Greetings Permies,

I'd just like to quickly announce that the Sierra Permaculture Guild
is now forming and a new website is now up at
http://SierraPermaculture.org If you're an experienced permie, just
learning, or want to plug into the scene, please drop on by! Don't
miss the ever-growing list of links as well as a groovy online
(YouTube) permavid featuring Bill Mollison that we just added.

Of course, the Sierra Permaculture listserve is still going and the
main networking point for permies in the Sierra Nevada bioregion. You
can sign-up for the list at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SierraPermaculture and either post
your events or just plain find out about permahappenings in these neck
of the woods, ask for help or technical assistance, swap seeds and
plants, or organize work parties and other gatherings.

An upcoming gathering is in the works for the Grass Valley / Nevada
City area, so stay tuned.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing from ya!

Whirled Peas,
Gryphon
Sierra Permaculture Guild
http://SierraPermaculture.org

Mark,

I've heard similar criticisms regarding the cost of Pc courses in the
past. Of course every situation is different, but as far as I
understand it, RDI does not own the land the event is being hosted at.
Commonweal is a non-profit organization that studies illness and helps
people suffering with cancer: http://www.commonweal.org I am sure that
Commonweal's property taxes are high (unless they baought it aeons
ago), but I'm sure they're getting very little of the tuition money
for their own expenses -- mostly they'll be getting lots of free Pc
work on their property done in return for use of the land.

But think about this: for a two-week intensive course taught by three
main instructors, plus about 4 guest instructors, plus all meals for
the two weeks and materials, there really isn't much slush to go
around. Everyone should be paid a fair wage for their work and if
they're helping to insure that Pc knowledge continues to get taught
and shared, all the better.

There may be some work/trade opportunities offred in lieu of a portion
of tuition, but I don't know for sure, so contact RDI directly if you
have any questions.

Many Blessings,
Gryphon


--- In NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A. Craig"
<mark.a.craig@...> wrote:
>
> I wish these things weren't so horrendously expensive; I'd like to
> participate in some of them, and I have ample time to do it right
now.  With
> them operating from a 17-acre farm right on the Marin coast
(absolute prime
> real estate), I really have to wonder about their priorities?  Is
that why
> the courses have to cost so much, to pay down their extravagant
choice of
> locale?
>
> Are there any workshops like this that are more egalitarian or
hostel-like
> and don't cost an arm and a leg and one's firstborn?
>
> Mark

Permaculture Design Certification Course Intensive

June 16-30, 2007

INSTRUCTORS: Penny Livingston-Stark & Brock Dolman
with guest instructors Geoff Lawton, Starhawk , James Stark, Jon Young
and others.

LOCATION - Commonweal Garden, Bolinas, CA

     * Re-design Your Life
     * Re-envision The World
     * Learn how to create the world you want to live in
     * Transform your life towards sustainability and abundance

During this two-week intensive design course work, we will explore how
to observe natural systems and apply permaculture principles which are
rooted in ecologically sound whole systems design. We will learn to
apply them to our designs for integrating homes and gardens, energy
and water systems.
The course will also weave together permaculture with wilderness
awareness skills- learning bird language and tracking. Participants
will get involved in routines and activities that deepen our awareness
and intimacy with the rest of the natural world.

Some unique attributes to this particular course include, tidepooling,
milking goats, mushroom cultivation, chi gung, cheesemaking and
creating community in a budding spring fed permaculture farm. Added
bonus: shared time and music and singing around the camp fire.

     * Permaculture Principles & Ethics
     * Reading the Landscape
     * Pattern & Pattern Application
     * Water Harvesting
     * Swale building
     * Zone & Sector Analysis
     * Climate and Micro Climate
     * Earth Energy
     * Mapping
     * Urban Permaculture
     * Community Land Trusts
     * Plant Guilds
     * The Design Process, principles, strategies and techniques
     * Bird Language, Nature Awareness and Tracking
     * Soil Building & Sheet Mulching
     * Ponds
     * Earthworks and Natural Building
     * Grey water systems
     * Bioremediation
     * Renewable energy systems
     * Forestry
     * Watershed Managemen

Hands-on exercises can include a variety of activities such as outdoor
observation, construction, planting, plastering, site tours, cheese
making, sheet mulching, mapping, and others.

