====================

Leonid Meteor Shower 2009 Viewer's Guide

By Joe Rao
SPACE.com Skywatching Columnist

When people hear about an impending meteor shower, their first
impression may be of a sky filled with shooting stars pouring down
through the sky like rain. Such meteor storms have actually occurred
with the annual Leonid meteor shower of November, such as in 1833 and
1966, when meteor rates of literally tens of thousands per hour were
observed.

In more recent years, most notably 1999, 2001 and 2002, lesser Leonid
displays of up to a few thousand meteors per hour thrilled skywatchers.

This year will be not set any records, but the Leonids – set to peak
early Tuesday morning, Nov. 17 – should offer a better-than-average
display.

For the full article, see:

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/091113-2009-leonid-meteor-shower.html

====================

Hello all,

A number of us are planing to be at Bootland Farm this Monday night,
for the Leonid meteor shower.

Ivo and I will be there all night, until dawn, running multiple
cameras with wide angle lenses, to hopefully capture some of the
action (if we're lucky ;)

A few others may be joining us as well.  Of course, if anyone else
reading this is looking for company under dark skies, feel free to
join in.  I will most likely arrive sometime between 8-9PM to setup my
mount.  I will stay right up until the end, which would be about 6AM.
Keep in mind that no Leonids can be observed until the radiant rises,
which is late in the evening.  A few meteors can be seen in the
evening, so those would definitely be sporadics or members of other
minor showers.  The first few Leonids will be seen around midnight,
but the shower won't be near its best until 3-4AM.  If you want to see
the Leonids and you can only watch for a short time, a good strategy
is to sleep and set your alarm to wake you up, say at 2AM.  Bootland
Farm is about one hour's drive west of Ottawa (see the OAOG site
http://www.oaog.ca/sites.htm
   for maps and directions).  If you get lost, I will have my cell
phone (613-769-5992)

The good news is that the weather forecast is looking GREAT!  Just to
be sure, a final GO will be posted by about 1PM.

It looks like a good part of the week will be nice and clear too! :)))

- Pierre

Not off hand, but you can process the AVI directly with registax, so not
sure why you'd want to do that.  Though I might be not completely
understanding what you're trying to do.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Bart <bart@...> wrote:

>
>
> Good cloudy Sunday morning to all,
>
> At some point in past someone in the group showed me some software that
> would take a video file (.avi) and by setting time parameters automatically
> generate numerous still frames that could be stacked by registax. I can't
> remember the program but would now like to use it. Does anyone know of the
> software that does this?
>
> Bart
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good cloudy Sunday morning to all,



At some point in past someone in the group showed me some software that
would take a video file (.avi) and by setting time parameters automatically
generate numerous still frames that could be stacked by registax. I can't
remember the program but would now like to use it.  Does anyone know of the
software that does this?



Bart



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Observing the 2009 Leonid Meteor Shower

by Pierre Martin

The Leonids are most famously known for their historic meteor storms,
when dozens or even hundreds of meteors pour from the sky every
minute!  The latest such round occurred in 1999, 2001 and 2002 when
the hourly rates surpassed over 1000 meteors per hour.  Those who were
lucky enough to witness these displays will never forget them.  The
awesome Leonid storms are exceedingly rare.  In fact, they are not
expected to roar this strongly again until the year 2094.  In the less
distant future, a return to strong Leonid showers is likely around
2033, but storm level activity does not appear probable.  In recent
years, the Leonids have resumed their normal annual "sprinkle" of
about 10-15 meteors per hour (around November 17).

In 2008, however, some elevated activity was observed.  The Earth
encountered a small but densely packed clump of dust shed by Comet 55P/
Tempel-Tuttle during its visit in the inner solar system back in the
year 1466.  The result was a short outburst of Leonids reaching about
100 meteors per hour (as seen under ideal dark skies in Europe and
Asia). Meteor shower forecasters believe that the situation is even
better this year!  Not only is the 1466 cloud expected once again this
year, but a second cloud, the trail of dust shed in 1533 should be
encountered too.  According to Jeremie Vaubaillon's latest predictions
(IMCCE), the combined zenith hourly rates (ZHR) from these overlapping
dust clouds will cause an outburst of about 200 meteors per hour to be
visible over the course of about an hour.  From Vaubaillon's website:
"The year 2009 will not see a Leonid storm, but an outburst for
sure".  Other meteor forecasters working independently have verified
this.  Sounds exciting?  Yes, but there is bad news for us.  We won't
see it here!  This short lived (one hour or so) activity is predicted
to be centered around 4:35pm - 4:50pm (EST) on November 17.  That's a
bad timing for North America.  Oncoming Leonid meteors won't even
begin facing us until about 11:00pm (when the radiant comes up above
the horizon).  So by the time the Leonids begin facing our direction,
the outburst will, in all likelihood, be over.

