501(c)(3)'s are not allowed to take political positions or  lobby.  It
would be advisable to provide information, not people's opinions on
NAIS, and let members decide.   I'm assuming everyone knows I'm
rabidly against it!  are you sure we're a 501(c)(3) and not a 501(c)(4)?

LOL< by the way, the NIAA, which is the main organizations pushing the
NAIS agenda ahead is a (3)!

Karin Bergener
bergener@...






On Nov 20, 2009, at 1:28 AM, KinderZed@... wrote:

> Our Unified Business Identifier begins with 601, not 501 - does that
> make
> a difference? We do have an obligation to our membership to inform
> them of
> what will affect them, don't we? It is really in how we do it as I
> see it.
>
> Pat
>
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2009 7:12:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> allsberryfamily@... writes:
>
> I am totally against NAIS; however, my husband is an attorney with a
> state
> and federal bar card. We have battled the freedom issues concerning
> mandatory vaccines many times which is similar to this issue of govt
> control..
>
> When you are a 501c3 org, there are rules to follow, unfortunately
> some
> rules are shades of grey. If organizations do not follow these rules
> they can
> get slapped with ethics complains, fines and court proceedings and irs
> audits. As an org we should be careful and not get ourselves in
> trouble.
>
> If you look back to the creation and original purpose of the 501c3
> was to
> silent the church. I deeply care about the KGBA and worry about
> taking this
> stand as a organization not simply as individuals.
>
> I could be wrong and hope I am.
>
> In 2003 until 2005, I was an elected official for the 2nd
> Congressional
> District and know a lot about these laws.
>
> I cherish our freedoms and hope you understand I call us to be wise,
> not
> scared or foolish, while advocating for what we oppose and support.
>
> Karla
>
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: KinderZed@...
>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:39:06
>
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> It was already made official some time ago when the board put out an
>
> official anti-NAIS statement. Members and members-to-be need to be
> informed of
>
> the consequences of not taking a stand in a world where to be
> submissive
> to
>
> these kinds of rules could mean that our farms are on track to be
> crushed
>
>
> out of existence with the continual adoption of U.N. (global)
> policies.
>
> That's exactly what NAIS is part of. We all need to keep up on our
> homework.
>
> Pat
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2009 3:22:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>
> allsberryfamily@... writes:
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: qumran_israel
  To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
  Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS


   

  To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

  As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

  We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

  If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

  Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

  Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

  503c= government bondage
  non 503c=freedom

  These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

  Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

  Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.



 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to have
a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there must be more
than one of those already.  Maybe it would make sense for people to
be involved with those.  It would almost certainly be more effective
than concentrating the KGBA on it.

I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
For me it is all about the goats.

It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.

Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:

> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: qumran_israel
>   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
>   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
>
>
>   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
>   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
>   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> name, specifically from the KGBA website.
>
>   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> information for registration.
>
>   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
>   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
>   503c= government bondage
>   non 503c=freedom
>
>   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
>   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
>   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An organization does
not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be wise and not
foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member should encourage a
start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with
issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: qumran_israel
  To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
  Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS


   

  To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

  As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

  We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

  If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

  Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

  Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

  503c= government bondage
  non 503c=freedom

  These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

  Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

  Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.



 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I've been lurking on the list for a few months, and have finally decided to
stick my head up.

My wife and I (we live In Albemarle, NC) and we REALLY want to get started with
Kinders.  Now, as most of you know, we have no one raising kinders near us, and
I am not all that fond of "making" our own by cross breeding.

So having said that, I am looking for a Kinder raiser/breeder that is as close
to me as I can find that would be willing to sell us:

A young, pregnant kinder doe.
A second young kinder doe.
A kinder buck other than the one that was used to freshen the first doe.

I know I will have to rent an animal trailer or some other method of transport
(right now I only have a pickup) and spend 2-3 days to make it all happen.  I'm
willing to do this, but I'm also a little hesitant.  I know that, whomever I
decide to deal with, I will be somewhat at their mercy.  I don't want to drive
8-12 hrs (or more?) one way to find that the animals I have been promised are
sickly or have other issues.

So are there any breeders out there that are within a reasonable driving
distance of Albemarle NC (28001) that have what I need and would be willing to
work with me?

If not on the list, could anyone recommend someone?

Thanks in advance.

James


All email messages sent to and from Charlotte Country Day School are archived
and may be regenerated, reviewed, or turned over to government agencies such as
law enforcement if requested.

For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer.  For more info, visit his website
at http://www.nonais.org/

When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice about
our membership info being provided to the government.  IMO, we can't expect the
KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still "voluntary" (at
least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my personal info "volunteered"
without my permission.

While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no reason
why our organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's considered to
be) couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired, will be honored
until such time that the government requires disclosure of membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political activism.
Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons.  For example, I know of
someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy
farm.   Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by
a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names, addresses, phone
numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over the internet without
permission.  And, unless required by law, I likewise see no reason to hand over
personal info to the government.

Just my two cents.
Lisa




________________________________
From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An organization does
not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be wise and not
foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member should encourage a
start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with
issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: qumran_israel
   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS




   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

   503c= government bondage
   non 503c=freedom

   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No disagreement with any of that.  But it would sure be nice to have
a list of the KGBA members who are willing in hard copy, or somehow.


Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, lisa naumann wrote:

> For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization
> headed
> by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his website
> at http://www.nonais.org/
>
> When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a
> choice about our membership info being provided to the government.
> IMO, we can't expect the KGBA to break the law.
>
> But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still
> "voluntary" (at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my
> personal info "volunteered" without my permission.
>
> While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I
> see no reason why our organization (regardless of which type of non-
> profit it's considered to be) couldn't assure members that their
> anonymity, if desired, will be honored until such time that the
> government requires disclosure of membership info.
>
> An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to
> political activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of
> reasons. For example, I know of someone who has been harassed by
> PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy farm. Others may have
> personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by a
> psychopathic ex-spouse.
>
> My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names,
> addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over
> the internet without permission. And, unless required by law, I
> likewise see no reason to hand over personal info to the government.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Lisa
>
> ________________________________
> From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An
> organization does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We
> need to be wise and not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe
> the KGBA member should encourage a start of another organization
> that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with issues like
> these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
> are silenced in some ways.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: qumran_israel
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
> As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
> We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset
> and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of
> the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name,
> specifically from the KGBA website.
>
> If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue
> of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my time
> and troubles associated with my name being obtained and exploited
> the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple digits+
> attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent casualty of
> a new program so now I would like clarification on this critical
> issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information
> for registration.
>
> Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
> Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
> 503c= government bondage
> non 503c=freedom
>
> These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
> Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
> Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agreed.  Certainly there are those courageous souls who do want to be listed
publicly (thank goodness, or many of us probably wouldn't have been able to
locate any Kinders!)  That point of view should be accommodated as well.

I realize that having to keep track of member preferences in this regard
presents a logistical headache for the officers.  I guess the alternative is
that those who truly want anonymity can refrain from joining any breed
organizations, though that solution isn't necessarily fail-safe either.

A case in point:  Another breed organization to which I belong not only posted
every member's contact info publicly, but even listed non-members who just
happened to own registered stock.  When I posted my objection to this practice
on the members-only forum, I received no response from any of the officers. 
Though I could now withdraw my membership, it will make little difference, as
non-members are included on the public list.  Quite a mess.....

Lisa




________________________________
From: Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 2:03:35 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

No disagreement with any of that.  But it would sure be nice to have
a list of the KGBA members who are willing in hard copy, or somehow.


Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, lisa naumann wrote:

> For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization
> headed
> by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his website
> at http://www.nonais.org/
>
> When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a
> choice about our membership info being provided to the government.
> IMO, we can't expect the KGBA to break the law.
>
> But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still
> "voluntary" (at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my
> personal info "volunteered" without my permission.
>
> While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I
> see no reason why our organization (regardless of which type of non-
> profit it's considered to be) couldn't assure members that their
> anonymity, if desired, will be honored until such time that the
> government requires disclosure of membership info.
>
> An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to
> political activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of
> reasons. For example, I know of someone who has been harassed by
> PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy farm. Others may have
> personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by a
> psychopathic ex-spouse.
>
> My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names,
> addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over
> the internet without permission. And, unless required by law, I
> likewise see no reason to hand over personal info to the government.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Lisa
>
> ________________________________
> From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An
> organization does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We
> need to be wise and not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe
> the KGBA member should encourage a start of another organization
> that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with issues like
> these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
> are silenced in some ways.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: qumran_israel
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
> As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
> We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset
> and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of
> the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name,
> specifically from the KGBA website.
>
> If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue
> of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my time
> and troubles associated with my name being obtained and exploited
> the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple digits+
> attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent casualty of
> a new program so now I would like clarification on this critical
> issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information
> for registration.
>
> Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
> Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
> 503c= government bondage
> non 503c=freedom
>
> These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
> Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
> Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/20/2009 5:03:33 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bergener@... writes:

are you  sure we're a 501(c)(3) and not a 501(c)(4)?


Our  annual information from the State of WA identifies us as a  simple
"Nonprofit Organization", which I suspect might be the  501(c)(4).



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Informing, not political activism, is what the KGBA has  tried to
accomplish - that is its responsibility to the membershsip. The  KGBA and the
Kinders
won't survive to focus upon unless we keep ourselves  informed. Heads in
the sand doesn't make unpleasant things go away, but  individuals  do always
have the right to ignore whatever they choose. An  individual has asked a
simple question - what is the KGBA's stand on NAIS?  Courtesy tells us that the
answer to give is that we once made a public  statement that the
Association did not support NAIS in any way. Serious question  - simple answer,
but
the responses here make one wonder if the KGBA's answer is  still valid?
Having a solid answer to any question is hardly 'concentrating  the KGBA on it'.

Pat


In a message dated 11/20/2009 9:50:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
hodges.jan@... writes:

It  really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to  have
a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there  must be more
than one of those already.  Maybe it would make  sense for people to
be involved with those.  It would almost  certainly be more effective
than concentrating the KGBA on  it.

I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the  goats.
For me it is all about the goats.

It is after  all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.

Jan

On Nov 20, 2009,  at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:

> What good is it to belong to an  organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support  it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal  issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;)   My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and  that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members  rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the  effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> --  Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From:  allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser  not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual  members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009  16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re:  [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several  months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being  against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when  officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in  effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that  is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA  Treasurer
>
>   ----- Original Message  -----
>   From: qumran_israel
>   To:  KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, November 19,  2009 8:27 AM
>   Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS
>
>
>
>   To the new KGBA Board  including President Sue,
>
>   As I weigh renewing my  KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of  NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or  group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that  the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If  one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
>  given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration  with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires  constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming  activity.
>
>   We have begun a debtor nation your farm  is considered both an
> asset and infrastructure if you  volunteer. I would like to be a
> part of the Association but  have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> name, specifically from  the KGBA website.
>
>   If the new KGBA chooses to  remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> issue of NAIS, I would  appreciate considerable compensation for my
> time and troubles  associated with my name being obtained and
> exploited the  Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> digits+  attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
>  casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> information for registration.
>
>   Ah yes, we  are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a  firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless  they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation,  has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue.  Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who  favors government regulation and the other who protects the
>  privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?
>
>   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS  compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c  organizations are.
>
>   503c= government  bondage
>   non 503c=freedom
>
>   These  days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take  a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
>  there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you  have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply.  You are
> merely a revenue source to  milked.
>
>   Please new Board answer my question. A  week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so  I know you *see* this request.
>
>   Thank you in  advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.
>
>
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>    No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database:  270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09  07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have  been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this  message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

An even better one: _www.naisstinks.com_ (http://www.naisstinks.com)


In a message dated 11/20/2009 11:19:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
misanoel@... writes:




For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization  headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his  website
at _http://www.nonais.http_ (http://www.nonais.org/)

When/if  NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice
about our  membership info being provided to the government. IMO, we can't
expect the  KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS  program is still "voluntary"
(at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want  my personal info
"volunteered" without my permission.

While I don't  advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no
reason why our  organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's
considered to be)  couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired,
will be honored  until such time that the government requires disclosure of
membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political
activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons. For example,
I know of someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a
meat  and dairy farm. Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid
being  stalked by a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I  see no need for members' names, addresses,
phone numbers, and email addresses  to be broadcast over the internet
without permission. And, unless required by  law, I likewise see no reason to
hand over personal info to the  government.

Just my two  cents.
Lisa

________________________________
From:  "_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) "
<_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) >
To:  _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Sent:  Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An  organization
does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be  wise and
not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member  should
encourage a start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby  and get
involved with issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for
profit org because they are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney  <_spiritual_xtc@spiritual_ (mailto:spiritual_xtc@...) >
Date:  Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <_KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization  that doesn't share it's
members beliefs or support it's members best  interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm  glad I'm not an
officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's  members and
that the organization will stand up for itself and it's members  rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to  make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09,  _allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto
:allsberryfamily@...)   <_allsberryfamily@allsberry_
(mailto:allsberryfamily@...)
>  wrote:

From: _allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...)
<_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to  make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act  independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my  BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <_edro@..._ (mailto:edro@...) >
Date: Thu,  19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <_KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago  the KGBA voted and made a public
statement of being against NAIS?

Just  so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
change, which  new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public  statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA  Treasurer

----- Original Message -----
From: qumran_israel
To:  _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

As I weigh  renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the  KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either
for NAIS or  against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that
might be a  reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our
private  information will be given to the Ag Department and each person's
private  property will be provided a Premises identification and animal
registration  with country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
monitoring  and reports on your farming activity.

We have begun a debtor nation  your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I  would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag  getting my name, specifically from the
KGBA website.

If the new KGBA  chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of
NAIS, I would appreciate  considerable compensation for my time and troubles
associated with my name  being obtained and exploited the Department's of
Agriculture. I have spent  triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before
I
was an innocent  casualty of a new program so now I would like
clarification on this critical  issue before I turn over any of my or my goats
private
information for  registration.

Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where  their was once a
firm position by the KGBA to protect members information  unless they
volunteered their data for data mining and exploitation, has been  replaced by a
stony wall of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs  to divide into
two camps: one who favors government regulation and the other  who protects
the privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?

Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern  brown
shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.

503c= government  bondage
non 503c=freedom

These days you can't have your cake and eat  it too. If we do not take a
stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag  issues out there it will be
to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to  play by the new
international rules. And believe me, if you have looked at  them them there is
no way
that you can comply. You are merely a revenue source  to milked.

Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there  was a flurry
of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this  request.

Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.

----------------------------------------------------------

No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

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------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

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------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, I hadn't seen this site before.

Lisa




________________________________
From: "KinderZed@..." <KinderZed@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 3:20:11 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS


An even better one: _www.naisstinks. com_ (http://www.naisstinks.com)


In a message dated 11/20/2009 11:19:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
misanoel@yahoo. com writes:

For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization  headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his  website
at _http://www.nonais. http_ (http://www.nonais. org/)

When/if  NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice
about our  membership info being provided to the government. IMO, we can't
expect the  KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS  program is still "voluntary"
(at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want  my personal info
"volunteered" without my permission.

While I don't  advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no
reason why our  organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's
considered to be)  couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired,
will be honored  until such time that the government requires disclosure of
membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political
activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons. For example,
I know of someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a
meat  and dairy farm. Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid
being  stalked by a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I  see no need for members' names, addresses,
phone numbers, and email addresses  to be broadcast over the internet
without permission. And, unless required by  law, I likewise see no reason to
hand over personal info to the  government.

