Hi all,

First pairing of the season yesterday - found a couple of Swallow Prominent
(Pheosia tremula) moths had emerged and were in cop. I wanted to rear a few
larvae to hopefully photograph the green form of the larvae (picture of the
brown form is in the Photo album section) so left her in a box to lay a few
eggs. It is incredible how fast some of these moths lay their eggs - she
must have laid 100 eggs in a couple of hours so will have to pass some on to
friends as I dont want to have to look after that many!

Regards

Reg Fry N.E. Essex

--- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@b...> wrote:
> Hi Nigel
> Thanks for the tips on cages but do you have any contacts for the 1
mm plastic? Tried locally but couldn't get any this thin.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63
>

Paul,

I got mine from the Nature Centre I used to help out. They had piles
of sheets about 18" square but I dont know where they got them from.
I never found them to be brittle, they would easily roll up to a
cylinder much less than the 8" or so I needed without breaking. Maybe
they were more "platicised" (or whatever the word is) than modern
perspex.

Regards,
Nigel.

Paul Talbot wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel
> Thanks for the tips on cages but do you have any contacts for the 1 mm
plastic? Tried locally but couldn't get any this thin.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "md_hunteruk" <njstone@...>
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:18 PM
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Breeding Cages
>> > itself) and stood upright in this was a cylinder of clear perspex.
> > I think it was about 1mm thick, cut to length so when rolled up and
> > glued/stapled at the edge it fitted snuggly into the pot holder.
> >
Perspex is brittle. It'd snap, even at 1mm thick.
Old OHP's a good cheap source of flexible transparent plastic, but only
A4.
HTH
Malcolm

Hi Paul,

Don't get me wrong but Ukmoths is the best website about moths I
know! Before I said that the caterpillar of Gastropacha quercifolia
(taken by Nick) was in my opinion Poecilocampa populi. I was wrong
at the moment I have found quercifolia larvae which are completely
similar tot the one on UKmoths. I never mentioned tremulifolia and
ilicifolia before, I did not know these species well, but last year
I have found both ofthem (ilicicolia oin French and tremulifolia in
Germany). I really believe the one on UKmoths is tremulifolia! If
you want to see this species yourself please contact me offline, if
the eggs are fertilized (?) I will be pleased to send you some
larvae by post! Paul maybe it is a good idea to show Ian the picture
I have uploaded, as I have bred this one fro,m a caterpillar the ID
is certainly correct.

Best regards,


Jeroen Voogd
The Netherlands


P.S. I will publish details about breeding tremulifolia soon!


--- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@b...> wrote:
> Hi Jeroen
> I know you know the difference but I certainly didn't! I know you
have mentioned before on UK moths that you thought the image was
incorrectly named on Ian' site .These are two species that I am
unlikely to see unless I have a go at breeding them as you have.
>
> I put the image links up for other people to look at rather than
you. The images of the pinned specimens are very good but do not
show the beauty of the live moth. This is one of the reason I like
Ian's site so much, its much nicer to see a live body rather than a
corpse :-))
>
> Keep those tips and hints coming for us newcomers.
>
> Paul Talbot
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@B...>
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 6:07 PM
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides
>
>
> > Hi Paul/All,
> >
> >
> > I know the differences between ilicifolia and tremulifolia. The
eggs
> > and larvae look quite different, as I have bred tremulifolia I
am
> > 100 % sure the picture I have uploaded is indeed tremulifolia.
> > However in the literature and on the Internet I cannot find a
> > picture like the one on UKmoths of ilicifolia. I do find a lot
of
> > pictures of tremulifolia which are quite similar to the one on
> > UKmoths. So I believe the ID is wrong, I know that in French
both
> > species occur, but tremulifolia is much more common than
ilicifolia.
> > I still believe the picture on UKmoths is not correctly ID'ed
and it
> > is tremulifolia instead of ilicifolia!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Jeroen Voogd
> > The Netherlands
> >
> >
> >       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jeroen
I know you know the difference but I certainly didn't! I know you have mentioned
before on UK moths that you thought the image was incorrectly named on Ian' site
.These are two species that I am unlikely to see unless I have a go at breeding
them as you have.

I put the image links up for other people to look at rather than you. The images
of the pinned specimens are very good but do not show the beauty of the live
moth. This is one of the reason I like Ian's site so much, its much nicer to see
a live body rather than a corpse :-))

Keep those tips and hints coming for us newcomers.

Paul Talbot




----- Original Message -----
From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 6:07 PM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides


> Hi Paul/All,
>
>
> I know the differences between ilicifolia and tremulifolia. The eggs
> and larvae look quite different, as I have bred tremulifolia I am
> 100 % sure the picture I have uploaded is indeed tremulifolia.
> However in the literature and on the Internet I cannot find a
> picture like the one on UKmoths of ilicifolia. I do find a lot of
> pictures of tremulifolia which are quite similar to the one on
> UKmoths. So I believe the ID is wrong, I know that in French both
> species occur, but tremulifolia is much more common than ilicifolia.
> I still believe the picture on UKmoths is not correctly ID'ed and it
> is tremulifolia instead of ilicifolia!
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Jeroen Voogd
> The Netherlands
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul/All,


I know the differences between ilicifolia and tremulifolia. The eggs
and larvae look quite different, as I have bred tremulifolia I am
100 % sure the picture I have uploaded is indeed tremulifolia.
However in the literature and on the Internet I cannot find a
picture like the one on UKmoths of ilicifolia. I do find a lot of
pictures of tremulifolia which are quite similar to the one on
UKmoths. So I believe the ID is wrong, I know that in French both
species occur, but tremulifolia is much more common than ilicifolia.
I still believe the picture on UKmoths is not correctly ID'ed and it
is tremulifolia instead of ilicifolia!

Best regards,


Jeroen Voogd
The Netherlands

Hi Jeroen/all
Below are a couple of links to the species you compare, P.ilicifolia and P.
tremulifolia

http://www.ut.ee/BGZM/heteroce/bomby.htm
http://www.ibs-t.net/lepidoptere/Lasiocampidae.htm#Lasiocampidae

Paul Talbot in VC 63


----- Original Message -----
From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides


> Hello Reg and others,
>
> I have never bred Eriogaster lanestris; this species is extinct in
> the Netherlands since 1957. Other Lasiocampids I have bred are:
>
> Gastropacha quercifolia
> Lasiocampa trifolii
> Euthrix potatoria
> Malacosoma castrensis
> Malacosoma neustria
> Phyllodesma tremulifolia (This year for the first time, I just have
> obtained eggs) Macrothylacia rubi Dendromilus pini
>
> Poecilocampa populi is a species on my wish list! On the excellent
> UKmoths website by Ian Kimber is a picture of Phyllodesma
> ilicifiolia, I seriously doubt if the determination is correct. As I
> have bred tremulifolia and the moths have emerged already, I realy
> do not see any difference between my species and the picture on
> UKmoths. I have added a picture to the files area of tremulifolia.
> As far as I know ilicifolia should be less brown in comparison with
> tremulifolia.
>
> Jeroen Voogd
>
> http://www.butterflies-moths.com
> The Netherlands
>
> --- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., Reg Fry <reg.a.fry@b...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Thanks Jeroen, I will add your notes on the Oak Eggar (Lasiocampa
> quercus)
> > to the start of a file on this family.
> >
> > Do you get any other members of this family in your area?
> >
> > In the UK the Small Eggar (Eriogaster lanestris) has a very
> restricted
> > (local) distribution. The nearest colony to me in N.E. Essex is
> about 25km
> > north of where I live but in that area it only occurs on a few
> hedgerows
> > within a 1/2 km radius.
> >
> > If you know of an area were the moth is known to occur, the larvae
> can be
> > found on webs in the spring sunning themselves. The webs grow
> quite large
> > before the larvae disperse to pupate - they spin smaller versions
> of the Oak
> > Eggar cocoons - which are cigar-shaped.
> >
> > I have only bred the Small Eggar once but they were very reluctant
> to pair
> > in captivity - which is unusual for a moth species.
> >
> > Has anyone else found/bred the Small Eggar - I looked for it for
> years
> > without any success but having found it once I now know of a
> couple of other
> > colonies in Somerset.
> >
> > I have also found it very easy to attract male moths to a female
> Oak Eggar.
> > The males fly in sunshine and (as with the Emperor moth Pavonia
> pavonia) you
> > can watch them homing in on the scent of the female. The males are
> often
> > mistaken for Fritillaries by beginners!
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Reg Fry
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@B...>
> > > Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@y...
> > > Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:20:01 -0000
> > > To: Breeding_UK-Leps@y...
> > > Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > >
> > > An extremely easy species to rear is Lasiocampa quercus. The
> > > caterpillar overwinters and you can find them right now when
> they are
> > > basking in the sun on heather. You often find the caterpillars
> also
> > > on small birch (sometimes also eggs or young larvae of Endromis
> > > versicolora) standing on a sunny location between heather. The
> larvae
> > > grow to an enormous size before pupating in a tight cocon. If you
> > > want to fasten the growth of the larvae you can feed them birch,
> > > bramble and swallow in stead of heather, often the adult will
> become
> > > bigger in comparison with those which have fed on heather. (the
> same
> > > happens with Pavonia pavonia) If a female has emerged you can
> just
> > > release her where she has been found and pick her up the other
> day,
> > > (only sometimes she is disappaered) she will have mated and lay
> eggs
> > > easily in captivity. You can also let them mate in captivity, the
> > > males however fly a lot and often seriously damage their wings in
> > > short time. I always use potted heather to overwinter the larvae,
> > > with good results. It is a nice species, because the caterpillar
> > > looks different after every molt. I will upload some pictures to
> the
> > > photo area today!
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeroen Voogd
> > > The Netherlands
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Reg and others,

I have never bred Eriogaster lanestris; this species is extinct in
the Netherlands since 1957. Other Lasiocampids I have bred are:

Gastropacha quercifolia
Lasiocampa trifolii
Euthrix potatoria
Malacosoma castrensis
Malacosoma neustria
Phyllodesma tremulifolia (This year for the first time, I just have
obtained eggs) Macrothylacia rubi Dendromilus pini

Poecilocampa populi is a species on my wish list! On the excellent
UKmoths website by Ian Kimber is a picture of Phyllodesma
ilicifiolia, I seriously doubt if the determination is correct. As I
have bred tremulifolia and the moths have emerged already, I realy
do not see any difference between my species and the picture on
UKmoths. I have added a picture to the files area of tremulifolia.
As far as I know ilicifolia should be less brown in comparison with
tremulifolia.

Jeroen Voogd

http://www.butterflies-moths.com
The Netherlands

--- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., Reg Fry <reg.a.fry@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks Jeroen, I will add your notes on the Oak Eggar (Lasiocampa
quercus)
> to the start of a file on this family.
>
> Do you get any other members of this family in your area?
>
> In the UK the Small Eggar (Eriogaster lanestris) has a very
restricted
> (local) distribution. The nearest colony to me in N.E. Essex is
about 25km
> north of where I live but in that area it only occurs on a few
hedgerows
> within a 1/2 km radius.
>
> If you know of an area were the moth is known to occur, the larvae
can be
> found on webs in the spring sunning themselves. The webs grow
quite large
> before the larvae disperse to pupate - they spin smaller versions
of the Oak
> Eggar cocoons - which are cigar-shaped.
>
> I have only bred the Small Eggar once but they were very reluctant
to pair
> in captivity - which is unusual for a moth species.
>
> Has anyone else found/bred the Small Eggar - I looked for it for
years
> without any success but having found it once I now know of a
couple of other
> colonies in Somerset.
>
> I have also found it very easy to attract male moths to a female
Oak Eggar.
> The males fly in sunshine and (as with the Emperor moth Pavonia
pavonia) you
> can watch them homing in on the scent of the female. The males are
often
> mistaken for Fritillaries by beginners!
>
>
> Regards
>
> Reg Fry
>
>
>
> > From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@B...>
> > Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@y...
> > Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:20:01 -0000
> > To: Breeding_UK-Leps@y...
> > Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> >
> > An extremely easy species to rear is Lasiocampa quercus. The
> > caterpillar overwinters and you can find them right now when
they are
> > basking in the sun on heather. You often find the caterpillars
also
> > on small birch (sometimes also eggs or young larvae of Endromis
> > versicolora) standing on a sunny location between heather. The
larvae
> > grow to an enormous size before pupating in a tight cocon. If you
> > want to fasten the growth of the larvae you can feed them birch,
> > bramble and swallow in stead of heather, often the adult will
become
> > bigger in comparison with those which have fed on heather. (the
same
> > happens with Pavonia pavonia) If a female has emerged you can
just
> > release her where she has been found and pick her up the other
day,
> > (only sometimes she is disappaered) she will have mated and lay
eggs
> > easily in captivity. You can also let them mate in captivity, the
> > males however fly a lot and often seriously damage their wings in
> > short time. I always use potted heather to overwinter the larvae,
> > with good results. It is a nice species, because the caterpillar
> > looks different after every molt. I will upload some pictures to
the
> > photo area today!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Jeroen Voogd
> > The Netherlands
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Hi Nigel
Thanks for the tips on cages but do you have any contacts for the 1 mm plastic?
Tried locally but couldn't get any this thin.

