Makes sense to me, I vaguely remember some frolicking in the woods by the
light of the moon that a good rainstorm would definently put a damper on,
but not being one of the bright minds in the group my humble opinion is
happily more fantasy rather than established fact, Now I yearn for that fall
rain and full moon to research this more thoroughly.

Will

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:27 AM, L. Roxanne Evans <
ecocentricdesignco@...> wrote:

>   Hi, I'm a member of the Fungus Federation of Santa Cruz and also a
> member of this list. One of our FFSC members posted the message below
> and I wonder if any of the bright minds on this list would like to
> take a stab at providing some insight. Thanks!
>
> Roxanne
>
> From the FFSC:
> Just got a note from a friend who lives part time in France. She says
> the locals are getting ready for mushroom hunting after rains and
> after the full moon. She wonders about the "full moon" aspect.
> Anything really to this or is this just folklore?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was on several forays with David A. in the middle eighties and several
Green Cocorras were found in the Santa Cruz mountain area around the
Felton/Ben Lomond area, I believe this was in early winter. One of the foray
group members took them and indicated he was planning to cook them, as he
lived for another twenty years or thereabouts I assume any toxins were slow
acting.

Will

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Peter G Werner <pgwerner@...> wrote:

>   Hi Debbie –
>
> I notice you were looking for reports of the green coccora – I've seen this
> before, but it was a
> long time ago. It was in the mid-1980s, Sierra Nevada, April or May, near
> (but obviously not
> in) a burn area between Groveland and Yosemite. Typical mixed woodland for
> that elevation.
>
> At the time, I wasn't even aware that they were rare.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

HMMM.

I can't recall the date on the material seen by Peck (which is where the "green"
reference comes from)....wait a minute....I'm looking for Jenkins' type study
paper relating to Peck's types.....

No wonder I couldn't remember!  Jenkins apparently couldn't find the type in
NYS.  It's not covered in either of his papers on Peck's types.

I'll have to look for the protolog...

More later.

Very best,

Rod

A couple of weeks ago I posted on Mushroom Observer an
unusual, petite orange, omphaloid mushroom that I
collected in a swamp at Pink Beds, NC (in Smokey
Mountain NP). It looked superficially like our tiny,
moss-dwelling friend Rickenella fibula, and in fact
that was our taxo-buddy, intrepid listmember Doug
Smith's ID guess.

But it differs from Rickenella in one important
way...it lacks cystidia (sterile, microscopic
structures that poke out from the surface of various
mushroom parts) on its cap, and that translates into a
smooth rather than fuzzy surface to the (youthful)
naked eye (or the hand-lens assisted eye for the rest
of us). It is, apparently, also MR (rhizoid, not
rhizhae) with liverworts! That's a new one on me, but
obviously this fungus can broaden its range of
primitive plant hosts, since I found it growing
directly from the rhizoid of a
several-inches-in-height, large and luxuriant bed of
moss.

Formerly Omphalina postii, it is now in a genus named
after Lorelei Norvel: Loreleia. The name Loreleia
postii doesn't trip off the tongue, but it is indeed a
curious beastie. For the taxonomic progression and a
photo, go here, to the MO page:

http://mushroomobserver.org/9013?search_seq=8

Debbie Viess

Peck didn't see the material, he only saw the
description by a turn-of-the-last-century Dr. Lane
(hence the current moniker Amanita lanei) from Oregon,
who described a Fall coccora that was "green in all of
its parts."

I am still not convinced that a Fall coccora comes in
shades of green, esp. if that includes the stipe, and
maybe even the volva? What did Lane mean by that
statement, anyway? And how can you have a species type
description of a highly atypical, if not mythical
form? I need to see photos, and dessicata and better
yet, find one myself to become a believer.

For now, I'm banking on the later Fall coccora
description from Santa Cruz, where they are colored a
more typical and lovely golden brown, rimmed with
yellow: Amanita calyptroderma. Now there's a name that
doesn't make me squirm-a.

Debbie Viess

- "Dr. Rodham E. Tulloss" <ret@...> wrote:

> HMMM.
>
> I can't recall the date on the material seen by Peck
> (which is where the "green"
> reference comes from)....wait a minute....I'm
> looking for Jenkins' type study
> paper relating to Peck's types.....
>
> No wonder I couldn't remember!  Jenkins apparently
> couldn't find the type in
> NYS.  It's not covered in either of his papers on
> Peck's types.
>
> I'll have to look for the protolog...
>
> More later.
>
> Very best,
>
> Rod
>
>

I suspect that this was again forms of the pale spring
cocccora, which doesn't always fruit strictly in the
spring. I will write David, and see what he has to
say. If indeed you found a green fall I am sure that
he would've remembered it.

Debbie V.