Although we'll miss the main part of the show, don't write off the
Leonids just yet!  The meteor experts found out that the Earth will
"brush" a few other Leonid dust clouds... and at least one of them
will be very well timed for Eastern North America!

Mark your calendar for Tuesday morning November 17, and keep your eyes
peeled on the sky starting at about 2am (EST)...

... The Earth is expected to pass close (slightly missing) to the
trail of dust shed by the comet back in the year 1567.  There is a
good chance for a small "bump" in visible meteors.  By combining this
"bump" with the annual "background", overal rates should reach a plato
of 25-30 meteors per hour (mainly between 2:00-4:00am (EST).  Although
this doesn't sound as exciting as the strong outburst predicted above
Asia, this modest enhancement is likely to be the best that we'll get
from Leonids, for at least the next several years!  That being said,
the meteor forecasters warn that some uncertainties exist in their
models, for the density of these old dust trails, so they do not
exclude the chance that we might get a better show!

Outburst or no outburst, this year is a great one to enjoy the
Leonids.  The Moon will be New, so it will not cause any
interference.  Meteor showers always do much better when moonlight is
not a factor, and skies are nice and dark.  A few Leonids might be
seen as early as 11pm or midnight, but the best part of the show will
be seen in the last hours before dawn, when the radiant (located
within the "sickle" of Leo) is located high overhead.  This happens
because the Earth gradually rotates head-on into the oncoming Leonid
dust stream as the night goes on.  Don't expect the meteors to arrive
on cue - meteors rarely appear on schedule and this can test the
patience of many people even on the peak night.  Sometimes several
minutes will go by without anything happening at all, then the next
minute will have a burst of meteors in quick succession.  If the
morning of November 17 is cloudy, give the following morning a try.
Leonids should still be active with rates of about 15 meteors per hour
on the morning of November 18.  At 71 kilometers per second, these are
some of the fastest meteors observable, and once you see them, you
will know what I mean!  Many of the brighter ones leave long columns
of glowing ionized air (trains) that can linger long after the meteor
has vanished.  If you are lucky, you might even spot a fireball (a
meteor brighter than the planet Venus).  Observing even a small number
of Leonids can be memorable, and well worth the effort.

For the best view, avoid as much light pollution as possible.  A
moderately bright light in your field of view, or the glow of city
light pollution will reduce the meteor counts. Choose a spot that has
a clear unobstructed view of the night sky, and allow about 20 minutes
for your eyes to fully dark adapt.  Sit back comfortably with your
feet pointed toward the east or south-east, and adjust your lawnchair
at a comfortable angle.  Viewing meteors is easy, and requires mostly
luck and some patience.  Leonids can (and will) appear in any area of
the sky.  Just allow your eyes to slowly scan the skies.  If you're
observing with a group, you might want to have everyone face a
different part of the sky to improve the odds of someone seeing
something interesting.

Spend any amount of time watching the Leonids, and you will notice
that traced imaginary lines behind the meteors eventually converge
into one common point in the sky.  This is known as the radiant - an
effect of perspective, due to meteors entering our atmosphere in
nearly parallel paths.  In the case of the Leonids, the meteors
radiate from Leo, hence the reason for the shower’s name.  You will
notice that a smaller number of meteors don't line up with Leo at
all.  These meteors are either members of other minor showers or
sporadics (those that aren't known to be associated to any showers).
Throughout November, the slow moving (and sometimes bright) Taurids
are active in small numbers.  At a dark location, you will likely see
anywhere from 5 to 15 non-Leonids per hour while observing.

Meteor observing is among the simplest and most rewarding forms of
astronomical activities.  It does not require any kind of specialized
equipment - the naked eyes are all that is needed here.  Just get
comfortable, and look up!  To make the most out of it, bring a
reclining lawn chair, a warm and thick sleeping bag, a thermos of hot
chocolate or coffee and some snacks.  November nights can be quite
cold and humid too, especially towards dawn, so be sure to put on many
layers.  As a rule of thumb for November, I usually ignore the
forecasted temperature, and assume that I'm going for a night of -20C.
This way, I know that I will have more than enough to keep me warm
even if the actual temperature is a lot less cold than that.  If
you're going to be out a while, I highly recommend chemical hand and
feet warmers.  They work for several hours and are readily available
at stores (such as Canadian Tire) for just $2.  Don’t forget your red
flashlight and keep your binoculars handy (they are fun to explore the
sky with as you wait for more meteors).  Lastly, have a tape recorder
handy to keep track of your counts, memorable events, and then report
them!

