Sustainability? I have been a bit amazed by various members suggesting to dump concerns about sustainability and harvest while you can and think about solutions if it appear to go wrong. For Cordyceps, this approach may work as at some point the economics will prevent people from collecting the little that is left. But what is the role of cordyceps, the sphinx moth and the caterpillars in the alpine ecology. What effects may a large reduction in the numbers of cordyceps fungi have? I tend to agree that it would most likely be limited.    However, it may be quite different for other species. Picrorizha seems a lot easier to collect ( I admit to know little about the species) and thus a lot easier to wipe out. Once all the larger plants have been collected in an area, may it dissapear totally due to some severe weather conditions? Who knows? And what would be the effect of the disappearance of one species on other species? We all know what the effect of killing off most of the wild dogs in Bhutanin the 1980's had on the wild boar population and consequently on crop damage for farmers. Be cautious and especially when you are not sure of the role of the concerned species in the whole ecosystem, observe and study. However, trying to grow certain plants artificially is an option that could probably much easier be pursued. Cheers, Piet --- On Tue, 6/3/08, purna chhetri <purnab_2000@...> wrote: From: purna chhetri <purnab_2000@...> Subject: [Bhutan-eForest] Cordyceps in Eastern Himalaya Alpine To: Bhutan-eForest@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 6:31 PM Dear senior and friends I had been very passive member of the forum for sometimes. I am just reading your valauble concerns on various issues in natural resources management.  I think the natural resources is essentail conflict management and analysis characterised by socio-economic, environmetal and plotical value judgement. I see there is always a conflict of judgement with out proper understanding of nature etc. I had an opportunity to visit one of the Cordecps growing alpine in the east in September 2007 with Dr. Lungten leading the team. Our aim was to esablished a permanent monitoring ecological plots with park management ( bumdelling) in Singphel area.   I have seen great natural and social Phenomena happening at some 5000 above in our landscape. socailly and economically speaking regarding Cordeceps there are tri-interest groups in collections ( 1. the people who are given legal rights, 2. Down streams communities without permit and 3. People across the border). Now challage for us is to managed these groups.   We still dont know much about the ecology of the fungus and caterpillar, what factors are really responsible for its propuse regeneration etc. but im certain with dedication to ecology we can find something and which can be helpful in management prescription.   At the landscape level, our Glaciers are melting at great speed. We had to climb about 5200 masl ( according to my altimeter) and pass is called Garula , during the course of about 2-3 hours of our climbing i could hear as many as 6-7 avalanches, this i could hear on the Lhuntse side of the Mountain. As soon as we crossed Garula, we came to a desert like situation. Almost all the permanent ice were gone..what we see are rocks. I found the answer why that bomdelling flood plains with nice rice fields were flooded in recent times.    IN THIS CAE I CONCLUDED THAT, if we donot use things and they might just go away with out our proper understanding like the glaciers. I think the concern about sustainability will be real of we make best uses of natural resources rather than restricting its usage. I think it is high time we table out things and work for real conservation ( NO plicing but Partnership)   Beside Cordyceps there several other high value medicianl plants in these alpine areas, one is for sure Picorhiza ( spelling!!) and i was told there are many more. So lets explore more for those rather than sitting and thinking about sustainbility.   Best regards   Purna B.Chhetri Research Fellow Institute of Silviculture BOKU PeterjordanStrasse, 82 Wein, 1190 Austria email: purna.chhetri@...         Phuntsho Namgyel <phuntshonamgyel2001@...> wrote: Dear Dr. Dhital, You asked me a few questions. I am sorry for the delay in writing you back. Anyway, postings by Dr. Thinley, Peter, and others have largely answered your questions, but still I will add my perspective to your questions on 'resource base' and 'sustainability' issues of a plant- based resource in general, and Cordyceps in particular. I have over the recent years come to believe that we are sometimes too preoccupied with the concept of sustainable management for anything and everything connected to the use of natural resources. I feel that this preoccupation is not necessary, and that it in fact is ecologically, economically and socially detrimental when viewed out of context. Our overly environmental concern immobilizes us to formulate policies which otherwise our poor rural people could value and be blessed by the rich biodiversity around them, but instead the rich bio-diversity oftentimes brings them the curse. Cordyceps now a 'gem' was a curse to the yak herders prior 2004 when it was illegal to pick it. Since the public policy banned the picking of Cordyceps prior 2008, the law enforcement (forest and park) personnel as part of their lawful duty policed and fined the local people caught with the illegal possession of Cordyceps. The local people found themselves confused with the public policy formulated by their Government and felt unnecessarily harassed by the law. The public policy ban on Cordyceps was due to one underlying assumption amongst the natural resource policy makers, managers and researchers that Cordyceps was a 'rare species' which needed the state protection, and if people extracted it, it would be wiped out of the face of the earth. The current commercial demand for Cordyceps is reported to have started since 1980s, and the demand is rising. Cordyceps collection for Chinese emperors and nobility has been there hundreds of years ago. Even during then, Cordyceps was considered a rare product, but now on reflection, this rarity may not have been due to ecological rarity but difficulty of locating it - a needle in a haystack. Like any plant-based product, there is a cycle of good and bad production year. Not realizing this, resource managers and researchers are quick to jump at a bad production year as over- exploitation of the resource base. Cordyceps is a fungus parasiting on caterpillars. One single Cordyceps may produce thousands of spores, and the technology employed in the extraction of it is hand picking in a vast forbidding alpine wilderness, there is no way Cordyceps collectors can sweep clean the alpine bushes and floor like the giant fishing nets employed by big fishing trawlers in the west do to fishes in the sea. There is a theory even proposed that since commercial extraction of Cordyceps, the humans have become important agent of its dispersal in addition to wind and water. Cordyceps picking should not be a matter of concern from the point of sustainable management, but like Peter said, we should rather try to understand more about the population dynamics of the caterpillar (moth). I would guess the caterpillar population dynamics would not be influenced strongly by the Cordyceps collectors as infection of caterpillar by the fungus is reported to be in the Sept/Oct when the picking would have ended by July. I am going on and on. I better end this posting. Before I do, I just want to mention a few theories which might be useful in the discussion on sustainable management. Firstly, economic extinction precedes ecological extinction which means that for example if the population base of Cordyceps declined considerably, there would be few collectors venturing out since it does not pay them to invest their time. Secondly, the history shows, the demand for a natural product is not guaranteed because of domestication and synthetic production of the natural product e.g. American ginseng; natural rubber; and chi-cle (chewing gum). The isolation and culture of Cordyceps in laboratory have been successful since early 1980s. Much of Cordyceps products in the west is laboratory produced. Thirdly, NTFP is a sub-set of biodiversity people value, and provides an incentive for people to take responsibility for its proper upkeep. Finally, there are a lot of safety checks in the Bhutanese context viz. small population and large resource base. I hope this posting today coming on such an important day as the Social Forestry Day in our country shall generate more discussion. Warmest regards Phuntsho Namgyel ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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