First sart here: http://www.weasner.com/etx/menu.html and check out
the info on Auto star and DS feedback..I was trying to figure out the
same thing a while ago and Richard Seymour on Weasner's site was kind
enough to respond..Here's what he said:
PASTE
Hi...

I saw your note on Mike's site, and the answer to whether it
can be updated is three-fold:

If the 4504 has an "AUX" jack (4-wire telephone handset-sized)
   Yes!  ... that's where the #506  cable/converter set goes.
   The #506 has active electronics in it, so a simple built-it-
    yourself hookup like the #505 isn't possible.
   The #506 also comes with a planetarium program which can also
    control the telescope with the 494 Starfinder's assistance.

[NOTE: WAYNE HERE..we already have that{StarryNight} so don't buy the
set its a waste of the extra $20]

At the moment, there are no firmware updates for the 494 Starfinder
  (evidently also called the "cadet" on their site).
However, with the #506 cable, you'd be able to bulk-load satellites,
  Comets and Asteroids.  Personally, i tend to do it one at a time,
  by hand (the Updater program on the PC is painful)

You can upgrade the -system- by purchasing a 495 or 497 Autostar.
They can control the scope, and provide a numeric keypad and access
to current firmware (although i believe your "1.0" is newer than the
March 2000 update for the 495).  The 495 (which comes with the DS
series of scopes) has, at times, been sold by J.C.Penny for $69.
(it lists for $99).  The 497 occasionally shows for $99, but
lists for $149.

Caveat: i have never -seen- a 4504 setup, so i don't know if it
has an AUX jack.  If it doesn't, you could create one by making
a connector set to split off two of the 8-wires from the 494,
plus power and ground.  If you wish to, i'll send which wire goes
where (i'd send it now, but i haven't  written it up well enough
yet).

Good luck
--dick

END OF PASTE

Since our 494's do not have an AUX jack, we can either wire one up,or
upgrade to the 495 or 497. I honestly am waiting to find the 497 on
sale and go that way (Much larger database)..Richard Seymour is a
wonderfully generous resourch on Weasner's site and even though this
is a ETXer site they tolerate us DSer's..

Hope your enjoying your 4504 as much as I am..

Wayne


  --- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, ron_w@e... wrote:
> Hi, all. I recently purchased my first telescope after 30 years of
> dreaming about them! The 4504 comes with the Starfinder handbox and
I
> have received conflicting information from Meade as to whether it
can
> be updated with new Tours, Stars, etc.
>
> Through much searching I have found that there are several models
of
> the Autostar, #493, #494, #495 and #497. There are also 2 versions
of
> the connector cables, #505 and #506.
>
> Does anyone know what model number the Starfinder handbox is? I
don't
> think the #505 cable will work, but will the #506?
>
> The instructions in the 4504 manual state that there is a Download
> function in the Starfinder (there actually is one) that can be used
> to update it with new data. However, the instructions for the #505
> cable require you to plug one end into a port on the handbox itself
> (which the Starfinder doesn't have).
>
> Is it possible to use a computer to update the Starfinder handbox
or
> do we just have to upgrade to the #495 or #497 Autostar. And, do
the
> Autostars actually work with the 4504?
>
> snip

I measured the output of the power supply and it is 17.35V. However,
that was without any load. I will perform a couple of more tests by
measuring it under load (with different resistors), and in case I
find
out that it cranks out more than 15V, I will probably just plug in an
extension cord to increase resistance...

But the main idea is to hook it up to the cigarette lighter of my
car, and a car battery never produces more than around 13V, and even
with the engine running I have only measured 14.8V. So that shouldn't
pose a problem.
Thanks for the hint about the polarity, I did check it.

Thomas


--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "Wayne Scharphorn"
<screi@p...> wrote:
> Hello Thomas.
> The 12vdc 1amp will work fine I suspect..I use a 12vdc 2amp
regulated
> power supply with no problems..the starfinder does seem to be
> sensitive to any voltage higher than 15vdc so be sure of the actual
> output of whatever supply you use. I had tried a 15vdc 2 amp from
> radio shack and found out it was putting 18.37 vdc and did it make
a
> mess of the starfinder. It seems that what the lable states is not
> always accurate so its wise to use a tester to confirm the output.
> **REMEMBER the CENTER pin is +..and the plug is a 2.5mm x 5.5mm**
> Welcome to AA..8-)
>
> Wayne

Guys,
be careful with the "upgrade" to the Autostar handbox. I have had a
conversation with John Yeh (member of this group) about this and he
said that he actually tried to hook up the 4504 to an Autostar
handbox, without success. The plugs may fit, but evidently the
software is not compatible with either the type of the mount
(equatorial vs. altazimuth on the DS114), or with the gearing ratio
of
the drives.
I called Meade myself a couple of weeks ago in order to investigate
this (even before I talked to John), and the guy from support was
kind
of elusive. He pretty much said the starfinder was all I needed, so
why upgrading? I didn't pay too much attention to it back then and
maybe I wasn't persistent enough to get a definite "yes/no", but in
retrospective it appears to me like he didn't want to admit that the
4504 is not upgradable at all...

