Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
KinderGoats · Kinder Goat
  • Members Only
  • Post
  • Files
  • Photos
  • Links
  • Database
  • Polls
  • Members
  • Calendar
  • Promote
  • Groups Labs (Beta)
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

   Messages Help
Message #
Search:
Advanced
Messages 5368 - 5397 of 5419   Newest  |  < Newer  |  Older >  |  Oldest
Messages: Show Message Summaries   (Group by Topic) Sort by Date v  
#5397 From: Marita <RockingWGoats@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:58 am
Subject: Re: Goats For Sale! 		rockingwgoats
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Show Wethers -  2
> March - 1, May - 1.
>
> 3 New Ones - Born late October of 2009.  Will dehorn soon.
> One big red one, One Red Paint and One Traditional.
>
> Boer Bucks:  Registered Fullblood/Registered Purebreds.
>
> 3 Commercial Boer Bucks.
>
> Nice Registerable Fullblood Boer Bucklings - Born in April of 2009 - 2,
> and 2 born in Late October of 2009.   All Traditionals.
>
> One Outstanding Registered Purebred Nubian Buckling left!!
>
> 2 Nice Pygmy Kids - Caramel Buckling and a solid Black Doeling!
>
> Email:   RockingWGoats@...
>
> Call:   512 754-0041 Home
>          OR  512 665-0663 Cell
>
> Website:   http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
> Thank You!!
>
> Marita Wittkopp
> Rocking W Goats Ranch
> Kyle/San Marcos, Texas
> RockingWGoats@...
> http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5396 From: lisa naumann <misanoel@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:32 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		misanoel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Thanks, I hadn't seen this site before.

Lisa




________________________________
From: "KinderZed@..." <KinderZed@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 3:20:11 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS


An even better one: _www.naisstinks. com_ (http://www.naisstinks.com)


In a message dated 11/20/2009 11:19:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
misanoel@yahoo. com writes:

For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization  headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his  website
at _http://www.nonais. http_ (http://www.nonais. org/)

When/if  NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice
about our  membership info being provided to the government. IMO, we can't
expect the  KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS  program is still "voluntary"
(at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want  my personal info
"volunteered" without my permission.

While I don't  advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no
reason why our  organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's
considered to be)  couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired,
will be honored  until such time that the government requires disclosure of
membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political
activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons. For example,
I know of someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a
meat  and dairy farm. Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid
being  stalked by a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I  see no need for members' names, addresses,
phone numbers, and email addresses  to be broadcast over the internet
without permission. And, unless required by  law, I likewise see no reason to
hand over personal info to the  government.

Just my two  cents.
Lisa

____________ _________ _________ __
From:  "_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) "
<_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) >
To:  _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Sent:  Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An  organization
does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be  wise and
not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member  should
encourage a start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby  and get
involved with issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for
profit org because they are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney  <_spiritual_ xtc@spiritual_ (mailto:spiritual_xtc@ yahoo.com) >
Date:  Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <_KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization  that doesn't share it's
members beliefs or support it's members best  interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm  glad I'm not an
officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's  members and
that the organization will stand up for itself and it's members  rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to  make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09,  _allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto
:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)   <_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_
(mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)
>  wrote:

From: _allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com)
<_allsberryfamily@ allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@ yahoo.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to  make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act  independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my  BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <_edro@cvalley. edr_ (mailto:edro@cvalley. net) >
Date: Thu,  19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <_KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago  the KGBA voted and made a public
statement of being against NAIS?

Just  so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
change, which  new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public  statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA  Treasurer

----- Original Message -----
From: qumran_israel
To:  _KinderGoats@ KinderGoats@ Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@ yahoogroups. com)
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

As I weigh  renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the  KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either
for NAIS or  against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that
might be a  reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our
private  information will be given to the Ag Department and each person's
private  property will be provided a Premises identification and animal
registration  with country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
monitoring  and reports on your farming activity.

We have begun a debtor nation  your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I  would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag  getting my name, specifically from the
KGBA website.

If the new KGBA  chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of
NAIS, I would appreciate  considerable compensation for my time and troubles
associated with my name  being obtained and exploited the Department's of
Agriculture. I have spent  triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before
I
was an innocent  casualty of a new program so now I would like
clarification on this critical  issue before I turn over any of my or my goats
private
information for  registration.

Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where  their was once a
firm position by the KGBA to protect members information  unless they
volunteered their data for data mining and exploitation, has been  replaced by a
stony wall of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs  to divide into
two camps: one who favors government regulation and the other  who protects
the privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?

Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern  brown
shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.

503c= government  bondage
non 503c=freedom

These days you can't have your cake and eat  it too. If we do not take a
stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag  issues out there it will be
to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to  play by the new
international rules. And believe me, if you have looked at  them them there is
no way
that you can comply. You are merely a revenue source  to milked.

Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there  was a flurry
of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this  request.

Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5395 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
An even better one: _www.naisstinks.com_ (http://www.naisstinks.com)


In a message dated 11/20/2009 11:19:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
misanoel@... writes:




For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization  headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his  website
at _http://www.nonais.http_ (http://www.nonais.org/)

When/if  NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice
about our  membership info being provided to the government. IMO, we can't
expect the  KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS  program is still "voluntary"
(at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want  my personal info
"volunteered" without my permission.

