Invective bad. Puff piece good?
For personal blog OK.
For DSNA?

j p maher

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Dave Wilton <dave@...> wrote:

From: Dave Wilton <dave@...>
Subject: RE: [DSNA] Bees Wax
To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 10:57 PM

I was responding to the original poster's association of the phrase "mind
your own beeswax" with Elizabethan English. There is a oft-repeated popular
etymology for "mind your own beeswax" that falsely claims the phrase comes
from the practice of using sealing wax on envelopes, and it seems as if the
poster was taken in, to some degree, by this myth.

As to primary question about why dictionaries have ignored Shakespeare's
literal use of "bee's wax," I don't know the answer. (Which is why I didn't
originally attempt to answer that question; one or more of those dictionary
editors would be better equipped than I.)

But, since I'm halfway there already, I can postulate two reasons: 1) the
possessive noun phrase "bee's wax" is not considered a single lexical item
and is quite unremarkable. (The forms cited in the OED2 under the headword
"bees-wax" are "Bees Wax" and "beeswax.") 2) The editors just missed
Shakespeare's use of the term. This would seem unlikely since it's
Shakespeare, but stranger things have happened.

(I'm not sure what I've done to raise anyone's ire or to rate such
invective. I seldom post to this list--a total of seven posts, counting this
one, since the beginning of 2005--so I can't imagine why my rare posts, even
if unappreciated, could possibly considered a nuisance.)


-----Original Message-----
From: DSNA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSNA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J P
Maher
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 2:59 PM
To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax

Define "lots".
Jpm

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@...> wrote:

From: Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@...>
Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax
To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:54 PM











   
           
           


     
      Well, lots, actually. It depends what you're a lexicographer of:
EModE,

LModE, ME, OE, CanE, AmE, BrE, NZE, General English and so forth. I hope

we can benefit from our various areas of expertise and the way the

discussion was going was not at all conducive towards this end. We'll

see if this can be repaired for the sake of the group.

Stefan



Stefan Dollinger, Ph.D.

Asst. Prof. of English Language

Canadian English Lab, Director

University of British Columbia

Department of English

Ph: (604) 822-4017

http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/



J P Maher wrote:

>

>

> I'll retract my naughtiness. Replace it with:

>

> What is new for seasoned lexicographers in the Wilton post?

> jp maher

>

> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@interchange .ubc.ca

> <mailto:dstefan% 40interchange. ubc.ca>> wrote:

>

> From: Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@interchange .ubc.ca

> <mailto:dstefan% 40interchange. ubc.ca>>

> Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax

> To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>

> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 2:49 PM

>

> Maybe I'm missing some of the context here, but if this is the new tone

> on this discussion group, I'd be happy to leave it right away.

> Best wishes, and hoping that this was just an accident,

> Stefan

>

> Stefan Dollinger, Ph.D.

> Asst. Prof. of English Language

> Canadian English Lab, Director

> University of British Columbia

> Department of English

> Ph: (604) 822-4017

> http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/

> <http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/>

>

> J P Maher wrote:

> >

> >

> > Do we have to put up with Wilton? Have him post his sophomoric stuff

> > on his own website.

> >

> > j p maher

> > etymologist

> >

> > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Dave Wilton <dave@wilton. net

> <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>

> > <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>> wrote:

> >

> > From: Dave Wilton <dave@wilton. net <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>

> <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>>

> > Subject: RE: [DSNA] Bees Wax

> > To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>

> <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>

> > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:41 AM

> >

> > It's because you're dealing with two distinct usages.

> >

> > The literal "bee's wax," the substance secreted by hymenoptera, does

> > indeed

> >

> > date to Elizabethan times.

> >

> > But the slang "beeswax," meaning business, is an intentional and jocular

> >

> > malapropism that only dates to the 1930s and is American in origin. This

> >

> > slang sense has nothing to do with the literal wax, except insofar

> as the

> >

> > pronunciation can be deliberately mangled.

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> >

> > From: DSNA@yahoogroups. com [mailto:DSNA@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf

> > Of Scott

> >

> > Nelson

> >

> > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:19 AM

> >

> > To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com

> >

> > Cc: bolstar1@yahoo. com

> >

> > Subject: [DSNA] Bees Wax

> >

> > I have a question for anyone who might know why the OED, Random House,

> >

> > Merriam (dictionary & "Coined by Shakespeare" Merriam) don't list

> >

> > Shakespeare as having coined the word/phrase "bees-wax" or "mind

> your own

> >

> > bees wax." I know that everyone in Elizabethan times knew where wax for

> >

> > officially sealing various correspondences came from, but coinage

> > being what

> >

> > is is (the first recorded use of a term/expression) it's puzzling

> that the

> >

> > first listing in OED (online) lists the first use in 1676 -- MOXON Print

> >

> > lett. 12 "You may rub your stone over with little Bees Wax."; Merriam

> > lists

> >

> > 1664, Random lists 1670).

> >

> >      Yet II Henry VI 4.2.81-84 (1590-91) reads, "Some say the bee

> stings,

> >

> > but I say, 'tis the bee's wax: for I did but seal once to a thing, and

> > I was

> >

> > never mine own man since." I must be not be able to see the Amazon

> jungle

> >

> > for the trees.

> >

> > Scott N.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

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> >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

> >

>

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