Paul Talbot in VC 63




----- Original Message -----
From: "md_hunteruk" <njstone@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:18 PM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Breeding Cages


> The rearing cages I used the most were easily made at home.
>
> The base was an 8" plastic plant pot holder (like a shallow pot
> itself) and stood upright in this was a cylinder of clear perspex.
> I think it was about 1mm thick, cut to length so when rolled up and
> glued/stapled at the edge it fitted snuggly into the pot holder.
>
> The cylinders were about 12-14" high and covered with a circular
> piece of net curtain weighted down with pegs clipped round the edge.
>
> These cages were much easier to was and clean than the wood and
> netting cages used at the time and with clear sides gave excellent
> viewing of what was going on inside.
>
> I did make a larger wooden framed emerging cage with netting sides.
> This was about 18" square at the base and about 2 feet high.
>
> The largest one I made was in the garden of an old lady that I knew.
> She had planted fennel and we constrcuted a sort of fruit cage affair
> over the top of it with fine netting. We bought several Swallow-tail
> butterfly pupae from Worldwide Butterflies and succeeded in emerging
> them and getting then to breed in the cage.
>
> Nigel.
>
> Nigel.
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Nigel
There is a funny  story in the NN volume, Moths by Michael Majerus. He used to
breed Atlas Moths as a child at Xmas and as time went on this became a
traditional family event every year, evidently they used to let the live moths
roost on the Xmas tree instead of using baubles! This all went swimmingly until
one year a rather frugal aunt stayed with them over Xmas and decided to turn off
the room lights at night to save electricity....unfortunately it was the room
with tree and moths! After they had spent a few hours the next day finding all
the moths who had flown around the house they abandoned the idea for future
years.

PS This book is an excellant read, much better than the Ford volume I think,
interesting, funny and informative. A good "dip into" book.

Paul Talbot in VC 63

----- Original Message -----
From: "md_hunteruk" <njstone@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Easy species and !


> --- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@b...> wrote:
> > Hi all
> > As a suggestion for people new to breeding leps, how about a list
> of easy species for beginners in the files area?
>
> Hi,
>
> I haven't bred any leps for years now but used to back in the mid
> 1970's.
> The easy ones I remember doing were:
>
> Eyed Hawk, Lime Hawk and Poplar Hawk - just remember to provide an
> icecream tub full of peaty soil when thy are ready to pupate.
>
> Gypsy Moth - very easy, the first species I reared through from ova.
>
> Swallowtail Moth
>
> Puss moth - fascinating to watch the wooden cocoon being constructed
> on a piece of bark I put into the cage.
>
> Dad used to save me all the pupae he found when digging the garden
> and I had a number of Noctuids emerge from those. Pupae are easily
> kept on some corrugated cardboard and I used to spray them with water
> every few days.
>
> I would endorse the advice to only breed a couple of species per
> season. I was a little over-enthusiastic in my youth and had a
> bedroom full of cages. I had to keep going further afield to find
> foodplants so I didnt strip too much off each tree, and the noise of
> munching at night would keep me awake!
>
> I moved more into the silk-moths after a while - everyone should do
> the Atlas moth at least once. The caterpillars are marvellous (they
> can really grip your finger very tightly) and the sight of them
> flying round your house like bats is unforgetable.
>
> Nigel.
>
>
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The rearing cages I used the most were easily made at home.

The base was an 8" plastic plant pot holder (like a shallow pot
itself) and stood upright in this was a cylinder of clear perspex.
I think it was about 1mm thick, cut to length so when rolled up and
glued/stapled at the edge it fitted snuggly into the pot holder.

The cylinders were about 12-14" high and covered with a circular
piece of net curtain weighted down with pegs clipped round the edge.

These cages were much easier to was and clean than the wood and
netting cages used at the time and with clear sides gave excellent
viewing of what was going on inside.

I did make a larger wooden framed emerging cage with netting sides.
This was about 18" square at the base and about 2 feet high.

The largest one I made was in the garden of an old lady that I knew.
She had planted fennel and we constrcuted a sort of fruit cage affair
over the top of it with fine netting. We bought several Swallow-tail
butterfly pupae from Worldwide Butterflies and succeeded in emerging
them and getting then to breed in the cage.

Nigel.

Nigel.

--- In Breeding_UK-Leps@y..., "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@b...> wrote:
> Hi all
> As a suggestion for people new to breeding leps, how about a list
of easy species for beginners in the files area?

Hi,

I haven't bred any leps for years now but used to back in the mid
1970's.
The easy ones I remember doing were:

Eyed Hawk, Lime Hawk and Poplar Hawk - just remember to provide an
icecream tub full of peaty soil when thy are ready to pupate.

Gypsy Moth - very easy, the first species I reared through from ova.

Swallowtail Moth

Puss moth - fascinating to watch the wooden cocoon being constructed
on a piece of bark I put into the cage.

Dad used to save me all the pupae he found when digging the garden
and I had a number of Noctuids emerge from those. Pupae are easily
kept on some corrugated cardboard and I used to spray them with water
every few days.

I would endorse the advice to only breed a couple of species per
season. I was a little over-enthusiastic in my youth and had a
bedroom full of cages. I had to keep going further afield to find
foodplants so I didnt strip too much off each tree, and the noise of
munching at night would keep me awake!

I moved more into the silk-moths after a while - everyone should do
the Atlas moth at least once. The caterpillars are marvellous (they
can really grip your finger very tightly) and the sight of them
flying round your house like bats is unforgetable.

Nigel.

Hi all,

Thanks Jeroen, I will add your notes on the Oak Eggar (Lasiocampa quercus)
to the start of a file on this family.

Do you get any other members of this family in your area?

In the UK the Small Eggar (Eriogaster lanestris) has a very restricted
(local) distribution. The nearest colony to me in N.E. Essex is about 25km
north of where I live but in that area it only occurs on a few hedgerows
within a 1/2 km radius.

If you know of an area were the moth is known to occur, the larvae can be
found on webs in the spring sunning themselves. The webs grow quite large
before the larvae disperse to pupate - they spin smaller versions of the Oak
Eggar cocoons - which are cigar-shaped.

I have only bred the Small Eggar once but they were very reluctant to pair
in captivity - which is unusual for a moth species.

Has anyone else found/bred the Small Eggar - I looked for it for years
without any success but having found it once I now know of a couple of other
colonies in Somerset.

I have also found it very easy to attract male moths to a female Oak Eggar.
The males fly in sunshine and (as with the Emperor moth Pavonia pavonia) you
can watch them homing in on the scent of the female. The males are often
mistaken for Fritillaries by beginners!


Regards

Reg Fry



> From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@...>
> Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:20:01 -0000
> To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: Beginners guides
>
> Hello all,
>
>
> An extremely easy species to rear is Lasiocampa quercus. The
> caterpillar overwinters and you can find them right now when they are
> basking in the sun on heather. You often find the caterpillars also
> on small birch (sometimes also eggs or young larvae of Endromis
> versicolora) standing on a sunny location between heather. The larvae
> grow to an enormous size before pupating in a tight cocon. If you
> want to fasten the growth of the larvae you can feed them birch,
> bramble and swallow in stead of heather, often the adult will become
> bigger in comparison with those which have fed on heather. (the same
> happens with Pavonia pavonia) If a female has emerged you can just
> release her where she has been found and pick her up the other day,
> (only sometimes she is disappaered) she will have mated and lay eggs
> easily in captivity. You can also let them mate in captivity, the
> males however fly a lot and often seriously damage their wings in
> short time. I always use potted heather to overwinter the larvae,
> with good results. It is a nice species, because the caterpillar
> looks different after every molt. I will upload some pictures to the
> photo area today!
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Jeroen Voogd
> The Netherlands
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Whoops
I just wrote to Nick G Davis asking if we could have a copy, I thought he
wrote it!