Just my two  cents.
Lisa

____________ _________ _________ __
From:  "_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) "
<_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) >
To:  _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Sent:  Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An  organization
does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be  wise and
not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member  should
encourage a start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby  and get
involved with issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for
profit org because they are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney  <_spiritual_ xtc@spiritual_ (mailto:spiritual_xtc@ yahoo.com) >
Date:  Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <_KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization  that doesn't share it's
members beliefs or support it's members best  interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm  glad I'm not an
officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's  members and
that the organization will stand up for itself and it's members  rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to  make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09,  _allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto
:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)   <_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_
(mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)
>  wrote:

From: _allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)
<_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to  make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act  independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my  BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <_edro@cvalley. edr_ (mailto:edro@cvalley. net) >
Date: Thu,  19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <_KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago  the KGBA voted and made a public
statement of being against NAIS?

Just  so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
change, which  new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public  statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA  Treasurer

----- Original Message -----
From: qumran_israel
To:  _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

As I weigh  renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the  KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either
for NAIS or  against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that
might be a  reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our
private  information will be given to the Ag Department and each person's
private  property will be provided a Premises identification and animal
registration  with country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
monitoring  and reports on your farming activity.

We have begun a debtor nation  your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I  would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag  getting my name, specifically from the
KGBA website.

If the new KGBA  chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of
NAIS, I would appreciate  considerable compensation for my time and troubles
associated with my name  being obtained and exploited the Department's of
Agriculture. I have spent  triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before
I
was an innocent  casualty of a new program so now I would like
clarification on this critical  issue before I turn over any of my or my goats
private
information for  registration.

Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where  their was once a
firm position by the KGBA to protect members information  unless they
volunteered their data for data mining and exploitation, has been  replaced by a
stony wall of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs  to divide into
two camps: one who favors government regulation and the other  who protects
the privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?

Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern  brown
shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.

503c= government  bondage
non 503c=freedom

These days you can't have your cake and eat  it too. If we do not take a
stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag  issues out there it will be
to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to  play by the new
international rules. And believe me, if you have looked at  them them there is
no way
that you can comply. You are merely a revenue source  to milked.

Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there  was a flurry
of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this  request.

Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Show Wethers -  2
> March - 1, May - 1.
>
> 3 New Ones - Born late October of 2009.  Will dehorn soon.
> One big red one, One Red Paint and One Traditional.
>
> Boer Bucks:  Registered Fullblood/Registered Purebreds.
>
> 3 Commercial Boer Bucks.
>
> Nice Registerable Fullblood Boer Bucklings - Born in April of 2009 - 2,
> and 2 born in Late October of 2009.   All Traditionals.
>
> One Outstanding Registered Purebred Nubian Buckling left!!
>
> 2 Nice Pygmy Kids - Caramel Buckling and a solid Black Doeling!
>
> Email:   RockingWGoats@...
>
> Call:   512 754-0041 Home
>          OR  512 665-0663 Cell
>
> Website:   http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
> Thank You!!
>
> Marita Wittkopp
> Rocking W Goats Ranch
> Kyle/San Marcos, Texas
> RockingWGoats@...
> http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
>

Hi all,

I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and have
always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events and sport a No
NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose should be to "Promote the
Goat". The KGBA association has made it clear in its newsletters that it is
opposed to NAIS and so have all the other goat associations that I belong to but
these associations main purpose is to promote their breed to the public.  There
are many active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and suggest that those
who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with some members that this
is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an issue of politics and their
political beliefs. KBGA is not a political organization.  It should not become
one.  There are many political parties out there to promote political agendas
and beliefs so again, join one. Goats don't join political parties so let's not
make our own political party preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA.  NAIS
will have economic impact on goat producers for no practical reason and I
strongly oppose it on those grounds.

I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site other than
the Breeders list of those who choose to be there.  The membership list should
be private, sent to members only as I stated in a previous post I made on the
subject a while back.  For those of you who want to remain completely under the
radar as far as membership goes, ask that your info not be put on any published
members list.

I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members informed
on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or all their efforts
to it.  We need to put our efforts into promoting the Kinder breed and helping
the new breeders with information or soon there will not be a Kinder breed to
promote.

Jean






--- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com, Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
>
> It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there must be more
> than one of those already.  Maybe it would make sense for people to
> be involved with those.  It would almost certainly be more effective
> than concentrating the KGBA on it.
>
> I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> For me it is all about the goats.
>
> It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
>
> Jan
>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
>
> > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> >
> > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> > not an officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> > it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> > it's members rights.o
> >
> > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > world a better place.
> >
> > -- Rodney
> >
> > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> > <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> >
> > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> >
> > Hello,
> > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > public statement of being against NAIS?
> >
> > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> > change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> >
> > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > Sincerely,
> > Ramona
> > KGBA Treasurer
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: qumran_israel
> >   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> >   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> >
> >
> >
> >   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> >
> >   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> >
> >   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> > name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> >
> >   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> > issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> > time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> > exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> > critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> > information for registration.
> >
> >   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> >
> >   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> >
> >   503c= government bondage
> >   non 503c=freedom
> >
> >   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > merely a revenue source to milked.
> >
> >   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> >
> >   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Very well said.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "jeanj_97526" <grayjranch@...>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:20:02
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [KinderGoats] Re: NAIS


Hi all,

I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and have
always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events and sport a No
NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose should be to "Promote the
Goat". The KGBA association has made it clear in its newsletters that it is
opposed to NAIS and so have all the other goat associations that I belong to but
these associations main purpose is to promote their breed to the public.  There
are many active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and suggest that those
who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with some members that this
is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an issue of politics and their
political beliefs. KBGA is not a political organization.  It should not become
one.  There are many political parties out there to promote political agendas
and beliefs so again, join one. Goats don't join political parties so let's not
make our own political party preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA.  NAIS
will have economic impact on goat producers for no practical reason and I
strongly oppose it on those grounds.

I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site other than
the Breeders list of those who choose to be there.  The membership list should
be private, sent to members only as I stated in a previous post I made on the
subject a while back.  For those of you who want to remain completely under the
radar as far as membership goes, ask that your info not be put on any published
members list.

I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members informed
on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or all their efforts
to it.  We need to put our efforts into promoting the Kinder breed and helping
the new breeders with information or soon there will not be a Kinder breed to
promote.

Jean






--- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com, Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
>
> It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there must be more
> than one of those already.  Maybe it would make sense for people to
> be involved with those.  It would almost certainly be more effective
> than concentrating the KGBA on it.
>
> I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> For me it is all about the goats.
>
> It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
>
> Jan
>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
>
> > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> >
> > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> > not an officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> > it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> > it's members rights.o
> >
> > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > world a better place.
> >
> > -- Rodney
> >
> > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> > <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> >
> > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> >
> > Hello,
> > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > public statement of being against NAIS?
> >
> > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> > change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> >
> > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > Sincerely,
> > Ramona
> > KGBA Treasurer
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: qumran_israel
> >   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> >   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> >
> >
> >
> >   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> >
> >   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> >
> >   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> > name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> >
> >   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> > issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> > time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> > exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> > critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> > information for registration.
> >
> >   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> >
> >   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> >
> >   503c= government bondage
> >   non 503c=freedom
> >
> >   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > merely a revenue source to milked.
> >
> >   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> >
> >   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jean, Lisa and All,

I also agree that the KGBA should promote the Kinder goat and that the
newsletter should be balanced  (with info on news that impacts Kinder owners
including but not limited to NAIS) and privacy provided should one prefer that
for personal reason.

HOWEVER!

NAIS is a goat issue.  NAIS is also an animal issue.

Case in point.

Premises Identification:  If you have potential to earn $1000 from your property
it is to be registered and issued an identification number.  All goat owners
have potential to $1000 so you are at risk.

