As you may know, last week the title to the CRO land was officially
signed over and filed with the county clerks office. So the six acres
in question is now officially ours.

The next phase of CRO development will begin soon, so I met with Brad
and Dan yesterday afternoon and we discussed what we thought our next
steps should be as well as to make sure we were all up to date on
everything to this point.

Let me recap where we are right now. A new member that has spoken both
with Brad and with me about this has graciously offered us some pro
bono architectural work. He is ready to go and we will get him going
soon.

I have also been offered a pro bono title search on the land. I don't
see how there could possibly be a problem with this land and as long as
we have not yet done any development, there can not be a problem as we
have yet to incur any legal responsibilities. But we'll get this done
soon and that will be done before we need it.

We all agreed that we are basically waiting on two things before we
proceed with funding efforts.

1) Professional conceptual drawings
2) Reasonable cost estimates

We have the production pieces being developed at Francis Tuttle
Institute right now. They should be done in a few weeks. These can be
used (depending upon how they turn out) in conjunction with each fund
raising effort.  However important and useful these may be, they should
not stop our efforts if they are not yet ready.

Completed architectural designs can be used as fund raising drawings
and will give us a detailed cost estimate as well.

We are probably a little early in actually requesting funds for this
project before these two things are ready. But I would like us to be
ready when these steps are completed. The time to investigate what
grants are available and what each will require is upon us.

At our next meeting on the 13th, I will officially announce the
formation of a CRO Development committee. This committee will deal with
both the physical development plans and the fund raising efforts. I see
it breaking into two sub committees fairly rapidly but I would like to
have everyone together at first as a general kick off meeting.

Some of the things I would like to have us discuss will include whom in
the professional community as well as the fund raising community we
should be contacting. Obviously we will get in contact with Dr. Osell
at NOC, Gary Hug and Mike Ford at Far Point Observatory as well as a
number of other people in the professional astronomy community. Dan has
made contact with a professional fund-raiser already. He is interested
in our project but agrees that we need to have a cost estimate and
professional drawings done first. I will also be contacting some of the
asteroid hunters I know about whatever they can offer in terms of the
physical plans they used in construction of their observatories.

Brad already has a lead on a number of funding options, and will be
investigating more before we meet again.

So, we will proceed with the naming of the committee on Jan 13th. That
committee will meet later in the month, and discuss our next steps. I
assume that most (if not all) of the people who are in this group will
be joining our team. I think we have the people needed to get this done
even if all of the individual talents are not yet represented. I have
found that the more I talk about this project, the more the people
around me get interested and want to help out.

Once we have met as a committee, I think everyone will have a better
idea of what talents we will need to accomplish the tasks at hand. Once
those are known each of us will know people who can do a few of them,
and we will know the other talents which we ourselves must acquire to
get this done. Then with a little focus and effort, we as a club can
get this done.

2006 is here, here we go,
Jeff

Hi Guys,

I just added two docs to the file area, a checklist for observatory
construction and a sample request-for-proposal.  I got both of them
from DFM Engineering, a firm that builds telescopes for universities
and government agencies.

The sample RFP is particularly illuminating.  It shows the number of
technical details we're going to have to agree on before we go scope
shopping...assuming, that is, that we want a professional
installation, and not a high-end amateur scope.

IMHO it's time we recruit an advisory committee of professional
astronomers from the local universities.  Anybody willing to help me
compile a short list?

Roger

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CheddarRanchObservatory
group.

   File        : /Sample telescope RFP.doc
   Uploaded by : rbrensvold <rbrensvold@...>
   Description : Example of a request-for-proposal

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CheddarRanchObservatory/files/Sample%20telescope%2\
0RFP.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

rbrensvold <rbrensvold@...>

Roger,

Could you load those attachments into the files section please?

They did not load.

Jeff

Thanks for the info Chad. As you indicate this would not fulfill all
of our needs as 'creation of lab space' is our number one goal right
now, but as we move forward having a list of potential donors would
be a very good thing to maintain.

As far as collaborative efforts are concerned, all I can say is "You
bet'cha!" We look forward to the day when we can work in concert with
other observatories both near and far.