Thomas

Hi, all. I recently purchased my first telescope after 30 years of
dreaming about them! The 4504 comes with the Starfinder handbox and I
have received conflicting information from Meade as to whether it can
be updated with new Tours, Stars, etc.

Through much searching I have found that there are several models of
the Autostar, #493, #494, #495 and #497. There are also 2 versions of
the connector cables, #505 and #506.

Does anyone know what model number the Starfinder handbox is? I don't
think the #505 cable will work, but will the #506?

The instructions in the 4504 manual state that there is a Download
function in the Starfinder (there actually is one) that can be used
to update it with new data. However, the instructions for the #505
cable require you to plug one end into a port on the handbox itself
(which the Starfinder doesn't have).

Is it possible to use a computer to update the Starfinder handbox or
do we just have to upgrade to the #495 or #497 Autostar. And, do the
Autostars actually work with the 4504?

As a side note, I have made two "improvements" to my 4504. I added a
bubble level to the tripod for more accurate leveling (which, I
understand, is very important for GOTO telescopes), and I added a
1.25" adaptor along with a set of Plossl eyepieces. I also purchased
a 2X shorty Barlow to replace the flimsy one that came with the
scope. You can't believe the improvement those eyepieces make! My
next purchase will be a replacement for the finderscope. The ones I
looked at didn't seem to have mounts that matched the screw holes in
the OTA. Any suggestions?

My apologies for this long-winded note. I was just so happy to find a
mailing list catering to like-minded folks that it just all came
spilling out. Thanks in advance for any help you can throw my way.

Best regards, Ron

Happy new year Randy
Checkout http://www.handsonoptics.com/ they have some very reasonably
priced & good quality 1.25 eps.. the GTO line is very popular and I
have been very pleased with Hands on optics service. You might
consider a 2x barlow to increase the range of your eps..

Also, the 4504 doesn't do too well over 200x(a 4.5' mirror can
collect just so many protons)(I know the manual says 325x.. but
that's in theory and the marketing guys love high numbers) so a 4mm
(227.5x) is pushing the limits..I have a 5mm and it is just on the
edge of usability and then only when the seeing is VERY good. I would
suggest a 12mm and a 25mm to start with..add a 2x barlow and you have
basically 4 eps. Remember the eps can be used on any scope you might
get in the future and you and your daughter will eventually want to
move out past the planets..I am just begining hunting the Messier
list and I really appreciate the views the upgraded eps I invested in.

Wayne

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, Randy Gordon-Gilmore
<zephyrus@r...> wrote:
> At 05:36 AM 12/29/00 -0000, Jim wrote:
>
> >plus to all of the other members.  I might suggest that you
provide
> >us with some photos showing the modifications you are making.
>
> I'll take a few the next time I borrow the digital camera.
>
> >What's your opinion of the Mead-supplied eyepieces?
>
> Well, I don't have a frame of reference, never having owned a
telescope and
> not having looked through the eyepiece of one for several years.
We can
> focus the 25mm eyepiece pretty well, but the 12.5 and 4mm won't
give an
> adequate focus.  Jupiter on the 4mm just barely revealed two bands,
and
> Saturn on the 4mm just barely showed Cassini's Division, but no
detail on
> the planet itself.  We haven't tried the Barlow yet (last night was
not a
> good night for observing) so I don't know how the 25+Barlow works.
>
> I did a rough re-collimation just looking down the focusing tube,
and am
> making a combination collimating "eyepiece" like in the Collimation
FAQ at
>
> http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~mbartels/kolli/kolli2.htm#mkcombination
>
> so I can collimate it better.
>
> I'm in a quandry about the eyepieces--I can't afford to get 1.25"
eyepieces
> now, but I hate to buy a better .973" 4mm (if there is such a
beast) if
> staying with .973" eyepieces is a dead end.  I would have rather it
came
> with two good 1.25" eyepieces like the British version, than the
one "good"
> and two marginal ones it did come with.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Randy
>
> Randy Gordon-Gilmore  ,----.___________  ______________
_________________
> ProtoTrains          // =   =  === ==  || ==   == == = || == == ==
= == =|
> Rio Vista, CA, USA  /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o----------
-o==o-'
> zephyrus@r...                    http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus

At 10:40 PM 12/30/00 -0000, Thomas wrote:

>one of the motors it says 15V, but I am pretty sure that 12V will be
>sufficient, for the following reasons:

Yes, I asked the technical support guy at Meade what would be an
appropriate power supply for the 4504, and he said 12V 1A, and make sure
the center pin of the output plug is positive.