An Electronic Animal Identification is the second step of NAIS.  As the name
clearly states ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION.  A Kinder goat certainly qualifies as an
animal.  This particular identification has been scientifically linked with
cancer so Kinder goats are at risk for associated health problems including
death.  That certainly is a risk.

Animal Tracking, surveillance, tracing whatever you want to call it DEMANDS you
report animal movement to the government and additional provisions .  The Kinder
goat is, once again, an animal therefore subject to this regulation.

Ah, but some members feel this is political issue <scratching my head>!  I ask
those specific members:  NAME THE PARTY.  Is NAIS Republican or Democrat?  Or
Libertarian?  Democratic, socialist, or fascist? I really want to know the
political party responsible because when I get my hands on them I will ring
their necks.

NAIS is not a political party.

NAIS is not an agenda.

NAIS is not a belief.

NAIS is not a conspiracy theory.

To folks new to Kinders and old

NAIS IS A REGULATION, one tool in a large toolkit.

IT TELLS YOU WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO WITH YOUR PROPERTY, NAMELY SAID: KINDER
GOAT.

The economic impact of this REGULATION is so minor that it was discussed only
within the last few years.  The real issue is YOUR RIGHT TO OWN PROPERTY AND DO
WITH IT AS YOU SEE FIT.  This insidious regulation begins with your chattel
property (goat) and ends up robbing you of your freedom.

A agree NAIS is not practical and is a redundant system.

My concern as a potential Kinder Association member is that I need absolute
proof my information is confidential, not someone's word, but an absolute
guarantee.  I enjoy Kinder goats and have raised them for many, many years,
however my information should remain private unless I conduct a transaction
(Commerce) or a REAL health issue arises.  If members choose to provide their
person information for possible exploitation it is their choice but I do not
want the KGBA to make that decision for me.

As a Kinder owner I operate under the Constitution and Bill of Rights which
affords me certain unalienable rights including my absolute right in property
(to own my Kinder) and take care of them on my terms, not the Agencies.

We do folks new to the Kinder a disservice when we provide them with lies, if we
sell them a Kinder and tell them their life will be nothing but rose petals. 
(Psst, don't tell them about the thorns of regulations (Dept of Ag) or they
might not buy).

By burying heads in the sand you become an Agency statistic called:   CRITICAL
MASS.  They need you to keep your heads in the sand so they can continue their
long awaited march to ban property ownership.

Think it isn't so?  Read the documents.

Bottom line:  Is the KGBA abandoning the Constitution and Rule of Law to bow
down to the Agency?  Some recent emails seem to indicate that position.

That is why I am asking for each Board members position on NAIS, not a blanket
past statement, but each current position statement for my files.  I do with
with each business I patronize also. And I do hold peoples toes to the fire if
they stray from their position.

Why do I take such a strong position?  Not only for my freedom, but for yours
also.  And to support those who have sacrificed their time & talents, families,
their farms, to fight for your farms.

Jean, thank you for putting into words so elequently what many of us
believe.  We know many goat breeders are against NAIS for the reasons you
noted, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should keep the politics out of
our purpose of promoting Kinders and goats in general.  This group is
well-meaning and fair, so I would say to others - please post in the spirit
this group was intended for, and thank you for taking the political issues
elsewhere.

Deb
Oakland, OR

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:20 AM, jeanj_97526 <grayjranch@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and have
> always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events and sport a
> No NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose should be to "Promote
> the Goat". The KGBA association has made it clear in its newsletters that it
> is opposed to NAIS and so have all the other goat associations that I belong
> to but these associations main purpose is to promote their breed to the
> public. There are many active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and
> suggest that those who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with
> some members that this is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an
> issue of politics and their political beliefs. KBGA is not a political
> organization. It should not become one. There are many political parties out
> there to promote political agendas and beliefs so again, join one. Goats
> don't join political parties so let's not make our own political party
> preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA. NAIS will have economic impact on
> goat producers for no practical reason and I strongly oppose it on those
> grounds.
>
> I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site other
> than the Breeders list of those who choose to be there. The membership list
> should be private, sent to members only as I stated in a previous post I
> made on the subject a while back. For those of you who want to remain
> completely under the radar as far as membership goes, ask that your info not
> be put on any published members list.
>
> I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members
> informed on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or all
> their efforts to it. We need to put our efforts into promoting the Kinder
> breed and helping the new breeders with information or soon there will not
> be a Kinder breed to promote.
>
> Jean
>
> --- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan
> Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
> >
> > It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> > not about political activism. Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> > a separate organization to fight NAIS? I'm sure there must be more
> > than one of those already. Maybe it would make sense for people to
> > be involved with those. It would almost certainly be more effective
> > than concentrating the KGBA on it.
> >
> > I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> > For me it is all about the goats.
> >
> > It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
> >
> > > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> > >
> > > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> > > not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> > > it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> > > it's members rights.o
> > >
> > > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > > world a better place.
> > >
> > > -- Rodney
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> > > <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> > >
> > > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > > public statement of being against NAIS?
> > >
> > > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> > > change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> > >
> > > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Ramona
> > > KGBA Treasurer
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: qumran_israel
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> > > Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> > >
> > > As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> > >
> > > We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> > > name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> > >
> > > If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> > > issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> > > time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> > > exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> > > critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> > > information for registration.
> > >
> > > Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> > >
> > > Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> > >
> > > 503c= government bondage
> > > non 503c=freedom
> > >
> > > These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > > merely a revenue source to milked.
> > >
> > > Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Again, very well said.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: D Ezzati <dezzati@...>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:08:12
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] Re: NAIS

Jean, thank you for putting into words so elequently what many of us
believe.  We know many goat breeders are against NAIS for the reasons you
noted, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should keep the politics out of
our purpose of promoting Kinders and goats in general.  This group is
well-meaning and fair, so I would say to others - please post in the spirit
this group was intended for, and thank you for taking the political issues
elsewhere.

Deb
Oakland, OR

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:20 AM, jeanj_97526 <grayjranch@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and have
> always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events and sport a
> No NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose should be to "Promote
> the Goat". The KGBA association has made it clear in its newsletters that it
> is opposed to NAIS and so have all the other goat associations that I belong
> to but these associations main purpose is to promote their breed to the
> public. There are many active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and
> suggest that those who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with
> some members that this is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an
> issue of politics and their political beliefs. KBGA is not a political
> organization. It should not become one. There are many political parties out
> there to promote political agendas and beliefs so again, join one. Goats
> don't join political parties so let's not make our own political party
> preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA. NAIS will have economic impact on
> goat producers for no practical reason and I strongly oppose it on those
> grounds.
>
> I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site other
> than the Breeders list of those who choose to be there. The membership list
> should be private, sent to members only as I stated in a previous post I
> made on the subject a while back. For those of you who want to remain
> completely under the radar as far as membership goes, ask that your info not
> be put on any published members list.
>
> I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members
> informed on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or all
> their efforts to it. We need to put our efforts into promoting the Kinder
> breed and helping the new breeders with information or soon there will not
> be a Kinder breed to promote.
>
> Jean
>
> --- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan
> Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
> >
> > It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> > not about political activism. Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> > a separate organization to fight NAIS? I'm sure there must be more
> > than one of those already. Maybe it would make sense for people to
> > be involved with those. It would almost certainly be more effective
> > than concentrating the KGBA on it.
> >
> > I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> > For me it is all about the goats.
> >
> > It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
> >
> > > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> > >
> > > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> > > not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> > > it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> > > it's members rights.o
> > >
> > > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > > world a better place.
> > >
> > > -- Rodney
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> > > <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> > >
> > > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > > public statement of being against NAIS?
> > >
> > > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> > > change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> > >
> > > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Ramona
> > > KGBA Treasurer
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: qumran_israel
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> > > Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> > >
> > > As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> > >
> > > We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> > > name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> > >
> > > If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> > > issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> > > time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> > > exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> > > critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> > > information for registration.
> > >
> > > Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> > >
> > > Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> > >
> > > 503c= government bondage
> > > non 503c=freedom
> > >
> > > These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > > merely a revenue source to milked.
> > >
> > > Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Greetings All Kinder Lovers!

