I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the mysterious

quirks.



I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.



The two questions I have remaining are:



1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back on, OR

rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.



2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept that

their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability to

make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.



Terence

Hi Terence,



Whenever I have a form that is acting in an unusual fashion I make sure the form

itself is not corrupted.



To fix a corrupted form is usually very easy.  In the database window I click on

the form, hold down the Ctl key and drag and drop it.  That creates a copy of

the form.  I then delete the original form and rename the copy to the original

name.



Of course it always pays to make a copy of your database before you do this.



Best Regards,

Pat

http://gainingaccess.net/





--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious quirks.

>

> I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

>

> The two questions I have remaining are:

>

> 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back on, OR

rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

>

> 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept that

their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability to

make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

>

> Terence

>

Terence







1.       You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are True/False







And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you have to

requery to refresh the recordset.







2.       Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing? They

should all show unless you specifically hide them.







Regards,



Bill Mosca,



MS Access MVP



  <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca



That'll do IT    <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com



Founder, MS_Access_Professionals



  <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals











From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls dissapearing

















I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the mysterious

quirks.



I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.



The two questions I have remaining are:



1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back on, OR

rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.



2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept that

their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability to

make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.



Terence







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

oh cantare monami



Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)



NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The Form

Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.



THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels, headers,

button......................VANISHES



regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the yes

did not,



Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier, For

production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT its

still very odd.



Terence









--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>

wrote:

>

> Terence

>

>

>

> 1.       You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are True/False

>

>

>

> And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you have to

> requery to refresh the recordset.

>

>

>

> 2.       Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing? They

> should all show unless you specifically hide them.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill Mosca,

>

> MS Access MVP

>

>  <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

>

> That'll do IT    <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

>

> Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

>

>  <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

>

>

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> quirks.

>

> I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

>

> The two questions I have remaining are:

>

> 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back on,

OR

> rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

>

> 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept that

> their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

> understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability to

> make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because its

purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not attempted

to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the other stuff in my

form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the DISTINCT

DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the POTENTIAL names

from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we MUST make the listbox

for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the NAME/listbox to only the

GOOD table, the result would be that only names show which already exits in the

GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that scenario will only show names that have at

some point been added to the GOOD table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would

never show up in the GOOD table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the NAME/listbox

depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name in the NAME

listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all the Dates that

JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO Column

Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the form

and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence











--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

>  oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The Form

Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels, headers,

button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the yes

did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier, For

production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT its

still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@> wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1.       You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2.       Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> >  <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT    <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >  <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back

on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept

that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability

to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

Terence







You have a terrible accent. :O) At first I thought you were writing in Italian.

Cantare means "to sing", but looking at the rest, I figured it was Freenglish.







It could be the form is corrupt. What happens if you build a new form from

scratch?







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 11:28 AM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















oh cantare monami



Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)



NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The Form

Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.



THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels, headers,

button......................VANISHES



regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the yes

did not,



Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier, For

production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT its

still very odd.



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>

wrote:

>

> Terence

>

>

>

> 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are True/False

>

>

>

> And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you have to

> requery to refresh the recordset.

>

>

>

> 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing? They

> should all show unless you specifically hide them.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill Mosca,

>

> MS Access MVP

>

> <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

>

> That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

>

> Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

>

> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

>

>

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> quirks.

>

> I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

>

> The two questions I have remaining are:

>

> 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it back on,

OR

> rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

>

> 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and accept that

> their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still don't

> understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the ability to

> make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked.  When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear.  It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence











--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

>  oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1.       You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2.       Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> >  <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT    <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >  <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>









------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

Oh WOW! I just learned something totally and completely new!



I thought the disappearing controls were a bug and have gone way out of my

way to get around this issue in the past. Now that I know it's a feature I

can use it in my design "sales pitches" :) "No you see, it's supposed to do

that. It helps maintain data normalization by totally locking users out of

modifying data via form controls"



In all seriousness thank you for that insight John.



Jesse



On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:10 PM, John Viescas <JohnV@...> wrote:



>

>

> Terence-

>

> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>]

> On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

>

> 1 Create 2 tables

>

> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

>

> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> good.

>

> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

> can

> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

> table.

>

> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

> the

> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

> GOOD

> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

>

> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

> name

> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

>

> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

> when

> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> dataportion should display NO Records.

>

> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> DISSAPEAR.

>

> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> form and dataportion gets restored.

>

> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

>

> Terence

>

> --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>,

> "buffalome90210"

>

> <buffalome90210@...> wrote:

> >

> > oh cantare monami

> >

> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> >

> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> >

> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> headers, button......................VANISHES

> >

> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

> the

> yes did not,

> >

> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

> earlier,

> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

> BUT

> its still very odd.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>,

> "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> True/False

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> have to

> > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> They

> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill Mosca,

> > >

> > > MS Access MVP

> > >

> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > >

> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > >

> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>]

> On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> dissapearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> mysterious

> > > quirks.