Best regards,

Randy

Randy Gordon-Gilmore  ,----.___________  ______________  _________________
ProtoTrains          // =   =  === ==  || ==   == == = || == == ==  = == =|
Rio Vista, CA, USA  /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o-----------o==o-'
zephyrus@...                    http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus

Hello Thomas.
The 12vdc 1amp will work fine I suspect..I use a 12vdc 2amp regulated
power supply with no problems..the starfinder does seem to be
sensitive to any voltage higher than 15vdc so be sure of the actual
output of whatever supply you use. I had tried a 15vdc 2 amp from
radio shack and found out it was putting 18.37 vdc and did it make a
mess of the starfinder. It seems that what the lable states is not
always accurate so its wise to use a tester to confirm the output.
**REMEMBER the CENTER pin is +..and the plug is a 2.5mm x 5.5mm**
Welcome to AA..8-)

Wayne


--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "Thomas Puls" <puls@p...>
wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> my name is Thomas, am 31 years old and I am a mechanical engineer,
> working for a Germany-based company on a 3 year contract in the
> United states.
> I recently bought a Meade 4504. Actually, I am one of the "Xmas"
> members some of you predicted back in October...
> Since I live in metro Detroit (at 10F outside and cloudy skies), I
> haven't had a chance yet to try out my new (and first) telescope,
but
> I am looking forward to it.
> Although I haven't used it yet, I have already been thinking about
a
> couple of improvements. I will definitely go for the 1.25"
eyepieces
> (thanks for the free-of-charge-adapter hint).
> I purchased one small bubble level at Lowe's, which (most likely) I
> will mount on one of the lugs on the tripod. Maybe I will keep it
> separate, I don't know yet. You can get by with just one, as long
as
> you adjust the length of the legs in a certain order.
> Also, I bought two items from RadioShack:
> - a power cord with a cigarette lighter plug on one end and an
> "Adaptaplug" socket on the other (catalog number 27-1558, $5.99)
> - an "Adaptaplug", size N (OD 5.5mm, ID 2.5mm, # 273-1717, $1.99)
> With these I can power the telescope from my car or, with a 12V DC
> power supply from a 120V AC receptacle "in the wall" (also from
> RadioShack, 12V nominal, 13.5V output at 1000 mA, # 22-501, $9.99).
> On
> one of the motors it says 15V, but I am pretty sure that 12V will
be
> sufficient, for the following reasons:
> 1. Both the DS114EC and the 4504 are supposed to be powered by 10
> 1.5V
> AA batteries (=15Volts), but for the DS114 you can get as an
> accessory
> a power cord similar to the one I made myself to plug into a 12V
> cigarette lighter. If the DS114 can get by with 12V, why shouldn't
> the
> 4504? Especially when you consider that the drives in the
altazimuth
> mount of the DS114 seem to be bigger then the 4504s...
> 2. The voltage of alkaline batteries falls pretty quickly down to
> 1.2-1.3V, where it is stable for a while before dying entirely. So
> most of the time, 10 AA batteries will only deliver 12-13V
> under load anyway.
> 10 alkaline AA batteries have a combined energy of around 10Wh, and
> they are supposed to deliver a 20 hour lifetime (although I have
> heard
> otherwise). That means that the combined power consumption of the
> drives and the handbox is about 0.5W, and at 15V this means a
current
> of only 33mA. This is probably an average determined by Meade, but
> the
> peak I think shouldn't be higher than say 300mA (GOTO back and
forth).
> If anybody has made any measurements on this, I would be glad to
hear
> about it. But I guess my 1000mA power supply should be sufficient.
> Do you guys go to places to explore the universe or do you do it in
> your backyard? Any problems with "light smog"?
> Does anybody live in metro Detroit and has hints where to go?
>
> Thomas

Sorry Billy, there has to be a Starfinder or Autostar interface to
operate the scope check; out http://www.weasner.com/etx/menu.html for
more info. Dick Seymor is a great resource for autostar and hence
starfinder issues on Weasner's site and he says that he may post the
pin out for an AUX rs232 after the holidays...other than that our
only option is to upgrade to the 495 or 497 Autostar..which I'm told
will operate our scopes. I have spent my budget on eps and accesories
but the 497 is definitely on my get list..they run about $149 but I
was told they sometimes go on sale..so I'm watching


--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "Billy Rycroft"
<brycroft@p...> wrote:
> Jim et all,
>
>  I just wanted to say thanks for this group. I have recently
acquired
> a 4504 Meade F/8 telescope, I am very excited about Amateur
Astronomy. I was
> worried about making modifications to my telescope for better
viewing and
> Amateur problems in general, but I think this forum will be a great
help. I
> also wanted to ask about the computer control for my telescope.
Apparently,
> I need to have a #495 Autostar for the computer interface, but I am
not sure
> this is absolutely true. Does anyone have a cable schematic so I
can bypass
> the autostar altogether?
>
> Thanks
> Billy
>
>
> Billy Rycroft
> IT Operations Manager
> Eclipse Aviation
> Phone: (505) 245-7555