If you have any questions or comments on the Leonids (and anything
meteor related), feel free to write to me at
meteorshowersca@....  I also always welcome company on my meteor
outings (which are typically out at dark sites about one hour's drive
out of Ottawa).  Sometimes, I travel further.  If you want to be
notified when meteor observing opportunities happen, just let me know.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> NASA Science News for November 13, 2009
> The argument that the Moon is a dry, desolate place no longer holds
> water. At a press conference today, researchers revealed data from
> NASA's LCROSS mission indicating that water exists in a permanently
> shadowed lunar crater.
>
> FULL STORY at
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/13nov_lcrossresults.htm?list167643
>
> Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml!
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Al, that is a great idea to line the laser along the focuser
of the Dob (mine is the same 8 inch SW).  I had always been
thinking of a permanent attachment arrangement.  But, you
are so right--that would work only in warm weather.  The
pointers definately don't like to get chilly.  Thanks for
the idea.
Mary

> NASA Science News for November 12, 2009
> On Monday, NASA will begin transmitting commands to its Mars
> exploration rover Spirit as part of an escape plan to free the
> venerable robot from its Martian sand trap.
>
> FULL STORY at
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/12nov_freespirit.htm?
> list167643
>
> Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml!
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To all  who responded, again thank you for taking the time to share your
experiences with finderscopes. I really enjoyed reading the advice and
narratives of such seasoned observers.Thanks Rob for the links, great info
there. Out of all this one thing is clear, to save my neck, in addition to a
quick finder,  I need a right-angled finder scope to replace the straight-thru
one that came with the Celestron CPC 800.
Cheers,
Louise

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary, I enjoyed your note on finders, as I have just gone through a similar
experience.

I'm just getting back into astronomy after an absence of about 30 years.  My old
home-made, home-ground-parabolised-and-polished 6 in. scope had sat in a corner
in the basement until the mirror and home-made equatorial mount both oxidised
until they were un-usable, so I decided to start again from the bottom up, so to
speak, with a brand-new 8-in Sky-Watcher dob.   I quickly found that my knees
are no longer as flexible as they once were, and I could not kneel down and
sight along the scope in order to line up the finder scope on a known star or
planet as I once used to do, let alone twist my neck around to peer through it
when sighting on an overhead object.

So, it was back to the telescope store to exchange my straight-through finder
with a right-angle-view finder which greatly relieved the stress on my neck and
back and knees.   However, I still could not sight along the scope comfortably
enough to set up the telescopes initial viewing angle.  (I still have trouble
justifying one of those "go-to" equatorial mounts, but I am quickly beginning to
see their advantages.)

So, back to the telescope store to pick up a green laser pointer.  Fortunately
it is encased is a very simple, straight plastic tube, so one is able to fasten
it alongside the scope's focussing-assembly-mounting by slipping it under a
bungee cord wrapped around the top of the telescope tube.  This way it is also
readily removed for pointing out objects to other viewers.   And the edge of the
focussing assembly keeps it lined up with the scope for fairly accurate aiming.

However, (and this is the main reason for writing this elaborate, verbose
introduction), last night, once the temperature dropped below zero, I found that
the intensity of the light from the laser "finder-pointer" dropped as well,
until I could barely detect a faint green line projecting a few feet out above
the scope.   At first I blamed it on depleted batteries, but after putting it in
my parka's pockets for a few minutes, I found that the power had been restored. 
So, the moral of this story is: for anyone planning to use a laser pointer as a
rough finder-device, it helps greatly to use a mounting arrangement whereby it
can be readily removed from the scope for periodic warm-ups.   (actually, I
eventually found that I did not even need to fasten it to the scope, but simply
hold it in place along the edge of the 'focusser' until the scope pointed
roughly toward the object desired, and then return it to the warmth of my
pocket).

