry of 100% at
priority 12. All other entries are NULL.
   Now we are writing 0% to priority 8 which triggers blink warning. Blink
Warning is inserting 0% to priority 6 for Blink-Time.
   Next 100% is written to priority 6 to restore the previous level for
Warn-Delay seconds. Then priority 6 should be relinquished.
   Unfortunately with the language written we are relinquishing priority 8
which results in 100% (Why did we had a Blink-Warning?)
   There might be more ambiguities with auto-relinquish I was not checking
all occurences so far.

   The critical point with interference with COV-Notifications is still not
resolved!

- Chapter 12.X.30/31
   introducing a new concept of automatically readjust min_pres_value and
max_pres_value if they are commanded to opposite directions.
   In all other objects this is not done and potentially controversal
during public review (Analog Output Objects are not mentioning it).
   If we introduce it here, we should consider introducing the same
mechanism to all other opjects as well.

See you soon in Orlando
Regards
Christoph



Christoph Zeller
Abt. NT
Fr. Sauter AG
Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
http://www.sauter-controls.com

DISCLAIMER:
This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
whether
it is really necessary to do so.
Using less paper helps the environment.




Von:
Steve Karg <steve@...>
An:
BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
Datum:
13.01.2010 18:13
Betreff:
Re: Re: RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
Gesendet von:
BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




Hello Christoph,

> the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
> This is significantly older than our last meeting.
> Is it still the valid one?

We have not discussed this proposal in a long time, and there have
been no revisions posted by Rick or Robert. The RLH-001 posted on
Yahoo Groups is the latest file that I have.

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BACnetLighting
group.

   File        : /Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft.pdf
   Uploaded by : stephenkarg <steve@...>
   Description : Draft of 135-2004 Addendum i - Publication Public Review 4
(Lighting Output object)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

stephenkarg <steve@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BACnetLighting
group.

   File        : /Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft.pdf
   Uploaded by : stephenkarg <steve@...>
   Description : Draft of 135-2004 Addendum i - Publication Public Review 4
(Lighting Output object)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

stephenkarg <steve@...>

Has the schedule for the meeting in May been determined?  I am scheduled to
attend Lightfair which is the same week.

Hello BACnet Lighting Applications working group!

There are a bunch of BACnet addenda (ANSI/ASHRAE Standard 135 and
135.1) out for public review from March 26, 2010 to May 10, 2010:
https://osr.ashrae.org/

Specifically, the Lighting Output object:
https://osr.ashrae.org/sitepages/showdoc2.aspx/ListName/Public%20Review%20Draft%\
20Standards/ItemID/337/IsAttachment/N/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft+_chair-approved_.\
pdf

Please review, and submit any "supportive" comments as needed. :-)

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the
Lighting Applications working group will be at the Spring interim SSPC
meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College Germantown Campus
from May 10, 2010, through May 14, 2010. The Lighting Applications
working group will be meeting on Monday, May 10, 2010, from 1pm to 5pm
in GB105, and Tuesday, May 11, 2010, from 8am to 10am in GB106. Other
working groups will be meeting during the week as well, and SSPC 135
BACnet will meet on Thursday and Friday, May 13-14, 2010, in GB105.

The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the following items:
1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 comment responses.
2. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
3. Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
4. IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
applicability?
5. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
Lithonia Lighting
--
Montgomery College is served by three major international airports in
the Washington, DC area, Baltimore-Washington International(BWI),
Dulles International(IAD) and Reagan National (DCA).

Our host arranged a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton Inn which is
within easy walking distance of the meetings.

Hampton Inn
20260 Goldenrod Lane
Germantown, MD 20876
Contact: Richard Petras, General Manager, e-mail: GermantownDOS@...
Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
www.hamptoninngermantown.com
Group/Convention Code: ASH
Rate: $117.00 + tax (May 8, 2010 -May 16, 2009)
Location: The Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the
Germantown Campus and is a 2 block walk through parking lots that adjoin
the campus. Maps and directions can be found on the website.