While I don't  advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no
reason why our  organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's
considered to be)  couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired,
will be honored  until such time that the government requires disclosure of
membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political
activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons. For example,
I know of someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a
meat  and dairy farm. Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid
being  stalked by a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I  see no need for members' names, addresses,
phone numbers, and email addresses  to be broadcast over the internet
without permission. And, unless required by  law, I likewise see no reason to
hand over personal info to the  government.

Just my two  cents.
Lisa

________________________________
From:  "_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) "
<_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) >
To:  _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Sent:  Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An  organization
does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be  wise and
not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member  should
encourage a start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby  and get
involved with issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for
profit org because they are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney  <_spiritual_xtc@spiritual_ (mailto:spiritual_xtc@...) >
Date:  Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <_KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization  that doesn't share it's
members beliefs or support it's members best  interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm  glad I'm not an
officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's  members and
that the organization will stand up for itself and it's members  rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to  make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09,  _allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto
:allsberryfamily@...)   <_allsberryfamily@allsberry_
(mailto:allsberryfamily@...)
>  wrote:

From: _allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...)
<_allsberryfamily@allsberry_ (mailto:allsberryfamily@...) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to  make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act  independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my  BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <_edro@..._ (mailto:edro@...) >
Date: Thu,  19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <_KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com) >
Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago  the KGBA voted and made a public
statement of being against NAIS?

Just  so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
change, which  new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public  statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA  Treasurer

----- Original Message -----
From: qumran_israel
To:  _KinderGoats@KinderGoats@Kin_ (mailto:KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS

To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

As I weigh  renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the  KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either
for NAIS or  against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that
might be a  reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our
private  information will be given to the Ag Department and each person's
private  property will be provided a Premises identification and animal
registration  with country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
monitoring  and reports on your farming activity.

We have begun a debtor nation  your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I  would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag  getting my name, specifically from the
KGBA website.

If the new KGBA  chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of
NAIS, I would appreciate  considerable compensation for my time and troubles
associated with my name  being obtained and exploited the Department's of
Agriculture. I have spent  triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before
I
was an innocent  casualty of a new program so now I would like
clarification on this critical  issue before I turn over any of my or my goats
private
information for  registration.

Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where  their was once a
firm position by the KGBA to protect members information  unless they
volunteered their data for data mining and exploitation, has been  replaced by a
stony wall of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs  to divide into
two camps: one who favors government regulation and the other  who protects
the privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?

Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern  brown
shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.

503c= government  bondage
non 503c=freedom

These days you can't have your cake and eat  it too. If we do not take a
stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag  issues out there it will be
to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to  play by the new
international rules. And believe me, if you have looked at  them them there is
no way
that you can comply. You are merely a revenue source  to milked.

Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there  was a flurry
of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this  request.

Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.

----------------------------------------------------------

No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5394 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Informing, not political activism, is what the KGBA has  tried to
accomplish - that is its responsibility to the membershsip. The  KGBA and the
Kinders
won't survive to focus upon unless we keep ourselves  informed. Heads in
the sand doesn't make unpleasant things go away, but  individuals  do always
have the right to ignore whatever they choose. An  individual has asked a
simple question - what is the KGBA's stand on NAIS?  Courtesy tells us that the
answer to give is that we once made a public  statement that the
Association did not support NAIS in any way. Serious question  - simple answer,
but
the responses here make one wonder if the KGBA's answer is  still valid?
Having a solid answer to any question is hardly 'concentrating  the KGBA on it'.

Pat


In a message dated 11/20/2009 9:50:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
hodges.jan@... writes:

It  really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to  have
a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there  must be more
than one of those already.  Maybe it would make  sense for people to
be involved with those.  It would almost  certainly be more effective
than concentrating the KGBA on  it.

I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the  goats.
For me it is all about the goats.

It is after  all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.

Jan

On Nov 20, 2009,  at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:

> What good is it to belong to an  organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support  it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal  issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;)   My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and  that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members  rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the  effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> --  Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From:  allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject:  Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date:  Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser  not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual  members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now  Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009  16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re:  [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several  months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being  against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when  officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in  effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that  is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA  Treasurer
>
>   ----- Original Message  -----
>   From: qumran_israel
>   To:  KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, November 19,  2009 8:27 AM
>   Subject: [KinderGoats]  NAIS
>
>
>
>   To the new KGBA Board  including President Sue,
>
>   As I weigh renewing my  KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor  given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of  NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or  group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that  the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If  one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
>  given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration  with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires  constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming  activity.
>
>   We have begun a debtor nation your farm  is considered both an
> asset and infrastructure if you  volunteer. I would like to be a
> part of the Association but  have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> name, specifically from  the KGBA website.
>
>   If the new KGBA chooses to  remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> issue of NAIS, I would  appreciate considerable compensation for my
> time and troubles  associated with my name being obtained and
> exploited the  Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> digits+  attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
>  casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> information for registration.
>
>   Ah yes, we  are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a  firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless  they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation,  has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue.  Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who  favors government regulation and the other who protects the
>  privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these  days?
>
>   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS  compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c  organizations are.
>
>   503c= government  bondage
>   non 503c=freedom
>
>   These  days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take  a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
>  there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you  have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply.  You are
> merely a revenue source to  milked.
>
>   Please new Board answer my question. A  week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so  I know you *see* this request.
>
>   Thank you in  advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS  issue.
>
>
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>    No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database:  270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09  07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have  been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this  message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5393 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:11 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
In a message dated 11/20/2009 5:03:33 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bergener@... writes:

are you  sure we're a 501(c)(3) and not a 501(c)(4)?