--- William <scrofolus@...> wrote:

> I was on several forays with David A. in the middle
> eighties and several
> Green Cocorras were found in the Santa Cruz mountain
> area around the
> Felton/Ben Lomond area, I believe this was in early
> winter. One of the foray
> group members took them and indicated he was
> planning to cook them, as he
> lived for another twenty years or thereabouts I
> assume any toxins were slow
> acting.
>
> Will
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Peter G Werner
> <pgwerner@...> wrote:
>
> >   Hi Debbie –
> >
> > I notice you were looking for reports of the green
> coccora – I've seen this
> > before, but it was a
> > long time ago. It was in the mid-1980s, Sierra
> Nevada, April or May, near
> > (but obviously not
> > in) a burn area between Groveland and Yosemite.
> Typical mixed woodland for
> > that elevation.
> >
> > At the time, I wasn't even aware that they were
> rare.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website at www.bayareamushrooms.org
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> mailto:BayAreaMushrooms-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

This story of the green Coccora is like chasing Bigfoot. I don't
believe it until I'm shown a quality photograph of it.

The Fall species can have a deep olive discoloration on the pileus
that can pass as green. Not the rest of the body.

The spring one can look pale greenish and if it loses it's hat (top
veil) it can pass as a phalloides.

I'm not trying to prove nonexistence, as such is impossible to prove.
But I await to be proven its existence so that we can understand if
these were purely environmental factors that led to such a peculiar
discoloration. But I do not believe that can be true to the white
parts of the fruitbody. Anyway, no solid evidence, no claim...

	 D.



--- In BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com, debbie viess
<amanitarita@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> I suspect that this was again forms of the pale spring
> cocccora, which doesn't always fruit strictly in the
> spring. I will write David, and see what he has to
> say. If indeed you found a green fall I am sure that
> he would've remembered it.
>
> Debbie V.
>
> --- William <scrofolus@...> wrote:
>
> > I was on several forays with David A. in the middle
> > eighties and several
> > Green Cocorras were found in the Santa Cruz mountain
> > area around the
> > Felton/Ben Lomond area, I believe this was in early
> > winter. One of the foray
> > group members took them and indicated he was
> > planning to cook them, as he
> > lived for another twenty years or thereabouts I
> > assume any toxins were slow
> > acting.
> >
> > Will
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Peter G Werner
> > <pgwerner@...> wrote:
> >
> > >   Hi Debbie –
> > >
> > > I notice you were looking for reports of the green
> > coccora – I've seen this
> > > before, but it was a
> > > long time ago. It was in the mid-1980s, Sierra
> > Nevada, April or May, near
> > > (but obviously not
> > > in) a burn area between Groveland and Yosemite.
> > Typical mixed woodland for
> > > that elevation.
> > >
> > > At the time, I wasn't even aware that they were
> > rare.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Visit our website at www.bayareamushrooms.org
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     (Yahoo! ID required)
> >
> > mailto:BayAreaMushrooms-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>

I found this doing a Google search. http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0202mn.pdf
which has two articles about the same subject.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Dimitar Bojantchev
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:13 AM
   Subject: [BAMS] Re: ferreting out the peculiarities in Section Caesarea


   This story of the green Coccora is like chasing Bigfoot. I don't
   believe it until I'm shown a quality photograph of it.

   The Fall species can have a deep olive discoloration on the pileus
   that can pass as green. Not the rest of the body.

   The spring one can look pale greenish and if it loses it's hat (top
   veil) it can pass as a phalloides.

   I'm not trying to prove nonexistence, as such is impossible to prove.
   But I await to be proven its existence so that we can understand if
   these were purely environmental factors that led to such a peculiar
   discoloration. But I do not believe that can be true to the white
   parts of the fruitbody. Anyway, no solid evidence, no claim...

   D.

   --- In BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com, debbie viess
   <amanitarita@...> wrote:
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
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   >
   >
   >
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   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > I suspect that this was again forms of the pale spring
   > cocccora, which doesn't always fruit strictly in the
   > spring. I will write David, and see what he has to
   > say. If indeed you found a green fall I am sure that
   > he would've remembered it.
   >
   > Debbie V.
   >
   > --- William <scrofolus@...> wrote:
   >
   > > I was on several forays with David A. in the middle
   > > eighties and several
   > > Green Cocorras were found in the Santa Cruz mountain
   > > area around the
   > > Felton/Ben Lomond area, I believe this was in early
   > > winter. One of the foray
   > > group members took them and indicated he was
   > > planning to cook them, as he
   > > lived for another twenty years or thereabouts I
   > > assume any toxins were slow
   > > acting.
   > >
   > > Will
   > >
   > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Peter G Werner
   > > <pgwerner@...> wrote:
   > >
   > > > Hi Debbie -
   > > >
   > > > I notice you were looking for reports of the green
   > > coccora - I've seen this
   > > > before, but it was a
   > > > long time ago. It was in the mid-1980s, Sierra
   > > Nevada, April or May, near
   > > > (but obviously not
   > > > in) a burn area between Groveland and Yosemite.
   > > Typical mixed woodland for
   > > > that elevation.
   > > >
   > > > At the time, I wasn't even aware that they were
   > > rare.
   > > >
   > > >
   > > >
   > >
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > > removed]
   > >
   > >
   > > ------------------------------------
   > >
   > > Visit our website at www.bayareamushrooms.org
   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >
   > > (Yahoo! ID required)
   > >
   > > mailto:BayAreaMushrooms-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, it was part of the Spring Sierra population. I beg to differ on
the "almost green" part, though – this had a deep green pileus, and
not green like A. phalloides, but a darker and more deeply saturated
green.

