Monthly Reminder, please read:

Messages and threads:
   Please do NOT start a new thread by replying to another message. Even if you
change the subject line completely and trim all the original messages off, there
is information in the hidden header that Yahoogroups detects and then lists it
as if it were part of that thread.
   To start a new thread, start a new message to the list address.
Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com

On Topic vs off topic:
    The list is meant to be quite specific to the subject of inkjet printing
resist directly onto copper for acid etching. However, within that is a very
broad area covering modification of existing printers, printhead/printer
selection, ink selection, design and construction of flatbed plotters, proper
drive to inkjet printheads, firmware, software, baking/post-processing of
resist, suitable acids/temperatures, etc. So I ask that any questions or
comments whose purpose is not strictly on topic to take place off the list or on
another more suitable list.
    General electronics questions not related to the above should go to the
Electronics_101 list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101
    For other topics about making printed circuit boards such as toner transfer,
photosensitive boards, scratch 'n etch, etc. please join the Homebrew_PCBs list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

Subject lines:
    Remember to change the subject line if you are straying from the original
thread. Please change the subject line if you are on digest, as "Digest 1044"
means nothing to anyone. If you are on digest, I suggest changing yourself to
"new and improved" so you can more easily reply to individual messages.
    If you want an answer to a question, use a descriptive subject line. "Help
Me" is bad subject line. "Will my Canon BJC 3000 work?" is a better subject
line.
    Subject lines affect whether or not people even read your message, and affect
people searching the archives for help at a later date.

Trim messages- especially if you are receiving messages in digest form. By the
same token, quote enough so we know what you are responding to. "Yeah, I agree"
means nothing if no one knows who you are answering or what you are agreeing
with. And it is just irritating if it is added to an untrimmed huge long quoted
message(s).

Uploading files and photos:
  Please use the Description field. Think of a future member finding this, and
put enough description so they'll know why it is on the Homebrew_PCBs list out
of context of any messages you may have posted about it. Examples: "Test with HP
pigmented black ink #15 cartridge baked at 240F for 5 minutes" is good, "My
latest project" is bad. I may at any time delete files and photos with
insufficient description.

Remember to check the Links and Files if you have questions, you may find the
answer there already. Don't be shy about asking, but keep in mind people are
more likely to be helpful if they feel you've done some homework before asking.
"What is a printed circuit board?" shows you didn't even try, but "I have an HP
inkjet printer, will its black printheads work for resist printing?" shows you
have put some effort in first.

Do not send "unsubscribe" messages to the list. Either send an email to
"Inkjet_PCB_Construction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com" or log onto your groups at
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups to edit your groups. If you are unable to
unsubscribe following these instructions, email the listowner at
Inkjet_PCB_Construction-owner@yahoogroups.com.

Please do -not- post virus warnings. This has been hashed to death on this list
and others. If we want to hear about soccer, we'll sign up on a soccer list, if
we want to hear about virii we'll sign up on a virus list. Sports, religion, and
politics are OFF TOPIC for the list, feelings run high and it is too easy for a
passing comment to flare up into a flame war.

Suggestions, recommendations and such, to and from professionals and companies
are welcome. If you are posting for your own business, please limit ads to once
a month and feel free to post your site in the Links area. Company
representatives are encouraged to respond to legit requests for information as
long as you identify your connection. IE, don't pretend to be an unconnected
customer, there are enough savvy people here that you'll be found out quickly.
Just use common sense about replying or people might think you are flogging your
business.

Spam- Spammers will be treated with all the respect they deserve. Off Topic sale
ads, links, uploads, etc. will be treated as spam and may result in your removal
from the list and banning from every other list I am listowner or moderator of.


Thank you,
Steve Greenfield
listowner Homebrew_PCBs, Inkjet_PCB_Construction, and Electronics_101

I've done my first batch of tests.