Meeting Location:
Goldenrod Building (GB), Rooms GB105 & GB106
Goldenrod Lane
Germantown, Maryland 20876
Note: Goldenrod Building is across the street from the Hampton Inn on
Goldenrod Drive.
Contact: Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
Office Phone: Office Phone: +1 (240) 567-7375, Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
e-mail: mike.whitcomb@...
http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html

Hello LA-WG folks

We at Siemens analyzed the addendum 135-2008i intensively and came to the conclusion that we would like to propose alternate solutions to improve the current approach. We know that we are quite late in the process because we just finished our investigations to use BACnet for the Light domain. 

In comparison with the actual addendum 135-2008i we elaborated an alternate solution to solve the issues regarding the prioritization mechanism. One of the strengths of the solution is that it is also applicable to other domains for example Blind or Video (control a camera position) as well.

We think that our proposal overcomes the limitations of the automatic relinquish approach of addendum 135-2008i. In addition to sending our proposal we will enter corresponding comments for addendum 135-2008i.

Siemens is committed to provide the alternate solution for discussion and is also committed to contribute to bring a revised addendum 135-2008i as fast as possible to publication. I am locking forward to explain and discuss the proposal in Germantown.

Please find attached the proposal RK-006-1 which explains our alternate solutions. If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me.

<<RK-006-1.pdf>>

Mit freundlichem Gruss
René Kälin

Siemens Switzerland Ltd.
Industry Sector
Building Technologies Division
International Headquaters
HVAC Products Systems
System Design & Test, Integrations
I BT HVP SYS RD SDT
Gubelstrasse 22
6301 Zug

Tel direkt: +41 (0)41 724 32 32
Mailto:rene.kaelin@...

Hello all,

I will not be able to participate the LA-WG meeting in Germantown on Monday because they cancled my flight to Washington. Hope that I'll make it to Germantown on Thuesday.

Gruss
René Kälin

Hello Lighting Applications Working Group!

As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the
Lighting Applications working group will be at the Summer SSPC
meeting, which is being held in Albuquerque from June 24, 2010,
through June 28, 2010. The Lighting Applications working group will be
meeting on Thursday, June 24, 2010, from 8am to 5pm in Enchantment C
room of the Hyatt Regency. Keep in mind that there are rooms named
"Enchantment" in both the Convention Center and Hyatt Regency.

As usual, the plenary meetings for SSPC 135 will be on Saturday and
Monday, with working group meetings on Thursday, Friday, and Sunday.

The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the following items:
1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 comment responses.
2. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR5 draft

Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
items to this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
WattStopper
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

I will be out of the office starting  06/13/2010 and will not return until
06/18/2010.

I am on vacation

This email, and any document attached hereto, may contain
confidential and/or privileged information.  If you are not the
intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please
notify the sender immediately and destroy this email.  Any
unauthorized, direct or indirect, copying, disclosure, distribution
or other use of the material or parts thereof is strictly
forbidden.

Hi LA-folks,
during the minutes I figured out that we are potentially not talking form the
same assumptions.
Therefore I compiled a document to layout the basic assumptions and to show a
possible deployment

Best regards Christoph

Hello Lighting Applications Working Group!

The Lighting Applications working group met at the Summer SSPC meeting, held in
Albuquerque on June 24, 2010, and June 25, 2010.

Below are the minutes, which will be posted to the BACnet committee as LA032.

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
WattStopper
--
Minutes
BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group
BACnet Summer Meeting
Albuquerque, New Mexico

8:00AM – 5:00 PM on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - Enchantment C, Hyatt Regency
3:15PM– 5:00 PM on Friday, June 25, 2010 - Sandia, Convention Center
--------------------------------
  1. Opening remarks - working group (8:00PM - 5 minutes)
  2. Circulation of attendance sheet, and introduction of those present (8:05 - 5
minutes)
Name Organization
Bernhard Isler Siemens
Klaus Waechter Siemens
Sharon Dinges Trane-Ingersoll Rand
Scott Ziegenfus Lutron Electronics
Chariti Young ALC
Christoph Zeller Sauter
Duane L. King Acuity Brands Controls
Rick Leinen Leviton
Steve Karg Watt Stopper
René Kälin Siemens
Dana Petersen Johnson Controls
David Fisher Polarsoft

  3. Meeting role assignments (8:10 - 5 minutes)
• time keeper:  (breaks: 10AM, 2PM, 3PM, 4PM) – Rick Leinen
• scribe – Chariti Young
• non-agenda item attendant – Cristoph Zeller
  4. Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. (8:15 - 5 minutes)

Some discussion of the previous minutes.
Corrected misspelling of Rene's name and "idea".
Refer SSPC 135 minutes for details on RK-006 presentation and discussion

>> David Ritter moved that the minutes be accepted as amended. Seconded by Duane
King. Unanimously approved.