Hello everyone,
my name is Thomas, am 31 years old and I am a mechanical engineer,
working for a Germany-based company on a 3 year contract in the
United states.
I recently bought a Meade 4504. Actually, I am one of the "Xmas"
members some of you predicted back in October...
Since I live in metro Detroit (at 10F outside and cloudy skies), I
haven't had a chance yet to try out my new (and first) telescope, but
I am looking forward to it.
Although I haven't used it yet, I have already been thinking about a
couple of improvements. I will definitely go for the 1.25" eyepieces
(thanks for the free-of-charge-adapter hint).
I purchased one small bubble level at Lowe's, which (most likely) I
will mount on one of the lugs on the tripod. Maybe I will keep it
separate, I don't know yet. You can get by with just one, as long as
you adjust the length of the legs in a certain order.
Also, I bought two items from RadioShack:
- a power cord with a cigarette lighter plug on one end and an
"Adaptaplug" socket on the other (catalog number 27-1558, $5.99)
- an "Adaptaplug", size N (OD 5.5mm, ID 2.5mm, # 273-1717, $1.99)
With these I can power the telescope from my car or, with a 12V DC
power supply from a 120V AC receptacle "in the wall" (also from
RadioShack, 12V nominal, 13.5V output at 1000 mA, # 22-501, $9.99).
On
one of the motors it says 15V, but I am pretty sure that 12V will be
sufficient, for the following reasons:
1. Both the DS114EC and the 4504 are supposed to be powered by 10
1.5V
AA batteries (=15Volts), but for the DS114 you can get as an
accessory
a power cord similar to the one I made myself to plug into a 12V
cigarette lighter. If the DS114 can get by with 12V, why shouldn't
the
4504? Especially when you consider that the drives in the altazimuth
mount of the DS114 seem to be bigger then the 4504s...
2. The voltage of alkaline batteries falls pretty quickly down to
1.2-1.3V, where it is stable for a while before dying entirely. So
most of the time, 10 AA batteries will only deliver 12-13V
under load anyway.
10 alkaline AA batteries have a combined energy of around 10Wh, and
they are supposed to deliver a 20 hour lifetime (although I have
heard
otherwise). That means that the combined power consumption of the
drives and the handbox is about 0.5W, and at 15V this means a current
of only 33mA. This is probably an average determined by Meade, but
the
peak I think shouldn't be higher than say 300mA (GOTO back and forth).
If anybody has made any measurements on this, I would be glad to hear
about it. But I guess my 1000mA power supply should be sufficient.
Do you guys go to places to explore the universe or do you do it in
your backyard? Any problems with "light smog"?
Does anybody live in metro Detroit and has hints where to go?

Thomas

Jim et all,

	 I just wanted to say thanks for this group. I have recently acquired
a 4504 Meade F/8 telescope, I am very excited about Amateur Astronomy. I was
worried about making modifications to my telescope for better viewing and
Amateur problems in general, but I think this forum will be a great help. I
also wanted to ask about the computer control for my telescope. Apparently,
I need to have a #495 Autostar for the computer interface, but I am not sure
this is absolutely true. Does anyone have a cable schematic so I can bypass
the autostar altogether?

Thanks
Billy


Billy Rycroft
IT Operations Manager
Eclipse Aviation
Phone: (505) 245-7555

At 05:36 AM 12/29/00 -0000, Jim wrote:

>plus to all of the other members.  I might suggest that you provide
>us with some photos showing the modifications you are making.

I'll take a few the next time I borrow the digital camera.

>What's your opinion of the Mead-supplied eyepieces?

Well, I don't have a frame of reference, never having owned a telescope and
not having looked through the eyepiece of one for several years.  We can
focus the 25mm eyepiece pretty well, but the 12.5 and 4mm won't give an
adequate focus.  Jupiter on the 4mm just barely revealed two bands, and
Saturn on the 4mm just barely showed Cassini's Division, but no detail on
the planet itself.  We haven't tried the Barlow yet (last night was not a
good night for observing) so I don't know how the 25+Barlow works.

I did a rough re-collimation just looking down the focusing tube, and am
making a combination collimating "eyepiece" like in the Collimation FAQ at

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~mbartels/kolli/kolli2.htm#mkcombination

so I can collimate it better.

I'm in a quandry about the eyepieces--I can't afford to get 1.25" eyepieces
now, but I hate to buy a better .973" 4mm (if there is such a beast) if
staying with .973" eyepieces is a dead end.  I would have rather it came
with two good 1.25" eyepieces like the British version, than the one "good"
and two marginal ones it did come with.

Best regards,

Randy

Randy Gordon-Gilmore  ,----.___________  ______________  _________________
ProtoTrains          // =   =  === ==  || ==   == == = || == == ==  = == =|
Rio Vista, CA, USA  /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o-----------o==o-'
zephyrus@...                    http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, Randy Gordon-Gilmore
<zephyrus@r...> wrote:
> Thanks for this forum, Jim!  SNIP>>
> On Megan's scope the declination setting circle is way off (about 4
> degrees) but I can't figure out how to adjust it.  It seems too far
off to
> tweak the pointer, and I'd rather set it properly anyway.
>
> Both the RA and declination "lock" thumbscrews push the axes off
when we
> tighten them.  Actually, so does the azimuth one.  I finally got a
hold of
> Meade technical service this afternoon, but they don't have an
> exploded-view drawing of the mount available.  The tech said that
the mount
> is "built elsewhere" which I take to mean that Meade buys them
blindly from
> a supplier.

READ CHINA
>
> Has anyone taken their mount apart yet?  I don't really feel like
being the
> first one.
>
HI Randy..I have taken the mount apart for the same reason you
describe..you won't like what you find.The locking thumbscrews act
against a soft round aluminum disk and are apparently harder than the
aluminum because they distort the disk and creat an uneven
surface..hence they "push" the axis out of alignment when tightened.
Since the entire system is one piece I could not think of a simple or
effective fix other than replacing the entire mount..and you end up
with the same problem.BTW when you take the mount apart be sure you
tilt it down as far as you can since there are two washers(1 metal, 1
Plastic) and a spring disk that will fall out if you don't..its
easier to put back together also. Disassemble the Dec part by
removing the OTA, the weight and rod, the end cap holding the rod
(three small phillips srews...carefully) and rotate the entire
assemply so you can see the nut from above and unscrew it..note the
washer positions and remove. firmly pull the assembly.Be sure you
loosen the thumbsrews. The dec setting ring can be carefully
repunched to improve but not "fix" its position( you'll see what I
mean)

Perhaps with your ME bacground you can figure out a suitable fix..?

