The NanoNewsletter of The International NanoScience Community
26th July 2008 – Nr. 19
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TINC News:

Why to pay for advertisement in the field of nanotechnology?

The International NanoScience Community with more than 850 members
offer for August-September-November free banner place on the
front-page of the nanoscience social network!

http://www.nanopaprika.eu/profiles/blog/show?id=1612324%3ABlogPost%
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New topic:

Sensors for Cancer and "The Origin of our Entire Universe...

by David Woroner

http://www.nanopaprika.eu/group/fp7partnersearch/forum/topic/show?
id=1612324%3ATopic%3A22788

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New group: How make yours nano-webpage more popular

by Jacek

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rum/topic/show?id=1612324%3ATopic%3A22772

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9 new products in TINC-Shop

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WATER

by Jose Feneque, DVM

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Nano2Life annual meeting video recorded tutorials Crete 2008

by Jack

http://www.nanopaprika.eu/profiles/blog/show?id=1612324%3ABlogPost%
3A22387
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4N Newsletter

Editor: editor@...

Every week in your e-mail box!

Nano technology is a word mentioned in Vedas 25,000 years back.
In olden days Professionals cured Cancer, Coma, paralysis with this
Nano technology. I am doing PhD in this study. I will submit my thesis
in 2010. The word Nano belongs to Indian Vedas.

Dear Mr.Erin Casson,
I am not talking about the Jets, this I don,t know, even if in vedas
they mentioned it may be about something else.
But Erin, I wish I should submit the thesis by 2010, so that millions
of cancer patients get a hope on their life.
The pity in our educational system is that If I write a thesis even if
I find a life saving drug that can save millions of lives, I am not
suppose to reveal this  until the thesis is submitted.
Since this is for the highest degree.
Even though I registered with the University this  month, I am behind
this Vedas for the last 10 years. Some 5 years back I found the
mention about nano technology quoted in vedas, I applied my mind and
really found the method  of curing Coma, cancer, Paralysis, Diabetes
etc.,  If this nano method gets attraction I am confident that most of
the diseases will be cured in one or two years  with less cost so that
the poor also benefited.
But one thing Mr.Erin, I must get support from the Westerners who
should go in to the merit  of the application, and give credit. Don't
see that it is an Indian or omit the thesis and make a joke of it.
If Maxmuller and other European scholars thought as Vedas were only a
joke they might not have spent millions of pounds in reading  and 100s
of Europeans wouldn't have spent their life time in searching Vedas.
What they failed to get, I think I got it in an analytical way.

Hope my findings help others
Regards
Ramachandran

--- On Thu, 14/8/08, Erin Casson <solidstatefusion@...> wrote:

     From: Erin Casson <solidstatefusion@...>
     Subject: Nanotech, Vedas, VIMANAS!
     To: ramacchandran_r@...
     Date: Thursday, 14 August, 2008, 6:10 AM

     Hello my friend! I love India and Indian people. I also love
nanotechnology. I have studied and read about the Vimana flying ships
used in ancient India, and I know they are REAL and really worked. I
am interested to read your thesis when you write it.

     I believe the ancient Indians had nanotechnology and used it for
medicine, materials, military, science, energy, and more.

Space expansion can solve all nanotechnology abuse and accident
problems.

Assuming more than one space colony expanding out in space in
different directions, and assuming one or more has a runaway nano-
assembler problem; well, since the nano-assemblers are confined to
the given spaceship, they won't spread to the other space colonies
since there is 'space' between them.  What's more, space radiation
and the nano-assemblers eating on each other will eventually make
that mass harmless as far as any further nano-assemblers continueing
to run amok.  Almost any collision with massive rocky and even ice
bodies throughout the universe will result in extermination of the
lunp of runaway nano-assemblers.  Assuming that maybe general space
conditions don't finish the job actually leads to how space
expansion of many space colonies overcomes nano-terrorism.

A given space colony with nanotechnologies will have the means to
detect particles of all types really from general atoms and
molecules radio astronomers have been studying for decades now.
They should be able to detect the odd signature of a stray nano-
assembler out in space.  A stray nano-assembler out in space should
raise a few eyebrows anyways; if they don't, it's their fault for
not allowing thinking to occur.  Assuming a given space colony's
intellect hasn't been dimmed by irrationalists to the point of
ignoring outerspace, they have various means of defending oneself
from stray nano-assemblers(possibly nano-terrorism); they can use
nuclear, laser, or an intense radiation shield; or even Utility-fog.

