Buxley wrote:
>I filtered out the dashes that were outside the continental US
>(or over water) which trimmed their number from 450 down to 266.
>
>By the luck of the draw, or lack thereof, there don't seem to be
>any 'dashes' near me so I may not be able to try for any this game.

That's quite a high ratio of ocean waypoints, isn't it? In Game B, due
August 1, all of the ocean waypoints near land will be manually shifted to
get them over land, thus increasing the number of reachable waypoints for
those players who happen to live near the coast.

And there will be a lot more waypoints generated in the first place,
increasing the likelihood of having caches near you wherever you happen to
live.

Finally, all the waypoints will be manually screened for reachability. There
will be no guarantees, since I can't visit each spot, but I hope that most
waypoints will be both reachable and reasonably likely to be an attractive
spot to visit. But there will still be an element of chance involved that
should keep things slightly unpredictable.

That's the theory anyway. Stay tuned.
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Thanks for the map, Buxley. As with all your other maps on
http://www.brillig.com/geocaching, it looks great. I've changed the link on
the Geodashing home page to use your map instead of mine.

I just hope our Canadian and Mexican players don't get too upset that their
waypoints don't show up anymore.

As for making the map "clickable", that's high on my wish list. I played
around with creating an imagemap myself, but was foiled by the difficulty of
working with a map projection where the lines of longitude are curved.
Another question is what do you link to? I planned to add NAME attributes to
HTML anchor elements in the waypoints_A.htm table and click through to that.
But I haven't gotten around to modifying the table yet to make it ready for
the imagemap. Did you have some idea of linking to something else?
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Geodashing
group.

   File        : /Game A/geodash_game_1.gif
   Uploaded by : edhall@...
   Description : Map for Game A (land 'dashes only)

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geodashing/files/Game%20A/geodash_game_1.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

edhall@...

I've drawn a slightly larger map of the geodash locations for Game A,
although I haven't had a chance to make them "clickable" yet. You can
find the map at:

   http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/images/geodash_game_1.gif

I filtered out the dashes that were outside the continental US (or
over water) which trimmed their number from 450 down to 266.

By the luck of the draw, or lack thereof, there don't seem to be
any 'dashes' near me so I may not be able to try for any this game.

I hope this map helps.

-Buxley

Matt Stum asked:
>May I ask how you generated the map?

With a control file of coordinates stored in:
http://www.geocities.com/gc_scout/Geodashing/waypoints_A.txt . (This was the
tip that Buxley gave me.)

Then feed that to the US government's census mapping program at:

http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapgen?lon=-96.000&lat=37.000&wid=50&ht=24.1&mur\
l=http://www.geocities.com/gc_scout/Geodashing/waypoints_A.txt

Now, if I could only find a simple way to generate an imagemap to go along
with it. Converting the coords for longitude (which "curves") into pixel x/y
offsets (which don't) is tricky.

Actually, what I'd like even more is for some geocachers to go out and find
some of these spots. Time is running out on the first game and so far we
have only one hit (Markwell's), and that only if we relax the 100 meter
rule.
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I have added a map of waypoints to the Geodashing web site (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geodashing ) that shows all the waypoints for
the first game (thanks, Buxley, for the tip).

I haven't created an imagemap to allow you to click on individual waypoints.
You still need to search them out in the table. But you should be able to
get a good idea if there are any waypoints nearby to make it worth your
while to look them up in the table.

The first waypoints were selected randomly, which is why so many are over
the Atlantic, the Gulf, and the Pacific. Markwell remains the only
contestant to have reached a waypoint in Game A, and then only if we relax
the rule that you must get within 100 meters of the waypoint to score it.
His waypoint was in the middle of a cornfield. He uploaded a panoramic photo
of the site. Game A ends on July 31.

In the second game, starting August 1, the waypoints will be human selected
using a map. There will still be a chance that a waypoint is unreachable,
but much less so than in this first edition of the game.

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>From: Matt Stum <matt@...>
>While 100 meters is still a huge distance (certainly doesn't
>require a GPS), 800 ft exceeds the 100 meter rule.  Does it still qualify
>as "the first hit"?

If the closest distance was 800 ft, it will not qualify as an official hit.