> > >

> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > >

> > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > >

> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> back on, OR

> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > >

> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> accept that

> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> don't

> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> ability to

> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John







Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill-



If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

updatable), the form goes blank.  It's been that way forever.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John







Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the disappearing

act will cease ?



terence







--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@...>

wrote:

>

> Bill-

>

> If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

> new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

> updatable), the form goes blank.  It's been that way forever.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

>

>

> Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Terence-

>

> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

>

> 1 Create 2 tables

>

> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

>

> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> good.

>

> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

> table.

>

> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

>

> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

>

> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> dataportion should display NO Records.

>

> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> DISSAPEAR.

>

> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> form and dataportion gets restored.

>

> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

>

> Terence

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> >

> > oh cantare monami

> >

> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> >

> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> >

> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> headers, button......................VANISHES

> >

> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

> yes did not,

> >

> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

> its still very odd.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> True/False

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> have to

> > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> They

> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill Mosca,

> > >

> > > MS Access MVP

> > >

> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > >

> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > >

> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> dissapearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> mysterious

> > > quirks.

> > >

> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > >

> > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > >

> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> back on, OR

> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > >

> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> accept that

> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> don't

> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> ability to

> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

John







I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't fall

under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you would

see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out the

entire form.







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















Bill-



If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John



Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.



Regards,



Bill



From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)



-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terence-



As long as the form's recordset is updatable, yes.  But maybe you don't want

users to be able to actually add a record.  If the controls are only to

display the data, consider setting the Locked property of all of them to

Yes.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:06 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the

disappearing act will cease ?



terence







--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@...>

wrote:

>

> Bill-

>

> If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

allow

> new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

not

> updatable), the form goes blank.  It's been that way forever.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

>

>

> Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Terence-

>

> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

>

> 1 Create 2 tables

>

> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

"GOOD"

> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

>

> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> good.

>

> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

can

> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

NAME

> table.

>

> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

the

> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

GOOD

> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

>

> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

name

> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

>

> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

when

> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> dataportion should display NO Records.

>

> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> DISSAPEAR.

>

> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> form and dataportion gets restored.

>

> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

>

> Terence

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> >

> > oh cantare monami

> >

> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> >

> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> >

> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> headers, button......................VANISHES

> >

> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

the

> yes did not,

> >

> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

earlier,

> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

BUT

> its still very odd.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

<wrmosca@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> True/False

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> have to

> > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> They

> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill Mosca,

> > >

> > > MS Access MVP

> > >

> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > >

> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > >

> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> dissapearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> mysterious

> > > quirks.

> > >

> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > >

> > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > >

> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> back on, OR

> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > >

> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> accept that

> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> don't

> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> ability to

> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>









------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

TY Uncle V.....I will however be interested to see the posts which may (or may

not) go between you and Bill regarding this so called "feature"........ I

realize you are not Microsoft, but I would think that even you would consider

this access/form behavior of disappearing controls to be at least odd and

possibly Inappropriate ?





Terence







--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@...>

wrote:

>

> Terence-

>

> As long as the form's recordset is updatable, yes.  But maybe you don't want

> users to be able to actually add a record.  If the controls are only to

> display the data, consider setting the Locked property of all of them to

> Yes.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:06 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the

> disappearing act will cease ?

>

> terence

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Bill-

> >

> > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

> allow

> > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

> not

> > updatable), the form goes blank.  It's been that way forever.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> >

> > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terence-

> >

> > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> >

> > 1 Create 2 tables

> >

> > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

> "GOOD"

> > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> >

> > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> > good.

> >

> > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

> can

> > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

> NAME

> > table.

> >

> > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

> the

> > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

> GOOD

> > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> >

> > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

> name

> > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> >

> > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

> when

> > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> > dataportion should display NO Records.

> >

> > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> > DISSAPEAR.

> >

> > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> > form and dataportion gets restored.

> >

> > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> >

> > Terence

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > >

> > > oh cantare monami

> > >

> > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > >

> > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > >

> > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > >

> > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

> the

> > yes did not,

> > >

> > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

> earlier,

> > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

> BUT

> > its still very odd.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

> <wrmosca@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > True/False

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> > have to

> > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > They

> > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > >

> > > > MS Access MVP

> > > >

> > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > >

> > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > >

> > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > dissapearing

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> > mysterious

> > > > quirks.

> > > >

> > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > > >

> > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > >

> > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> > back on, OR

> > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > accept that

> > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> > don't

> > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > ability to

> > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

Terrence,



If I can weigh in seriously here, I agree that it is odd for a developers

tool (Access) to provide "features" like this as many development

environments and tools are completely unconstrained and will let you do

whatever you like - consequences be damned. Access however had lots of built

in "features" that enhance the development and user experience for the

applications and developers for which it is designed (think about the

hourglass, it wont' automatically go away in any other development tool, you

have to explicitly command it to stop).



