Hi folks,

Anybody know what a 3-inch Frank is worth?  My guess is $10, but I doubt that
Gosta will fall for that.
John Howard

Forwarded:

To John Howard,
President, CAS

Dear John,

I wonder if you could help me in this matter on which I was referred to you by
Keith Lockwood, with whom I have collaborated on the issue of regaining the dark
night sky for Canberra.

I have been landed with a small telescope, and the problem is how, to whom and
for what price to sell it.
The 1 meter long tube has a 75 mm objective and is made by Charles Frank Ltd,
Glasgow. There are three eyepieces with magnifications 180x, 72x and unmarked
but around 40x. I have had a look at a few objects and the optics seems in good
condition as is the little finder. There is a rough looking but fairly sturdy
tripod.
Do you have any idea about the price and about how to find somebody interested
in buying it?
Greetings,
Gosta Lynga

My vote for the best dark skies that I have seen in recent years goes to Dunn's
Swamp  which is about 45km east of Rylstone. It is just within the western
boundary of Wollemi National Park. I manage to spend a couple of weekends per
year there and the sky is truly black - unfortunately it is well outside 2hours
travel time fom Canberra.

Keith

PS
Don't forget that you can view the archives of this list by going to
www.onelist.com and logging in with your email address and password.


----------
> From: m.macdonald@... (Michael MacDonald)
>
> From what I hear the best observing site is John Morland's backyard?!?
>
>
>
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From what I hear the best observing site is John Morland's backyard?!?

John -

I think Nelmes has summed it up quite well.  In this region, there's no
need to think of totally remote locations.  The darkest sky I've seen
was on an observing night for the CAS at Honeysuckle Creek one January
years ago - I saw things then I haven't managed since with the same
aperture (including a better view of NGC 1365 with a C14 than I had with
the Siding Spring 16-inch on a moonless night).

Skyglow and seeing are the main issues, given absence of Moon, fog,
cloud, dust.  The Bobroff Acres site is very good for darkness, and
seeing can be good there.  Seeing makes a noticeable difference for
faint star visibility, less for faint fuzzies.  Main thing is to avoid
hollows where cold air draining in kills the seeing, likewise lee side
of hills etc can be bad, and terrain that's bare/rocky so the Sun turns
it into a heat sink by day (emitting by night).

Once you're 40km or so from Canberra the sky glow isn't much of an
issue.  There's no need to think Uluru.  I also use stars in the Coal
Sack as naked-eye test of darkness (when the Cross isn't too low) - it
remains a personal check, because we all have different eye sensitivity
levels.

Ross








john.smiles@... wrote:
>
> From: john.smiles@...
>
> Steve mentioned "Buchan" and the really dark skies there.  I don't know of
> this location.   I was wondering if anyone had feelings on how 'dark' skies
> can really get in this part of Australia in a qualitative sort of way.  I
> take wide-angle photographs 20k south of Michelago and the sky is pretty
> good there.   How much 'better' does it get if you get further away from
> civilisation ?  Any suggestions on the best-value sites within a couple of
> hours (2-wheel) drive, preferably with local (semi)civilised sleeping
> facilities.  cheers John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Got an opinion?
> http://www.onelist.com
> Make it count!  Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now.

>can really get in this part of Australia in a qualitative sort of way.  I
>take wide-angle photographs 20k south of Michelago and the sky is pretty
>good there.   How much 'better' does it get if you get further away from
>civilisation ?  Any suggestions on the best-value sites within a couple of
>hours (2-wheel) drive, preferably with local (semi)civilised sleeping
>facilities.  cheers John
>
I've been to Bobroffs' (black sky, black clouds when there are some, some
people think a bit too much turbulence from the mountains but you can
certainly get sub arc-second nights all night on occasion) and to Denver's
(I don't think the sky is as black, but that may be an artifact of the wider
open spaces.  The weather there can be quite different from Canberra's) and
to Zane Hammond's Magellan Observatory at Lake Bathurst (black sky and
overnight accommodation available (at a price, of course).  Also lotsa
telescopes - you can photograph through Questars, 18-inchers, and everything
between.  Just take a camera.  An example of Zane's work is in the April/May
Lost in Space.