Ciao,
"old newbie" Al

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "mbrown" <mbrown@...> wrote:
>
> When I got my first scope, I had a lot of trouble finding
> anything with the horrible little finder scope that came
> with it.  I do remember looking up at Saturn and getting
> very frustrated that I couldn't 'find' it for a view in my
> scope.  Then, I got a Telrad.  It was a first class hobby
> saver.  Well, make that second--the wonderful folks of OAOG
> who so willingly share their knowledge and enthusiasm are
> definately on the top of that list.
> With the Telrad, I could actually find objects and the
> numerous free online Telrad charts are a great asset.
> Adding a small additional counterweight compensated for the
> extra weight.  On my Dob, my Telrad does not cause a weight
> concern.
> I still love my Telrad.  The only negative is its
> contribution to the 'midnight limbo' which, in the last
> years, has contibuted to shortening viewing sessions.  As
> Rob said, the higher the altitude, the harder it is on the
> back and neck and the quicker tiredness becomes a factor.
> When reading Rob's note, I was curious about the right angle
> mirror thing.  My Telrad does not have that option.  From
> his second note, it seems that was a feature available in
> previous versions.
> Yes, a Telrad is quickly affected by dew.  For evenings when
> I don't hook up the dew heaters, I keep a face cloth over my
> Telrad.  This protects it from the dew and adds considerable
> time to its usability.
> Having both a Telrad and a Red Dot, I certainly prefer my
> Telrad and charts for locating objects.
> In my quest to make viewing sessions more body friendly, I
> am probably going to get a right angle correct image finder.
>  Also, the holder I have for my green laser pointer fits
> into a regular viewfinder or Red Dot base and serves the
> same purpose as a Red Dot without having to bend and twist.
> I will not part with my Telrad for my Dob and will keep my
> Red Dot for my new refractor.  There are times I will want
> to use my Telrad.  Also, there are situations where a green
> laser would not be appropriate--ex. in a group when someone
> is imaging.
> Mary
>

Hi Joe,

The conditions look excellent and I think I'm going to join you for a while this
evening at Moose Creek (from 6:30PM-10PM).  I would also not stay late, because
I expect to be very busy at work tomorrow.

- Pierre

Hey all,
Just letting you know I'm heading to Boundary Rd tonight for a bit, probably
around 10pm-12am, just a short session to get my fix with these beautiful skies
that await us.

Cheers,
Donny

I am selling my Meade LX200GPS - 12 inch - UHTC  This scope was "supercharged"
by Dr. Clay Sherrod.  The scope is in excellent condition.

Included in sale:

Autostar II hand controller
Microfocuser
2" diagonal
26 mm eyepiece
Meade giant field tripod
Original manual
Original double shipping box and foam

Upgrades:
Peterson EZ Focus
Peterson EZ Clutch
Peterson EZ Balance On-Axis Counterweight
Bob's Knobs

I am asking $3200.00 for everything.

The only reason I am selling is because of health issues.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi again Louise,

Just when I was starting to think that I had imagined the whole 90 degrees
Telrad thing, my good friend Bob Pennent called me to say that what I had seen
was an aftermarket attachment that he had on his Telrad that provided him with
this capability.

So... the Telrad that you originally buy is intended to be used as a "straight
through" finder.  However, there is an aftermarket attachment that can be added
that serves both as a dew shield and as an off-axis mirror to give you the 90
degree viewing feature and save on the "midnight limbo" thing.   They can be
purchased from ScopeStuff... here's a link to the product (Telrad Dewshield
Plus):

    http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_telr1.htm

and a review of the product can be found here:

    http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=178

Bob Pennet tells me that, like everything else, it takes a little while to get
used to.  As the flip hood/mirror can be rotated out of the way, the Telrad can
still be used as a straight through finder.  I can remember when I was observing
with Bob's equipment that night having to do both ... using it as a straight
through finder (yeah ... down on my hands and knees behind a newtonian
telescope) to get into the target area, then setting the flip mirror so I could
stand up next to the Telrad to refine my search before looking through the
adjacent eyepiece.

Thanks Bob!  It's a heck of a thing when your friends who are fifteen years
older than you are have sharper memories..... sheesh!!

LOL Pierre!! ... good thing I had a flack jacket!!!

Rob.L.

