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Here is an interesting list of Bantu words for "unripe" which in my opinion support my analysis of the word for "fig" as being rooted in the concept of being "half ripe".
source - http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/bantu/word.php?v=410
| ID | Language | Nominal Prefix | Radical | Gram. | Genre | Cognacy | Annotation |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 02209. | Asu G.22 | vs | A | multiclasse | |||
| 01724. | Basaa A.43a | ∅/b- | s | N | 7, 8 | ||
| 01299. | Bemba M.42 | ʧ` | pmp | N | unripe fruit | ||
| 01300. | Bemba M.42 | N | unripe groundnuts | ||||
| 00900. | Bukusu E.31c | -s | Ad | ||||
| 00423. | Kinyamwezi F22 | βɩ̀sɩ́ | A | ||||
| 02581. | Koyo C.24 | bs | N | 7-8 | |||
| 03410. | Lega D.25 | bɩ́sɩ̀ | A | ||||
| 03035. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | ʃ | A | multiclasse | |||
| 04269. | Yao P.21 | vs | A |
You write:
"> Latvian puisis for
> boy reminds me of Latin puer, boy. "
I agree.
Take a look at this list of similar terms from the Wiktionary for the concept of "half":
We find some correlation even in Bantu terms for "young man" - source at http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/bantu/word.php?v=433 - were we find bwange, se-pela, ba-su, yes, and even perhaps a related root origin of my own name Kaulins in kau-, which in Latvian means "young bone, small bone".
| 02236. | Asu G.22 | m̀ | bwŋg | N | 3 | ||
| 01746. | Basaa A.43a | h-/d- | l"́g | N | 19, 13 | ||
| 01347. | Bemba M.42 | m | spl | N | |||
| 00925. | Bukusu E.31c | mw- | l | N | 1, 2 | ||
| 00447. | Kinyamwezi F22 | m̀/β | sʊ̀ʊ̀mb | N | 1, 2 | ||
| 02601. | Koyo C.24 | m | r | N | 1-2 | ||
| 03429. | Lega D.25 | mʊ̀- | sɩ̀kɩ̀l | N | 1, 2 | ||
| 03058. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | m | ɣnʤ` | N | 1, 2 | ||
| 03854. | Tswana S.30 | lɩ̀- | k | N | 5 |
The Bantu also may show a correlation in their terms to "give birth to", i.e. "to birth the young.:
source: http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/bantu/word.php?v=170
| 01941. | Asu G.22 | ʧ`ŋgk | V | ||||
| 01942. | Asu G.22 | mɣ | V | ||||
| 01503. | Basaa A.43a | gwl | V | ||||
| 01084. | Bemba M.42 | pp | V | ||||
| 00652. | Bukusu E.31c | l | V | ||||
| 00174. | Kinyamwezi F22 | βt | V | ||||
| 00175. | Kinyamwezi F22 | βjl | V | ||||
| 02382. | Koyo C.24 | br | V | ||||
| 03203. | Lega D.25 | bʊ́r | V | ||||
| 02803. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | ʃmprk | V | ||||
| 02804. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | vr | V | ||||
| 03601. | Tswana S.30 | bɛ̀lɛ̀χ | V |
The concept of "half" in Latvian pus- seems in origin to be connected to the Latvian concept "push-" meaning "split", i.e. the concept of "half" as derived from the splitting of something in two, i.e. a concept originally rooted in the actual PHYSICAL change or "halving" of something into two parts.
This term in Latvian for "split" is supported in Bantu words for "split, crack" . source http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/bantu/word.php?v=362
| ID | Language | Nominal Prefix | Radical | Gram. | Genre | Cognacy | Annotation |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 02155. | Asu G.22 | zr | V | ||||
| 01678. | Basaa A.43a | kn | V | ||||
| 01260. | Bemba M.42 | pnd | V | ||||
| 00850. | Bukusu E.31c | l | V | ||||
| 00376. | Kinyamwezi F22 | m̀ / m | ll | N | 3, 4 | ||
| 02540. | Koyo C.24 | ps | V | ||||
| 03366. | Lega D.25 | kk | V | ||||
| 03367. | Lega D.25 | rnd | V | to crack (e.g. a nut) | |||
| 02987. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | kŋkr | V | ||||
| 03782. | Tswana S.30 | pʰtɬʊ́l | V | ||||
| 04218. | Yao P.21 | ʧeʧenukula | V | V transitif | |||
| 04219. | Yao P.21 | gaala | V | V intransitif |
By contrast, concepts such as "large, big" and "small, little" are not fixed to some physical change, but depend on the size or appearance of the thing to be measured.
For example:
Largeness as a function of tallness or length or girth.
The Latvian root gar(s)- viz gar(sh)- viz. garin- or garum- means "tall" or "long".
In my opinion this root concept is related to e.g. German words like Gross- meaning "large, great"
or English terms like great (compare Latvian kriet- "considerable"), or girth, or grand.
This root also gave rise to all kinds of similar words meaning "large", such as found here in this list from the Wiktionary for the word "large" (see also their list for "big"):
|
|
| 03472. | Tswana S.30 | ll |
| ID | Language | Nominal Prefix | Radical | Gram. | Genre | Cognacy | Annotation |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 01791. | Asu G.22 | bh | N | ||||
| 01380. | Basaa A.43a | kɛ́ŋ | A | multiclasse | |||
| 00967. | Bemba M.42 | kl | N | ||||
| 00512. | Bukusu E.31c | ʧ`. | A | ||||
| 00038. | Kinyamwezi F22 | hɲ | A | ||||
| 02284. | Koyo C.24 | jg | A | multiclasse | |||
| 03094. | Lega D.25 | nn | A | ||||
| 02660. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | nɛ̂nɛ̀ | A | multiclasse | |||
| 03472. | Tswana S.30 | ll | A | multiclasse | tall | ||
| 03893. | Yao P.21 | klŋgw | A |
Here are terms from the Wiktionary for "small", i.e, "not large":
|
|
Here are terms from the Wiktionary for "little":
Latvian can explain some of these variants:
Terms such as Sicilian: nicu are like Latvian nieks "little, a trifle", neko "nothing" from ne-ko "not what", which derives from nekas "nothing", literally ne-kas "no thing".
