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False Colour IR problems   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #11962 of 13056 |
Re: [Infrared_Photography] False Colour IR problems

Sorry. I shot those images with monochrome picture style. However I do
all of my editing in PhotoShop. ACR ignores picture style and reads
the RAW file and presents the colours actually present.

The W70 has a 100% cutoff at 640nm. Most filter manufacturers seem to
use a 50% number as near as I can tell.

All the images I put up were shot in manual mode.

Are you talking about Luminance for the histogram? I tend to watch the
RGB histograms in IR because the Red channel will blow out first.

I have some images which wre not shot in Monochrome picture style. I
am planning to visit a mountain park with a large lake tomorrow. It
should be a good test target. However, pine forests do not reflect IR
very well like deciduous leaves do.

Don

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Jim Kramer<jim@...> wrote:
>
>
> Don - are you using a picture style or something (like for instance
> "B&W")? The W70 RAW file is in B&W. My understanding is that a W70
> filter has a cutoff of about 680nm... if this is the case, there should
> be color in the RAW file.
>
> If you would, could you shoot a new RAW file using MANUAL mode on your
> camera? Start with a setting of 1/250th, f/8, iso100. Adjust the
> exposure manually from there, until the histogram is between centered,
> and just right of centered.
>
> -Jim
> Check Out My Infrared Galleries!
> <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries>
>
> D Marcotte wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Jim Kramer <jim@...
>> <mailto:jim%40jim-kramer.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > that works - send me the link, and I'll D/L. You didn't answer the
>> > question regarding a custom WB - have you tried that?
>>
>> Last question first. I have used custom WBs. I created them using a
>> gray card and got a B+W image. I am not sure how that helps with false
>> colour unless I colourize it which kind of defeats the purpose, i.e.,
>> removing then adding colour.
>>
>> I am curious as to what you get if you use a custom WB. How did you
>> create the custom WB?
>>
>> You can download one or more of the 3 images here:
>>
>> <http://www.bydawnlight.com/shared/False%20Colour%20IR/
>> <http://www.bydawnlight.com/shared/False%20Colour%20IR/>>
>>
>> The name tells you which filter was used.
>>
>> When I use a daylight WB, my images always have red in them because
>> that is where the majority of the IR photons get stored. nI could play
>> with that by using the Tungsten WB I suppose.
>>
>> Have fun!
>>
>> Don
>> >
>> > -Jim
>> > Check Out My Infrared Galleries!
>> > <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries
>> <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries>>
>> >
>> > D Marcotte wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > My images are always reddish. If I use an enhanced colour filter
>> > > similar to what Life Pixel installs (a Wratten 70 in my case), it is
>> > > very red. If I use an R72, it is still quite red. A 760nm or 850nm
>> > > filter deliver more washed out reds with a hint of magenta.
>> > >
>> > > Since the files are 15MB RAWs, I can't email them to you. But I can
>> > > put an example or two up on one of my web sites that allows
>> > > downloading. I have lots to choose from <G>.
>> > >
>> > > Don
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Jim Kramer<jim@...
>> <mailto:jim%40jim-kramer.com>
>> > > <mailto:jim%40jim-kramer.com>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Don - sorry about the confusion... I thought the link you posted
>> was one
>> > > > of your images. It would be helpful if you could shoot a test
>> RAW file,
>> > > > and e-mail it to me. I'd like to see your image for myself. If
>> you shoot
>> > > > a test image, try to do a landscape with some sky, grass, and a few
>> > > trees.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks!
>> > > >
>> > > > -Jim
>> > > > Check Out My Infrared Galleries!
>> > > > <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries
>> <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries>
>> > > <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries
>> <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries>>>
>> > > >
>> > > > D Marcotte wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> For several years now I have had little luck creating false
>> colour IR
>> > > >> images. A fellow camera club member with an IR modified Nikon
>> D70 is
>> > > >> getting good results using the red-blue channel swap. It have never
>> > > >> worked well for me because the Auto Color function in CS4 and
>> earlier
>> > > >> versions doesn't change colours which become input to the red-blue
>> > > >> channel swap.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> None of the following cameras have delivered good results -
>> D100 with
>> > > >> R72 installed; D200 with clear glass and 88A, 87 and Wratten 70 and
>> > > >> Red 29 filters; 40D with clear glass and the same set of
>> filters; new
>> > > >> XSi with clear glass and most of the same set of filters plus 760nm
>> > > >> and 850nm filters.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> All I get when I do Auto Color is a slight adjustment to the
>> reddish
>> > > >> image. When I do the channel swap, it becomes an intense blue
>> image.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> This is one of the techniques I have tried. It was what my
>> camera club
>> > > >> friend uses. He was a little skeptical so I sent him one of my
>> images
>> > > >> and he became a believer!
>> > > >>
>> > > >> http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676
>> <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676>
>> > > <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676
>> <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676>>
>> > > >> <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676
>> <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676>
>> > > <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676
>> <http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/image/55664676>>>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I think I have some others stashed away somewhere. I tried the
>> > > >> Kromagery action without any success.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Any suggestions for editing processes would be appreciated.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Don
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:57 am

dmarcot
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Forward
Message #11962 of 13056 |
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For several years now I have had little luck creating false colour IR images. A fellow camera club member with an IR modified Nikon D70 is getting good results...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 14, 2009
8:06 pm

that image is REALLY red. Have you tried creating a cusom WB in camera by shooting sunlit grass through your filter? also, Auto Color is not the same thing as...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
8:47 pm