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "meteorshowersca" <dob14.5@...> wrote:
>
> Flack!  Flack!  Flack! .... Just kidding ;0)

When I got my first scope, I had a lot of trouble finding
anything with the horrible little finder scope that came
with it.  I do remember looking up at Saturn and getting
very frustrated that I couldn't 'find' it for a view in my
scope.  Then, I got a Telrad.  It was a first class hobby
saver.  Well, make that second--the wonderful folks of OAOG
who so willingly share their knowledge and enthusiasm are
definately on the top of that list.
With the Telrad, I could actually find objects and the
numerous free online Telrad charts are a great asset.
Adding a small additional counterweight compensated for the
extra weight.  On my Dob, my Telrad does not cause a weight
concern.
I still love my Telrad.  The only negative is its
contribution to the 'midnight limbo' which, in the last
years, has contibuted to shortening viewing sessions.  As
Rob said, the higher the altitude, the harder it is on the
back and neck and the quicker tiredness becomes a factor.
When reading Rob's note, I was curious about the right angle
mirror thing.  My Telrad does not have that option.  From
his second note, it seems that was a feature available in
previous versions.
Yes, a Telrad is quickly affected by dew.  For evenings when
I don't hook up the dew heaters, I keep a face cloth over my
Telrad.  This protects it from the dew and adds considerable
time to its usability.
Having both a Telrad and a Red Dot, I certainly prefer my
Telrad and charts for locating objects.
In my quest to make viewing sessions more body friendly, I
am probably going to get a right angle correct image finder.
  Also, the holder I have for my green laser pointer fits
into a regular viewfinder or Red Dot base and serves the
same purpose as a Red Dot without having to bend and twist.
I will not part with my Telrad for my Dob and will keep my
Red Dot for my new refractor.  There are times I will want
to use my Telrad.  Also, there are situations where a green
laser would not be appropriate--ex. in a group when someone
is imaging.
Mary

Hi Bart,

I thought I'd follow up now that the stuff I ordered from Adirondack Video
Astronomy has arrived.  The dovetail and adapter plate are well made in my
impression, have a nice black anodized finish, and add up to 421g not including
the screws.  The dovetail installed easily with the stainless screws that came
with it.  The only trouble I had was with getting the stock screws out of my
telescope.  Steel screws in aluminum over time tend to become bonded
together...apparently.  I ended up stripping the small hex on the head of one
screw, and had to use my Dremel to "convert" it to a slot head.

The basic adapter plate that I purchased had a countersunk hole in it and came
with a suitably sized 1/4-20 hex screw for mounting to my finderscope base.  The
adapter plate then slides over the dovetail and hand tightens in the position
you want.  Very slick!  I'll post some images to the Photo section to show how
it looks.

Regards,

Jim T.

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Bart Tecter" <bart@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am now anxiously awaiting the arrival of my CGE Pro 1100HD.  Once it
> arrives I would like to mount my Skywatcher 80mm Equinox on the 11" tube to
> use for guiding and as a shorter focal length for some imaging. What is the
> best way to mount the 80mm on the C11. As my new scope will be all pristine
> I want something that will be functional and yet look finished and
> attractive. Duct tape and finishing nails won't cut it. What are others
> using? Any suggestions appreciated.
>
>
>
> Bart
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Flack!  Flack!  Flack! .... Just kidding ;0)

In all honesty, I'm finding that as much as I enjoy my Telrad/Rigel combo, I
still sometimes miss the convenience of the right angled 9x60mm finderscope that
I used to have on my old 14.5" Dob.  It was an Astrosystems "woody" finder
(discontinued).  Really nice for scooping up rich star fields at dark sky
sites... and many deep sky objects could be glimpsed easily in it too.  I loved
it so much that I nicknamed it the TWEET TWEET finder (because of its unusual
resemblance to a bird house).  Some of you will recall that the Finder was, for
a while, decorated with little birds all over it ;0)

With my current PortaBall 12.5", I need to keep it light at the top or else I
run into balance issues.  Adding a Finder would be nice, but it's not an option
(and I want to keep it simple... don't feel like fussing with the balance).  It
took me a little while to get used to having only a Rigel or Telrad there, but I
found out that using the main scope can be used effectively as a Finder... with
the lowest powered wide-field eyepiece ;0)