Jeff

PS Sorry on the delay on getting your message posted. I have 'new
members' set to moderate status. As soon as I see that it is a non-
spammer I turn that off individually so you should be able to post
freely from now on. We may not need that feature here but in the
other groups I moderate I find that it makes the group a lot cleaner
and more user friendly for everyone.



--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Chad"
<stellarwave@y...> wrote:
>
> The National Science Foundation has a grant opportunity called:
> Program for Research and Education with Small Telescopes (PREST)
that
> ya'll might be interesting in eventually writing a proposal for.
The
> deadline for the grant proposal submission is 5pm local time on
> January 20th and every year thereafter. What would most likely
prevent
> the club from pursuing this grant right away is that "Major
> construction such as the creation of lab space is not an allowable
> cost." I've uploaded a PDF about this grant in the Files section.
> Just throwing this out for your records next year, thereafter or
> whenever a permanent structure is established at CRO.
>
> Not sure if ya'll wanted to collaborate on grants with the SLLO?
> Occultation observations from 'nearby' separate locations such as
> these yields more information about these events and could provide
> an 'in' for obtaining automated high speed photometry equipment &
> large aperture instrumentation.
>

The National Science Foundation has a grant opportunity called:
Program for Research and Education with Small Telescopes (PREST) that
ya'll might be interesting in eventually writing a proposal for. The
deadline for the grant proposal submission is 5pm local time on
January 20th and every year thereafter. What would most likely prevent
the club from pursuing this grant right away is that "Major
construction such as the creation of lab space is not an allowable
cost." I've uploaded a PDF about this grant in the Files section.
Just throwing this out for your records next year, thereafter or
whenever a permanent structure is established at CRO.

Not sure if ya'll wanted to collaborate on grants with the SLLO?
Occultation observations from 'nearby' separate locations such as
these yields more information about these events and could provide
an 'in' for obtaining automated high speed photometry equipment &
large aperture instrumentation.

I certainly think that time table would be better.

With the Mars Party plus other events chewing into our time and our
sanity lately I've kind of let the trip to Far Point slip off the
calendar for this month.

A March time frame will give us a better shot at going to Topeka for a
weekend and meeting with Gary Hug and Mike Ford so that we can get a
number of grant writing ideas - as well as just having fun hanging out
with the seasoned asteroid hunters!

Jeff

I certainly think that time table would be better.

With the Mars Party plus other events chewing into our time and our
sanity lately I've kind of let the trip to Far Point slip off the
calendar for this month.

A March time frame will give us a better shot at going to Topeka for a
weekend and meeting with Gary Hug and Mike Ford so that we can get a
number of grant writing ideas - as well as just having fun hanging out
with the seasoned asteroid hunters!

Jeff

Roger,

Our plan does call for two different scopes. One in the dome and one
in the roll off roof. So I see no problem in going after one scope
that has a wide field of view and another that has maximum light
gathering power.

I agree on you assesment and that is why I asked. Most places that
see requests are going to pay attention to how you present yourself
each time you contact them. To give off a confused or amateurish
impression the first time out can often mean the end of a project.

I have said it before that we are progressing nicely and should
probably do our best to keep our sequence of events in order.

We probably do need to finalize the land transfer and it would also
help if we get the presentation pieces back from Francis Tuttle
before we start contacting the people we really think will be our
most likely sources of funds.

At least that is my sentiment in the timing of this...

Jeff

PS - 11 and 12 year olds. Now you see what my life coaching Jr High
hockey is like.

They can be wild, but I love 'em...

•  Visit your group "CheddarRanchObservatory" on the web.
   
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Any idea on what catagories the Inasmuch Foundation gives to?

Would an observatory building project fall into one of them?

If so, how do we find out more about them?