> One of the thumbscrew holes in the eyepiece adapter is stripped.
Meade is
> sending a replacement (unfortunately, I didn't know when I called
about the
> 1.25" adapter offer, or I'd have asked for one of them also).

DEFINITELY go to the 1.25 ep's you will not believe the improved
view..
>
> The next accessory we get will probably be a Daisy reflex sight
like
>
> http://home.att.net/~jblessin/daisy.htm

OR try a Telrad..I love mine(about $40)
>
> That and I'm going to make LED flashers for the tripod legs (we are
running
> into them way too much!)

Good idea
>
> Oh, and velcro.  Lots of velcro to hold stuff (we've already
learned not to
> velcro the controller to the tube, because pulling it off disturbs
the
> pointing...

I put velcro on all three legs so I can put the controller close, no
matter where the scope is oriented..
>
> When I was on the phone with Meade this afternoon, I asked about a
power
> supply for the drive.  He said that a 12V, 1A DC supply was
appropriate.
> Good news, since 12V are way more common than 15V (and I have one
> already...)

They originally said you had to have 15vdc and a min 1.5 amp
supply..But I use a "regulated" 12vdc 2 amp with no problems.. I
tried a 15vdc radoi shack 2 amp but it was putting out 18.37 vdc and
it caused all sorts of weird things to happen(don't go there..AND be
SURE the connection is Center +)The dc plug is a 2.5mm x 5.5mm..it
also helps if its a 90 degree type.

>
> All in all, I'm really impressed with this telescope.
SNIP>

It is a good entry level scope if you are willing to tweak its weak
points..I'm having a great time with mine

Read the manual carefully to understand the tracking and GOTO
feature..I know they are not well written but most of what you are
experiencing with the polar alignment and tracking is answered
there..I honestly had to read and reread them a number of times
before they began to make sense..A couple of quick tips..Polaris is
your friend, once you find this star you've got it made because
unlike everthing else in the sky it doesn't MOVE( or not much anyways)
Set one leg of the tripod directly at it..level the mount(very
important)BTW i usually do this early while its still light
out..scope needs to cool down to the ambient anyways.Set the dec to
90* and the RA so that the weight rod is centered with the leg
pointing N( do not use a compass..that is magnetic N, unless you know
the true N adjustment for your locaction)When it gets dark enough to
see Polaris use the azm and lat adjustments to put the star in the ep
( use the low power 25mm)..plug in the battery pack or power supply
and set the date and time ACCURATELY( I'm assuming you entered the
location info at the initioalization accurately)At the align one star
display press enter..now some may disagree but I ignore the German
north part and just press enter to bypass it..the scope will slew on
the RA axis quite a bit..WAIT til it BEEPS..CENTER polaris in the ep
WITHOUT using the arrow keys as instructed on the display(az and lat
is usually all you need)Press enter whenPolaris is centered..This is
were I find the Telrad helps alot..It will search for a bright star
and slew to the area..Wait til it BEEPS..this time use the arrow keys
to center the star..it Will be the brightest in that part of the
sky..press enter and you should get a alignment successfull message.

It helps if you keep it simple at first so I would start with Jupiter
and Saturn as my goto targets Objects/solarsystem menu..as you get
more comfortable and learn the sky and the little bugs that seem to
crop up randomly you will start finding it easier to navigate the
menu system and hence the other pretty things way out there..

Hope this helps

Wayne

> zephyrus@r...                    http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus

Randy,

I'm glad you've found this group, and I hope it will be useful to
you.  Yes, I do expect there will be a number of new members as a
result of Christmas telescopes.  Your suggestions are already a big
plus to all of the other members.  I might suggest that you provide
us with some photos showing the modifications you are making.

What's your opinion of the Mead-supplied eyepieces?

Jim

Thanks for this forum, Jim!  I guess I'm the first of a new wave of
members, my wife having bought a 4504 at Costco as a Christmas present for
our 15-year-old daughter Megan, who loves it.  I just discovered this list
this evening.  Two nights ago, I found Michael Weasner's ETX Technical Tips
page, which gave some tips too.

I'm a mechanical engineer and wannabe ATM, and when my daughter and I were
assembling the scope I noticed a number of areas that could stand
improvement.  I'm trying to work as much as possible with the components
that already came with the scope, instead of immediately swapping in new
parts.  This is our family's first telescope (I never got beyond
rough-grinding a mirror myself back in high school).