Peter

debbie viess <amanitarita@...> wrote:

> Damn, it's still theoretical w/out documentation...and
> if you found it in the Sierra, it was most likely the
> spring version, which often has oddly yellow-almost
> greenish tones. It's the fall coccora that we are
> looking for in shades of green.

How green was Dr. Lane's material that was sent to C. Peck and formed the basis
of the description of "Amanita calyptrata Peck" (non Lamarck).  From the
following (which is in the same format Peck used in the same period for taxa in
which he himself is KNOWN to have seen the exsiccata), you have to decide what
you think.

This is Peck's protolog from the Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club, vol. 27,
p.14 (1900) in an article entitled "New Species of Fungi."  The entire
description and discussion are presented.

"Amanita calyptrata

"Pileus fleshy, thick, convex or nearly plane, centrally covered by a large
irregular persistent grayish white fragment of the volva, glabrous elsewhere,
striate on the margin, greenish yellow or yellowish brown tinged with green, the
   margin often a little paler or more yellow than the rest : lamellae close,
nearly free but reaching the stem and forming slight decurrent lines or
striations on it, yellowish white tinged with green : stem stout, rather long,
equal or slightly tapering upward, surrounded at the base by the remains of the
ruptured volva, white or yellowish white with a faint greenish tint : spores
broadly elliptic, 10 µ long, 6 µ broad, usually containing a single large
nucleus.

"Pileus 10-20 cm. broad : stem 10-15 cm. long, 12-20 mm. thick.

"Rich ground in fir woods or their borders.  Autumn.  Oregon.  Dr. H. Lane

"This is a large and interesting species, well marked and easily recognized by
its large size, by the greenish tint that pervades the pileus, lamellae,
annulus, and stem and especially by the large persistent patch of grayish white
felty material that covers the center of the pileus and sometimes extends nearly
to the margin.  This is in fact the upper part of the ruptured volva that is
carried up by the growing plant and is very suggestive of the specific name.  In
the young state the plant is entirely enveloped in the volva which then is
similar to a goose egg in size and shape, and its walls are one-fourth to
one-half an inch thick.  So thick and firm are they that the young plant appears
sometimes to be unable to break through and it decays in its infancy.

"Dr. Lane says that, having found that the Italians made use of this mushroom
for food, he began eating it and introducing it to his friends, and he learned
by personal trial that it is a thoroughly good and wholesome mushroom, which,
when broiled with bacon, fried, baked or stewed, may be eaten with perfect
safety and that it is a nutritious food."

It seems to me that the emphasis on the green color seems to increase in the
comments on the description over the way the manner in which colors are
described in first paragraph.

Rod


P.S. To spread this description around, I think that I'll attach it to the
Amanita Studies webpage on A. calyptroderma.

R.

Please don't take offense, Peter.

This green coccora is the Amanita fanciers' Yeti, and
supposed sightings, without hard evidence, are greeted
with about the same skepticism. I respect your eye and
taxo abilites, but memory and light can both play
tricks. Show me the money! (or an untouched photo,
which these days of photoshop is probably an
impossibility) or better yet, show me the mushroom,
next time you find one. And that goes for all of you
out there. Prove me right, or prove me wrong; just
prove it.

DV
ps so Rod, from your reference to "calyptroderma",
does this mean that the hated "lanei" has finally
fallen by the wayside??! Be still, my beating heart!
If so, finally, some latin changes that I can live
with!

--- Peter G Werner <pgwerner@...> wrote:

> Yes, it was part of the Spring Sierra population. I
> beg to differ on
> the "almost green" part, though – this had a deep
> green pileus, and
> not green like A. phalloides, but a darker and more
> deeply saturated
> green.
>
> Peter

If we could accept that Peck was describing a faintly greenish example of what
Atkinson and Ballen called A. calyptroderma, then the latter is the correct name
as Nathan Wilson pointed out several months (nearly a year?) back.

I just posted the same citation of Peck's original article on the Amanita
Studies site as I posted to BAMS an hour or more ago.  I would not say that the
description emphasizes the greenness very much.  It seems as though Peck turned
up the "green" heat in his discussion, and more has been made of the "GREENNESS"
since.  The name "lanei" was nothing but a new name (no change in species
concept) for "calyptrata" when Murrill realized that Lamarck had used the name
in the late 18th Century.  So the description of "lanei" is the same as the
description of "calyptrata" that I transcribed and mailed out.

If there is a type specimen of calyptrata (=lanei) that can be found in NYS, we
could see how much data could be extracted from it.  BUT...

Very best,

Rod

I understand and appreciate Peter's assertion, but I could swear that
my first girlfriend had green eyes, but when I met her last year they
were hazel. Even worse, I recently lost a bet against my wife over
something that I could swear did hapenn and she showed that it never
did. Anyway.