Jeff (20 questions) Tibb




--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, bferguson@u... wrote:
>
> Did anyone see the list of Inasmuch Foundation grantees in
yesterday's
> Oklahoman? ( Inasmuch is money left by Edith Gaylord Harper.)  They
even
> gave to someone's rock and mineral museum.  I think their next
deadline is
> January 15th.
>
> I apply and generally get $5000 each year for Chamber Music in
Oklahoma
> since one of their board members is also one of ours.
>
> BF
>
>
>
> "Jeff Tibb" <jefftibb01@y...>
> Sent by: CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com
> 11/09/2005 10:21 PM
> Please respond to
> CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [CheddarRanchObservatory] Re: Grant submission date
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roger,
>
> Is this a regularly rotating grant that occurs every 3 months?
>
> Is there any penalty for submitting a failed attempt and coming
back in
> 90 days to try again?
>
> How much detail do we need to agree on before submission?
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Roger B. Rensvold"
> <rbrensvold@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > Am I missing out, or has there actually been no posting to this
list
> > in over a week?
> >
> > Dan made a couple of valid points on 1 Nov;  first, the land
> > acquisition hasn't been approved, and the transfer hasn't taken
place
> > yet.  Second, the artist's renderings of the proposed buildings
> > haven't been finished yet.
> >
> > Maybe it would be a good idea to set our sights on the 1 March
> > submission date, and forget 1 Dec.  Opinions?
> >
> > Roger
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "CheddarRanchObservatory" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  CheddarRanchObservatory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

•  Visit your group "CheddarRanchObservatory" on the web.
   
•  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  CheddarRanchObservatory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
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Roger,

Is this a regularly rotating grant that occurs every 3 months?

Is there any penalty for submitting a failed attempt and coming back in
90 days to try again?

How much detail do we need to agree on before submission?


Jeff


--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Roger B. Rensvold"
<rbrensvold@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Am I missing out, or has there actually been no posting to this list
> in over a week?
>
> Dan made a couple of valid points on 1 Nov;  first, the land
> acquisition hasn't been approved, and the transfer hasn't taken place
> yet.  Second, the artist's renderings of the proposed buildings
> haven't been finished yet.
>
> Maybe it would be a good idea to set our sights on the 1 March
> submission date, and forget 1 Dec.  Opinions?
>
> Roger
>

Hi Guys,

Am I missing out, or has there actually been no posting to this list
in over a week?

Dan made a couple of valid points on 1 Nov;  first, the land
acquisition hasn't been approved, and the transfer hasn't taken place
yet.  Second, the artist's renderings of the proposed buildings
haven't been finished yet.

Maybe it would be a good idea to set our sights on the 1 March
submission date, and forget 1 Dec.  Opinions?

Roger

I see that Trav has uploaded the plans already.  Thanks Trav.

Roger,

You’re more or less thinking along the same lines as am I as far as
equipment goes but I’d add the caveat that we can be somewhat flexible.
What I envision as next steps are…

1. Complete the land acquisition and get it approved by the members.  The
latter I think is a gimme and I expect this will be done by the end of the
year.

2. Get the presentation artwork completed with the vo-tech.  That’s based on
the prelim plans that Trav has uploaded and can be used for web pages and
presentation pieces for use in our fund raising effort.  Those preliminary
plans have been through a bit of vetting by an ad hoc group of us but don’t
necessarily represent the final product, i.e., I expect the design can be
improved somewhat by someone that knows what they are doing… like an
architect.

3. Begin architectural design studies.  The primary purpose of this, at this
time, is to get reasonably accurate construction estimates to establish fund
raising goals as well as to improve the design.

4. Establish phases of development.  This assumes that we’ll not be so lucky
as to actually get handed a check for the entire smash.  A safe assumption I
think.

5. Implement those phases as fund raising allows.

Design considerations…

I believe selection of a scope at this time might be a bit premature but
only barely.  An essential element of the observatory design will be what
goes under the dome both initially and perhaps as an upgrade later.  For
instance, because of cost constraints, we may choose to put a largish SCT
under the dome initially with plans to upgrade that to an RC or a long
Cassegrain design later on.  If so, our design and construction of the pier
and its footing needs to accommodate the upgrade as well as possible to
avoid as much as possible destruction and reconstruction of the facility.
We must, to some degree, design an observatory around the instrument rather
than trying to shoehorn the instrument in after the fact.  Thus, it’s
certainly time to think about what we want in there both for the short term
and long term but I don’t have room in my garage for a 30” RC at the moment.
I may make room if you get us one however! ;-)

Regardless, certainly we want a first class, research grade scope (I’ll call
this an RC) under that dome and optimally it will be equipped for remote
operation via the internet.  Further, you’ll note in the design a roll on,
roll off (ro-ro) observatory.  My intent in adding that was to provide a
home for members’ scopes on some sort of a lease basis or whatever
arrangement the club comes up with for its use.  These are indeed versatile
(although they also have some drawbacks) and you can see that this
particular design accommodates two scopes.  That same design can be chopped
in half down the middle to accommodate one scope if we wish and we may
choose to do this but build multiple ro-ros on a single user basis.