I'm waiting for the twinkle to go from the stars before cranking up the
barn-door for another try.  If anybody wants a try, please hoy.

John Howard

At 11:15 AM 21/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>From: john.smiles@...
>
>Steve mentioned "Buchan" and the really dark skies there.  I don't know of
>this location.   I was wondering if anyone had feelings on how 'dark' skies
>can really get in this part of Australia in a qualitative sort of way.  I
>take wide-angle photographs 20k south of Michelago and the sky is pretty
>good there.   How much 'better' does it get if you get further away from
>civilisation ?  Any suggestions on the best-value sites within a couple of
>hours (2-wheel) drive, preferably with local (semi)civilised sleeping
>facilities.  cheers John
>
>John. There are no large towns within bulls roar of Buchan, so no lights.
But I think atmospheric condition plays a part too, sky glow from dust and
smoke, altitude can help. May-be the hills near Cooma could be good!.
Steve Crouch has told me a test is to see how many stars you can see in the
"coal sack" it seems you can only see them from a real good site. When the
weather is more "passive" we should get a group and go on a quest, ie. a
night here a night there, just local.
SteveJ.>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Got an opinion?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Make it count!  Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now.
>
>

John - I used to regularly observe from Murrumbateman (about 40km from
Northborne Ave. I think), which is the nearest I would consider the sky to
be black. Denver's property is slightly further.

Just a few things off the top  of my head, based on intuition and a bit of
experience: the main things that should effect sky darkness would be 1.
light pollution, 2. mist or fog, and 3. dust or smoke. If you can eliminate
the first factor, the others should be more a matter of timing than
location. Topography might affect them (higher is better). In short, I
would think that anywhere in this area at least 40km from Canberra should
be as good as any other, as long as it's not foggy, dusty or smoky.  If
none of those conditions is present and the limiting magnitude is below 6
or 7, chances are there's some high level cirrus cloud.

What do others think?

MN

Steve mentioned "Buchan" and the really dark skies there.  I don't know of
this location.   I was wondering if anyone had feelings on how 'dark' skies
can really get in this part of Australia in a qualitative sort of way.  I
take wide-angle photographs 20k south of Michelago and the sky is pretty
good there.   How much 'better' does it get if you get further away from
civilisation ?  Any suggestions on the best-value sites within a couple of
hours (2-wheel) drive, preferably with local (semi)civilised sleeping
facilities.  cheers John

At 11:04 PM 19/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>From: S K Johnston <stevej@...>
>
>At 02:57 PM 17/06/99 +1100, you wrote:
>>From: "J & P Howard" <jphoward@...>
>>
>>
>>
>>Forwarded by John Howard:
>>
>>Michael tells you the answers at the end of the month, so you can even learn
>>something from this quiz.
>>My entry is in already, but I don't know what chemical rays are.  Does
>>anyone?
>>
>Hi John.
>All I know of is "Chemical Energy" may-be the rays are a product.
>"chemical energy-energy change (eg the burning of liquid hydrogen in liquid
>oxygen) which produces new substances (eg water) but leaves the atoms
>unchanged. In chemical reactions, energy changes liberate heat (are
>exothermic) or absorb heat (are endothermic) and involve changes only to
>the outermost electrons of the atom leaving the nuclei intact" the heat
>could be a ray!
>Or it could refer to Ionization, seperation of one or more electrons
>creates free electrons when they recombine they form electromagnetic
>radiation eg light and ultraviolet, these could be in the form of rays also.
>Steve (I read a book once) J
PPS may-be "solar wind" I forgot about that one! sorry

