Thanks oldonliner and everyone else for their help. Is it possible
that these IP's all belong to same person? This individual I believe
has several different Yahoo Id's and she sent me an email today
requesting membership in my club under a new ID which she is similar
to one she used before.

X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35
X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36
X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42


--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, oldonliner <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, "kris"
<softbrezes45@s...>
> wrote:
> >
> > i would be very interested in this also..how do you find an ip
address for
> > someone! there is a particulary nasty person going around to all
my groups
> > who has many many email addys, and he will get in our groups
under one of
> > them that we dont know...he is very persistant, and very
nasty...i moderate
> > most of my groups, but am now very leery letting someone in just
on thier
> > say so"...so how do i find out who  they are, and where they come
from?
> > thanks!
> >
> >
> >
>
> The IP address is found in the FULL headers of any post sent by
> email.  Click the VIEW SOURCE link while reading the message in the
> web archives.  See documentation for how to do the same trick in
the
> mail client program of your choice.
>
> 1 - Don't play with trolls. COMPLETELY ignore them.
>
> 2 - Moderate yourself and new members.
>
> 3 - In a group, like GMF, that allows members to hide email and IP
> addresses, it is the MEMBER'S option to use the feature. This
option
> is found in your member settings at -
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GroupManagersForum/join
>
> (This information is mentioned in our Welcome Message which is
> automatically posted each and every month.)
>
>
> Mark
> --
> GMF is NOT a software or email program support group.

Despite the fact that i've been beating everyone up on this subject and
saying that this kind of investigation is a waste of time, I did your
homework for you. I went to www.geektools.com and used their look up link at
the top right corner of the page.

Here's what they reported:
OrgName: Yahoo!
OrgID: YAOO
Address: 701 First Avenue
City: Sunnyvale
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94089
Country: US

To the best of my knowledge Yahoo! is NOT an ISP. Therefore these IP
addresses probably do NOT reflect the PC used by the individual who sent the
requests.

In the absense of a good definition by Y!G of what X-eGroups-Remote-IP
means, I wouldn't rely on it for anything. If the email came from a Yahoo!
address then odds are these IP's reflect the server that provided the web
mail interface for that particular message. But I certainly don't know for
sure.

Just deny membership whenever you have a "feeling". Get over the 60's
feeling of fair play for the masses. You are the boss and if it doesn't seem
right to you at first blush then don't do it.

Regards,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "gilchristjanet" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: <GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Questions


>
>
> Thanks oldonliner and everyone else for their help. Is it possible
> that these IP's all belong to same person? This individual I believe
> has several different Yahoo Id's and she sent me an email today
> requesting membership in my club under a new ID which she is similar
> to one she used before.
>
> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35
> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36
> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42
>
> >

I own and moderate various groups to which I have attempted to upload
MPEG and MPEG/MP3 files to the Files sections. I receive a "Cannot
Display This Page" response, and the file fails to upload. It gets
rejected. Most of these files are at or below 700KB of memory, well
below the limit allowed for uploading such files. Can anyone tell me
what the problem may be, and is there a way around it?

Also, when attempting to paste an MPEG/MP3 file into a word document,
it will not allow me to do so, with an indication that some sort
of "MP3 I.D." is required. This has not been an issue with standard
MPEG files not associated with MP3. If anyone can shed any light on
this, I would deeply appreciate this as well.

Feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any theories, ideas or
suggestions.

Thank you for any possible help you can offer to me.

Philip

Will I for one have learn that IPs can be changed and that it is not
a true give away.


Bouncing members... Will that is just one thing that we cannot
concroll since people are going to do that because of them not
clearing their mail boxes or setting them up for no-mail went they
leave for a long time.

Plus other stuff that I can't remember. So what have you all learn
this week?? Would you like to share your skills. I would love to hear
about them. Joseph

> Bouncing members... Well that is just one thing that we cannot
> controll since people are going to do that because of them not
> clearing their mail boxes or setting them up for no-mail when they
> leave for a long time.

There is also a third scenario:

Sometimes moderators take it upon themselves to set the delivery
method of all their members to "email". Members who do not read
their email and have set their delivery to no-email are caught
unaware and start bouncing.

I personally would like to see Yahoo take the ability to set the
delivery method away from moderators and leave it in the hands of
the members. I admit though, that I have not thought out all the
ramifications, and would be interested in others' point of view.