I am sorry that this has turned into such an issue with privacy concerns, NAIS
issues, etc.  This was, of course, not my original intent and I think that
perhaps that the original concern has been forgotten.

What I wanted to know was:

Does anyone have some ideas to share on how to make it easier for Kinder lovers
to connect?

May original request involved the idea that I live in Oregon, on the lonely
coast, and to my knowledge there is only one other Kinder goat person here in
the state!  (Deb is working towards the goal of Kinder ownership this spring). 
Jean, the other Oregon Kinder person, has been very helpful to me, but she is
over 5 hours away.  The next nearest Kinders are in Snohomish, WA, which is ~ 7
hours away; and they too have been very helpful - as have you all...just to
clarify!

What I was hoping to accomplish with my questions was to pursue and hopefully
establish a way for information to be shared on who has animals for sale, who
has bucks that are available for breeding, who has working set-ups for our
animals that might be willing to show off what they have accomplished and share
what works and what you would do differently???

If we are supposed to research breed lines - milk lines - genetics, etc. for who
we should be breeding our animals too - how can we do it if everyone is
anonymous?  My example:  I have Glory who needs to be bred, but Pat suggested
that I find a good buck that comes with a family history of strong udders and
good milk producers.  The reason?  While Glory is from one of Pat's best milkers
and her teats are wonderful to work with, her front udder attachments are a
little weak and I need to breed her to a buck that has all the good udder and
milk lines in his genetics to correct this problem in any of Glory's future
doelings.  Also, that I should plan on wethering the bucklings so this weakness
is not passed on.

I was hoping for a resource that would allow us to connect to each other.  To
help each other.  To be able to offer animals for sale, breeding services,
equipment sales, and events, etc.  If an online member list is concerning to a
majority of the membership and there are concerns that the list cannot be
protected enough with online security protocols, then for Pete's sake let's not
do it!  I know there is a way, because I use various websites that only approved
members can access the "Members Only" area; I don't have the technical expertise
to help in this area though.

Question:  Could a member list be created and then maintained by each year's
elected officers?  That way when "Suzie" in Oregon wants/needs help,
information, animal services she can connect with other Oregon Kinder lovers. 
When "Alice" in Arkansas needs the same - she too can connect with Kinder
lover's in Arkansas.  I hope you are getting my idea.  The officers would have
the list and could provide the member in need with the information requested.  I
did try asking about local resources and Jean did reply.  I have since come to
learn that there are at least three other KGBA members here in Oregon - and they
did not respond.  Maybe they are not on the yahoo group and didn't see my
request or maybe they don't want to be contacted - who knows?

Kinder lovers - we need to fix this concern if we are truly going to promote and
make the Kinder goat population grow!

How can we promote the Kinder breed if we are all in hiding?  Are we as a group
now saying we can never show our animals in 4-H or other animal events for fear
that the NAIS will find us?

Do I think we should ignore them and hope that NAIS or any other government
entity will just go away?  They won't, but that will entail political activism -
but there are groups for this and those that are politically savvy should go for
it and let those of us who aren't know how we can help (if we so choose).

I agree that the NAIS is just one more invasion of my rights as an American
citizen to keep and maintain my properties.  Another way to tax me, take my
stuff and control my life....and I too would love to be in line to throttle the
powers that ought not to be!  If you have issue with these type of regulations
then we all need to pay attention to who we are voting for into government
offices.

And finally, if any one of us is naive enough to think that our information is
private, inaccessible even if we "fly under the radar" - then you are seriously
in trouble because the shocking wake up call that will come to you will be
devastating.  If you are a "person of record" - born here, became a citizen
here, attended school here (even home school - we have to register), vote, own
property, register a car, have a driver's license, work, etc....

                 Your information is quite accessible by any government
entity...any time it meets "their" need.  One of daughters is an intelligence
analyst with the military.  Her security clearance is high enough that before
she could receive it -                   we, her family, had to be interviewed
in OUR home by the FBI and our private information had already been scrutinized
for criminal records, banking info, tax info, etc.

If the government wants your info...they have it...and they don't and won't ask.

So - can we get back to the original quest please?  How do we help each other
and our beloved Kinder population grow?

Blessings
Sherri in Oregon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri,

I understand your concerns and have the same problems to deal with.  I
have other breeders close to me, but it quickly becomes a problem of
breeding lines being too close, etc.  If everyone gave permission for
their information to be listed on the breeders list, that would help.
I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
talk.  So pick up the phone!  I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
works.  If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
don't list themselves on the breeders' list.  Mailing out a list of
members annually would help too.  I've raised poultry and found the
APA listings very helpful.  Nothing beats calling people.

Karin Bergener
bergener@...




On Nov 21, 2009, at 11:19 PM, Sheryl A. Ewen wrote:

> Greetings All Kinder Lovers!
>
> I am sorry that this has turned into such an issue with privacy
> concerns, NAIS issues, etc. This was, of course, not my original
> intent and I think that perhaps that the original concern has been
> forgotten.
>
> What I wanted to know was:
>
> Does anyone have some ideas to share on how to make it easier for
> Kinder lovers to connect?
>
> May original request involved the idea that I live in Oregon, on the
> lonely coast, and to my knowledge there is only one other Kinder
> goat person here in the state! (Deb is working towards the goal of
> Kinder ownership this spring). Jean, the other Oregon Kinder person,
> has been very helpful to me, but she is over 5 hours away. The next
> nearest Kinders are in Snohomish, WA, which is ~ 7 hours away; and
> they too have been very helpful - as have you all...just to clarify!
>
> What I was hoping to accomplish with my questions was to pursue and
> hopefully establish a way for information to be shared on who has
> animals for sale, who has bucks that are available for breeding, who
> has working set-ups for our animals that might be willing to show
> off what they have accomplished and share what works and what you
> would do differently???
>
> If we are supposed to research breed lines - milk lines - genetics,
> etc. for who we should be breeding our animals too - how can we do
> it if everyone is anonymous? My example: I have Glory who needs to
> be bred, but Pat suggested that I find a good buck that comes with a
> family history of strong udders and good milk producers. The reason?
> While Glory is from one of Pat's best milkers and her teats are
> wonderful to work with, her front udder attachments are a little
> weak and I need to breed her to a buck that has all the good udder
> and milk lines in his genetics to correct this problem in any of
> Glory's future doelings. Also, that I should plan on wethering the
> bucklings so this weakness is not passed on.
>
> I was hoping for a resource that would allow us to connect to each
> other. To help each other. To be able to offer animals for sale,
> breeding services, equipment sales, and events, etc. If an online
> member list is concerning to a majority of the membership and there
> are concerns that the list cannot be protected enough with online
> security protocols, then for Pete's sake let's not do it! I know
> there is a way, because I use various websites that only approved
> members can access the "Members Only" area; I don't have the
> technical expertise to help in this area though.
>
> Question: Could a member list be created and then maintained by each
> year's elected officers? That way when "Suzie" in Oregon wants/needs
> help, information, animal services she can connect with other Oregon
> Kinder lovers. When "Alice" in Arkansas needs the same - she too can
> connect with Kinder lover's in Arkansas. I hope you are getting my
> idea. The officers would have the list and could provide the member
> in need with the information requested. I did try asking about local
> resources and Jean did reply. I have since come to learn that there
> are at least three other KGBA members here in Oregon - and they did
> not respond. Maybe they are not on the yahoo group and didn't see my
> request or maybe they don't want to be contacted - who knows?
>
> Kinder lovers - we need to fix this concern if we are truly going to
> promote and make the Kinder goat population grow!
>
> How can we promote the Kinder breed if we are all in hiding? Are we
> as a group now saying we can never show our animals in 4-H or other
> animal events for fear that the NAIS will find us?
>
> Do I think we should ignore them and hope that NAIS or any other
> government entity will just go away? They won't, but that will
> entail political activism - but there are groups for this and those
> that are politically savvy should go for it and let those of us who
> aren't know how we can help (if we so choose).
>
> I agree that the NAIS is just one more invasion of my rights as an
> American citizen to keep and maintain my properties. Another way to
> tax me, take my stuff and control my life....and I too would love to
> be in line to throttle the powers that ought not to be! If you have
> issue with these type of regulations then we all need to pay
> attention to who we are voting for into government offices.
>
> And finally, if any one of us is naive enough to think that our
> information is private, inaccessible even if we "fly under the
> radar" - then you are seriously in trouble because the shocking wake
> up call that will come to you will be devastating. If you are a
> "person of record" - born here, became a citizen here, attended
> school here (even home school - we have to register), vote, own
> property, register a car, have a driver's license, work, etc....
>
> Your information is quite accessible by any government entity...any
> time it meets "their" need. One of daughters is an intelligence
> analyst with the military. Her security clearance is high enough
> that before she could receive it - we, her family, had to be
> interviewed in OUR home by the FBI and our private information had
> already been scrutinized for criminal records, banking info, tax
> info, etc.
>
> If the government wants your info...they have it...and they don't
> and won't ask.
>
> So - can we get back to the original quest please? How do we help
> each other and our beloved Kinder population grow?
>
> Blessings
> Sherri in Oregon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent idea, but it seems like this still requires a membership
list.  I am thinking now that I don't actually KNOW that I am the
only kinder breeder in New Mexico (and Colorado and Arizona - anyone
out there?).  Maybe it just seems that way.

