Hello All
          I thought I would run this idea past all you learned people!

I have a SOM 8-1 which we have used on and off for the last 34years!!!
as we live what is now called off grid.

The old girl was relegated to standby duty when we bought an ST1 3.5kw SOM in
1977 or 1978?

Which has given sterling service just rebore,valves and recon injector and pump
along with brushes and regular oil and filter changes it now has 46000hrs on the
run meter (5.25years)I wonder were the small Honda would be now?

Neither of our SOM,s has to run so often now as we have PV panels(Tracking the
sun)and 3 wind turbines charging 1120A/hr batteries at 24volt and a 2.3kva
inverter/charger.

So now the question I am about half way through giving the old girl an overhaul!
I am using a spare cylinder I had rebored 30years ago and oly used for a short
time(over oiling exhaust)my fault I think I use too good a quality oil and she
did not bed her ringings in properly I have checked the ring gaps and they are
still 12thou so just a light hone to glaze bust the bore.

I have had the valve seats recut and head face skimmed to give 55/60thou to
valve heads.

I have removed everything from the engine and cleaned all parts, I have replaced
the bronze camshaft bush and the oil seal in the pump and the operating rod, I
have also made and replaced the pivot pins in the govenor weights(they were only
soft steel)I used some silver steel for replacements(most of the slack now
removed)and a pump tappet pin made from EN16T(the proper shape)not just a dome!

I have also machined the main bearing housings to take lip type seals(2.872" x
2" x 0.375")which leaves a small shoulder for them to seat against.

Now I am starting to assemble the old girl and I was thinking about compression
ratios and bump clearances, now from reading I see the 8-1 was set at 17.5 - 1
with just a bung and no change over valve and 2 x 15thou shim or 1 x 30thou shim
under cylinder to achieve this.

I was thinking of leaving the shims out just a paper gasket(less joints to
leak)and as long as the piston is below the top of the cylinder it would be ok,
and the adjust the compression ratio by measuring the capacity at TDC through
the injector hole and either machine the bung down to adjust the ratio or space
it out with a ring and copper seals, then it would be at the optimum C/R, and it
saves have to compress the head gasket twice(not good practice with composite
gaskets)

I also am fitting a glow plug in the bung(24volt)can,t see the point of using a
12volt on a 24volt system.

I am also going to rad cool the engine(found a nice new Datsun one on ebay about
24" square and made in brass and copper (not plastic and aluminium) I have
fitted a thermostat to the head.

Sorry to go on but what do you all think?

Roger

Roger

I have used one of the composite head gaskets on a 8/1 that I am rebuilding at
the moment

I have a previously used composite head gasket that I measured the thickness of
and it measured 1.5 mm in its compressed state.

The bump clearance on a 8/1 engine is 1.9 mm to 2.03 mm so the piston is below
the top of the cylinder.

The method I used was to bolt down the cylinder block using spacers and head
nuts and the placing a steel ruler across the block and measuring the gap
underneath with a feeler gauge to the top of the piston at TDC  and then
removing gaskets from underneath to get a clearance of 0.5 mm. this worked real
well and I didn't have to torque the head down twice on the composite head
gasket.

