On Nov 29, 2009, at 8:20 AM, rybo6 wrote:
> Afterwards we have 30 circumferential edges and 6 internal chords,
> because of square's deflection of flat plane to a convex plane now
> divided into to equalateral triangles and the spinal backbone ---
> like keel of a boat--- internal chord.
>

Actually that is deflection of six flat planes into two additional
flat planes ergo from 14 faced VE polyhedron to 20 faced Ico.
polyhedron.

As to the length of that spinal chord diagonal between the contracted
squares vertexes, h,m?

I think Jim has that recorded somewhere.

It appears to me that the square expands in one direction and
contracts in the other, as specified by Fullers value of 2.2.485284.....



> > an excess of gravitational tensional-embracement capability
> constitutes the excess of
> > inter-transformative ****stretchability**** between the VE's two
> > alternatively unstable, omni-system's stable states and its first
> two
> > similarly stable, omni-triangulated states. ".............


Do the two balance to zero gain or loss?

Actually we more than just 6 internal chords now.

Rybo

That  the radius of Ico. is less than value of external chords is not
in doubt.




> These are the 6 Rybo tets.
>
> I suppose these 6 can be subdivided into four tets each to become
> like anti-tets to Synergetics 24 "S-modules".
> http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f8812.html
>
> I dunno.
>

On Nov 27, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Alan M wrote:
> > Zach / Moses ] Where "rybo" gets the idea there're 12 such
> diagonals, is beyond me.
>
> AM] Perhaps, from the Lehman Jitterbug? (i.e. long diagonals
> instead of short diagonals)
>

Excellent ALan!  Yes those are the Rybo tets.

They are like the anti-"S" modules that occur between Oct. and Ico.
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/p87400.html#988.00

The "S"-mods occur externally to the Ico's surface, the Rybo tets
occur internally on interior side.
> > Only one shows up per square when the jitterbug begins.
>
> > > 987.318 .......... The difference between the second root of
> two (which is
> > > 1.414214 - 1, i.e., the difference is 0.414214) occurs six
> times, which
> > > amounts to a total system contraction of 2.485284.
>
> > > --- In synergeo@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 rybo6@ wrote:
>
> > >> ..."When this de-nucleation happens, the long diagonals of the
> six
> > >> squares ****contract**** to unit-vector-radius length........
>
> > >> 987.319 .......... This 2.485284 a excess of gravitational
> tensional-
> > >> embracement capability constitutes the excess of
> > >> inter-transformative ****stretchability**** between the VE's two
> > >> alternatively unstable, omni-system's stable states and its
> first two
> > >> similarly stable, omni-triangulated states. ".............
>
> > >> Rybo
>
> > > ------------------------------------
>
>
>

H,mm actually since the VE's 6 squares distorts itself with both
contraction of 6 diagonals and expansion of 6 diagonals we have what
appears to be a net balance of zero of the overall numerical change.

However, what exactly happens to the expanded diagonal is still in
question.

We've, gone from 24 chords as VE, to 30 chords as Ico.


Those additional 6  longer chords would either subdivide the six sets
of the Ico's two adjacent triangles, or those diagonal become
internallized chords that appear to become the 6 long backbone edges
for the 6 Rybo Tets as found in Lehmanville( pentagonal vector
matrix ) jitterbug.

On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, rybo6 wrote:

> On Nov 27, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Alan M wrote:
>> 987.318 .......... The difference between the second root of two
>> (which is 1.414214 - 1, i.e., the difference is 0.414214) occurs
>> six times, which amounts to a total system contraction of 2.485284.
>>
>
> Alan, that is acceptable, only if were considering 30 icosahedral
> chords and not 36.
>
> If 36 are considered then that Synergetics value needs to be doubled.
>
> 4.970568 would then be the correct value Alan and take note that this
> amount is nearly the rounded whole rational value of five( 5 ).
>
> Rybo
>> -- In synergeo@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ..."When this de-nucleation happens, the long diagonals of the six
>>> squares ****contract**** to unit-vector-radius length........
>>>
>>>
>>> 987.319 .......... This 2.485284 a excess of gravitational
>> tensional-
>>> embracement capability constitutes the excess of
>>> inter-transformative ****stretchability**** between the VE's two
>>> alternatively unstable, omni-system's stable states and its first
>> two
>>> similarly stable, omni-triangulated states. ".............
>>>
>>> Rybo
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To post a message, send plain text only to:
> synergeo@yahoogroups.com, to send a message to the list owners send
> to synergeo-owner@yahoogroups.com. Patent searches at http://
> www.google.com/patents
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

ABCD planes of Tetrahedron  =  4D( metaphysical enclosure )

"There is no dimension without time".
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s05/p2700.html#527.08

XYZ = 3D volumetric( metaphysical metric )
------------------

Spin( rotation )  =  time( motion and frequency of events ) ergo
physical phenomena

Rybo

--- In GeoJourney@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...> wrote:
>
> On Nov 12, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Alan M wrote:
> >
> > No, Rybo, that's just an illusion of shooting off to the side. You
> > are really turning yourself (i.e. camera) around instead of turning
> > the object that you were supposed to examine!
> >
>
> Yes Alan is camera angle but the object also moves very far away. So
> far that when drag it back closer I reach a limit where it will not
> get close enough ergo big enough to effectively view it.
>
> RYbo

I click the button to FIT it back on the screen in My Cortona. Of course, you
can always start over by clicking the RESTORE.