Let's get hard-core here -- talk numbers.  This is a major species,
widely recognized, commercially collected in large scale. Million(s)
fruitbodies might get removed each year. Statistically speaking, it is
highly unlikely that by now nobody borrowed his uncle's camera
to snap a photo of this highly unusual species -- as "GREEN" as it's
made to be. It is unlikely that the commercial pickers didn't come up
with a special name for it -- (you know they love names) and ask
for $10 extra for a green Coccora :-) How likely is it that it never
showed at any of the countless forays, fairs, etc? A lot of material
has been moved in terms of Coccora -- did the green one show up?
The stats do not support that assertion.

Hey, I heard a rumor that Elvis is back in Graceland with a bag of
green coccora?

     D.

P.S. Great picking in the high Sierras, it's going off.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: debbie viess
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 7:37 PM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Re: ferreting out the peculiarities in Section Caesarea


   Please don't take offense, Peter.

   This green coccora is the Amanita fanciers' Yeti, and
   supposed sightings, without hard evidence, are greeted
   with about the same skepticism. I respect your eye and
   taxo abilites, but memory and light can both play
   tricks. Show me the money! (or an untouched photo,
   which these days of photoshop is probably an
   impossibility) or better yet, show me the mushroom,
   next time you find one. And that goes for all of you
   out there. Prove me right, or prove me wrong; just
   prove it.

   DV
   ps so Rod, from your reference to "calyptroderma",
   does this mean that the hated "lanei" has finally
   fallen by the wayside??! Be still, my beating heart!
   If so, finally, some latin changes that I can live
   with!

   --- Peter G Werner <pgwerner@...> wrote:

   > Yes, it was part of the Spring Sierra population. I
   > beg to differ on
   > the "almost green" part, though - this had a deep
   > green pileus, and
   > not green like A. phalloides, but a darker and more
   > deeply saturated
   > green.
   >
   > Peter





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, sad story for edibles this year in Crested Butte.  3 truffles, however
which Larry Evans (fungaljungal.org) made off with, and other interesting stuff
I was told. It really looked like it was going to go.  We did get set back a
month for spring mushrooms because of high snow, so maybe too early. 
Chanterelles were plentiful, but never grew much past button stage, and most
rotted.

But, we had fun anyway.




_______________________
John-Marc Ventimiglia
_______________________

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: JMV
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:40 AM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Colorado News


   Larry, I have just dried 6 batches, 6 different temp settings, and I am not
getting the satisfaction of that perfume in the final product,
   But you are right about that, because a friend dried a batch once, and he made
the mistake of letting him use his house while he was away. I stumbled onto that
jar and when I opened the lid.....
   I suppose that is what crack is like, except I did stop before I emptied the
jar!

   _______________________
   John-Marc Ventimiglia
   _______________________

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Larry Stickney
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 10:11 PM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Colorado News

   The papery thin Chanterelles from high Colorado elevations will rehydrate
easily,and have a perfume far beyond that of our gargantuan California species.

   Larry

   --- On Sat, 8/9/08, debbie viess <amanitarita@...> wrote:

   From: debbie viess <amanitarita@...>
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Colorado News
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 9:40 AM

   A question for you: what do you do with all of those
   chanterelles? In my experience, and with our Western
   versions, they don't dry well. How do you preserve
   them? Or do you just feast like mad during the season?

   Curious Debbie

   --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:

   > The chanterelles are all over the place, more than I
   > have seen in a long
   > time (Yes Debbie, even THAT year!) but still too
   > small (IMO) to pick, but
   > soon. > John-Marc
   >
   >

   ------------------------------------

   Visit our website at www.bayareamushrooms.org
   Yahoo! Groups Links

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the past few years in Crested Butte Colorado, I am noticing fields of
chanterelles that begin to get a grey watery interior and ferment?  The
beautiful apricot aroma turns into something closer to ammoniated windex.  I
have been told by some individuals at our latest festival that it is a bacteria
rather than getting waterlogged and rotting

Anyone have any more definitive info on that?


_______________________
John-Marc Ventimiglia
_______________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is bad news.

We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a while
now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw evidence of
this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles shown to
me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We have not
proven what actually causes it, but again bacterial
infection is suspected; it does happen pretty quickly
tho, so who knows?

Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a scope,
and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
appetizing...

Debbie V.

--- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:

> For the past few years in Crested Butte Colorado, I
> am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin to get
> a grey watery interior and ferment?  The beautiful
> apricot aroma turns into something closer to
> ammoniated windex.  I have been told by some
> individuals at our latest festival that it is a
> bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and rotting
>
>
> Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
>
>
> _______________________
> John-Marc Ventimiglia
> _______________________
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

Appetizing? No.  And I am wondering as well, someone here got sick from last
years crop (or so they say) so I am wondering if that could be it.  I am
constantly astounded by people who don't get that mushrooms spoil. just like
everything else.  One fellow at the fest here asked me why anyone would want to
eat a truffle because the one Larry had stunk so bad.  I actually had to inform
him that it was because it was mushy & rotten.

Now to find  a scope.  If I do, i'll let everyone know.


_______________________
John-Marc Ventimiglia
_______________________

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: debbie viess
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:23 PM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot


   That is bad news.

   We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
   giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a while
   now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
   decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw evidence of
   this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles shown to
   me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We have not
   proven what actually causes it, but again bacterial
   infection is suspected; it does happen pretty quickly
   tho, so who knows?

   Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a scope,
   and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
   appetizing...

   Debbie V.

   --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:

   > For the past few years in Crested Butte Colorado, I
   > am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin to get
   > a grey watery interior and ferment? The beautiful
   > apricot aroma turns into something closer to
   > ammoniated windex. I have been told by some
   > individuals at our latest festival that it is a
   > bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and rotting
   >
   >
   > Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
   >
   >
   > _______________________
   > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > _______________________
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > removed]
   >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Since you guys liked the previous pages and were so nice to me, let's
do one more -- back in the West -- impressions from this weekend's
hunting in the High Sierra.

Collecting by "The Sounds of Running Water" is a California theme
that may not resonate much with those out of state, but most of you
here we'll understand. Why looking at the clouds, enjoying the rain?
After a summer of drought, high heat, and smell of burning woods,
mushroom-starved Californians understand what it means to see a
thunderstorm over the Sierras. And then appreciate its gifts.

http://mushroomhobby.com/TripNotes/RunningWater/index.htm

Enjoy,

     Dimitar

P.S. This also ties in with the invitation by Mr. Wheeler to speak at
SOMA in October. The topic is "Sierra Nevada". There I'll cover a lot
of detail and even try to entice some more Sonoma folks to drive to
the mountains for a foray or two. In reality the massif represents
several mountains into one -- all a World apart ecologically and
meteorologically. We'll have a lot to cover...

P.P.S. I'll stick to the boring taxonomy stuff on MushroomTalk, these
pages here are more "experience and mood" pages. Like what the hobby
means to most of us.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beautiful, Dimi! Talk about vicarious thrills...

Debbie
--- Dimitar Bojantchev <dimitar@...> wrote:

> Since you guys liked the previous pages and were so
> nice to me, let's
> do one more -- back in the West -- impressions from
> this weekend's
> hunting in the High Sierra.

Wonderful, Dimitar! We can hardly wait to see the whole presentation at SOMA in
October!!!!
Dorothy

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Dimitar Bojantchev
   To: SOMA@yahoogroups.com ; BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com ;
ffsc@googlegroups.com
   Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:54 PM
   Subject: [BAMS] The Sound of Running Water


   Since you guys liked the previous pages and were so nice to me, let's
   do one more -- back in the West -- impressions from this weekend's
   hunting in the High Sierra.

   Collecting by "The Sounds of Running Water" is a California theme
   that may not resonate much with those out of state, but most of you
   here we'll understand. Why looking at the clouds, enjoying the rain?
   After a summer of drought, high heat, and smell of burning woods,
   mushroom-starved Californians understand what it means to see a
   thunderstorm over the Sierras. And then appreciate its gifts.

   http://mushroomhobby.com/TripNotes/RunningWater/index.htm

   Enjoy,

   Dimitar

   P.S. This also ties in with the invitation by Mr. Wheeler to speak at
   SOMA in October. The topic is "Sierra Nevada". There I'll cover a lot
   of detail and even try to entice some more Sonoma folks to drive to
   the mountains for a foray or two. In reality the massif represents
   several mountains into one -- all a World apart ecologically and
   meteorologically. We'll have a lot to cover...

   P.P.S. I'll stick to the boring taxonomy stuff on MushroomTalk, these
   pages here are more "experience and mood" pages. Like what the hobby
   means to most of us.

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah and it's supposed to get more thunder claps next couple of months till the
beginning of winter!  Bolletes everywhere up there even though it is pretty dry
in some places. Just waiting September to November when it traditionally gets
more wet.  Usually I'm hunting along the 168 up in the elevations. 
Cheers,
Altan/Brent Tindall

--- On Mon, 8/18/08, Dimitar Bojantchev <dimitar@...> wrote:

From: Dimitar Bojantchev <dimitar@...>
Subject: [BAMS] The Sound of Running Water
To: SOMA@yahoogroups.com, BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com,
ffsc@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 4:54 PM






Since you guys liked the previous pages and were so nice to me, let's
do one more -- back in the West -- impressions from this weekend's
hunting in the High Sierra.

Collecting by "The Sounds of Running Water" is a California theme
that may not resonate much with those out of state, but most of you
here we'll understand. Why looking at the clouds, enjoying the rain?
After a summer of drought, high heat, and smell of burning woods,
mushroom-starved Californians understand what it means to see a
thunderstorm over the Sierras. And then appreciate its gifts.

http://mushroomhobb y.com/TripNotes/ RunningWater/ index.htm

Enjoy,

Dimitar

P.S. This also ties in with the invitation by Mr. Wheeler to speak at
SOMA in October. The topic is "Sierra Nevada". There I'll cover a lot
of detail and even try to entice some more Sonoma folks to drive to
the mountains for a foray or two. In reality the massif represents
several mountains into one -- all a World apart ecologically and
meteorologically. We'll have a lot to cover...

P.P.S. I'll stick to the boring taxonomy stuff on MushroomTalk, these
pages here are more "experience and mood" pages. Like what the hobby
means to most of us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If Larry took the "truffle" then perhaps it wasn't rotten. Many truffles and
false truffles have terrible (to most human noses) penetrating odors, and even
the choice ones can be an acquired odor/taste.