Definding against nano-terrorism(at least from those outside a given
space-colony) has actually been delt with already.  Space colonies
expanding away from one another out in space has one more benefit
for overcoming nanotechnology accidents.  Basically, out in space,
nanotechnological accidents can be almost 100% overcome by making
nano-manufacturing ejectable out into space; if a nano-assembler
gets out of control, then detectors can tell say the rocket that the
nano-manufacturing unit is on to rocket off out in space; from
there, one can nuke, laser it; or, one could have the grey-goo mass
pointed at a local star(whether a nuclear burning star, or a newtron
or black hole!).

Seems to me that space expansion is the only way to make our nano-
future safe as far as I can tell.  I could go on and on about the
other benefits of human expansion out into space like overcoming
human's social propensity for becoming dogmatic which I would think
has been proven throughout human written history as a danger to
humanity . . . since after all, Humanity is the technologically
dependent species.  Out in space, if a given space colony gets
ideologically split, they can split and go their separate ways;
those who are wrong with run into problems with themselves like the
way the Catholic Chrisitan church went through three bloody
revolutions during the dark ages.

On Monday 08 September 2008, okerdavid wrote:
>  Seems to me that space expansion is the only way to make our nano-
>  future safe as far as I can tell. I could go on and on about the
>  other benefits of human expansion out into space like overcoming
>  human's social propensity for becoming dogmatic which I would think
>  has been proven throughout human written history as a danger to
>  humanity . . . since after all, Humanity is the technologically
>  dependent species. Out in space, if a given space colony gets
>  ideologically split, they can split and go their separate ways;
>  those who are wrong with run into problems with themselves like the
>  way the Catholic Chrisitan church went through three bloody
>  revolutions during the dark ages.

You might be interested in a few projects aimed towards this, like the
Artemis society or Project Virgle.

http://oscomak.net/
http://google.com/virgle
http://openvirgle.net/
http://heybryan.org/exp.html
http://sugarshot.org/ (joking sightly less than Virgle)

The main reasons for doing it are other than nanotechnological safety
concerns / fearmongering, but that works too. Good luck.

- Bryan
________________________________________
http://heybryan.org/
Engineers: http://heybryan.org/exp.html
irc.freenode.net #hplusroadmap

--- In CRNtalk@yahoogroups.com, Erin Casson <solidstatefusion@...>
wrote:
>
> What do you say to Drexler's idea of a Nano Immune System that
permeates all human bodies and the world, and makes sure the dangerous
nano does not kill people or hurt people? What are the weaknesses and
downsides to this? I could already see two: 1 How do you make sure it
works? And 2 Who determines who programs it? What if corrupt tyrannical
government people and others try to hack the Immune Nano and use it
against citizenzs?
>  


I'd just like to remakr that I find it curious that nobody from Crn
much less Eric Drexler himself ever bothers to respond to anybody who
points out such problems; i just find it kindof curious; them and Bill
Joy are so quick to argue that scientists are 'mad scientists' out to
take over the world;

--- In CRNtalk@yahoogroups.com, Erin Casson <solidstatefusion@...>
wrote:
>
> What do you say to Drexler's idea of a Nano Immune System that
permeates all human bodies and the world, and makes sure the
dangerous nano does not kill people or hurt people? What are the
weaknesses and downsides to this? I could already see two: 1 How do
you make sure it works? And 2 Who determines who programs it? What
if corrupt tyrannical government people and others try to hack the
Immune Nano and use it against citizenzs?
>  

Ope, I'm already back.

In terms of Eric Drexler's idea about auto-immunization defence's, I
seem to recall him and maybe others already feeling pretty
disatisfied with that idea.

In terms of using it in my scheme(I'm the first to think of this as
far as I know), it won't happen; all nano-manufacturing is kept
ejectable; the only nanotechnology throughout the rest of the space-
colony products of nano-manufacturing without any nano-manufacturing
capability on their own; they're not going to do anything; or, you
design them to be so and once again all nano-manufacturing is kept
in an ejectable module.

Dna-nanotechnology could be allowed in the rest of the space colony
though and other soft-nanotechnologies that are bio-degradable.

I'm not sure I want to reply to the terrorits or govenrment gone
wacky part; although, I'm getting some hints in my brain that my
ejectable nano-manufacturing idea can solve that one also!  The
solution maybe many; for instance, nobody will be allowed to open up
the ejectable nano-manufacturing module without a democratic
consent.  That's more or less what I'm thinking; i don't think that
is anywhere close to the last word on that though.

Hi Erin, David

It seems that you are both new to this area.
CRN and Drexler and Lifeboat Foundation have spent years discussing
the risks and helping suggest
various safety protocols (Foresight nanotech safety).