Mick

--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "rogerguzzi2" <rogerguzzi2@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All
>          I thought I would run this idea past all you learned people!
>
> I have a SOM 8-1 which we have used on and off for the last 34years!!!
> as we live what is now called off grid.
>
> The old girl was relegated to standby duty when we bought an ST1 3.5kw SOM in
1977 or 1978?
>
> Which has given sterling service just rebore,valves and recon injector and
pump along with brushes and regular oil and filter changes it now has 46000hrs
on the run meter (5.25years)I wonder were the small Honda would be now?
>
> Neither of our SOM,s has to run so often now as we have PV panels(Tracking the
sun)and 3 wind turbines charging 1120A/hr batteries at 24volt and a 2.3kva
inverter/charger.
>
> So now the question I am about half way through giving the old girl an
overhaul! I am using a spare cylinder I had rebored 30years ago and oly used for
a short time(over oiling exhaust)my fault I think I use too good a quality oil
and she did not bed her ringings in properly I have checked the ring gaps and
they are still 12thou so just a light hone to glaze bust the bore.
>
> I have had the valve seats recut and head face skimmed to give 55/60thou to
valve heads.
>
> I have removed everything from the engine and cleaned all parts, I have
replaced the bronze camshaft bush and the oil seal in the pump and the operating
rod, I have also made and replaced the pivot pins in the govenor weights(they
were only soft steel)I used some silver steel for replacements(most of the slack
now removed)and a pump tappet pin made from EN16T(the proper shape)not just a
dome!
>
> I have also machined the main bearing housings to take lip type seals(2.872" x
2" x 0.375")which leaves a small shoulder for them to seat against.
>
> Now I am starting to assemble the old girl and I was thinking about
compression ratios and bump clearances, now from reading I see the 8-1 was set
at 17.5 - 1 with just a bung and no change over valve and 2 x 15thou shim or 1 x
30thou shim under cylinder to achieve this.
>
> I was thinking of leaving the shims out just a paper gasket(less joints to
leak)and as long as the piston is below the top of the cylinder it would be ok,
and the adjust the compression ratio by measuring the capacity at TDC through
the injector hole and either machine the bung down to adjust the ratio or space
it out with a ring and copper seals, then it would be at the optimum C/R, and it
saves have to compress the head gasket twice(not good practice with composite
gaskets)
>
> I also am fitting a glow plug in the bung(24volt)can,t see the point of using
a 12volt on a 24volt system.
>
> I am also going to rad cool the engine(found a nice new Datsun one on ebay
about 24" square and made in brass and copper (not plastic and aluminium) I have
fitted a thermostat to the head.
>
> Sorry to go on but what do you all think?
>
> Roger
>

--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "rogerguzzi2" <rogerguzzi2@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All
>          I thought I would run this idea past all you learned people!
>
> I have a SOM 8-1 which we have used on and off for the last 34years!!!
> as we live what is now called off grid.
>
> The old girl was relegated to standby duty when we bought an ST1 3.5kw SOM in
1977 or 1978?
>
> Which has given sterling service just rebore,valves and recon injector and
pump along with brushes and regular oil and filter changes it now has 46000hrs
on the run meter (5.25years)I wonder were the small Honda would be now?
>
> Neither of our SOM,s has to run so often now as we have PV panels(Tracking the
sun)and 3 wind turbines charging 1120A/hr batteries at 24volt and a 2.3kva
inverter/charger.
>
> So now the question I am about half way through giving the old girl an
overhaul! I am using a spare cylinder I had rebored 30years ago and oly used for
a short time(over oiling exhaust)my fault I think I use too good a quality oil
and she did not bed her ringings in properly I have checked the ring gaps and
they are still 12thou so just a light hone to glaze bust the bore.
>
> I have had the valve seats recut and head face skimmed to give 55/60thou to
valve heads.
>
> I have removed everything from the engine and cleaned all parts, I have
replaced the bronze camshaft bush and the oil seal in the pump and the operating
rod, I have also made and replaced the pivot pins in the govenor weights(they
were only soft steel)I used some silver steel for replacements(most of the slack
now removed)and a pump tappet pin made from EN16T(the proper shape)not just a
dome!
>
> I have also machined the main bearing housings to take lip type seals(2.872" x
2" x 0.375")which leaves a small shoulder for them to seat against.
>
> Now I am starting to assemble the old girl and I was thinking about
compression ratios and bump clearances, now from reading I see the 8-1 was set
at 17.5 - 1 with just a bung and no change over valve and 2 x 15thou shim or 1 x
30thou shim under cylinder to achieve this.
>
> I was thinking of leaving the shims out just a paper gasket(less joints to
leak)and as long as the piston is below the top of the cylinder it would be ok,
and the adjust the compression ratio by measuring the capacity at TDC through
the injector hole and either machine the bung down to adjust the ratio or space
it out with a ring and copper seals, then it would be at the optimum C/R, and it
saves have to compress the head gasket twice(not good practice with composite
gaskets)
>
> I also am fitting a glow plug in the bung(24volt)can,t see the point of using
a 12volt on a 24volt system.
>
> I am also going to rad cool the engine(found a nice new Datsun one on ebay
about 24" square and made in brass and copper (not plastic and aluminium) I have
fitted a thermostat to the head.
>
> Sorry to go on but what do you all think?
>
> Roger
>
For your glow plug, It would be a good idea to use the 24 volt, that way you
wont burn it out right away. Most systems use a resistor to cut the voltage in
half. If you decide to lower your used cylinder make shure you remove the ridge
not to break your rings (I'm shure you already knew that).