Jan

On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Karin Bergener wrote:

> Sherri,
>
> I understand your concerns and have the same problems to deal with.  I
> have other breeders close to me, but it quickly becomes a problem of
> breeding lines being too close, etc.  If everyone gave permission for
> their information to be listed on the breeders list, that would help.
> I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
> Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
> talk.  So pick up the phone!  I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
> works.  If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
> don't list themselves on the breeders' list.  Mailing out a list of
> members annually would help too.  I've raised poultry and found the
> APA listings very helpful.  Nothing beats calling people.
>
> Karin Bergener
> bergener@...
>

All I did was send an email to the KBGA email and ask to be listed on
the website.  LOL, I've got my address and phone number posted all
over the web, due to working against NAIS, so there's no worries for
me!  I'm not afraid.  If someone messes with me, I'll deal with them!
I'm sure they could just list you and your phone number, or an email
address, if that's what you want.


Karin Bergener
bergener@...






On Nov 22, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Jan Hodges wrote:

> Excellent idea, but it seems like this still requires a membership
> list. I am thinking now that I don't actually KNOW that I am the
> only kinder breeder in New Mexico (and Colorado and Arizona - anyone
> out there?). Maybe it just seems that way.
>
> Jan
>
> On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Karin Bergener wrote:
>
> > Sherri,
> >
> > I understand your concerns and have the same problems to deal
> with. I
> > have other breeders close to me, but it quickly becomes a problem of
> > breeding lines being too close, etc. If everyone gave permission for
> > their information to be listed on the breeders list, that would
> help.
> > I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
> > Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
> > talk. So pick up the phone! I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
> > works. If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
> > don't list themselves on the breeders' list. Mailing out a list of
> > members annually would help too. I've raised poultry and found the
> > APA listings very helpful. Nothing beats calling people.
> >
> > Karin Bergener
> > bergener@...
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri - Thank you for summarizing your original intent for information.
Though not a member of KGBA, I subscribed to the yahoo group to start
getting my ducks in a row.
We recently purchased 3 acres & will be moving back to the country after
a 5 yr hiatus, as soon as we get a house built. (I'll bet you'll all
understand how much I miss my chickens, goats, ducks, garden, etc., etc.)

I've determined that Kinders are what I really, really, want this time
around, but it does appear it is going to be a journey to find them.
  From the way things look, once we are set, if & when I do find someone
interested in parting with a couple of does, that will only be the first
obstacle.  Knowing I will not be able to keep a buck & distances
involved with breeding will prove to be the second.  For this reason,
though I will be an unhappy camper, I'm beginning to think I may not be
able to keep Kinders, after all.  Our previous "operation" was simply 2
Togs kept for milk.  SE South Dakota appears to be a long, long way from
any Kinder breeders.
Kim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kim,

I do know that there is a breeder in the Billings/Bozeman Montana area.  I saw a
listing on craigslist.com a while back and it did say that there aren't a lot of
Kinder breeders in Montana either; I have seen two different listings on
craigslist for Kinders in Montana.  We are originally from Montana - we have
been in Oregon for 29 years though but Montana will always be "home".

Congratulations on your return to the country!  We are praying for this to
become a reality for us as we are both "ranch/farm kids" stuck in town for the
last 32 years because of my husbands previous occupation; we had to be 15
minutes from the ambulance quarters at all times.
I read every page of our city ordinances and did it again and then called City
Hall to confirm that the ordinances allow for "livestock" within the city
limits.  So for now we have 5 Kinders (our first Oregon Funny Farm kid will be
born within the next two weeks!!!), 8 Welsh Harlequin ducks, and a bunch of
chickens, including a trio of Buckeyes!  We are so blessed to do this in town.

Blessings
Sherri in Oregon

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kim Strating
   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:13 PM
   Subject: [KinderGoats] Re:My original question - again



   Sherri - Thank you for summarizing your original intent for information.
   Though not a member of KGBA, I subscribed to the yahoo group to start
   getting my ducks in a row.
   We recently purchased 3 acres & will be moving back to the country after
   a 5 yr hiatus, as soon as we get a house built. (I'll bet you'll all
   understand how much I miss my chickens, goats, ducks, garden, etc., etc.)

   I've determined that Kinders are what I really, really, want this time
   around, but it does appear it is going to be a journey to find them.
   From the way things look, once we are set, if & when I do find someone
   interested in parting with a couple of does, that will only be the first
   obstacle. Knowing I will not be able to keep a buck & distances
   involved with breeding will prove to be the second. For this reason,
   though I will be an unhappy camper, I'm beginning to think I may not be
   able to keep Kinders, after all. Our previous "operation" was simply 2
   Togs kept for milk. SE South Dakota appears to be a long, long way from
   any Kinder breeders.
   Kim

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those who want to add their name and contact info there is a data base open
to members of the group.  Go to the yahoo kindergroup homepage 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/KinderGoats and log in with your yahoo
password.  To the left there is a box and Messages, files, photo, links,
database are choices.  Click on the database and it is there with several
members already listed

Jean

--- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com, Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent idea, but it seems like this still requires a membership
> list.  I am thinking now that I don't actually KNOW that I am the
> only kinder breeder in New Mexico (and Colorado and Arizona - anyone
> out there?).  Maybe it just seems that way.
>
> Jan
>
> On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Karin Bergener wrote:
>
> > Sherri,
> >
> > I understand your concerns and have the same problems to deal with.  I
> > have other breeders close to me, but it quickly becomes a problem of
> > breeding lines being too close, etc.  If everyone gave permission for
> > their information to be listed on the breeders list, that would help.
> > I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
> > Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
> > talk.  So pick up the phone!  I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
> > works.  If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
> > don't list themselves on the breeders' list.  Mailing out a list of
> > members annually would help too.  I've raised poultry and found the
> > APA listings very helpful.  Nothing beats calling people.
> >
> > Karin Bergener
> > bergener@...
> >
>

Hi Karin

Thanks for the encouragement.  I would ask that you clarify though...