Or maybe it was indeed rotten and his desire to ID it was stronger than the
stench ...

Cheers from New Mexico where collecting is better than what you described for
Crested Butte, although a far cry from the boom year of 2006 when I was here
last.

Cheers! Steve

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, JMV wrote:

> Appetizing? No.  And I am wondering as well, someone here got sick from last
years crop (or so they say) so I am wondering if that could be it.  I am
constantly astounded by people who don't get that mushrooms spoil. just like
everything else.  One fellow at the fest here asked me why anyone would want to
eat a truffle because the one Larry had stunk so bad.  I actually had to inform
him that it was because it was mushy & rotten.
>
> Now to find  a scope.  If I do, i'll let everyone know.
>
>
> _______________________
> John-Marc Ventimiglia
> _______________________
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: debbie viess
>  To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:23 PM
>  Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot
>
>
>  That is bad news.
>
>  We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
>  giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a while
>  now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
>  decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw evidence of
>  this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles shown to
>  me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We have not
>  proven what actually causes it, but again bacterial
>  infection is suspected; it does happen pretty quickly
>  tho, so who knows?
>
>  Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a scope,
>  and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
>  appetizing...
>
>  Debbie V.
>
>  --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:
>
>  > For the past few years in Crested Butte Colorado, I
>  > am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin to get
>  > a grey watery interior and ferment? The beautiful
>  > apricot aroma turns into something closer to
>  > ammoniated windex. I have been told by some
>  > individuals at our latest festival that it is a
>  > bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and rotting
>  >
>  >
>  > Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________
>  > John-Marc Ventimiglia
>  > _______________________
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
>  > removed]
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

I can't shed any light on the cause, but I saw the same thing in Utah in August
2005.  I stopped near Navajo Lake along Highway 14 on my way back to San Diego
from Crested Butte.  I found B. edulis and chanterelles.  Some of the
chanterelles were fine, but some had turned grey and watery inside, and did not
smell or taste good.  I thought at the time that it might have been from
freezing and thawing repeatedly, but maybe not?  It was cold at night and warm
during the days up there in August.

Dave Grubb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With ecological changes related to changing weather
patterns negatively affecting plants and animals
everywhere, why would we think that mushrooms would
get a pass? It just strikes home particularly hard
when it affects some of our favorite edibles.

Debbie Viess
--- Dave Grubb <davidgrubb@...> wrote:

> I can't shed any light on the cause, but I saw the
> same thing in Utah in August 2005.

Steven,
Just talked to Larry about it last night.  Indeed you are right.  It was a
perfectly good fresh truffle after all.  He said that by nature this one was
extremely pungent and ultra potent and after infusing it in oil it would take on
a totally different aroma.

And the chanterelle rot - I was able to show him a few. He says it is a type of
Hypomyces that does not necessarilly coat the outside of the mushroom.
I am seeing nothing on line about this, but I am noticing more king boletes
being parasitized, and this chanterelle rot has been going on much more in the
last few years.

Very disturbing.


_______________________
John-Marc Ventimiglia
_______________________

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Steven A Trudell
   To: BAMS
   Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:03 AM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot & Truffle stench


   If Larry took the "truffle" then perhaps it wasn't rotten. Many truffles and
false truffles have terrible (to most human noses) penetrating odors, and even
the choice ones can be an acquired odor/taste.

   Or maybe it was indeed rotten and his desire to ID it was stronger than the
stench ...

   Cheers from New Mexico where collecting is better than what you described for
Crested Butte, although a far cry from the boom year of 2006 when I was here
last.

   Cheers! Steve

   On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, JMV wrote:

   > Appetizing? No. And I am wondering as well, someone here got sick from last
years crop (or so they say) so I am wondering if that could be it. I am
constantly astounded by people who don't get that mushrooms spoil. just like
everything else. One fellow at the fest here asked me why anyone would want to
eat a truffle because the one Larry had stunk so bad. I actually had to inform
him that it was because it was mushy & rotten.
   >
   > Now to find a scope. If I do, i'll let everyone know.
   >
   >
   > _______________________
   > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > _______________________
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: debbie viess
   > To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:23 PM
   > Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot
   >
   >
   > That is bad news.
   >
   > We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
   > giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a while
   > now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
   > decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw evidence of
   > this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles shown to
   > me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We have not
   > proven what actually causes it, but again bacterial
   > infection is suspected; it does happen pretty quickly
   > tho, so who knows?
   >
   > Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a scope,
   > and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
   > appetizing...
   >
   > Debbie V.
   >
   > --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:
   >
   > > For the past few years in Crested Butte Colorado, I
   > > am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin to get
   > > a grey watery interior and ferment? The beautiful
   > > apricot aroma turns into something closer to
   > > ammoniated windex. I have been told by some
   > > individuals at our latest festival that it is a
   > > bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and rotting
   > >
   > >
   > > Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
   > >
   > >
   > > _______________________
   > > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > > _______________________
   > >
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > > removed]
   > >
   > >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

and how was "hypomyces" determined? and by whom?

why would a hypomyces reproduce INSIDE of a highly
persistant fruit body, when all other known specimens
occur on the outside? As far as I know, hypomyces are
ONLY known to occur on boletes and a few ascos like
elven saddles, coral mushrooms, and the agaricales,
like amanitas and russulas and lactarius.

if i am wrong, my fellow taxonomists, please correct
me.

