Hi all, for anyone else designing financial trading apps - I came across eToro yesterday and thought that it might be of interest to the group - http://www.etoro.com/forex-trading/nov.aspx

It has a visually engaging, game-like interface with animated world maps, currency run marathons etc. that allow trading for practice as well as for 'real' money.

eToro claims that it "makes it possible for experienced and novice traders alike to take part in the largest financial market in the world".

The response from our trading floor wasn't quite so positive. Even the most experienced traders said that they rely on more advanced analytical tools/techniques for currency pair evaluation. Its one redeeming feature was its `user-friendly' interface.

Theba

I couldn't agree more. What do you think of the ease of use of the
guitars from rockband and guitarhero? In my opinion the gituars are a
bit to small, and there is no tactile recognition for the colored keys
when you touch them.

--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@... wrote:
>
> I think the onscreen keyboard interface (i.e. when using the web
browser)
> suffers some ergonomic problems as well.  I find that the hand motion
> required to press the "A" button slightly changes where the Wiimote is
> pointing, so I often end up inadvertantly selecting the key just
below the
> one I intended.  There are a few things they could have done to get
around
> that (larger clickable area on the key currently highlighted,
subtracting
> sudden movements preceding the button press, etc.), but maybe didn't
have
> the skill to anticipate or recognize these sorts of problems.  It's
> interesting that video game designers increasingly need to deal with
human
> factors problems, rather than just the design of the gameplay itself.
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@...>
> Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> 10/02/2008 03:47 AM
> Please respond to
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The motion capture in a game made by Nintendo is excellent. But the
> menu itself needs a to precise control with a device that isn't really
> made for point and click. The receiver needs to be at an optimal
> height and distance which puts some boundary's in an experience that
> should be playfull.
>
> There is coming an extra add-on for the Wiimote that should capture
> even the slightest wrist motion. Looking forward to be testing it.
>
> Jeroen
>
> --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@ wrote:
> >
> > I agree. I think that motion-sensitivity is a really interesting
> choice,
> > because now game design will in large measure depend upon human
> > ergonomics. I've found that the games created by Nintendo itself
> tend to
> > be very good (presumably they have ergonomics professionals on
staff),
> > while third-party games and especially ports from other consoles are
> > frequently terrible. My wife was playing the "Harry Potter" game, and
> > found that one of the spells required her to repeatedly hit herself
> in the
> > face with the nunchuk cord.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@>
> > Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > 10/01/2008 09:39 AM
> > Please respond to
> > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > To
> > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Perfect when I'm playing tennis, when I need to navigate in a menu the
> > controls are not as precise as a regular controller. Pointing a hand
> > towards a button is something that i don't like to do on a wii
> >
> > --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@ wrote:
> > >
> > > So what's your feeling on the Wii's controller?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@>
> > > Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > > 10/01/2008 07:36 AM
> > > Please respond to
> > > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > To
> > > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > > cc
> > >
> > > Subject
> > > [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm Jeroen Bennink, interaction designer at a dutch company called
> > > Info.nl.
> > >
> > > I've played both pc and console games, nowadays i'm only playing
> > > xbox360 and the wii. I like console because you don't have to update
> > > your hardware or get a chance of getting distracted by an email.
> > >
> > > I like shooters and rpg's and from a UI point of view I like the
games
> > > with a minimal interface. In a ww2 shooter you don't want a full
heads
> > > up display because it isn't realistic. But you still want to get
> > > feedback on your health and ammo etc. So the interfaces that I like
> > > are the ones that give me feedback but not printed on the screen but
> > > in a subtle animation or sound. The red glare in your screen when
> > > you're getting shot is some sort of an error message: you're
doing it
> > > wrong. Every good UI needs to protect users of making errors,
COD4 is
> > > also doing this by playing sounds of bullets flying over.
> > >
> > > Jeroen
> > >
> > > --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Ferrara" <john_ferrara@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I want to welcome a few new members to this mailing list. And I'd
> > > > like to ask of the whole list -- what's your experience of games?
> > > > Have you seen any game interfaces that you think are interesting
> from
> > > > a UI point of view?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
> > message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
> > and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
> > use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
> > are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
> > review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
> > prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
> > and then delete this e-mail from your system.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
> message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
> and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
> use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
> are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
> review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
> prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
> and then delete this e-mail from your system.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and then delete this e-mail from your system.
>

The motion capture in a game made by Nintendo is excellent. But the
menu itself needs a to precise control with a device that isn't really
made for point and click. The receiver needs to be at an optimal
height and distance which puts some boundary's in an experience that
should be playfull.

There is coming an extra add-on for the Wiimote that should capture
even the slightest wrist motion. Looking forward to be testing it.