Hands-on exercises can include a variety of activities such as outdoor
observation, construction, planting, plastering, site tours, cheese
making, sheet mulching, mapping, and others.

Students also form teams to work on a specific site design together.

Graduates of the course receive the Permaculture Design Certificate.

Camping accommodation and delicious gourmet food are part of the
course and included in the course fees.

Primary Instructors
Penny Livingston-Stark & Brock Dolman
Also, Specical Guest Instructor Geoff Lawton

Additional Instructors

James Stark
Starhawk
Jon Young
and others
Location
The permaculture design certification intensive will take place at the
Permaculture Institute's new home on a 17-acre farm on the ocean in
Bolinas. The farm is being transformed into a permaculture model of
human beings living in harmony with the earth. Nestled into its own
quiet valley, the site features a pond, grey water system, windmill,
green house, seasonal stream, springs, ranch house and a heritage
orchard and rose collection.

Course Fees
Included camping accommodations and delicious organic meals.

     * Early Bird Special!!! $1100 if paid by April 1st
     * $1350 paid by June 1st
     * $500 deposit due upon registration.

Final payment due June 1st. If payment is not received by June
1st, applicants may forfeit $100 administrative fee of their deposit
and position in course.
* No refunds after June 1st.

How to Apply
Download the application form (MS Word format) and return with a check
or money order made payable to RDI. You will receive a confirmation
via email with more details on what to bring, directions to the land,
and any useful information.

Please send payments to:

Regenerative Design Institute
P.O. Box 923
Bolinas, CA 94924

For questions or additional information, contact:
415·868 9681 voicemail

http://www.regenerativedesign.org/courses-events/permaculture-design-certificati\
on-course-intensive

Hi Mark,
wb. I just learned`that means welcome back. It's like
I have been just sitting here for months`waiting and
at 1:38 AM you finally return! But it isn't true, I
have moved from western Puerto Rico to a location in
the NW ern USA! I live close, but not too close, to
Seattle and the author of the debunker web site that
writes about people I used to admire.
Anyhow, congrates on the blog site! It looks
professional. It is nice to hear from you.
question: the real reason I am up is that skype is now
trying to charge me $15 a year for calls to the US and
Canada, so I was looking for a way to continue to make
free calls or to decide to pay the $15 before it turns
to $30 around 2007 Jan 31. I checked Yahoo but they
charge too now so I was going to check MSM, Google and
my fav, mozilla. Do you, or does anyone have any hot
tips on free or less than skype calls?
Shody



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

How far is Willits from Sacramento, again?  I know, I could find out myself,
but I'm trying to stay focused on matters at hand (and look at me,
responding to this when I shouldn't be).  Would a drive up from Sacramento
and back the same day even be feasible?

I'm not sure if it would even be possible for me to implement a green/grey
water system in my new home, because it's a condo governed by a homeowners'
association that has the power to deny any exterior work that doesn't meet
its standards....

Mark

----Original Message----
From: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Maximillian
Meyers
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:04 PM
To: sustainablesonoma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NorCalPermaculture] Tomorrow, Oct. 19, Rainwater Harvesting
Book Signing Tour in Willits!

> Hello everyone,
>
> This is just a friendly reminder that Brad Lancaster, author of
> "Rainwater Harvesting For Drylands" will be giving a lecture and slide
> show presentation on Rainwater Harvesting, explaining tools,
> techniques and resources for implementing sustainable water systems
> for your home, landscape, and community.
>
> Date: Oct. 19, 2006, Time: 7pm
> Location: Willits Community Center - 111 E. Commercial Street,
> Willits, CA 95490 $10 suggested donation.
>
> Hope to see you there...

Hello everyone,

This is just a friendly reminder that Brad Lancaster, author of
"Rainwater Harvesting For Drylands" will be giving a lecture and slide
show presentation on Rainwater Harvesting, explaining tools,
techniques and resources for implementing sustainable water systems
for your home, landscape, and community.

