petrof_pluto wrote:
> I really want to make a high quality XY gantry printer and am revisiting the
subject after a delay involved with moving.
>
> I was working with a Canon Pixma printer previously which was pretty easy to
hack and disassemble but then the ink dried up in the model I had and I decided
not to pursue hacking this model because of the ink supply problem (bubblejet).
>
> So now I am restarting but have thought about it more carefully in terms of
printer selection and design.
>
> I have decided on the Epson R280 printer for the following reasons:
> 1) Piezoelectric print head
> 2) CISS ink system readily available (external plugin cartidge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjTg5fhub7g) for $40 shipped on ebay.  This will
be very cool and a huge money/time saver if you print a lot.  I'd like to be
able to print on all sorts of things like concrete, wood floors, etc.
> 3) Cheap and readily available - $45 for open box/no ink $65 for new/no ink
$75 for new with ink (anyone know of a cheaper source, let me know).  I will buy
3 units to hack.
> 4) Service manual freely available to aid in disassembly(back search
Inkjet_PCB_Construction posts).
> 5) Other people have used it and it seems relatively easy to take apart.
> 6) Direct driving of Epson head code available from Volkar and also POSAM
project.
>
> Resources:
> 1) PC scope DSO-2009
> 2) CNC Mill/Lathe for making parts
> 3) Logic Analyzer - instead of shooting in the dark, I bought a real logic
analyzer this time
> 4) XYZ gantry - precision 1um 30"x24"x4" PMAC controlled gantry
> 5) NI FPGA daq boards
> 6) Handfull of TI, SILabs microcontrollers, maybe I will spring for a
propeller also.
>
> Goals:
> 1) Make this a high quality hack that is easily reproducable with excellent
documentation.
> 2) Minimum amount of machining/cuts so the hack can be easily reproduced and
parts ordered.
> 3) Recycle most of printer.
> 4) Make use of a widely available/cheap microcontroller platform.  Rather than
making a custom pcb which is at least $60 and a lot of parts hassle, I'd like to
use something like the TI EZ430 ($10) or Parallax propstick propellor if it's
not fast enough.  Then all you do is solder a few wires and that's it!  I've
always hated tracking down discrete resistors from digikey and solder SMT parts.
>
> Methods:
> 1) Disassemble printer and remove the paper drive
> 2) Use the logic analyzer to figure out the sequence of events.  Based on my
Canon Pixma experience and other posts, this should be pretty easy.  There are
usually 3 optical sensor for the encoder, paper feed and paper sensor.
> 3) Translate the encoder signals to distances.  Reproduce the motion first by
strapping the printer to my XYZ gantry then later on maybe drive a stepper
motor.  Idea is X pulses on the encoder would move the stepper motor 1 step.  My
PMAC controlled XYZ makes this really easy because I just put the encoder
signals into the available 4th axis and make the Y servo follow.
> 4) Use 80/20 (8020.net) extruded aluminum for all possible mechanical parts. 
80/20 does very cheap basic maching such as cut to length, drill and tap holes,
etc for like $2 a hole or cut.  After it's all done, you just bolt it all
together with T nuts.  I have access to full CNC machines and cam software but
it's so much easier having someone else do it.
>
> Any comments or offers to collaborate would be appreciated!
>
I finally got R280 to work on a daily basis.  However, I am interested
in a larger format.  Would the Epson code drive a wider carriage?

Phil D

I too am trying to modify an epson T10. Perhaps you can provide some
documentation of how you did your modification so far so that others (like me)
modifying the T10 will have an easier time. Thanks!

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "Kaveendra Vithana"
<kaveendrav@...> wrote:
>
> I am modifying an EPSON T10. Everything is now in place except i could not get
the paper sensor in the right position yet, which Leeds to the spitting out of
paper.
>
> I have placed the sensor just bellow the metal head carrier beam (right side)
and used a 4 inch slot cut on an A4 Paper (from top). I have adjusted the sensor
and slot length numorous times, but still no luck.
>
> Any advise on the right direction would greatly appreciated (since i am
wasting lot of ink on this trial and error process)
>

I would like to know what sort of inks can be used to etch PCBs and what method
should be used to cure each type of inks. The usual recommendation is printing
with mispro black pigment inks on a heated board, but mispro inks may be
inaccessible or too expensive to purchase in some countries, so a list of
alternatives would be good.

So please post your experiences with workable inks and how you managed to do it
here.

Does anyone here have experience with these printers?

I'm pretty happy with my R280 and the DVD tray solution, but I'm always looking
for something better.

The procedure I'm using now seems to work OK, but I'm always looking for finer
lines and tighter clearances.

It seems the best way to use the R280 that I found was this:

  - use stock ink and the DVD tray
  - prep the PCB with a brillo pad, and alcohol wash/wipe. Then heat it up just
before printing, this will drive off any excess water.
  - you must fool the printer with a paper CD in the tray, just lay the small
copper blank on top. use adhesive tape to hold both in place. This does require
the tray to be modified to hold the PCB.
  - print from the CAD program onto the copper
  - immediately dust with printer toner, and gently blow off excess.
  - fuse the toner with a short warm-up on a hotplate, you'll see the toner fuse.
  - etch

That's it.