Our  annual information from the State of WA identifies us as a  simple
"Nonprofit Organization", which I suspect might be the  501(c)(4).



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5392 From: lisa naumann <misanoel@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		misanoel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Agreed.  Certainly there are those courageous souls who do want to be listed
publicly (thank goodness, or many of us probably wouldn't have been able to
locate any Kinders!)  That point of view should be accommodated as well.

I realize that having to keep track of member preferences in this regard
presents a logistical headache for the officers.  I guess the alternative is
that those who truly want anonymity can refrain from joining any breed
organizations, though that solution isn't necessarily fail-safe either.

A case in point:  Another breed organization to which I belong not only posted
every member's contact info publicly, but even listed non-members who just
happened to own registered stock.  When I posted my objection to this practice
on the members-only forum, I received no response from any of the officers. 
Though I could now withdraw my membership, it will make little difference, as
non-members are included on the public list.  Quite a mess.....

Lisa




________________________________
From: Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 2:03:35 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

No disagreement with any of that.  But it would sure be nice to have
a list of the KGBA members who are willing in hard copy, or somehow.


Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, lisa naumann wrote:

> For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization
> headed
> by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his website
> at http://www.nonais.org/
>
> When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a
> choice about our membership info being provided to the government.
> IMO, we can't expect the KGBA to break the law.
>
> But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still
> "voluntary" (at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my
> personal info "volunteered" without my permission.
>
> While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I
> see no reason why our organization (regardless of which type of non-
> profit it's considered to be) couldn't assure members that their
> anonymity, if desired, will be honored until such time that the
> government requires disclosure of membership info.
>
> An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to
> political activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of
> reasons. For example, I know of someone who has been harassed by
> PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy farm. Others may have
> personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by a
> psychopathic ex-spouse.
>
> My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names,
> addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over
> the internet without permission. And, unless required by law, I
> likewise see no reason to hand over personal info to the government.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Lisa
>
> ________________________________
> From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An
> organization does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We
> need to be wise and not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe
> the KGBA member should encourage a start of another organization
> that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with issues like
> these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
> are silenced in some ways.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: qumran_israel
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
> As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
> We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset
> and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of
> the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name,
> specifically from the KGBA website.
>
> If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue
> of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my time
> and troubles associated with my name being obtained and exploited
> the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple digits+
> attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent casualty of
> a new program so now I would like clarification on this critical
> issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information
> for registration.
>
> Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
> Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
> 503c= government bondage
> non 503c=freedom
>
> These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
> Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
> Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5391 From: Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		lissablack
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
No disagreement with any of that.  But it would sure be nice to have
a list of the KGBA members who are willing in hard copy, or somehow.


Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, lisa naumann wrote:

> For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization
> headed
> by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer. For more info, visit his website
> at http://www.nonais.org/
>
> When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a
> choice about our membership info being provided to the government.
> IMO, we can't expect the KGBA to break the law.
>
> But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still
> "voluntary" (at least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my
> personal info "volunteered" without my permission.
>
> While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I
> see no reason why our organization (regardless of which type of non-
> profit it's considered to be) couldn't assure members that their
> anonymity, if desired, will be honored until such time that the
> government requires disclosure of membership info.
>
> An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to
> political activism. Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of
> reasons. For example, I know of someone who has been harassed by
> PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy farm. Others may have
> personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by a
> psychopathic ex-spouse.
>
> My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names,
> addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over
> the internet without permission. And, unless required by law, I
> likewise see no reason to hand over personal info to the government.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Lisa
>
> ________________________________
> From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An
> organization does not do the work ultimately but its members do. We
> need to be wise and not foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe
> the KGBA member should encourage a start of another organization
> that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with issues like
> these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
> are silenced in some ways.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;) My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: qumran_israel
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
> Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
> As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
> We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset
> and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of
> the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name,
> specifically from the KGBA website.
>
> If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue
> of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my time
> and troubles associated with my name being obtained and exploited
> the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple digits+
> attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent casualty of
> a new program so now I would like clarification on this critical
> issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information
> for registration.
>
> Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
> Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
> 503c= government bondage
> non 503c=freedom
>
> These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
> Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
> Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5390 From: lisa naumann <misanoel@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		misanoel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
For those who are interested, there is an anti-NAIS organization headed
by Walter Jeffries, a Vermont farmer.  For more info, visit his website
at http://www.nonais.org/

When/if NAIS becomes mandatory, I don't think any of us will have a choice about
our membership info being provided to the government.  IMO, we can't expect the
KGBA to break the law.

But for now, while participation in the NAIS program is still "voluntary" (at
least in Missouri), I don't particularly want my personal info "volunteered"
without my permission.