Paul Talbot in VC 63






----- Original Message -----
From: "TerryD" <terryd@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !


> Paul,
>
> There is still a copy on Ukmoths files area of Tony Prichards list
>
> ATB
>
> Terry
> Stamford Border Badlands!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 10 April 2002 10:24
> Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !
>
>
> > I don't think we can put up copies from PBM Allen's lists of larval
> foodplants
> > as it is copyright of W&D - they still have copies for sale
> >
> >
> > I am contacting the person who did the plant list for UK Moths to see
> if we can filch a copy for the files.
> >
> > Paul Talbot in VC 63
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

Paul,

There is still a copy on Ukmoths files area of Tony Prichards list

ATB

Terry
Stamford Border Badlands!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 10 April 2002 10:24
Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !


> I don't think we can put up copies from PBM Allen's lists of larval
foodplants
> as it is copyright of W&D - they still have copies for sale
>
>
> I am contacting the person who did the plant list for UK Moths to see
if we can filch a copy for the files.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Hello all,


An extremely easy species to rear is Lasiocampa quercus. The
caterpillar overwinters and you can find them right now when they are
basking in the sun on heather. You often find the caterpillars also
on small birch (sometimes also eggs or young larvae of Endromis
versicolora) standing on a sunny location between heather. The larvae
grow to an enormous size before pupating in a tight cocon. If you
want to fasten the growth of the larvae you can feed them birch,
bramble and swallow in stead of heather, often the adult will become
bigger in comparison with those which have fed on heather. (the same
happens with Pavonia pavonia) If a female has emerged you can just
release her where she has been found and pick her up the other day,
(only sometimes she is disappaered) she will have mated and lay eggs
easily in captivity. You can also let them mate in captivity, the
males however fly a lot and often seriously damage their wings in
short time. I always use potted heather to overwinter the larvae,
with good results. It is a nice species, because the caterpillar
looks different after every molt. I will upload some pictures to the
photo area today!

Best regards,


Jeroen Voogd
The Netherlands

Hi Reg
You should know by know my appetite for books, articles, etc to do with
moffs is insatiable! This article and absolutely anything else to do with
leps is fine by me.

Paul Talbot in VC 63


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Beginners guides


> Hi all,
>
> I have put up a beginners guide to rearing the Emperor moth (Saturnia
> pavonia - now called Pavonia pavonia for some reason that I fail to
> understand!) from an article I wrote for the AES Bug Club magazine. It is
a
> pdf file and can be downloaded from the files area - is this the type of
> article you (Paul T.) were suggesting we should also include on the site?
>
> Reg
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

Hi all,

I have put up a beginners guide to rearing the Emperor moth (Saturnia
pavonia - now called Pavonia pavonia for some reason that I fail to
understand!) from an article I wrote for the AES Bug Club magazine. It is a
pdf file and can be downloaded from the files area - is this the type of
article you (Paul T.) were suggesting we should also include on the site?

Reg

I don't think we can put up copies from PBM Allen's lists of larval foodplants
as it is copyright of W&D - they still have copies for sale

Hi Reg
You amaze me, I had absolutely no idea this book was still in print! Just shows
good books never date, I  am only disappointed Allen didn't get more stuff in
print as he is by far my favourite writer in this field.

I am contacting the person who did the plant list for UK Moths to see if we can
filch a copy for the files.

Paul Talbot in VC 63




----- Original Message -----
From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !


> Hi all,
>
> Re Pauls request below I suppose the easy to find, quick to breed species,
> for a beginner must include the Small Tortoiseshell (Aglias urticae) and
> Peacock (Inachis io) butterflies. It is easy to find the larval webs - and
> take a few larvae and both species will feed up quickly and produce
> butterflies within a few weeks. However the butterflies would have to be
> released as the beginner would not be able to get them to breed in captivity
> - the Peacock only has one generation and will not breed until next year
> anyway. It is also easy to find ova of the Orange-tip butterfly (Anthocharis
> cardamines) on one of its foodplants and these are easy to rear on the seed
> heads but are said to be cannibalistic - they over-winter as pupae so there
> is a long wait for the results.
>
> Within the moths the Puss Moth must rate as one of the easiest to find and
> breed - see the files and photos area for details however they also
> over-winter as pupae. The Sallow Kitten is another easy species to rear and
> the first generation produces moths this year. Both species pair up easily
> in captivity.
>
> I wrote a series of articles for beginners in the AES Bug Club magazine
> 'Interesting Caterpillars to breed'. I will be modifying these and adding
> them to the files area over the next few months. I hope other members of
> this group will help me fill in the gaps in the 1000s of species we could
> include....
>
> I dont think we can put up copies from PBM Allens lists of larval foodplants
> as it is copyright of W&D - they still have copies for sale and it is well
> worth getting a copy if you havent got one already. The other list sounds
> worth having if Paul can persuade the owner to put up a copy for us.
>
> Reg Fry, N.E. Essex
>
> > From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> > Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:34:57 +0100
> > To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !
> >
> > Hi all
> > As a suggestion for people new to breeding leps, how about a list of easy
> > species for beginners in the files area?
> >
> > Another suggestion, I have a book by PBM Allen simply called Food Plants, in
> > this are listed all the foodplants for the British Lepidoptera as used by
and
> > recommended to Allen. This list contains various plants that Allen had found
> > acceptable as substitutes to various reared Lepdioptera. I can copy parts of
> > this to the files area if people wish?
> >
> > Also someone on the UK Moths Yahoo group produced a list of the plants that
> > British moths had been found on, I am sure that the owner could be prevailed
> > upon to put a copy of this in the files area.
> >
> > Paul Talbot in VC 63
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

Re Pauls request below I suppose the easy to find, quick to breed species,
for a beginner must include the Small Tortoiseshell (Aglias urticae) and
Peacock (Inachis io) butterflies. It is easy to find the larval webs - and
take a few larvae and both species will feed up quickly and produce
butterflies within a few weeks. However the butterflies would have to be
released as the beginner would not be able to get them to breed in captivity
- the Peacock only has one generation and will not breed until next year
anyway. It is also easy to find ova of the Orange-tip butterfly (Anthocharis
cardamines) on one of its foodplants and these are easy to rear on the seed
heads but are said to be cannibalistic - they over-winter as pupae so there
is a long wait for the results.

Within the moths the Puss Moth must rate as one of the easiest to find and
breed - see the files and photos area for details however they also
over-winter as pupae. The Sallow Kitten is another easy species to rear and
the first generation produces moths this year. Both species pair up easily
in captivity.

I wrote a series of articles for beginners in the AES Bug Club magazine
'Interesting Caterpillars to breed'. I will be modifying these and adding
them to the files area over the next few months. I hope other members of
this group will help me fill in the gaps in the 1000s of species we could
include....

I dont think we can put up copies from PBM Allens lists of larval foodplants
as it is copyright of W&D - they still have copies for sale and it is well
worth getting a copy if you havent got one already. The other list sounds
worth having if Paul can persuade the owner to put up a copy for us.