As far as usage…

I would expect the majority of education efforts out there to be similar to
our school visits we currently do but enhanced first, by much better sky
obviously, second, by the inclusion of a controlled classroom environment
for presentations and other teaching in advance of observing.

The remainder of such events is basically walk them to the observing pads
for our normal sort of observing through a variety of member and/or club
scopes on a more or less volume basis, i.e., we’ve got thirty kids out there
for one evening and must run them through quickly.  We’ll tour them through
the domed observatory’s control room so they can see a research grade scope
but most of the observing happens on the pads.  I don’t expect the big guy
to be terribly amenable to visual observing by a crowd simply because of the
pier height if we have a reasonable head clearance under the dome ring.

Also, I don’t want to see some 4th grader hanging on an RC truss like a
monkey bar thus, access to the RC should be quite limited.  There’s just too
much money sitting on top of that pier for it to be wide open so the RC will
primarily be an instrumented setup for photography, photometry, spectroscopy
and whatever other instrument we choose to hang on it as well as visual work
by primarily club members only and only after a training session and check
flight in its use or direct supervision as the club sees fit.

In addition to field trips, scout outings and such, I hope there will be
some more personal mentoring going on for our participation in science fair
projects and the like.  I’ll use Jeff as a guinea pig.  He may choose to
work with a student on a variable star observing project.  Obviously, if the
RC is available, and if it’s properly equipped with a photometer, have at
it!  If not, visual observing and measurement via the means Jeff currently
uses, and with his own equipment, is perfectly adequate for the project.
There might also be, and probably optimally would be, a combination of both
methods to expose the student to both methods and equipment types.

Likewise, if I were to take on a student, I might steer the student to maybe
planetary climatology studies using my own expertise of astrophotography.
If the RC is available, great!  Use it!  If not, I can easily use my own
equipment hopefully setup in the ro-ro to avoid setup time inherent with an
astrophotography rig.

Other educational aspects might be college graduate research.  In this case,
we simply set up a committee or a triad or something that reviews proposals
for telescope time and allocates according to merit and availability with
member research projects taking priority.

Consider yet other things…

We have six acres available to us.  The current plans use only one of them
so there’s plenty of room to expand.  I’ve got on my mental list of phases
additional ro-ros and observing pads if the demand and the funding required
to build them is there.  In addition, I’d like to seriously consider the
addition of a radio astronomy observatory including a tracking dish and
other antenna types; something I’m calling the VSA. ;-)  I don’t know enough
about RA to speak intelligently on that but we have some in the club that
do.  There’s all kinds of possibilities and no need to make everything we do
out there visual light astronomy assuming the locale is reasonably radio
quiet.

The dimensions of our six acres out there are designed to accommodate
expansion east and west from the original acre or so that we use for the
base facilities so that southern exposures are always available as we
expand.

The design as currently laid out is versatile, 1) for phasing in the initial
facility, 2) for usage, 3) for later expansion.  All it takes is money!

Dan

________________________________________
From: CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Tibb
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:44 AM
To: CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CheddarRanchObservatory] Re: Joining the group

Welcome Aboard Roger!

Dan is pretty busy right now so he may not be able to log on for a
few days and post the excellent preliminary drawings that he has
already put together so I'll hop in a little as I have seen them.

These drawings that we took to Francis Tuttle have a large classroom
located at the north end of the complex with a door to the parking
lot to allow public access, and a door to the south to allow us out
into the complex.

There is a common cement slab with power just south of there.

We also have one classic observatory dome and one roll off roof
building. Each has it's own computerized control center.

To the north west there is a common bunkhouse with a partition to
seperate the sexes.

These preliminary drawings were gone over in pretty good detail by a
number of people on the board and the land committee, and then
submitted to Francis Tuttle in order to get presentation pieces from
them done as a CAD CAM class project.

As soon as Dan gets a few minutes I would like for him to post copies
of those drawings (you have all seen them on our tack up boards at
the Mars Opposition Party and they should make it to the next club
meeting as well) here in the group.