While I don't advocate the KGBA engaging in political activism, I see no reason
why our organization (regardless of which type of non-profit it's considered to
be) couldn't assure members that their anonymity, if desired, will be honored
until such time that the government requires disclosure of membership info.

An assurance of privacy is not, at this point, equivalent to political activism.
Farmers can desire anonymity for all sorts of reasons.  For example, I know of
someone who has been harassed by PETA protesters for running a meat and dairy
farm.   Others may have personal reasons, like wanting to avoid being stalked by
a psychopathic ex-spouse.

My point is that, at present, I see no need for members' names, addresses, phone
numbers, and email addresses to be broadcast over the internet without
permission.  And, unless required by law, I likewise see no reason to hand over
personal info to the government.

Just my two cents.
Lisa




________________________________
From: "allsberryfamily@..." <allsberryfamily@...>
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:09:58 PM
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An organization does
not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be wise and not
foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member should encourage a
start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with
issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: qumran_israel
   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS




   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

   503c= government bondage
   non 503c=freedom

   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5389 From: James Jarrett <james.jarrett@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:41 pm
Subject: Getting started with Kinders 		ozzymanii
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hi all,

I've been lurking on the list for a few months, and have finally decided to
stick my head up.

My wife and I (we live In Albemarle, NC) and we REALLY want to get started with
Kinders.  Now, as most of you know, we have no one raising kinders near us, and
I am not all that fond of "making" our own by cross breeding.

So having said that, I am looking for a Kinder raiser/breeder that is as close
to me as I can find that would be willing to sell us:

A young, pregnant kinder doe.
A second young kinder doe.
A kinder buck other than the one that was used to freshen the first doe.

I know I will have to rent an animal trailer or some other method of transport
(right now I only have a pickup) and spend 2-3 days to make it all happen.  I'm
willing to do this, but I'm also a little hesitant.  I know that, whomever I
decide to deal with, I will be somewhat at their mercy.  I don't want to drive
8-12 hrs (or more?) one way to find that the animals I have been promised are
sickly or have other issues.

So are there any breeders out there that are within a reasonable driving
distance of Albemarle NC (28001) that have what I need and would be willing to
work with me?

If not on the list, could anyone recommend someone?

Thanks in advance.

James


All email messages sent to and from Charlotte Country Day School are archived
and may be regenerated, reviewed, or turned over to government agencies such as
law enforcement if requested.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5388 From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		allsberryfamily
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Sometimes an united individuals we can make a huge impact. An organization does
not do the work ultimately but its members do. We need to be wise and not
foolish. It could cost the org money. Maybe the KGBA member should encourage a
start of another organization that is not a 501C3 to lobby and get involved with
issues like these. I personally am not a fan of non for profit org because they
are silenced in some ways.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:06:34
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: qumran_israel
  To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
  Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS


   

  To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

  As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

  We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

  If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

  Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

  Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

  503c= government bondage
  non 503c=freedom

  These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

  Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

  Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.



 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5387 From: Jan Hodges <hodges.jan@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		lissablack
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
It really seems to me like the KGBA should be about kinder goats and
not about political activism.  Maybe it would be a good idea to have
a separate organization to fight NAIS?  I'm sure there must be more
than one of those already.  Maybe it would make sense for people to
be involved with those.  It would almost certainly be more effective
than concentrating the KGBA on it.

I am very concerned about the potential loss of focus on the goats.
For me it is all about the goats.

It is after all the Kinder Goat Breeders Association.

Jan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rodney wrote:

> What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share
> it's members beliefs or support it's members best interests?
>
> Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm
> not an officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of
> it's members and that the organization will stand up for itself and
> it's members rights.o
>
> I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our
> world a better place.
>
> -- Rodney
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@...
> <allsberryfamily@...> wrote:
>
> From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
> To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the
> KGBA. Individual members are safer to act independently.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> Hello,
> Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a
> public statement of being against NAIS?
>
> Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA
> change, which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.
>
> I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
> Sincerely,
> Ramona
> KGBA Treasurer
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: qumran_israel
>   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
>   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
>
>
>   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,
>
>   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not
> want published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the
> position of NAIS from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a
> person or group is either for NAIS or against NAIS. It was written
> that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason to be neutral.
> If one is a 503c organization then our private information will be
> given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will
> be provided a Premises identification and animal registration with
> country code, with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant
> monitoring and reports on your farming activity.
>
>   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an
> asset and infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a
> part of the Association but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my
> name, specifically from the KGBA website.
>
>   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the
> issue of NAIS, I would appreciate considerable compensation for my
> time and troubles associated with my name being obtained and
> exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I have spent triple
> digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an innocent
> casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
> critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private
> information for registration.
>
>   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was
> once a firm position by the KGBA to protect members information
> unless they volunteered their data for data mining and
> exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall of silence on the
> issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: one
> who favors government regulation and the other who protects the
> privacy of its members? Or is privacy passe these days?
>
>   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern
> brown shirt? All the other 503c organizations are.
>
>   503c= government bondage
>   non 503c=freedom
>
>   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not
> take a stand on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out
> there it will be to our breeds demise, that is, unless you want to
> play by the new international rules. And believe me, if you have
> looked at them them there is no way that you can comply. You are
> merely a revenue source to milked.
>
>   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a
> flurry of activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.
>
>   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date:
> 11/19/09 07:51:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5386 From: Rodney <spiritual_xtc@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		spiritual_xtc
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
What good is it to belong to an organization that doesn't share it's members
beliefs or support it's members best interests?