Because the Geodashing waypoints are randomly selected, they are often much
harder to reach than geocaching spots. 100 meters was used as the limit
because that's what is used by the Degree Confluence Project, another GPS
game with similar difficulty for target waypoints. It seems to work well
there.
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>From: Matt Stum <matt@...>
>Subject: Re: [Geodashing] First Hit!
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:45:40 -0500
>
>Does getting within 0.15 *miles* (nearly 800 ft) really
>qualify as a hit?! It certainly doesn't require a GPS for that sort of
>accuracy...

The rules state that you must get within 100 meters to score the waypoint.

Of course, you can still enjoy the hunt even if getting that close is not
possible, due to terrain or private property issues.

I was thinking of changing the rules to allow a greater distance, but also
allow a second person to take the waypoint away if the second person can get
closer. But for this first edition of Geodashing, 100 meters is the distance
needed to officially score the waypoint.
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Geodashing
group.

   File        : /Game A/Panorama360.jpg
   Uploaded by : MarkLent60544@...
   Description : CD-A176 360° shot

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geodashing/files/Game%20A/Panorama360.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

MarkLent60544@...

Congratulations. Let's see if your score of "one" holds up for the victory
in this first edition of Geodashing.

>From: MarkLent60544@...
>To: Geodashing@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Geodashing] First Hit!
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:56:42 -0000
>
>CD-A176 has been hit.  N41.3838 W-88.4925

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CD-A176 has been hit.  N41.3838 W-88.4925

Early this morning (6:30 a.m. CDT), I set out for the 22 mile journey
from my house.  Back country roads, early in the morning and the flat
features of Illinois made it so I was there in record time (don't want
to post the time, lest a state trooper is listening!).

The choice of these particular coordinates prove randomness and bell
curve theory better than any statistics course could.  Most of
Illinois is corn or bean field farmland, divided by a grid of roads
running due north-south and due east-west.  That accurately describes
this location to the letter.

I approached from the northeast, and came in on country roads.  The
particular road on which I was driving got me no closer than 0.67
miles, so I followed it south over Interstate 80 and drive a mile west
on Route 6 (which parallels I-80).  From there I picked up Pioneer
Road, which also crossed over I-80.  My GPS indicated the point that
it was due east of my position, and I parked the car and got out with
my camera.

I was in the middle of a cornfield, with a little culvert - no water
in the ditch, but also no corn.  Had I been wearing appropriate
clothes, I could have gotten closer, but the terrain would not have
changed.  At the final stopping point I was 0.15 miles due west of the
dash point, with nothing around but a mile of corn in every direction
and the road I came in on.  I consider this spot hit.

I shot up my role of film to make a 360° panoramic shot, and will post
the composit after I get the film developed.  Thanks for an
interesting trip.

Markwell

From: MarkLent60544@...
>Markwell's Question:  If I go out to the dash location and get there,
>I'm probably going to take a picture of my GPS.  Do you have a
>mechanism in place to be able to attach JPGs as a field to the
>Geodashing record?

There's a basic mechanism supplied by YahooGroups. In the "Files" section of
the group, I've created a folder called "Game A". Members can upload files
to this folder. Just use a file name that identifies the waypoint (e.g.,
GD-A176.jpg) and it'll be possible to find things.
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These forwarded messages were sent to the list moderator instead of the
list. I am forwarding them to the list because it is apparent that they were
meant for the list.