This control "feature" (which as I said a few minutes ago, always thought

was a bug) is simply an attempt by MS to "help" developers create better

applications. It's actually pretty well documented and lots of people agree

with you but not much to be done for it I suppose. One of the advantages of

more "advanced" stuff like SQL Server and Visual Studio/.NET is they don't

do things like this. A MAJOR disadvantage is they don't do any of the stuff

that actually is helpful.



Just my two cents.



Jesse



On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:31 PM, buffalome90210 <buffalome90210@...>wrote:



>

>

> TY Uncle V.....I will however be interested to see the posts which may (or

> may not) go between you and Bill regarding this so called "feature"........

> I realize you are not Microsoft, but I would think that even you would

> consider this access/form behavior of disappearing controls to be at least

> odd and possibly Inappropriate ?

>

> Terence

>

>

> --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>,

> "John Viescas" <JohnV@...> wrote:

> >

> > Terence-

> >

> > As long as the form's recordset is updatable, yes. But maybe you don't

> want

> > users to be able to actually add a record. If the controls are only to

> > display the data, consider setting the Locked property of all of them to

> > Yes.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>]

> On Behalf Of buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:06 PM

> > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the

> > disappearing act will cease ?

> >

> > terence

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>,

> "John Viescas" <JohnV@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Bill-

> > >

> > > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

> > allow

> > > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset

> is

> > not

> > > updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

> > >

> > > John Viescas, author

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > (Paris, France)

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>]

> On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

> controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this

> one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>]

> On Behalf Of John Viescas

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

> controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Terence-

> > >

> > > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a

> form

> > > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> > >

> > > John Viescas, author

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > (Paris, France)

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

>

> > >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

> ] On Behalf Of

> > > buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves,

> because

> > > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have

> not

> > > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all

> the

> > > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> > >

> > > 1 Create 2 tables

> > >

> > > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

> > "GOOD"

> > > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> > >

> > > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they

> are

> > > good.

> > >

> > > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That

> we

> > can

> > > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

> > NAME

> > > table.

> > >

> > > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that

> we

> > > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we

> connect

> > the

> > > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only

> names

> > > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

> > GOOD

> > > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the

> GOOD

> > > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> > >

> > > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

> > name

> > > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show

> all

> > > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> > >

> > > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

> > when

> > > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence

> the

> > > dataportion should display NO Records.

> > >

> > > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will

> also

> > > DISSAPEAR.

> > >

> > > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet,

> the

> > > form and dataportion gets restored.

> > >

> > > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > > --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

> , "buffalome90210"

> > > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > oh cantare monami

> > > >

> > > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > > >

> > > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion ,

> The

> > > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > > >

> > > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > > >

> > > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked

> but

> > the

> > > yes did not,

> > > >

> > > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

> > earlier,

> > > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is

> academic,

> > BUT

> > > its still very odd.

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

> , "Bill Mosca"

> > <wrmosca@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Terence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > > True/False

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure

> you

> > > have to

> > > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > > They

> > > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > > >

> > > > > MS Access MVP

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > > >

> > > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > > >

> > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

>

> > > > >

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoog\

roups.com>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

> ] On Behalf Of

> > > buffalome90210

> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > > To:

MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.co\

m>

> > >

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com<MS_Access_Professionals%2540ya\

hoogroups.com>>

>

> > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > > dissapearing

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of

> the

> > > mysterious

> > > > > quirks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is

> eminant.

> > > > >

> > > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via

> Me.filter

> > > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn

> it

> > > back on, OR

> > > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > > accept that

> > > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I

> still

> > > don't

> > > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > > ability to

> > > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail

> to

> > > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > > >

> > > > > Terence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terence-



I don't think it's inappropriate at all.  If you open a form whose recordset

returns no records and the form can't add records, why display any controls?

Controls imply that you can enter/change something.  Nothing can be entered

or changed, so the form goes blank.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:31 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



TY Uncle V.....I will however be interested to see the posts which may (or

may not) go between you and Bill regarding this so called "feature"........

I realize you are not Microsoft, but I would think that even you would

consider this access/form behavior of disappearing controls to be at least

odd and possibly Inappropriate ?





Terence







--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@...>

wrote:

>

> Terence-

>

> As long as the form's recordset is updatable, yes.  But maybe you don't

want

> users to be able to actually add a record.  If the controls are only to

> display the data, consider setting the Locked property of all of them to

> Yes.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:06 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John , are u saying that if I allow records to be added, then the

> disappearing act will cease ?

>

> terence

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "John Viescas" <JohnV@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Bill-

> >

> > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

> allow

> > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

> not

> > updatable), the form goes blank.  It's been that way forever.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> >

> > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this

one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > disappearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terence-

> >

> > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a

form

> > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves,

because

> > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> >

> > 1 Create 2 tables

> >

> > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

> "GOOD"

> > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> >

> > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> > good.

> >

> > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

> can

> > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

> NAME

> > table.

> >

> > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that

we

> > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

> the

> > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

> GOOD

> > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> >

> > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

> name

> > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show

all

> > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> >

> > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

> when

> > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence

the

> > dataportion should display NO Records.

> >

> > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> > DISSAPEAR.