Yea, there's a ton of legal issues to consider ... and I'm glad I'm not an
officer ;)  My hope is that the KGBA will be the voice of it's members and that
the organization will stand up for itself and it's members rights.o

I want to thank everyone who is putting out the effort to make our world a
better place.

-- Rodney

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
wrote:

From: allsberryfamily@... <allsberryfamily@...>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:22 PM

I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: qumran_israel
  To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
  Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS


   

  To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

  As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

  We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

  If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

  Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

  Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

  503c= government bondage
  non 503c=freedom

  These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

  Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

  Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.



 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5385 From: Ellie Winslow <winslowellie@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:06 pm
Subject: Free Marketing Blog 		winslowellie
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Weekly articles to help you sell more animals, more products, more crafts.  When
your farm is a real business, marketing counts! 
 
http://marketingwithellie.blogspot.com/ or to get the articles in your inbox,
sign up at elliesblogupdate-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

A free service of Beyond The Sidewalk (http://beyondthesidewalk.com) and Ellie
Winslow


http://beyondthesidewalk.com
Marketing Workshops, Books, blog/free newsletter & consulting:
Growing Your Rural Business: From the Inside Out
Marketing Farm Products: and How to Thrive Beyond the Sidewalk
Economy Proofing Rural Business
Making Money With Goats





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5384 From: Karin Bergener <bergener@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		bergenerk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
501(c)(3)'s are not allowed to take political positions or  lobby.  It
would be advisable to provide information, not people's opinions on
NAIS, and let members decide.   I'm assuming everyone knows I'm
rabidly against it!  are you sure we're a 501(c)(3) and not a 501(c)(4)?

LOL< by the way, the NIAA, which is the main organizations pushing the
NAIS agenda ahead is a (3)!

Karin Bergener
bergener@...






On Nov 20, 2009, at 1:28 AM, KinderZed@... wrote:

> Our Unified Business Identifier begins with 601, not 501 - does that
> make
> a difference? We do have an obligation to our membership to inform
> them of
> what will affect them, don't we? It is really in how we do it as I
> see it.
>
> Pat
>
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2009 7:12:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> allsberryfamily@... writes:
>
> I am totally against NAIS; however, my husband is an attorney with a
> state
> and federal bar card. We have battled the freedom issues concerning
> mandatory vaccines many times which is similar to this issue of govt
> control..
>
> When you are a 501c3 org, there are rules to follow, unfortunately
> some
> rules are shades of grey. If organizations do not follow these rules
> they can
> get slapped with ethics complains, fines and court proceedings and irs
> audits. As an org we should be careful and not get ourselves in
> trouble.
>
> If you look back to the creation and original purpose of the 501c3
> was to
> silent the church. I deeply care about the KGBA and worry about
> taking this
> stand as a organization not simply as individuals.
>
> I could be wrong and hope I am.
>
> In 2003 until 2005, I was an elected official for the 2nd
> Congressional
> District and know a lot about these laws.
>
> I cherish our freedoms and hope you understand I call us to be wise,
> not
> scared or foolish, while advocating for what we oppose and support.
>
> Karla
>
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: KinderZed@...
>
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:39:06
>
> To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS
>
> It was already made official some time ago when the board put out an
>
> official anti-NAIS statement. Members and members-to-be need to be
> informed of
>
> the consequences of not taking a stand in a world where to be
> submissive
> to
>
> these kinds of rules could mean that our farms are on track to be
> crushed
>
>
> out of existence with the continual adoption of U.N. (global)
> policies.
>
> That's exactly what NAIS is part of. We all need to keep up on our
> homework.
>
> Pat
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2009 3:22:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>
> allsberryfamily@... writes:
>
> I think to would be wiser not to make this official
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5383 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:28 am
Subject: Re: NAIS 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Our Unified Business Identifier begins with 601, not 501 - does  that make
a difference? We do have an obligation to our membership to inform  them of
what will affect them, don't we? It is really in how we do it as I see  it.

Pat


In a message dated 11/19/2009 7:12:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
allsberryfamily@... writes:

I am  totally against NAIS; however, my husband is an attorney with a state
and  federal bar card. We have battled the freedom issues concerning
mandatory vaccines many times which is similar to this issue of govt  control..



When you are a 501c3 org, there are rules to follow,  unfortunately some
rules are shades of grey. If organizations do not follow  these rules they can
get slapped with ethics complains, fines and court  proceedings and irs
audits. As an org we should be careful and not  get  ourselves in trouble.



If you look back to the creation and  original purpose of the 501c3 was to
silent the church. I deeply care about  the KGBA and worry about taking this
stand as a organization not simply as  individuals.

I could be wrong and hope I am.



In 2003  until 2005, I was an elected official for the 2nd Congressional
District and  know a lot about these laws.



I cherish our freedoms and hope  you understand I call us to be wise, not
scared or foolish, while advocating  for what we oppose and support.