Date: Oct. 19, 2006, Time: 7pm
Location: Willits Community Center - 111 E. Commercial Street, Willits, CA 95490
$10 suggested donation.

Hope to see you there...

Fortunately, I'm not the only bright and reasonably skeptical person who has
a problem with all the hype about alternative energies.  This article in
Popular Mechanics lays out the real case against the promised hydrogen
economy, for one (because even our resident Presidential fanatic couldn't
resist weighing in on that one):

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4199381.html

This article makes some of the same general points that I've said, for
instance:

"And there's the rub: Using dirty energy to make clean energy doesn't solve
the pollution problem-it just moves it around."

There's no magic pill to replace petroleum.

Mark

Gryphon (Tem?):

That sounds like an interesting and potentially educational event!  I won't
be able to make the trip myself, but I hope that someone there will act as
my proxy and make a sincere effort to cut through the very serious hype that
surrounds some of the touted alternatives to petroleum.  Having such a
discussion about the Post-Petrol Era - which  many of us know is coming - is
indeed a good thing, but only if dogma and fanaticism on BOTH SIDES of the
issue can be left at the door along with the pitchforks and knives and guns
that usually accompany such mental states.

My point, of course, is that there's dogma on the environmental side of the
issue as well, with various "high priests" preaching the virtuous perfection
of this or that alternative source of energy, in particular proclaiming them
as more sustainable than is petroleum.  I don't happen to agree with most
(if any) of those claims, because there's a simple fact of physics and
chemistry that their claims ignore:

It takes lots of energy to create any form of stored energy, AND ALWAYS MORE
INPUT THAN EVENTUAL OUTPUT.

Even with biodiesel and solar cells, which allegedly bring us the free
energy of the sun, there are energy inputs and secondary consequences which
will, especially once the liberal energy inputs of petroleum are gone,
render them just as unsustainable as petroleum.  In the case of biodiesel,
for instance, how does one grow enough biomass to create enough fuel to
replace petroleum one-for-one, while at the same time preserving current
farmland and crop yields to feed billions of humans, and doing so in the
face of the absence of petroleum-supported fertilizers and eventual soil
depletion?

I first cackled and then ranted when the idiot Ron Gremban made national
headlines by packing thousands of dollars worth of extra batteries in his
hybrid Prius and modding it for a wall socket, and then proclaiming to the
world that he was doing the environment an even bigger favor because he was
now burning so much less fossil fuel!  Yes, true, he was no longer burning
it HIMSELF in his vehicle... but every time he hooked it up to an electrical
outlet, a far-off power plant now had to BURN THAT FOSSIL FUEL FOR HIM, and
burn enough to also overcome the incredible attenuation that occurs trying
to get all that electricity down a copper wire to him.  All he managed to do
was shift the "crime" farther back up the supply chain!  Another fanatic
idiot guilty of tunnel vision and taking one factor completely out of
context.

Unless someone reins them in with cold hard logic, I suspect there will be a
lot of such antics at this event.  Such antics help no one except those
making the claims, who make themselves famous and line their pockets in much
the same way that their fellow Christian televangelists do.

The truth is, our species has been experiencing an energy flash in the pan,
racking up a stored-energy deficit that Mother Nature now wants back.  Who
do you suppose will win that civil suit?  We need to re-acclimate ourselves
with a horse-and-buggy world, in which ANY form of stored energy is a rare
and precious commodity, not one squandered with abandon on a daily basis.
Will we have to revert to a complete absence of electricity?  No, probably
not, but gone will be the massively wasteful globe-spanning power grids, to
be replaced by embarrasingly modest localized electricity generation created
on-site rather than 1000 miles away.  There won't be enough of it for
luxuries like neon signs and 24/7 streetlights or plasma televisions running
half the day, limitless cellphone minutes or fueling evenings of bar-hopping
or long excessive commutes.  Electricity will be valued more than gold, and
the world will be a dramatically different place.  For human society, the
world will stop shrinking and become once again a much larger place, filled
with lots of empty spaces rarely traversed by humans and lots of glorious
SILENCE.

