Hi Jeff,

The Telestation is pricey enough, and a Pier Tech Pier would likely break the
budget.

Good point about the imaging window. I do like to spend time acquiring a couple
test subs and framing the object before it gets into the nicer seeing, so I want
to take advantage of my view to the east. Which might just mean that I position
the scope so that I have some advantage to the east, and don't worry about
limiting myself in the west.

My biggest heartburn is to the south, where I'd love to catch the occasional
southern object skimming the trees. But realistically, the light pollution to
the south is pretty horrible to about 45 deg above horizon. Still, as soon as I
"can't" image there anymore, I'm sure I'll be fretting over a few narrowband
objects that I really want to catch!

I called Pier Tech, and they won't customize a roof design, and they also said
no to selling me the roof sheet and wheels/brackets, which I've determined are
the two pieces that I can't source from FrameWorld. I guess I understand - they
have to protect their proprietary business. If the dollars work out, I might
just buy their 7x7 and modify from there, or leave it stock if the angles look
ok. On paper, with a pivot point 12" below the walls, it looks doable.

Thanks!
Kel

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lunglhofer"
<jahoo@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Kel,
>
> I didn't realize you were in San Diego. . .watch out for those Santa Annas!
>
> If budget isn't a huge issue for you, Pier Tech sells a pier that will
> raise/lower the telescope for you.  I see what you mean, a fork in some
> regards isn't as compact as a GEM (you can't fold it up at odd angles).
>
> Just for the sake of argument (I'm sure you've thought of all this, so
> forgive me!). . .I would comment that from an imaging perspective, you don't
> actually *need* areas near the horizon. . .how often do you image near the
> horizon?  Also, it's actually much better to be below the lip of the roof if
> there is even the slightest amount of wind.
>
> I went through the exact same decision processes as you 3 years ago, same
> considerations, and for me, sacrificing horizon was a no brainer, the
> benefits outweigh the lost sky. . .where I'd never image anyway! J
>
> -Jeff
>

Yep San Diego is not a bad place to be sitting out all night under the stars. In
the winter, it's surprising if it dips below 40F at night. There's some coastal
layer to fight, but that's why I want to build a remote controllable obs and
imaging rig, 'cuz it kills me when I travel (each week) and miss any clear
nights! I figure since I'm traveling half of the time, I would double my imaging
nights.

Only problem with San Diego is the darned fires. In the aftermath of the last
one, the Telgizmos cover had some burned leaves sitting in some of the folds,
and no scorches, maybe a slight discolorization where burning leaves settled. I
didn't know those covers were fireproof, and was very grateful.

Kel

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Sheridan"
<balsawood@...> wrote:
>
> Ah San Diego the place of my youth, lived in Lomita Village up above Spring
> Valley.  Joined the AF in "64" and save for a little visit in "69" haven't
> been back.  Mom moved to Wyo. in "70" so no reason to go back.  I remember
> Christmas as sunny & 70°, up here in Tillamook, OR it's usually mid to low
> 40's and damp.
>
> I agree a good connection to some weight water, 5 Gal buckets of sand, a
> couple good sized rocks or even some concrete blocks should hold it down.
>
> Y'all take care,
> Dennis
>

Ah San Diego the place of my youth, lived in Lomita Village up above Spring
Valley.  Joined the AF in "64" and save for a little visit in "69" haven't
been back.  Mom moved to Wyo. in "70" so no reason to go back.  I remember
Christmas as sunny & 70°, up here in Tillamook, OR it's usually mid to low
40's and damp.

I agree a good connection to some weight water, 5 Gal buckets of sand, a
couple good sized rocks or even some concrete blocks should hold it down.

Y'all take care,
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I was planning on some 10 gallon jugs of water at each corner. But I suppose
even that won't keep a 7x7x6 300 lb box from being blown around. Here in San
Diego, we don't get much precipitation but the autumn months can have 25mph
sustained and 35mph gusts.

In my mind, I categorized the wind issue as solvable, since my scope (covered by
a Telegizmos 365 cover) is out there all year on an RCX tripod with no problem
and never a worry about blowing over. Maybe it's not a no-brainer and needs some
thought.