With those parameters (yes we are aggressively attempting to build a
GREAT observatory here) we are really asking 'What Type Of Telescope
Should we be asking for in this grant proposal?'

Since right now it is 'not our money', I say that we should ask for
the most advanced research instrument that we could get.

So let us not concern ourselves too much with other parameters here,
but just 'What would we like to have?'

The initials R-C come immediately to my mind.

Jeff




--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Roger B. Rensvold"
<rbrensvold@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Here I am, I think. I'm not particularly computer-literate, being
> accustomed to having slaves (i.e., graduate students) take care of
> things like this for me.
>
> I outlined my preliminary position in a longish email to Jeff. 
I'll
> cut-and-paste the body of it below.
>
> Roger
>
> ----------------------
>
> <snip>
>
> For starters, let's hear a rationale for buying two scopes.  If
> we're interested in doing or sponsoring serious research while
still
> catering to the high school crowd, maybe what we really want is
> one "serious" scope and a half-dozen 8" Newts on the cheapest
> serviceable equatorial mounts we can find (for visual work only). 
> Or one serious scope and a collection of smaller scopes with
> different configurations; e.g., a set of giant binocs, an achromat,
> a Newt, a Schmidt-Cass, and a Maksutov, so students can learn
> about the advantages and drawbacks of different designs. (We could
> probably collect a lot of small stuff like that if we went
> begging..."Joints can't take the night air anymore?  Eyes going
> bad?  Donate your equipment to your club!  Contributions fully tax-
> deductable!")
>
> Or, if we're more interested in research and are willing to let the
> kiddies wait in line, maybe we want a large-apeture instrument for
> photometric and spectroscopic work and a smaller, specialized
> instrument for wide-field imaging.  The model here is the 200" Hale
> and the 48" Schmidt on Palomar Mountain.
>
> The advantage of having one large, expensive instrument is the
> prestige it conveys.  If we had "the largest telescope available to
> the Oklahoma general public," it would be a natural focal point
> whenever some astro event like an eclipse or opposition made news. 
> If Channel 5 wanted to go remote for the story, CRO would be the
> place to go...a parking lot, power, easy uplinks, a building, a
> dome, a scope, a coffee pot, and knowledgeable people to interview
> (like Jeff).  The prestige would also appeal to the grant-makers,
> since it would keep the family name before the public.  We'd put a
> plaque on the pier identifying the beast as "The T.H. McCasland
> Memorial Telescope," and hold a formal unveiling ceremony, with
> local dignitaries in attendance. Whenever the Oklahoman published
> one of our astrophotos, the byline would be, "McCasland Telescope,
> OKC Astro Club."
>
> A related issue is what sort of building we want to put up.  I like
> domes...they look the way an observatory is supposed to look...but
> other designs are more flexible.  I saw one I especially liked in
> Australia, on the bushy edge of nowhere ca. 100 miles northeast of
> Perth.  It looked a bit like a warehouse, with cinderblock walls
and
> a sheet metal roof.  The entire roof rolled off, exposing a large
> concrete floor supporting a variety of instruments, including a 25"
> Obsession.  The mission was 100% education and public outreach, and
> none of the instruments were capable of serious research.  For a
> photo, see
>
> http://www.gdc.asn.au/seestars.php
>
> We might want something like that, only smaller, in addition to our
> dome.
>
> Anyway, those are my preliminary thoughts. Next!
>
> Roger
>





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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CheddarRanchObservatory
group.

   File        : /Site Plans.pdf
   Uploaded by : cheeto4493 <cheeto4493@...>
   Description : same as word doc

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CheddarRanchObservatory/files/Site%20Plans.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

cheeto4493 <cheeto4493@...>

I hope you don't mind Dan, but I posted the files we had gone over
earlier. the only thing really lacking is a more wide area shot showing
the buildings on the property w/ the hedging and the gate to the west,
maybe with the barn in relation and the corner markers showing how much
we're developing at the moment.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CheddarRanchObservatory
group.

   File        : /Site Plans.doc
   Uploaded by : cheeto4493 <cheeto4493@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CheddarRanchObservatory/files/Site%20Plans.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

cheeto4493 <cheeto4493@...>

Welcome Aboard Roger!