--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, ottawahitech
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
>
> > Bouncing members... because of them not
> > clearing their mail boxes or setting them up for no-mail when they
> > leave for a long time.
>
> There is also a third scenario:
>
> Sometimes moderators take it upon themselves to set the delivery
> method of all their members to "email". Members who do not read
> their email and have set their delivery to no-email are caught
> unaware and start bouncing.

You are so right about that.
----I make it a point to mention in the pending and approve letters
that if they're on indiv-mail it will be set to daliy, if they are on
specical or no-mail then no changes will be made. This is the "ONLY"
time I make "ANY" changes and this works real well for me. I had one
guy rise hell because he was'nt smart to change it and just unsub and
he was still getting mail and I got one nasty letter from him.----

>
> I personally would like to see Yahoo take the ability to set the
> delivery method away from moderators and leave it in the hands of
> the members. I admit though, that I have not thought out all the
> ramifications, and would be interested in others' point of view.

----Here some members aren't smart to do so and do like the above---
Ofcouse this don't keep them from bouncing. Joseph

Two days ago I posted a message to this Group thru the web. I was
hoping it would eventually find its way to this Group - but no luck.

The message was not a response to another message, but a start of a
new thread, and I know it was not rejected by the moderators. It
simply did not show up at all.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Indeed, here is the log entry for the message:

2/2/2005 10:16 am ottawahitech <Email Private> Message sent via
web: "Virus in Groups?"

Very odd... never appeared in any email notification of pending msg,
and there is no entry to indicate it was ever deleted.

Did you perhaps change your profile the email address set as member
of the group just after posting?  Not that I'd expect that to make a
difference since - thanks to your suggestion - GMF allows ANYONE -
including non-members - to post. And there is nothing in the logs
reflecting any such change.

Did you briefly go bouncing? Again, nothing in the logs, but they're
notoriously out of date.


Hmmmm...



--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, ottawahitech wrote:
>
>
> Two days ago I posted a message to this Group thru the web. I was
> hoping it would eventually find its way to this Group - but no luck.
>
> The message was not a response to another message, but a start of a
> new thread, and I know it was not rejected by the moderators. It
> simply did not show up at all.
>
> Has this happened to anyone else?

Not to **rejoin** promotional groups where the moderator unsubscribe
bouncing emails before Yahoo can reset members' mail!
If more moderators would follow suit, there will be no one to post to
these groups.

BC Don


>  > Bouncing members... Well that is just one thing that we cannot
>  > controll since people are going to do that because of them not
>  > clearing their mail boxes or setting them up for no-mail when they
>  > leave for a long time.
>
>There is also a third scenario:
>
>Sometimes moderators take it upon themselves to set the delivery
>method of all their members to "email". Members who do not read
>their email and have set their delivery to no-email are caught
>unaware and start bouncing.
>
>I personally would like to see Yahoo take the ability to set the
>delivery method away from moderators and leave it in the hands of
>the members. I admit though, that I have not thought out all the
>ramifications, and would be interested in others' point of view.

Hi,

I belong to a group that would like to set up their calendar for
sharing. How does a group manager change their calendar to sharing?

Thanks.
Carla Hillstrom
http://www.cmhe.com
http://www.cmhe.net

For the life of me I cannot think of why any owner/moderator would
even want to set how a group member gets group messages!?  That is
something for the member, not the moderator to decide.

If the moderator of a group I am a member of changed my delivery
method, I would first change myself back to MY preference and then
write and ask why the moderator had changed MY preference without my
permission. If the moderator did it again, I'd just unsubscribe!

(The only subscribers I tend to chafe at, somewhat, are those on
"Daily Digest" as they all too often tend to include the entire daily
digest as a part of their reply...and while including unnecessary
repetition in replies is another whole discussion, it's another reason
to moderate ALL messages!)

So...you have bouncing members!  Sometimes after a reasonable period,
I just delete them from the group, especially if they are
"hard-bouncing", meaning the email address is just plain "dead"...no
good!  But overall, bouncing members is no big deal, folks, and I just
let them keep on bouncing. No skin off my - or the Group's - nose!

Another trick I have learned is NEVER subscribe to UNmoderated groups.
The spammers can just send out anything and generally, even if I am on
"no mail", as I almost always am, I find the messages are largely junk
and without any merit.