> >

> > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet,

the

> > form and dataportion gets restored.

> >

> > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> >

> > Terence

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > >

> > > oh cantare monami

> > >

> > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > >

> > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > >

> > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > >

> > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

> the

> > yes did not,

> > >

> > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

> earlier,

> > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

> BUT

> > its still very odd.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

> <wrmosca@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > True/False

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> > have to

> > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > They

> > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > >

> > > > MS Access MVP

> > > >

> > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > >

> > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > >

> > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > dissapearing

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> > mysterious

> > > > quirks.

> > > >

> > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is

eminant.

> > > >

> > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > >

> > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via

Me.filter

> > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> > back on, OR

> > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > accept that

> > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I

still

> > don't

> > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > ability to

> > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail

to

> > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>









------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

Bill-



Do this in Northwind:



1) Start a new form.



2) Set the Record Source to:



   SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0



3) Add a few controls



4) Set Allow Additions = No



5) Switch to Form view



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John







I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

fall

under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

would

see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out

the

entire form.







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















Bill-



If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John



Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.



Regards,



Bill



From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)



-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

John







I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just wanted to

see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my intuition

goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a warning

pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do with

my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is not

going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.







I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring my

users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic over the

littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users second.







Regards,



Bill







From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing

















Bill-



Do this in Northwind:



1) Start a new form.



2) Set the Record Source to:



SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0



3) Add a few controls



4) Set Allow Additions = No



5) Switch to Form view



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John



I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

fall

under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

would

see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out

the

entire form.



Regards,



Bill



From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



Bill-



If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)



-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



John



Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.



Regards,



Bill



From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



Terence-



Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)



-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.



1 Create 2 tables



table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !



Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

good.



Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

table.



Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox



BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.



Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

dataportion should display NO Records.



BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

DISSAPEAR.



Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

form and dataportion gets restored.



BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?



Terence



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> oh cantare monami

>

> Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

>

> NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

>

> THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

headers, button......................VANISHES

>

> regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

yes did not,

>

> Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

its still very odd.

>

> Terence

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

True/False

> >

> >

> >

> > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

have to

> > requery to refresh the recordset.

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

They

> > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill Mosca,

> >

> > MS Access MVP

> >

> > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> >

> > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> >

> > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

dissapearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

mysterious

> > quirks.

> >

> > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> >

> > The two questions I have remaining are:

> >

> > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

back on, OR

> > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> >

> > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

accept that

> > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

don't

> > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

ability to

> > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To ALL involved in this conversation,



I see ALL sides!



Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development tools in

it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that front.



In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link to the

documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be

interested to see the wording.



I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our

opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO

RETURNED RECORDS".



I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not Uncle

John.



It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?



Terence



PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)













--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>

wrote:

>

> John

>

>

>

> I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just wanted

to

> see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my intuition

> goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a

warning

> pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do with

> my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is not

> going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.

>

>

>

> I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring my

> users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic over

the

> littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users second.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Bill-

>

> Do this in Northwind:

>

> 1) Start a new form.

>

> 2) Set the Record Source to:

>

> SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0

>

> 3) Add a few controls

>

> 4) Set Allow Additions = No

>

> 5) Switch to Form view

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

> I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

> fall

> under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

> would

> see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out

> the

> entire form.

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> Bill-

>

> If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

> new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

> updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

> Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

> Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> Terence-

>

> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

>

> 1 Create 2 tables

>

> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

>

> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> good.

>

> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

> table.

>

> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

>

> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

>

> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> dataportion should display NO Records.

>

> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> DISSAPEAR.

>

> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> form and dataportion gets restored.

>

> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

>

> Terence

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> >

> > oh cantare monami

> >

> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> >

> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> >

> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> headers, button......................VANISHES

> >

> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

> yes did not,

> >

> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

> its still very odd.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> True/False

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> have to

> > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> They

> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill Mosca,

> > >

> > > MS Access MVP

> > >

> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > >

> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > >

> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> dissapearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> mysterious

> > > quirks.

> > >

> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > >

> > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > >

> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> back on, OR

> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > >

> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> accept that

> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> don't

> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> ability to

> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

Hi Terence,



Well you now know what happens when you try to

display no records with AllowAdditions = No.



It is quite logical in the case of Continuous

Forms where you would display no rows.

In the case of a SingleForm you might expect to

see the Labels but would you expect to see the

TextBoxes if there is no record? If you did

see them it would imply that you have a blank

record which is obviously(?) not true.



The big question is what do you want to see or

do if there are no records?



I'm sure you will think of something exotic<g>



I think you can rule out Microsoft doing a

redesign unless you are an Oil sheikh.



Regards, Clive.



--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> To ALL involved in this conversation,

>

> I see ALL sides!

>

> Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development tools in

it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that front.

>

> In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link to

the documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be

interested to see the wording.

>

> I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our

opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO

RETURNED RECORDS".

>

> I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not

Uncle John.

>

> It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?