If this were a standalone deck, I'd put holes in it no problem. But this is part
of the house, with water-damageable house beneath it (used to be a flat roof
before we converted it). I'm willing to bracket-on a lot of weight to the base
of the obs... I wonder how much would be enough?

As for $$, I'm still gasping at the Telestation prices, but I like the tinker
toy approach and the strength of the result. If I can solve all of the design
issues, I likely would order the parts from a framing manufacturer and have a
building party with my family.

Kel

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Sheridan"
<balsawood@...> wrote:
>
> Kel,
>
> I'm having a little trouble understanding what you're saying.  You say you
> are erecting this on a rooftop deck and you can't put screws in  it, what
> pray tell is going to keep taking off should a mini hurricane or the like
> come up?  You have to secure it in some way to keep it in place.
>
> Being the cheap old phart that I am I'd opt for a DIY enclosure but that's
> me and my budget couldn't take a readymade unit.
>
> Dennis
>

Hi Jeff,

Yes, it's purely an issue of losing sky. My mount is a 14" LX200, forks only,
aluminum rack in place of the SCT, APM115 refractor on top, 80mm underneath. I
think  have less compactness with a fork vs GEM.

My shortest park position is straight east or west, and the intersection of RA
and Dec axes is a full 11" below this "scope scrape" height. With a 7'x7' obs,
this leaves me at about 55 degrees above horizon on the side that the roof
rolled away from. It's far worse for the guide scope, since it's underslung.

Most of the time, I guide off-axis, but once in a while I need to use the
guidescope!

Having the walls farther from the pivot point would help, but I don't want to go
much larger than 7' on one side, possibly 9' or maybe 10' on the other side.

I considered a dome, but being on the balcony, I'm hesitant to introduce another
source of vibration or weight shift mid-subframe (dome rotation). The balcony is
very stable as long as I'm not there. Clamshells are good for me, but Astrohaven
makes a 7' round (a little tight on the insides) and  12' which is too big.

Kel

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lunglhofer"
<jahoo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Kel,
>
> Do you want the scope to sit so high because of horizon obstruction?  I have
> a telestation and my solution is to park my telescope on its side to allow
> the roof to open/close and avoid striking the roof.
>
> -Jeff
>
> From: Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> skywardview
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories] Modifying a Pier Tech
> Telestation
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm considering a Pier Tech Telestation (or a similarly constructed
> home-brew design):
> http://www.pier-tech.com/tele-station_2_roll_off_roof_observatory.htm
>
> but I want to modify it to have a "cavern" roof with one end openable so
> that the telescope can normally sit higher and yet still allow the roof to
> roll on/off. Here's a concept drawing:
> http://www.pbase.com/astronomyimages/image/119832929/large
>
> The rolling elements are just like a Telestation, with stationary
> above/below rollers (not pictured), grasping two long extruded aluminum
> structural poles (with slots in them for the rollers). This cantilevers the
> roof when open, and avoids overhead support roller channels which I can't
> use because this is on my rooftop deck and no screws can be sunk into the
> deck.
>
> I'm going to call Pier Tech to see if they can customize one of their
> Telestation 2's for this caverned roof and flip-down side panel, or maybe
> I'll just assemble the tinker toy pieces from one of my company's aluminum
> frame systems suppliers.
>
> Any thoughts on the concept? This is a very creative group, and your first
> reactions to the drawing and idea would be most appreciated. Anything along
> the lines of "been there done that" or "you might want to think about
> this...".
>
> Kel
>

Kel,

I'm having a little trouble understanding what you're saying.  You say you
are erecting this on a rooftop deck and you can't put screws in  it, what
pray tell is going to keep taking off should a mini hurricane or the like
come up?  You have to secure it in some way to keep it in place.

Being the cheap old phart that I am I'd opt for a DIY enclosure but that's
me and my budget couldn't take a readymade unit.

Dennis

Hi Peter,

I think I see what you mean. I had been thinking of continuing the
Telestation-designed support wheels on an extended rail past the obs wall, maybe
supported by angle posts to the bottom member of the obs wall. I am specifically
trying to avoid any ground-based support since I am on a rooftop deck and cannot
penetrate the surface with any screws.

Is that what you meant?