<< Forum members on "Daily Digest" tend to include the entire
daily digest as a part of their reply ... another reason to
moderate ALL messages! >>

I handle the quoting problem several ways in the mpals forum
that I manage.

1. On the forum home page that describes the forum:

MPals stresses not wasting other people's time. Examples:
** If people quote other messages we ask them to quote selectively.
** We ask people to send short PERSONAL messages (e.g. "Thank
you Lisa.") directly to the person rather than to the forum.
The result is that the mpals forum is much more information dense
than most forums -- Members get MORE useful information with
LESS total reading. If you like that idea, give us a try. On the
other hand, if having to follow "Be Considerate of other people's
time" posting rules bugs you, then mpals is not for you.

2. The welcome letter new members receive includes this paragraph:

QUOTING
     When you're replying to a message DO NOT routinely copy
the entire original message into your message. If your software
does this automatically, and you can't figure out how to turn off
that option, then use your DELETE key to get rid of everything
except those original message phrases or sentences that help
show what you're replying to. Quote selectively - just enough to
let the reader know what you're referring to; most of the time
one to five lines per quote is enough. This is a _very_ important
rule in e-mail etiquette AND on this forum!

3. I have Yahoo add this brief policies summary to every mailing:

Forum Policies Summary
* If you quote, quote SELECTIVELY (1-5 lines/quote).
* Send short personal messages (e.g. Thank you.)
   to the PERSON, not to the forum.
* Make sure the subject describes your post.

Does that mean smooth sailing and no problem with selective
quoting? No. <G> But the way that I handle that is to keep all
new members on moderated status until they demonstrate that
they can quote selectively.

If/when people don't bother to quote selectively, they will
inevitably include the forum policies summary in what they
quote. So I have an e-mail signature that really simplifies
my job. The "signature" is really a short note:

= = = = =
When people apply to join this forum Selective Quoting is
emphasized.

In the post you have submitted here's part of what you quoted:
Forum Policies Summary
* If you quote, quote SELECTIVELY (1-5 lines/quote).

Please resubmit your message using selective quoting.
If you'd like to see examples of selective quoting, notice
other people quoting selectively in their messages.

Rich, forum manager
= = = = =

You're welcome to copy/use anything above that you find
useful.

Rich in Minnesota USA
[Moderator removed commercial link not related to Y!groups.]

--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, "Carla Hillstrom" wrote:
>
>
> I belong to a group that would like to set up their calendar for
> sharing. How does a group manager change their calendar to sharing?
>

In the Management Page - under Group Settings section - click the Web
Tools link on right.  Check the appropriate box and save.

By "sharing" I take it you want it made public, so that non-members
can view it?  That's the first option in the Calendar section -
  "Public (anyone, including non-members, can view events."

Your Yahoo Group's Calendar preferences - default view mode, time
zone, events list, etc. are all controlled from the Calendar itself.
That is located in the lower right side and listed as: "Groups
Calendar Options: <Edit Options>"

Members control whether a group calendar appears in their personal
Yahoo Calendar and how it appears from their Yahoo Calendar -
http://calendar.yahoo.com/ . Using the link at top right of the main
calendar display - My Time Guides - Click "Edit" there.


Mark
--
Who reminds readers that Yahoo Groups is just a very tiny subset of
the much larger Yahoo universe. Most of Yahoo doesn't even know Yahoo!
Groups exists much less give a damn about them.

Me too. But it's all sorted now anyway. But it made me
wonder why it never appeared.

And no, I hadn't changed addy, ID, or been bouncing.

Best,

Pat ;=)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

> Another trick I have learned is NEVER subscribe to
> UNmoderated groups.

You mean groups without 'All Messages Are Moderated'
being in force? (Or just 'New Members Are Moderated'?)
There are few like this, I think ;=( Me, I don't mind.
I prefer it because that way everything is on topic
(and we choose our groups, surely,by topic) and the
spammers are stopped.

> The spammers can just send out anything and
> generally, even if I am on
> "no mail", as I almost always am, I find the
> messages are largely junk

Strange, but true. Maybe people try harder to curb
their 'Me too' and 'Hah hah I like that' impulses when
they know the moderators see their messages first?
Don't tempt me - I'd love to put all mine under
moderation. (Well, some.)

I also have learned that it is unwise to join groups
with open membership (anyone can join and anyone can
see who is a member) because of people harvesting
email addies or spamming. And I heartily dislike
special-interest groups (eg medically oriented groups)
in which the archives are open to the public.