Oh, and we'll no longer have the energy resources to effect space travel and
colonization on a large scale, once we've squandered all the "free"
petroleum before we've established energy-independent presences elsewhere.
We'll be stuck here; it's likely why we've met no aliens, because they made
the same mistakes and got trapped on their own third rocks from their suns.

I hope somebody in my absence has the foresight and forthrightness to speak
of these things, rather than let the dogmatists drown out the cold hard
truth and skew the debate into the realm of fantasy.  That is what's been
happening.

Mark

----Original Message----
From: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gryphon
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:25 PM
To: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NorCalPermaculture] "Whatcha Gonna Drive?” for a Sustainable
World

> "Whatcha Gonna Drive?" for a Sustainable World
> ... when fossil fuels are no longer an affordable option: Biofuels,
> Electric, Fuel Cell, Hybrids, or Bikes?
>
>     On Sunday, November 19, at the Center for the Arts in downtown
> Grass Valley, experts, hobbyists, and the simply curious will gather
> to try to answer these questions: What will replace fossil fuels as we
> move toward the post-petroleum era? What are the pros and cons of
> biofuels, fuel cell technology, and electric vehicles? Are hybrids the
> best way to go? What should your next car be? It seems everyone is
> talking about this lately.
>
>     APPLE of Nevada County (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local
> Economy) is hosting a two-part fundraising event. First, the free
> "Post-Petroleum Car and Bike Show" (2:00 - 6:00 pm) will fill the
> parking lot directly behind The Center for the Arts. On display will
> be plug-in hybrids, several electric cars, all types of bikes,
> segways, multi-fuel vehicles, and some unique inventions. (Wait 'til
> you see the J-Pod!) There will also be a portable biodiesel plant and
> local biodiesel suppliers at the event.
>
>     Along with the car show, a series of demonstrations and workshops
> by local and nationally recognized experts will be held inside the
> Center for the Arts starting at 2:00 pm. Topics include: Plug-In
> Hybrids – What's Under the Hood; Land Use and Biofuel Ethics; The Fine
> Points of Owning and Maintaining an Electric Car; What's Coming from
> the Big Automakers; and The Benefits of People-Powered Transportation.
>
>     Then, at 6:30 pm, in the main auditorium, APPLE will present
> "Fueling the Future." Two dynamic speakers, fuel-cell researcher Glenn
> Rambach and Executive Director of the Biodiesel Council of California,
> Kimber Holmes, will give illustrated presentations showing why we are
> on the brink of a massive change in personal transportation and the
> technologies available to help us make a sustainable transition. They
> will also explore how much we will need to alter our consumption
> habits. The evening will conclude with a panel discussion to field
> comments and questions from those in attendance.
>
>      There will also be information tables on APPLE projects and other
> local transportation-related groups, along with food, festivities,
> and fun!
>
>     More details on the program and an updated vehicle list is posted
> at www.apple-nc.org. Space is limited, and tickets are $13 in advance
> (or $15 at the event) for an all-day pass. Advance tickets may be
> purchased at: Briarpatch Market, Record Connection, Booktown Books,
> Yabobo, Harmony Books, After the Gold Rush, Plan-It Solar (Penn
> Valley), and Cherry Records (Auburn). To attend just the afternoon
> presentations or just the evening program is $10 (same-day purchase
> only). To find out more, call (530) 274-3435 or e-mail
> info@...
>
>     Also, some hybrid/electric car owners are organizing a parade,
> leaving the Rood Center at 1:30 and proceeding to downtown Grass
> Valley. For information on how to participate, call (530) 274-9913.
>
>
> For additional information, contact:
> Tem Tarriktar
> pcurrents@...
> website: www.apple-nc.org
> PO Box 163
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> 530.274.3435
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Shody Ryon
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:23 PM
To: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NorCalPermaculture]"Whatcha Gonna Drive?” for a Sustainable World

 

This guy charges his EV with batteries charged by solar panels and has received $4,000 from the government for building his EV.

http://greenplanet3.org/ev/

"Whatcha Gonna Drive?" for a Sustainable World
... when fossil fuels are no longer an affordable option: Biofuels,
Electric, Fuel Cell, Hybrids, or Bikes?