At the Foresight conferences that were held annually and at senior
associate gatherings
there was discussion on all of the various risks and better ways to
handle advanced technology of all kinds.

===
There have been various proposals for defences against bio and nano threats.

http://lifeboat.com/ex/bio.shield

http://lifeboat.com/ex/nano.shield


http://lifeboat.com/ex/space.habitats

===

there will not be perfect safety. There are people now who can start
wars, start nuclear wars, and individuals can kill other people. In
the 20th century 200 million violent deaths.

So there needs to be consideration of differential risks.

There are actions that can be taken to improve safety and provide more
safety margin.

This a long discussion which has been covered a lot and there was not
anything new in what was being posted here so that was why there was
not much response.

There have been extensive CRN writings on the topic of risks and
defences in regards to nanotechnology and bioweapons. The CRN sites
are not responding well now but when I get the time and the site is
responding I will find the relavant writings.

Brian Wang
Director of Research Lifeboat Foundation
Member CRN taskforce

Brian Wang

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 1:19 PM, okerdavid <oker59@...> wrote:
> --- In CRNtalk@yahoogroups.com, Erin Casson <solidstatefusion@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> What do you say to Drexler's idea of a Nano Immune System that
> permeates all human bodies and the world, and makes sure the dangerous
> nano does not kill people or hurt people? What are the weaknesses and
> downsides to this? I could already see two: 1 How do you make sure it
> works? And 2 Who determines who programs it? What if corrupt tyrannical
> government people and others try to hack the Immune Nano and use it
> against citizenzs?
>>
>
> I'd just like to remakr that I find it curious that nobody from Crn
> much less Eric Drexler himself ever bothers to respond to anybody who
> points out such problems; i just find it kindof curious; them and Bill
> Joy are so quick to argue that scientists are 'mad scientists' out to
> take over the world;
>
>

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0653.html

nano immune system discussed in the kurzweil essay.

In general the hijacking of a nanoimmune system is similar problem to
keeping control of a computer system now or keeping command and
control of weapons.

Also, the fact that something can be hijacked does not mean not building it.

It is like not installing computer virus protection. Your computer can
still be turned into a zombie and not having protection is worse than
having flawed protection.

People can always kill you some other way than with your own defense.

Brian Wang

nanotechnology (and advanced technology) for military purposes is not
just about tiny nanobots as weapons or nanobio weapons.

I wrote an article that is we have advanced nano then we have powerful
space access and travel capabilities.

There are many ways to have really good space capabilities with strong nanotech.

You can have this even without nanotech. Again many ways.

What that means is that whoever has that capability (country or group)
can make powerful kinetic weapons.
Kinetic weapons more powerful than nuclear bombs and tougher to defend against.

Think steering a dinosaur extinction asteroid.
But if you went deep into the Kuiper belt or Oort comet cloud and had
metamaterials you could make your spaceship and your big rocks
invisible.

Invisible extinction event rocks.

Magnetic fields would not mean squat for defence against it.

Offense is stronger than defense. That is why you have to spread out
in space and have the ability to be mobile.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0672.html

Brian Wang

Is this what your looking for?

http://www.physorg.com/news140348666.html

Actually, this might be more like what your looking for!

http://www.physorg.com/news140438326.html

Looks like there is no real objection to my solution to nano-accidents;
in light of the recent Lhc hacking, I've come to see that my space
colony ejectable nano-manufacturing solves the early foresight
societies worries about privacy.

If you've got more than one group of people in their own space colony
using their own developed nanotechnologies, then because they are not
standardized with respect to one another . . . well, it's like two
different languages; they can kind of translate, but not really; and,
in the computer world, when you don't have every colon, dot, hyphen and
so on readable to a computer, the computer program doesn't work.

And oh yes, two space colonies going their separate ways . . . more
privacy!  The wonders an open and rigorous mind can do;

Hi,

why is it that nano assemblers use DNA type chemical assemblers? Is it
not possible to create a nano assembler that does not use natural-dna-
type assembly? How would one go about creating a total non-biological
type nano assembler using only some kind of electronic means?

My name is aadil and I am doing MSC in Nanoelectronics and
Nanomechanics at the University of Sheffield, UK. Here I am intrested
to work on the topic ''LAB ON A CHIP''. As I am fresh student to this
emerging field and I have to write scientific essay on this topic, I
am hoping you people will help me about knowing this particular topic
''LAB ON A CHIP''. If some of you have material on this topic, please
do share with me.
Regards,