Reg Fry, N.E. Essex

> From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:34:57 +0100
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Easy species and !
>
> Hi all
> As a suggestion for people new to breeding leps, how about a list of easy
> species for beginners in the files area?
>
> Another suggestion, I have a book by PBM Allen simply called Food Plants, in
> this are listed all the foodplants for the British Lepidoptera as used by and
> recommended to Allen. This list contains various plants that Allen had found
> acceptable as substitutes to various reared Lepdioptera. I can copy parts of
> this to the files area if people wish?
>
> Also someone on the UK Moths Yahoo group produced a list of the plants that
> British moths had been found on, I am sure that the owner could be prevailed
> upon to put a copy of this in the files area.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63

Paul Talbot wrote:
>
> One point I was very interested in was your mention of keeping food-plants in
water.
> I had been led to believe that this practice was not good due to some plants
taking up excess water
> and the larvae getting loose frass as a consequence?
>
I've always meant to try Cut Flower food (Crysal is one)
(you often get a sachet when you but a bunch of flowers
- go on, give her a treat! - but you can buy them separately)
Anyway, it might help to reduce the osmotic difference.
Cheers
Malcolm

Hi all
As a suggestion for people new to breeding leps, how about a list of easy
species for beginners in the files area?

Another suggestion, I have a book by PBM Allen simply called Food Plants, in
this are listed all the foodplants for the British Lepidoptera as used by and
recommended to Allen. This list contains various plants that Allen had found
acceptable as substitutes to various reared Lepdioptera. I can copy parts of
this to the files area if people wish?

Also someone on the UK Moths Yahoo group produced a list of the plants that
British moths had been found on, I am sure that the owner could be prevailed
upon to put a copy of this in the files area.

Paul Talbot in VC 63


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I only obtained Freidrichs book last year and there is obviously a lot of
useful information in there. However like Jeroen, I was disappointed as the
first time I went use it to rear the two Swallow Prominents (Pheosia gnoma
and P. tremula) neither species was mentioned.

I hope we will all be able to share our experiences this season. I have
never had much of a problem with keeping foodplant in water but these days I
only use that method when breeding significant numbers of a single species.
Otherwise for 1-10 larvae or so I find it much easier to keep the foodplant
fresh in sealed plastic boxes with a 'kitchen roll' lining, reducing the
number of larvae per box as they get larger. I clean out the boxes and
replace the foodplant most days.

As Jeroen says it is well worth watching butterflies egg-laying. Even the
common species such as the Small Tortoiseshell are fascinating to watch as
they go around 'tapping' nettle leaves until they find one they like. If you
want to breed the Red Admiral Vanessa atalanta it is well worth watching the
females lay their eggs (singly) and then picking them up. Many larvae seem
to get parasitised very quickly.

Many species require very specialised habitats/warmth for ovipositing as
studies by those studying populations/habitat management/species
conservation have demonstrated in recent years.

Reg

> From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:00:47 +0100
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Friedrichs book etc
>
> Hi Jeroen
> Interesting observations you make with regard to the Freidrich book, I have
> very little experience of breeding moths of any description and was relying on
> the book for guidance. The only section I have used is the micro section by
> Emmet and this mainly for ideas for over-wintering the Leaf Mines, etc. As
> Emmet wrote this section of the book one knows that the observations will be
> from personal experience.
>
> PBM Allen in his trilogy of reminiscences remarks that to understand the moths
> better it is best to only breed 3 or 4 species per season for the reasons you
> state.
>
> You mention that people should breed more than one generation to observe the
> life cycle more closely. This seems to make sense as it is impossible to make
> definite statements about the requirements of each species from one
> observation. I would ask that people also release any parasites that are
> reared or at the very least do as I do and send them off with the remains of
> the larvae they had parasatised to a specialist.
>
> One point I was very interested in was your mention of keeping food-plants in
> water. I had been led to believe that this practice was not good due to some
> plants taking up excess water and the larvae getting loose frass as a
> consequence? The few species I have reared have been given fresh food daily
> and cleaned out, this seemed to work ok with not many losses.
>
> I shall look forward to reading your hints and tips in forthcoming posts.
> Would you  mind answering questions about individual species during the season
> (in case your experiences are different to Friedrichs)? The other aspect of
> your posts that I think will prove interesting is, what (if any)difference
> there is between the food plant preferred, life cycle, etc between British and
> European Moths of the same species
>
> PS like your website.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@...>
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: First Message
>
>
>> Hello Paul and others,
>>
>> I have no experience with breeding micro's, but I have bred (and I
>> still breed) a lot of macro's. Friedrich's book is in my opinion not
>> a good reference for the macro's, too often it does not match my
>> personal experiences.
>>
>> I will give just one example, in Freidrich it says that freshly
>> formed pupae are eaten by other larvae of Meliteae cinxia which are
>> not pupated yet. I have bred this species a lot and never have had
>> any losses due to eaten pupae. In fact it is the only species I know
>> which is extremely social, they even pupate together! I know another
>> breeder who experienced the eating of freshly formed pupae, but this
>> strange behaviour was only experienced with overcrowding or a when
>> there was a shortage of high quality food!
>>
>> I am very much interested in the experiences of others. E.g. I would
>> like to know the opinion about the difference between using potted
>> foodplants in comparison with branches in water. I always use
>> branches in combination with water as a rule. Because I know plants
>> can react to stress by producing all kind of chemicals which may
>> cause high losses. Of course cutting causes stress too so I replace
>> the food every other day. However some species react badly to high
>> water levels in the food (e.g. catocala)(especially the young larvae)
>> and then I just use cutted branches without water and replace them
>> every day. When I have overwintering species I use potted foodplants
>> during the hibernation with good results. (This year I have Arctia
>> villica larvae, they overwintered well, but refused to eat dandelion
>> after the overwintering (this was the preferred foodplant before
>> hibernation) and only accepted common nettle).
>>
>> To avoid overcrowding I agree with Reg that you should limit the
>> number of caterpillars for each species. I would also recommend
>> anybody to limit the number of species. Cleaning the boxes and
>> obtaining and changing the foodplants can take a lot of time.
>> I also never keep more species in one box together.
>>
>> I believe the experience of others should be a good update for
>> Friedrich's book, I also believe breedimng species can give us a lot
>> of information about the biology and ecology of butterflies and
>> moths.
>>
>> Another point is that breeding involves the whole livecycle, but a
>> lot of people just search for caterpillars grow them up and release
>> the butterfly/moth or parasite. I do both, but when you want to learn
>> and understand a species breeding more generations is a must!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Jeroen Voogd
>> The Netherlands
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hello Paul and others,

Observing the livecycle is one thing but observing the behavior and
thus understanding the insect a little bit is another point of my
interests.

