In message ISCE_complex-M@yahoogroups.com writes ... Hi Jon I am interested to find out about this group but it blocks enquiries, by posting the text below...
1701
John Mikes
jami_kes
Jan 1, 2009 8:02 pm
Ken, Lewis, Buck, Jerry, Jon, Deborah, et. al., Dualism, dichotomy, bifurcation, 'chaotic system' - with "a logistic function with the control variable at 0.50...
1702
mmbtupr@...
Jan 2, 2009 7:30 pm
from Lewis L. Smith To the extent that science postulates that some permanent, extensive truths like Newton's Mechanics, can exist within a defined...
1703
John M
jami_kes
Jan 2, 2009 8:49 pm
David - Thank you for the 'agreeing' - I don't want to convert you in the other part either: IOW thanx for the 'DIchotomy' (BIfurcation) of your two hats. I...
1704
dsill@...
Jan 2, 2009 10:52 pm
John--I did say that bifurcation is A property of nature, not THE property of nature. I did not say that stable was an original state and that chaotic was a ...
1705
shumate
shumatedeborah
Jan 3, 2009 5:50 am
I probably missed a response, being busy with mundane chores that I must do to ensure the survival of my family (tossing of debt here and there, very boring...
1706
John M
jami_kes
Jan 4, 2009 9:45 pm
. David, we are looing at things with different eyes (vocabularies), I misread you because I had numerous discussions with 'bifurcants' and viewers of static...
1707
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 12:19 am
Kurt, A simple question? How do you know the world is complex? Kepler, Newton, Copernicus, thought the world simple. It was this very belief that the world...
1708
Steven E. Wallis
stevenewallis
Jan 7, 2009 1:35 am
Jon, Ahhh.. a simple question. So many that I've wanted to respond to - but too complex for the time I have available ;-) I personally like the idea of...
1709
shumate
shumatedeborah
Jan 7, 2009 5:14 am
Eileen, you successfully wrote into complex-M. It is an interesting place that has been around for many, many years. Quite frankly, I don't even know if a...
1710
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 5:14 am
Ken, Good to see you've come out of hiding, or lurking. I very much enjoyed your paper and will re-read it after the holidays. I think this topic has...
1711
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 5:14 am
Deborah, One more brief comment, or two. I don't think you can explore or think or communicate without absolutes. Also, the reason to look at the 16th and 17th...
1712
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 5:14 am
Ken, John, and all, Just a simple once over for now, as I'm traveling and pretty well exhausted a this hour. I pretty much agree with Ken''s comments and look...
1713
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 5:14 am
Hi Debora, I haven't been by a computer for several days. And I just have a moment now. I'll try to give a more complete answer tomorrow. Yes, it's very hard...
1714
Ken Baskin
baskinman47
Jan 7, 2009 4:14 pm
Jon, One of the points I tried to make in the paper (I think) is that complexity science and Chinese philosophy come out of entirely different...
1715
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 9:01 pm
Thanks for your thoughts Ken. To the idea that Taoism and Complexity are systems of thought that transcend cultural boundaries, and therefore represent...
1716
John M
jami_kes
Jan 7, 2009 9:48 pm
David, I apologize for misreading you. I had long standing discussions about bifurcation and "saw read". Stable, however, looks ambiguous by:Â 'to turn...
1717
John M
jami_kes
Jan 7, 2009 9:49 pm
Jon, I was accused once already to be a 'Hegelian'. I never read Hegel and do not believe he arrived at a fundamentally agnostic position towards our...
1718
Jon Bennett
jonsork
Jan 7, 2009 10:56 pm
Hi John, I didn't say your approach was identical, but similar to Hegel in seeking a total view. You really should read Hegel. You would find out where many of...
1719
shumate
shumatedeborah
Jan 8, 2009 3:50 am
I loved the below:)...
1720
Ken Baskin
baskinman47
Jan 8, 2009 2:49 pm
Hi All You List Members! Please permit me to restate Jon's points from my own, perhaps very different, perspective. For me, complexity thinking suggests that...
1721
mmbtupr@...
Jan 8, 2009 3:20 pm
from Lewis L. Smith The question of whether or not the universe is complex basically reduces to a matter of definitions and to the availability of...
1722
John M
jami_kes
Jan 8, 2009 4:59 pm
Jon, thanks for the advice. I don't start a backwards study to re-adjust my thoughts, I don't claim originality - maybe someone in the ages of a poorer...
1723
Ken Baskin
baskinman47
Jan 8, 2009 5:44 pm
Lewis and Jon, I think the difficulty is in the question. It is impossible for our poor pea-brains to "know" whether the universe is complex or not. As Jon has...
1724
Jerry Zhu
jerryyz
Jan 10, 2009 5:53 am
Hi Kurt, Â You mentioned emergent structure that bothers me all the time. Â What is emergent strucuture? any reference? Â thanks Jerry Hi Kurt, You...
1725
mmbtupr@...
Jan 10, 2009 12:12 pm
from Lewis L. Smith An "emergent structure" could be considered a type of "emergent property". Unfortunately there does not seem to be any general...
1726
Jerry Zhu
jerryyz
Jan 10, 2009 5:34 pm
Lewis, Based on what you said, emergent structure is a property observable to our sense organs and that is not reducible to the system's constinuents. You made...
1727
Ken Baskin
baskinman47
Jan 10, 2009 6:30 pm
Jerry, To understand emergent structures, it helps to think in terms of specifics. How, for instance, did the eye evolve? Of course, we can't "know" for sure....
1728
Jerry Zhu
jerryyz
Jan 10, 2009 7:56 pm
Ken, Â You mentioned two things. Â Manifestation of second law in complex systems of increasing complexity, the tendencies. Â Opennesss in complex systems....
1729
mmbtupr@...
Jan 10, 2009 8:14 pm
from Lewis L. Smith My answers to Jerry's three questions : [1] I am not familiar with Senge's work. Many emergent properties are observable by...