>>>
>>>For those who came in late:
>>>
>>>The Star Class web site runs a quiz each month
>>>>The prize for the JUNE Star Quiz is:
>>>>
>>>>UNIVERSE IN FOCUS: The Story of the Hubble Space Telescope
>>>>by Stuart Clark (1997)
>>>>Recommended Retail Price: $29.95
>>>>
>>>>JUNE Star Quiz (available from June 1)
>>>><http://www.effect.net.au/m.macdonald/quiz/questions4.html>
>>>>
>>>>And as always - please tell your friends. This will help Star Class to
>>keep
>>>>offering prizes.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>Michael MacDonald
>>>>Star Class - Astronomy Education
>>>><http://www.angelfire.com/sc/starclass>
>>and click on the Star Quiz link.
>>>><mailto:star_class@...>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>How has ONElist changed your life?
>>Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

At 02:57 PM 17/06/99 +1100, you wrote:
>From: "J & P Howard" <jphoward@...>
>
>
>
>Forwarded by John Howard:
>
>Michael tells you the answers at the end of the month, so you can even learn
>something from this quiz.
>My entry is in already, but I don't know what chemical rays are.  Does
>anyone?
>
Hi John.
All I know of is "Chemical Energy" may-be the rays are a product.
"chemical energy-energy change (eg the burning of liquid hydrogen in liquid
oxygen) which produces new substances (eg water) but leaves the atoms
unchanged. In chemical reactions, energy changes liberate heat (are
exothermic) or absorb heat (are endothermic) and involve changes only to
the outermost electrons of the atom leaving the nuclei intact" the heat
could be a ray!
Or it could refer to Ionization, seperation of one or more electrons
creates free electrons when they recombine they form electromagnetic
radiation eg light and ultraviolet, these could be in the form of rays also.
Steve (I read a book once) J
>>
>>For those who came in late:
>>
>>The Star Class web site runs a quiz each month
>>>The prize for the JUNE Star Quiz is:
>>>
>>>UNIVERSE IN FOCUS: The Story of the Hubble Space Telescope
>>>by Stuart Clark (1997)
>>>Recommended Retail Price: $29.95
>>>
>>>JUNE Star Quiz (available from June 1)
>>><http://www.effect.net.au/m.macdonald/quiz/questions4.html>
>>>
>>>And as always - please tell your friends. This will help Star Class to
>keep
>>>offering prizes.
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
>>>Michael MacDonald
>>>Star Class - Astronomy Education
>>><http://www.angelfire.com/sc/starclass>
>and click on the Star Quiz link.
>>><mailto:star_class@...>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>How has ONElist changed your life?
>Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com
>
>

At 08:21 AM 18/06/99 PDT, you wrote:
>From: "Keith Ward" <kward@...>
>
>
>
>----------
>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The ONElist web site will be down for scheduled maintenance Sunday evening,
>> June 20, 1999. The web site will be off-line from 8pm to 10pm Pacific Time,
>> while we upgrade the system and add new features.
>>
>> Email delivery will not be affected during this time.
>>
>> Thanks for using ONElist!
>>
>>
>> The ONElist Team
>>Hi Keith and all.
I am back from "Buchan", what black skies!! They turn the camp ground
lights out at 11 pm it was so dark, how dark? I had trouble finding Crux,
there were so many stars to see. A dark sky is an great thing to behold.
Thanks for the loan of the equip. I will drop it of asap.
SteveJ>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Looking to expand your world?
>> http://www.onelist.com
>> ONElist has 170,000 e-mail communities from which to choose!
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>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Got an opinion?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Make it count!  Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now.
>
>

----------

>
> Hello,
>
> The ONElist web site will be down for scheduled maintenance Sunday evening,
> June 20, 1999. The web site will be off-line from 8pm to 10pm Pacific Time,
> while we upgrade the system and add new features.
>
> Email delivery will not be affected during this time.
>
> Thanks for using ONElist!
>
>
> The ONElist Team
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Looking to expand your world?
> http://www.onelist.com
> ONElist has 170,000 e-mail communities from which to choose!
>

Forwarded by John Howard:

Michael tells you the answers at the end of the month, so you can even learn
something from this quiz.
My entry is in already, but I don't know what chemical rays are.  Does
anyone?