It looks as if beading-up of the toner might be a problem. I've seen
some suggestions, like leaving some soap on the surface, but the
acid wash test I did was a total bust.

Any suggestions on ink beading up on the PCB? Has anyone tried Mr.
Clean magic erasers?

Also, I've been VERY impressed with the toner adhesion to the copper.
Really nice. However, I'm a little concerned about the excess. Should
this be blown off with an air gun, or is there a better way? My first
samples have a thin film of toner clinging to much of the PCB - unless
I wipe it off with my finger.

Thanks.

Calvin,
I use a can of compressed air to blow off the residual toner. I usually let
the inkjet ink and toner dry first and maybe give it a little heat from a
hair dryer. It is surprising how much airpressure is needed to clean off the
fine toner sticking to the unprinted parts of the pcb.

I just, clean the copper with a 3M scrubbie qand a bit of Comet or AJAX
cleaner and rinse well inhott water. Then do a final rinse with either
acetone or 91% isopronanol (rubbing alcohol). You can find the 91% in
pharmacies or drug stores. Keep the bottle tightly closed when not in use,
as it absorbs wqter from the air.Regular rubbing alcohol is only 70% and the
rest is water.

I was originally concerned about beading when doing the solder mask, but
found that the paint powder tends to level it all out.

Myc


On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:35 AM, calvingrier <ckgrier2@...> wrote:

>   I've done my first batch of tests.
>
> It looks as if beading-up of the toner might be a problem. I've seen
> some suggestions, like leaving some soap on the surface, but the
> acid wash test I did was a total bust.
>
> Any suggestions on ink beading up on the PCB? Has anyone tried Mr.
> Clean magic erasers?
>
> Also, I've been VERY impressed with the toner adhesion to the copper.
> Really nice. However, I'm a little concerned about the excess. Should
> this be blown off with an air gun, or is there a better way? My first
> samples have a thin film of toner clinging to much of the PCB - unless
> I wipe it off with my finger.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi
I just discovered this group some days ago and spend a lot of time
reading an learning. Thanks to the community, all of this looks like
a gold mine to me.
But…
But, after digging the "file" folder, after seeking threads and
sieving "keywords", I'm still unable to find the original "inkjet
print & toner dusting" method.

Can someone give me the message number of this explanation?

Disapointed with the "laser toner" method, I remember having an old
Epson Stylus Photo 830. Did a group member tried to use this gear to
print some pcb ? Could it work or should I let the dust on the cover ?

Many thanks

Marc

I'm unclear on some things you are saying.

Toner is beading up? Did you mean ink?

So you are testing the toner onto inkjet method? Are you using stock Epson inks?

Steve Greenfield

________________________________
From: calvingrier <ckgrier2@...>

I've done my first batch of tests.

It looks as if beading-up of the toner might be a problem. I've seen
some suggestions, like leaving some soap on the surface, but the
acid wash test I did was a total bust.

Any suggestions on ink beading up on the PCB? Has anyone tried Mr.
Clean magic erasers?

Also, I've been VERY impressed with the toner adhesion to the copper.
Really nice. However, I'm a little concerned about the excess. Should
this be blown off with an air gun, or is there a better way? My first
samples have a thin film of toner clinging to much of the PCB - unless
I wipe it off with my finger.

Thanks.

Think I did the first post on toner dusting. I read about it on an Australian
CNC group, not my idea. I tried it and it worked pretty well. So I added a note
about it in a post. Think Mike Holmes has taken it from there.

As to removing the excess toner, I use about 30 psi air. Haven't tried it but
think the exhaust from a shop-vac might work if you don't have an air
compressor. Any physical contact with the board would likely smear the wet
toner.

To be honest, I still use toner transfer for the majority of my boards. It is
more simple. I use toner dusting if I am making a number of the same board,
since inkjet printing gives a board accurate enough to be drilled with a CNC
machine.