Best,

Pat ;=)





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

Hi, Pat. Thanks for your comments to mine! I moderate everyone all the
time. I probably wouldn't have to, but I prefer it that way.  They are
MY groups, after all!

I've chosen to leave all my groups "open" membership, having found
that too many people who might legitimately want to be members and
have something to contribute don't bother to finish the "application"
process if "approval" is required. Besides, if someone is going to
join to "harvest" email addresses, having an approval process won't
necessarily stop them.

What I *do* suggest, in my "welcome" messages (all of which I have
tailored to my groups), is that everyone who has a Yahoo Profile
should consider "hiding" their email address through their Account
Preferences.  Not a total or perfect cure, but it helps.

Folks can, in almost all of my groups, choose to "hide" their email
address as an option in joining the group. Again...not perfect, but it
seems to keep those who are really concerned about privacy a bit happier.

I also have my group's options set to that only members can view the
message archives to prevent searchbots from indexing the messages. In
fact, with all of my groups, all you CAN see if you are not a member
is the basic group homepage.  I figure that gives someone enough
information to decide whether they want to give membership a try.

Thanks again for your comments!

Larry

Did Anyone Notice In The Last Few Days
(That Are Set to "Individual Email")

That Yahoo Is Sending A "Picturial Ad"

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
  Pic.

And In Every Case, When I Reply To Someone
The Original Message Won't "Indent"
(on Outlook Express at least...)

Last Week When Yahoo Sent Just "Text Ads"
The Replies Original Text Indented.

Even Now, When I Reply To Old Messages,
They Indent, But The New Messages With
The "Picturial Ad" Won't.

Any Ideas? ;-)

Shawn

> 1. On the forum home page that describes the forum:
>
> 2. The welcome letter new members receive includes this paragraph:
>
> 3. I have Yahoo add this brief policies summary to every mailing:
>
...
> So I have an e-mail signature that really simplifies
> my job.

Most of the points above help members who participate in Groups through email.
But what about members who participate thru the web and not thru email? Only #1
on this list addresses the needs of these members.

Has anyone found an effective way of communicating with members who do not, or
prefer not to, read email messages?

> I also have my group's options set to that only members can view
> the message archives to prevent searchbots from indexing the
> messages.

I believe Google has not been indexing public Yahoo discussion in
quite a while.

Where can one go to locate public Yahoo discussion?

--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, veggie hound
<veggiehound@y...> wrote:
>
> Me too.

Do you remember when the message you posted disappeared? Was it posted to this
Group or to another Yahoo Group? Did you email the message to the Group or did
you post it on the web?

> Did you perhaps change your profile the email address set as
> member of the group just after posting?

No, I have not touched any of my settings for quite some time.


> Did you briefly go bouncing?

Not that I am aware of, and if I did go bouncing, I did nothing to
correct it.

It's a bit cumbersome, but you can export your membership list and save it to
your computer.  The list tells you who's on "no email".  Then it's just a matter
of picking out those names and sending individual emails to them.  It might not
be worth your time and effort.  It definitely takes time; but in any case I
think it's a good idea to save your membership list.  I export the lists of my
groups daily.  Use the Members link and then the Export tab.  It just takes a
couple of seconds.  Generally, though, I figure that something has to be
something super important in order for me to want to contact my "no email-ers". 
Richard

ottawahitech <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 1. On the forum home page that describes the forum:
>
> 2. The welcome letter new members receive includes this paragraph:
>
> 3. I have Yahoo add this brief policies summary to every mailing:
>
...
> So I have an e-mail signature that really simplifies
> my job.

Most of the points above help members who participate in Groups through email.
But what about members who participate thru the web and not thru email? Only #1
on this list addresses the needs of these members.

Has anyone found an effective way of communicating with members who do not, or
prefer not to, read email messages?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Do you remember when the message you posted
disappeared? Was it posted
>to this Group or to another Yahoo Group? Did you
email the >message to the Group or did you post it on
the web?

It was some weeks ago now, I'm afraid. Yes, I sent it
to *this* group - some hours after I sent it to
another group (I figured the more minds the merrier).
And I cannot remember whether I sent it via email or
posted on the web - I do both/either. (I know I
checked this groups archives first to make sure it
hadn't been covered. I might then have sent from the
web, but I would have had to find and copy my previous
message to send so I could have sent by email.) Sorry,
Not much use.

