Terrence,

If I can weigh in seriously here, I agree that it is odd for a developers
tool (Access) to provide "features" like this as many development
environments and tools are completely unconstrained and will let you do
whatever you like - consequences be damned. Access however had lots of built
in "features" that enhance the development and user experience for the
applications and developers for which it is designed (think about the
hourglass, it wont' automatically go away in any other development tool, you
have to explicitly command it to stop).

This control "feature" (which as I said a few minutes ago, always thought
was a bug) is simply an attempt by MS to "help" developers create better
applications. It's actually pretty well documented and lots of people agree
with you but not much to be done for it I suppose. One of the advantages of
more "advanced" stuff like SQL Server and Visual Studio/.NET is they don't
do things like this. A MAJOR disadvantage is they don't do any of the stuff
that actually is helpful.

Just my two cents.

Jesse

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:31 PM, buffalome90210 <buffalome90210@...>wrote:

>
>
> TY Uncle V.....I will however be interested to see the posts which may (or
> may not) go between you and Bill regarding this so called "feature"........
> I realize you are not Microsoft, but I would think that even you would
> consider this access/form behavior of disappearing controls to be at least
> odd and possibly Inappropriate ?
>
> Terence
>
>
> --- In
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>,
> "John Viescas" <JohnV@...> wrote:
> >
> > Terence-
> >
> > As long as the form's recordset is updatable, yes. But maybe you don't
> want
> > users to be able to actually add a record. If the controls are only to
> > display the data, consider setting the Locked property of all of them to
> > Yes.
> >
> > John Viescas, author
> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> > Building Microsoft Access Applications
> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > http://www.viescas.com/
> > (Paris, France)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> >
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\
roups.com>]
> On Behalf Of buffalome90210
> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:06 PM
> > To:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> > disappearing
> >
> > John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the
> > disappearing act will cease ?
> >
> > terence
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>,
> "John Viescas" <JohnV@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill-
> > >
> > > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not
> > allow
> > > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset
> is
> > not
> > > updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.
> > >
> > > John Viescas, author
> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications
> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > > http://www.viescas.com/
> > > (Paris, France)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\
roups.com>]
> On Behalf Of Bill Mosca
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM
> > > To:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and
> controls
> > > disappearing
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this
> one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\
roups.com>]
> On Behalf Of John Viescas
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM
> > > To:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and
> controls
> > > disappearing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Terence-
> > >
> > > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a
> form
> > > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls
> > > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.
> > >
> > > John Viescas, author
> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications
> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > > http://www.viescas.com/
> > > (Paris, France)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
>
> > >
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\
roups.com>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
> ] On Behalf Of
> > > buffalome90210
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM
> > > To:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
>
> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> > > disappearing
> > >
> > > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves,
> because
> > > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have
> not
> > > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all
> the
> > > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.
> > >
> > > 1 Create 2 tables
> > >
> > > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table
> > "GOOD"
> > > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !
> > >
> > > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they
> are
> > > good.
> > >
> > > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That
> we
> > can
> > > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the
> > NAME
> > > table.
> > >
> > > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the
> > > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the
> > > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that
> we
> > > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we
> connect
> > the
> > > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only
> names
> > > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that
> > > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the
> > GOOD
> > > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the
> GOOD
> > > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox
> > >
> > > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the
> > > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the
> > name
> > > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show
> all
> > > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.
> > >
> > > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But
> > when
> > > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence
> the
> > > dataportion should display NO Records.
> > >
> > > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO
> > > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will
> also
> > > DISSAPEAR.
> > >
> > > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet,
> the
> > > form and dataportion gets restored.
> > >
> > > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?
> > >
> > > Terence
> > >
> > > --- In
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
> , "buffalome90210"
> > > <buffalome90210@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > oh cantare monami
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)
> > > >
> > > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion ,
> The
> > > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.
> > > >
> > > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,
> > > headers, button......................VANISHES
> > > >
> > > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked
> but
> > the
> > > yes did not,
> > > >
> > > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said
> > earlier,
> > > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is
> academic,
> > BUT
> > > its still very odd.
> > > >
> > > > Terence
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
> , "Bill Mosca"
> > <wrmosca@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Terence
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are
> > > True/False
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure
> you
> > > have to
> > > > > requery to refresh the recordset.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?
> > > They
> > > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Mosca,
> > > > >
> > > > > MS Access MVP
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>
> > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca
> > > > >
> > > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>
> > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
>
> > > > >
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\
roups.com>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
> ] On Behalf Of
> > > buffalome90210
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM
> > > > > To:
MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\
m>
> > >
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\
hoogroups.com>>
>
> > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls
> > > dissapearing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of
> the
> > > mysterious
> > > > > quirks.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is
> eminant.
> > > > >
> > > > > The two questions I have remaining are:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via
> Me.filter
> > > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn
> it
> > > back on, OR
> > > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and
> > > accept that
> > > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I
> still
> > > don't
> > > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the
> > > ability to
> > > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail
> to
> > > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.
> > > > >
> > > > > Terence
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]