M. cinxia females for exeample only lay their eggs on plants with a
certain condition. It is also fascinating to see that after mating it
takes up to ten days before they produce eggs. My conclusion is that
the females have to obtain enough energy to produce the eggs,
producing eggs takes about ten days. ( I once examined a fresh female
and indeed there were no fully developed eggs in her abdomen) Another
conclusion is that the environment has to be a mosaic of plants,
plantago with various conditions, the plant onwhich the eggs are
placed are always situated on a spot with a hot dry warm micrclimate
and are often not surrounded closely by other plants. (in captivity
however most species just lay their eggs even if the situation is not
suitable) The larvae build their nest on a much cooler spot, whiuh
has to be close to the plant with the eggs. Yet the females need
enough flowering plants to onbtain the necessary proteins to produce
eggs. Because I have bred this species in my flightcage I believe to
know some essential facts for cinxia:

1) differences in microclimate
2) plantago in different conditions
3) abundance of flowering plants for nectar

All in all you could say that the foodplant of a species is not the
factor determining if a species appears on a certain place,
butterflies and moths can thus function as a ecological measurement
of the envrionments state!

This is wat I mean with obtaining information about the biology and
ecology of a species. Alas my English is not that good, so it is
quite difficult for me to tell my experiences in English....

I agree that the watercontent of the foodplants can be to high, and
the larvae can become loose frass as a consequence, but my experience
is that this only happens with young larvae, and only with certain
species.

I would like it very much to answer questions about particular
species! Next week I will take some photo's from my breeding cages
and upload them to the photo area and describe these cages.

Best regards,


Jeroen Voogd
The Netherlands

Hi Jeroen
Interesting observations you make with regard to the Freidrich book, I have very
little experience of breeding moths of any description and was relying on the
book for guidance. The only section I have used is the micro section by Emmet
and this mainly for ideas for over-wintering the Leaf Mines, etc. As Emmet wrote
this section of the book one knows that the observations will be from personal
experience.

PBM Allen in his trilogy of reminiscences remarks that to understand the moths
better it is best to only breed 3 or 4 species per season for the reasons you
state.

You mention that people should breed more than one generation to observe the
life cycle more closely. This seems to make sense as it is impossible to make
definite statements about the requirements of each species from one observation.
I would ask that people also release any parasites that are reared or at the
very least do as I do and send them off with the remains of the larvae they had
parasatised to a specialist.

One point I was very interested in was your mention of keeping food-plants in
water. I had been led to believe that this practice was not good due to some
plants taking up excess water and the larvae getting loose frass as a
consequence? The few species I have reared have been given fresh food daily and
cleaned out, this seemed to work ok with not many losses.

I shall look forward to reading your hints and tips in forthcoming posts. Would
you  mind answering questions about individual species during the season (in
case your experiences are different to Friedrichs)? The other aspect of your
posts that I think will prove interesting is, what (if any)difference there is
between the food plant preferred, life cycle, etc between British and European
Moths of the same species

PS like your website.

Paul Talbot in VC 63



----- Original Message -----
From: "acherontia2001" <Yahoo@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] Re: First Message


> Hello Paul and others,
>
> I have no experience with breeding micro's, but I have bred (and I
> still breed) a lot of macro's. Friedrich's book is in my opinion not
> a good reference for the macro's, too often it does not match my
> personal experiences.
>
> I will give just one example, in Freidrich it says that freshly
> formed pupae are eaten by other larvae of Meliteae cinxia which are
> not pupated yet. I have bred this species a lot and never have had
> any losses due to eaten pupae. In fact it is the only species I know
> which is extremely social, they even pupate together! I know another
> breeder who experienced the eating of freshly formed pupae, but this
> strange behaviour was only experienced with overcrowding or a when
> there was a shortage of high quality food!
>
> I am very much interested in the experiences of others. E.g. I would
> like to know the opinion about the difference between using potted
> foodplants in comparison with branches in water. I always use
> branches in combination with water as a rule. Because I know plants
> can react to stress by producing all kind of chemicals which may
> cause high losses. Of course cutting causes stress too so I replace
> the food every other day. However some species react badly to high
> water levels in the food (e.g. catocala)(especially the young larvae)
> and then I just use cutted branches without water and replace them
> every day. When I have overwintering species I use potted foodplants
> during the hibernation with good results. (This year I have Arctia
> villica larvae, they overwintered well, but refused to eat dandelion
> after the overwintering (this was the preferred foodplant before
> hibernation) and only accepted common nettle).
>
> To avoid overcrowding I agree with Reg that you should limit the
> number of caterpillars for each species. I would also recommend
> anybody to limit the number of species. Cleaning the boxes and
> obtaining and changing the foodplants can take a lot of time.
> I also never keep more species in one box together.
>
> I believe the experience of others should be a good update for
> Friedrich's book, I also believe breedimng species can give us a lot
> of information about the biology and ecology of butterflies and
> moths.
>
> Another point is that breeding involves the whole livecycle, but a
> lot of people just search for caterpillars grow them up and release
> the butterfly/moth or parasite. I do both, but when you want to learn
> and understand a species breeding more generations is a must!
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Jeroen Voogd
> The Netherlands
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Paul and others,

I have no experience with breeding micro's, but I have bred (and I
still breed) a lot of macro's. Friedrich's book is in my opinion not
a good reference for the macro's, too often it does not match my
personal experiences.

I will give just one example, in Freidrich it says that freshly
formed pupae are eaten by other larvae of Meliteae cinxia which are
not pupated yet. I have bred this species a lot and never have had
any losses due to eaten pupae. In fact it is the only species I know
which is extremely social, they even pupate together! I know another
breeder who experienced the eating of freshly formed pupae, but this
strange behaviour was only experienced with overcrowding or a when
there was a shortage of high quality food!

I am very much interested in the experiences of others. E.g. I would
like to know the opinion about the difference between using potted
foodplants in comparison with branches in water. I always use
branches in combination with water as a rule. Because I know plants
can react to stress by producing all kind of chemicals which may
cause high losses. Of course cutting causes stress too so I replace
the food every other day. However some species react badly to high
water levels in the food (e.g. catocala)(especially the young larvae)
and then I just use cutted branches without water and replace them
every day. When I have overwintering species I use potted foodplants
during the hibernation with good results. (This year I have Arctia
villica larvae, they overwintered well, but refused to eat dandelion
after the overwintering (this was the preferred foodplant before
hibernation) and only accepted common nettle).

To avoid overcrowding I agree with Reg that you should limit the
number of caterpillars for each species. I would also recommend
anybody to limit the number of species. Cleaning the boxes and
obtaining and changing the foodplants can take a lot of time.
I also never keep more species in one box together.

I believe the experience of others should be a good update for
Friedrich's book, I also believe breedimng species can give us a lot
of information about the biology and ecology of butterflies and
moths.

Another point is that breeding involves the whole livecycle, but a
lot of people just search for caterpillars grow them up and release
the butterfly/moth or parasite. I do both, but when you want to learn
and understand a species breeding more generations is a must!

Best regards,


Jeroen Voogd
The Netherlands

If you do I would recommend that you restrict your self to 20 or so
ova from any one species. Some species lay at a great rate and there is
always a temptation to keep too many eggs - which leads to problems in
finding good quality foodplant and breeding them all through successfully.