Greek mikros ("micro-") and similar terms derive from an Indo-European e.g. Latvian ne-gars "not long", i.e. as a compound-form word of negation of length.
The Arabic variants of "tin"-root words for the fig tree show that it meant "small" if we use Bantu languages as evidence:
source: http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/bantu/word.php?v=346
| ID | Language | Nominal Prefix | Radical | Gram. | Genre | Cognacy | Annotation |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 02138. | Asu G.22 | dr | A | multiclasse | |||
| 01665. | Basaa A.43a | h-/d- | s | N | 19, 13 | ||
| 01245. | Bemba M.42 | ʧ`n | nn | N | |||
| 00834. | Bukusu E.31c | -tʰtʰ | A | ||||
| 00362. | Kinyamwezi F22 | d"̀"́ | A | ||||
| 02527. | Koyo C.24 | t | N | 3 | |||
| 03353. | Lega D.25 | kk | A | ||||
| 02974. | Rumanyo (Gciriku) K.38 | dd | A | ||||
| 03769. | Tswana S.30 | b"̀tɬn | A | multiclasse | |||
| 04205. | Yao P.21 | nnd | A |
Andis
--- In LexiLine@yahoogroups.com, William Glyn-Jones <wibliom@...> wrote:
>
> my reaction:
>
>
>
> Latvian puisis for
> boy reminds me of Latin puer, boy.
>
> The logic of what
> you suggest makes sense in as much as figs have long been connected
> symbolically, for obvious reasons with gonads, and because on a fig tree two
> years’ fruit are present at once, divided distinctly in to the two categories
> of big, mature, and those small, and half the age. If the Hebrew Pagi are the unripe
> figs, this would make sense. All the same, not convinced, especially about “half-grown”
> as original origin for the non-Latvian words for boy, when there are other explanations. “Small”
> seems likely in at least two of the cases sited:-
>
> Sicilian: picciriddu m. (child); picciottu m. (teenager) " these must be
> related to Italian for small, piccolo.
>
> Welsh: bachgen cy(cy) m. "boy. In Welsh, bach means small.
>
> William
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 8/10/08, Andis Kaulins a1ndiskaulins@... wrote:
> From: Andis Kaulins a1ndiskaulins@...
> Subject: [LexiLine] 26 LexiLine 2008 Origin of the word "fig"
> To: LexiLine@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, 8 October, 2008, 8:46 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 26 LexiLine 2008 Origin of the word "fig"
>
> Dear LexiLiners, (reposted - 3rd time - this is the final version)
>
> In the last posting at Lexiline , Ronit Maoz (is this you, Ronit?) asks us to comment on the question of the origin of the word "fig".
>
> The terms for "fig" in Afro-Asiatic are pretty much all variants of the completely different word "tin" - see those terms at the databases of the Tower of Babel site of Sergei Starostin.
>
> In Latvian "tin" means "to twine", i.e. hence this in our opinion originally refers to a "vine" of sorts, whence, perhaps, the Biblical phrase :
> "But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree;
> and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts
> hath spoken it."
>
> As we read at at the Israel government site for tourism :
>
> "Figs can be seen ripening under the summer sun throughout Israel , their
> distinctive aroma perfuming the air around springs and streams from
> Caesarea Philippi in the north to Ein Gedi in the south. The word fig is one of several in English that probably comes from Hebrew: paga means an unripe fig. The fruit gave its name to two villages on the Mount of Olives . One is Bethphage, Beit Pagi, which means "house of unripe figs," through which Jesus passed before the triumphal entry into Jerusalem
> (Matt. 21:1, Mark 11:1, Luke 19:29). The other is Bethany, Beit
> Te'enah, which means `house of the fig." ... Summer visitors to Israel can recall that "each man sitting under his own vine and fig tree" ... is a biblical symbol of peace." [emphasis added by LexiLine ]
>
> That alleged word origin makes sense if we examine the similar term puika in Latvian, meaning "boy", i.e. "an unripe male, a young male (in this sense)", also in the Latvian variant term puisis, with similar terms found in the following languages: Swedish: pojke sv(sv) c, Estonian poiss- , Hebrew ×`×"ור (bakhúr) m, Irish: buachaill ga(ga) m., Portuguese pequerrucho m., Sicilian: picciriddu m. (child); picciottu m. (teenager), or Welsh: bachgen cy(cy) m. - or, as noted at MacBain's Dictionary, bucach means a boy (dial.): "growing one".
>
> At some point the guttural sound at the end was lost and we got the English word boy.
>
> The oldest conceptual meaning however will be given to us by the Latvain variant of puika "boy" which is puisis. Since puse in Latvian means "half", and in Latvian pusaudzis (literally "half-grown, from pus-aug") means "adolescent" or pusaudze
> (g//dz permutation) means "youngster", we see that the Hebrew term and
> all the other Indo-European terms derive from the basic concept of
> "unripe" in the sense of "half-grown" .
> The analysis is
> eminently clear. What the mainstream linguists and etymologists have
> written about these terms is confused, incompetent babble.
> Enjoy,
>
> Andis
>
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