     On Sunday, November 19, at the Center for the Arts in downtown
Grass Valley, experts, hobbyists, and the simply curious will gather
to try to answer these questions: What will replace fossil fuels as we
move toward the post-petroleum era? What are the pros and cons of
biofuels, fuel cell technology, and electric vehicles? Are hybrids the
best way to go? What should your next car be? It seems everyone is
talking about this lately.

     APPLE of Nevada County (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local
Economy) is hosting a two-part fundraising event. First, the free
"Post-Petroleum Car and Bike Show" (2:00 - 6:00 pm) will fill the
parking lot directly behind The Center for the Arts. On display will
be plug-in hybrids, several electric cars, all types of bikes,
segways, multi-fuel vehicles, and some unique inventions. (Wait 'til
you see the J-Pod!) There will also be a portable biodiesel plant and
local biodiesel suppliers at the event.

     Along with the car show, a series of demonstrations and workshops
by local and nationally recognized experts will be held inside the
Center for the Arts starting at 2:00 pm. Topics include: Plug-In
Hybrids – What's Under the Hood; Land Use and Biofuel Ethics; The Fine
Points of Owning and Maintaining an Electric Car; What's Coming from
the Big Automakers; and The Benefits of People-Powered Transportation.

     Then, at 6:30 pm, in the main auditorium, APPLE will present
"Fueling the Future." Two dynamic speakers, fuel-cell researcher Glenn
Rambach and Executive Director of the Biodiesel Council of California,
Kimber Holmes, will give illustrated presentations showing why we are
on the brink of a massive change in personal transportation and the
technologies available to help us make a sustainable transition. They
will also explore how much we will need to alter our consumption
habits. The evening will conclude with a panel discussion to field
comments and questions from those in attendance.

      There will also be information tables on APPLE projects and other
local transportation-related groups, along with food, festivities, and
fun!

     More details on the program and an updated vehicle list is posted
at www.apple-nc.org. Space is limited, and tickets are $13 in advance
(or $15 at the event) for an all-day pass. Advance tickets may be
purchased at: Briarpatch Market, Record Connection, Booktown Books,
Yabobo, Harmony Books, After the Gold Rush, Plan-It Solar (Penn
Valley), and Cherry Records (Auburn). To attend just the afternoon
presentations or just the evening program is $10 (same-day purchase
only). To find out more, call (530) 274-3435 or e-mail info@...

     Also, some hybrid/electric car owners are organizing a parade,
leaving the Rood Center at 1:30 and proceeding to downtown Grass
Valley. For information on how to participate, call (530) 274-9913.


For additional information, contact:
Tem Tarriktar
pcurrents@...
website: www.apple-nc.org
PO Box 163
Grass Valley, CA 95945
530.274.3435

Northern California Book Signing Tour with Brad Lancaster, coming to
Willits, Oct. 19, 7pm!

The slideshow presentation and book signing will be held at the
Willits Community Center, 111 East Commercial St. $10 suggested
donation.

Brad Lancaster will explain various tools & techniques for
implementing sustainable water systems into your homes, landscapes,
and communities, using onsite resources. His newly published book
shares strategies for creating integrated water-sustainable landscape
plans with examples from around the world, some ancient, some new,
including the inspirational story of Mr. Phiri, water farmer from
Zimbabwe.

Brad Lancaster has been actively teaching, designing, and consulting
on the sustainable design systems of Permaculture and integrated
rainwater harvesting systems since 1993.

Presented by the Mendocino Ecological Learning Center, www.melc.us

Dear friends,

We just wanted to invite everyone to visit us on the web at http://www.melc.us or come to MELC and see what we are up to for yourselves! You may have seen the recent Willits News article (http://www.willitsnews.com/localnews/ci_4268284) about us and some of the programs, courses, classes and activities we offer relating to Sustainability and Permaculture. We are currently preparing for our 3^rd International Sustainable Skills Camp (ISSC) and have 12 people from 7 countries joining us to learn about Permaculture, Organic farming, Ecological Design, etc. This year's program themes are Waste water and Permaculture Design!