Actually, it is yellow MISPRO ink that has been reported to work best.

It would be good to know of alternatives. I seem to recall someone testing stock
Epson Durabrite and finding a different color worked best.

They must be baked up to a fairly high temperature to set them so they withstand
the etch bath.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "xieliwei1" <xieliwei@...>
wrote:
>
> I would like to know what sort of inks can be used to etch PCBs and what
method should be used to cure each type of inks. The usual recommendation is
printing with mispro black pigment inks on a heated board, but mispro inks may
be inaccessible or too expensive to purchase in some countries, so a list of
alternatives would be good.
>
> So please post your experiences with workable inks and how you managed to do
it here.
>

In my recent experience with cleaning out clogged printhead parts on 4 epsons I
noticed that yellow seemed to have the biggest tendency to clog up. And the old
dried yellow deposits were the hardest to remove. This leads me to believe that
yellow may have a higher concentration of pigment particles, or something to
that effect.

To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
From: alienrelics@...
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 05:23:06 +0000
Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Usable Ink Types


























       Actually, it is yellow MISPRO ink that has been reported to work best.



It would be good to know of alternatives. I seem to recall someone testing stock
Epson Durabrite and finding a different color worked best.



They must be baked up to a fairly high temperature to set them so they withstand
the etch bath.



Steve Greenfield



--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "xieliwei1" <xieliwei@...>
wrote:

>

> I would like to know what sort of inks can be used to etch PCBs and what
method should be used to cure each type of inks. The usual recommendation is
printing with mispro black pigment inks on a heated board, but mispro inks may
be inaccessible or too expensive to purchase in some countries, so a list of
alternatives would be good.

>

> So please post your experiences with workable inks and how you managed to do
it here.

>






















_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® goes with you.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mob\
ile1_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm looking to get my hands on a few Epson Stylus 700 printers to
experiment on.  Can someone recommend a source or sell me one?
Thanks.

I have a stylus 740 that I could not get to work because of problems with the
head plugging up after only a few inches opf printing.... You are welcome to it
if you think you have better luck.

Gary

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to get my hands on a few Epson Stylus 700 printers to
> experiment on.  Can someone recommend a source or sell me one?
> Thanks.
>

Gary Stofer wrote:
> I have a stylus 740 that I could not get to work because of problems with the
head plugging up after only a few inches opf printing.... You are welcome to it
if you think you have better luck.
>
> Gary
>
> --- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...>
wrote:
>> I'm looking to get my hands on a few Epson Stylus 700 printers to
>> experiment on.  Can someone recommend a source or sell me one?
>> Thanks.

I found Nifty "All Purpose Cleaner" excellent. I fill an old
ink cartridge with it and use it for clean-out cycles. I've
only used it on epson stylus inkjets.

It's excellent for restoring old gear and removing cigarette
smoke effects.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Nifty+All+Purpose+Cleaner&btnG=Search&me\
ta=

Some info on cleaning inkjet printers:
http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/

Steve Greenfield

________________________________
From: Gary Stofer <garyStofer@...>


I have a stylus 740 that I could not get to work because of problems with the
head plugging up after only a few inches opf printing.... You are welcome to it
if you think you have better luck.

Gary

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construc tion@yahoogroups .com, Henry Liu <henryjliu@. ..>
wrote:
>
> I'm looking to get my hands on a few Epson Stylus 700 printers to
> experiment on.  Can someone recommend a source or sell me one?
> Thanks.
>

I have been researching the latest tech on doing really
fine etch, and printing conductor directly onto substrate
using inkjet seems one way.   This is additive process.
Rather than subtractive (printing a resist on copper).

I ran across this company that (supposedly?) sells inkjet
compatible silver conductive ink which can be printed on
a variety of substrates.  I uploaded the data sheet just
now.  see the bottom of this message.

Has anyone tried this?

I have not modified an inkjet though it seems straightforward
if the company claims piezoelectric compatibility (that is
EPSON printers right?).

I don't see any info on how fine a trace this can yield. From
some journal articles, I read that printing conductive inks
to paper results in some bleeding (into the fibers, so
the trace spreads) whereas printing on glass or etc seemingly
works OK.  I guess an inkjet printer modified to print as
a flatbed would be the way to go.