When  you said the following:

"I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
  Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
  talk.  So pick up the phone!  I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
  works.  If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
  don't list themselves on the breeders' list."

Were you calling people that you know have Kinder goats or just goats in
general?
I am new enough to goats - period - that I could count the number of people
I actually
know who raise any kind of goats on five or six fingers.  I do plan on
stopping by the
extension office to see about a 4-H "goat club" as my grand daughter wants
to show our
Kinders off.

The lack of knowing Kinder people personally beyond "Pat, Barb, Georgene,
and emailing with Jean
and Deb" is one of the reasons that prompted my original question.

I will gladly pick up the phone and do some calling - I just don't know who
to call!  Now it seems I
am struggling to recreate any resources that I had after a total computer
(laptop) crash...it is all gone;
addresses, phone numbers, web sites, etc.  I just "gotta" learn how to use
one of those "stick things"!

Blessings
Sherri



----- Original Message -----
From: "Karin Bergener" <bergener@...>
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] My original question - again


> Sherri,
>
> I understand your concerns and have the same problems to deal with.  I
> have other breeders close to me, but it quickly becomes a problem of
> breeding lines being too close, etc.  If everyone gave permission for
> their information to be listed on the breeders list, that would help.
> I also found, in briefly calling around for a doe recently, that
> Kinder breeders were very approachable and helpful, and willing to
> talk.  So pick up the phone!  I know it's old fashioned, but it sure
> works.  If you talk with people, they may connect you to people who
> don't list themselves on the breeders' list.  Mailing out a list of
> members annually would help too.  I've raised poultry and found the
> APA listings very helpful.  Nothing beats calling people.
>
> Karin Bergener
> bergener@...
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2009, at 11:19 PM, Sheryl A. Ewen wrote:
>
>> Greetings All Kinder Lovers!
>>
>> I am sorry that this has turned into such an issue with privacy
>> concerns, NAIS issues, etc. This was, of course, not my original
>> intent and I think that perhaps that the original concern has been
>> forgotten.
>>
>> What I wanted to know was:
>>
>> Does anyone have some ideas to share on how to make it easier for
>> Kinder lovers to connect?
>>
>> May original request involved the idea that I live in Oregon, on the
>> lonely coast, and to my knowledge there is only one other Kinder
>> goat person here in the state! (Deb is working towards the goal of
>> Kinder ownership this spring). Jean, the other Oregon Kinder person,
>> has been very helpful to me, but she is over 5 hours away. The next
>> nearest Kinders are in Snohomish, WA, which is ~ 7 hours away; and
>> they too have been very helpful - as have you all...just to clarify!
>>
>> What I was hoping to accomplish with my questions was to pursue and
>> hopefully establish a way for information to be shared on who has
>> animals for sale, who has bucks that are available for breeding, who
>> has working set-ups for our animals that might be willing to show
>> off what they have accomplished and share what works and what you
>> would do differently???
>>
>> If we are supposed to research breed lines - milk lines - genetics,
>> etc. for who we should be breeding our animals too - how can we do
>> it if everyone is anonymous? My example: I have Glory who needs to
>> be bred, but Pat suggested that I find a good buck that comes with a
>> family history of strong udders and good milk producers. The reason?
>> While Glory is from one of Pat's best milkers and her teats are
>> wonderful to work with, her front udder attachments are a little
>> weak and I need to breed her to a buck that has all the good udder
>> and milk lines in his genetics to correct this problem in any of
>> Glory's future doelings. Also, that I should plan on wethering the
>> bucklings so this weakness is not passed on.
>>
>> I was hoping for a resource that would allow us to connect to each
>> other. To help each other. To be able to offer animals for sale,
>> breeding services, equipment sales, and events, etc. If an online
>> member list is concerning to a majority of the membership and there
>> are concerns that the list cannot be protected enough with online
>> security protocols, then for Pete's sake let's not do it! I know
>> there is a way, because I use various websites that only approved
>> members can access the "Members Only" area; I don't have the
>> technical expertise to help in this area though.
>>
>> Question: Could a member list be created and then maintained by each
>> year's elected officers? That way when "Suzie" in Oregon wants/needs
>> help, information, animal services she can connect with other Oregon
>> Kinder lovers. When "Alice" in Arkansas needs the same - she too can
>> connect with Kinder lover's in Arkansas. I hope you are getting my
>> idea. The officers would have the list and could provide the member
>> in need with the information requested. I did try asking about local
>> resources and Jean did reply. I have since come to learn that there
>> are at least three other KGBA members here in Oregon - and they did
>> not respond. Maybe they are not on the yahoo group and didn't see my
>> request or maybe they don't want to be contacted - who knows?
>>
>> Kinder lovers - we need to fix this concern if we are truly going to
>> promote and make the Kinder goat population grow!
>>
>> How can we promote the Kinder breed if we are all in hiding? Are we
>> as a group now saying we can never show our animals in 4-H or other
>> animal events for fear that the NAIS will find us?
>>
>> Do I think we should ignore them and hope that NAIS or any other
>> government entity will just go away? They won't, but that will
>> entail political activism - but there are groups for this and those
>> that are politically savvy should go for it and let those of us who
>> aren't know how we can help (if we so choose).
>>
>> I agree that the NAIS is just one more invasion of my rights as an
>> American citizen to keep and maintain my properties. Another way to
>> tax me, take my stuff and control my life....and I too would love to
>> be in line to throttle the powers that ought not to be! If you have
>> issue with these type of regulations then we all need to pay
>> attention to who we are voting for into government offices.
>>
>> And finally, if any one of us is naive enough to think that our
>> information is private, inaccessible even if we "fly under the
>> radar" - then you are seriously in trouble because the shocking wake
>> up call that will come to you will be devastating. If you are a
>> "person of record" - born here, became a citizen here, attended
>> school here (even home school - we have to register), vote, own
>> property, register a car, have a driver's license, work, etc....
>>
>> Your information is quite accessible by any government entity...any
>> time it meets "their" need. One of daughters is an intelligence
>> analyst with the military. Her security clearance is high enough
>> that before she could receive it - we, her family, had to be
>> interviewed in OUR home by the FBI and our private information had
>> already been scrutinized for criminal records, banking info, tax
>> info, etc.
>>
>> If the government wants your info...they have it...and they don't
>> and won't ask.
>>
>> So - can we get back to the original quest please? How do we help
>> each other and our beloved Kinder population grow?
>>
>> Blessings
>> Sherri in Oregon
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Deb,

I wrote you privately regarding the email on Tuesday on kinders breeders in
the Mololla area but it bounced back

I will try again later to send it and if not, I will just post it to the
list.

Jean

-----Original Message-----
From: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of D Ezzati
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:08 PM
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] Re: NAIS


Jean, thank you for putting into words so elequently what many of us
believe.  We know many goat breeders are against NAIS for the reasons you
noted, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should keep the politics out of
our purpose of promoting Kinders and goats in general.  This group is
well-meaning and fair, so I would say to others - please post in the spirit
this group was intended for, and thank you for taking the political issues
elsewhere.