From: MarkLent60544@...
>To: "GC Scout" <gc_scout@...>
>Subject: (Possible Duplicate) Re: problem questions
>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:34:57 -0000
>
>I thought I replied to this originally, but I can't seem to find the
>post.  Maybe it's hiding in neverland.  If so, Scout would you just
>delete whichever one you want (preferrably the first).
>===============================
>
>Mike asked: How does one verify that they've visited the waypoint?
>
>Scout Replied: For now, only an email describing the waypoint and the
>journey to reach it is necessary. The email should contain enough
>detail that if someone wanted to challenge the claim, there would be a
>way to prove yes or no. If this becomes an issue, we could add a
>requirement that the finder submit an photograph of the spot, similar
>to the requirement of the Degree Confluence Project. But I don't want
>to make that a requirement right off the bat. I'm hoping that
>geocachers can basically be trusted on this.
>
>Markwell's Question:  If I go out to the dash location and get there,
>I'm probably going to take a picture of my GPS.  Do you have a
>mechanism in place to be able to attach JPGs as a field to the
>Geodashing record?
>
>Mike asked: Entering 450 waypoints would be rather tedious also..
>
>Scout Replied: I'm hoping that some generous soul will publish a US
>map with the waypoints pinpointed on it. That would reduce the number
>of waypoints that any one player would have to worry about.
>
>Markwell's Solution: If I know my starting point (example my home is
>rougly 41.6° -88.3°) I should be able to set up some visual parameters
>by scanning the database.  I'm probably not going to look south of
>41° or north of 42° for these; likewise not east of -87.5° or west of
>-89°.
>
>With that in mind, I viewed the printable report in the database
>(sorted by Latitude) and found those that matched my criteria.  I'm
>left with two waypoints: GD-A161 and GD-A176.  161 is farther east
>than I'd like to travel, so I'll probably visit 176, near an
>interstate in farm country.  In fact, doing some quick calculations,
>that location is only 22 miles from my front door (bearing 225° or
>SW).
>
>So that's the one I'm entering in from this Geodash.  If I travel
>sometime between now and the next posting of coordinates, I'll do the
>same with my proposed route and the points.
>
>The same thing could also be done with XY graphing in MS Excel, but
>now I'm getting REALLY geeky.  I haven't gotten a mapping program yet
>and my little eTrex contains no maps.  However, I can do a Route
>(point to point to point) for a road trip I'm taking in the near
>future, with major points listed in decimal format.  Using an XY
>scatter graph, I have a close approximation of my course, but without
>state lines or roads.  Just the points and the course line.  I then
>can add in a second set of XY coordinates and have them overlayed on
>the Excel graph and see if any of the coordinates are close to the
>path.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: MarkLent60544@...
>To: "GC Scout" <gc_scout@...>
>Subject: Re: problem questions
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:33:01 -0000
>
>--- In Geodashing@y..., "GC Scout" <gc_scout@h...> wrote:
> > Mike asked:
> > >How does one verify that they've visited the waypoint?
> >
> > For now, only an email describing the waypoint and the
> > journey to reach it is necessary. The email should contain
> > enough detail that if someone wanted to challenge the claim,
> > there would be a way to prove yes or no.
> >
> > If this becomes an issue, we could add a requirement that
> > the finder submit an photograph of the spot, similar to the
> > requirement of the Degree Confluence Project. But I don't
> > want to make that a requirement right off the bat. I'm hoping
> > that geocachers can basically be trusted on this.
>
>I, too would hope they could be trusted, but in the meantime, if I
>visit one of these locations, you can BET I'll be taking a photo of my
>eTrex to prove it.  Do you have a mechanism in place to upload the
>photo(s) so that other cachers could view photos?

_________________________________________________________________
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From: MarkLent60544@...
>To: "GC Scout" <gc_scout@...>
>Subject: Re: problem questions
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:23:09 -0000
>
>--- In Geodashing@y..., "GC Scout" <gc_scout@h...> wrote:
> > >Entering 450 waypoints would be rather tedious also..
> >
> > I'm hoping that some generous soul will publish a US map with
> > the waypoints pinpointed on it. That would reduce the number
> > of waypoints that any one player would have to worry about.
>
>If you know your home coordinates, you should be able to extrapolate
>how close/far any given waypoint is.  For example, I know that my home
>is around N41.6° and W-88.2°.  So I would start off by excluding any
>waypoints >N42° and <N39.8° and also exclude any <W-87° and >W-89°.
>From the first database that leaves me with only two to check:
>GD-A161, GD-A176.
>
>I found GD-A161 at N41.1584 W-87.8586 is 38.6 miles SE, and GD-A176 at
>N41.3838 W-88.4925 is 22.50 Miles SW.  After checking MapBlast, of
>those two, I'm probably going to log GD-A176 just because it's open
>farm land near an interstate, and I don't want to drive all the way to
>GD-A161.
>
>The key is to know your own coordinates, find coordinates close to
>your central point and then look them up on www.MapBlast.com (which
>Scout has conveniently linked).  The only other thing to do is expand
>it to cover areas in which you'll be travelling in the summer vacation
>months (since Scout said he's going to publish another set in August).

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From: placeman33@...
>This is really cool idea.  I was looking at the first several coor.
>for the dash...when I clicked on the maps, it put them in th middle
>of the Atlantic Ocean.  I can't imagine this game being THAT
>serious. :)

I hear you on that. The way the waypoints were generated was by drawing a
rectangle containing the continental US, then dividing that rectangle into a
grid. Then randomly picking a point inside each grid element. The grid was
processed from Florida to Maine, then moving west one grid column and going
south to north again, gradually working west.