--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, nick booth <nickbooth56@...> wrote:
>
>  lads  i am removing  origonal cooling fan off cs startomatic and replacing
with electric 12v  ive brazed in a thermo switch socket in top hose casting 
what i want to know is what is best temp to run engine at   ive got several
different thermo switches out of various car rads the coolest switches on at 82
deg  is this about correct,its proberly been run for 50 years and never got up
to any proper temp ,nick
>
Run your engin as hot as possible without boiling your coolant, 211f or 99c . On
sealed pressurised systems you gain 2 deg for every 1 psi. The CS was not ment
to run under pressure and you will blow gaskets. The best thing you can do for
your engine is to keep the coolant at the same temperature without too mutch
variations. This will prevent excessive wear on your cylinder. If you use a temp
switch, use one with a verry small on off cycle.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120529269423

Hi all, I'm still looking for a 6/1, I'm located in Iowa, currently have a Field
marshall and want a back up, will look at any offers, thanks in advance. Mike

Hi all, I'm still looking for a 6/1, I'm located in Iowa, currently have a Field
marshall and want a back up, will look at any offers, thanks in advance. Mike

Can anyone help?
I have a saw bench run by a PETTER AVA1 engine.

The oil filter container and air filter are missing. Does anyone know where I am
able to get spares for this engine?
I am located in the South East of England.

Many thanks
Andy

I bought a used Honda Goldwing radiator with 12volt fan off eBay for $20 total
with shipping.  Most of the time I run the fan at about 1/4 speed and that is
enough to dump the heat.  In summer when the weather is hot I have to run the
fan at full speed but it's still enough to cool the engine.  No water pump, just
mount the radiator high enough to get good thermal flow and you'll be good to
go.

Mark


--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, Morrie Schreibman <morrie@...> wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear from people who are using radiators to cool their Lister
engines. As my planned 6/1 installation needs to be portable, it occurs to me
that I could do well without the 200 kilograms of water typically recommended
for a Listeroid's water cooling system.
>
> So I'm interested in knowing how people have enabled radiator cooling, whether
a fan is mandatory, whether anybody has used coolants in addition to pure water,
how much water/fluid is used in their system.
>
> For that matter I'm interested in knowing if anybody has ever sat down and
calculated the cooling requirements of a Lister CS engine. My sense is the
original manufacturers figured that everybody in their target market had access
to 50-gallon barrels and since a 50-gallon hopper tank was sufficient cooling
power, that's how the requirement was set.
> But does a 6hp/800rpm really need 50 gallons of water?
>
> Thanks
>

Mines not portable.  I bolted it to the floor.  It always wanted to wounder
around in the shed it lives in.

I mounted the radiator thru the wall.  In the winter the fan pulls air in and
discharges the hot air inside the building, reverse in the summer.  Someday I'll
harvest all that heat for the house.  We're planning on moving so I don't want
to go to crazy with this house just to have to pull it all out and move it.

Watched your video.  Nice work.  Nice attention to detail.  They're so pretty
when they have low hrs.  Mines all dirty and oily but it purr's like a kitten
after thousands of hours.  I, like you, have been bitten by the slow speed bug.