If you are having problems with toner xfer, buy a laminator. I get very good
consistency using a laminator. It takes the guess work out of pressure and
temperature, that you can't get with a steam iron.

a link to a decent laminator.
http://www.pulsarprofx.com/PCB/a_Pages/4_Products/4d_Toner_Applicator/Toner_Appl\
icator.html<http://www.pulsarprofx.com/PCB/a_Pages/4_Products/4d_Toner_Applicato\
r/Toner_Applicator.html>

Use Hammermill Laser Gloss paper, best I have found, and low price. The green
and white films the above company sell are just not necessary.

RD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hacked an R280 using Richards instructions.  Everything went
peachy.  However, I am unable to print using 0.050 in. matboard with
the notch cut as described.  Without paper at the feed rollers, the
print head moves over a quarter of an inch twice and the rollers spin
and then both leds light and flash.  With matboard pressed against
the feed, when the printer is turned on, it feeds the matt in 3
inches or so, then moves it back and forth.  The print head moves
slowly one half inch and returns.  It never comes across the edge of
the paper or looks at the front.  All of this is before there has
been any print command sent to the printer.
      I assume the printer draws the paper to the start position and
then waits for a print order.  I used the printer before hacking it,
so I know it works(ed).  I never noticed where the paper was in the
ready state
      I'm sure it's something small, but I can't find it.  I thought I
remembered a message along these lines, but have not found it.  Help!
      I using my printer to test a fine arts concept and need the
largest size available.  The final media is a zinc plate 0.065 in.
thick.  I also tried just stiff paper, with the same results.

Phil Dorothy

Phil,

The mat board shouldn't feed until there is something sent to the printer. I
generally send the art to the printer and let it default, like the paper tray is
empty. The lights you indicate come on, to tell that there is no paper. Then
push the matt board against the in feed rolls and press the restart button.

When you first turn the printer on it does do the little dance you indicate.
After it initializes then you can send the art to the printer, and proceed as
above. During initializing it shouldn't feed paper. It only feeds when it has a
print job.

The only other thing I can think of is that there is some stuff left in the
print queue.

RD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RICHARD HEILIGER wrote:
> Phil,
>
> The mat board shouldn't feed until there is something sent to the printer. I
generally send the art to the printer and let it default, like the paper tray is
empty. The lights you indicate come on, to tell that there is no paper. Then
push the matt board against the in feed rolls and press the restart button.
>
> When you first turn the printer on it does do the little dance you indicate.
After it initializes then you can send the art to the printer, and proceed as
above. During initializing it shouldn't feed paper. It only feeds when it has a
print job.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is that there is some stuff left in the
print queue.
>
> RD
>
RD,
     Yes, the print head dances and then both the "paper out" and "ink
out" lights flash together.  According to the manual, this indicates
....."Paper may be blocking movement of the print head...............if
this continues, contact Epson and confess to butchering their machine."
If I send a print job anyway, I get a "general error" message on the
computer screen.  This double flashing has occurred from the first start
up and happens each time, whether there is a file pending or not.  The
machine is clean.  I did all alterations away from the machine and cut
the rear plastic with a hot wire to avoid swarf.

PD

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, Steve Greenfield
<alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> I'm unclear on some things you are saying.
>
> Toner is beading up? Did you mean ink?
>
> So you are testing the toner onto inkjet method? Are you using stock
Epson inks?


I'm using Stock Ink. I have not done a second set of tests, but the
first boards did seem to have ink that would bead up.

It appears that getting ALL of the toner dust cleared away is my
primary problem now.

Cal,
It takes a lot more air pressure than you might think to remove the"loose"
toner. Thei "loose
|" toner is electrostaticly bonded to the copper.

I use one of those compressed air in a can dusters. You have to find a
balnace bteween removing the loose toner and the adhered toner. It dos help
to let the inkjet ink./ toner dry first.

