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Re: Avestan and Vedic

--- In IndiaArchaeology@yahoogroups.com, Ram Varmha <varmha@...> wrote:
>
> Avestan and Vedic are obviously twin languages. Notice the
similarity from Avesta to Sanskrit in the sample below:
>
>
> tem amavantem yazatem
> surem damohu seviytem
> mithrem yazai zaothrabyo
>
>
>
> 'Mithra that strong mighty angel, most beneficent to all
creatures, I will worship with libations'.
>
> Becomes when rendered word for word in Sanskrit:
>
>
> tam amavantam yajatam
> yuram dhamasu yavistham
> mitram yajai hotrabhyah
>


This is "trick" linguistics, used often to "prove" languages are
related.

If the sample given above could be generalized to both languages, then
they would simply be dialects of one another. However, it is suggested
that their is signficant distance between the two. For example, here
is the classification found in Ethnologue:



Indo-Iranian - Indo-Aryan
|
Iranian


Indo-Aryan - Sanskrit

Iranian - Eastern Iranian - Northeastern Iranian - Avestan


Notice that Avestan is four splits down from Indo-Iranian. The same
classification suggests only three splits from English to
Proto-Indo-European.


>
>
> If that be the case, will it not be logical to assume that their
'parent' language may have been more akin to Vedic than Avestan; in
other words, is Avestan later than Vedic?
>
>

It's irrelevant if one accepts the commonly-given linguistic genealogies.

However, Vedic literature by most estimates is considered older than
Avestan literature in most cases by 500 to 1000 years.

The dating of both is highly speculative as the extant sources do not
date back before medieval times.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Quests of the Dragon and Bird Clan
http://sambali.blogspot.com/




Mon Jan 8, 2007 7:08 pm

pinatubo.geo
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Avestan and Vedic are obviously twin languages. Notice the similarity from Avesta to Sanskrit in the sample below: tem amavantem yazatem surem damohu seviytem ...
Ram Varmha
varmha
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Jan 8, 2007
6:25 pm

... creatures, I will worship with libations'. ... This is "trick" linguistics, used often to "prove" languages are related. If the sample given above could be...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 8, 2007
10:51 pm

Attached below is a link to Avestan dictionary. Even those with a nodding acquaintance with Vedic/Sanskrit can find a significant list of word-cognates between...
Ram Varmha
varmha
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Jan 9, 2007
8:26 pm

... nodding acquaintance with Vedic/Sanskrit can find a significant list of word-cognates between Avesta and Vedic/ Sanskrit; some words being exactly the same...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 9, 2007
11:16 pm

What are the basic grammatical differences between Avesta and Vedic? The best one I could find on the web is the following: ...
Ram Varmha
varmha
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Jan 11, 2007
8:14 pm

... For info on Old Avestan: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/aveol-TC-R.html Regards, Paul Kekai Manansala Quests of the Dragon and Bird Clan ...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 12, 2007
6:32 am

Here is an "old" text on Avesta grammar and comparison with Sanskrit. http://www.avesta.org/kanga/grammar_opf_files/ Ram ... For info on Old Avestan: ...
Ram Varmha
varmha
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Jan 13, 2007
11:39 pm

Not entirely on topic, but in some parts of Rajasthan (limited to what I know of), replacing S with H is prevalent even today! -- jaju...
Ravindra Jaju
ravindrajaju
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Jan 9, 2007
8:26 pm

I have noticed this in assamese also. I dont know if its possible to designate vedic as being older than avestan based on one trait. vedic may prserve some...
munnubanerjee
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Jan 13, 2007
11:43 pm

... There are quite a few IE-ists who claim that the center is more innovative than the periphery. You will find such claims in the cybalist (on Yahoo groups)....
raonath
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Jan 14, 2007
1:56 am

Similarly, Mittani Indo-Aryan language is considered older than Vedic or Avestan because it has aika instead of eka. Vedic is supposed to have merged 'ai' to...
ayachitman
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Jan 15, 2007
5:18 am

... Seems like a pretty standard approach in proving one's point in such (may I call it) speculative science fields. Unlike pure sciences, deviations can be...
Ravindra Jaju
ravindrajaju
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Jan 15, 2007
7:27 pm

... That vowel merger is an the gypsey language behaves in an opposite manner) which is itself based on another dubious theory of reconstructing laryngeals...
mkelkar2003
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Jan 15, 2007
7:27 pm

... My belief based on discussion on the old ANE list is that no Mitanni or Near East specialists believe in 'Mitanni Aryan' anymore. It's mainly...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 15, 2007
7:31 pm

Minor mittani aryan presence among majority hurrian speaking must have been blown out of proportion by IEists. But that does not mean we have to swing the oher...
munnubanerjee
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Jan 17, 2007
3:47 am

... I don't agree. There never was really any argument for an "Aryan" presence in Mitanni. The linguistic evidence was always very weak, but the conjecture...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 18, 2007
12:43 am

... The linguistic evidence for Mitanni Indo-Aryan -- i.e., an Old Indo- Aryan language spoken by a section, no matter how small that was, of the population of...
Francesco Brighenti
frabrig
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Jan 19, 2007
6:38 am

... This is not a "conjecture" -- check ... Indeed it is only conjecture. The Mitanni literature itself makes no mention of "Aryans" and as I've stated,...
Paul Kekai Manansala
pinatubo.geo
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Jan 19, 2007
7:31 pm

... I do not know what "widely accepted scholarly paradigm" is being referred to here. Horses were introduced to the near east by Hurrians not the Mittani and...
mkelkar2003
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Jan 21, 2007
12:24 am

... Did I hold that Indo-Aryan speakers living in the Kingdom of Mitanni *introduced* horses in Syria/N. Mesopotamia? I confined myself to saying that "there...
Francesco Brighenti
frabrig
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Jan 22, 2007
1:06 am

... Speaking of Mittani "Indo-Aryans": They have closer connection with Pakistan/India than to a presumed non demonstrable connection with Central Asia. Check...
mkelkar2003
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Jan 23, 2007
5:08 am

... The connection of the Mitanni-IA linguistic element with Central Asia (more exactly, with the BMAC area in the centuries after the decline of that culture...
Francesco Brighenti
frabrig
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Jan 23, 2007
6:40 pm

... That is exactly what I mean. It is a *presumed* relation based on linguistic reconstrcution and a hypothetical group of "Indo-Iranians" that no one can...
mkelkar2003
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Jan 24, 2007
9:55 pm

... "Mitanni Indo-Aryans' expertise as charioteers and horse trainers ... You are holding that Mitanni "Indo-Aryans' expertise as charioteers was no doubt...
mkelkar2003
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Jan 23, 2007
5:09 am

Commenting on some discussion on the time frame of RV and Avesta, Rajesh Kochchar writes http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/?p=2249#comment-94190 While...
JK
tiptronicus
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Jan 24, 2007
10:04 pm
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