Updated minutes posted to server.

  5. Discussion and approval of the agenda for this meeting. (8:20 - 5 minutes)

Added action item from SSPC 135 to clarify how lighting output object should
work within a BACnet system as part of the bigger picture - develop a design and
usage guide for object.

Added action from SSPC 135 to sort through proposals in terms of what is still
valid or not.  Continue, table, reject, completed.

>> Revised agenda approved..

  6. Liason updates (NEMA, IESNA, DALI) (8:25 - 5 minutes)
No updates

  7. Action Items – Proposals and Responses (8:30 – 7 hours)
  8. Clarify how lighting output object should work within a BACnet system as
part of the bigger picture – develop a design and usage guide for object. 
Discuss Use Cases developed in Germantown (STK-029-3.doc).

Began with discussion of Rene's proposal for a Design and Usage guide.
(Design_And_Usage_Lighting_Output_Object_EN.ppt)

Proposal was coordinated among Siemens control and lighting resources.

Slide 12: In = information sent to lamp. Out = information provided from lamp.

Slide 15: If we can make the assumptions that control logic always exists
outside of the lighting output object and that there is no direct interaction
between input and output, then the resolution of multiple inputs (perhaps with
the exception of priority arbitration) should be handled by the control logic,
not by the output object.

If we remove the control logic type specifications from the output object
specification (e.g. handling of input chatter, how to handle timeout switches),
other objects could be added in the future if needed to standardize the way that
control logic and interface are handled.  May have difficulty deciding what's an
important interface to the control logic and what's an integral piece of the
output object – where is the line?  Need to discuss and decide which pieces of
the control logic truly belong in the output (perhaps minimum on/off), and which
can be better or more appropriately handled external to (above or before) the
output object.

If compare Addendum I to design and usage guide proposal, most of the contents
fall within the proposed paradigm.  A few properties may need some further
discussion to either provide a more abstract interface specification (rather
than a specific output object specification) or to determine that the specified
property is indeed control logic that should be exposed in the output object. 
Per comments received, blink behavior is one area that may need to be revisited,
as well as the resolution of command, priority arbitration, and blink.  Expected
behavior should also be considered as part of the specification. If integrate
multiple BACnet systems, could vendor-unique implementation and behavior cause a
problem for the end-use customer? Agreement on the paradigm may help the
committee come to consensus on contentious inclusions to the specification.

Blink Warn:  Should blink warn be part of this object?  Primary objection is the
coupling of the blink warning functionality with the priority array.  There is a
day-to-day need for blink warning. Decision re: whether or not to blink warn
could be source-dependent, application-specific, device-specific, and/or
time-sensitive.  Network latency issues require that blink happen at the output
device.

Possible needs identified:
      1. An inherent property (output object supports/performs blink or doesn't)
      2. A command-included property that specifies blink/not
      3. Property to auto-trigger blink when present value transitions to zero

In the case of (3), interleaved commands can cause unexpected behavior.  
"Blink" is tied to "off."  But "off" is not necessarily tied to "blink."

History: having a zero present value write trigger blink allows legacy client
devices to treat the output object as an analog object, yet enable this
lighting-specific behavior to occur.

  9. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 comment review and response
add-135-2008i-ppr4-draft
LAWG-135-2008i-PPR4-Comment-Detail

0002-001: How do we handle blink? Much discussion. Resolution over whether we
need to allow legacy scheduler a way to achieve a blink warning directly: it is
acceptable to require some external control logic that can consume a signal from
a legacy scheduler and convert it to a command to the lighting output object. 
Concern over removing the entire blink sequence from the output object, because
if non-atomic, execution and interruption becomes unreliable.  Remove "present
value (0) = blink."  Replace with a lighting command (blink and off).  Blink
occurs via the lighting command only, and the language re: interaction between
blink and priority array goes away.  If default behavior is no blink, need
Relinquish and Blink_ and_Relinquish. The lighting output object should only
require one timer, although more are allowed (and may be required, depending on
the implementation).