Myc Holmes




On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:07 AM, calvingrier <ckgrier2@...> wrote:

>   --- In
Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com<Inkjet_PCB_Construction%40yahoogroups.co\
m>,
> Steve Greenfield
> <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm unclear on some things you are saying.
> >
> > Toner is beading up? Did you mean ink?
> >
> > So you are testing the toner onto inkjet method? Are you using stock
> Epson inks?
>
> I'm using Stock Ink. I have not done a second set of tests, but the
> first boards did seem to have ink that would bead up.
>
> It appears that getting ALL of the toner dust cleared away is my
> primary problem now.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a tiny lever just before the feed rolls on the carriage drive side that
pokes up thru the plastic, this lever operates a switch that tells the printer
that the paper has entered the printer. Check to see if the lever is there and
has not been broken, or held down by your new in feed tray. Be sure the new
paper path is such that the notch cut in the mat board trips this switch. Think
the time between when this switch is tripped and the paper sensor in the print
head sees the notch is critical.

I also assume you have taped down the lid switch, don't think it will run at all
if not.

At the end of the head height adjust shaft there is a disk with notches in it
that runs thru a photo eye. This eye tells the printer what height the head is
at, I would check to be sure the photo eye is still in place as well.

If you look back thru the old posts there are a couple places to get a manual
for this printer, that may give some insight as to the nature of your problem.

RD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Monthly Reminder, please read:

Messages and threads:
   Please do NOT start a new thread by replying to another message. Even if you
change the subject line completely and trim all the original messages off, there
is information in the hidden header that Yahoogroups detects and then lists it
as if it were part of that thread.
   To start a new thread, start a new message to the list address.
Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com

On Topic vs off topic:
    The list is meant to be quite specific to the subject of inkjet printing
resist directly onto copper for acid etching. However, within that is a very
broad area covering modification of existing printers, printhead/printer
selection, ink selection, design and construction of flatbed plotters, proper
drive to inkjet printheads, firmware, software, baking/post-processing of
resist, suitable acids/temperatures, etc. So I ask that any questions or
comments whose purpose is not strictly on topic to take place off the list or on
another more suitable list.
    General electronics questions not related to the above should go to the
Electronics_101 list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101
    For other topics about making printed circuit boards such as toner transfer,
photosensitive boards, scratch 'n etch, etc. please join the Homebrew_PCBs list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

Subject lines:
    Remember to change the subject line if you are straying from the original
thread. Please change the subject line if you are on digest, as "Digest 1044"
means nothing to anyone. If you are on digest, I suggest changing yourself to
"new and improved" so you can more easily reply to individual messages.
    If you want an answer to a question, use a descriptive subject line. "Help
Me" is bad subject line. "Will my Canon BJC 3000 work?" is a better subject
line.
    Subject lines affect whether or not people even read your message, and affect
people searching the archives for help at a later date.

Trim messages- especially if you are receiving messages in digest form. By the
same token, quote enough so we know what you are responding to. "Yeah, I agree"
means nothing if no one knows who you are answering or what you are agreeing
with. And it is just irritating if it is added to an untrimmed huge long quoted
message(s).

Uploading files and photos:
  Please use the Description field. Think of a future member finding this, and
put enough description so they'll know why it is on the Homebrew_PCBs list out
of context of any messages you may have posted about it. Examples: "Test with HP
pigmented black ink #15 cartridge baked at 240F for 5 minutes" is good, "My
latest project" is bad. I may at any time delete files and photos with
insufficient description.

Remember to check the Links and Files if you have questions, you may find the
answer there already. Don't be shy about asking, but keep in mind people are
more likely to be helpful if they feel you've done some homework before asking.
"What is a printed circuit board?" shows you didn't even try, but "I have an HP
inkjet printer, will its black printheads work for resist printing?" shows you
have put some effort in first.