Clear skies,

- Pierre




--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <cydium@...> wrote:
>
> Hmmmm ... I'm going to have to defer to actual Telrad users to answer your
question.  The Telrad that I had access to several years ago had a reasonable
size flip up mirror which allowed it to be used like a 90 degree finderscope in
the same way the Televue Starbeam is used. However, the current adds for Telrad
do not mention this at all... so I'm puzzled (my normal state).  It appears that
the Telrad is designed to be used mainly as a straight through finder.   I took
a brief look at the Televue Starbeam version and have two comments:  A) $250 is
a little steep (you could get two 9x50 90 Deg, corrected view finderscopes for
that price), and B) I think it would be difficult to use with such a small
mirror.
>
> I assume that your CPC SCT came with the usual Celestron 8x50 straight through
finderscope.  I have always thought that its a travesty to put one of these
miserable things on a telescope that uses a diagonal at the eyepiece because
it's just too painful to move from the eyepiece to the finderscope with any
grace. If you have an opportunity to try a 8x50 or 9x50 right angled
finderscope, you would find the ergonomics of moving from eyepiece to
finderscope tremendously improved as you will not have to reorientate your
entire body.  Make it a 9x50, right angled, CORRECT VIEW finderscope and you end
up with a finder scope that actually agrees with the star maps we all use,
facilitating star hopping extensively.  If you intend to do any amount of star
hopping and you have support issues with your neck, the straight through red-dot
finders may be no better than using the 8x50 straight through finderscope.  In
fact, may be a little worse because you'll have to move a little further back
from the scope to see the red dot / reticule display.  As I mention, red-dots
work great viewing at lower altitudes, but when you observe at higher altitudes
near the zenith, you can't beat a 90 degree finderscope for ease of use.
>
> I'd better stop here because I suspect I'm already going to get a lot of
flack.  Ideally, it would be great if you could just try them all out to see
what would work best for you.  Everybody has different needs and expectations,
so this only represent my own opinion as a back pain "specialist".
>
> Rob.L.
>

> NASA Science News for November 10, 2009
> The 2009 Leonid meteor shower peaks on Nov. 17th with a sprinkling
> of meteors over North America and a possible outburst over Asia.
>
> FULL STORY at
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/10nov_leonids2009.htm?list167643
>
> Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmmm ... I'm going to have to defer to actual Telrad users to answer your
question.  The Telrad that I had access to several years ago had a reasonable
size flip up mirror which allowed it to be used like a 90 degree finderscope in
the same way the Televue Starbeam is used. However, the current adds for Telrad
do not mention this at all... so I'm puzzled (my normal state).  It appears that
the Telrad is designed to be used mainly as a straight through finder.   I took
a brief look at the Televue Starbeam version and have two comments:  A) $250 is
a little steep (you could get two 9x50 90 Deg, corrected view finderscopes for
that price), and B) I think it would be difficult to use with such a small
mirror.

I assume that your CPC SCT came with the usual Celestron 8x50 straight through
finderscope.  I have always thought that its a travesty to put one of these
miserable things on a telescope that uses a diagonal at the eyepiece because
it's just too painful to move from the eyepiece to the finderscope with any
grace. If you have an opportunity to try a 8x50 or 9x50 right angled
finderscope, you would find the ergonomics of moving from eyepiece to
finderscope tremendously improved as you will not have to reorientate your
entire body.  Make it a 9x50, right angled, CORRECT VIEW finderscope and you end
up with a finder scope that actually agrees with the star maps we all use,
facilitating star hopping extensively.  If you intend to do any amount of star
hopping and you have support issues with your neck, the straight through red-dot
finders may be no better than using the 8x50 straight through finderscope.  In
fact, may be a little worse because you'll have to move a little further back
from the scope to see the red dot / reticule display.  As I mention, red-dots
work great viewing at lower altitudes, but when you observe at higher altitudes
near the zenith, you can't beat a 90 degree finderscope for ease of use.

I'd better stop here because I suspect I'm already going to get a lot of flack. 
Ideally, it would be great if you could just try them all out to see what would
work best for you.  Everybody has different needs and expectations, so this only
represent my own opinion as a back pain "specialist".

Rob.L.

Louise,

Dew will become a problem with the Telrad but it can be easily corrected with a
12 volt hair dryer (yes Rob that's the only use I can make of one)or by a simple
adaptation of a few resistors to build heat and disperse dew on the glass or
plastic parts.  Works great for me.