Dan is pretty busy right now so he may not be able to log on for a
few days and post the excellent preliminary drawings that he has
already put together so I'll hop in a little as I have seen them.

These drawings that we took to Francis Tuttle have a large classroom
located at the north end of the complex with a door to the parking
lot to allow public access, and a door to the south to allow us out
into the complex.

There is a common cement slab with power just south of there.

We also have one classic observatory dome and one roll off roof
building. Each has it's own computerized control center.

To the north west there is a common bunkhouse with a partition to
seperate the sexes.

These preliminary drawings were gone over in pretty good detail by a
number of people on the board and the land committee, and then
submitted to Francis Tuttle in order to get presentation pieces from
them done as a CAD CAM class project.

As soon as Dan gets a few minutes I would like for him to post copies
of those drawings (you have all seen them on our tack up boards at
the Mars Opposition Party and they should make it to the next club
meeting as well) here in the group.

With those parameters (yes we are aggressively attempting to build a
GREAT observatory here) we are really asking 'What Type Of Telescope
Should we be asking for in this grant proposal?'

Since right now it is 'not our money', I say that we should ask for
the most advanced research instrument that we could get.

So let us not concern ourselves too much with other parameters here,
but just 'What would we like to have?'

The initials R-C come immediately to my mind.

Jeff




--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Roger B. Rensvold"
<rbrensvold@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Here I am, I think. I'm not particularly computer-literate, being
> accustomed to having slaves (i.e., graduate students) take care of
> things like this for me.
>
> I outlined my preliminary position in a longish email to Jeff.
I'll
> cut-and-paste the body of it below.
>
> Roger
>
> ----------------------
>
> <snip>
>
> For starters, let's hear a rationale for buying two scopes.  If
> we're interested in doing or sponsoring serious research while
still
> catering to the high school crowd, maybe what we really want is
> one "serious" scope and a half-dozen 8" Newts on the cheapest
> serviceable equatorial mounts we can find (for visual work only).
> Or one serious scope and a collection of smaller scopes with
> different configurations; e.g., a set of giant binocs, an achromat,
> a Newt, a Schmidt-Cass, and a Maksutov, so students can learn
> about the advantages and drawbacks of different designs. (We could
> probably collect a lot of small stuff like that if we went
> begging..."Joints can't take the night air anymore?  Eyes going
> bad?  Donate your equipment to your club!  Contributions fully tax-
> deductable!")
>
> Or, if we're more interested in research and are willing to let the
> kiddies wait in line, maybe we want a large-apeture instrument for
> photometric and spectroscopic work and a smaller, specialized
> instrument for wide-field imaging.  The model here is the 200" Hale
> and the 48" Schmidt on Palomar Mountain.
>
> The advantage of having one large, expensive instrument is the
> prestige it conveys.  If we had "the largest telescope available to
> the Oklahoma general public," it would be a natural focal point
> whenever some astro event like an eclipse or opposition made news.
> If Channel 5 wanted to go remote for the story, CRO would be the
> place to go...a parking lot, power, easy uplinks, a building, a
> dome, a scope, a coffee pot, and knowledgeable people to interview
> (like Jeff).  The prestige would also appeal to the grant-makers,
> since it would keep the family name before the public.  We'd put a
> plaque on the pier identifying the beast as "The T.H. McCasland
> Memorial Telescope," and hold a formal unveiling ceremony, with
> local dignitaries in attendance. Whenever the Oklahoman published
> one of our astrophotos, the byline would be, "McCasland Telescope,
> OKC Astro Club."
>
> A related issue is what sort of building we want to put up.  I like
> domes...they look the way an observatory is supposed to look...but
> other designs are more flexible.  I saw one I especially liked in
> Australia, on the bushy edge of nowhere ca. 100 miles northeast of
> Perth.  It looked a bit like a warehouse, with cinderblock walls
and
> a sheet metal roof.  The entire roof rolled off, exposing a large
> concrete floor supporting a variety of instruments, including a 25"
> Obsession.  The mission was 100% education and public outreach, and
> none of the instruments were capable of serious research.  For a
> photo, see
>
> http://www.gdc.asn.au/seestars.php
>
> We might want something like that, only smaller, in addition to our
> dome.
>
> Anyway, those are my preliminary thoughts. Next!
>
> Roger
>

Here's some preliminary information on the grant I'm pursuing.