I have a couple research papers on this topic if anyone
is interested, there is one recently where a guy mixed his
own relatively simple chemistry into an inkjet cartridge
and was able to print silver.  However his research only
printed standard trace widths, 0.100", and I am more curious
about getting down to 0.005" or lower (theoretically it only
depends on printer DPI if the printer is printing an ideal
conductor?).


http://www.cabot-corp.com

Cabot Conductive Ink, CCI-300, is a general-use ink designed for piezoelectric
inkjet printing of conductive features on a variety of substrates.  CCI-300 is
comprised of engineered nanoparticles in a liquid vehicle. Cabot's CCI-300 ink
contains surface modified ultra-fine silver nanoparticles that are engineered
for reliable inkjet printing to form highresolution, low resistivity conductive
features on a variety of substrates. Because metal nanoparticles have reduced
melting and sintering temperatures as compared to their micron-sized
counterparts,CCI-300 can be processed at temperatures as low as 100ºC. This
enables printing of highly conductive metal features on low cost substrates such
as paper, FR4, polyester, polyimide, display glass, and silicon.

Sorry for the double post.  A second company referenced in
a review article is Parmod:
"Parmod®VLT silver and copper conductive inks"

Claimed traces down to 0.003" ?

And their datasheet says they can do 50 micron - but that
is not by printing (instead somehow filling a laser-etched
channel with conductive ink).

For normal stuff that low doesn't matter, though doing
0.003" by printing conductor directly by inkjet seems
pretty cool to me.  Especially if it is on a flexi.

Ok so now hopefully someone will say they have already
tried this!   (I don't know how much the ink costs yet)


http://www.parelec.com/data_sheets.html


Quote:

Now it may be possible to cut costs drastically by printing RFID antenna
circuitry directly on a corrugated shipping box, say engineers with PRPflexo,
Indianapolis.

Trials using Parmod silver ink from Parelec, Rocky Hill, N.J., printed antennae
with lines spaced just 0.003 in. apart. Tests show the antennas are sufficiently
conductive to work in a commercial environment. PRPflexo's ExSpect flexo plates
in other applications print clear and legible two-point type on rough corrugated
board and Tyvek, says the company.

The print trials took place at Clemson University's PrintCon facility using a
corrugated flexo printer. Additional tests are in the works.



Datasheet quote:


Parmod VLT can be used to metallize micro-vias and fine
conductor lines in high density interconnect applications,
such as build-up circuit boards and semiconductor
packaging, enabling less than 50 micron lines and spaces.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Inkjet_PCB_Construction
group.

   File        : /IMS08_Vyas.pdf
   Uploaded by : jc805sb <jc805sb@...>
   Description : (Silver nanoparticle ink printed with inkjet makes 904.4 MHz
microcontroller-based transmitter) Design, Integration and Characterization of a
Novel Paper-based  Wireless Sensor Module, Microwave Symposium Digest, 2008 IEEE
MTT-S International -- "Resolution as low as 50 µm could be achieved using the
printing process .. [BUT!] significant fundamental challenges exist with regards
to the fabrication of RF structure on it using inkjet printing."

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inkjet_PCB_Construction/files/IMS08_Vyas.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

jc805sb <jc805sb@...>

Wow! Very impressive.

Yes, Epson printers use piezo print heads. I wonder if there are any solvents in
the "ink" that might damage plastic parts? Although a lot of solvent ink wide
format printers use Epson piezo heads, they have replaced parts damageable by
solvent with other materials.

Great find, thank you very much for sharing!

Steve Greenfield


________________________________
From: jc805sb <jc805sb@...>
To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:38:20 PM
Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] additive circuit printing w/ inkjet using
silver inks





I have been researching the latest tech on doing really
fine etch, and printing conductor directly onto substrate
using inkjet seems one way.   This is additive process.
Rather than subtractive (printing a resist on copper).

I ran across this company that (supposedly? ) sells inkjet
compatible silver conductive ink which can be printed on
a variety of substrates.  I uploaded the data sheet just
now.  see the bottom of this message.

Has anyone tried this?

I have not modified an inkjet though it seems straightforward
if the company claims piezoelectric compatibility (that is
EPSON printers right?).

I don't see any info on how fine a trace this can yield. From
some journal articles, I read that printing conductive inks
to paper results in some bleeding (into the fibers, so
the trace spreads) whereas printing on glass or etc seemingly
works OK.  I guess an inkjet printer modified to print as
a flatbed would be the way to go.

I have a couple research papers on this topic if anyone
is interested, there is one recently where a guy mixed his
own relatively simple chemistry into an inkjet cartridge
and was able to print silver.  However his research only
printed standard trace widths, 0.100", and I am more curious
about getting down to 0.005" or lower (theoretically it only
depends on printer DPI if the printer is printing an ideal
conductor?).

http://www.cabot-corp.com

Cabot Conductive Ink, CCI-300, is a general-use ink designed for piezoelectric
inkjet printing of conductive features on a variety of substrates.  CCI-300 is
comprised of engineered nanoparticles in a liquid vehicle. Cabot's CCI-300 ink
contains surface modified ultra-fine silver nanoparticles that are engineered
for reliable inkjet printing to form highresolution, low resistivity conductive
features on a variety of substrates. Because metal nanoparticles have reduced
melting and sintering temperatures as compared to their micron-sized
counterparts, CCI-300 can be processed at temperatures as low as 100ºC. This
enables printing of highly conductive metal features on low cost substrates such
as paper, FR4, polyester, polyimide, display glass, and silicon.