MELC desperately needs donations to fund this program and we are asking for your tax deductible donations or memberships to better support our work. Please take a moment to give what you can online at http://www.melc.us/donate, you may also send your donation or become a member, its easy, just fill out the membership form below and email or send to:

MELC                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   4651 Bear Canyon Road                                                                                                                                                       Willits, CA. 95490

Thank you for your interest and all your generous support!

Kind regards,

Maximillian Meyers

Director MELC

http://www.melc.us

max@...

2006 MELC membership

Yes, I'd like to nourish the Mendocino Ecological Learning Center with a gift of:

 $25 Manzanita membership (Basic benefits)

 $50 Pine membership (Manzanita benefits plus 15% discount at plant sales)

 $100 Fir membership (Pine benefits plus $40 dollars off one MELC workshop)

 $250 Oak membership (Fir benefits plus one free book from our reading list)

 $500 Madrone membership (Oak benefits plus $100 off one MELC course)

 $1000+ Redwood membership (Oak benefits plus $250 off one MELC course and a movie of your choice from film list)   

Basic one year membership benefits include: free subscription to "Patterns" the MELC newsletter, free admission to tours, nature walks and special events, as well as access to our technical support team, who will be happy to answer your questions relating to sustainable living.

Name___________________________________________________________________

Address_________________________________________________________________

City/State/Zip____________________________________________________________

Phone____________________________(Home)__________________________ (Work)

Email__________________________________________________________________

Book or Movies Title(s)____________________________________________________

Available book titles:

Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway

The Hand-Sculpted House by Ianto Evens, Michael G. Smith and Linda Smiley

Seeds of Deception by Jeffery M. Smith

The Man Who Planted Trees by Jean Giono

The New Solar Electric Home by Joel Davidson and Fran Orner

Films offered by MELC:

The Global Gardener, Bill Mollison, 120mins. VHS (1991)

Farming With Nature, Sepp and Veronika Holzer, 37mins. VHS (2000)

Aquaculture, Sepp Holzer, 30 min. VHS (2002)

The End of Suburbia, Gregory Greene, 78 minutes. DVD (2004)

 
All donations are tax deductible and used solely for the specified purposes of The Mendocino Ecological Learning Center. Please make checks payable to "MELC." Mail to:

MELC 4651 Bear Canyon Road Willits, CA 95490 or donate with credit card/paypal at http://www.melc.us

Hi friends,
We wanted to let everyone know that our website is now fully updated!

See http://www.melc.us

There you will find information about our organization, our programs,
classes, workshops and activities...

Hope you enjoy!

Kind regards,
Maximillian Meyers (Director, Mendocino Ecological Learning Center)

Hi friends,
Just thought I would let you know about the Natural waste water
filtration workshop at MELC.

Date: June 24-25, 9am - 5pm

Location: MELC, http://www.melc.us

Download registration form online at http://www.melc.us/calendar.html

Kind regards,
Maximillian Meyers (Director MELC)

Hi Mark and everyone,
I think this could become a real group. what is the
purpose of a placeholder, are you working you way up
to near the front of the category as other groups drop
out?

I have a few questions and statements that are really
questions. I would like the peoples opinions if anyone
has time to answer or state their opinion or
preference.

I did a search of earth domes and apparently some
people believe the calearth domes do not do well in
wet locations. I heard of one earth dome that grew a
lot of (inches to possibly a foot deep) white mold
from the earthen (local mud finished with boiled (?)
linseed oil and ash) floor. I was there before the
mold came. The floor was fantastic; it seemed to
spring and vibrate with each step. I was sorry to hear
of the mold problems that occurred later, however the
design counted on an unproven theory that the water
would follow the layers of rock away from the surface
of the ground and into the ground, therefore
additional drainage had not been provided for. Any
structure built in that location without providing
drainage would have had the same problem, I think.
If the dome is located in such a way that a
traditional French drain can be installed around the
circumference in a way that will drain ground water
away from the structure with an appropriate below
grade slope and drainage leading away and down ward
from the structure I would think a dome would do OK in
a wet area. The French drain would, of course, be
installed at a lower elevation than the floor which
might be 3 to 4' below grade. I guess the walls are
usually built only slightly below grade, but what if
the walls were built at floor level and plastic pond
liner or some other water proofing, such as high
concentration Portland cement (so as to create
waterproofness) mortar was placed on the exterior of
the below grade walls. Serious excavation! Some
builders might tend to cut corners, or not believe in
commercial products.