Do not send "unsubscribe" messages to the list. Either send an email to
"Inkjet_PCB_Construction-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com" or log onto your groups at
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups to edit your groups. If you are unable to
unsubscribe following these instructions, email the listowner at
Inkjet_PCB_Construction-owner@yahoogroups.com.

Please do -not- post virus warnings. This has been hashed to death on this list
and others. If we want to hear about soccer, we'll sign up on a soccer list, if
we want to hear about virii we'll sign up on a virus list. Sports, religion, and
politics are OFF TOPIC for the list, feelings run high and it is too easy for a
passing comment to flare up into a flame war.

Suggestions, recommendations and such, to and from professionals and companies
are welcome. If you are posting for your own business, please limit ads to once
a month and feel free to post your site in the Links area. Company
representatives are encouraged to respond to legit requests for information as
long as you identify your connection. IE, don't pretend to be an unconnected
customer, there are enough savvy people here that you'll be found out quickly.
Just use common sense about replying or people might think you are flogging your
business.

Spam- Spammers will be treated with all the respect they deserve. Off Topic sale
ads, links, uploads, etc. will be treated as spam and may result in your removal
from the list and banning from every other list I am listowner or moderator of.


Thank you,
Steve Greenfield
listowner Homebrew_PCBs, Inkjet_PCB_Construction, and Electronics_101

I have just started to modify an Epson T20 for PCB printing. I have
posted some pics of my progress on CNCZone
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30951&page=55

I need some advice regarding the print quality and cleaning the head.
With the head raised the quality look terrible when printing on paper
and it looks like some of the nozzles are still blocked.

How are people modifying pressure rollers to allow the pcb to pass
through?

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year.

Scotta

Hi guys,

I got a printer here (hp 3535) and started to modify it to print PCBs
=).
It wasn't difficult for me to make the board pass through the
mecanics and stuff, and in the first day of modifications I manage to
print on the board. (maybe i can get some pictures of the mods, and
post here)
My doubts now are about the ink. I heard pigment ink is the solution
to etch resist. Is that right? I saw some websites that sell it, in
all colors. Are they all the same? I saw somewhere you guys printing
in magenta.

If someone can give me some directions.
Thanks,

Roger F. Dupont

I'm sorry to say, but you've probably wasted your printer.

You should first ask, what ink? Then consider which printer you can use with
that ink.

Most HP desktop printers use dye inks and can only use pigmented inks in the
black cartridge. Same for Canon.

Epsons, even the models that come with dye inks, can run pigmented inks in
pretty much any model.

Steve Greenfield


________________________________
From: rogerfdupont <rogerdupont@...>

Hi guys,

I got a printer here (hp 3535) and started to modify it to print PCBs
=).
It wasn't difficult for me to make the board pass through the
mecanics and stuff, and in the first day of modifications I manage to
print on the board. (maybe i can get some pictures of the mods, and
post here)
My doubts now are about the ink. I heard pigment ink is the solution
to etch resist. Is that right? I saw some websites that sell it, in
all colors. Are they all the same? I saw somewhere you guys printing
in magenta.

If someone can give me some directions.
Thanks,

Roger F. Dupont

Well sorry I didnt ask, but I  search with a distributor. He said I
can

use pigmented ink in my cartriges. Just have to refil then myself.
(Not such a problem)
I search over a distributor, a he said that I can use pigmented ink
I have already order it, so we will discover soon.

So let's suppose that I can use pigmented ink.

Pigmented ink is etch resistent? Wich one is better?
And if I could only use black pigmented ink? Black ink doesn't resist
etching?

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, Steve Greenfield
<alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry to say, but you've probably wasted your printer.
>
> You should first ask, what ink? Then consider which printer you can
use with that ink.
>
> Most HP desktop printers use dye inks and can only use pigmented
inks in the black cartridge. Same for Canon.
>
> Epsons, even the models that come with dye inks, can run pigmented
inks in pretty much any model.
>
> Steve Greenfield

If it works, that would be great! What distributor?