Hi Reg
You don't need to remind me of this.....Ian Kimber left me looking after a hoard
of ravenous Eyed Hawk moth caterpillars last summer when he went on holiday. I
still have nightmares about this even now, the bloody things kept me out all
hours collecting Sallow and their constant perambulations around the container
looking for food kept me awake at night!

To make matters worse by the time Kimber came back from his jollies in France
they had all pupated, and  the only reason he had them was to photograph the
larval stages for his website!

He had also left a container with Burnett ova, they hatched out in their
thousands, I spent two days collecting Birds Foot Trefoil and then went and
tipped them back on the nature reserve they came from! If Ian kimber approaches
anyone in this group around the last two weeks in July, don't answer the door
:-))

The Friedrich book has an excellant section on the micro lepidoptera by Emmet,
its worth the money just for this section alone.

Paul Talbot in VC 63


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message


> Hi Paul/all
>
> Personally I have always found searching for ova/larva and breeding one or
> two generations more enjoyable than just trapping - although the latter is
> very useful for confirming which species are around in a particular patch.
> Having worked indoors in peoples homes, in telephone exchanges and then
> offices all my working life, going out in the evenings/weekends collecting
> foodplant and livestock was an excellent way to relax and get exercise! The
> only problem was taking a boot full of livestock on holiday and then finding
> the range of foodplants required...
>
> I have added the article I wrote for the AES listing the insects I found in
> my new garden last year - as a PDF file in the 'Files area', Title 'Garden
> Insects'.
>
> No doubt you will be keeping a look out for female moths in your trap this
> year! If you do I would recommend that you restrict your self to 20 or so
> ova from any one species. Some species lay at a great rate and there is
> always a temptation to keep too many eggs - which leads to problems in
> finding good quality foodplant and breeding them all through successfully.
>
> As you say PBM Allens books are a great read - can you remember in which one
> he agonises about the difficulty in hibernating A. caja larvae.
>
> I will add Friedrichs book to the list of books I have put in the files
> area.
>
> Reg
>
> > From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> > Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 11:11:20 +0100
> > To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message
> >
> > Hi Reg
> > As somewhat of a newbie with regard to lepidoptera I have not done much
> > breeding or rearing of larvae. I suppose with the almost universal use of MV
> > light traps that a lot of the knowledge that newbies would learn via field
> > trips looking for larvae is not being passed on.
> >
> > I have been recording moths only since 1999 and like most started with a MV
> > trap in the garden. As time and my thirst for knowledge about these
> > fascinating creatures grew I read more and more of the old literature from
pre
> > light trap days. I was amazed at the range of techniques and depth of study
> > that went into the hobby in those days, its a bit of a misnomer to simply
> > label them all as "collectors".
> >
> > I suspect that a lot of people who have started the hobby in recent years
wish
> > to progress now with breeding, rearing and simply finding larvae in the
wild.
> > Any tips and hints on these lines would be most helpful to people like
myself.
> > I have a copy of the Friedrich book, Breeding Butterflies and Moths and
would
> > recommend this as a starting point to anyone whishing to breed European
> > species. The books of reminiscences by PBM Allen are also packed with hints
> > and tips as well as being very funny at times. Probably ther best book
though
> > is the one republished by the AES , Tutts Practical hints for the field
> > Lepidopterist, maybe you have more details on this volume?
> >
> > Looking forward to this season and getting out with net and beating tray
> > rather than lugging tons of gennys and lighting gear across country in the
> > dark! Ian Kimber and I spent weeks on end last year trying to get to grips
> > with leaf miners and enjoyed the experience far more than simply light
> > trapping.
> >
> > Looking forward to the posts from this new group which I am sure will be
> > another success story for the further study of leps.
> >
> > Paul Talbot in VC 63
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
> > To: <breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:49 AM
> > Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message
> >
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I started this new forum because others such as 'ukmoths', and local groups
> >> e.g. the 'essexmothgroup' concentrate on trapping, recording and
> >> identification. However I am not aware of any forum which deals in detail
> >> with finding and rearing Lepidoptera, and looking at the volume of messages
> >> on other forums I dont think there is any further space/room to deal with
> >> rearing techniques in any detail - unless you know otherwise.
> >>
> >> As you will see I have set up a few files and photo albums as examples of
> >> the way in which we could build up a database which, in time, would be of
> >> particular use to beginners as well as to anyone who is trying to locate
and
> >> rear a species for the first time. Although there are a range of useful
> >> handbooks dealing with rearing Lepidoptera, I find that there are a lot of
> >> gaps that need to be filled in or expanded as far as the less spectacular
> >> moths are concerned. I would hope that we could fill that gap as
> >> queries/answers/ finds/requests are circulated via the e-mail facility on
> >> the forum.
> >>
> >> Now that we have a few members registered here I would appreciate your
> >> suggestions as to the way in which we organise this site, what we record,
> >> and if there are any particular topics you would like to see
> >> included/excluded. Also of course whether you think the examples I have put
> >> up so far are a useful way of recording 'hints and tips' and photos.
> >>
> >> I will try to keep track of 'hints and tips' that come in via e-mail and
add
> >> them to the appropriate text files when time permits - so that they are not
> >> lost in the archives of old e-mails. However if anyone would like to
> >> volunteer to keep the records for a particular family or sub-family that
> >> would of course be most welcome.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Reg Fry
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul/all

Personally I have always found searching for ova/larva and breeding one or
two generations more enjoyable than just trapping - although the latter is
very useful for confirming which species are around in a particular patch.
Having worked indoors in peoples homes, in telephone exchanges and then
offices all my working life, going out in the evenings/weekends collecting
foodplant and livestock was an excellent way to relax and get exercise! The
only problem was taking a boot full of livestock on holiday and then finding
the range of foodplants required...

I have added the article I wrote for the AES listing the insects I found in
my new garden last year - as a PDF file in the 'Files area', Title 'Garden
Insects'.

No doubt you will be keeping a look out for female moths in your trap this
year! If you do I would recommend that you restrict your self to 20 or so
ova from any one species. Some species lay at a great rate and there is
always a temptation to keep too many eggs - which leads to problems in
finding good quality foodplant and breeding them all through successfully.

As you say PBM Allens books are a great read - can you remember in which one
he agonises about the difficulty in hibernating A. caja larvae.

I will add Friedrichs book to the list of books I have put in the files
area.