The finder mount is a neat idea, if only the slots in the mount accurately
fitted the finder tube.  As it is, there is a whole lot of slop.  I turned
it into a 3-point mount.  First, I Dremeled out the flat ribs from the
inside of the rings, so that the inside diameters were unobstructed.  I
took out the thumbscrews, and drilled and tapped a hole in each ring at the
apex (opposite the base), and another on the underside of each ring
opposite from the existing lower hole.  I realize that the two lower holes
are only 90 degrees apart rather than 120, but it doesn't hurt adjusting
the finder any and holds it plenty secure.  The thumbscrews (and also on
the eyepiece adapter) are 10-32 nylon thumbscrews, available at most
hardware stores.  The ones I have are white and have a larger head, but
that doesn't really matter.

The second finder problem, is that the mount rocked on the base.  I noticed
that the two brass threaded inserts had been inserted incorrectly in the
plastic base, and protruded so that the finder mount was able to rock
sideways on them.  I have a small Radio Shack 15-watt soldering iron with a
pointy tip, and used it to poke the inserts out from below.  They came out
cleanly.  Each insert has two rows of ribs on the outside, but one end is
smooth.  That is to allow it to enter the hole smoothly and be centered.  I
re-inserted the inserts from underneath the plate (as they should have been
in the first place), just deep enough that they were not protruding from
the bottom.  When the plastic had re-solidified, I trimmed off the
oozed-out part from both the top and bottom of the plate and reassembled.
The mount now seats solidly on the base as it is supposed to.

The eyepiece of the finder is a sloppy fit in its threads.  I put on about
3 wraps of Teflon pipe tape, which firmed that up a lot.  The crosshairs
still aren't quite centered, and the finder alignment suffers a little
whenever we refocus it.

On Weasner's Technical Tips, I read about the tripod leg braces (and Tony
Miles' homemade version).  Realizing that what they do is sqeeze the
outer/upper legs against the inner/lower leg, and having a roll of the thin
metal strap material for putting up garage door openers (with all the holes
punched in it) I made my own quick version of a hose clamp, lined with
adhesive-backed felt that  you put on the bottom of bookends, and 1/4-20
bolts and wingnuts I had in my hardware collection (which is a 1-gallon
icecream container full of nails, bolts, nuts, drawer pulls and everything
else I've ever run across)  Even my "wimpy" clamps do a fine job of
steadying the legs, and took about 20 minutes to make.  I'll probably make
a proper set of "sturdy" ones but for now I'm going for most improvement
for least effort.

I found that the three lugs on the tripod head on Megan's scope are flat
with each other.  I have several round bubble levels, the kind you used to
use on audio turntables.  Putting a level on each lug gave the same
reading, so I just double-sticky-taped one on one of the lugs.

On Megan's scope the declination setting circle is way off (about 4
degrees) but I can't figure out how to adjust it.  It seems too far off to
tweak the pointer, and I'd rather set it properly anyway.

Both the RA and declination "lock" thumbscrews push the axes off when we
tighten them.  Actually, so does the azimuth one.  I finally got a hold of
Meade technical service this afternoon, but they don't have an
exploded-view drawing of the mount available.  The tech said that the mount
is "built elsewhere" which I take to mean that Meade buys them blindly from
a supplier.

Has anyone taken their mount apart yet?  I don't really feel like being the
first one.

One of the thumbscrew holes in the eyepiece adapter is stripped.  Meade is
sending a replacement (unfortunately, I didn't know when I called about the
1.25" adapter offer, or I'd have asked for one of them also).

The next accessory we get will probably be a Daisy reflex sight like

http://home.att.net/~jblessin/daisy.htm

That and I'm going to make LED flashers for the tripod legs (we are running
into them way too much!)

Oh, and velcro.  Lots of velcro to hold stuff (we've already learned not to
velcro the controller to the tube, because pulling it off disturbs the
pointing...

When I was on the phone with Meade this afternoon, I asked about a power
supply for the drive.  He said that a 12V, 1A DC supply was appropriate.
Good news, since 12V are way more common than 15V (and I have one
already...)

All in all, I'm really impressed with this telescope.  The motor drives are
a blessing given the flimsiness of the whole thing.  The first night we
used the scope before we had the motor drives installed, and it was a real
pain to try to keep an object in view.  Manual tweaking of the position
wasn't really successful, because I can't leave the locks on partway to
give some drag but still allow turning the scope.

But last night with the motors, observing Jupiter and Saturn with the 4mm
eyepiece was really neat.  We haven't gotten the GOTO to work yet, I think
because of the uncertainty of doing the polar alignment, but at least
having it approximately track the object and tweak it with the buttons, we
kept each planet in the field of view for as long as we desired.

I'll be interested to hear of any "long-timers'" experience with the scope,
and also to hear from any other new owners.

Best regards,

Randy

Randy Gordon-Gilmore  ,----.___________  ______________  _________________
ProtoTrains          // =   =  === ==  || ==   == == = || == == ==  = == =|
Rio Vista, CA, USA  /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o-----------o==o-'
zephyrus@...                    http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus

I folks..
Just found you and hope the group is still active..?
Bought my 4504 end of Sept and yes have upgraded the ep's to 1.25's
and a few other minor mods.

I'm also a member of the StarryNight egroup and I have enjoyed
sharing my experiences and opinions of the 4504 with the saa crowd.

As a newbie amatuer astronomy buff and a fan of the 4504 I hope my
joining this egroup benefits us all.