Jeroen


--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@... wrote:
>
> I agree.  I think that motion-sensitivity is a really interesting
choice,
> because now game design will in large measure depend upon human
> ergonomics.  I've found that the games created by Nintendo itself
tend to
> be very good (presumably they have ergonomics professionals on staff),
> while third-party games and especially ports from other consoles are
> frequently terrible.  My wife was playing the "Harry Potter" game, and
> found that one of the spells required her to repeatedly hit herself
in the
> face with the nunchuk cord.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@...>
> Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> 10/01/2008 09:39 AM
> Please respond to
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Perfect when I'm playing tennis, when I need to navigate in a menu the
> controls are not as precise as a regular controller. Pointing a hand
> towards a button is something that i don't like to do on a wii
>
> --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@ wrote:
> >
> > So what's your feeling on the Wii's controller?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@>
> > Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > 10/01/2008 07:36 AM
> > Please respond to
> > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > To
> > GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm Jeroen Bennink, interaction designer at a dutch company called
> > Info.nl.
> >
> > I've played both pc and console games, nowadays i'm only playing
> > xbox360 and the wii. I like console because you don't have to update
> > your hardware or get a chance of getting distracted by an email.
> >
> > I like shooters and rpg's and from a UI point of view I like the games
> > with a minimal interface. In a ww2 shooter you don't want a full heads
> > up display because it isn't realistic. But you still want to get
> > feedback on your health and ammo etc. So the interfaces that I like
> > are the ones that give me feedback but not printed on the screen but
> > in a subtle animation or sound. The red glare in your screen when
> > you're getting shot is some sort of an error message: you're doing it
> > wrong. Every good UI needs to protect users of making errors, COD4 is
> > also doing this by playing sounds of bullets flying over.
> >
> > Jeroen
> >
> > --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Ferrara" <john_ferrara@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I want to welcome a few new members to this mailing list. And I'd
> > > like to ask of the whole list -- what's your experience of games?
> > > Have you seen any game interfaces that you think are interesting
from
> > > a UI point of view?
> > >
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
> message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
> and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
> use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
> are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
> review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
> prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
> and then delete this e-mail from your system.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and then delete this e-mail from your system.
>

Perfect when I'm playing tennis, when I need to navigate in a menu the
controls are not as precise as a regular controller. Pointing a hand
towards a button is something that i don't like to do on a wii

--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, john_ferrara@... wrote:
>
> So what's your feeling on the Wii's controller?
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeroen_bennink" <jeroenbennink@...>
> Sent by: GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> 10/01/2008 07:36 AM
> Please respond to
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [GameUIdesign] Re: Welcoming new subscribers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm Jeroen Bennink, interaction designer at a dutch company called
> Info.nl.
>
> I've played both pc and console games, nowadays i'm only playing
> xbox360 and the wii. I like console because you don't have to update
> your hardware or get a chance of getting distracted by an email.
>
> I like shooters and rpg's and from a UI point of view I like the games
> with a minimal interface. In a ww2 shooter you don't want a full heads
> up display because it isn't realistic. But you still want to get
> feedback on your health and ammo etc. So the interfaces that I like
> are the ones that give me feedback but not printed on the screen but
> in a subtle animation or sound. The red glare in your screen when
> you're getting shot is some sort of an error message: you're doing it
> wrong. Every good UI needs to protect users of making errors, COD4 is
> also doing this by playing sounds of bullets flying over.
>
> Jeroen
>
> --- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Ferrara" <john_ferrara@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I want to welcome a few new members to this mailing list. And I'd
> > like to ask of the whole list -- what's your experience of games?
> > Have you seen any game interfaces that you think are interesting from
> > a UI point of view?
> >
> >
> > John
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT. The information contained in this e-mail
message, including attachments, is the confidential information of,
and/or is the property of, Vanguard. The information is intended for
use solely by the individual or entity named in the message. If you
are not an intended recipient or you received this in error, then any
review, printing, copying, or distribution of any such information is
prohibited, and please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and then delete this e-mail from your system.
>

Hi,

I'm Jeroen Bennink, interaction designer at a dutch company called
Info.nl.

I've played both pc and console games, nowadays i'm only playing
xbox360 and the wii. I like console because you don't have to update
your hardware or get a chance of getting distracted by an email.

I like shooters and rpg's and from a UI point of view I like the games
with a minimal interface. In a ww2 shooter you don't want a full heads
up display because it isn't realistic. But you still want to get
feedback on your health and ammo etc. So the interfaces that I like
are the ones that give me feedback but not printed on the screen but
in a subtle animation or sound. The red glare in your screen when
you're getting shot is some sort of an error message: you're doing it
wrong. Every good UI needs to protect users of making errors, COD4 is
also doing this by playing sounds of bullets flying over.