>
>For those who came in late:
>
>The Star Class web site runs a quiz each month
>>The prize for the JUNE Star Quiz is:
>>
>>UNIVERSE IN FOCUS: The Story of the Hubble Space Telescope
>>by Stuart Clark (1997)
>>Recommended Retail Price: $29.95
>>
>>JUNE Star Quiz (available from June 1)
>><http://www.effect.net.au/m.macdonald/quiz/questions4.html>
>>
>>And as always - please tell your friends. This will help Star Class to
keep
>>offering prizes.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Michael MacDonald
>>Star Class - Astronomy Education
>><http://www.angelfire.com/sc/starclass>
and click on the Star Quiz link.
>><mailto:star_class@...>
>>
>>
>

>   Don't forget my barn-door mount for loan.  John Howard is trying it out
>at the moment.
>   Please keep me up to date with who has got the gadget any any point in
>time.
Yes, i still have thee Smiles mount.  I didn't get the same high quality
photo as Brad Wilson got using similar equipment.  The mount tracks well
(unless you don't tighten the lock nut enough and the the camera droops!)

I was going to try another roll before the meeting, but may have left it too
late.  If anyone wants to borrow John's mount, i can bring it along Thursday
night.  I believe les Bobruk may be interested.

John Howard

At 11:34 AM 9/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>From: john.smiles@...
>
>Hi Steve and other CADG-ers
>
>   Please keep me up to date with who has got the gadget any any point in
>time.
>
>>
>   cheers
>   John
.........................
>Still with John. Who has got some new gear? I can tell s/one has been
spending because of the rain..so own up!
By the By John H has mentioned to me that search lights from the fireworks
warehouse, Fyshwick and Watson/ Downer are lightinging the sky, I think
search lights are a no/no near an airport approach (I could be wrong) any
ideas, is Joe Hat. on this list?
Steve J.>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What do lizards and rock music have in common?
>http://www.onelist.com
>They both have communities at ONElist.  Find yours today!
>
>

As John Morland's e-mail is off-line today, he's asked me to notify everyone
that the viewing for Vince Ford's group at 8pm tonight (Wednesday) has been
cancelled because of the weather -- cold, wet and miserable.

Albert B

Keith, I think you deserve a round of cyber-applause in appreciation for
your toil for the CAS over many years - first as general committee member,
then school nights co-ordinator, key holder and telescope maker
extraordinaire. Your efforts and Kate's  haven't been in vain.

Mike Nelmes

Test message received. Thanks David for the site info -  I checked it out
last night and was impressed with the realism.
Mike Nelmes

Hi Steve and other CADG-ers
    Don't forget my barn-door mount for loan.  John Howard is trying it out
at the moment.
    Please keep me up to date with who has got the gadget any any point in
time.

    I'd really recommend trial of Steve's eq tracker, though.  One of the
bigger pluses of this mount over
    the barn-door is the fact that it'll run on 12volt battery rather than
240v, so you can take it out
    of Canberra's skyglow.  I've found this really important when using my
50mm and shorter camera lenses.

    cheers
    John

Hi Gang.
I'm back, but a little more controlled (but not censored) I think John
Smiles had a barn door camera tracker for loan. John I have an Eq mount
with drive and drive corrector it runs on 12 volt "gel pack" if you, or
others want to borrow it for some pics.let me know.

PS. What does DNA stand for..........answer: "National Dyslexics Association"
Steve J

Dave,
      I didn't get your message as I had messed up my own subscription here
at work but I saw your test posting on
another machine. Hopefully I am now on the list from this site.