Wayne A. Scharphorn

hi i have a meade 4.5" reflector model 114eq-dh4
brand new... im trying to sell it...
it comes with 3 eyepieces, 1 3x barlow. NO MOUNT
msg me if interested

Hi,

I purchased the 4504 at Costco while they had their $50 discount
coupon offer. This is really quite a good deal, even if it didn't
have the GOTO capabilities.

To be honest, I really only bought the scope for the GOTO mount. I'm
using the mount with a Celestron C-5 and also intend to use it with a
Stellarvue 80 f/6 when it arrives. But the 4.5" Meade reflector that
is a part of the 4504 package is really not a bad scope, especially
when used with a decent 1.25" eyepiece. The 1.25" adapter is a must,
as is a replacement finder, but the focuser is not bad for something
made completely out of plastic.

All in all, I think the 4504 is a sleeper of a product, especially
for someone on a budget. They still have tons of these scopes at my
local Costco at the $250 price. I don't understand why they aren't
just flying off the shelves.

George

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "John Yeh" <hwyeh@h...> wrote:
> I just created a page on the modification of Meade 4504.  I also
> showed the difference between the .965" and 1.25" eyepiece.
>
> http://members.home.net/wmaphoto/4504mod.htm
>
> John Yeh

John,

Thanks for the information.  I found that the URL links in your web
page(s) were incorrectly formatted.  You might want to check them.

They each contained your home web site location at the beginning (see
below).

http://members.home.net/wmaphoto/www.scopetronix.com
should have been
http://www.scopetronix.com

http://members.home.net/wmaphoto/www.poconoscopes.com
should have been
http://www.poconoscopes.com

etc.

Jim

I just created a page on the modification of Meade 4504.  I also
showed the difference between the .965" and 1.25" eyepiece.

http://members.home.net/wmaphoto/4504mod.htm

John Yeh

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "John Yeh" <hwyeh@h...> wrote:
> I ditched my .965 eyepieces after seeing the 1.25" eyepieces.   ...

John,

I for one, and I suspect others as well, would love to learn the
technical details of how you made your modifications.  Could you
either point us to the technical sources that led you to make the
changes and/or write up for us a step-by-step instruction on how to
do it?

In particular, what's "microflexing" a telescope, and how do you do
it?

Have you had any experience with Harry Siebert's eyepieces?

Jim Griggs
Richland, WA

I ditched my .965 eyepieces after seeing the 1.25" eyepieces.  I wear
glasses, the .965's just not good enough.  At the time,
www.scopetronix.com had a sale on plssol eyepieces, any 3 for $100.
I got a 40mm, 25mm, 15mm. I also got a 2x barlow, which was also on
sale.  Later I purchased the 6mm that is still on sale now.  Since
Meade assured me that the mirrors on the 4504 is identical to the
DS114, I figure by changing the eyepieces I can achieve the optical
quality of DS114 and still come out ahead.  The new eyepieces are
very nice.  I managed to take some photos of Jupiter and Saturn w/
them on my first night out,  look under guest planet section at
www.weasner.com/etx .  I've since disassemble the eyepieces and
barlow and painted the edges of the lenses black.  This reduces the
internal reflection of the eyepieces.

I've also been experimenting w/ adapting my SLR lens onto my digital
camera by using the eyepieces,  http://members.home.net/wmaphoto
this is when I started to notice some chromatic abberation of these
eyepieces.

On my other experiment, microflexing the telescope.  I've also notice
some chromatic abberation of the eyepiece when I push the
magnification to 300x.  since my newly flexed mirror is performing
beyond what Meade had originally designed,  I'm starting to notice
more and more little problems that were masked by the original design.

I'm starting to consider the Lanthanum line of eyepiece from vixen.
They are claimed to be minimum chromatic abberation.  You can get
these from orion.  I'm also toying w/ ideas of building my own from
Edmund scientifics raw lens or get some surplus lens from
www.surplushack.com

John Yeh





--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "James R. Griggs"
<jrgriggs01@a...> wrote:
> I'd like to start a discussion about the standard eyepieces that
are
> provided with the Meade 4504.  I've had my telescope for about
three
> months, and honestly, I've only used it on about four occasions.
But
> the limited time I've spent with it makes me believe that the
> eyepieces are less-than optimal.  I've also heard this in some
> reviews about low-priced telescopes.
>
> The images from all but the largest (I think it's 24 mm) are pretty
> fuzzy.
>
> I am in the process of buying new eyepieces of higher quality, and
> will report to you my impressions of those I have purchased.  I
have
> decided to go with 1.25" eyepieces instead of the smaller 0.965"
> eyepieces provided by Meade.  Meade Customer Service will send you,
> free of charge, a 1.25" eyepiece holder upgrade.  Just call them on
> their customer service number listed at www.meade.com.
>
> I purchased a 12.5 mm eyepiece from Siebert optics, but haven't
tried
> it yet.

I'd like to start a discussion about the standard eyepieces that are
provided with the Meade 4504.  I've had my telescope for about three
months, and honestly, I've only used it on about four occasions.  But
the limited time I've spent with it makes me believe that the
eyepieces are less-than optimal.  I've also heard this in some
reviews about low-priced telescopes.

The images from all but the largest (I think it's 24 mm) are pretty
fuzzy.