One side effect of this process is that the first several waypoints end up
in the Atlantic Ocean. It could be confusing and discouraging to browse the
list and not find anything worth looking at near the top.

But pick waypoints down the list and you get a different picture. I still
hope to get a mapping system in place, which will solve most of the
confusion about this matter, but I don't have any schedule.

I also plan to use human-selected waypoints for the next edition of
Geodashing, due out in August. That will eliminate all the ocean waypoints
altogether.

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Thanks for the feedback.

I expect that many of the random waypoints will pose problems of one sort or
the other. There are quite a few waypoints that fall out in the ocean. A lot
of others fall on private land. That's why I'm thinking that future editions
of Geodashing will feature human selected points.

Scout
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Sounds like a great idea for a new game, Scout. I looked at the
database and it looks like the closest site for me is at the far end
of the San Francisco bay area. I might be in the neighborhood next
weekend so I'll try to swing by and tell you what's there.

The next closest site appears to be about 100 miles offshore in the
Pacific Ocean. I might have to pass on finding that one... =)

-Buxley

"Cache Across America" is an attempt to link a chain of Caches across
America. We start on the Atlantic Coast. A finder of a cache on the east
coast chooses a cache farther inland that he has also visited as the next
cache in the chain. A visitor to that cache nominates another cache farther
west yet, and so on, until a cache finder links the cache chain to a cache
on the Pacific Coast.

If you want to get the chain off to a good start or extend it by a link,
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica and help us along.


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Here's the reply I sent:

I was thinking that Geodashing could be rolled into the Wondert scheme
by simply adding a Category R for Random waypoint and give it a 99
rank maybe so you would gets lots of points for bagging the randoms.

  When you ask the Downloader for wonderts within a certain Area or
Route it could produce the Randoms then just for your area.

At the very least maybe Geodashing and Wonderts Game can share some
of the same code.

Dave...

Yahoo, bounced my reply to your last posting saying the the gc
scout@... account was not yet active.

Dave...

Has anyone else examined the waypoints generated for the first game? I
looked at the four or five nearest me and found that they should all be
easily reachable. The only issue might be getting property owner permission
to reach the spots.

What would people think of having future games use waypoints that are all
located inside, say, national, state, or city parks? Or maybe a game where
all waypoints are located in cities and towns? Both of these themes would
increase the chances of being able to reach the waypoints without
trespassing on private property.
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I enhanced the HTML page of waypoints to include a link to a MapBlast map.
The page is found in the "Files" section of
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geodashing.

The page already included links to Topozone maps and Terraserver aerial
photographs, but looking first at a good highway map seemed the best way to
judge which nearby waypoints might be reachable.

Until we get good maps of the US and states showing the waypoints with
pushpins, this table and links will have to do.

By the way, in checking out some of the waypoints, I noticed that one was
northwest of Montreal. So the random waypoint generator I used does not
restrict the resulting waypoints to the US. Canada geocachers can play, too.
(And so can dolphins. Several of the waypoints are in the Atlantic Ocean or
Gulf of Mexico!)
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From: daveulmer@...
>Geodashing shows lots of promise! ...
>Developing the waypoint lists will be the real trick here.

I used random waypoint generation for the first game to get the ball
rolling. But I envisioned using human-selected waypoints in the long run.
But I am of two minds on this.

On the one hand, the Degree Confluence Project uses arbitrary waypoints and
some people obviously enjoy the challenge of getting to remote waypoints
that have no intrinsic value other than they happen to be degree confluence
points. In this first game of Geodashing, Geodashing is like that.

On the other hand, there are probably thousands of great waypoints that
people would like to share with others, but the waypoints just don't lend
themselves to physical caches. Or maybe people just don't have the time or
money to create and stash that many geocaches. Instead, they could just note
the waypoint and save it for Geodashing. Geodashing could include these
human-selected way-points easily.

Because Geodashing is designed to be a game with a time limit, followed by a
new game, there's room for both ways of selecting waypoints. Some games
could be random, some human-selected, some games could use a theme (like
parks, or cities, or rivers, you get the idea).

In summary, I don't think selecting the waypoints is going to be that tricky
at all. The game supports all sorts of options there.
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Geodashing shows lots of promise! Sounds like Fun! Developing the
wapoint lists will be the real trick here. I will be working over at
the GPSgames forum for a while to start an Ideabase for GPS games.
Keep up the good work!!

