Bedini_Monopole3 : Messages : 10323-10352 of 10352

It is going to be hard to tune with a 10K pot.

Try to get a 1k pot for tuning or use fixed value resistors.

Josh.

-----Original Message-----
From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:49 AM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much

I didn't want to take a picture before cleaning it up because it was so messy.
So I cleaned it up and putt in the grain of wheat bulb and tested again. Same
problems.
Then as I was adjusting the pot, one of the pins broke off. So I replaced it
with a spare 10k pot, and now it seems to be working as expected. RPM's are up
and amps are down.

I will attempt to tune it when I get a chance.

Doug

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...> wrote:
>
> It is not normal for the resistor to get hot. Could you please upload a photo
of your circuit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:01 PM
> To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
>
> OK.
> I cleaned up the bearing, and got the free spin time up to 8 minutes.
> My RPM's went from 100 to around 120.
> They still only vary by 1 or 2 rpm's as I adjust the pot. This seems like too
small a change in rpm's.
>
> I also noticed the resistor gets fairly hot. Is this normal?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > It sounds to me like the problem is with drag in the bearings. The factory
grease in the wheel bearings is too thick for our purposes. I would take apart
the axel and clean all of the grease out and replace it with a small amount of
the excel plus that came with the kit and put it all back together leaving the
bearings loose enough that you can hear them click as the wheel spins. This
should greatly reduce the friction and get your free spin up over 8 minutes.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:48 PM
> > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
> >
> >
> > To answer you questions...
> >
> > I bought the parts in a kit from Rick about a year ago, however I just got
around to building it recently.
> > I had the bulb in the circuit in some my previous attempts to get the thing
working, but it is not installed in this version.
> >
> > My free spin time is around 3 to 4 minute range.
> >
> > Thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > Your amperage numbers should be lower at that rpm.
> > >
> > > Could you please describe your coil, transistor and base resistor to us?
Also are you using a bulb in the trigger circuit and how long is the free spin
time of the wheel without the coil in place?
> > >
> > > These few additional pieces of information should give us a pretty good
indication of where the problem is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:57 PM
> > > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] rpm does not change much
> > >
> > > Hi all.
> > > I'm a newbie.
> > > I've built the SSG and am now trying to tune it.
> > > It has a 24 inch wheel with 16 magnets.  I'm also using A 12 volt power
supply instead of a charging battery.
> > > I get about 100 rpm's, drawing about .4 amps (measured with a digital
meter; analog is on order).
> > > As I adjust the pot the rpm's change by less than 1 rpm and the amps vary
between .39 and .40
> > >
> > > Are these reasonable numbers?
> > > I thought there would be more variation in these numbers as I adjust the
pot.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help / suggestions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> >
>

#10351

From: "first" <doug.saunderson@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:26 am
Subject: Re: rpm does not change much

dwwapm

Offline

I didn't want to take a picture before cleaning it up because it was so messy.
So I cleaned it up and putt in the grain of wheat bulb and tested again. Same
problems.
Then as I was adjusting the pot, one of the pins broke off. So I replaced it
with a spare 10k pot, and now it seems to be working as expected. RPM's are up
and amps are down.

I will attempt to tune it when I get a chance.

Doug

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...> wrote:
>
> It is not normal for the resistor to get hot. Could you please upload a photo
of your circuit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:01 PM
> To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
>
> OK.
> I cleaned up the bearing, and got the free spin time up to 8 minutes.
> My RPM's went from 100 to around 120.
> They still only vary by 1 or 2 rpm's as I adjust the pot. This seems like too
small a change in rpm's.
>
> I also noticed the resistor gets fairly hot. Is this normal?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > It sounds to me like the problem is with drag in the bearings. The factory
grease in the wheel bearings is too thick for our purposes. I would take apart
the axel and clean all of the grease out and replace it with a small amount of
the excel plus that came with the kit and put it all back together leaving the
bearings loose enough that you can hear them click as the wheel spins. This
should greatly reduce the friction and get your free spin up over 8 minutes.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:48 PM
> > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
> >
> >
> > To answer you questions...
> >
> > I bought the parts in a kit from Rick about a year ago, however I just got
around to building it recently.
> > I had the bulb in the circuit in some my previous attempts to get the thing
working, but it is not installed in this version.
> >
> > My free spin time is around 3 to 4 minute range.
> >
> > Thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > Your amperage numbers should be lower at that rpm.
> > >
> > > Could you please describe your coil, transistor and base resistor to us?
Also are you using a bulb in the trigger circuit and how long is the free spin
time of the wheel without the coil in place?
> > >
> > > These few additional pieces of information should give us a pretty good
indication of where the problem is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:57 PM
> > > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] rpm does not change much
> > >
> > > Hi all.
> > > I'm a newbie.
> > > I've built the SSG and am now trying to tune it.
> > > It has a 24 inch wheel with 16 magnets.  I'm also using A 12 volt power
supply instead of a charging battery.
> > > I get about 100 rpm's, drawing about .4 amps (measured with a digital
meter; analog is on order).
> > > As I adjust the pot the rpm's change by less than 1 rpm and the amps vary
between .39 and .40
> > >
> > > Are these reasonable numbers?
> > > I thought there would be more variation in these numbers as I adjust the
pot.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help / suggestions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> >
>