After seeing yours and the many others out there that are so pretty and clean
I'm embarrassed to post pics and video of mine.  Oh it works great, runs daily
but after a few years of that in a stationary situation, it gets so dirty.  At
first I tried to keep it clean.  De greased it every summer.  That bit me hard
once so that practice ended.  In a nutshell getting liquids into the jib keys
and not removing it will lead to bad things.  I mixture of oil slobber from the
exhaust during the breakin, add some 50/50 coolant 6 months later and then a bit
of degreaser and water and mix well for about 500hrs.  Jig key frees up and pops
out while engine is running.  Let the shake, rattle and roll begin.  If you ever
have that happen to your trailer mounted unit, well lets just say you better
have a remote stop because you aren't going to be able to get near it as it does
the dance of death. That was the main reason I bolted it to the floor.  Just in
case it happens again.  Man do they get out of shape when that flywheel isn't
indexed with the crank.  At least the flywheel stayed on the crank.  It was the
belt drive side flywheel so the flywheel just slowed down while the engine kept
650rpm.  Jack rabbits got nothin' on this boy. ;)  I also installed a remote
fuel shutoff.  A simple small cable on the fuel control lever that runs to the
ceiling and out of the side of the building, 90º opposed to the rotational path
of the flywheels.  If all the safeguards fail, pull the handle on the side of
the building, no more fuel.  That way there is at least a wooden wall between
the operator and the rotational dance of death.  I'm sure what happened to me is
a rare thing.  You hear about it now and then.  My biggest fear is having one of
those flywheels breakup at speed.  Again very rare BUT messy indeed if you are
the unlucky one.  It's a good idea to do a "ring test" on the flywheels now and
then.  Tap it with a hammer and listen to the ring it makes.  If one day that
ring doesn't sound quite the same, well its time to investigate why.  And then
there is that diesel run away thing.  Wonder how far those pieces of flywheel
will go after it comes apart at say 3000 rpm, ya know what I'm saying.  Wooden
walls are not going to be of much help at this point.  I'm not sure how fast you
can get one of these guys to turn.  The valve springs are so weak that its going
to go into valve float pretty quick.  But not quick enough.  I've read the
stories of people un-creating these guys and starting them without checking the
spring tension on the governor.  Those assemblers in India are a bit lazy about
reducing that tension after they do their final full load tests.  So you end up
with an un-mounted engine running around your garage floor at double rated
speed.

Thanks for the video.  Was nice to watch over the morning coffee.

Mark



--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gilbert <crash4me@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I used a John Deere 345 garden tractor radiator. However, I used the Gold
> Wing raditor neck! It is about the same size as the Gold Wing one. I've
> included my video so you can see how the radiator worked out. When I run the
> 16/1 the fan never comes on when it is cool outside. I have a 200 degree F
> switch in the water from Summit Racing to control the electric fan.
>
> Let me know if I can help. I also have all the part numbers from Car Quest
> from my generator project.
>
> Robert / crash4me@...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJLYlmWD828
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:25 AM, netquestz <markinthehills@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I bought a used Honda Goldwing radiator with 12volt fan off eBay for $20
> > total with shipping. Most of the time I run the fan at about 1/4 speed and
> > that is enough to dump the heat. In summer when the weather is hot I have to
> > run the fan at full speed but it's still enough to cool the engine. No water
> > pump, just mount the radiator high enough to get good thermal flow and
> > you'll be good to go.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com <Lister_CSOG%40yahoogroups.com>, Morrie
> > Schreibman <morrie@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd like to hear from people who are using radiators to cool their Lister
> > engines. As my planned 6/1 installation needs to be portable, it occurs to
> > me that I could do well without the 200 kilograms of water typically
> > recommended for a Listeroid's water cooling system.
> > >
> > > So I'm interested in knowing how people have enabled radiator cooling,
> > whether a fan is mandatory, whether anybody has used coolants in addition to
> > pure water, how much water/fluid is used in their system.
> > >
> > > For that matter I'm interested in knowing if anybody has ever sat down
> > and calculated the cooling requirements of a Lister CS engine. My sense is
> > the original manufacturers figured that everybody in their target market had
> > access to 50-gallon barrels and since a 50-gallon hopper tank was sufficient
> > cooling power, that's how the requirement was set.
> > > But does a 6hp/800rpm really need 50 gallons of water?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

A couple of years ago, I joined this group to get advice on buying a diesel
generator for my new workshop. Thanks to the advice here and elsewhere i found
myself a genny (1979 ST2 with a Brush genny attached) and it has been helping to
provide power ever since :-)

However, it's one of those things bought on Ebay that worked fine according to
the seller and then didn't really fulfil it's promise when it arrived :-( It
started out with problems that I've not got around to fixing but I think it's
about time that I do something before the damage is irreparable.

Things that i know to be wrong are an oil leak (generally around the head set),
compression issues (in that it has none!) and the power that comes out is all to
cock (that could be the dodgy sparky that wired it up?)

Since I'm completely inept when it comes to engines, electricity and things that
go bump in the shed, I wonder if anybody knows of an engineer in the area of
West Devon (Exeterish) who could come out and fix the old girl?

any info is VERY much appreciated!

thanks

dave

Andy,
If this item is near impossible to locate as a spare, can you fabricate a simple
plate over the area with threaded ports, and use a remote spin-on filter
instead?