Don - sorry about the confusion... I thought the link you posted was one of your images. It would be helpful if you could shoot a test RAW file, and e-mail it...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2009
8:51 pm

My images are always reddish. If I use an enhanced colour filter similar to what Life Pixel installs (a Wratten 70 in my case), it is very red. If I use an...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 14, 2009
9:08 pm

that works - send me the link, and I'll D/L. You didn't answer the question regarding a custom WB - have you tried that? -Jim Check Out My Infrared Galleries! ...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
9:14 pm

... Last question first. I have used custom WBs. I created them using a gray card and got a B+W image. I am not sure how that helps with false colour unless I...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 14, 2009
10:29 pm

you do not want to use a gray card to create a custom white balance. Normally you would shoot a custom white balance on a white object. However, with infrared,...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
11:18 pm

I'm downloading now - but I'm only getting 56kbp/S throughput - so it's going to take a while! -Jim Check Out My Infrared Galleries! ...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
11:31 pm

I forgot to answer your question - if you are shooting Canon equipment, you should be able to create a custom WB in the camera. If you tell me what camera...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
11:34 pm

Don - are you using a picture style or something (like for instance "B&W")? The W70 RAW file is in B&W. My understanding is that a W70 filter has a cutoff of...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2009
11:36 pm

Sorry. I shot those images with monochrome picture style. However I do all of my editing in PhotoShop. ACR ignores picture style and reads the RAW file and...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 15, 2009
2:58 am

R72 file looks exactly the same - no color. -Jim Check Out My Infrared Galleries! <http://www.pbase.com/jwkramer61/infrared_galleries> ... [Non-text portions...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
11:38 pm

maybe this will help a little: if you are NOT shooting with a custom WB, and using a R72 (720nm) filter on a CONVERTED camera, your RAW file should look...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 14, 2009
11:48 pm

... I hope you don't mind, but I've processed these and put up a temporary gallery at http://khromagery.com.au/samples/marcotte1 Jim mentioned the RAW files...
David Burren
david_burren
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Jul 15, 2009
12:27 am

I figured that out... I had to update my Adobe Camera Raw so I could open them directly in Photoshop. -Jim Check Out My Infrared Galleries! ...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 15, 2009
12:45 am

OK, first of all I don't mind you processing them. It is helpful to see what can be done. I tried your False Colours action with the original images and that ...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 15, 2009
5:39 am

... Yup. Just setting a semi-decent WB to separate some of the colours will let the action do its job. ... Well, actually in both cases you should use...
David Burren
david_burren
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Jul 15, 2009
11:14 am

... Photo Life, a Canadian photographic magazine. Oops - I just remembered it was Peter Burren. I will test both a green grass and a gray card today while...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 15, 2009
4:27 pm

Hi Don, I don't know if this answers your question or not but to do custom WB for IR I take it on the green grass. Every digital DSLR might have a slightly...
terri pakula
terrilynn11557
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Jul 15, 2009
11:46 am

... I will try it out today. The sun is shining brightly and I am heading off to a park set in forested mountains about 25 miles away. It has a large lake and...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 15, 2009
4:34 pm

ok... I finally got around the "B&W Picture Style" you had set (thanks David)... I set a custom WB after the fact using Breeze Browser Pro, so these images are...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 15, 2009
1:08 am

Thanks Jim. I appreciate your help. I will try what you suggest and also do some messing around myself. It is a lousy time of year for astro imaging anyway...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 15, 2009
5:46 am

Have you tried adding a Curves layer then clicking the "Auto" button? I found that took much of the color cast off the IR image and then Auto Color would...
audiotweak
Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2009
9:14 pm

... No I haven't. I normally convert to B+W and only lately have tried false colour IR. There are many ways to remove a colour cast including plain old...
D Marcotte
dmarcot
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Jul 14, 2009
10:38 pm

... My personal suggestion would be; since you tried auto WB and on a grey card, try to set a WB on the grass, follow your manual for your specific way to do,...
lucky9_b
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Jul 15, 2009
12:40 am

Did you try using Auto Levels? It seems to create a bit of color separating for your particular jpg. Lars ... -- Regards, Lars Michael -- ...
Lars Michael
lmichaelphoto
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Jul 15, 2009
12:17 am

I have looked at his RAW files. They are monochrome. All the post processing tricks in the world can't produce false color from a mono RAW file... I suspect he...
Jim Kramer
jwkramer61
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Jul 15, 2009
12:24 am
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