If it should happen again I won't be so ready to
assume a newbie's post had simply been ignored :=) or
deleted by the moderator and will write to group
owner.

Best,

Pat ;=)

=====
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its
animals are treated." - Gandhi


[Moderators of GMF frequently delete off topic posts without comment.
"Thank you" messages directed at individuals or the group are also
removed without comment. If you're hear to read "thank you" notes,
you're here for the wrong reason. The whole point of GMF is help, no
thanks are required, solicited or expected.]

I personally would be most upset if I was to receive an email from the owner
of a group where I was no email. We as group owners need to respect that
setting and its implied request for no interaction via email.

If no email members care, they will read the postings via the web. If they
don't care, why should you. You are not about to announce the end of the
world, so why care?

There has been much discussion here about changing email settings. The
general conclusion is that it should not be done. Amen.

Regards,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard B" <rboylern@...>
To: <GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] How best to communicate with "no-email" members (Re:
selective quoting)


>
>
> It's a bit cumbersome, but you can export your membership list and save it
> to your computer.  The list tells you who's on "no email".  Then it's just
> a matter of picking out those names and sending individual emails to them.
> It might not be worth your time and effort.  It definitely takes time; but
> in any case I think it's a good idea to save your membership list.  I
> export the lists of my groups daily.  Use the Members link and then the
> Export tab.  It just takes a couple of seconds.  Generally, though, I
> figure that something has to be something super important in order for me
> to want to contact my "no email-ers".  Richard
>
> ottawah

I have alwasy been able to search the complete internet headers of
group postings using the normal group message search.

For instance, I could search for an IP and it would return with
every message that was posted using that IP. (on groups that log IP)

I also could search on the unique Yahoo ID number which is (was) much
faster and more efficient than searching by the normal yahoo ID.

Today, I can't seem to do that. The search function is ignoring the
header sections.

Is that a temporary thing or a permanent change (I hope not!!!)

Karen H

> I have always been able to search the complete internet headers of
> group postings using the normal group message search.
>
> Today, I can't seem to do that. The search function is ignoring the
> header sections.
>
> Is that a temporary thing or a permanent change (I hope not!!!)

I believe the Yahoo Group search is broken, again.

I did a search yesterday on a certain word, but the search came back
with only a few of the messages containing this word. Too bad Google
is no longer carrying public Yahoo Groups.

As I was searching for more "Blog" information, I came across a Blog
by Mark Fletcher (Founder/ONElist). The material is worth reading.

http://www.wingedpig.com/ol/index.html


[Moderator note: Wingedpig.com has been part of GMF's links for at
least 2 years.]

I have always had success (even just now!) if I use my browser's
REFRESH option after getting a result page with poor or no results. I
don't know why it works, but it does.  Sometimes I have to REFRESH
more than once, but it always results in better results.

Maybe I just "wake up" a different or better server somewhere. Go
figure.

Just hit refresh. If that doesn't work, hit refresh again. If that
doesn't work, hit refresh again. If that doesn't work, check for
typo and hit refresh again... lather, rinse, repeat... and so on...



--- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, rhouse77 wrote:
>
>
> I have alwasy been able to search the complete internet headers of
> group postings using the normal group message search.
>
>
> Today, I can't seem to do that. The search function is ignoring the
> header sections.
>
> Is that a temporary thing or a permanent change (I hope not!!!)
>

Hi,

I would like to create an offline backup of the group I am moderating. I have
found two programs that will copy a web site and its sub-directories/files to
hard disk but the configuration options are a bit involved and certain links are
not followed because Yahoo! requires membership for access to certain links
which it does not recognize the program as having.

Has anyone found a fairly simple way of copying their group site and all the
associated links (Files, Database, Messages, etc.) to their home computer for
security and archival?

The two programs I came across are WinHTTrack and Teleport Pro.

Thanks for the help, Steve.

I hope the search is broken... :-]

I also tried the other poster's suggestion about refreshing..
unfortunately that didn't work

I tried searching this group for 47670262
which is my numeric yahoo ID - it didn't turn up anything.
When I searched in the word unique - it brought my first post right
up.

-- In GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com, ottawahitech
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>> I believe the Yahoo Group search is broken, again.
>
> I did a search yesterday on a certain word, but the search came
back
> with only a few of the messages containing this word. Too bad
Google
> is no longer carrying public Yahoo Groups.