On Nov 12, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Alan M wrote:
>
> No, Rybo, that's just an illusion of shooting off to the side. You
> are really turning yourself (i.e. camera) around instead of turning
> the object that you were supposed to examine!
>

Yes Alan is camera angle but the object also moves very far away. So
far that when drag it back closer I reach a limit where it will not
get close enough ergo big enough to effectively view it.

RYbo

--- In GeoJourney@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...> wrote:
>
> Alan, I have "walk, fly, and examine mode".
>
> As stated previously, some John Mc Cashams wrls work fine with my
> "examine" mode.
>
>
> There appear to be at least three different versions of wrls that I
> have encountered.
>
> Oldest ones wont open at all.
>
> Intermediated ones work fine with "free wrl"
>
> and the newer ones open but become super small and shoot off to the
> side when I click to "examine".

No, Rybo, that's just an illusion of shooting off to the side. You are really
turning yourself (i.e. camera) around instead of turning the object that you
were supposed to examine!

> I need to contact Source Forge programmer and give hime info.
>
> Rybo

--- In GeoJourney@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...> wrote:
>
> H,m  I can see your wrl's but cannot control them very well as I can
> with Dharmraj's.

I think that you have to use the Study button.

> I'm using 3D viewer "free wrl" form Source Forge.
>
> Finally found correct key combinations to make larger or smaller but
> when as soon as click on screen yours shoot off to far left off
> screen and  so small that I can only enlarge it so far and no more,
> but it is too small then to be worth much.
>
> Have not been able to spin them yet.
>
> I need to send message to the guy who writes Free wrl programing. He
> has responded to these type problems in past but as new programs are
> written he has to be notified to what exactly is happening.
>
> Adrian rossiter gave me the exact codes the guy needed to fix free
> wrl.
>
> Will see what happens.
>
> Rybo

> On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Jim Lehman wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Attached is a VRML of JL140.  This is a crazy form that needs the
> > 3-D view to better visualize.
> > There are no tets involved in my graphics.  JL140 is reduced as
> > far as it can be.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Steve wrote:
> >>
> >> jim,
> >>
> >> thanks for the numbers.
> >>
> >> JL140...is way confusing to me.
> >>
> >> i see an equilateral triangle on the top right.

It's just the way you're viewing that tet.

> >> I do not see an equilateral triangle below it....yet you have 8
> >> octas ???
> >>
> >> So...does that not mean that        4 tets fits with 2 faces...
> >> and the other four tets with just one face attaching to JL140 ?
> >>
> >> can you take out the four equilateral tets then from JL140 ?
> >>
> >> I am simply trying to reduce Jl;140 if it can be.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> >>

That's more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyritohedral#Pyritohedral_symmetry

I'm using Cortona.

--- In GeoJourney@yahoogroups.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...> wrote:
>
> H,m  I can see your wrl's but cannot control them very well as I can
> with Dharmraj's.
>
> I'm using 3D viewer "free wrl" form Source Forge.

Right and also your not using Free wrl.

Ry

On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Jim Lehman wrote:

rybo,

I'm using a PC so may not be able to help you here.

Jim

rybo6 wrote:

H,m  I can see your wrl's but cannot control them very well as I can with Dharmraj's.

I'm using 3D viewer "free wrl" form Source Forge.

Finally found correct key combinations to make larger or smaller but when as soon as clik on screen yours shoot off to far left off screen and  so small that I can only enlarge it so far and no more, but it is too small then to be weorth much.

Have not been able to spin them yet.

I need to send message to theguyr who writes Free wrl programing. He has responded to these type problems in past but as new programs are written he has to be notified to what exactly is happening.

Adrian rossiter gave me the exact codes the guy needed to fix free wrl.

Will see what happens.

Rybo

On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Jim Lehman wrote:

Steve,

Attached is a VRML of JL140.  This is a crazy form that needs the 3-D view to better visualize.
There are no tets involved in my graphics.  JL140 is reduced as far as it can be.  

Jim

Steve wrote:

jim,   thanks for the numbers.   JL140...is way confusing to me.   i see an equilateral triangle on the top right.   I do not see an equilateral triangle below it....yet you have 8 octas ???   So...does that not mean that        4 tets fits with 2 faces... and the other four tets with just one face attaching to JL140 ?   can you take out the four equilateral tets then from JL140 ?   I am simply trying to reduce Jl;140 if it can be.       steve

<mime-attachment.gif>

H,m  I can see your wrl's but cannot control them very well as I can with Dharmraj's.