Deb
Oakland, OR

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:20 AM, jeanj_97526 <grayjranch@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and
> have always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events
> and sport a No NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose
> should be to "Promote the Goat". The KGBA association has made it
> clear in its newsletters that it is opposed to NAIS and so have all
> the other goat associations that I belong to but these associations
> main purpose is to promote their breed to the public. There are many
> active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and suggest that
> those who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with some
> members that this is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an
> issue of politics and their political beliefs. KBGA is not a political
> organization. It should not become one. There are many political
> parties out there to promote political agendas and beliefs so again,
> join one. Goats don't join political parties so let's not make our own
> political party preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA. NAIS will
> have economic impact on goat producers for no practical reason and I
> strongly oppose it on those grounds.
>
> I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site
> other than the Breeders list of those who choose to be there. The
> membership list should be private, sent to members only as I stated in
> a previous post I made on the subject a while back. For those of you
> who want to remain completely under the radar as far as membership
> goes, ask that your info not be put on any published members list.
>
> I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members
> informed on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or
> all their efforts to it. We need to put our efforts into promoting the
> Kinder breed and helping the new breeders with information or soon
> there will not be a Kinder breed to promote.
>
> Jean
>
> --- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...> wrote:
> >
> > It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> > not about political activism. Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> > a separate organization to fight NAIS? I'm sure there must be more
> > than one of those already. Maybe it would make sense for people to
> > be involved with those. It would almost certainly be more effective
> > than concentrating the KGBA on it.
> >
> > I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> > For me it is all about the goats.
> >
> > It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
> >
> > > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> > >
> > > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad
> > > I'm not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice
> > > of it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself
> > > and it's members rights.o
> > >
> > > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > > world a better place.
> > >
> > > -- Rodney
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> > >
> > > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently. Sent on
> > > the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > > public statement of being against NAIS?
> > >
> > > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the
> > > KGBA change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> > >
> > > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > > Sincerely, Ramona
> > > KGBA Treasurer
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: qumran_israel
> > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> > > Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> > >
> > > As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> > >
> > > We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting
> > > my name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> > >
> > > If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue
> > > of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my time
> > > and troubles associated with my name being obtained and exploited
> > > the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on
> > > this critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats
> > > private information for registration.
> > >
> > > Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> > >
> > > Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> > >
> > > 503c= government bondage
> > > non 503c=freedom
> > >
> > > These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > > merely a revenue source to milked.
> > >
> > > Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

*New* Kinder Board Members and Kinder owners on this forum,

I am really saddened by several communications, and the lack thereof, from new
Board members and Kinder Association members.

In renewing my membership I simply wanted to verify:

1.  The position of the Board individually, and corporately, on the issue of
NAIS.  Not a past position statement because as with Board changes, so do
policies. (Despite the disinformation of Ramona indicated in her Nov. 19 email.)

2.  That it would be possible to keep my information confidential unless I
engaged in commerce or a health issue arose.

3.  That the herd book would not be turned over to anyone, including government
officials, unless a *valid warrant subjected to valid scientific evidence* was
issued (not the sort of the global warming type scam) was issued so that our
herds remain intact.

What have I received?

Silence and 'herd' grouping crying 'NAIS is political and taboo. With the
exception of  one forum email from Ramona with inaccuracies.  Not one person
weighing-in addressed the basic 5 *W's* on how NAIS is political (who, what,
where, when & why) is NAIS considered by the Kinder Board & Members as political
in nature.  Yet there is a chorus of "NAIS is political".  Nobody elaborates. 
Why has NAIS become a taboo topic?

Rather I am told to go elsewhere, this forum or that website, but stay far from
the Kinder Association.  My heart is with the Kinder and has been for many
years.

Deb below says this is a "fair and well-meaning group" but as a possible member
that has not been my experience.  I would hope that the KGBA would appreciate
all people interested and raising the Kinder, and who are willing to give their
time & talents to others.


For instance, Sherri you are going to go to the Extension Office to ask about
forming a 4 H "goat club".  Who is going to tell you that the Extension office
will encourage you to begin a 4H goat club and they get $10 a head for every
person's contact info they turn over to the government to be signed up for NAIS.
And that when you are signed up with NAIS the government holds first position on
your land title?  Will all the taboo NAIS people share that information with
her?  This is one of the many hazards and risks of a new goat owner.  We, as
ones who have raised Kinders for years should be educating.

Has the KGBA become, or about to become, a good ol 'boys' club, instead of a
education tool for all?  Food for thought.  Each and everyone of us has been
shunned by that type of attitude in our lives.  Remember how it felt?  You might
leave golden nuggets of Kinder info in the dust if you become an exclusive
association by adhering,  strict and enforced taboos.





--- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com, D Ezzati <dezzati@...> wrote:
>
> Jean, thank you for putting into words so elequently what many of us
> believe.  We know many goat breeders are against NAIS for the reasons you
> noted, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should keep the politics out of
> our purpose of promoting Kinders and goats in general.  This group is
> well-meaning and fair, so I would say to others - please post in the spirit
> this group was intended for, and thank you for taking the political issues
> elsewhere.
>
> Deb
> Oakland, OR
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:20 AM, jeanj_97526 <grayjranch@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I agree with Jan completely. While I do not like the idea of NAIS and have
> > always had information against NAIS at my booth at goat events and sport a
> > No NAIS bumper sticker, I feel that the KGBA purpose should be to "Promote
> > the Goat". The KGBA association has made it clear in its newsletters that it
> > is opposed to NAIS and so have all the other goat associations that I belong
> > to but these associations main purpose is to promote their breed to the
> > public. There are many active groups out there to join that are NO NAIS and
> > suggest that those who want to work in that direction join one. I feel with
> > some members that this is not actually a goat or animal issue at all but an
> > issue of politics and their political beliefs. KBGA is not a political
> > organization. It should not become one. There are many political parties out
> > there to promote political agendas and beliefs so again, join one. Goats
> > don't join political parties so let's not make our own political party
> > preferences and beliefs part of the KGBA. NAIS will have economic impact on
> > goat producers for no practical reason and I strongly oppose it on those
> > grounds.
> >
> > I do feel that no member information should be put on the web site other
> > than the Breeders list of those who choose to be there. The membership list
> > should be private, sent to members only as I stated in a previous post I
> > made on the subject a while back. For those of you who want to remain
> > completely under the radar as far as membership goes, ask that your info not
> > be put on any published members list.
> >
> > I feel that the association should, and want them to, keep the members
> > informed on NAIS but should not dedicate the whole newsletter to it or all
> > their efforts to it. We need to put our efforts into promoting the Kinder
> > breed and helping the new breeders with information or soon there will not
> > be a Kinder breed to promote.
> >
> > Jean
> >
> > --- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan
> > Hodges <hodges.jan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
> > > not about political activism. Maybe it would be a good idea to have
> > > a separate organization to fight NAIS? I'm sure there must be more
> > > than one of those already. Maybe it would make sense for people to
> > > be involved with those. It would almost certainly be more effective
> > > than concentrating the KGBA on it.
> > >
> > > I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
> > > For me it is all about the goats.
> > >
> > > It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:
> > >
> > > > What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> > > > it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
> > > >
> > > > Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> > > > not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> > > > it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> > > > it's members rights.o
> > > >
> > > > I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> > > > world a better place.
> > > >
> > > > -- Rodney
> > > >
> > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@
> > > > <allsberryfamily@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: allsberryfamily@ <allsberryfamily@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> > > >
> > > > I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> > > > KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> > > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@>
> > > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> > > > To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > > Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> > > > public statement of being against NAIS?
> > > >
> > > > Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> > > > change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
> > > >
> > > > I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Ramona
> > > > KGBA Treasurer
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: qumran_israel
> > > > To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com <KinderGoats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> > > > Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
> > > >
> > > > As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> > > > want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> > > > position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> > > > person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> > > > that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> > > > If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> > > > given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> > > > be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> > > > country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> > > > monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
> > > >
> > > > We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> > > > asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> > > > part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> > > > name, specifically from the KGBA website.
> > > >
> > > > If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> > > > issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> > > > time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> > > > exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> > > > digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> > > > casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> > > > critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> > > > information for registration.
> > > >
> > > > Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> > > > once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> > > > unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> > > > exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> > > > issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> > > > who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> > > > privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
> > > >
> > > > Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> > > > brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
> > > >
> > > > 503c= government bondage
> > > > non 503c=freedom
> > > >
> > > > These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> > > > take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> > > > there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> > > > play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> > > > looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> > > > merely a revenue source to milked.
> > > >
> > > > Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> > > > flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> > > > 11/19/09 07:51:00
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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