#10350

From: "Chris" <mumph99@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:08 am
Subject: Re: Completed Load Testing

chris_wing33

Offline

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <mumph99@...> wrote:
>
> Moderators,
>
> I have completed and submitted my latest test results, for your
> consideration.
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/files/Experimenters.\
> ..
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/files/Experimenters\
> %20File%20Section/Chris%20and%20Greg%20SSG/>
>
> Thanks for the time,
> Chris Wing
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#10349

From: "Chris" <mumph99@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

chris_wing33

Offline

Hi Tgerdes,

The answer is easy. 12.5 V / .175 A = 71 Ohms (approximately 70 Ohms).

Don't be stuck with a set charge/discharge time, it will skew your COP readings.
How do I know?

If you open the COP calculation spreadsheet, provided by the group, and plug in
some likely numbers and do some comparisons, you'll see some interesting things.

There are really only three variables to the equation; volts, amps and time.
Amps are going to be consistent anyway, so do a comparison between different
volt values (as you would get if you had a consistent charge/discharge time) and
compare that to different time values ( as you would get if you
charged/discharged to set termination voltages).

I don't want to spoil the end, so try it out. If it still doesn't make sense,
I'll explain.

Hope this helps,
Chris

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@...> wrote:
>
> I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries.  I have a 3.5 AH
batteries.  The C20 Rate is .175 amps.  What size of resistor do I need if I
have a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
>

#10348

From: "kelfeh" <kelfeh@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

kelfeh

Offline

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <mumph99@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh Yeah, forgot,
>
> Use a 4-5 Watt resistor. Or, if you have a bunch of 1/2 Watt resistors,
> use eight or ten. The less you use the hotter the circuit will be (yes!)
>
> Check out my photo
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/photos/album/1225999248/\
> pic/1062339129/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=\
> asc>   of one I built with four 200 Ohm resistors for a .25 amp draw
> (for 5 Ah battery). It gets hot. I built another circuit (also posted)
> with 8, 100 Ohm, 1/2 Watt, parallel and series combination. It still
> gets hot but hasn't failed in over 50 cycles.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries.  I have a
> 3.5 AH batteries.  The C20 Rate is .175 amps.  What size of resistor do
> I need if I have a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>yes there are many combinations possible.  Keep in mind the information I
previously posted is based on a battery chaged to 100% .  If your only charging
for a 12 hour cycle it will be unlikely you have a fully charged battery.  You
will have to dedermine how "charged" your battery is and comensate accordingly.

#10347

From: "kelfeh" <kelfeh@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

kelfeh

Offline

I did not calculate, but 7 watts is a safe value to use and they are readily
available.
to calculate W=A*V
                  0.175 * 12.2 = 2.135 watts as a minimum


--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Searson <msearson1@...> wrote:
>
> how did you calculate the 7watts ?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: kelfeh <kelfeh@...>
> To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, 21 November, 2009 17:04:12
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: What size of resistor do I use for
discharging?
>
>  
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries. I have a 3.5 AH
batteries. The C20 Rate is .175 amps. What size of resistor do I need if I have
a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
> >
>
> 12.2v/C20 in Amps = Resistance in Ohms
>
> 12.2/0.175=69. 7 Ohms.
>
> In a perfect world this would give you a 10 hr discharge to 50% capacity.
Sugjest a 7 Watt Resistor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#10346

From: Marcus Searson <msearson1@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:53 pm
Subject: Re: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

msearson1

Offline

how did you calculate the 7watts ?

________________________________
From: kelfeh <kelfeh@...>
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 November, 2009 17:04:12
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@ ...>
wrote:
>
> I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries. I have a 3.5 AH
batteries. The C20 Rate is .175 amps. What size of resistor do I need if I have
a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
>

12.2v/C20 in Amps = Resistance in Ohms

12.2/0.175=69. 7 Ohms.