Thanks!
Kel

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Baan De
Baan <pdebaan@...> wrote:
>
>
> For safety sake, install a HALF rail with end support/lockdown which wil be
able to support the whole roof it will do so even with moderate wind and avoid
damage
>
> Peter
>
>   > To: Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com
> > From: skywardview@...
> > Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:01:50 +0000
> > Subject: [Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories] Modifying a Pier Tech
Telestation
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm considering a Pier Tech Telestation (or a similarly constructed
home-brew design):
> > http://www.pier-tech.com/tele-station_2_roll_off_roof_observatory.htm
> >
> > but I want to modify it to have a "cavern" roof with one end openable so
that the telescope can normally sit higher and yet still allow the roof to roll
on/off. Here's a concept drawing:
> > http://www.pbase.com/astronomyimages/image/119832929/large
> >
> > The rolling elements are just like a Telestation, with stationary
above/below rollers (not pictured), grasping two long extruded aluminum
structural poles (with slots in them for the rollers). This cantilevers the roof
when open, and avoids overhead support roller channels which I can't use because
this is on my rooftop deck and no screws can be sunk into the deck.
> >
> > I'm going to call Pier Tech to see if they can customize one of their
Telestation 2's for this caverned roof and flip-down side panel, or maybe I'll
just assemble the tinker toy pieces from one of my company's aluminum frame
systems suppliers.
> >
> > Any thoughts on the concept? This is a very creative group, and your first
reactions to the drawing and idea would be most appreciated. Anything along the
lines of "been there done that" or "you might want to think about this...".
> >
> > Kel
> >

Yakity - yakity, yakity - Yakity and yak yak yakity. 8-)))

Dennis

Hi folks,

I'm considering a Pier Tech Telestation (or a similarly constructed home-brew
design):
http://www.pier-tech.com/tele-station_2_roll_off_roof_observatory.htm

but I want to modify it to have a "cavern" roof with one end openable so that
the telescope can normally sit higher and yet still allow the roof to roll
on/off. Here's a concept drawing:
http://www.pbase.com/astronomyimages/image/119832929/large

The rolling elements are just like a Telestation, with stationary above/below
rollers (not pictured), grasping two long extruded aluminum structural poles
(with slots in them for the rollers). This cantilevers the roof when open, and
avoids overhead support roller channels which I can't use because this is on my
rooftop deck and no screws can be sunk into the deck.

I'm going to call Pier Tech to see if they can customize one of their
Telestation 2's for this caverned roof and flip-down side panel, or maybe I'll
just assemble the tinker toy pieces from one of my company's aluminum frame
systems suppliers.

Any thoughts on the concept? This is a very creative group, and your first
reactions to the drawing and idea would be most appreciated. Anything along the
lines of "been there done that" or "you might want to think about this...".

Kel

Hi all, and welcome all new members.

Well we've hit the 300 mark in members, but still only a small handful
are talking.

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

Again lets yak it up folks.


Alan D. Otterson
Founder & Owner
Fliptop & Clamshell Observatories
Windy Ridge Observatory
Three Rivers, MI

Vintage Celestron C8"
Meade ETX 125 PE 5
Nikon D40
MeDE lpi

Mike,
Great idea I rent so this would be perfect for me. (also a new member) You guys
have some very original ideas. Look forward to trying Mikes idea.
Thanks
Lou



--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Mike"
<mikegray0422@...> wrote:
>
> Well I finally found an unconventional observatory group.  It's going to be
fun to see some of the ideas that folks have come up with.  My first and only
attempt at a mount enclosure is here.
>
> http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mgray8351/birdhouse.html
>
> It was born out of necessity since local building restrictions do everything
possible to discourage out-buildings of any type.  The neighborhood nosy bodies
keep themselves busy ratting out their neighbors for infractions.
>
> My observatory has no permanent structure at all so it qualifies as a very
poorly designed birdhouse. :-)
>
> Clear Skies.
> Mike Gray
>

Great work Mike!