I don't know which color of your ink will work best. Of those who tested MIS PRO
inks and Epson's inks, magenta seems to work the best.

It isn't so much etch resistance, as it is water resistance, I think.

You'll have to do your own testing as to what time/temp to bake the ink before
etching.

Hm... MIS's website ( http://www.inksupply.com ) when I select HP Deskjet 3535
lists HP 5500 ink as their replacement. The HP 5500 can use pigment (what HP
calls "UV" inks) or dye inks, perhaps HP is using pigment capable heads in the
3535.

Steve Greenfield

________________________________
From: rogerfdupont <rogerdupont@...>
To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:44:30 AM
Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Starting With HP 3535 Modifications


Well sorry I didnt ask, but I  search with a distributor. He said I
can

use pigmented ink in my cartriges. Just have to refil then myself.
(Not such a problem)
I search over a distributor, a he said that I can use pigmented ink
I have already order it, so we will discover soon.

So let's suppose that I can use pigmented ink.

Pigmented ink is etch resistent? Wich one is better?
And if I could only use black pigmented ink? Black ink doesn't resist
etching?

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construc tion@yahoogroups .com, Steve Greenfield
<alienrelics@ ...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry to say, but you've probably wasted your printer.
>
> You should first ask, what ink? Then consider which printer you can
use with that ink.
>
> Most HP desktop printers use dye inks and can only use pigmented
inks in the black cartridge. Same for Canon.
>
> Epsons, even the models that come with dye inks, can run pigmented
inks in pretty much any model.
>
> Steve Greenfield

Since I'm from Brazil, the distributor site is in Portuguese.
www.inkprinter.com.br

I sent them an email, explaining I want to refil my original HP 28 cartige with
their pigmented ink. They said that there was no problem. I hope so!
And I had already seen those guys using magenta, so I'll try it first.

I just don't know much about baking the board affter printing. The ink itself
isn't
etch resitant, right? That's why it have to be baked?



  ---------------------------------------------
Em 28/01/2009 13:08, Steve Greenfield  escreveu:


If it works, that would be great! What distributor?

  I don't know which color of your ink will work best. Of those who tested MIS
PRO inks and Epson's inks, magenta seems to work the best.

  It isn't so much etch resistance, as it is water resistance, I think.

  You'll have to do your own testing as to what time/temp to bake the ink before
etching.

  Hm... MIS's website ( http://www.inksupply.com ) when I select HP Deskjet 3535
lists HP 5500 ink as their replacement. The HP 5500 can use pigment (what HP
calls "UV" inks) or dye inks, perhaps HP is using pigment capable heads in the
3535.

  Steve Greenfield

Hi, Roger

	 I have heard about a process where the ink composition does not
matter at all !! You drop laser toner over the board that was printed in the
inkjet, blow the excess tonner away with compressed air and pass the board
trough a laminator to melt the tonner. It seems very, very simple and by
what I remember the results where very good with 8 mil tracks ! As you
already have the printer modified it would be easy to test it.

	 Please do not forget to send pictures of your mods to the printer. I
am also in Brazil :-) And very eager to try the method.  As I already use
tonner transfer method I have the laminator at hand.

Best Regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes


-----Mensagem original-----
De: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de rogerfdupont
Enviada em: terça-feira, 27 de janeiro de 2009 09:23
Para: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Starting With HP 3535 Modifications

Hi guys,

I got a printer here (hp 3535) and started to modify it to print PCBs =).
It wasn't difficult for me to make the board pass through the mecanics and
stuff, and in the first day of modifications I manage to print on the board.
(maybe i can get some pictures of the mods, and post here) My doubts now are
about the ink. I heard pigment ink is the solution to etch resist. Is that
right? I saw some websites that sell it, in all colors. Are they all the
same? I saw somewhere you guys printing in magenta.