The McCasland Foundation is located in my home town of Duncan, and
hands out some of the money the McCasland family earns in oil
production.  They make grants as small as $1K and as large as
$500K.
They don't have an application form, but a letter I received the
Executive Director listed what they want to see:

1.  A copy of our 501C(3) letter from the IRS.
2.  A summary description of the organization, its services and
programs, and paid staff (if any).
3.  Most recent year-end financial statement and current year's
budget.
4.  Board of directors and officers
5.  "An exact and full explanation of the program for which the
granted funds will be used, including a budget."
6.  The specific amount requested.
7.  The amount of funds already raised for the program, and its
sources.

Points 1 through 4 are simple enough.  Points 5 and 6 are what
we're  going to be discussing.  Point 7 is problematical, since
we're so "po'" (as Oprah would say).  I think (and this is just a
guess) that they'd be more disposed to give money if we already had
a cash flow, and weren't planning to rely on them for everything.
But maybe not.

Travis (?) raised an excellent point about priorities.  Should we be
asking the foundation to finance a telescope, or a building to put
it in (and other infrastructure)?  Obviously we need both, and I'm
anxious to hear y'all's ideas on this issue.  I'm inclined to go for
the scope, because once we have it, or have it on order, it will
tend to attract the money and labor necessary to get the observatory
built.  I, for one, would be out there nailing boards like a madman,
if I knew we had a 20" Ritchey-Crit (or whatever) sitting in a crate
waiting for a home.

Which raises a related point:  Do we have any real working people in
the club; e.g. bricklayers, plumbers, carpenters, electricians; or
is everyone a worthless "intellectual" like myself?  I sure as hell
hope not  :>)  (IMHO it's no coincidence that 'intellectual' sounds
so much like 'ineffectual.')

Roger

Hi Guys,

Here I am, I think. I'm not particularly computer-literate, being
accustomed to having slaves (i.e., graduate students) take care of
things like this for me.

I outlined my preliminary position in a longish email to Jeff.  I'll
cut-and-paste the body of it below.

Roger

----------------------

<snip>

For starters, let's hear a rationale for buying two scopes.  If
we're interested in doing or sponsoring serious research while still
catering to the high school crowd, maybe what we really want is
one "serious" scope and a half-dozen 8" Newts on the cheapest
serviceable equatorial mounts we can find (for visual work only).
Or one serious scope and a collection of smaller scopes with
different configurations; e.g., a set of giant binocs, an achromat,
a Newt, a Schmidt-Cass, and a Maksutov, so students can learn
about the advantages and drawbacks of different designs. (We could
probably collect a lot of small stuff like that if we went
begging..."Joints can't take the night air anymore?  Eyes going
bad?  Donate your equipment to your club!  Contributions fully tax-
deductable!")

Or, if we're more interested in research and are willing to let the
kiddies wait in line, maybe we want a large-apeture instrument for
photometric and spectroscopic work and a smaller, specialized
instrument for wide-field imaging.  The model here is the 200" Hale
and the 48" Schmidt on Palomar Mountain.

The advantage of having one large, expensive instrument is the
prestige it conveys.  If we had "the largest telescope available to
the Oklahoma general public," it would be a natural focal point
whenever some astro event like an eclipse or opposition made news.
If Channel 5 wanted to go remote for the story, CRO would be the
place to go...a parking lot, power, easy uplinks, a building, a
dome, a scope, a coffee pot, and knowledgeable people to interview
(like Jeff).  The prestige would also appeal to the grant-makers,
since it would keep the family name before the public.  We'd put a
plaque on the pier identifying the beast as "The T.H. McCasland
Memorial Telescope," and hold a formal unveiling ceremony, with
local dignitaries in attendance. Whenever the Oklahoman published
one of our astrophotos, the byline would be, "McCasland Telescope,
OKC Astro Club."

A related issue is what sort of building we want to put up.  I like
domes...they look the way an observatory is supposed to look...but
other designs are more flexible.  I saw one I especially liked in
Australia, on the bushy edge of nowhere ca. 100 miles northeast of
Perth.  It looked a bit like a warehouse, with cinderblock walls and
a sheet metal roof.  The entire roof rolled off, exposing a large
concrete floor supporting a variety of instruments, including a 25"
Obsession.  The mission was 100% education and public outreach, and
none of the instruments were capable of serious research.  For a
photo, see

http://www.gdc.asn.au/seestars.php

We might want something like that, only smaller, in addition to our
dome.