     Sander

Mike wrote:
>
>
> Well I finally found an unconventional observatory group. It's going
> to be fun to see some of the ideas that folks have come up with. My
> first and only attempt at a mount enclosure is here.
>
> http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mgray8351/birdhouse.html
> <http://www.wideopenwest.com/%7Emgray8351/birdhouse.html>
>
> It was born out of necessity since local building restrictions do
> everything possible to discourage out-buildings of any type. The
> neighborhood nosy bodies keep themselves busy ratting out their
> neighbors for infractions.
>
> My observatory has no permanent structure at all so it qualifies as a
> very poorly designed birdhouse. :-)
>
> Clear Skies.
> Mike Gray
>
>
>

Re: New Member

HI Mike,

I am the the one who sent you the link to this group.

You all need to check out Mike's Telescope Shelter.

Again, Welcome to the group Mike,

Alan D. Otterson
Group Founder & Owner

Windy Ridge Observatory
Three Rivers, MI



--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Mike"
<mikegray0422@...> wrote:
>
> Well I finally found an unconventional observatory group.  It's going to be
fun to see some of the ideas that folks have come up with.  My first and only
attempt at a mount enclosure is here.
>
> http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mgray8351/birdhouse.html
>
> It was born out of necessity since local building restrictions do everything
possible to discourage out-buildings of any type.  The neighborhood nosy bodies
keep themselves busy ratting out their neighbors for infractions.
>
> My observatory has no permanent structure at all so it qualifies as a very
poorly designed birdhouse. :-)
>
> Clear Skies.
> Mike Gray
>

Well I finally found an unconventional observatory group.  It's going to be fun
to see some of the ideas that folks have come up with.  My first and only
attempt at a mount enclosure is here.

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mgray8351/birdhouse.html

It was born out of necessity since local building restrictions do everything
possible to discourage out-buildings of any type.  The neighborhood nosy bodies
keep themselves busy ratting out their neighbors for infractions.

My observatory has no permanent structure at all so it qualifies as a very
poorly designed birdhouse. :-)

Clear Skies.
Mike Gray

HI  All,

I'm selling my Meade ETX 125PE 5"

Going to a bigger scope.

Alan

For Sale

MEADE ETX 125PE 5"
Maksutove-Cassegrain
GOTO

Photos are in Alan's ETX 125PE 5" for album

New only used a few times

$650.00
Pickup Only

Comes with Autostar Computer controller
AC Power adapter
ONE Super Eyepiece

Meade Heavy Duty Field Tripod / with carry bag
Tripod has built in wedge.

Also includes Piggyback Camera Adapter
Software & manual

Contact:

Alan D. Otterson

Three Rivers, MI
(30 Minutes from MI, In. state line)

E-Mail
alancath@...

Hi All,

I'm going to a bigger scope, So,


For Sale

MEADE ETX 125PE 5"
Maksutove-Cassegrain
GOTO

Photos are in Alan's ETX 125PE 5" for sale album

New only used a few times

$650.00
Pickup Only

Comes with Autostar Computer controller
AC Power adapter
ONE Super Eyepiece

Meade Heavy Duty Field Tripod / with carry bag
Tripod has built in wedge.

Also includes Piggyback Camera Adapter
Software & manual

Contact:

Alan D. Otterson

Three Rivers, MI
(30 Minutes from MI, In state line)

E-Mail
alancath@...

Hi And Welcome Tom,

We will be glad to see your progess on your observatory,

Glad you joined the group,


Alan D. Otterson
Group Founder & Owner

Windy Ridge Observatory
Three Rivers, Mi

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
<moranhousehold@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.
> Thought I might introduce myself. My name is Tom and I live in Newcastle,
which is in Northern England. Thanks for the ideas you have given me. I was
contemplating building a run off observatory, but given space restrictions and a
vegetable plot nearby I had to re-think. I wondered about having a roof that
simply hinges open, and as I researched my old astronomy books I came across
'The amateur astronomer and his telescope' by Gunter D. Roth. There on plate 9
shows the observatory of the famous Hans Vehrenberg with such an observatory.
Progress is well under way. I will post some pictures of the construction
shortly. Once again, thanks for the ideas and inspiration.
> Tom.
>

Hi.
Thought I might introduce myself. My name is Tom and I live in Newcastle, which
is in Northern England. Thanks for the ideas you have given me. I was
contemplating building a run off observatory, but given space restrictions and a
vegetable plot nearby I had to re-think. I wondered about having a roof that
simply hinges open, and as I researched my old astronomy books I came across
'The amateur astronomer and his telescope' by Gunter D. Roth. There on plate 9
shows the observatory of the famous Hans Vehrenberg with such an observatory.
Progress is well under way. I will post some pictures of the construction
shortly. Once again, thanks for the ideas and inspiration.
Tom.