In a perfect world this would give you a 10 hr discharge to 50% capacity.
Sugjest a 7 Watt Resistor.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10345

From: "Chris" <mumph99@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

chris_wing33

Offline

Oh Yeah, forgot,

Use a 4-5 Watt resistor. Or, if you have a bunch of 1/2 Watt resistors,
use eight or ten. The less you use the hotter the circuit will be (yes!)

Check out my photo
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/photos/album/1225999248/\
pic/1062339129/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=\
asc>   of one I built with four 200 Ohm resistors for a .25 amp draw
(for 5 Ah battery). It gets hot. I built another circuit (also posted)
with 8, 100 Ohm, 1/2 Watt, parallel and series combination. It still
gets hot but hasn't failed in over 50 cycles.

Chris

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@...>
wrote:
>
> I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries.  I have a
3.5 AH batteries.  The C20 Rate is .175 amps.  What size of resistor do
I need if I have a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10344

From: "trancedrum" <trancedrum@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:43 pm
Subject: How many feet of wire

trancedrum

Offline

Hi to all,
i will like to know how many feet of 4 strands magnetic wire #23 i need to fill
the classic 3"spool that Rick sell . Like in the 10 coiler of JB the spool are
full, i put 250 feet and is not enough so now i running out of wire and i will
like to now before winding the next coil.
I twist the wire whit the drill .Is there another system ?
And if you have to twist 300 o 350 feet of wire when you pull them the stretch
is probable no good,so how you find the best way to twist so many feet
correctly.
I twist them on the grass out side .
Am building the 10 coiler SG for charging big bank of battery to run a house.

I tray to find the answer in the messages but no luck, so i appreciate any help.

Thank you very much .

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#10343

From: "kelfeh" <kelfeh@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

kelfeh

Offline

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@...> wrote:
>
> I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries.  I have a 3.5 AH
batteries.  The C20 Rate is .175 amps.  What size of resistor do I need if I
have a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?
>

12.2v/C20 in Amps = Resistance in Ohms

12.2/0.175=69.7 Ohms.

In a perfect world this would give you a 10 hr discharge to 50% capacity. 
Sugjest a 7 Watt Resistor.

#10342

From: "tgerdes3609" <tgerdes3609@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:17 am
Subject: What size of resistor do I use for discharging?

tgerdes3609

Offline

I am ready to start charging and discharging the batteries.  I have a 3.5 AH
batteries.  The C20 Rate is .175 amps.  What size of resistor do I need if I
have a 12 hour charge/12 hour discharge cycle?

#10341

From: "mad659" <mad659@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: Grain of wheat

mad659

Offline

Thanks for the quick response.
Magnets are 3.6 spaces apart
Wheel diam. is actually 11.75" with the magnets
Freewheel is 4.5 mins.dual bearings, degreased and lubed with Tri-Flow
The primary battery is a new 4ah that was bought the same day as my charging
battery plus 1 additional battery for backup.All 3 batterries are the same.
Is there a way to check magnet strength?
How do you actually measure the freewheel time, do you just spin it by hand?
You asked if the coil was balanced, did you mean the wheel?

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, recordingstudio@... wrote:
>
>
>
> 1- voltage spikes incosistent may mean a few things:
>
>  magnet spacing magnet to magnet is off
>
> magnet to coil spacing is not consistent
>
> your ar not in a sweet spot it could be hovering on the edge of multiple
pulses and not fully triggering
>
>
>
> 2- your current seems hi for charging on that small of a wheel too much
current no radiant
>
> 3- you should be charging to 14.2 to 14.5 check your manufacturers spec's
>
> 4- what is your freewheel time
>
> 5- how well balanced is your coil
>
> 6-the grain of wheat bulb is a variable resistor. usually the bulb is barely
lit when you are tuned to a sweet spot, but it is not a hard and fast rule
>
> 7- is the battery new or old.
>
> 8-what are you running the primary with, if it is a battery is it fully
charged?
>
>
>
> Tom C
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mad659" <mad659@...>
> To: "Bedini Monopole3" <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:35:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Grain of wheat
>
> I have finished doing 8 cycles on a new 4ah battery. I have mixed results and
I am looking for suggestions.
> I have a 9" diam. plastic disk doing 291 rpm at 140ma.
> Using a Velleman handheld oscilloscope I got the sweet spot but the voltage
spikes are not consistent.
> My coil is a bifilar with aprox. 870 turns of #24 and #26 magnetic wire.
> My previous post was about having the magnets the wrong way but that was fixed
once i went to the larger 9" disk.
> The 25ma bulb was mounted yesterday but it has never turned on or flashed.
> I have 9 (double stacked magnets because of the unknown grade)magnets.
> The charging battery gets .o51ma using an analogue meter.
> The bearings were degreased and lubed with Tri Flow.
> Only once did the charging battery go up to 13.13 volts, other tests were
13.02 or less.
> Does this seem normal? Would the magnet strength have negative effect on the
results? Does the 25ma bulb have to turn on at some point?
> Sorry about all the questions it's just that I want to make sure that I have
everything set up right and not post some inconsistent results.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#10340