How about a picture?


--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, "clubsrdv8" <andrew@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone help?
> I have a saw bench run by a PETTER AVA1 engine.
>
> The oil filter container and air filter are missing. Does anyone know where I
am able to get spares for this engine?
> I am located in the South East of England.
>
> Many thanks
> Andy
>

Hi,  You're right Exeter is East Devon. I confused myself when I wrote it! The
genny is west of Exeter in Mid Devon, Cheriton Bishop to be exact.

cheers

dave



--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, robert hobson <rnh1950a@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Where in West Devon are you.  I always thought that Exeter was E Devon.
> rob
>
>

Yes, I should get a gallery started on the group or something.  I have a ton of
pics and video that needs to get shared out.  It's always a time thing.  I'll
see what I can do.

Mark

--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gilbert <crash4me@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I would like to see photos of the Lister. Remember, my generator only has 10
> hours on it! Send me an e-mail address and I will send you photos of some of
> the features.
>
> Robert
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:18 PM, netquestz <markinthehills@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Mines not portable. I bolted it to the floor. It always wanted to wounder
> > around in the shed it lives in.
> >
> > I mounted the radiator thru the wall. In the winter the fan pulls air in
> > and discharges the hot air inside the building, reverse in the summer.
> > Someday I'll harvest all that heat for the house. We're planning on moving
> > so I don't want to go to crazy with this house just to have to pull it all
> > out and move it.
> >
> > Watched your video. Nice work. Nice attention to detail. They're so pretty
> > when they have low hrs. Mines all dirty and oily but it purr's like a kitten
> > after thousands of hours. I, like you, have been bitten by the slow speed
> > bug.
> >
> > After seeing yours and the many others out there that are so pretty and
> > clean I'm embarrassed to post pics and video of mine. Oh it works great,
> > runs daily but after a few years of that in a stationary situation, it gets
> > so dirty. At first I tried to keep it clean. De greased it every summer.
> > That bit me hard once so that practice ended. In a nutshell getting liquids
> > into the jib keys and not removing it will lead to bad things. I mixture of
> > oil slobber from the exhaust during the breakin, add some 50/50 coolant 6
> > months later and then a bit of degreaser and water and mix well for about
> > 500hrs. Jig key frees up and pops out while engine is running. Let the
> > shake, rattle and roll begin. If you ever have that happen to your trailer
> > mounted unit, well lets just say you better have a remote stop because you
> > aren't going to be able to get near it as it does the dance of death. That
> > was the main reason I bolted it to the floor. Just in case it happens again.
> > Man do they get out of shape when that flywheel isn't indexed with the
> > crank. At least the flywheel stayed on the crank. It was the belt drive side
> > flywheel so the flywheel just slowed down while the engine kept 650rpm. Jack
> > rabbits got nothin' on this boy. ;) I also installed a remote fuel shutoff.
> > A simple small cable on the fuel control lever that runs to the ceiling and
> > out of the side of the building, 90º opposed to the rotational path of the
> > flywheels. If all the safeguards fail, pull the handle on the side of the
> > building, no more fuel. That way there is at least a wooden wall between the
> > operator and the rotational dance of death. I'm sure what happened to me is
> > a rare thing. You hear about it now and then. My biggest fear is having one
> > of those flywheels breakup at speed. Again very rare BUT messy indeed if you
> > are the unlucky one. It's a good idea to do a "ring test" on the flywheels
> > now and then. Tap it with a hammer and listen to the ring it makes. If one
> > day that ring doesn't sound quite the same, well its time to investigate
> > why. And then there is that diesel run away thing. Wonder how far those
> > pieces of flywheel will go after it comes apart at say 3000 rpm, ya know
> > what I'm saying. Wooden walls are not going to be of much help at this
> > point. I'm not sure how fast you can get one of these guys to turn. The
> > valve springs are so weak that its going to go into valve float pretty
> > quick. But not quick enough. I've read the stories of people un-creating
> > these guys and starting them without checking the spring tension on the
> > governor. Those assemblers in India are a bit lazy about reducing that
> > tension after they do their final full load tests. So you end up with an
> > un-mounted engine running around your garage floor at double rated speed.
> >
> > Thanks for the video. Was nice to watch over the morning coffee.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >

BTW, I run 50/50 traditional green coolant in my system.  Total capacity on the
system and plumbing is about 10 gallons.  Mine sees COLD winters.  I was also
worried about long term corrosion issues as well.  all the reading I did
suggested that 50/50 green stuff would help that a lot.