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "jc805sb" <jc805sb@...> wrote:
>
> I have been researching the latest tech on doing really
> fine etch, and printing conductor directly onto substrate
> using inkjet seems one way.   This is additive process.
> Rather than subtractive (printing a resist on copper).

This is what I'm interested in, too.  Even better, has anyone tried to print
SEMIconductor directly onto substrate?  Put conductive ink in the cyan, n-type
semiconductor ink in the magenta, p-type ink in the yellow, ...  :)

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, Steve Greenfield
<alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
>
> Wow! Very impressive.
>
> Yes, Epson printers use piezo print heads. I wonder if there are any solvents
in the "ink" that might damage plastic parts? Although a lot of solvent ink wide
format printers use Epson piezo heads, they have replaced parts damageable by
solvent with other materials.
>
> Great find, thank you very much for sharing!
>
> Steve Greenfield


BTW the reason I was looking into silver, is because a
couple research papers started with printing "copper ink"
(some solutions that when printed in succession precipitate
copper) but the resistivity or the linearity wasn't as good.
It seems most experiments find that silver works the best.
Although a lot of the papers are for exotic substrates
like conductor on cotton fiber, poly fiber, or thin plastics.


For the silver, no the solutions don't damage the inkjet
head as far as any of the research describes.  One guy
used very innocuous / off-the-shelf solution mix too.
Since there is interest here I will find the paper again
& upload it.

>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jc805sb <jc805sb@...>
> To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:38:20 PM
> Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] additive circuit printing w/ inkjet using
silver inks
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been researching the latest tech on doing really
> fine etch, and printing conductor directly onto substrate
> using inkjet seems one way.   This is additive process.
> Rather than subtractive (printing a resist on copper).
>
> I ran across this company that (supposedly? ) sells inkjet
> compatible silver conductive ink which can be printed on
> a variety of substrates.  I uploaded the data sheet just
> now.  see the bottom of this message.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> I have not modified an inkjet though it seems straightforward
> if the company claims piezoelectric compatibility (that is
> EPSON printers right?).
>
> I don't see any info on how fine a trace this can yield. From
> some journal articles, I read that printing conductive inks
> to paper results in some bleeding (into the fibers, so
> the trace spreads) whereas printing on glass or etc seemingly
> works OK.  I guess an inkjet printer modified to print as
> a flatbed would be the way to go.
>
> I have a couple research papers on this topic if anyone
> is interested, there is one recently where a guy mixed his
> own relatively simple chemistry into an inkjet cartridge
> and was able to print silver.  However his research only
> printed standard trace widths, 0.100", and I am more curious
> about getting down to 0.005" or lower (theoretically it only
> depends on printer DPI if the printer is printing an ideal
> conductor?).
>
> http://www.cabot-corp.com
>
> Cabot Conductive Ink, CCI-300, is a general-use ink designed for piezoelectric
inkjet printing of conductive features on a variety of substrates.  CCI-300 is
comprised of engineered nanoparticles in a liquid vehicle. Cabot's CCI-300 ink
contains surface modified ultra-fine silver nanoparticles that are engineered
for reliable inkjet printing to form highresolution, low resistivity conductive
features on a variety of substrates. Because metal nanoparticles have reduced
melting and sintering temperatures as compared to their micron-sized
counterparts, CCI-300 can be processed at temperatures as low as 100ºC. This
enables printing of highly conductive metal features on low cost substrates such
as paper, FR4, polyester, polyimide, display glass, and silicon.
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Inkjet_PCB_Construction
group.

   File        : /Printing Conductive Inks/Inkjet printing of conductive silver
tracks 2009.pdf
   Uploaded by : jc805sb <jc805sb@...>
   Description : A one-step process to fabricate conductive features on
flexible polymer substrates by inkjet  printing an organometallic silver
ink directly onto a substrate that is heated to 130 ◦ C is  presented.  A
metallo-organic decomposition (MOD) ink does not contain solids, unlike with
nanoparticle inks.  Inkjet printing was performed using a piezoelectric Autodrop
printer (MicrodropTechnologiesGmbH, Germany)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inkjet_PCB_Construction/files/Printing%20Conductiv\
e%20Inks/Inkjet%20printing%20of%20conductive%20silver%20tracks%202009.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

jc805sb <jc805sb@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Inkjet_PCB_Construction
group.

   File        : /Printing Conductive Inks/Inkjet Printable Polyaniline
Nanoformulations.pdf
   Uploaded by : jc805sb <jc805sb@...>
   Description : Describes successful printing of conductive polymer nanoparticle
inks with Epson Stylus C45 and modified Epson print cartridges and chip
resetter, and describes how to make the ink

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inkjet_PCB_Construction/files/Printing%20Conductiv\
e%20Inks/Inkjet%20Printable%20Polyaniline%20Nanoformulations.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

jc805sb <jc805sb@...>

Interesting posts. I was wondering if it is possible to do something like that.
Unfortunately it seems to be highly experimental and probably not available to
make experiments.
If you have/find more info in this area I would be glad to know / discuss etc.