Jeroen

--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Ferrara" <john_ferrara@...>
wrote:
>
> I want to welcome a few new members to this mailing list.  And I'd
> like to ask of the whole list -- what's your experience of games?
> Have you seen any game interfaces that you think are interesting from
> a UI point of view?
>
>
> John
>

I want to welcome a few new members to this mailing list.  And I'd
like to ask of the whole list -- what's your experience of games?
Have you seen any game interfaces that you think are interesting from
a UI point of view?


John

I've just blogged an interview with the creative director of Sony
Computer Entertainment Europe, Eric Matthews.  It was a really great
discssion that had clear parallels with our own world.  And yes, the
full text provides an explanation for the rather odd subject line.

http://worldwideintertubes.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/interview-with-
eric-matthews-creative-director-of-sony-computer-entertainment-europe/


John Ferrara
Information Architect, Vanguard

Hi Mia, John, thank you very much for pointing these out.  They've triggered quite a few viable design ideas.

The PNC, mint, filife interfaces are impressive and very un-banklike.  It's confirmed how far corporate & investment bank web services is lagging behind retail.

Do keep me posted on any other good interaction patterns from games, financial tools and I'll do the same.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the support.
Theba

Hmm.... I don't have an ideal example, but I can approach the
question in a few ways.

1. This isn't so much a charting interface, but I'd recommend
checking out PNC Bank's Virtual Wallet because it does incorporate
game elements very effectively into a financial website.  A demo is
available at http://www.pncvirtualwallet.com.  Select "Explore
Virtual Wallet", then "See What's Inside".  The orange circles at
the top will navigate you through some amazing concepts; I'd
recommend watching the videos for all of them.

2. Gapminder World has an incredibly robust charting interface that
isn't very gamey, but does encourage play.
http://graphs.gapminder.org/world.  You can change the value of
either axis, assign third and fourth values the size and color of
each bubble, change the range of bubble sizes, change bubble
opacity, change time period or run period as a movie, highlight
specific countries, track any country's movement over time, change
the whole view to a global map, and on and on.  You can spend days
playing with it.

3. Applications like the Simpsons avatar creator apply very gamelike
aesthetics and spirit to something that isn't a game at all.  At
some level these are more enjoyable to use because there's a
lightness to the interface that makes it feel fun in and of itself.
Go to simpsonsmovie.com, click "Enter Site", then wait for "Creat
your own Simpsons Avatar" to appear at the top of the screen.

4. Some games can have fairly robust displays for quantitative
information with interesting interfaces, often rendered in
unconventional and highly visual ways.  I'd recommend Sim City,
Civilization IV, World of Warcraft, Sins of a Solar Empire, and
Final Fantasy XII for inspiration.


Anyone else have any examples?

John


--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Theba Islam" <theba.islam@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi John, looking forward to hearing more about the discussion.
>
> Was wondering if you or anyone could help me with this –
> I'm redesigning an extremely dated charting application used by our
> Rates Traders.
> Though dated and clunky the functionality is very sophisticated,
> allowing them to do volatility & correlation analysis and risk
> modelling.
>
> The goal is to make the application more playful, game like, in
allowing
> Traders to pick and choose from the 1000s of instruments and
markets,
> customise historic volatility calculations, drag and drop formulas
into
> series/weight combinations and redraw charts.
>
> Have you come across anything similar in Banks or even games that
could
> help?
>
> Many thanks in advance,
> Theba
>

Theba

You might take a look at mint.com, filife.com and
http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energyville/index.aspx?economist=eco3459
for some interesting takes on financial apps and calculators with a
more playful tone. They don't have sophisticated formulae but might
trigger some ideas.

Cheers, Mia

--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Theba Islam" <theba.islam@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi John, looking forward to hearing more about the discussion.
>
> Was wondering if you or anyone could help me with this –
> I'm redesigning an extremely dated charting application used by our
> Rates Traders.
> Though dated and clunky the functionality is very sophisticated,
> allowing them to do volatility & correlation analysis and risk
> modelling.
>
> The goal is to make the application more playful, game like, in
allowing
> Traders to pick and choose from the 1000s of instruments and
markets,
> customise historic volatility calculations, drag and drop formulas
into
> series/weight combinations and redraw charts.
>
> Have you come across anything similar in Banks or even games that
could
> help?
>
> Many thanks in advance,
> Theba
>

Hi John, looking forward to hearing more about the discussion.

Was wondering if you or anyone could help me with this –
I'm redesigning an extremely dated charting application used by our Rates Traders. 
Though dated and clunky the functionality is very sophisticated, allowing them to do volatility & correlation analysis and risk modelling.  

The goal is to make the application more playful, game like, in allowing Traders to pick and choose from the 1000s of instruments and markets, customise historic volatility calculations, drag and drop formulas into series/weight combinations and redraw charts. 

Have you come across anything similar in Banks or even games that could help?

Many thanks in advance,
Theba

This is a great resource, thanks so much for posting it Theba.  It's
great that there's a growing interest in how usability methods can be
applied to and grow from working with game interfaces.