My engine, loaded up at like 1500 watts will heat that 10 gallons to 200ºF in a
couple/three hours with no cooling fan.

My cooling system is a closed system but not pressurized (much).  The radiator
cap was removed and I fitted a tube to it and then ran that to a 1 gallon
recovery (burp) bottle mounted right next to the radiator.  That way when that
10 gallons of coolant warms up it pushes about 1/2 a gallon of coolant into the
recovery bottle, along with any air that got into the system during the last
cool down.  Since that is the highest point in the system all the air bubbles
end up there and are pushed into the recovery bottle (the tube is always under
the liquid level at the bottom of the recovery bottle).  During cool down, it
pulls all that coolant back into the system.

That coolant has been in there 3 seasons now and it looks like it just came out
of the bottle fresh.  One fill of 50/50 should last for years and protest the
engine from corrosion.  I run a 195º stat but I still see head temps over 210º
so it's getting plenty warm.

With this setup there is no possibility of over-pressurizing the system and
pushing coolant past the cylinders "O" ring into the oil sump.

And it did happen once.  Forgot to turn on the fan power and about oh 4 hours
later it was boiling pretty good BUT still running fine.  It was pushing steam
out of the recovery bottle and I did loose about a gallon of water to stream BUT
it didn't hurt anything.  That was a thousand hours ago.

Mark




> > > > --- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com
<Lister_CSOG%40yahoogroups.com><Lister_CSOG%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, Morrie
> >

> > > > > So I'm interested in knowing how people have enabled radiator
> > cooling,
> > > > whether a fan is mandatory, whether anybody has used coolants in
> > addition to
> > > > pure water, how much water/fluid is used in their system.
> > > > >
> > > > > For that matter I'm interested in knowing if anybody has ever sat
> > down
> > > > and calculated the cooling requirements of a Lister CS engine. My sense
> > is
> > > > the original manufacturers figured that everybody in their target
> > market had
> > > > access to 50-gallon barrels and since a 50-gallon hopper tank was
> > sufficient
> > > > cooling power, that's how the requirement was set.
> > > > > But does a 6hp/800rpm really need 50 gallons of water?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

Ken Boak wrote:

> The plans for this spark ignition conversion will be available soon as
> an open source resource from All Power Labs.  This will allow existing
> Listeroid users to benefit from wood gasification directly without the
> need to run a dual fuel system.



Sounds interesting. I wonder if you could keep the diesel pump working
and divert the output back to the fuel tank instead of to the injector.
That way everything remains lubricated and ready for the next run on
diesel. A 'T' fitting type valve with a high pressure rating should work
fine.

I'm looking forward to the Arduino information. Those are wonderful
little devices.





mike

Mike, List

The motivation for this spark conversion is to eliminate the need for the diesel
injection system.

A long reach spark plug is fitted into the injector aperture in the cylinder
head and held in using a similar clamp down method.

If you really wanted to dual fuel - or retain the diesel option, the spark plug
could be tapped into a modified compression change-over blanking plug.

The spark ignition circuit consisted of a Hall effect sensor to detect a timing
reference point just before top dead centre, and create a short duration pulse
via a darlington power transistor to fire off a standard car ignition coil from
a breaker's yard.

We were assessing the wood gas carb, made specially by Andy Schofield, which
could be much simplified and made from standard plumbing fittings and gate
valves.

Today, we have sunshine here in California, after yesterday's gruelling rain, so
we are going to spend a day documenting the project, getting some more video
footage and optimising the timing.  We are going to develop the Arduino code
further to allow variable advance and retard of the timing and provide a
tachometer.  An inertial dynamometer would be quite possible now that we can
measure the acceleration of the flywheels in response to a load.

We also need to make up a linkage allowing the Lister governor to control the
woodgas carb.

Working in collaboration with Jim Mason and his team at AllPower Labs, we hope
to release details of this conversion in open source as part of the GEK
(Gasifier Experimenters Kit) project.  A kit of parts allowing others to make
this unit will follow later.