I'm using 3D viewer "free wrl" form Source Forge.

Finally found correct key combinations to make larger or smaller but when as soon as clik on screen yours shoot off to far left off screen and  so small that I can only enlarge it so far and no more, but it is too small then to be weorth much.

Have not been able to spin them yet.

I need to send message to theguyr who writes Free wrl programing. He has responded to these type problems in past but as new programs are written he has to be notified to what exactly is happening.

Adrian rossiter gave me the exact codes the guy needed to fix free wrl.

Will see what happens.

Rybo

On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Jim Lehman wrote:

Steve,

Attached is a VRML of JL140.  This is a crazy form that needs the 3-D view to better visualize.
There are no tets involved in my graphics.  JL140 is reduced as far as it can be. 

Jim

Steve wrote:

jim,   thanks for the numbers.   JL140...is way confusing to me.   i see an equilateral triangle on the top right.   I do not see an equilateral triangle below it....yet you have 8 octas ???   So...does that not mean that        4 tets fits with 2 faces... and the other four tets with just one face attaching to JL140 ?   can you take out the four equilateral tets then from JL140 ?   I am simply trying to reduce Jl;140 if it can be.       steve

<mime-attachment.gif>

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<mime-attachment.gif><JL140  final L-concave icosa core.wrl>

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jim,   thanks for the numbers.   JL140...is way confusing to me.   i see an equilateral triangle on the top right.   I do not see an equilateral triangle below it....yet you have 8 octas ???   So...does that not mean that        4 tets fits with 2 faces... and the other four tets with just one face attaching to JL140 ?   can you take out the four equilateral tets then from JL140 ?   I am simply trying to reduce Jl;140 if it can be.       steve

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Jim,    I'm not sure what you mean by extracting a regular tet... It appears that the 8 tets attached to the triangular faces of the thingie (sent earlier) are not what you need here.   the sent earlier depiction shows the 8 tets as part of the thingie...(need a number please...L30001 ?) i simply want you to remove/extract/take-away those 8 tets...what remains of the thingie ?   I was trying to make it easy...by asking you to remove just one of those 8 tets...but i really want to see what the thingie looks like WITHOUT the 8 tets....   if that CAN be done, then alternatively,  one could imagine that those 8 tets were simply another component...and not part of your thingie. Thus,  you would have octas and tets and the icosa and the reduced-thingie; the one WITHOUT ANY tets.   steve Jim Steve wrote: Jim,   Perfect.  Thank you.   I got the wrl fine....so that  graphic...   Can you extract a regular tet from anywhere a regular triangle appears please ?   steve    -------Original Message-------   From: Jim Lehman Date: 11/04/09 12:30:27 To: Steve; geojourney Subject: Re: just some early snooping around....   Steve, I will get these recent graphics identified with L numbers soon.  Good suggestion. I have attached the L-concave icosahedron as a WRL (VRML) with an open face for viewing inside. Steve wrote: Jim,   First...please give these graphics....an Lxxxx number for rference.   Looking closer at the thingie....I now see only 4 tets could be extracted not 8 tets.   i get a volume for the iscoa at 1.355932  and the octas at 0.074304.   Neither of those values stick out at all to me...no sqrt,  no 2 or 3 or or 5 times something.   We do know that your ( still unclear what to call stuff )  biggest element (L-concave icosahedron) is more than a third larger than a 1x1x1 cube.   We also know that it takes almost 13 and a half octas to fill a 1x1x1 cube.   Not all that useless yet.  i had hoped some linking numbers  would have shown up...they did not. That does not mean a hoot though....i am just looking around....investigating, analyzing.   i still want to try an extract any reg solids from the negative space thingie...L?????   can you make wrl or vrml form Sketch-Up... (yes) I do not recall.   steve

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09 12:11:00

Jim,   First...please give these graphics....an Lxxxx number for rference.   Looking closer at the thingie....I now see only 4 tets could be extracted not 8 tets.   i get a volume for the iscoa at 1.355932  and the octas at 0.074304.   Neither of those values stick out at all to me...no sqrt,  no 2 or 3 or or 5 times something.   We do know that your ( still unclear what to call stuff )  biggest element (L-concave icosahedron) is more than a third larger than a 1x1x1 cube.   We also know that it takes almost 13 and a half octas to fill a 1x1x1 cube.   Not all that useless yet.  i had hoped some linking numbers  would have shown up...they did not. That does not mean a hoot though....i am just looking around....investigating, analyzing.   i still want to try an extract any reg solids from the negative space thingie...L?????   can you make wrl or vrml form Sketch-Up... (yes) I do not recall.   steve