If blink and relinquish is commanded to a priority and a higher priority is in
effect, the command never writes a value to the priority array, it just
relinquishes the slot.  If blink and relinquish is commanded to a priority, then
something happens at a higher priority, cancel the command and execute higher
priority command.  (Should the value at the lower priority slot be relinquished?
Behavior must be defined.)

Need to be able to interrupt blink and begin a timeout with a switch input.  And
an input from a second switch should interrupt the original timeout and begin a
second timeout.  All BACnet clients that can write are also responsible for
relinquishing.

Having only one priority allowed for lighting commands is problematic – multiple
priorities are used regularly to decide which lighting command to execute.  They
provide a way to have a fade to value and fade to relinquish happen on
exceptional situations. For example, a lighting test in a board room that allows
both the on and off command to fade rather than jump to a value.

Other primary objection with existing proposal is with the concept of
auto-relinquish after a delay/duration.  Also, what to do with stale commands.

Next steps:
Dave F to draft resolution of removing present value (0) = blink and add new
blink commands by 7/31.
Dave R to comb review comments, add any open issues to those raised at this
meeting
     * automatic relinquish
     * stale commands
     * need for lighting command at multiple priorities
     * Need for binary properties, or can the object just be analog
     * Blink warning
and send email to LA-WG on yahoo group by  6/30.

  10. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
RLH-001-3b – Not discussed.
  11. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.
STK-021-1 – Not discussed.
  12. Discussion of Non-Agenda Items (4:45PM - 10 minutes)
  13. Sort through proposals in terms of what is still valid or not.  Continue,
table, reject, or completed.  – Not completed.
  14. Schedule for future meetings.(4:55PM - 5 minutes)

6/25 3-5pm CC Sandia

Once we have a draft to discuss, Steve K will publish an agenda and schedule one
or more teleconference(s).

Steve K to publish minutes to yahoo group by 6/30

If another interim meeting is not scheduled, the next meeting will be in
conjunction with the SSPC 135 interim fall meeting in October.

Hello,

Since I need to make travel arrangements for Atlanta, I would like to
ask for clarification on an LA-WG interim meeting.

Since the IT-WG will not have an interim meeting, I suppose that there
will not be an LA-WG interim meeting, and also no additional extra LA-WG
days in Atlanta.

Correct?

Best,
Bernhard


Bernhard Isler
Siemens Switzerland Ltd
Building Technologies Division
International Headquarters
Fire Safety & Security Products

Gubelstrasse 22
CH-6301 Zug, Switzerland

Tel: +41 (41) 724 33 87
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Fax: +41 (41) 723 48 94

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Hello Bernhard,

> Since I need to make travel arrangements for Atlanta, I would like to
> ask for clarification on an LA-WG interim meeting.
>
> Since the IT-WG will not have an interim meeting, I suppose that there
> will not be an LA-WG interim meeting, and also no additional extra LA-WG
> days in Atlanta.

I have not made any arrangement for additional meetings outside of the
November BACnet SSPC-135 meeting in Atlanta, so it is safe to assume
that we will not have an interim meeting before Atlanta.

I have also not made any arrangements for conference calls to reach
consensus on 2008 Addendum-i Lighting Output object proposal and
public review comments.  I'm either quite the slacker, or a quite busy
making BACnet products (assume the latter, please).  Please accept my
apologies in advance.  I hope to make good progress in November when
we meet.

> Correct?

You are correct.

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/

Hello Bernhard,

I mentioned SSPC meetings in Atlanta in November, but I think that was
a mistake.  The SSPC meetings were tentatively scheduled for October
25-29 in Atlanta.  As far as I know, the BACnet meetings are still
scheduled for October, and the Lighting Applications working group
will meet then. I'll post more details when I get them.

I must have been thinking about the BTL Plugfest that is being held in
Atlanta in November...

Best Regards,

Steve
--
http://steve.kargs.net/