You might be interested in:
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/direct-inkjet-metal-traces.htm

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "jc805sb" <jc805sb@...> wrote:
>
> I have been researching the latest tech on doing really
> fine etch, and printing conductor directly onto substrate
> using inkjet seems one way.   This is additive process.
> Rather than subtractive (printing a resist on copper).

</snip>

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "dandumit" <dandumit@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting posts. I was wondering if it is possible to do something like
that. Unfortunately it seems to be highly experimental and probably not
available to make experiments.
> If you have/find more info in this area I would be glad to know / discuss etc.


I think this technology is relatively stable within it's niche
applications.  Most of the cutting-edge seems to be on printable
fabrics, however, I just want printable super-fine-resolution FR4.
So now it needs to be brought into the PCB arena with a little
home experimentation.

- Parnod VLT silver ink
- NINK®-Ag series, conductive silver ink
- Cabot Conductive Ink, CCI-300
- (custom organic metal solutions)
- Methode Electronics, Inc. water-based ink #9101
- Creative Materials, Inc Conductive Pad Printing Inks
- DuPont 5064 silver conductive ink (see Cabot)

I don't know how much these commercially available inks cost.
Time to give them a call to get a quote and hopefully
load it in the Epson cartridge.
Anyone else want to try as well?

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "jc805sb" <jc805sb@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "dandumit" <dandumit@> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting posts. I was wondering if it is possible to do something like
that. Unfortunately it seems to be highly experimental and probably not
available to make experiments.
> > If you have/find more info in this area I would be glad to know / discuss
etc.
>
>
> I think this technology is relatively stable within it's niche
> applications.  Most of the cutting-edge seems to be on printable
> fabrics, however, I just want printable super-fine-resolution FR4.
> So now it needs to be brought into the PCB arena with a little
> home experimentation.
>
> - Parnod VLT silver ink
> - NINK®-Ag series, conductive silver ink
> - Cabot Conductive Ink, CCI-300
> - (custom organic metal solutions)
> - Methode Electronics, Inc. water-based ink #9101
> - Creative Materials, Inc Conductive Pad Printing Inks
> - DuPont 5064 silver conductive ink (see Cabot)
>
> I don't know how much these commercially available inks cost.
> Time to give them a call to get a quote and hopefully
> load it in the Epson cartridge.
> Anyone else want to try as well?
>

Hi, this sounds very interesting. I do not have a printer converted but really
interested to see how you get on.

Trev

I got one for $45 on craigslist + 8 new cartridges of
various colors.

I don't know how much it differs from R280 from the
file in the files section.  This model comes with
CD/DVD print tray.  One thing I was curious about:
if there are optical sensors which detect a proper
CD (to fake it with FR4 in future).  I printed a pic
onto a transparent, rigid CD spacer (comes in CD
packages) and this printed OK - it means the CD/DVD
tray does not use optical sensors for sensing the CD.
I was also able to print on a paper-cut-out-to-CD after
repeated attempts.  There may be a physical sensor
detecting the presence of a CD, not sure.

Before it prints to CD, the head moves vertically several
mm, and moves back down to normal position when done.

Hello there. I would like to say that this mod is just great, and congrat people
that managed to modify a printer for direct PCB printing!

I have some general questions about this hole thing, please answer then if you
can:

1- I see that most or all mods are made with epson printers. Is there a reason
for that?

2- I see that people have managed to do this mod with a few models (C84, C87,
C88 and others few). Is there a guideline or something that you can use to
decide if it is possible to do this mod with a different model? I mean, is there
any requisits that the printer must have or something?

3- I see that you must "cook" the board to make the ink stick to the board. Is
the temperature controll really critical? Anyone know what would be an
acceptable temperature range?

4- How about double sided PCBs? Would I have to print and "cook" one side and
then print the other side and "cook" it again?

5- One problem of mine is that I can not find the printers that people have
allready modified on my contry (Brazil) at affortable prices. Would the epson
models C43, C63 or C45 work? Those I can find at a good price.

I am sorry if those question have allready been answered on this list - I have
searched it and did not find it. I am really looking foward to try this mod, and
then document my steps on my wiki.

Thank you!

- Uderman
http://www.temadigital.com.br

Hi there Felipe,
I would rather write in portuguese, once I'm brasilian too. But most people here
aren't so, I'll write in english too.
  Let's see, I cannot answer all the questions here, because I didn't manage to
modify
any epson printer, but once I tried a HP printer. And them a discovered HP won't
work. >=\
So I'll tell some things that I discovered, because I passed the same thing that
you are passing now. =P

1- I see that most or all mods are made with epson printers. Is there a reason
for that?
    yes, ther is a very importante reason. Epson cartriges (cartuchos) are
differet than HP ones,  and with that, the ink used in Epson printers is
different too.
    HP inks will not attach to the surface of the board, and do not work, trust
me, I tried.
    And not all Epson inks will work too, there are some special ones.