Debbie V.
ps here is a link to a nice hypomyces home page:

http://nt.ars-grin.gov/taxadescriptions/keys/frameGenusOverview.cfm?gen=Hypomyce\
s

--- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:

> Steven,
> Just talked to Larry about it last night.  Indeed
> you are right.  It was a perfectly good fresh
> truffle after all.  He said that by nature this one
> was extremely pungent and ultra potent and after
> infusing it in oil it would take on a totally
> different aroma.
>
> And the chanterelle rot - I was able to show him a
> few. He says it is a type of Hypomyces that does not
> necessarilly coat the outside of the mushroom.
> I am seeing nothing on line about this, but I am
> noticing more king boletes being parasitized, and
> this chanterelle rot has been going on much more in
> the last few years.
>
> Very disturbing.
>
>
> _______________________
> John-Marc Ventimiglia
> _______________________
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steven A Trudell
>   To: BAMS
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:03 AM
>   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot & Truffle
> stench
>
>
>   If Larry took the "truffle" then perhaps it wasn't
> rotten. Many truffles and false truffles have
> terrible (to most human noses) penetrating odors,
> and even the choice ones can be an acquired
> odor/taste.
>
>   Or maybe it was indeed rotten and his desire to ID
> it was stronger than the stench ...
>
>   Cheers from New Mexico where collecting is better
> than what you described for Crested Butte, although
> a far cry from the boom year of 2006 when I was here
> last.
>
>   Cheers! Steve
>
>   On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, JMV wrote:
>
>   > Appetizing? No. And I am wondering as well,
> someone here got sick from last years crop (or so
> they say) so I am wondering if that could be it. I
> am constantly astounded by people who don't get that
> mushrooms spoil. just like everything else. One
> fellow at the fest here asked me why anyone would
> want to eat a truffle because the one Larry had
> stunk so bad. I actually had to inform him that it
> was because it was mushy & rotten.
>   >
>   > Now to find a scope. If I do, i'll let everyone
> know.
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________
>   > John-Marc Ventimiglia
>   > _______________________
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: debbie viess
>   > To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:23 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot
>   >
>   >
>   > That is bad news.
>   >
>   > We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
>   > giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a
> while
>   > now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
>   > decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw
> evidence of
>   > this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles
> shown to
>   > me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We
> have not
>   > proven what actually causes it, but again
> bacterial
>   > infection is suspected; it does happen pretty
> quickly
>   > tho, so who knows?
>   >
>   > Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a
> scope,
>   > and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
>   > appetizing...
>   >
>   > Debbie V.
>   >
>   > --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:
>   >
>   > > For the past few years in Crested Butte
> Colorado, I
>   > > am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin
> to get
>   > > a grey watery interior and ferment? The
> beautiful
>   > > apricot aroma turns into something closer to
>   > > ammoniated windex. I have been told by some
>   > > individuals at our latest festival that it is
> a
>   > > bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and
> rotting
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > _______________________
>   > > John-Marc Ventimiglia
>   > > _______________________
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
>   > > removed]
>   > >
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>   >
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

I went hiking in Pt. Reyes this past weekend and spotted mushrooms all along the
trail. Not sure about the elevation, but I'd guess that I was above 1000 ft.
There was definitely some perspiration going on.

Debbie identified some of the fungi:

Amanita gemmata
Amanita francheti
Cantharellus californicus, with a touch of reddening disease
Hygrophoropsis aurantiaca
Boletus something or other

The pix are of pretty poor quality. Was so excited that I forgot to set the
camera on macro mode.

Happy trails!

Best,
Kitty






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kitty,
I could not find the pictures o which you are referring.  I would like to
see if they were what I saw last year up there this time.
Where might these pix be? :)
Jill

-----Original Message-----
From: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kitty chiu
Sent: 19 August 2008 07:00
To: bayareamushrooms@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BAMS] Report: Pt. Reyes, 17 Aug 2008

I went hiking in Pt. Reyes this past weekend and spotted mushrooms all along
the trail. Not sure about the elevation, but I'd guess that I was above 1000
ft. There was definitely some perspiration going on.

Debbie identified some of the fungi:

Amanita gemmata
Amanita francheti
Cantharellus californicus, with a touch of reddening disease
Hygrophoropsis aurantiaca
Boletus something or other

The pix are of pretty poor quality. Was so excited that I forgot to set the
camera on macro mode.

Happy trails!

Best,
Kitty






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

Visit our website at www.bayareamushrooms.org
Yahoo! Groups Links

I went to a dinner in Telluride and Larry Evans came with the famous
truffles. One with a chocolatey-caramel-vannillin aspect; another the
musky rotting earthiness you have been hearing so much about. He
thinks they can build a real commercial industry around restaurants
featuring the local truffle. We were going to slice some up and
infuse butter with it, but there were so many boletes to cook we
never got around to it.  Chanterelles are epic right now in this
area, the Western Slope, but otherwise not much diversity, just the
usual hawkwings and xerampelina.