Michel

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "louise4birds" <wingbeat@...> wrote:
>
> Wow thanks everyone for the input. All that experience at our disposal, what a
great group! Looks like Telrad might be the right choice for me.
>
> Rob, you mention a small mirror on the Telrad, this would then make viewing
comfort similar to the Televue Starbeam with mirror? This was one finder I was
considering but it is more $$$$. If I can get the same viewing comfort with the
cheaper Telrad then it is worth considering even with it's bulk. I would use the
scope more in non-go-to mode if there was less neck bending involved in finding
stars. I have good star charts and live in a great dark sky site but I sometimes
cut my sessions short because of my neck.
> Any comments regarding Starbeam vs Telrad anyone?
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> --- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <cydium@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Louise.  I believe I met you at Starfest (or Tornado Fest as Michel would
say) last summer... you were camped next to Michel and Denise, and I was with
Chris and Ivan two sites west of you.
> >
> > Red dot finders ... again there are too many choices, however it's made
simpler as they fall into two categories:  Telrad, and everything else.
> >
> > Most red dot finders offer ease of alignment and brightness adjustments. 
Some, like the Telrad and Orion EZ Finder have different reticules which make
sighting easier.  The basic "red dot" projected on the night sky facilitates
centering the telescope on (or at least near) an object, and the cheapest of all
red dot finders will work well.  More expensive red dot finders with circular
red reticules in place of the "red dot" are a little easier to position exactly
on your target.
> >
> > The disadvantage of most red dot finders is that you have to position
yourself behind the telescope in order to use it.  This is uncomfortable when
your telescope is pointed up towards the zenith and you have neck or back issues
(actually... it's downright miserable).
> >
> > The advantage of Telrad is that it has a little mirror allowing it to be
used in a 90 degree mode which eliminates the need to do the midnight limbo.
This takes a little time to get used to, but really it's about the same as when
converting from a straight-through to a 90 degree finderscope.  The disadvantage
of the Telrad is that it's a bit bulky.  In fact, it's like taping a small
orange crate to your telescope.  Never the less.... it's hard to find a
disgruntled Telrad user... so they do have a high approval rating.
> >
> > IMHO, if you are using a red dot finder only for positioning alignment
stars, I would go with a smaller, simpler basic unit as you will only use it for
five minutes or less at the beginning of your observing session then everything
else is basically GoTo.  If you intend to use it for star hopping, I'd tend to
go for an Orion EZ touch which has different red dot reticules, or the Telrad
(if you don't mind the size) for ease of use.  In fact, there are whole star
maps set up to accommodate Telrad finders.
> >
> > If you have a little trouble with your eyes, you may find a good 9X50, 90
Deg, correct view finderscope to be your best option. Personally, I find using a
red dot finder troublesome with my particular eyeglass correction (progressive
lenses), but love the convenience and ease of use of my Orion 9X50 90 deg.
finder scope.  Most of my telescopes are set up to accommodate both my red dot
and my 9X50 finders.... the two do work quite well together in tandem,
especially if you are not using a GoTo telescope or are working on a certificate
where GoTo is not allowed.  In this mode, the red dot is used to get in the
general area, the finderscope is used to locate the target and the main
telescope is used to do the observation.
> >
> > As I mention ... too many choices...LOL.
> >
> > Rob.L.
> >
> > --- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "louise4birds" <wingbeat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for
star alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
purchase.  I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just go
for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something better.
Anyone have a recommendation?
> > > Louise
> > >
> >
>

Wow thanks everyone for the input. All that experience at our disposal, what a
great group! Looks like Telrad might be the right choice for me.

Rob, you mention a small mirror on the Telrad, this would then make viewing
comfort similar to the Televue Starbeam with mirror? This was one finder I was
considering but it is more $$$$. If I can get the same viewing comfort with the
cheaper Telrad then it is worth considering even with it's bulk. I would use the
scope more in non-go-to mode if there was less neck bending involved in finding
stars. I have good star charts and live in a great dark sky site but I sometimes
cut my sessions short because of my neck.
Any comments regarding Starbeam vs Telrad anyone?
Thanks!