Granted the earthen domes are usually small by
standard American house sizes (that is done by the
owner’s choice. They are sound up to 50’ in diameter
(perhaps larger if engineered). The few cob domes I
have seen look tiny, like token features in entry
halls, not living spaces. Has anyone seen or know
about a large (24’ diameter, 2 story) cob dome?

Shody

--- "Mark A. Craig" <mark.a.craig@...> wrote:

> qi4u/Mr. Ryon:
>
> You know, I never intended for this to be a "real"
> group originally (only a
> demonstration and placeholder), but you're now the
> fourth member and it's
> starting to seem like it should be treated as real.
> Maybe it has a life of
> its own now?
>
> So, welcome.  Your profile states that you're
> involved with greenhouses; do
> you operate some, build them, or...?  I personally
> have a deep love of
> tropicals and other "weird" supremely adapted
> plants, like insectivorous
> species, and I've long dreamed of having a
> greenhouse or two... or better
> yet just living in Costa Rica.
>
> The last fellow to join before you is deeply into
> earthen construction and
> related things, I gather.  That's been my other
> dream, to build my own
> permaculture home.  So, how about earthen
> greenhouses?  :-)
>
> Mark
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:17 PM
> Subject: New NorCalPermaculture member
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is an automated email message to let you know
> that
> > qi4u <qi4u@...> joined your
> NorCalPermaculture
> > group.
> >
>
>


__________________________________________________
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I have installed part of an irrigation system (it is
not finished, but the part that is, is operational)
for a greenhouse that grows wheatgrass, sunflower
greens, mung and adzuki greens which are grown in a
compost/coir (soon Planters II will be part of the
mix) growing medium and harvested 6 days after
germination. The organization I work for purchased a
used greenhouse 5.8 meters wide, 15 meters long by 3
meters high to 4.1 meters in the center high and we
moved it and set it up and grew some of the best
lettuce I have ever seen in it. I am interested in
joining up with a group of people who like earth
building, alternative or locally produced energy,
agriculture and sustainability and see how far we can
take this.

I am interested in earth building but I do not
understand why so many people are building cob.
Perhaps someone in this group could explain the
attraction/benefits of cob over the super adobe “bag”
constructed earthen domes of calearth.org? I think
these are the best earthen structures.
As far as earthen greenhouses goes, as far as I can
tell, they either need a lot of glass for collecting
light and heat in cold temperatures (in moderate
temperatures these will need very good cooling systems
if lettuce or cold weather crops are to be grown),
frames to hold shade cloth (which doubles as insect
screen which is very helpful in growing organically)
and these frames are not so conducive to earthen
building, as far as I can tell or highly insolated
[low light (?)] artificially lit greenhouses in which
all growing parameters are controlled and are
artificial (?).

Having said that, Oak grove school in Ojai, CA, where
my mom works part time, has an earthen backed and
lower ˝ sided southward facing glass faced greenhouse
that looks to have been inspired by earthship houses
which have the same and now are putting more features
into the greenhouse aspect (and making the greenhouse
part a little larger) of their designs. I still think
earthen domes are better, unless perhaps living in
northern Europe or Alaska, but I think they would
still be better there as well. The igloo is very
similar to an earthen dome, in concept.

Presently I live in Puerto Rico and have been planting
an organic orchard of avocado, mango, papaya, banana,
coconut, and some exotic fruits which I don’t know how
to spell on about 2 acres. It looks like this
organization will be obtaining 14.5 acres and planting
another organic orchard.