Karla

Sent on the  Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original  Message-----

From: KinderZed@...

Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009  21:39:06

To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re:  [KinderGoats] NAIS



It was already made official some time ago  when the board put out  an

official anti-NAIS statement. Members  and members-to-be need to be
informed of

the consequences of not  taking a stand in a world where to be  submissive
to

these kinds  of rules could mean that our farms are on track  to be crushed


out of existence with the continual adoption of U.N. (global)   policies.

That's exactly what NAIS is part of. We all need to keep up  on our
homework.



Pat





In a message  dated 11/19/2009 3:22:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

allsberryfamily@... writes:



I think  to  would be wiser not to make this official







[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]







[Non-text portions of this message  have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5382 From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:11 am
Subject: Re: NAIS 		allsberryfamily
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I am totally against NAIS; however, my husband is an attorney with a state and
federal bar card. We have battled the freedom issues concerning  mandatory
vaccines many times which is similar to this issue of govt control..

  When you are a 501c3 org, there are rules to follow, unfortunately some rules
are shades of grey. If organizations do not follow these rules they can get
slapped with ethics complains, fines and court proceedings and irs audits. As an
org we should be careful and not  get ourselves in trouble.

If you look back to the creation and original purpose of the 501c3 was to silent
the church. I deeply care about the KGBA and worry about taking this stand as a
organization not simply as individuals.
I could be wrong and hope I am.

In 2003 until 2005, I was an elected official for the 2nd Congressional District
and know a lot about these laws.

I cherish our freedoms and hope you understand I call us to be wise, not scared
or foolish, while advocating for what we oppose and support.

Karla
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: KinderZed@...
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:39:06
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

It was already made official some time ago when the board put out  an
official anti-NAIS statement. Members and members-to-be need to be  informed of
the consequences of not taking a stand in a world where to be  submissive to
these kinds of rules could mean that our farms are on track  to be crushed
out of existence with the continual adoption of U.N. (global)  policies.
That's exactly what NAIS is part of. We all need to keep up on our  homework.

Pat


In a message dated 11/19/2009 3:22:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
allsberryfamily@... writes:

I think  to would be wiser not to make this official



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5381 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
It was already made official some time ago when the board put out  an
official anti-NAIS statement. Members and members-to-be need to be  informed of
the consequences of not taking a stand in a world where to be  submissive to
these kinds of rules could mean that our farms are on track  to be crushed
out of existence with the continual adoption of U.N. (global)  policies.
That's exactly what NAIS is part of. We all need to keep up on our  homework.

Pat


In a message dated 11/19/2009 3:22:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
allsberryfamily@... writes:

I think  to would be wiser not to make this official



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5380 From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:22 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		allsberryfamily
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I think to would be wiser not to make this official and under the KGBA.
Individual members are safer to act independently.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:50:59
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] NAIS

Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: qumran_israel
   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS




   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

   503c= government bondage
   non 503c=freedom

   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5379 From: "Edro&Rama" <edro@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:50 pm
Subject: Re: NAIS 		birdsallmona
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hello,
Don't you remember several months ago the KGBA voted and made a public statement
of being against NAIS?

Just so you know - Policies do not change when officers of the KGBA change,
which new officers will be in effect Jan. 2010.

I think that a public statement is all that is necessary.
Sincerely,
Ramona
KGBA Treasurer

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: qumran_israel
   To: KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:27 AM
   Subject: [KinderGoats] NAIS




   To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

   As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want
published nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS
from the KGBA. The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for
NAIS or against NAIS. It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a
reason to be neutral. If one is a 503c organization then our private information
will be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

   We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer. I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

   If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture. I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage. Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

   Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue. Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps:
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members? Or is privacy passe these days?

   Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt?
All the other 503c organizations are.

   503c= government bondage
   non 503c=freedom

   These days you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules.
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply. You are merely a revenue source to milked.

   Please new Board answer my question. A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

   Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5378 From: "qumran_israel" <davidinthewilderness@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:27 pm
Subject: NAIS 		qumran_israel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
To the new KGBA Board including President Sue,

As I weigh renewing my KGBA membership, which by the way I do not want published
nor given to anyone, I need to get an answer on the position of NAIS from the
KGBA.  The fact of the matter is that a person or group is either for NAIS or
against NAIS.  It was written that the KGBA is a 503c and that might be a reason
to be neutral.  If one is a 503c organization then our private information will
be given to the Ag Department and each person's private property will be
provided a Premises identification and animal registration with country code,
with 24/7 surveillance that requires constant monitoring and reports on your
farming activity.

We have begun a debtor nation your farm is considered both an asset and
infrastructure if you volunteer.  I would like to be a part of the Association
but have been bite by Dept of Ag getting my name, specifically from the KGBA
website.

If the new KGBA chooses to remain 'silent or neutral' on the issue of NAIS, I
would appreciate considerable compensation for my time and troubles associated
with my name being obtained and exploited the Department's of Agriculture.  I
have spent triple digits+ attempting to undo the damage.  Before I was an
innocent casualty of a new program so now I would like clarification on this
critical issue before I turn over any of my or my goats private information for
registration.