If someone can give me some directions.
Thanks,

Roger F. Dupont


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Roger.
I'm in Brazil too. I'm modding a Epson SC777. Just need the ink to made a first
test.
Me contacte por email depois.

Abraços
Diego




________________________________
De: "rogerdupont@..." <rogerdupont@...>
Para: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 28 de Janeiro de 2009 13:28:32
Assunto: Re: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Starting With HP 3535 Modifications


Since I'm from Brazil, the distributor site is in Portuguese.
www.inkprinter. com.br

I sent them an email, explaining I want to refil my original HP 28 cartige with
their pigmented ink. They said that there was no problem. I hope so!
And I had already seen those guys using magenta, so I'll try it first.

I just don't know much about baking the board affter printing. The ink itself
isn't
etch resitant, right? That's why it have to be baked?

------------ --------- --------- --------- ------
Em 28/01/2009 13:08, Steve Greenfield  escreveu:


If it works, that would be great! What distributor?

I don't know which color of your ink will work best. Of those who tested MIS PRO
inks and Epson's inks, magenta seems to work the best.

It isn't so much etch resistance, as it is water resistance, I think.

You'll have to do your own testing as to what time/temp to bake the ink before
etching.

Hm... MIS's website ( http://www.inksuppl y.com ) when I select HP Deskjet 3535
lists HP 5500 ink as their replacement. The HP 5500 can use pigment (what HP
calls "UV" inks) or dye inks, perhaps HP is using pigment capable heads in the
3535.

Steve Greenfield





       Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

'É bom saber que tem brasileiros aqui também.'
But I'll talk in english so that everyone can understand.

I took take some pics, and posted in the group's photo album, under Roger
Dupont.
And also made a movie  http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=QDCnqFoOyow

And Alexandre, I'll look for this toner method. But I'm more interested in
making a printer that does all the job. Just print and then just etch.
Let's see the tests result from the pigmented ink, then I'll post here.

Hi Roger,
A couple of thoughts:

The inkjet/toner method is called "Toner Dusting". It basically uses any
inkjet ink as a temporary adhesive for the toner, and the toner is then
fused.

If you are are considering an inkjet ink only resist, there is one very
critical step. The pigment ink must be properly cured.

There are many other "difficult" steps, like cleaning the copper and getting
the ink to completely and evenly wet-out the copper.

They all have been successfully overcome on a limited basis with a lot of
trial and error.

This is why the direct printing of resist has been called the Holy Grail.

Myc


On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <rogerdupont@...> wrote:

>   Hello,
>
> 'É bom saber que tem brasileiros aqui também.'
> But I'll talk in english so that everyone can understand.
>
> I took take some pics, and posted in the group's photo album, under Roger
> Dupont.
> And also made a movie http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=QDCnqFoOyow
>
> And Alexandre, I'll look for this toner method. But I'm more interested in
> making a printer that does all the job. Just print and then just etch.
> Let's see the tests result from the pigmented ink, then I'll post here.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello!!!


I have a good time using the method tone tranfer
and the practice has brought acceptable results.
but I have a problem the fact that I not having a
my proper laser printer.

By internet I know the process of printing directly
ink durabrite, pre heated the PCB and then coocking the ink.
I have no interest in  toner dusting,
because I tink that transfer toner is more cheaper.

I affiliated with this group to get information for
start the use of the direct printing
I have good knowledge of mechanics and electronics and many years
working
technical as I can make the mechanical changes in the printer
to choose without major difficulties.

My questions are 2 in particular:

I wonder if you already have confirmed cases of success
with the use of cartridges for HP printers with ink durabrite or
similar
I have prefered to use this  printer for many them here.

My second question is the fact of living in a litle city and have
hard to find ink durabrite,

I know the difficulties of producing high-quality ink
   the problems of quality and purity of water and materials involved
of special filters etc ...for Deskjet ink production

but I wonder if someone tried
use some type of pigment that allows the ink or do something similar
the ink at home made and that might produce similar results.
in view of cost and difficulty find durabrite ink.

someone who understands the inks materials could give some help.
I do not understand or know anything about inks the difference in dye
or pigment.
already I ruined several rounds of 600 series cartridge in
experiences with numerous inks.
but unfortunately my knowledge in inks is very few.