List members,

You may now be aware that I have suspended, until further notice, all my
CAS activities and I apologise to anyone that this decision may effect. I
currently have irreconcilable differences with the current committee. I
attempted to post an explanation to the other list on two occasions but now
realise that I must have some sort of mail configuration problem. My new
mails re this list were OK but my forwarded mails seemed to go into the bit
bucket.

At home I currently have a rather temporary setup with a machine built up
from new and 2nd hand bits and pieces on which I have installed 3 operating
systems on the one drive, Caldera Linux, SuSE linux and Windows 95. I am
extremely impressed with the SuSE implementation.

This leads me to ask - can anyone recommend any linux astronomy software
along the lines of Redshift, Megastar etc. Being totally new (except for my
RAPT experiences) to Linux I am looking for a few shortcuts towards setting
up a useful system.

cheers

Keith

Hi all,
Since I haven't received any mails yet since joining the CADG I'm sending a test
message.
Also, here is a 'cool link' for any of you who may not be aware of the NASA
"solar system simulator".

http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/

Cheers,
David Bennet

Being unaware of all the facts in the situation I would still like to make
some points in relation to the CAS list.

An email list is designed to enable communication between people usually
for the purpose of discussing a common issue. Being on 5 different
unmoderated email lists apart from CAS I have experienced how they run and
how problems are solved. One of these lists in particular generates 50
emails a day!

The first thing to do is to establish the ground rules such that every
subscriber is aware of why the list exists, what is the general topic of
discussion (eg astronomy), and the expected etiquette. That way everyone
understands what is the go and what is not. Perhaps this was not done fully
for the CAS list. If astronomy and CAS related activities are the topics of
interest then the recent religious debate was OFF-TOPIC (OT). Similarly so
was the joke a subscriber posted.

Problems are dealt by a listmom or list admin. This is the person who
oversees the general running of the list and keeps people in check. Most of
the time the list deals with problems itself and the listmom is only called
to action if a serious offense has occurred or a war of words has broken
out and threatens to consume the list. Actions taken include sending
private emails to the troublemaker asking them to stop or to refrain from
such behaviour. More severe cases are threatened with removal from the list.

I subscribe to an astronomy list called ASTRO and I think about once every
6 months a religious debate breaks out and turns into an ugly war. The list
admin steps in and posts a message telling everyone to stop and reminds
them all that it is an inappropriate subject for the list. Beforehand he'll
send out private emails to the offenders to stop or be unsubscribed. This
always solves the problem. Anyone who continues and ignores the wishes of
the list admin is removed and that's that. Basically its a hands off
approach (unmoderated) until things start to get a bit out of hand and then
the list admin steps in and takes control. No one argues with the list
admin.

I believe that if the CAS list was to become a moderated list it will
perish and we will lose the opportunity to embrace the power of the net.
Also a moderated list is a nightmare for the list admin who will have to
approve every email before it is sent.

In regard to legal stuff...I think it's akin to a member of CAS standing up
in a CAS meeting and announcing that the society should boycott McDonalds
because they use rats for their burger meat or something else that is
libellous. That's there personal opinion and remains so even though it is
said during a general CAS meeting and should be noted in the minutes
(probably under other business). So if someone makes a libellous or
offensive remark on the CAS list it is their opinion and not the CAS.
Consider it like a letter to the editor. And if someone did say that on the
list then it would be OFF-TOPIC as it is inappropriate for the list so the
list admin would take action against that person accordingly either with a
personal email or by unsubscribing them.

Conclusion:

The priviledge of contributing to a society email list should only extend
to members who are willingly to use the facility responsibly. Take this
priviledge away from trouble makers rather than removing the entire list
from everyone altogether! Work out the rules, what its for, how to use it,
whats acceptable and whats not, and nominate a list admin who will have the
power and willingness to see that the integrity of the list is maintained
for the benefit of all of its subscribers.