From: "John K." <john_koorn@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:02 pm
Subject: Re: 1 st SSG COP test

john_koorn

Offline

Marcus,

Charge your battery up higher 14.0 - 14.5 (check the battery specs). Apart from
that, great work.

John K.



________________________________
From: Marcus Volk <volk_marcus@...>
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 November, 2009 7:17:21 AM
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] 1 st  SSG COP test

Hello,


I finished the first COP test for the SSG. The measured input to the charging
battery was 0.024 amps , I don't know if this is too low. I have some
improvements to do, like magnet orientation+ balancing and bearings. But overall
the results look very good.
Could somebody take a look at the  results. In the files sections (experimenters
)  Marcus Volk SSG, and also in the photos sections under Marcus Volk Album.

I'm going to do the COP test again, with the proper adjustments.
Hoping to move on to the next level.

This is great.
Thanks to everybody who is making all of this possible.


Marcus Volk



       __________________________________________________________________
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail:
http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
__
Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7.
Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10339

From: Marcus Volk <volk_marcus@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:17 pm
Subject: 1 st SSG COP test

volk_marcus

Offline

Hello,


I finished the first COP test for the SSG. The measured input to the charging
battery was 0.024 amps , I don't know if this is too low. I have some
improvements to do, like magnet orientation+ balancing and bearings. But overall
the results look very good.
Could somebody take a look at the  results. In the files sections (experimenters
)  Marcus Volk SSG, and also in the photos sections under Marcus Volk Album.

I'm going to do the COP test again, with the proper adjustments.
Hoping to move on to the next level.

This is great.
Thanks to everybody who is making all of this possible.


Marcus Volk



       __________________________________________________________________
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail:
http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10338

From: "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:00 pm
Subject: RE: yahoo msging problem?

josh.gowen

Offline

These groups can be flaky sometimes. If you feel the post was important enough,
submit it again.

Thanks,

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: Sergio <wineandgravy@...>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:04 PM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] yahoo msging problem?



Josh,
I think some of the messages sent to the group have a tendency to get lost. I
replied to Guy's email about a handy link he mentioned, and that message never
saw the light of day. It was 2 days ago.
Sergio :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10337

From: Sergio <wineandgravy@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:05 pm
Subject: yahoo msging problem?

wineandgravy

Offline

Josh,
I think some of the messages sent to the group have a tendency to get lost. I
replied to Guy's email about a handy link he mentioned, and that message never
saw the light of day. It was 2 days ago.
Sergio :)

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10336

From: "kelfeh" <kelfeh@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:43 am
Subject: Tuning

kelfeh

Offline

I have been tuning my SSG for several weeks now without getting satisfactory
results.  I have noted some strange things however.  First let me give a breif
description of my settup. I have built the circuit with the available kit.  My
rotor is made of 5 pieces of 3/8 inch MDF laminated together to form a disk 47
mm thick by 280 mm diameter.  Shaft and bearings were robbed off a small electic
moter. My magnets are set into slots cut in the rotor N poles out.  The pot.
that came with the kit has a max resistance of 940 ohms.  Set at max resistance
my SSG spins at aprox 480 RPM and draws 65 mA , and I felt I could not propperly
tune in this range so I removed the 100 Ohm resistor and added a 680 Ohm
resistor.  At Max resistance ( so 680 + 940 = 1620 Ohms) my rotor starts and
accelerates to 300 RPM and draws 55 mA.  Within this resistance range I can tune
to between 300 and 520 RPM and 55 to 90 mA.

The "strange things" I mentioned are in relation to the operating frequency of
the coil.  Please correct me if I am wrong concerning my observations.  Using a
simple multi-meter with frequency measuring function I have noted the following.

At only a select few resistance settings ( and after RPM has stabilized ) will
the Hz of the trigger coil match the Hz of the power coil.

The slower the RPM the higher the frequency

The higher the frequency the better the charge rate ( as long as trigger Hz =
power Hz )

Matching frequency ranges in my settup are from 141 Hz at 517 RPM 72 mA draw to
                       482 Hz at 0 RPM ( self occilating ) 73.5 mA draw and by
far the best charge
                       rate.  Note: I am charging a 5.0 Amp. Hr. SLA.

