Dear Erin McKean et al.,

Yes, DSNA should by all means be a convivial place for all with a love for word
study. The standards of contributions should be accessible to and instructional
for intelligent non-specialists, but they should also be up to standards of
experts in the field. As Meillet put it one of the greatest services of
specialists is to provide "oeuvres de vulgarisation". I hope DSNA does not
provide a forum for netymology, but as I don't want further to propagate
dyspepsia I agree to exercise my delete-key finger rather than my discordant
voice in future.
 J P Maher

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Erin McKean <editor@...> wrote:

From: Erin McKean <editor@...>
Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax
To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 8:29 AM

JP, I think you're WAY out of line on this.

First of all, the DSNA list is not solely for "seasoned lexicographers".
Others with an interest in dictionaries are members of the Society and
belong to the list.

Since fostering helpfulness was one of the original reasons for starting
the DSNA list, I thought Dave's answer both appropriate and kind -- and
since it didn't even include a link to his (well-respected) web site, it
hardly qualifies as self-promotion.

As the list moderator, I'd to ask you to stop now. If a topic on this
list (which is extremely low-traffic, compared to some) doesn't interest
you, feel free to use your "delete" key.

Erin

J P Maher wrote:
>
>
>
> Invective bad. Puff piece good?
> For personal blog OK.
> For DSNA?
>
> j p maher
>
> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Dave Wilton <dave@...
> <mailto:dave%40wilton.net>> wrote:
>
> From: Dave Wilton <dave@... <mailto:dave%40wilton.net>>
> Subject: RE: [DSNA] Bees Wax
> To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSNA%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 10:57 PM
>
> I was responding to the original poster's association of the phrase "mind
> your own beeswax" with Elizabethan English. There is a oft-repeated popular
> etymology for "mind your own beeswax" that falsely claims the phrase comes
> from the practice of using sealing wax on envelopes, and it seems as if the
> poster was taken in, to some degree, by this myth.
>
> As to primary question about why dictionaries have ignored Shakespeare's
> literal use of "bee's wax," I don't know the answer. (Which is why I didn't
> originally attempt to answer that question; one or more of those dictionary
> editors would be better equipped than I.)
>
> But, since I'm halfway there already, I can postulate two reasons: 1) the
> possessive noun phrase "bee's wax" is not considered a single lexical item
> and is quite unremarkable. (The forms cited in the OED2 under the headword
> "bees-wax" are "Bees Wax" and "beeswax.") 2) The editors just missed
> Shakespeare's use of the term. This would seem unlikely since it's
> Shakespeare, but stranger things have happened.
>
> (I'm not sure what I've done to raise anyone's ire or to rate such
> invective. I seldom post to this list--a total of seven posts, counting this
> one, since the beginning of 2005--so I can't imagine why my rare posts, even
> if unappreciated, could possibly considered a nuisance.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DSNA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSNA%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DSNA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSNA%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of J P
> Maher
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSNA%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax
>
> Define "lots".
> Jpm
>
> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@...
> <mailto:dstefan%40interchange.ubc.ca>> wrote:
>
> From: Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@...
> <mailto:dstefan%40interchange.ubc.ca>>
> Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax
> To: DSNA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DSNA%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:54 PM
>
> � �
> � � � � � �
> � � � � � �
>
> � � �
> � � � Well, lots, actually. It depends what you're a lexicographer of:
> EModE,
>
> LModE, ME, OE, CanE, AmE, BrE, NZE, General English and so forth. I hope
>
> we can benefit from our various areas of expertise and the way the
>
> discussion was going was not at all conducive towards this end. We'll
>
> see if this can be repaired for the sake of the group.
>
> Stefan
>
> Stefan Dollinger, Ph.D.
>
> Asst. Prof. of English Language
>
> Canadian English Lab, Director
>
> University of British Columbia
>
> Department of English
>
> Ph: (604) 822-4017
>
> http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/
>
> J P Maher wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I'll retract my naughtiness. Replace it with:
>
>>
>