Michael.
(These opinions are mine alone and do not represent the CAS in any way)

Keith,
Please disregard my last posting.  Boy, do I feel stupid. I just found I
have been sending HTML only. My teenage daughter changed the settings
because she thought it looked "cool" and didn't change it back. Computer
access in this family is being reviewed!
Sorry about that!

David

Keith,

>>Anyway something seems to have happened to your initial post - why is
there HTML wrapped around and within >>your text?
>>If nothing is obvious your end and other postings have the same problem I
may need to enlist some help.

Beats me. I do not use HTML in any emails because many recipients cannot
cope with it.  Wonder how this one will go.  Judging by some of the closing
comments on the CAS list I guess the number of participants on this list
will increase fairly quickly.

Cheers
David
Australian Model Engineering magazine

David,
	 Thanks for trying the new site. I'm still not quite sure how this thing
operates from the new subscriber perspective - I went through a different and
longer process in setting up and configuring the list to suit our requirements.
I believe the initial password is used in a verification process to filter out
invalid mail accounts  - in an attempt to foil would be spammers and address
harvesters - I have attempted to make the list as private ( I even selected the
option to prevent me from being notified of additions and deletions to the list)
as possible - all I know without delving into administrator functions is that we
already have 7 on but not who they are  - not too bad considering the list was
setup last night and a lot of people won't know of its existence until next
week.
Also I have the facility to immediately ban any specific email account if we
ever have any serious crap appear on the site but, and I am sure you are aware
of my views on this topic, if the list proceeds roughly as per the old site then
no one has any thing to fear and I feel we will have a good healthy forum for
discussions on a number of topics.

Anyway something seems to have happened to your initial post - why is there HTML
wrapped around and within your text?
If nothing is obvious your end and other postings have the same problem I may
need to enlist some help.

cheers

Keith
----------
> <html><div>Hello Keith (and all?),</div>
> <div>The message from Onelist was adequate, though I must admit that when
> I saw that it included a password, I thought &quot;Oh bother, do I have
> to remember that every time?&quot;.&nbsp; </div>
> <br>
> <div>I wonder how many have joined.</div>

>Did you get any sort of meaningful subscription message?

         I got this:
     Hello,

     This is an automatic notification message sent to tell you that you have
been
     added to the CADG list.


     ONElist
     http://www.onelist.com


         and I've received a couple of postings, so I I'm on.  Didn't see
anything about passwords.  The message I got didn't tell me how to post a
posting, but I can now.

     John Howard

<html><div>Hello Keith (and all?),</div>
<div>The message from Onelist was adequate, though I must admit that when
I saw that it included a password, I thought &quot;Oh bother, do I have
to remember that every time?&quot;.&nbsp; </div>
<br>
<div>I wonder how many have joined.</div>
<br>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>David&nbsp; Proctor</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>At 09:47 AM 6/5/99 -0700, you wrote:</div>
<div>&gt;From: &quot;Keith Ward&quot; &lt;kward@...&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;Dear all,</div>
<div>&gt;<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>This is
a test transmission .</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; Welcome to the list John and any others who have
joined.</div>
<div>&gt; In answer to your question John, all you need to do to send
mail to the list is to address it to CADG@....</div>
<div>&gt;Did you get any sort of meaningful subscription message? I
suspect that I have yet to configure an appropriate welcome message with
details concerning list functions.</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;cheers</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;Keith</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
-</div>
<div>&gt;How has ONElist changed your life?</div>
<div>&gt;Share your story with us at
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/"
EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.onelist.com</a></div>
&gt;
<br>

<b>Australian Model Engineering
</b><font face="Times New Roman, Times"><i>magazine</font></i> </html>

Dear all,
	 This is a test transmission .

  Welcome to the list John and any others who have joined.
  In answer to your question John, all you need to do to send mail to the list is
to address it to CADG@....
Did you get any sort of meaningful subscription message? I suspect that I have
yet to configure an appropriate welcome message with details concerning list
functions.

cheers

Keith

test transmission