What Frequency range should I be in?  Are we permitted to run the SSG and post
charging results in the self occilating mode? Any help with this would be
greatly appreciatied.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (25)

#10335

From: "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:01 pm
Subject: RE: Re: 10 coiler cost going to $4000 in a few days; and Pictures

josh.gowen

Offline

Rick,

I concur with what Jean-Daniel said below, and with the way he said it.

Thanks,

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: jdionico <jdcusin@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:41 PM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: 10 coiler cost going to $4000 in a few days; and
Pictures

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your clear explanation. I appreciate that it is hard to have a good
picture of the total costs before you start the R&D. It seems that you have
found a way to innovate on the design making it unnecessary to complicate the
structure and increase the cost. I'm happy with that and don't have an
expectation that you ship the auto-adjust with the order.

In any case, I would not ever want you or John B. to incur a loss on any of my
orders.

Thanks for the quick response.

Jean-Daniel

PS: BTW, was there ever a CD made for the Window Motor "A" kit? I could use the
guidance such a CD would bring, judging from the usefulness of the CD you
created for the SSG kit.


--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "rickfriedrich" <rickfriedrich@...>
wrote:
>
> Jean,
>
> If that is what you were/are expecting then we will add that to your order for
a loss. We found that it cost us that much more to add it to the final system.
And that includes shipping internationally. I took down that statement soon
after I began selling it. It is a useful add-on. Initially I expected the
unscrewing of the coil mounts to be much harder (based off of John's 10 coiler
design), but with the final design I can adjust all the coils, even while it is
running within 1 minute. This was even with the circuits mounted. So I didn't
think it was a fundamentally important feature considering how easy it was to
mount. It didn't take hours to adjust, but rather minutes due to the mounting
features and the way the rotor is made (which will be disclosed more fully
shortly). With the motor running I could see the difference in the rpm, charging
rate, and amp draw with each coil adjustment.
>
> As for the ideal gaps, we made the system with a 1" gap adjustment and we have
determined the optimum gapping for this system. However, we are planning to
provide a variety of rotors for this 10 coiler and thus gapping will be
different. Full instructions will be provided with the kit covering these
things.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "jdionico" <jdcusin@> wrote:
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > When you introduced the 10 coiler on Sept 15th, and specified an early bird
pricing of $3500, you wrote:
> > "It will have a special mechanism to change the gap of all 10 coils at once
for proper timing and saving of countless hours." I saw this as a great
innovation. I ordered early to support the R&D effort.
> >
> > If I understand your response to Ian correctly, this gap adjustment
mechanism is now optional for $600 extra.  I'm disappointed. What is the impact
of not being able to adjust the gap equally across all coils on the efficiency
or performance of the unit?  Have you determined an optimum gap that makes it
unnecessary to do gap adjustments?
> >
> > Jean-Daniel
> >
> >

#10334

From: "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Re: rpm does not change much

josh.gowen

Offline

It is not normal for the resistor to get hot. Could you please upload a photo of
your circuit?

Thanks,

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:01 PM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much

OK.
I cleaned up the bearing, and got the free spin time up to 8 minutes.
My RPM's went from 100 to around 120.
They still only vary by 1 or 2 rpm's as I adjust the pot. This seems like too
small a change in rpm's.

I also noticed the resistor gets fairly hot. Is this normal?


Doug



--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...> wrote:
>
> Doug,
>
> It sounds to me like the problem is with drag in the bearings. The factory
grease in the wheel bearings is too thick for our purposes. I would take apart
the axel and clean all of the grease out and replace it with a small amount of
the excel plus that came with the kit and put it all back together leaving the
bearings loose enough that you can hear them click as the wheel spins. This
should greatly reduce the friction and get your free spin up over 8 minutes.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:48 PM
> To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
>
>
> To answer you questions...
>
> I bought the parts in a kit from Rick about a year ago, however I just got
around to building it recently.
> I had the bulb in the circuit in some my previous attempts to get the thing
working, but it is not installed in this version.
>
> My free spin time is around 3 to 4 minute range.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Doug
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Your amperage numbers should be lower at that rpm.
> >
> > Could you please describe your coil, transistor and base resistor to us?
Also are you using a bulb in the trigger circuit and how long is the free spin
time of the wheel without the coil in place?
> >
> > These few additional pieces of information should give us a pretty good
indication of where the problem is.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:57 PM
> > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] rpm does not change much
> >
> > Hi all.
> > I'm a newbie.
> > I've built the SSG and am now trying to tune it.
> > It has a 24 inch wheel with 16 magnets.  I'm also using A 12 volt power
supply instead of a charging battery.
> > I get about 100 rpm's, drawing about .4 amps (measured with a digital meter;
analog is on order).
> > As I adjust the pot the rpm's change by less than 1 rpm and the amps vary
between .39 and .40
> >
> > Are these reasonable numbers?
> > I thought there would be more variation in these numbers as I adjust the
pot.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help / suggestions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doug
> >
>