>

> Terence

>

> PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@> wrote:

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> >

> > I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just wanted

to

> > see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my

intuition

> > goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a

warning

> > pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do

with

> > my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is not

> > going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.

> >

> >

> >

> > I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring my

> > users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic over

the

> > littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users second.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Bill-

> >

> > Do this in Northwind:

> >

> > 1) Start a new form.

> >

> > 2) Set the Record Source to:

> >

> > SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0

> >

> > 3) Add a few controls

> >

> > 4) Set Allow Additions = No

> >

> > 5) Switch to Form view

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > John

> >

> > I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

> > fall

> > under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

> > would

> > see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank out

> > the

> > entire form.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > Bill-

> >

> > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not allow

> > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is not

> > updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Mosca

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > John

> >

> > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Bill

> >

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

> > Viescas

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > Terence-

> >

> > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> >

> > John Viescas, author

> > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > http://www.viescas.com/

> > (Paris, France)

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > disappearing

> >

> > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> >

> > 1 Create 2 tables

> >

> > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table "GOOD"

> > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> >

> > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> > good.

> >

> > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we can

> > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the NAME

> > table.

> >

> > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect the

> > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the GOOD

> > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> >

> > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the name

> > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> >

> > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But when

> > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> > dataportion should display NO Records.

> >

> > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> > DISSAPEAR.

> >

> > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> > form and dataportion gets restored.

> >

> > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> >

> > Terence

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > >

> > > oh cantare monami

> > >

> > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > >

> > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > >

> > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > >

> > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but the

> > yes did not,

> > >

> > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said earlier,

> > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic, BUT

> > its still very odd.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > True/False

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> > have to

> > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > They

> > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > >

> > > > MS Access MVP

> > > >

> > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > >

> > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > >

> > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > buffalome90210

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > dissapearing

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> > mysterious

> > > > quirks.

> > > >

> > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > > >

> > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > >

> > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> > back on, OR

> > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > accept that

> > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> > don't

> > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > ability to

> > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

Hi Clive, WOW, my head is spinning, I did not anticipate that my simple little

question would have ensighted the discussion which occured.



I see ALL sides of the the discussion, some I agree with, some I agree

partially, In any event I understand the position from which the develope their

opinions.



The question of what next ?



Well, certainly there is enough information, techniques, to make the bloody form

do whatever I want. I guess what got my goat was that usually access

intuitivness falls in line with my expected results, BUT inthis event it didnt.



I must fall back to a different posture. I will go back to the roots. The form

is not for me, the form is for my customer. The intention of the form, its

purpose, was to provide additional information to my customer when they needed

to know information about their world. In this case, their world, is a databse

full of records reflecting scheduling informtion betwen a University and a

Hospital.



What I am meeting with my customer tommorow. What I am going to do is to ask

them, What they would expect to see when they click various listboxes. I will

use their answers to drive the logic of the form. I will make the form deliver

to them what "THEY" find most valuable, appropriate, expected, needed, and most

understandable from their perspective.



The saving grace is that through the discussion, I now have to tools and

knowledge at my dispossal to be ABLE to accomodate my customers needs. I will

write back tommorow on this post telling you all what "they", my customers,

expect in this situation.



Yours

Terence











--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Clive Williams" <zctek@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Terence,

>

> Well you now know what happens when you try to

> display no records with AllowAdditions = No.

>

> It is quite logical in the case of Continuous

> Forms where you would display no rows.

> In the case of a SingleForm you might expect to

> see the Labels but would you expect to see the

> TextBoxes if there is no record? If you did

> see them it would imply that you have a blank

> record which is obviously(?) not true.

>

> The big question is what do you want to see or

> do if there are no records?

>

> I'm sure you will think of something exotic<g>

>

> I think you can rule out Microsoft doing a

> redesign unless you are an Oil sheikh.

>

> Regards, Clive.

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@> wrote:

> >

> > To ALL involved in this conversation,

> >

> > I see ALL sides!

> >

> > Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development tools

in it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that front.

> >

> > In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link to

the documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be

interested to see the wording.

> >

> > I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our

opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO

RETURNED RECORDS".

> >

> > I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not

Uncle John.

> >

> > It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?

> >

> > Terence

> >

> > PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just

wanted to

> > > see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my

intuition

> > > goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a

warning

> > > pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do

with

> > > my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is

not

> > > going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring

my

> > > users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic

over the

> > > littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users

second.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill-

> > >

> > > Do this in Northwind:

> > >

> > > 1) Start a new form.

> > >

> > > 2) Set the Record Source to:

> > >

> > > SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0

> > >

> > > 3) Add a few controls

> > >

> > > 4) Set Allow Additions = No

> > >

> > > 5) Switch to Form view

> > >

> > > John Viescas, author

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > (Paris, France)

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

> > > fall

> > > under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

> > > would

> > > see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank

out

> > > the

> > > entire form.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > Bill-

> > >

> > > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

allow

> > > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

not

> > > updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

> > >

> > > John Viescas, author

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > (Paris, France)

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

> > > Viescas

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > Terence-

> > >

> > > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> > > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> > >

> > > John Viescas, author

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > (Paris, France)

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > > buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > disappearing

> > >

> > > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> > > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> > > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> > > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> > >

> > > 1 Create 2 tables

> > >

> > > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

"GOOD"

> > > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> > >

> > > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> > > good.

