To ALL involved in this conversation,

I see ALL sides!

Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development tools in
it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that front.

In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link to the
documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be
interested to see the wording.

I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our
opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO
RETURNED RECORDS".

I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not Uncle
John.

It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?

Terence

PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)






--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>
wrote:
>
> John
>
>
>
> I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just wanted
to
> see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my intuition
> goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a
warning
> pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do with
> my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is not
> going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.
>
>
>
> I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring my
> users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic over
the
> littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users second.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill-
>
> Do this in Northwind:
>
> 1) Start a new form.
>
> 2) Set the Record Source to:
>
> SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0
>
> 3) Add a few controls
>
> 4) Set Allow Additions = No
>
> 5) Switch to Form view
>
> John Viescas, author
> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> Building Microsoft Access Applications
> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> http://www.viescas.com/
> (Paris, France)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
> John
>
> I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't
> fall
> under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you
> would
> see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out
> the
> entire form.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John Viescas
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
> Bill-
>
> If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow
> new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not
> updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.
>
> John Viescas, author
> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> Building Microsoft Access Applications
> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> http://www.viescas.com/
> (Paris, France)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
> John
>
> Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John
> Viescas
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
> Terence-
>
> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form
> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls
> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.
>
> John Viescas, author
> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out
> Building Microsoft Access Applications
> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out
> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> http://www.viescas.com/
> (Paris, France)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> buffalome90210
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls
> disappearing
>
> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because
> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not
> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the
> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.
>
> 1 Create 2 tables
>
> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"
> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !
>
> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are
> good.
>
> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can
> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME
> table.
>
> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the
> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the
> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we
> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the
> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names
> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that
> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD
> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD
> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox
>
> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the
> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name
> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all
> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.
>
> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when
> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the
> dataportion should display NO Records.
>
> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO
> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also
> DISSAPEAR.
>
> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the
> form and dataportion gets restored.
>
> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?
>
> Terence
>
> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"
> <buffalome90210@> wrote:
> >
> > oh cantare monami
> >
> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)
> >
> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The
> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.
> >
> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,
> headers, button......................VANISHES
> >
> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the
> yes did not,
> >
> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,
> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT
> its still very odd.
> >
> > Terence
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Terence
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are
> True/False
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you
> have to
> > > requery to refresh the recordset.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?
> They
> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Bill Mosca,
> > >
> > > MS Access MVP
> > >
> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>
> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca
> > >
> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com
> > >
> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals
> > >
> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> buffalome90210
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM
> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls
> dissapearing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the
> mysterious
> > > quirks.
> > >
> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.
> > >
> > > The two questions I have remaining are:
> > >
> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter
> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it
> back on, OR
> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.
> > >
> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and
> accept that
> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still
> don't
> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the
> ability to
> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to
> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.
> > >
> > > Terence
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>