  2- I see that people have managed to do this mod with a few models (C84, C87,
C88 and others few). Is there a guideline or something that you can use to
decide if it is possible to do this mod with a different model? I mean, is there
any requisits that the printer must have or something?
      The basic guide is if you can make the board passa through the printer to
print on it, and if the model support the specified Acid Resistant ink. But I do
not know much about this, so maybe you'll better get other opinions about people
that had allready modified epsons.

  3- I see that you must "cook" the board to make the ink stick to the board. Is
the temperature controll really critical? Anyone know what would be an
acceptable temperature range?
      Hmmm, can tell you much about that.... sorry

  4- How about double sided PCBs? Would I have to print and "cook" one side and
then print the other side and "cook" it again?
      I believe you can print both sides, and the cook only once. Because the
'cook' process is to make the ink acid resistant. So ou just need to cook it
before put it into acid.

  5- One problem of mine is that I can not find the printers that people have
allready modified on my contry (Brazil) at affortable prices. Would the epson
models C43, C63 or C45 work? Those I can find at a good price.
    The key is to use the correct inks, you could see which cartriges thesse
printers use. If they use the same cartriges, I can't see why it wouldn't work

Hello Roger, thank you for your comments. I have researched a bit more about
this topic, and it looks like a big challenge!
I have found a very useful document about the Epson Durabite Inks. It is in
portuguese, but I believe an english version exists also:
http://www.epson.com.br/pais/BR/paginas/tecnologia/PDF/Tintas_Durabrite.pdf

<http://www.epson.com.br/pais/BR/paginas/tecnologia/PDF/Tintas_Durabrite.pdf>Acc\
ording
to the document above, the following printers are compatible with Durabrite
inks:

Epson Stylus C63
Epson Stylus C83
Epson Stylus CX5400
Epson Stylus CX6300
Epson Stylus C80 (have compatibily with an old version of Durabrite)

Those are probably the ones sold to Brazilian market. I have found both the
C63 and C83 printers on mercadolivre (local ebay) at affordable prices. I
will see if I can dig some information on which one would be better or
easyer to mod. I would apreciate any input on this matter.


[]´s,

- Uderman
http://www.temadigital.com.br/



On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:02 PM, <rogerdupont@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi there Felipe,
> I would rather write in portuguese, once I'm brasilian too. But most people
> here aren't so, I'll write in english too.
> Let's see, I cannot answer all the questions here, because I didn't manage
> to modify
> any epson printer, but once I tried a HP printer. And them a discovered HP
> won't work. >=\
> So I'll tell some things that I discovered, because I passed the same thing
> that you are passing now. =P
>
>
> 1- I see that most or all mods are made with epson printers. Is there a
> reason for that?
> yes, ther is a very importante reason. Epson cartriges (cartuchos) are
> differet than HP ones, and with that, the ink used in Epson printers is
> different too.
> HP inks will not attach to the surface of the board, and do not work, trust
> me, I tried.
> And not all Epson inks will work too, there are some special ones.
>
> 2- I see that people have managed to do this mod with a few models (C84,
> C87, C88 and others few). Is there a guideline or something that you can use
> to decide if it is possible to do this mod with a different model? I mean,
> is there any requisits that the printer must have or something?
> The basic guide is if you can make the board passa through the printer to
> print on it, and if the model support the specified Acid Resistant ink. But
> I do not know much about this, so maybe you'll better get other opinions
> about people that had allready modified epsons.
>
> 3- I see that you must "cook" the board to make the ink stick to the board.
> Is the temperature controll really critical? Anyone know what would be an
> acceptable temperature range?
> Hmmm, can tell you much about that.... sorry
>
> 4- How about double sided PCBs? Would I have to print and "cook" one side
> and then print the other side and "cook" it again?
> I believe you can print both sides, and the cook only once. Because the
> 'cook' process is to make the ink acid resistant. So ou just need to cook it
> before put it into acid.
>
> 5- One problem of mine is that I can not find the printers that people have
> allready modified on my contry (Brazil) at affortable prices. Would the
> epson models C43, C63 or C45 work? Those I can find at a good price.
> The key is to use the correct inks, you could see which cartriges thesse
> printers use. If they use the same cartriges, I can't see why it wouldn't
> work
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Buddy,

Let me give a try.