I need a break (perhaps for a long time) from Puerto
Rico and am looking for low cost “situation” for me
and my girlfriend Tao Hannah, who is from FL but has
lived and worked here for 15 years. I am from CA and
came here in 2001 but miss the health food culture of
CA. We are headed to CA in a few weeks.

Shody

--- "Mark A. Craig" <mark.a.craig@...> wrote:

> qi4u/Mr. Ryon:
>
> You know, I never intended for this to be a "real"
> group originally (only a
> demonstration and placeholder), but you're now the
> fourth member and it's
> starting to seem like it should be treated as real.
> Maybe it has a life of
> its own now?
>
> So, welcome.  Your profile states that you're
> involved with greenhouses; do
> you operate some, build them, or...?  I personally
> have a deep love of
> tropicals and other "weird" supremely adapted
> plants, like insectivorous
> species, and I've long dreamed of having a
> greenhouse or two... or better
> yet just living in Costa Rica.
>
> The last fellow to join before you is deeply into
> earthen construction and
> related things, I gather.  That's been my other
> dream, to build my own
> permaculture home.  So, how about earthen
> greenhouses?  :-)
>
> Mark
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:17 PM
> Subject: New NorCalPermaculture member
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is an automated email message to let you know
> that
> > qi4u <qi4u@...> joined your
> NorCalPermaculture
> > group.
> >
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

qi4u/Mr. Ryon:

You know, I never intended for this to be a "real" group originally (only a
demonstration and placeholder), but you're now the fourth member and it's
starting to seem like it should be treated as real.  Maybe it has a life of
its own now?

So, welcome.  Your profile states that you're involved with greenhouses; do
you operate some, build them, or...?  I personally have a deep love of
tropicals and other "weird" supremely adapted plants, like insectivorous
species, and I've long dreamed of having a greenhouse or two... or better
yet just living in Costa Rica.

The last fellow to join before you is deeply into earthen construction and
related things, I gather.  That's been my other dream, to build my own
permaculture home.  So, how about earthen greenhouses?  :-)

Mark

----Original Message----
From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: New NorCalPermaculture member

> Hello,
>
> This is an automated email message to let you know that
> qi4u <qi4u@...> joined your NorCalPermaculture
> group.
>

Hello friends,
     We have a very full and exciting year planned for 2006! Last year
we had nearly 100 volunteers her at MELC and accomplished so many
things. Thank you everyone, without you none of this would be
possible...

Work, play, enjoy daily guided Yoga sessions, eat Organic and
international cuisine, walk in the woods, swim in the pond and much
more! Volunteers are invited to join us as we learn about the many
skills needed to lead a healthier and more sustainable lifestyle...
MELC is a 501c(3) nonprofit environmental and educational
organization, emphasizing sustainable stewardship of lands, water,
housing, animals and energy production. The center was founded in 2003
by a group of artists, farmers, educators, naturalists and people
seeking innovative alternatives to destructive farming, housing,
energy and land management practices. At MELC we hone, teach and make
available practical skills, techniques and methodologies for
sustainable living throughout the world. Our goal is to become a place
where people of all ages, nationalities and disabilities can come,
learn and hopefully be inspired by the examples they see at the
center. We use Ecological Design, Permaculture, Organic Farming,
Natural Building, Renewable Energy, Sustainable Forestry and an ever
evolving list of techniques and methodologies to achieve our goals.
We are currently updating our website it should be finished by
February, in the mean time you can see an article about our first
annual international sustainable skills camp (August 8-23,2005) here
http://www.willitsnews.com/Stories/0,1413,253~27831~3028072,00.html.
For more information http://www.melc.us or email inquiry@....
You can find more info about volunteering and projects to be involved
in at http://www.organicvolunteers.com/farm_finder.asp?Mode=1&S=5

You're preaching to an EMPTY ROOM....

----Original Message----
From: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Bachman
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:08 PM
To: NorCalPermaculture@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NorCalPermaculture] Hey, Permies!

> Let's get gardening!
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
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Let's get gardening!

Jerry