I was actually talking to someone at Sony last week about the issues
involved in translating a process developed for consumer software and
Web to game design.  The discussion was really fascinating; I hope to
post the content of it here soon.


John Ferrara
Vanguard


--- In GameUIdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Theba Islam" <theba.islam@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, a few very interesting papers and proceedings from this years
> CHI workshop in Italy, on evaluating user experience in games.
>
> See - http://workshops.icts.sbg.ac.at/chi2008/
> <http://workshops.icts.sbg.ac.at/chi2008/>
>

Hi all, a few very interesting papers and proceedings from this years CHI workshop in Italy, on evaluating user experience in games.

See - http://workshops.icts.sbg.ac.at/chi2008/

Hey everyone,

To this point I haven't taken the opportunity to use the GameUIDesign
list to its fullest advantage, and I'd like to pick it up a bit.  A
few people have joined the group recently, so I thought it would be a
good opportunity to strike up a discussion.

I'd like to start with a basic question:  What are you playing, and is
there anything you think is noteworthy about its user interface?


John

Last week one of my coworkers shared a great video of Will Wright
demonstrating "Spore" for the Long Now Foundation (you can view it
at http://fora.tv/2006/06/26/Will_Wright_and_Brian_Eno). It's an
amazingly ambitious game, and showcases the potential for games to
change the way you look at the world.

As software, I think it's interesting how they've distributed the
burden of complexity. On the one hand, the developers have created
relatively simple algorithms that produce very complex, multivariate
outputs. The game allows players to create their own creatures that
will live in the Spore universe, body part by body part.  You can
download the tool at http://www.spore.com/trial.

The interesting thing is that the little critters are imbued with
this sort of mystical mathematical soul. Wherever you position legs
on a creature's body, the computer figures out how that would affect
its gait, balance, and stride. When you map a stripes onto its skin,
it crunches a few formulas to figure out how they should flow from
body part to body part. Simple algorithms are processed by the
player's computer to produce very complex results.

On the other hand, the rich diversity of life in the game is a
product of the collective efforts of the many people who will be
playing it. Rather than limiting themselves to a handful of
creatures they prepackage with the game, they leave it open to the
masses of players to build a complex game experience for each other.

So in a way, Maxis is working in two fundamental raw materials: the
computational power of the players' computers, and the limitless
capacity of human imagination. The human investment is amplified by
the algorithms, and the result is something much more complex than
any person or software developer could ever create on their own.

... and here's an article from today's Wall Street Journal describing
some shopping interfaces as games.  I don't think that I would
actually classify these as games, because I don't see a definite
static objective here.  But it's certainly at least game-like.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120960195112257963.html?
mod=pj_main_hs_coll

Here's an article very much along the same lines of the game-based
personal finance application I discussed.  Interesting that this
writer is in game design and looking toward financial services, while
I'm in financial services and looking toward game design -- and we
arrived at similar concepts.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/04/financial-gameboy.html

Hey all,

By any chance, did anyone take pictures when I was demonstrating the
EyeToy at the Summit?  If so, I'd love to incorporate them into a
slidecast of the presentation.  It's going to be otherwise difficult
for people to follow what's going on during that section of the
audiorecording.

Thanks in advance,

John

• Health bars
• Progress indicators
• Mini-maps / Radars
• Head-up display
• Cinematics / Cut scenes
• Zoom
• Targeting reticles
• Lock-on
• Inventory boxes
• Save points
• Powerups
• Character attributes
• Score counter
• Leaderboards
• Tutorial levels
• Contextual help
• Alerts
• Damage detection
• Homing beacons
• Randomization controls
• Pause menus
• Radial menus
• Carousel menus
• Directional carousel
• Controller pad configurations

If you haven't seen these videos before, they're definitely worth
viewing.

Johnny Lee is a researcher at Carnegie Mellon who has been working on
ways that you can use the Wii's controller to create interfaces for
PC's.  You can connect the WiiMote to any PC with a bluetooth
connection, and from there the software you create for it is bounded
only by your imagination.  The results here are pretty remarkable.

This is another example of overlap between games and conventional UI's.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/


John Ferrara

I've updloaded a PDF version of my presentation from the 2008 IA
Summit to my blog at www.WorldWideIntertubes.com (the file was a
little too big for the Yahoo! group).  A slidecast is also pending.

I want to thank everyone so much for joining this group; I'm very glad
you enjoyed the presentation.  I will be posting a copy of it here
this weekend.

Another announcement -- I'll be starting a game design pattern library
on Flickr, with an emphasis on experience elements that could be
extended to conventional user interfaces.  More on that soon.

In the meantime, this discussion group is set up for your use.  Please
feel free to post, reply, and upload as you see fit.


John Ferrara
Information Architect, Vanguard