Attached a photo of an epic hawkwing, bigger than your head (no
worms!), and chanterelles. Left side, Telluride (Lizard Head)
harvest, right side, Crested Butte.

More later after I get above 13,000 feet.




--
Hugh Livingston
El Mirador
491 Crescent St. #304
Oakland Calif 94610
(510) 205-HUGH
www.livingstonsound.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Correction.  I gave them to Roger to show Larry Evans, but it turns out he did
not actually see them.  One of them had some faint whitish thing on the cap, but
that is obviously not very determinant. Larry seemed to say he knew of such a
beast and that it results in a greyish soggy interior, and it matched what I
have seen, but not in a definitive way.

So, I am waiting for him to get back home so that he can point me to his
references, because I see nothing yet indicating anything concrete.


_______________________
John-Marc Ventimiglia
_______________________

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: debbie viess
   To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot & Truffle stench


   and how was "hypomyces" determined? and by whom?

   why would a hypomyces reproduce INSIDE of a highly
   persistant fruit body, when all other known specimens
   occur on the outside? As far as I know, hypomyces are
   ONLY known to occur on boletes and a few ascos like
   elven saddles, coral mushrooms, and the agaricales,
   like amanitas and russulas and lactarius.

   if i am wrong, my fellow taxonomists, please correct
   me.

   Debbie V.
   ps here is a link to a nice hypomyces home page:

  
http://nt.ars-grin.gov/taxadescriptions/keys/frameGenusOverview.cfm?gen=Hypomyce\
s

   --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:

   > Steven,
   > Just talked to Larry about it last night. Indeed
   > you are right. It was a perfectly good fresh
   > truffle after all. He said that by nature this one
   > was extremely pungent and ultra potent and after
   > infusing it in oil it would take on a totally
   > different aroma.
   >
   > And the chanterelle rot - I was able to show him a
   > few. He says it is a type of Hypomyces that does not
   > necessarilly coat the outside of the mushroom.
   > I am seeing nothing on line about this, but I am
   > noticing more king boletes being parasitized, and
   > this chanterelle rot has been going on much more in
   > the last few years.
   >
   > Very disturbing.
   >
   >
   > _______________________
   > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > _______________________
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Steven A Trudell
   > To: BAMS
   > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:03 AM
   > Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot & Truffle
   > stench
   >
   >
   > If Larry took the "truffle" then perhaps it wasn't
   > rotten. Many truffles and false truffles have
   > terrible (to most human noses) penetrating odors,
   > and even the choice ones can be an acquired
   > odor/taste.
   >
   > Or maybe it was indeed rotten and his desire to ID
   > it was stronger than the stench ...
   >
   > Cheers from New Mexico where collecting is better
   > than what you described for Crested Butte, although
   > a far cry from the boom year of 2006 when I was here
   > last.
   >
   > Cheers! Steve
   >
   > On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, JMV wrote:
   >
   > > Appetizing? No. And I am wondering as well,
   > someone here got sick from last years crop (or so
   > they say) so I am wondering if that could be it. I
   > am constantly astounded by people who don't get that
   > mushrooms spoil. just like everything else. One
   > fellow at the fest here asked me why anyone would
   > want to eat a truffle because the one Larry had
   > stunk so bad. I actually had to inform him that it
   > was because it was mushy & rotten.
   > >
   > > Now to find a scope. If I do, i'll let everyone
   > know.
   > >
   > >
   > > _______________________
   > > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > > _______________________
   > >
   > > ----- Original Message -----
   > > From: debbie viess
   > > To: BayAreaMushrooms@yahoogroups.com
   > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:23 PM
   > > Subject: Re: [BAMS] Chanterelle rot
   > >
   > >
   > > That is bad news.
   > >
   > > We have been seeing a "reddening disease" in our
   > > giant, aok dwelling golden chanterelles for a
   > while
   > > now, where the edges turn red-brown and start to
   > > decay. I was pretty sure that I also saw
   > evidence of
   > > this in a photo of some Illinois chanterelles
   > shown to
   > > me by Patrick Leacock at the Field Museum. We
   > have not
   > > proven what actually causes it, but again
   > bacterial
   > > infection is suspected; it does happen pretty
   > quickly
   > > tho, so who knows?
   > >
   > > Put some of that nasty liquid-center under a
   > scope,
   > > and see what pops out! Doesn't sound very
   > > appetizing...
   > >
   > > Debbie V.
   > >
   > > --- JMV <jmv@...> wrote:
   > >
   > > > For the past few years in Crested Butte
   > Colorado, I
   > > > am noticing fields of chanterelles that begin
   > to get
   > > > a grey watery interior and ferment? The
   > beautiful
   > > > apricot aroma turns into something closer to
   > > > ammoniated windex. I have been told by some
   > > > individuals at our latest festival that it is
   > a
   > > > bacteria rather than getting waterlogged and
   > rotting
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > Anyone have any more definitive info on that?
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > _______________________
   > > > John-Marc Ventimiglia
   > > > _______________________
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > > > removed]
   > > >
   > > >
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