> > >

> > > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

can

> > > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

NAME

> > > table.

> > >

> > > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> > > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

the

> > > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> > > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

GOOD

> > > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> > > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> > >

> > > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

name

> > > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> > > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> > >

> > > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

when

> > > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> > > dataportion should display NO Records.

> > >

> > > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> > > DISSAPEAR.

> > >

> > > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> > > form and dataportion gets restored.

> > >

> > > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> > > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > oh cantare monami

> > > >

> > > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > > >

> > > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> > > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > > >

> > > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > > >

> > > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

the

> > > yes did not,

> > > >

> > > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

earlier,

> > > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

BUT

> > > its still very odd.

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

<wrmosca@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Terence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > > True/False

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> > > have to

> > > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > > They

> > > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > > >

> > > > > MS Access MVP

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > > >

> > > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > > >

> > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > > buffalome90210

> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > > dissapearing

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> > > mysterious

> > > > > quirks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > > > >

> > > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> > > back on, OR

> > > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > > accept that

> > > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> > > don't

> > > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > > ability to

> > > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > > >

> > > > > Terence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

Terence



A truly admirable and professional approach! Asking the client what he expects

the application to do is what your job is all about. After all, this is a custom

application.



But you also need to guide the client in the direction of the generally accepted

behavior of Windows applications unless we're talking about a user base of one.



I often find inexperienced users come up with some rather bizarre requests.

Hence the existance of thousands of poorly designed websites complete with

flashing ads, cursor chasers, blue text on red backgrounds, etc.



Regards,

Bill Mosca,

http://www.thatlldoit.com

Founder - MS_Access_Professionals

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals/

Microsoft Office Access MVP

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca







--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Clive, WOW, my head is spinning, I did not anticipate that my simple little

question would have ensighted the discussion which occured.

>

> I see ALL sides of the the discussion, some I agree with, some I agree

partially, In any event I understand the position from which the develope their

opinions.

>

> The question of what next ?

>

> Well, certainly there is enough information, techniques, to make the bloody

form do whatever I want. I guess what got my goat was that usually access

intuitivness falls in line with my expected results, BUT inthis event it didnt.

>

> I must fall back to a different posture. I will go back to the roots. The form

is not for me, the form is for my customer. The intention of the form, its

purpose, was to provide additional information to my customer when they needed

to know information about their world. In this case, their world, is a databse

full of records reflecting scheduling informtion betwen a University and a

Hospital.

>

> What I am meeting with my customer tommorow. What I am going to do is to ask

them, What they would expect to see when they click various listboxes. I will

use their answers to drive the logic of the form. I will make the form deliver

to them what "THEY" find most valuable, appropriate, expected, needed, and most

understandable from their perspective.

>

> The saving grace is that through the discussion, I now have to tools and

knowledge at my dispossal to be ABLE to accomodate my customers needs. I will

write back tommorow on this post telling you all what "they", my customers,

expect in this situation.

>

> Yours

> Terence

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Clive Williams" <zctek@>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi Terence,

> >

> > Well you now know what happens when you try to

> > display no records with AllowAdditions = No.

> >

> > It is quite logical in the case of Continuous

> > Forms where you would display no rows.

> > In the case of a SingleForm you might expect to

> > see the Labels but would you expect to see the

> > TextBoxes if there is no record? If you did

> > see them it would imply that you have a blank

> > record which is obviously(?) not true.

> >

> > The big question is what do you want to see or

> > do if there are no records?

> >

> > I'm sure you will think of something exotic<g>

> >

> > I think you can rule out Microsoft doing a

> > redesign unless you are an Oil sheikh.

> >

> > Regards, Clive.

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "buffalome90210"

<buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > >

> > > To ALL involved in this conversation,

> > >

> > > I see ALL sides!

> > >

> > > Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development

tools in it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that

front.

> > >

> > > In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link

to the documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be

interested to see the wording.

> > >

> > > I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our

opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO

RETURNED RECORDS".

> > >

> > > I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not

Uncle John.