1- I see that most or all mods are made with epson printers. Is there a
reason for that?
*Yes there is a specific reason of using EPSON on HP. 1 HP Uses Thermal
Technology wher in EPSON uses Piezo Tech.. It makes EPSON More precise and
Sharp Prints which is much more required in direct PCB printing. HP Inks
just spread Out.*
**

2- I see that people have managed to do this mod with a few models (C84,
C87, C88 and others few). Is there a guideline or something that you can use
to decide if it is possible to do this mod with a different model? I mean,
is there any requisits that the printer must have or something?
*Nop.. Nothing special is required. Here more IMP is u should b able to pass
the PCB thru Paper Path. Here more IMP is INKS what u use... I m using R310
Model Of EPSON which is a foto Printer.*

3- I see that you must "cook" the board to make the ink stick to the board.
Is the temperature controll really critical? Anyone know what would be an
acceptable temperature range?
*I m not sure abt Cooking. Yes but heating is reqd. It is because INKS are
Waterbased / Oilbased, U need to Dry out the water / oil from the PCB after
printing. When u heat the Printed PCB, u actualy vapourise the oil / water
from INK and leaves back only INK granuels deposited on PCB.*


4- How about double sided PCBs? Would I have to print and "cook" one side
and then print the other side and "cook" it again?
*Sry buddy, u cannot print double sided PCB. the main reason behind this is
REGISTRATION.*
*Registration means, u wont ever get an exact replicated image on the other
side of PCB in a modified Printer. So ur drills will never match. I have
tried it.. no success.*


5- One problem of mine is that I can not find the printers that people have
allready modified on my contry (Brazil) at affortable prices. Would the
epson models C43, C63 or C45 work? Those I can find at a good price.
*Even C45 will work here. Infact C63 is the best option as it has Durabrite
INKS in it and the nozzle area of these machines are bigger dan C45 & C43.
C63 Delivers approx 6pico litres droplet which will give u sharper Prints
and less head cloggs.*



Tamseel...

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:18 AM, felipeuderman <felipe.uderman@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hello there. I would like to say that this mod is just great, and congrat
> people that managed to modify a printer for direct PCB printing!
>
> I have some general questions about this hole thing, please answer then if
> you can:
>
> 1- I see that most or all mods are made with epson printers. Is there a
> reason for that?
>
> 2- I see that people have managed to do this mod with a few models (C84,
> C87, C88 and others few). Is there a guideline or something that you can use
> to decide if it is possible to do this mod with a different model? I mean,
> is there any requisits that the printer must have or something?
>
> 3- I see that you must "cook" the board to make the ink stick to the board.
> Is the temperature controll really critical? Anyone know what would be an
> acceptable temperature range?
>
> 4- How about double sided PCBs? Would I have to print and "cook" one side
> and then print the other side and "cook" it again?
>
> 5- One problem of mine is that I can not find the printers that people have
> allready modified on my contry (Brazil) at affortable prices. Would the
> epson models C43, C63 or C45 work? Those I can find at a good price.
>
> I am sorry if those question have allready been answered on this list - I
> have searched it and did not find it. I am really looking foward to try this
> mod, and then document my steps on my wiki.
>
> Thank you!
>
> - Uderman
> http://www.temadigital.com.br
>
>
>



--
    Have A Nice Day
    (¨`·.·´¨) Always
     `·.¸(¨`·.·´¨) Keep
    (¨`·.·´¨)..·´ Smiling!
     `·.¸.·´
--Tamseel--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Volkan,

I am not sure I understand what you have done /is trying to do. You have bulded
a driver for the piezzo head, is this it?

Are you planning to use this to build a XY plotter? Have you already done some
work on the mechanical part?

Thank you!

[]'s
- Uderman
http://www.temadigital.com.br/

--- In Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com, "v_sahin" <v_sahin@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> This is my first posting to our new group, I'll try to explain my way
> of implementation. Hardware wise it is not so much different than
> Epson new generation printers. My major aim was to design a
> hardware/SW to implement a generic printer device.  I planed to use
> inkjet head as an actuator. Later the same structure can be used to
> control laser/edm head also.
> I used my previous experiences on Epson CX4200/4800 because of that my
> knowledge is limited to drive Epson piezo heads but their head is much
> more complicated than Xaar or Spectra heads.
> As a general rule piezo heads can be used to eject different type of
> liquids but for Epson head never try to use anything that is solvent
> based. The main reason is inside the head most parts are glued
> together and it is very easy to damage it.
> In my implementation, I try to use minimum computational power for the
> micro and try to do all the timing related tasks on the fpga and keep
> all bulk storage at the PC side. As a summary:
> -Microcontroller is used to control servo loop, USB connection,  fpga
> SPI interface and has a minimum set of commands to interface host.
> -FPGA is used to do quadrature decoding of X/Y optical encoders, X-Y
> position counting, X/Y start position detection, SDRAM interface,
> waveform DAC control, SPI interface, inkjet head interface.
> -PC is used to control printer through USB. It downloads fpga data,
> waveform data, raster image, sets X/Y head positions.
>
> I uploaded schematics, a figure showing implemented blocks inside fpga
> and Epson head driving signals under groups
> Files/Flat_bed_inkjet/Reference Figures folder.
>
> Epson inkjet head signals:
> COM: Trapezoidal drive signal 4-30Volts
> NCHG: Discharge all piezo (I don't know actual naming maybe Not CHarGe)
> CH: Increment waveform counter.
> LE: Latch enable
> CLK: Data clock (both edges used to sample data)
> Yellow(Y) Data:
> Cyan(C) Data:
> Magenta(M) Data:
> Black(K) Data
> All colors data are sampled (latched) with CLK signal.
> In Epson head each dot is represented by 2 bits therefore if each
> color has a 90 nozzles it means that we need to send 180 bits, in
> addition to that it also requires a waveform select bits in my case it
> was 32 bits. So it requires 212 bits data transfer for per 90 nozzles.
> The function of 2 bits representation is to select different drop size
> for each dot. For example
> 00 selects waveform 5 (no print)
> 01 selects waveform 7 (Medium size dot)
> 10 selects waveform 0 (Large size dot)
> 11 selects waveform 1 (Minimum size dot)
> The waveform  select bits (32 in my case) is used to assign physical
> waveform number to 2 bits representation, so in this case we have 32
> bits and maximum 4 possibility for each dot, we can select 1 out of
> 8(=32/4) possible waveforms  for each dot. This is common for all 90
> nozzles.
> On X-axis I have 720 dpi linear encoder(quadrature decoding) and if
> assume head travels 8" in 2 seconds we have   ~350 microseconds
> between each encoder pulse. During this time we need to download next
> encoder position data so our head clock period should be 3.3
> microseconds maximum in the case of double edge clocking. If we double
> the resolution we need 1.65microseconds as a clock period.
>
> You can find detailed information on  Epson head format in US patent
> 6758544 B2.
> That's all for today.
> Cheers,
> Volkan
>