Anyway, those are my preliminary thoughts. Next!

Roger

Travis,

I'm hoping that Roger is going to join the group and answer this
question. He is the one who contacted me about a specific grant and
he seemed to indicate that it would specifically be for 'a telescope'.

If he doesn't chime in in a day or two, I'll copy the note he sent to
me here and we can start discussing it at that point.

Jeff



--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Swaim"
<cheeto4493@y...> wrote:
>
> Jeff, you got some serious star trails on that image on the openig
> page ;-)
>
> In response to what should we ask for. Are we looking at one
> particular grant? Are there precidences for what they give grants
> for?
>
> I would say the whole shebang- buildings plus a scope to put in the
> dome. I would say a telescope is useless out there without some
> infrastructure first. Although  if get the grant for a scope then
> getting a grant for the building to go around it might be a little
> easier.
>
> --- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Tibb"
> <jefftibb01@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Please feel free to post as you like about any aspect of the
> Cheddar
> > Ranch that you feel should be discussed between the people most
> > interested in it's development.
> >
> > The first topic for discussion is a grant which Roger Rensvold is
> > planning on writing in order to actually get us a telescope for
the
> > site.
> >
> > The topic really is 'What should we ask for?'
> >
> > Hopefully Roger will be able to fill us all in with the details.
> >
> > If need be we can schedule a chat room session for an evening and
> meet
> > there instead of having to drive and meet face to face.
> >
> > So - Have at it folks!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>

Thanks for putting up this group. I would like to do the same thing for
the forums on the website, but that would mean loosing the past
messages, and having everyone re-register again. Also you'd have to put
up with yahoo adds.

Jeff, you got some serious star trails on that image on the openig
page ;-)

In response to what should we ask for. Are we looking at one
particular grant? Are there precidences for what they give grants
for?

I would say the whole shebang- buildings plus a scope to put in the
dome. I would say a telescope is useless out there without some
infrastructure first. Although  if get the grant for a scope then
getting a grant for the building to go around it might be a little
easier.

--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Tibb"
<jefftibb01@y...> wrote:
>
> Please feel free to post as you like about any aspect of the
Cheddar
> Ranch that you feel should be discussed between the people most
> interested in it's development.
>
> The first topic for discussion is a grant which Roger Rensvold is
> planning on writing in order to actually get us a telescope for the
> site.
>
> The topic really is 'What should we ask for?'
>
> Hopefully Roger will be able to fill us all in with the details.
>
> If need be we can schedule a chat room session for an evening and
meet
> there instead of having to drive and meet face to face.
>
> So - Have at it folks!
>
> Jeff
>

--- In CheddarRanchObservatory@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Tibb"
<jefftibb01@y...> wrote:
>
> Please feel free to post as you like about any aspect of the
Cheddar
> Ranch that you feel should be discussed between the people most
> interested in it's development.
>
> The first topic for discussion is a grant which Roger Rensvold is
> planning on writing in order to actually get us a telescope for the
> site.
>
> The topic really is 'What should we ask for?'
>
> Hopefully Roger will be able to fill us all in with the details.
>
> If need be we can schedule a chat room session for an evening and
meet
> there instead of having to drive and meet face to face.
>
> So - Have at it folks!
>
> Jeff
>
Sounds great Jeff...well what to ask for...um.  Everything if we can
get a grant for it!  But really we should just get the basics and if
we can participate in research like the KC group that might be even
more for us and the development of CRO.  Good luck and I am glad to
be on the ground floor of CRO and to be in the OKC Astronomy Club.
See ya at Hefner...

R. Christian

Please feel free to post as you like about any aspect of the Cheddar
Ranch that you feel should be discussed between the people most
interested in it's development.

The first topic for discussion is a grant which Roger Rensvold is
planning on writing in order to actually get us a telescope for the
site.

The topic really is 'What should we ask for?'

Hopefully Roger will be able to fill us all in with the details.

If need be we can schedule a chat room session for an evening and meet
there instead of having to drive and meet face to face.

So - Have at it folks!

Jeff