> > >

> > > It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > > PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > John

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just

wanted to

> > > > see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my

intuition

> > > > goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a

warning

> > > > pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I

do with

> > > > my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is

not

> > > > going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring

my

> > > > users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic

over the

> > > > littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users

second.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bill-

> > > >

> > > > Do this in Northwind:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Start a new form.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Set the Record Source to:

> > > >

> > > > SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0

> > > >

> > > > 3) Add a few controls

> > > >

> > > > 4) Set Allow Additions = No

> > > >

> > > > 5) Switch to Form view

> > > >

> > > > John Viescas, author

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > > (Paris, France)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > > John

> > > >

> > > > I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

> > > > fall

> > > > under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought

you

> > > > would

> > > > see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank

out

> > > > the

> > > > entire form.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > > Bill-

> > > >

> > > > If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

allow

> > > > new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

not

> > > > updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

> > > >

> > > > John Viescas, author

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > > (Paris, France)

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > > John

> > > >

> > > > Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this

one.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

> > > > Viescas

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and

controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > > Terence-

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a

form

> > > > that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> > > > disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

> > > >

> > > > John Viescas, author

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> > > > Building Microsoft Access Applications

> > > > Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> > > > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> > > > http://www.viescas.com/

> > > > (Paris, France)

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > > > buffalome90210

> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> > > > disappearing

> > > >

> > > > I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves,

because

> > > > its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> > > > attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> > > > other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

> > > >

> > > > 1 Create 2 tables

> > > >

> > > > table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

"GOOD"

> > > > We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

> > > >

> > > > Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> > > > good.

> > > >

> > > > Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

can

> > > > choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

NAME

> > > > table.

> > > >

> > > > Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> > > > DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> > > > POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that

we

> > > > MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

the

> > > > NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> > > > show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> > > > scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

GOOD

> > > > table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> > > > table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

> > > >

> > > > BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> > > > NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

name

> > > > in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show

all

> > > > the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

> > > >

> > > > Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

when

> > > > clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence

the

> > > > dataportion should display NO Records.

> > > >

> > > > BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> > > > Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> > > > DISSAPEAR.

> > > >

> > > > Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet,

the

> > > > form and dataportion gets restored.

> > > >

> > > > BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

> > > >

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> > > > <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > oh cantare monami

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> > > > >

> > > > > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> > > > Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> > > > >

> > > > > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> > > > headers, button......................VANISHES

> > > > >

> > > > > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

the

> > > > yes did not,

> > > > >

> > > > > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

earlier,

> > > > For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

BUT

> > > > its still very odd.

> > > > >

> > > > > Terence

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

<wrmosca@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terence

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> > > > True/False

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> > > > have to

> > > > > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> > > > They

> > > > > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bill Mosca,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > MS Access MVP

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> > > > buffalome90210

> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> > > > dissapearing

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> > > > mysterious

> > > > > > quirks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is

eminant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via

Me.filter

> > > > > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> > > > back on, OR

> > > > > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> > > > accept that

> > > > > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I

still

> > > > don't

> > > > > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> > > > ability to

> > > > > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail

to

> > > > > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terence

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Terence-



First, if you're leaning toward Bill, what would you expect the form to do

if you filter it to no records and you can't add a record?  Bill suggests it

should show the controls blank but locked.  But the developer might have

chosen locked properties for some but not all of the controls.  If the form

returns to a state where it does have records again, how would Access

determine which controls to unlock?



As for no records, whenever I have a situation where returning no rows would

be confusing or otherwise cause a problem, I check first in code.  In your

case, I think a simple DLookup would suffice.  If DLookup returns a Null

when using the filter, tell the user and reject applying the filter.



John Viescas, author

Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

Building Microsoft Access Applications

Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

http://www.viescas.com/

(Paris, France)





-----Original Message-----

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of buffalome90210

Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:38 AM

To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

disappearing



To ALL involved in this conversation,



I see ALL sides!



Yes Jesse I agree that Access does indeed transcend other development tools

in it's intuitive assists to developers needs....No Question on that front.



In regard to the above statement, I do wish someone would give me a link to

the documentation that explains the effect of vanishing controls. I would be

interested to see the wording.



I guess my assessment is that what we are discussing is what each of our

opinions is regarding how "WE Each would handle the given scenario of NO

RETURNED RECORDS".



I can see pros and cons to all, though I tend to lean towards Bill and Not

Uncle John.



It appears that we may need to conclude by agreeing to disagree?



Terence



PS In any event, WHAT A WILD and PASSIONATE discussion !:)













--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>

wrote:

>

> John

>

>

>

> I did create a form just for testing. Not that I doubted you...I just

wanted to

> see it happen. I think it's counter-intuitive (at least as far as my

intuition

> goes <g>). I'd rather see the controls, but have them locked and maybe a

warning

> pop up when the filter is applied and returns no records...just like I do

with

> my reports that return no records. I let the user know why the report is

not

> going to open instead of just showing the #error# junk.

>

>

>

> I'm afraid such a feature would make me spend more useless time assuring

my

> users that the application is indeed not broken. They do tend to panic

over the

> littlest things because they are caregivers first and computer users

second.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:14 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Bill-

>

> Do this in Northwind:

>

> 1) Start a new form.

>

> 2) Set the Record Source to:

>

> SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE 1 = 0

>

> 3) Add a few controls

>

> 4) Set Allow Additions = No

>

> 5) Switch to Form view

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

> I've never seen that before. I guess because I've built forms that don't

> fall

> under those specs. Interesting to say the least. I would have thought you

> would

> see the controls but they would be locked. It seems funny to just blank

out

> the

> entire form.