Reg

> From: "Paul Talbot" <paulinvc63@...>
> Reply-To: Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 11:11:20 +0100
> To: <Breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message
>
> Hi Reg
> As somewhat of a newbie with regard to lepidoptera I have not done much
> breeding or rearing of larvae. I suppose with the almost universal use of MV
> light traps that a lot of the knowledge that newbies would learn via field
> trips looking for larvae is not being passed on.
>
> I have been recording moths only since 1999 and like most started with a MV
> trap in the garden. As time and my thirst for knowledge about these
> fascinating creatures grew I read more and more of the old literature from pre
> light trap days. I was amazed at the range of techniques and depth of study
> that went into the hobby in those days, its a bit of a misnomer to simply
> label them all as "collectors".
>
> I suspect that a lot of people who have started the hobby in recent years wish
> to progress now with breeding, rearing and simply finding larvae in the wild.
> Any tips and hints on these lines would be most helpful to people like myself.
> I have a copy of the Friedrich book, Breeding Butterflies and Moths and would
> recommend this as a starting point to anyone whishing to breed European
> species. The books of reminiscences by PBM Allen are also packed with hints
> and tips as well as being very funny at times. Probably ther best book though
> is the one republished by the AES , Tutts Practical hints for the field
> Lepidopterist, maybe you have more details on this volume?
>
> Looking forward to this season and getting out with net and beating tray
> rather than lugging tons of gennys and lighting gear across country in the
> dark! Ian Kimber and I spent weeks on end last year trying to get to grips
> with leaf miners and enjoyed the experience far more than simply light
> trapping.
>
> Looking forward to the posts from this new group which I am sure will be
> another success story for the further study of leps.
>
> Paul Talbot in VC 63
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
> To: <breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:49 AM
> Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I started this new forum because others such as 'ukmoths', and local groups
>> e.g. the 'essexmothgroup' concentrate on trapping, recording and
>> identification. However I am not aware of any forum which deals in detail
>> with finding and rearing Lepidoptera, and looking at the volume of messages
>> on other forums I dont think there is any further space/room to deal with
>> rearing techniques in any detail - unless you know otherwise.
>>
>> As you will see I have set up a few files and photo albums as examples of
>> the way in which we could build up a database which, in time, would be of
>> particular use to beginners as well as to anyone who is trying to locate and
>> rear a species for the first time. Although there are a range of useful
>> handbooks dealing with rearing Lepidoptera, I find that there are a lot of
>> gaps that need to be filled in or expanded as far as the less spectacular
>> moths are concerned. I would hope that we could fill that gap as
>> queries/answers/ finds/requests are circulated via the e-mail facility on
>> the forum.
>>
>> Now that we have a few members registered here I would appreciate your
>> suggestions as to the way in which we organise this site, what we record,
>> and if there are any particular topics you would like to see
>> included/excluded. Also of course whether you think the examples I have put
>> up so far are a useful way of recording 'hints and tips' and photos.
>>
>> I will try to keep track of 'hints and tips' that come in via e-mail and add
>> them to the appropriate text files when time permits - so that they are not
>> lost in the archives of old e-mails. However if anyone would like to
>> volunteer to keep the records for a particular family or sub-family that
>> would of course be most welcome.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Reg Fry

Hi Reg
As somewhat of a newbie with regard to lepidoptera I have not done much breeding
or rearing of larvae. I suppose with the almost universal use of MV light traps
that a lot of the knowledge that newbies would learn via field trips looking for
larvae is not being passed on.

I have been recording moths only since 1999 and like most started with a MV trap
in the garden. As time and my thirst for knowledge about these fascinating
creatures grew I read more and more of the old literature from pre light trap
days. I was amazed at the range of techniques and depth of study that went into
the hobby in those days, its a bit of a misnomer to simply label them all as
"collectors".

I suspect that a lot of people who have started the hobby in recent years wish
to progress now with breeding, rearing and simply finding larvae in the wild.
Any tips and hints on these lines would be most helpful to people like myself. I
have a copy of the Friedrich book, Breeding Butterflies and Moths and would
recommend this as a starting point to anyone whishing to breed European species.
The books of reminiscences by PBM Allen are also packed with hints and tips as
well as being very funny at times. Probably ther best book though is the one
republished by the AES , Tutts Practical hints for the field Lepidopterist,
maybe you have more details on this volume?

Looking forward to this season and getting out with net and beating tray rather
than lugging tons of gennys and lighting gear across country in the dark! Ian
Kimber and I spent weeks on end last year trying to get to grips with leaf
miners and enjoyed the experience far more than simply light trapping.

Looking forward to the posts from this new group which I am sure will be another
success story for the further study of leps.

Paul Talbot in VC 63




----- Original Message -----
From: "Reg Fry" <reg.a.fry@...>
To: <breeding_UK-Leps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:49 AM
Subject: [Breeding_UK-Leps] First Message


> Hi All,
>
> I started this new forum because others such as 'ukmoths', and local groups
> e.g. the 'essexmothgroup' concentrate on trapping, recording and
> identification. However I am not aware of any forum which deals in detail
> with finding and rearing Lepidoptera, and looking at the volume of messages
> on other forums I dont think there is any further space/room to deal with
> rearing techniques in any detail - unless you know otherwise.
>
> As you will see I have set up a few files and photo albums as examples of
> the way in which we could build up a database which, in time, would be of
> particular use to beginners as well as to anyone who is trying to locate and
> rear a species for the first time. Although there are a range of useful
> handbooks dealing with rearing Lepidoptera, I find that there are a lot of
> gaps that need to be filled in or expanded as far as the less spectacular
> moths are concerned. I would hope that we could fill that gap as
> queries/answers/ finds/requests are circulated via the e-mail facility on
> the forum.
>
> Now that we have a few members registered here I would appreciate your
> suggestions as to the way in which we organise this site, what we record,
> and if there are any particular topics you would like to see
> included/excluded. Also of course whether you think the examples I have put
> up so far are a useful way of recording 'hints and tips' and photos.
>
> I will try to keep track of 'hints and tips' that come in via e-mail and add
> them to the appropriate text files when time permits - so that they are not
> lost in the archives of old e-mails. However if anyone would like to
> volunteer to keep the records for a particular family or sub-family that
> would of course be most welcome.
>
> Regards
>
> Reg Fry
>
>
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Breeding_UK-Leps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

I started this new forum because others such as 'ukmoths', and local groups
e.g. the 'essexmothgroup' concentrate on trapping, recording and
identification. However I am not aware of any forum which deals in detail
with finding and rearing Lepidoptera, and looking at the volume of messages
on other forums I dont think there is any further space/room to deal with
rearing techniques in any detail - unless you know otherwise.

As you will see I have set up a few files and photo albums as examples of
the way in which we could build up a database which, in time, would be of
particular use to beginners as well as to anyone who is trying to locate and
rear a species for the first time. Although there are a range of useful
handbooks dealing with rearing Lepidoptera, I find that there are a lot of
gaps that need to be filled in or expanded as far as the less spectacular
moths are concerned. I would hope that we could fill that gap as
queries/answers/ finds/requests are circulated via the e-mail facility on
the forum.

Now that we have a few members registered here I would appreciate your
suggestions as to the way in which we organise this site, what we record,
and if there are any particular topics you would like to see
included/excluded. Also of course whether you think the examples I have put
up so far are a useful way of recording 'hints and tips' and photos.

I will try to keep track of 'hints and tips' that come in via e-mail and add
them to the appropriate text files when time permits - so that they are not
lost in the archives of old e-mails. However if anyone would like to
volunteer to keep the records for a particular family or sub-family that
would of course be most welcome.

Regards

Reg Fry