I am in the process of buying new eyepieces of higher quality, and
will report to you my impressions of those I have purchased.  I have
decided to go with 1.25" eyepieces instead of the smaller 0.965"
eyepieces provided by Meade.  Meade Customer Service will send you,
free of charge, a 1.25" eyepiece holder upgrade.  Just call them on
their customer service number listed at www.meade.com.

I purchased a 12.5 mm eyepiece from Siebert optics, but haven't tried
it yet.

I got better GOTO accuracy my making sure that my scope is perfectly
flat.  I mounted 3 X-Y bubble levels on top of each tripod leg.  I
only read one of bubble on each level.  Because I'm trying to level
the other 2 legs, not the leg that I'm doing the reading.  Repeat
this on all 3 levels, and you scope will be level.  You can get even
better accuracy by following the instruction at the end of the
included video.  But I find that polar align by using the polar
images on the starry night software as reference to be easier.

I've notice that my RA axis is off.  I'll play around w/ gear ration
in the hand controller and post my findings here.

John Yeh

Hi!

I've added two new database tables to the Meade4504Telescopes group
on eGroups.com.  One table contains the manufacturer and model of the
telescope(s) owned by the memebers of the group.  The other contains
details of problems people have found with their telescopes, and the
solutions they have implemented.

Jim Griggs

Well, it appears that we are both in the same situation.

I just picked up a EQ114 last Sunday. Its a Meaded I imagine a cheaper
version Meaded put out. It to has a star finder And I am trying to figure it
out.

I think I have it figured but tonight I will know for sure, Its going to be
cool but as of 6am clear.

Its going to be fun trying to learn as I am a 46year old starter in Astronomy.

Bill

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, RVenneman@a... wrote:
> Well, our first attempt to look at the moon after purchasing the
the
> telescope 10 days ago (no moon) was successful. We did use the
H25mm and got
> a great view. (I guess you guys can tell we are new 51 year old
users...)
>
> I am having problems aligning the site scope. Anyone have any hints
on how
> they have adjusted the site scope?
>
> Also, is there any tips on finding a "englishesse" version of the
> instructions for using the Starfinder (Actually, I have
instructions but they
> are written in a tech language that is really hard to understand.
>
> I hope not to bother the group with beginner's questions.
>
> Richard Venneman
> 265 Main Street
> South Amboy, NJ 08879

Richard,

I think we're all pretty new at this.  I've only had my 4504 a few
months and am in the process of getting new (and better than the
originals that came from Meade) eyepieces.  As far as the
instructions go, you'll just have to struggle through the manual.  It
may take rereading the entire manual from cover-to-cover a time or
two before all of the terminology sinks in.

I've had limited success doing the calibration so that the "GoTo"
features work properly.  But I haven't spent the time with my scope
that I think it takes.

Happy viewing!

Jim Griggs
Richland, WA

--- In Meade4504Telescopes@egroups.com, "Hung-Wei Yeh" <hwyeh@h...>
wrote:
> Has anyone bought one of these baby at the costco's sales price of
$199?
>
> I purchased one from Costco about a month and a half ago, I've
since change
> the eyepiece, barlow,  8x50 finder, added a red dot finder,
reinforced the
> motor drive mount, reinforced the tripod, added an electric
focuser.  I've
> manage to take some pictures of Jupiter and Saturn w/ the Nikon
CP990.

I'd be interested in hearing the details about how you made all of
these modifications.

Jim Griggs

Well, our first attempt to look at the moon after purchasing the the
telescope 10 days ago (no moon) was successful. We did use the H25mm and got
a great view. (I guess you guys can tell we are new 51 year old users...)

I am having problems aligning the site scope. Anyone have any hints on how
they have adjusted the site scope?

Also, is there any tips on finding a "englishesse" version of the
instructions for using the Starfinder (Actually, I have instructions but they
are written in a tech language that is really hard to understand.

I hope not to bother the group with beginner's questions.

Richard Venneman
265 Main Street
South Amboy, NJ 08879

Has anyone bought one of these baby at the costco's sales price of $199?

I purchased one from Costco about a month and a half ago, I've since change
the eyepiece, barlow,  8x50 finder, added a red dot finder, reinforced the
motor drive mount, reinforced the tripod, added an electric focuser.  I've
manage to take some pictures of Jupiter and Saturn w/ the Nikon CP990.  I've
posted some of the images at  www.weasner.com .

My next project is to flex the primary as per the 11/00 article in sky &
telescope.  I figure that I'll just do a center pull w/ click bond fastener.
Flex software from Alan Adler shows that I can achieve 1/24 wavelength w/
this method.  Except for the click bond fastener, everything else is
available from my local home depot.  Stay tune.

John Yeh

Hi.  I see that we now have three members in the Meade4504Telescopes
group on eGroups.com.  Glad to have you onboard.

Let's get a dialogue going about your telescopes.  I have a 4504 that
I purchased about three months ago.  I'm not satisfied with the
eyepieces and am slowly acquiring better quality pieces.

If you haven't already done so, you may wish to call Meade customer
service to request a free upgrade eyepiece holder that will accept
1.25" eyepieces instead of the .965" eyepieces that come with the
telescope.

Jim Griggs
Richland, WA