#10333

From: "jdionico" <jdcusin@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: 10 coiler cost going to $4000 in a few days; and Pictures

jdionico

Offline

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your clear explanation. I appreciate that it is hard to have a good
picture of the total costs before you start the R&D. It seems that you have
found a way to innovate on the design making it unnecessary to complicate the
structure and increase the cost. I'm happy with that and don't have an
expectation that you ship the auto-adjust with the order.

In any case, I would not ever want you or John B. to incur a loss on any of my
orders.

Thanks for the quick response.

Jean-Daniel

PS: BTW, was there ever a CD made for the Window Motor "A" kit? I could use the
guidance such a CD would bring, judging from the usefulness of the CD you
created for the SSG kit.


--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "rickfriedrich" <rickfriedrich@...>
wrote:
>
> Jean,
>
> If that is what you were/are expecting then we will add that to your order for
a loss. We found that it cost us that much more to add it to the final system.
And that includes shipping internationally. I took down that statement soon
after I began selling it. It is a useful add-on. Initially I expected the
unscrewing of the coil mounts to be much harder (based off of John's 10 coiler
design), but with the final design I can adjust all the coils, even while it is
running within 1 minute. This was even with the circuits mounted. So I didn't
think it was a fundamentally important feature considering how easy it was to
mount. It didn't take hours to adjust, but rather minutes due to the mounting
features and the way the rotor is made (which will be disclosed more fully
shortly). With the motor running I could see the difference in the rpm, charging
rate, and amp draw with each coil adjustment.
>
> As for the ideal gaps, we made the system with a 1" gap adjustment and we have
determined the optimum gapping for this system. However, we are planning to
provide a variety of rotors for this 10 coiler and thus gapping will be
different. Full instructions will be provided with the kit covering these
things.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "jdionico" <jdcusin@> wrote:
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > When you introduced the 10 coiler on Sept 15th, and specified an early bird
pricing of $3500, you wrote:
> > "It will have a special mechanism to change the gap of all 10 coils at once
for proper timing and saving of countless hours." I saw this as a great
innovation. I ordered early to support the R&D effort.
> >
> > If I understand your response to Ian correctly, this gap adjustment
mechanism is now optional for $600 extra.  I'm disappointed. What is the impact
of not being able to adjust the gap equally across all coils on the efficiency
or performance of the unit?  Have you determined an optimum gap that makes it
unnecessary to do gap adjustments?
> >
> > Jean-Daniel
> >
> >

#10332

From: "first" <doug.saunderson@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: rpm does not change much

dwwapm

Offline

OK.
I cleaned up the bearing, and got the free spin time up to 8 minutes.
My RPM's went from 100 to around 120.
They still only vary by 1 or 2 rpm's as I adjust the pot. This seems like too
small a change in rpm's.

I also noticed the resistor gets fairly hot. Is this normal?


Doug



--- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...> wrote:
>
> Doug,
>
> It sounds to me like the problem is with drag in the bearings. The factory
grease in the wheel bearings is too thick for our purposes. I would take apart
the axel and clean all of the grease out and replace it with a small amount of
the excel plus that came with the kit and put it all back together leaving the
bearings loose enough that you can hear them click as the wheel spins. This
should greatly reduce the friction and get your free spin up over 8 minutes.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: first <doug.saunderson@...>
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:48 PM
> To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: rpm does not change much
>
>
> To answer you questions...
>
> I bought the parts in a kit from Rick about a year ago, however I just got
around to building it recently.
> I had the bulb in the circuit in some my previous attempts to get the thing
working, but it is not installed in this version.
>
> My free spin time is around 3 to 4 minute range.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Doug
>
>
> --- In Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Your amperage numbers should be lower at that rpm.
> >
> > Could you please describe your coil, transistor and base resistor to us?
Also are you using a bulb in the trigger circuit and how long is the free spin
time of the wheel without the coil in place?
> >
> > These few additional pieces of information should give us a pretty good
indication of where the problem is.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: first <doug.saunderson@>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:57 PM
> > To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] rpm does not change much
> >
> > Hi all.
> > I'm a newbie.
> > I've built the SSG and am now trying to tune it.
> > It has a 24 inch wheel with 16 magnets.  I'm also using A 12 volt power
supply instead of a charging battery.
> > I get about 100 rpm's, drawing about .4 amps (measured with a digital meter;
analog is on order).
> > As I adjust the pot the rpm's change by less than 1 rpm and the amps vary
between .39 and .40
> >
> > Are these reasonable numbers?
> > I thought there would be more variation in these numbers as I adjust the
pot.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help / suggestions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doug
> >
>