I call invoke the people with knowledge of chemical and inks
the Achilles' heel  of this process is the ink.
once resolved this.
this is the best way even in small scale for make PCBs.

[

  aos amigos que se comunicam em portugues por favor entrar em contato
em PVT caso houver interesse
   sou novato aqui em impressão direta mas se estiver ao meu alcance
estou a pronto para ajudar!
   pretendo/gostaria de  encontrar uma solução caseira para a tinta
durabrite mas isso depende de conhecimento muito avançado em quimica


]



  regards

  []´s
  hw

I have hear that Epson has the proper ink to print resist. I had 2 HP printer
(hp 3535, hp 3420) that were having some problem while printing, they were
chewing the paper. So I first got them for free.
I looked for pigmented ink for HP. And found some, but had NEVER TESTED. Never
heard of HP printers that could direct print either.
There are some guys here trying to make their own resistant ink at home. Maybe
that's a solution.
I'll make some tests with that ink I found and post here for later discussion.
I'll research for the possibility of using other ink, perhaps Epson inks in HP
cartriges. Anyone knows if something like that is possible?

The black heads in an HP use pigmented black. In fact, Encad printers use(d) all
HP black heads loaded with color pigmented inks.

So it may be possible to fill an HP black head with MIS PRO magenta ink and use
the "print as black" option in the driver.

It may be possible to use the color HP heads with MIS PRO pigmented, too. I'm
just saying that HP black definitely is pigmented and capable of using colors,
too.

Steve Greenfield

________________________________
From: "rogerdupont@..." rogerdupont@...


I have hear that Epson has the proper ink to print resist. I had 2 HP printer
(hp 3535, hp 3420) that were having some problem while printing, they were
chewing the paper. So I first got them for free.
I looked for pigmented ink for HP. And found some, but had NEVER TESTED. Never
heard of HP printers that could direct print either.
There are some guys here trying to make their own resistant ink at home. Maybe
that's a solution.
I'll make some tests with that ink I found and post here for later discussion.
I'll research for the possibility of using other ink, perhaps Epson inks in HP
cartriges. Anyone knows if something like that is possible?

Well, got the HP Black pigment ink. (found it downtown, what a surprise!)
But I got a problem. The ink does not attach to the smooth surface of the board.
So it aglomerates (is this word correct?) in very small ink balls. Like drips of
ink.

I didn't pre-heat the board, I wonder if that's the problem.
I have an eletric oven in the kitchen, maybe its time to use it...
Anyone got any idea? I wish I had some pictures to show you guys but my camera
had some problems.

Monthly Reminder, please read:

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Thank you,
Steve Greenfield
listowner Homebrew_PCBs, Inkjet_PCB_Construction, and Electronics_101

Hi,
 
I'm trying to modify my C90 for direct PCB printing.
 
I disassembled everything and made proper adjustment of printer head. But I'm
facing problem with Paper feed sensor. I exactly didn't understand where to
place this sensor. When I switch on my printer, the initialization is happening
properly but when I issue a print command (from my PC) it is showing error
"paper not loaded correctly". If I insert any tape between two walls of sensor,
it displays error "paper jammed".
 
I'm stuck now. Could anybody help me regarding this?
 
Thanks,
Satish
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been following this and the 3d printer. I am interested in the
3d printer. I have wondered why there is so much interest in pcb
printing? How do you make a double sided board and keep the
registration? Isn't it simpler to simply use the old fashion method of
printing out the top and bottom views on a laser printer and then
register the two sides using the holes as the guide. Then sandwich a
double sided photsensitive PCB between it, expose it then etch?