Ah yes, we are seven years into the program, and where their was once a firm
position by the KGBA to protect members information unless they volunteered
their data for data mining and exploitation, has been replaced by a stony wall
of silence on the issue.  Maybe the Association needs to divide into two camps: 
one who favors government regulation and the other who protects the privacy of
its members?  Or is privacy passe these days?

Has the KGBA fallen into defacto NAIS compliance being a modern brown shirt? 
All the other 503c organizations are.

503c= government bondage
non 503c=freedom

These days you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If we do not take a stand
on this issue and get educated on REAL Ag issues out there it will be to our
breeds demise, that is, unless you want to play by the new international rules. 
And believe me, if you have looked at them them there is no way that you can
comply.  You are merely a revenue source to milked.

Please new Board answer my question.  A week or so ago there was a flurry of
activity on this forum so I know you *see* this request.

Thank you in advance for a simple yes or no to the NoNAIS issue.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (26)
#5377 From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) 		allsberryfamily
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
We should not is the correct sentence I meant to write. Emailing from a
blackerry is hard when you are new at it. That darn little screen.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:45:13
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [KinderGoats] The National Animal Identification System (NAIS)

As an organization I think we should offically comment on this because we are a
501c3 organization. I am just a member not an office holder.
Karla
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "qumran_israel" <davidinthewilderness@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:34:12
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [KinderGoats] The National Animal Identification System (NAIS)

Hi Y'all!

Does anyone know the new KGBA Board's position on NAIS?

Thanks!








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#5376 From: allsberryfamily@...
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:45 am
Subject: Re: The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) 		allsberryfamily
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
As an organization I think we should offically comment on this because we are a
501c3 organization. I am just a member not an office holder.
Karla
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "qumran_israel" <davidinthewilderness@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:34:12
To: <KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [KinderGoats] The National Animal Identification System (NAIS)

Hi Y'all!

Does anyone know the new KGBA Board's position on NAIS?

Thanks!








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#5375 From: "qumran_israel" <davidinthewilderness@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:34 am
Subject: The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) 		qumran_israel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hi Y'all!

Does anyone know the new KGBA Board's position on NAIS?

Thanks!

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#5374 From: Marita <RockingWGoats@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:47 pm
Subject: Goats for Sale! Boers, Nubians, Pygmys, Show Wethers! 		rockingwgoats
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Show wethers!
> 2 - Big ones left - March - 1, May -1
>
> 3 new ones - October of 2009 - will be dehorned
> One big Red One, One Paint and One Super Muscled Traditional.
>
> Boer Bucks - Registered Fullblood/Registered Purebreds;
> 3 Commercial Bucks.
>
> Nice Registerable Fullblood Boer Bucklings:  2 - April of 2009. 2 -
> Late October of 2009.  Traditionals.
>
> One Super Nice Registerable Purebred Nubian Buckling left!
>
> 2 Nice Pygmy Kids - Caramel Buckling and a solid Black Doeling.
>
> Email:   RockingWGoats@...
>
> Call:   512 754-0041 - Home
>          512 665-0663 - Cell
>
> Website:   http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
> Thank You!
>
> Marita Wittkopp
> Rocking W Goats Ranch
> Kyle/San Marcos, Texas
> RockingWGoats@...
> http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>
>
>
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5373 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:02 am
Subject: Re: Re: how to find a good pygmy buck 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
In a message dated 11/14/2009 10:34:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
shellyotterkin@... writes:




Now this may sound odd but is hockness found in Kinders. Where  there back
hocks come in towards one another.

Just as in any breed, there will be  occasional animals with hocks that
turn in a little.If you are choosing breeding  animals, that is a trait to
avoid, if possible. I have not found it to be a  common trait in the Kinder.


A  friend and I are thinking Kinders may make a great pack animal. So many
pack  breeders want these huge monster goat. I have talked to a few people
who would  like to find a smaller large bone animal that would take up less
space to  transport. But could still carry at least 40lbs each.
Kinders are muscular and quite strong for their size, and you'll  find that
various members have trained them both to pull carts, and to carry  packs.
We were once told that because the Nubian doesn't have the temperament to
be willing to be trained to work, that the Kinder would not be worthwhile
that  way either. It hasn't proven to be the case - they've done quite well
from what  I have seen, are intelligent and quick to learn, and often eager to
participate  in these kinds of activities that bring them positive attention.



If any of you would I would  love to see pics of older wethers or bucks
feet and legs also what is the  grown wt for a wether? At what age do kinders
stop growing?


The wethers that I have seen can top out at 130-170 pounds,  depending upon
how muscular they are. They are not very tall, but can be built  like
tanks! Kinders don't attain mature growth until about 3 years of age  or so.


Thank you. I wish there was a  breeder near me so I could see them in
person. I fear the first ones I will  get to see will the first gen babies that
will be in my barn.
Any breeders with photos to share along these lines, don't forget  that we
have a photo section on the Forum where they can be  posted.

Pat








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5372 From: "Shelly" <shellyotterkin@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:34 am
Subject: Re: how to find a good pygmy buck 		shellyotterkin
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Now this may sound odd but is hockness found in Kinders. Where there back hocks
come in towards one another.
A friend and I are thinking Kinders may make a great pack animal. So many pack
breeders want these huge monster goat. I have talked to a few people who would
like to find a smaller large bone animal that would take up less space to
transport. But could still carry at least 40lbs each.