Hi Uderman,
Yes, I designed a flatbed inkjet printer which uses Epson piezo inkjet head and
it drives head without Epson printer electronics. I'm still using it to make  my
prototype pcbs. The mechanical part of the printer uses x-axis of the printer, I
only added y-axis table moving on linear rails.  It is not a perfect mechanical
design but good enough to print down to 4/4 mil (~100micron meter /100 micron
meter) trace width/space. The printer electronics designed to print at 1440 dpi.
I didn't try to go higher that.
It can be used as x/y plotter if you convert input data format to bmp there is
no problem but if you plan to use it as a 3d printer/plotter you need to add
z-axis control.
I didn't continue to write on group about the printer since it didn't create
enough interest on group if you try to build one you can contact with me off the
group. 

Cheers,
Volkan

--- On Sun, 7/12/09, felipeuderman <felipe.uderman@...> wrote:

From: felipeuderman <felipe.uderman@...>
Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Homemade flatbed inkjet pcb printer
To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 1:05 PM

















       Hello Volkan,



I am not sure I understand what you have done /is trying to do. You have bulded
a driver for the piezzo head, is this it?



Are you planning to use this to build a XY plotter? Have you already done some
work on the mechanical part?



Thank you!



[]'s

- Uderman

http://www.temadigi tal.com.br/

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Volkan

I definitely don't agree with you... your writing are very interesting and
followed by many "silent" members of the group. Independently of all the
"piezzo head driver aspect", a brief description of your Y-axis linear table
or some pictures posted on the "file" section would be highly appreciated.

Please, keep on posting on the subject. The way you are working is
innovative, and could give other members ideas and solutions.


Tnks
Marc

A good working kernel doesn't allow a program crash unless it says “please”
Traduction : Da Power Fantudjû, RuleZ Tartiflette



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Volkan Sahin
Envoyé : lundi 13 juillet 2009 00:22
À : Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [SPAM+Header] - Re: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Homemade flatbed
inkjet pcb printer - Email found in subject

Hi Uderman,
Yes, I designed a flatbed inkjet printer which uses Epson piezo inkjet head
and it drives head without Epson printer electronics. I'm still using it to
make  my prototype pcbs. The mechanical part of the printer uses x-axis of
the printer, I only added y-axis table moving on linear rails.  It is not a
perfect mechanical design but good enough to print down to 4/4 mil
(~100micron meter /100 micron meter) trace width/space. The printer
electronics designed to print at 1440 dpi. I didn't try to go higher that.
It can be used as x/y plotter if you convert input data format to bmp there
is no problem but if you plan to use it as a 3d printer/plotter you need to
add z-axis control.
I didn't continue to write on group about the printer since it didn't create
enough interest on group if you try to build one you can contact with me off
the group. 

Cheers,
Volkan

--- On Sun, 7/12/09, felipeuderman <felipe.uderman@...> wrote:

From: felipeuderman <felipe.uderman@...>
Subject: [Inkjet_PCB_Construction] Re: Homemade flatbed inkjet pcb printer
To: Inkjet_PCB_Construction@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 1:05 PM

















       Hello Volkan,



I am not sure I understand what you have done /is trying to do. You have
bulded a driver for the piezzo head, is this it?



Are you planning to use this to build a XY plotter? Have you already done
some work on the mechanical part?



Thank you!



[]'s

- Uderman

http://www.temadigi tal.com.br/

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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