Most of Saturday was spent re-manufacturing Lister head gaskets from 1/16th
copper sheet, after our supplier failed to ship in time for the weekend
workshop.  We produced a CAD drawing of the head gasket and cut it out of copper
sheet on the CNC plasma cutter.  This process just took a couple of hours
starting from scratch. The solid copper gasket was annealed with a blowtorch,
cleaned up and sealed the head joint perfectly.

The plasma cutter is an excellent low volume and prototyping tool, allowing
complex parts to be cut from sheet metal, folded if needed, and fabricated. 
Ideas conceived over breakfast can be real parts by lunchtime.



Ken

Hi,
I've made head gaskets and other metal gaskets and shims with just a caliper
using old fashioned mensuration. Have one caliper that the point has been honed
to a flat knife edge rather than a round point. It is perpendicular to the
opposite point. Use it like a guided knife. A few passes will cut through lite
shims and soft brass or aluminum. For nice round holes - rather than using a
hole punch that is so hard to properly locate - a transfer punch in the mill
spindle and a drilled hole in a piece of stock in the vice can be used to punch
holes. The point on the punch used to located the stock via the layout
intersections. Large holes cut by what ever method dictated by stock thickness
and material - even welding a band saw blade together through a drilled hole.
Saw close to the layout line and use proper file techniques or even an
ocillating spindle grinder to clean up. Sure as heck never took me a $15K
machine and a whole morning. But, sure are glad
  you guys are having fun. Would have liked to make it - even if just to watch.
Best,
Ron

--- On Mon, 2/22/10, kenboak <ken.boak@...> wrote:

> From: kenboak <ken.boak@...>
> Subject: [Lister_CSOG] Re: Listeroid 6/1 Spark Ignition Conversion runs
successfully on Woodgas!
> To: Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 10:53 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike, List
>
>
>
> The motivation for this spark conversion is to eliminate
> the need for the diesel injection system.
>
>
>
> A long reach spark plug is fitted into the injector
> aperture in the cylinder head and held in using a similar
> clamp down method.
>
>
>
> If you really wanted to dual fuel - or retain the diesel
> option, the spark plug could be tapped into a modified
> compression change-over blanking plug.
>
>
>
> The spark ignition circuit consisted of a Hall effect
> sensor to detect a timing reference point just before top
> dead centre, and create a short duration pulse via a
> darlington power transistor to fire off a standard car
> ignition coil from a breaker's yard.
>
>
>
> We were assessing the wood gas carb, made specially by Andy
> Schofield, which could be much simplified and made from
> standard plumbing fittings and gate valves.
>
>
>
> Today, we have sunshine here in California, after
> yesterday's gruelling rain, so we are going to spend a
> day documenting the project, getting some more video footage
> and optimising the timing.  We are going to develop the
> Arduino code further to allow variable advance and retard of
> the timing and provide a tachometer.  An inertial
> dynamometer would be quite possible now that we can measure
> the acceleration of the flywheels in response to a load.
>
>
>
> We also need to make up a linkage allowing the Lister
> governor to control the woodgas carb.
>
>
>
> Working in collaboration with Jim Mason and his team at
> AllPower Labs, we hope to release details of this conversion
> in open source as part of the GEK (Gasifier Experimenters
> Kit) project.  A kit of parts allowing others to make this
> unit will follow later.
>
>
>
> Most of Saturday was spent re-manufacturing Lister head
> gaskets from 1/16th copper sheet, after our supplier failed
> to ship in time for the weekend workshop.  We produced a CAD
> drawing of the head gasket and cut it out of copper sheet on
> the CNC plasma cutter.  This process just took a couple of
> hours starting from scratch. The solid copper gasket was
> annealed with a blowtorch, cleaned up and sealed the head
> joint perfectly.
>
>
>
> The plasma cutter is an excellent low volume and
> prototyping tool, allowing complex parts to be cut from
> sheet metal, folded if needed, and fabricated.  Ideas
> conceived over breakfast can be real parts by lunchtime.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Just one fuel study plot, NetquestZ 6/1 Listeroid.  I need to make time to put
some more stuff on the photos page.  Too much on my plate that needs to get done
first.  What's new. :(



--- In Lister_CSOG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gilbert <crash4me@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> Go to the Lister CS group and my photos are under Robert's Metro. Do you
> have photos in that area?
> Robert
>