Dave...

Just wanted to say how much i like the name Geodashing. It's great!
Very good...  ;-)

-Florian

http://www.stargazer.org/geocaching/

Mike asked:
>How does one verify that they've visited the waypoint?

For now, only an email describing the waypoint and the journey to reach it
is necessary. The email should contain enough detail that if someone wanted
to challenge the claim, there would be a way to prove yes or no.

If this becomes an issue, we could add a requirement that the finder submit
an photograph of the spot, similar to the requirement of the Degree
Confluence Project. But I don't want to make that a requirement right off
the bat. I'm hoping that geocachers can basically be trusted on this.

>how did you get these waypoints? do you even know where they are
>(specifically -- on private property, on lakes, oceans, inside buildings?
>etc. etc)? or are they just randomly generated?

This first set was randomly generated. I know for a fact that some are over
open ocean. I wouldn't be surprised that many are on private property.
Players should always get permission of the landowner before trespassing.
Again, the success of this game (and the Degree Confluence Project, for that
matter) depends on geocachers being good citizens.

>To me this seems more like the Confluence project, but with
>randomness...

That may be true.

>Entering 450 waypoints would be rather tedious also..

I'm hoping that some generous soul will publish a US map with the waypoints
pinpointed on it. That would reduce the number of waypoints that any one
player would have to worry about.
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How does one verify that they've visited the waypoint?

how did you get these waypoints? do you even know where they are
(specifically -- on private property, on lakes, oceans, inside buildings?
etc. etc)? or are they just randomly generated?

To me this seems more like the Confluence project, but with randomness...

Entering 450 waypoints would be rather tedious also.. For a newbie, they
might enter them all in, use up the majority of their waypoint memory, and
then discover there's only 2 or 3 waypoints within a reasonable distance...











Mike Teague -- http://home.earthlink.net/~kvuo/

Geodashing Directions
---------------------

Games are published at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geodashing.

Click "Join" to register with Yahoo and follow the directions.

Click "Files", then "Introduction" for an overview of Geodashing.
Click "Files", then "Directions" to see these directions.

Click "Files", then click on a Game to see a Web page of waypoints.
Click "Database" to see the game scores or download a spreadsheet
of waypoints. The official datum of the game is WGS84.

Team up with other geocachers to increase your chances of winning.

Go hunting.
You must get within 100 meters of the waypoint to score it.
If the waypoint is on private property, secure the permission of the
landowner before trespassing.

For each waypoint you reach, email Geodashing@yahoogroups.com.
Describe the waypoint and your experiences in reaching it.
A photograph would be helpful, but it is not required.
If you are a member of a team, name the team to get credit.

Scoring: only the first team to reach a waypoint scores the point.
The team with the most waypoints reached when the games ends, wins!

June 5, 2001

Are you interested in more competition and teamwork in your
geocaching?  Is the journey more important to you than the trinkets?
Are you concerned about the environmental issues with geocaching?

I am, so I scratched me head to see how to adapt geocaching to better
satisfy some of them.  Don't get me wrong.  I like geocaching a lot
and realize that a lot of people love the good old-fashioned GPS hunt
for hidden treasure. It's here to stay.  But if you want to try a
variant that's a little more competitive, consider geocache racing.

Here's how it works. In each game, a large set of waypoints is posted
on the Web. Then, the race is on to see who can reach the most
waypoints in a given time period.  Geocachers can participate as
individuals or teams to increase the number of waypoints reached.

Some waypoints are selected by humans, but many are locations chosen
at random by computer, with all the unpredictability that offers.
Check out the Degree Confluence project (http://www.confluence.org)
for just how hard an arbitrary waypoint can be to reach. Some of our
waypoints may even be over the ocean.

Because the waypoints are spread all over the country, it doesn't
matter where in the USA you live. Waypoints are as likely to be near
to you as to anyone else.

And teamwork certainly helps. Teams can consist of up to five
geocachers, so put your new cross-country acquaintances to good use.

Because the waypoints are all virtual caches, there's no danger of
being accused of littering.  Because there is a new set of waypoints
each game, there's no danger of long-term impact of too many visitors
to a sensitive environment.

On the other hand, there is no money for winning, not even trinkets
to be taken from the caches, as the caches are all virtual.  It's the
hunt that matters and the friendships you develop along the way, so
it's true to the spirit of geocaching.

Games are set up at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geodashing.

June 5, 2001