#10331

From: recordingstudio@...
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: Grain of wheat

tom_chlds

Offline

1- voltage spikes incosistent may mean a few things:

 magnet spacing magnet to magnet is off

magnet to coil spacing is not consistent

your ar not in a sweet spot it could be hovering on the edge of multiple pulses
and not fully triggering



2- your current seems hi for charging on that small of a wheel too much current
no radiant

3- you should be charging to 14.2 to 14.5 check your manufacturers spec's

4- what is your freewheel time

5- how well balanced is your coil

6-the grain of wheat bulb is a variable resistor. usually the bulb is barely lit
when you are tuned to a sweet spot, but it is not a hard and fast rule

7- is the battery new or old.

8-what are you running the primary with, if it is a battery is it fully charged?



Tom C






----- Original Message -----
From: "mad659" <mad659@...>
To: "Bedini Monopole3" <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:35:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Grain of wheat

I have finished doing 8 cycles on a new 4ah battery. I have mixed results and I
am looking for suggestions.
I have a 9" diam. plastic disk doing 291 rpm at 140ma.
Using a Velleman handheld oscilloscope I got the sweet spot but the voltage
spikes are not consistent.
My coil is a bifilar with aprox. 870 turns of #24 and #26 magnetic wire.
My previous post was about having the magnets the wrong way but that was fixed
once i went to the larger 9" disk.
The 25ma bulb was mounted yesterday but it has never turned on or flashed.
I have 9 (double stacked magnets because of the unknown grade)magnets.
The charging battery gets .o51ma using an analogue meter.
The bearings were degreased and lubed with Tri Flow.
Only once did the charging battery go up to 13.13 volts, other tests were 13.02
or less.
Does this seem normal? Would the magnet strength have negative effect on the
results? Does the 25ma bulb have to turn on at some point?
Sorry about all the questions it's just that I want to make sure that I have
everything set up right and not post some inconsistent results.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#10330

From: "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:00 pm
Subject: RE: fuel cell as a battery

josh.gowen

Offline

Not really. I do not think that it will work in the manner that you are
suggesting. At any rate this is outside of the scope for this group.

Once you take the SSG to it's highest level you will find that there is plenty
of energy there, and the added apparatus you described would be unnessecary.

Thanks,

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: eric <ericvalttila@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:55 AM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com <Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] fuel cell as a battery

hi ime new here Just got the Bearden and Bedini book today and have been reading
lots. I read that hydrogen is created in the battery when it resonates, and
thats why it could blow up. What if you used a hydrogen fuel cell, with hydrogen
being fed through it to create the electricity and charging it at the same time.
Does this make any scene.

Eric

#10329

From: "eric" <ericvalttila@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:56 am
Subject: fuel cell as a battery

ericvalttila

Offline

hi ime new here Just got the Bearden and Bedini book today and have been reading
lots. I read that hydrogen is created in the battery when it resonates, and
thats why it could blow up. What if you used a hydrogen fuel cell, with hydrogen
being fed through it to create the electricity and charging it at the same time.
Does this make any scene.

Eric

#10328

From: "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:11 am
Subject: RE: Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

josh.gowen

Offline

Yes, you are right. At the top of page 7 it says "usually in the range
of 1-6Mhz"

Sorry bout that.

Josh

________________________________

From: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chisel Black
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:02 PM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM
rate?

I think the FEG book (if that is the book you are referring to) says
the resonant frequency of most lead acid batteries is between 2 and
5khz.

Josh, are you sure about resonant frequency in kHz? I found large LAB
resonating at 200kHz while charged with solid state, and I thought they
resonate higher, in low MHz range.

Regards
Vtech

________________________________
From: Josh Gowen <jgowen@...
<mailto:jgowen%40networkdirections.biz> >
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Bedini_Monopole3%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 6:15:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM
rate?

With most if the bike wheels I have checked, the spokes are usually non
magnetic. If they are magnetic, then that is ok. Ideally we would build
the whole thing out of non magnetic materials, but small amounts
shouldn't hurt too much (screws, etc) Just make sure that most of the
rotor and none of the frame are ferrous.