If any of you would I would love to see pics of older wethers or bucks feet and
legs also what is the grown wt for a wether? At what age do kinders stop
growing?

Thank you. I wish there was a breeder near me so I could see them in person.  I
fear the first ones I will get to see will the first gen babies that will be in
my barn.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5371 From: KinderZed@...
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:11 am
Subject: Re: how to find a good pygmy buck 		patriciashow...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
In a message dated 11/13/2009 9:58:31 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
shellyotterkin@... writes:

one  75% reg grade- this one can't make registerable Kinders - she would
need to be  100%American. There is always a market for a good doe, but it is
narrowed  considerably, and prices are likely to be much lower when her  kids
cannot be registered. For instance, if someone is looking for fine  animals
for a dairy situation, they are not necessarily looking at  registration
over production. There are people just looking for a good  producer for their
family needs who don't care about marketing kids or  participating in
building the breed.
Others on this Forum may have information on good Pygmy lines within your
reach. If possible get information on the does behind him - photos of udders
and  teats could help if you can't see them in person. A good indication of
milk  production could be if the does in the background have the ability to
raise  healthy multiple kids without extra help - triplets or quads. Teat
size you need  to see, orifice size you need to experience. Fortunately, the
Nubian doe has a  lot of input too and can overcome some of what might be
lacking on the Pygmy  side. Correct conformation in any goat is important for
your breeding stock.  Common faults to be aware of in Pygmy bucks are
'posty' hind legs (too straight  from the side view, making the gait stiff and
choppy), steep rumps, splayed  toes, and loose shoulders. A good thing to do
would be to look at the Pygmy Goat  Breed Standard for some insight.

Pat


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5370 From: "Shelly" <shellyotterkin@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:07 am
Subject: Re: Koumiss or Milk Beer 		shellyotterkin
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
That was me :) it was good. Yeasty fizzy sweet milk is how it tasted.

--- In KinderGoats@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Huston" <tshuston@...> wrote:
>
> I saw this on another list. Has anyone here ever made this.
>
> 1 qt fresh warm from the goat milk
> 4 t sugar
> 1 t dry yeast( I am using good brews yeast and will be playing with dif types
)
> Let stand uncovered for 10 to 12 hours in a warm place. Then blend back anf
forth between two pitchers until smouth and a bit foamy. Then put in a jar with
a tight lid in warm place for 24 more hours. Chill and stir before serving
>
> Sue
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#5369 From: "Shelly" <shellyotterkin@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:57 am
Subject: how to find a good pygmy buck 		shellyotterkin
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hello all I have 3 really nice reg nubian does who will be ready to breed next
year. (They are to young this year) and one 75% reg grade. She is pure there was
just a reg mix up in her past.
Now what would be the best way to find a couple reg pygmy bucks who has good
milking/uder lines. I have looked around my area and have only found back yard
breeders who have never thought about milking.
Also about my grade.Is there a market for unreg. goats in the kinder world. We
want to breed for milk and meatin more of the homesteaders market and I hate not
using a doe who is as nicer or nicer then the papered ones.

Thank you.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5368 From: Marita <RockingWGoats@...>
Date: Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Late Friday Sale! Nubian Bucklings, Show Wethers, Boers and Pygmys!! 		rockingwgoats
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Take a Look at What we Have for sale!   Nice goats and good bloodlines.
>>>>
>>>> Boer Bucks/Bucklings:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Registered Fullbloods - One Paint and Two Traditional Coni's
>>>> Rebel Sons.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Registered Purebreds - One Solid Red with kids on the ground -
>>>> throws
>>>>    Color and Spots.   His Son, nice Paint Buck.
>>>>
>>>> 3. 3 Commercial Yearling Boer Bucks.
>>>>
>>>> Boer Show Wethers:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Newborn Paint and Solid Red Bucklings - Born early Wednesday
>>>> Morning - 10/21/09.
>>>         3 Traditional Bucklings - Born Oct.23, 2009!   Two are FBs,
>>> One Purebred.
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Have 3 big show wethers - dehorned and ready to go left!
>>>> March - 1, April - 1, and May - 1.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Purebred Nubian Bucklings:
>>>> One  left!!!!
>>>>
>>>>  One light tan with black highlights  and One dark Brown with black
>>>> highlights, both born in April of 2009.
>>>>
>>>> Pygmy Kids:  2 available - one caramel buckling - weaned and ready
>>>> to go.  One black doeling.
>>>> Both born in May of 2009.
>>>>
>>>> Please call 512 754-0041 or 512 665-0663.
>>>>
>>>> Email :  RockingWGoats@...
>>>     Ron Keener is coming back through Texas - 1 to 2 times on this
>>> Current Trip and could
>>> transport East or West or North.
>>>> Thank You!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marita Wittkopp
>>>> Rocking W Goats Ranch
>>>> San Marcos/Kyle, Texas
>>>> http://www.rockingwgoats.net
>>>> Home:  512 754-0041
>>>> Cell:     512  665-0663
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
Messages 5368 - 5397 of 5419   Newest  |  < Newer  |  Older >  |  Oldest
Message #
Search:
Advanced
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?
Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help