>> What is new for seasoned lexicographers in the Wilton post?
>
>> jp maher
>
>>
>
>> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@interchange .ubc.ca
>
>> <mailto:dstefan% 40interchange. ubc.ca>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> From: Stefan Dollinger <dstefan@interchange .ubc.ca
>
>> <mailto:dstefan% 40interchange. ubc.ca>>
>
>> Subject: Re: [DSNA] Bees Wax
>
>> To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
>> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 2:49 PM
>
>>
>
>> Maybe I'm missing some of the context here, but if this is the new tone
>
>> on this discussion group, I'd be happy to leave it right away.
>
>> Best wishes, and hoping that this was just an accident,
>
>> Stefan
>
>>
>
>> Stefan Dollinger, Ph.D.
>
>> Asst. Prof. of English Language
>
>> Canadian English Lab, Director
>
>> University of British Columbia
>
>> Department of English
>
>> Ph: (604) 822-4017
>
>> http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/
>
>> <http://faculty. arts.ubc. ca/sdollinger/>
>
>>
>
>> J P Maher wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > Do we have to put up with Wilton? Have him post his sophomoric stuff
>
>> > on his own website.
>
>> >
>
>> > j p maher
>
>> > etymologist
>
>> >
>
>> > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Dave Wilton <dave@wilton. net
>
>> <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>
>
>> > <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>> wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> > From: Dave Wilton <dave@wilton. net <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>
>
>> <mailto:dave% 40wilton. net>>
>
>> > Subject: RE: [DSNA] Bees Wax
>
>> > To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
>> <mailto:DSNA% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
>> > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:41 AM
>
>> >
>
>> > It's because you're dealing with two distinct usages.
>
>> >
>
>> > The literal "bee's wax," the substance secreted by hymenoptera, does
>
>> > indeed
>
>> >
>
>> > date to Elizabethan times.
>
>> >
>
>> > But the slang "beeswax," meaning business, is an intentional and jocular
>
>> >
>
>> > malapropism that only dates to the 1930s and is American in origin. This
>
>> >
>
>> > slang sense has nothing to do with the literal wax, except insofar
>
>> as the
>
>> >
>
>> > pronunciation can be deliberately mangled.
>
>> >
>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>
>> >
>
>> > From: DSNA@yahoogroups. com [mailto:DSNA@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
>
>> > Of Scott
>
>> >
>
>> > Nelson
>
>> >
>
>> > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:19 AM
>
>> >
>
>> > To: DSNA@yahoogroups. com
>
>> >
>
>> > Cc: bolstar1@yahoo. com
>
>> >
>
>> > Subject: [DSNA] Bees Wax
>
>> >
>
>> > I have a question for anyone who might know why the OED, Random House,
>
>> >
>
>> > Merriam (dictionary & "Coined by Shakespeare" Merriam) don't list
>
>> >
>
>> > Shakespeare as having coined the word/phrase "bees-wax" or "mind
>
>> your own
>
>> >
>
>> > bees wax." I know that everyone in Elizabethan times knew where wax for
>
>> >
>
>> > officially sealing various correspondences came from, but coinage
>
>> > being what
>
>> >
>
>> > is is (the first recorded use of a term/expression) it's puzzling
>
>> that the
>
>> >
>
>> > first listing in OED (online) lists the first use in 1676 -- MOXON Print
>
>> >
>
>> > lett. 12 "You may rub your stone over with little Bees Wax."; Merriam
>
>> > lists
>
>> >
>
>> > 1664, Random lists 1670).
>
>> >
>
>> >� � � Yet II Henry VI 4.2.81-84 (1590-91) reads, "Some say the bee
>
>> stings,
>
>> >
>
>> > but I say, 'tis the bee's wax: for I did but seal once to a thing, and
>
>> > I was
>
>> >
>
>> > never mine own man since." I must be not be able to see the Amazon
>
>> jungle
>
>> >
>
>> > for the trees.
>
>> >
>
>> > Scott N.
>
>> >
>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> >
>
>> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>> >
>
>> > For more information:http://polyglot. lss.wisc. edu/dsna/ index.html
>
>> >
>
>> > Post message: DSNA@yahoogroups. com
>
>> >
>
>> > Unsubscribe: DSNA-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
>
>> >
>
>> > Visit the 2007 Conference blog: http://www.dsna- chicago.blogspot .com
>
>> >
>
>> > ******** REMEMBER: "REPLY" REPLIES TO THE ENTIRE LIST. ********Yahoo!
>
>> > Groups
>
>> >
>
>> > Links
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>>
>
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>>
>
>> For more information:http://polyglot. lss.wisc. edu/dsna/ index.html
>
>> <http://polyglot. lss.wisc. edu/dsna/ index.html>
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> � � �
>
> � �
> � �
> ���
> �����
> ���
> ���
>
> ���
>
> ���
> ���
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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