I think the FEG book (if that is the book you are referring to) says the
resonant frequency of most lead acid batteries is between 2 and 5khz.
Don't be too worried about that (frequency) right now, just keep it in
the back of your mind.

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: timeframedssg <timeframedssg@ yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:17 PM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com <Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups.
com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

Even though the wheel has 2+ inches of rubber? Since I could feel no
attraction between the magnet and wheel, I figured I would be ok using
that wheel.

But I figured that could be at issue, so I found (an aluminum) bike
wheel around (which I which I had found in the first place); just
awaiting my magnet order to proceed with constructing a new wheel using
it. I'm assuming that the *spokes* being ferrous is ok? :)

I seem to remember 50Hz somewhere (the book?), and with the MPMs I was
getting, it was under that.

Thanks.

-gary

--- In Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com, "Josh Gowen" <jgowen@...>
wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> Any ferrous metal will interfere with the charging. I would loose the
wheelbarrow wheel in favor of the bike wheel (assuming it's aluminum or
plastic).
>
> Josh

__________________________________________________________
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
<http://ca.answers.yahoo.com>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (8)

#10327

From: Guy Bradley <timaleric@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:37 am
Subject: Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

timaleric

Offline

Here is the standard 4-band resistor color code chart. We have this chart on the
back of our business cards, use this form to request them at no cost. A handy
reference perfect for students and anyone learning electronics.

________________________________
From: Guy Bradley <timaleric@...>
To: Bedini_Monopole3@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 4:00:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Bedini_Monopole3] What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

http://www.allspect rum.com/store/ resistor- color-code- chart-all- spectrum-
electronics. php?osCsid= c7a520cedc8be137 00cc16820db1d7bc

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Josh Gowen <jgowen@networkdirec tions.biz>
To: Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 8:56:08 AM
Subject: RE: [Bedini_Monopole3] What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

Gary,

Any ferrous metal will interfere with the charging. I would loose the
wheelbarrow wheel in favor of the bike wheel (assuming it's aluminum or
plastic).

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: timeframedssg <timeframedssg@ yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:48 AM
To: Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com <Bedini_Monopole3@ yahoogroups. com>
Subject: [Bedini_Monopole3] What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

I've got my first SSG up and running, tuned, and 1-Ohm tested. (I uploaded a
picture, but it has to be moderated :)

I'm using a wheelbarrow wheel (the rubber is thick enough to prevent the steel
wheel from effecting the magnets, as far as I can tell) with 8 magnets (from the
kit).

RPMs were pretty bad...until I put in some librilon; that did the trick.

It definitely has some "gear shifting" characteristics. If I just gently spin
it, it'll settle in the 170's RPM; if I "help" it beyond a certain point, it
settles in at a little over 330 RPMs. Perhaps the mass of the wheel has
something to do with that?

During a charging run, I had it running at a consistent 330+ RPM / 2650MPM.
The thing is, it's not appreciably charging the secondary battery.

What MPM rate is typically necessary to achieve the expected charging behavior?

I designed my rig to be easily reconfigured (see pic); I've already set it up
with a bicycle wheel, and am awaiting my magnets to finish that wheel; I imagine
I'm going to get a whole heck of a lot more MPMs out of that wheel. :)

-gary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (8)

#10326

From: "mad659" <mad659@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:35 am
Subject: Grain of wheat

mad659

Offline

I have finished doing 8 cycles on a new 4ah battery. I have mixed results and I
am looking for suggestions.
I have a 9" diam. plastic disk doing 291 rpm at 140ma.
Using a Velleman handheld oscilloscope I got the sweet spot but the voltage
spikes are not consistent.
My coil is a bifilar with aprox. 870 turns of #24 and #26 magnetic wire.
My previous post was about having the magnets the wrong way but that was fixed
once i went to the larger 9" disk.
The 25ma bulb was mounted yesterday but it has never turned on or flashed.
I have 9 (double stacked magnets because of the unknown grade)magnets.
The charging battery gets .o51ma using an analogue meter.
The bearings were degreased and lubed with Tri Flow.
Only once did the charging battery go up to 13.13 volts, other tests were 13.02
or less.
Does this seem normal? Would the magnet strength have negative effect on the
results? Does the 25ma bulb have to turn on at some point?
Sorry about all the questions it's just that I want to make sure that I have
everything set up right and not post some inconsistent results.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#10325

From: Guy Bradley <timaleric@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: What is the expected/necessary MPM rate?

timaleric

Offline