Hi Kel.

That's a bright idea for sure,

Yes mine was made from wood.

If I make another Observatory the one thing I would do would be is to have the
roof running Eaast to West, Not North and South as having the North and South
line blocks some of the Southern sky.


Alan


--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "skywardview"
<skywardview@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.pierplates.com/motel.html
>
> I thought the aluminum frame with foam board is very interesting. I'm still
noodling on a remote-opening enclosure, without the large footprint of a
roll-off obs, and the light weight of the foam board could make a flip top quite
doable. This is something very much like what Alan posted, his being made of
wood I think.
>
> Kel
>

http://www.pierplates.com/motel.html

I thought the aluminum frame with foam board is very interesting. I'm still
noodling on a remote-opening enclosure, without the large footprint of a
roll-off obs, and the light weight of the foam board could make a flip top quite
doable. This is something very much like what Alan posted, his being made of
wood I think.

Kel

Hi Andy,

Welcome to the group,

Have fun looking around,


Alan

Owner & Founder
Fliptop And Clamshell Observatories
Windy Ridge Observatory
Three Rivers, MI

None thing wrong using hand power Larry,


Thanks for sharing with us,


Alan

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@...> wrote:
>
> Well I did pickup a couple of Ford sunroof motors to motorize it but it turns
so easy by hand that I likely won't bother right now.
> Larry
>
> --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
<ottersonalan@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Larry,
> >
> > Do you rotate it by hand?
> >
> >
> > Nice job,
> >
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Thanks and yes the roof rotates on 32 2" wheels from Princes Auto.
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
<ottersonalan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > HI Hi Larry,
> > > >
> > > > Nice Red Barn Observatory, now my little Red Barn Observatory has
company.
> > > >
> > > > Looks like the roof rotates, is that correct?
> > > >
> > > > Great job and nice photos larry,
> > > >
> > > > and again welcome to the group.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alan
> > > > group Founder & Owner
> > > > Windy Ridge Observatory
> > > > Three Rivers, Mi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi I've posted some pictures of my Red Barn, if there are any
questions I will try and answer them.
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Well I did pickup a couple of Ford sunroof motors to motorize it but it turns so
easy by hand that I likely won't bother right now.
Larry

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
<ottersonalan@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Larry,
>
> Do you rotate it by hand?
>
>
> Nice job,
>
>
> Alan
>
> --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > Thanks and yes the roof rotates on 32 2" wheels from Princes Auto.
> > Larry
> >
> > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
<ottersonalan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > HI Hi Larry,
> > >
> > > Nice Red Barn Observatory, now my little Red Barn Observatory has company.
> > >
> > > Looks like the roof rotates, is that correct?
> > >
> > > Great job and nice photos larry,
> > >
> > > and again welcome to the group.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan
> > > group Founder & Owner
> > > Windy Ridge Observatory
> > > Three Rivers, Mi
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi I've posted some pictures of my Red Barn, if there are any questions
I will try and answer them.
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hello Larry,

Do you rotate it by hand?


Nice job,


Alan

--- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Thanks and yes the roof rotates on 32 2" wheels from Princes Auto.
> Larry
>
> --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "Alan"
<ottersonalan@> wrote:
> >
> > HI Hi Larry,
> >
> > Nice Red Barn Observatory, now my little Red Barn Observatory has company.
> >
> > Looks like the roof rotates, is that correct?
> >
> > Great job and nice photos larry,
> >
> > and again welcome to the group.
> >
> >
> > Alan
> > group Founder & Owner
> > Windy Ridge Observatory
> > Three Rivers, Mi
> >
> >
> > --- In Flip_Top_and_Clamshell_Observatories@yahoogroups.com, "lburg_56"
<lawrencejburgess@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi I've posted some pictures of my Red Barn, if there are any questions I
will try and answer them.
> > > Larry
> > >
> >
>