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:51 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> Bill-

>

> If the filter causes the form to return no rows, and the form does not

allow

> new records (either because Allow Additions is False or the recordset is

not

> updatable), the form goes blank. It's been that way forever.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill

Mosca

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:27 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> John

>

> Why would filtering cause controls to vanish? I don't understand this one.

>

> Regards,

>

> Bill

>

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of John

> Viescas

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:10 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> Terence-

>

> Sorry, but that's the way Access has always worked. When you filter a form

> that cannot add records so that it has no records, all the controls

> disappear. It's a "feature," not a bug.

>

> John Viescas, author

> Microsoft Office Access 2007 Inside Out

> Building Microsoft Access Applications

> Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out

> SQL Queries for Mere Mortals

> http://www.viescas.com/

> (Paris, France)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:57 PM

> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [MS_AccessPros] Re: About my post re split forms and controls

> disappearing

>

> I thought I would explain the business purpose this form achieves, because

> its purpose has a generic fundamental use to all. and thought I have not

> attempted to duplicate the error in a small test form which lack all the

> other stuff in my form, i am pretty sure it can be duplicated.

>

> 1 Create 2 tables

>

> table one will contain two fields Name & Date, we will call it table

"GOOD"

> We will use this table and add to it entries of when people are GOOD !

>

> Hence a person gets added to the table, their name and the date they are

> good.

>

> Table 2 has one field ...a Name of people...these are the people That we

can

> choose from to add them to the GOOD table, we will call this table the

NAME

> table.

>

> Now we create a split form. The top has a listbox displaying all the

> DISTINCT DATES in the GOOD table. The second listbox displays all the

> POTENTIAL names from the NAME table. NOTICE that the difficulty is that we

> MUST make the listbox for names connect to the NAME table, If we connect

the

> NAME/listbox to only the GOOD table, the result would be that only names

> show which already exits in the GOOD table. Hence the listbox in that

> scenario will only show names that have at some point been added to the

GOOD

> table. Someone like "johnny", who is bad would never show up in the GOOD

> table, and therefore never show in the NAME/listbox

>

> BUT I wanted the listbox to display all names GOOD and Bad, so the

> NAME/listbox depicts ALL the Names of the NAME TABLE and a click on the

name

> in the NAME listbox should cause the dataportion in the bottom to show all

> the Dates that JOHNNY" was good.

>

> Now IF Johnny was NEVER GOOD, The Name/Listbox would show His name, But

when

> clicked, the database has NO entry for Johnny in the GOOD Table, hence the

> dataportion should display NO Records.

>

> BUT Instead, when that situation occurs, The Dataportion goes blank, NO

> Column Header no nothing, The TOP Form portion, BOTH Listboxes will also

> DISSAPEAR.

>

> Now if you toggle the filtered button at the bottom of the datasheet, the

> form and dataportion gets restored.

>

> BUT I REALLY don't think the top form controls aught to vanish ?

>

> Terence

>

> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "buffalome90210"

> <buffalome90210@> wrote:

> >

> > oh cantare monami

> >

> > Hi Bill !....... pretending I'm John :)

> >

> > NO NO NO....the weirdness is the the cONTROLS on the top portion , The

> Form Portion, THE listboxes themselves vanish into thin air.

> >

> > THE ENTIRE form on top, all controls, textboxes, listboxes, labels,

> headers, button......................VANISHES

> >

> > regarding the truefalse thingy opposed to yes no.....The NO worked but

the

> yes did not,

> >

> > Now let me go back to true false and give that a whirl, as I said

earlier,

> For production I have chosen a different technique, so this is academic,

BUT

> its still very odd.

> >

> > Terence

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"

<wrmosca@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1. You should be using Me.FilterOn False . The options are

> True/False

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And when you turn a filter on after it being off I'm pretty sure you

> have to

> > > requery to refresh the recordset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Are you saying not all of the fields in the bottom are showing?

> They

> > > should all show unless you specifically hide them.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Bill Mosca,

> > >

> > > MS Access MVP

> > >

> > > <http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca>

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Bill.Mosca

> > >

> > > That'll do IT <http://www.thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com

> > >

> > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals>

> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MS_Access_Professionals

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

> buffalome90210

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 AM

> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] About my post re split forms and controls

> dissapearing

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have been playiong with them a bit, and reading about somne of the

> mysterious

> > > quirks.

> > >

> > > I have gotten around all the issues I had/have so nothing is eminant.

> > >

> > > The two questions I have remaining are:

> > >

> > > 1. I was able to toggle (programatically) the filter off via Me.filter

> > > NO.....But have not been able to re-0establish the filter....Turn it

> back on, OR

> > > rest the entire form to its load state....any Ideas.

> > >

> > > 2. The strange manifestation I saw on the split form, I ralize and

> accept that

> > > their are quirks, and that my filters may be a bit odd...BUT, I still

> don't

> > > understand, not accept, that a filtered Split form should have the

> ability to

> > > make the controls in the form portion "NON Visible" ?...That I fail to

> > > understand..how..why..under any circumstances it should occur.

> > >

> > > Terence

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>









------------------------------------



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