--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <cydium@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Louise.  I believe I met you at Starfest (or Tornado Fest as Michel would
say) last summer... you were camped next to Michel and Denise, and I was with
Chris and Ivan two sites west of you.
>
> Red dot finders ... again there are too many choices, however it's made
simpler as they fall into two categories:  Telrad, and everything else.
>
> Most red dot finders offer ease of alignment and brightness adjustments. 
Some, like the Telrad and Orion EZ Finder have different reticules which make
sighting easier.  The basic "red dot" projected on the night sky facilitates
centering the telescope on (or at least near) an object, and the cheapest of all
red dot finders will work well.  More expensive red dot finders with circular
red reticules in place of the "red dot" are a little easier to position exactly
on your target.
>
> The disadvantage of most red dot finders is that you have to position yourself
behind the telescope in order to use it.  This is uncomfortable when your
telescope is pointed up towards the zenith and you have neck or back issues
(actually... it's downright miserable).
>
> The advantage of Telrad is that it has a little mirror allowing it to be used
in a 90 degree mode which eliminates the need to do the midnight limbo. This
takes a little time to get used to, but really it's about the same as when
converting from a straight-through to a 90 degree finderscope.  The disadvantage
of the Telrad is that it's a bit bulky.  In fact, it's like taping a small
orange crate to your telescope.  Never the less.... it's hard to find a
disgruntled Telrad user... so they do have a high approval rating.
>
> IMHO, if you are using a red dot finder only for positioning alignment stars,
I would go with a smaller, simpler basic unit as you will only use it for five
minutes or less at the beginning of your observing session then everything else
is basically GoTo.  If you intend to use it for star hopping, I'd tend to go for
an Orion EZ touch which has different red dot reticules, or the Telrad (if you
don't mind the size) for ease of use.  In fact, there are whole star maps set up
to accommodate Telrad finders.
>
> If you have a little trouble with your eyes, you may find a good 9X50, 90 Deg,
correct view finderscope to be your best option. Personally, I find using a red
dot finder troublesome with my particular eyeglass correction (progressive
lenses), but love the convenience and ease of use of my Orion 9X50 90 deg.
finder scope.  Most of my telescopes are set up to accommodate both my red dot
and my 9X50 finders.... the two do work quite well together in tandem,
especially if you are not using a GoTo telescope or are working on a certificate
where GoTo is not allowed.  In this mode, the red dot is used to get in the
general area, the finderscope is used to locate the target and the main
telescope is used to do the observation.
>
> As I mention ... too many choices...LOL.
>
> Rob.L.
>
> --- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "louise4birds" <wingbeat@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for star
alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
purchase.  I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just go
for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something better.
Anyone have a recommendation?
> > Louise
> >
>

I think it's a personal choice rather than comparing which one is better.
I started off 3 years ago with a Telrad and was very happy with it.
Then it broke and had to use my second option, the red dot finder.
After having the pleasure of using them both, I much prefer the red dot over the
telrad.
A good star map and some practice out under a dark sky is really whats needed
more than the two finders mentioned above:)

Cheers,
Donny


--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "brian" <levoyageur053@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Just to add a little "flavour" to the thread,  i use the Rigel Quickfinder.
>
> You'll find a CloudyNights comparison between it and the Telrad here:
>
> http://www.telescopereviews.com/documents/finders.pdf
>
> Performance wise i find the Telrad easier to use, but have opted for the much
smaller foot-print and weight of the Rigel. I use a second one on my spotting
scope as my "finder".
>
> Red-dot finders could be a good choice for Go-To alignment, but are VERY
limited if you are a manually driven star-hopper  :-)
>
> brian
>

Just to add a little "flavour" to the thread,  i use the Rigel Quickfinder.

You'll find a CloudyNights comparison between it and the Telrad here:

http://www.telescopereviews.com/documents/finders.pdf

Performance wise i find the Telrad easier to use, but have opted for the much
smaller foot-print and weight of the Rigel. I use a second one on my spotting
scope as my "finder".

Red-dot finders could be a good choice for Go-To alignment, but are VERY limited
if you are a manually driven star-hopper  :-)

brian

I agree 100% with Bart.  There is a saying that goes like this... The TELRAD is
big, ugly, bulky and heavy.... bit it just works!

Besides, it's not the appearance that matters in dark, since you cannot see it
;0)

I have looked at many other red dot finders, including the popular Rigel Finder.
I've found that they all suffer from a bit of parallax, while the TELRAD has
none.  Not sure why, but I think that maybe the large shape of the TELRAD helps.

Another plus for TELRAD is battery life... just put in a couple of AA lithiums
and it'll last forever even if you forget to turn it off :0)

- Pierre


--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Bart" <bart@...> wrote:
>
> TELRAD!  (about $40. At Focus. In my opinion the best of the bunch, easiest
> to align and use.
>
>
>
> Bart
>
>
>
> From: OAOG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OAOG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> louise4birds
> Sent: November-09-09 11:56 PM
> To: OAOG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [OAOG] Red dot finders
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for star
> alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
> quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
> purchase. I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just
> go for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something
> better. Anyone have a recommendation?
> Louise
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.58/2493 - Release Date: 11/09/09
> 14:40:00
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Louise.  I believe I met you at Starfest (or Tornado Fest as Michel would
say) last summer... you were camped next to Michel and Denise, and I was with
Chris and Ivan two sites west of you.

Red dot finders ... again there are too many choices, however it's made simpler
as they fall into two categories:  Telrad, and everything else.

Most red dot finders offer ease of alignment and brightness adjustments.  Some,
like the Telrad and Orion EZ Finder have different reticules which make sighting
easier.  The basic "red dot" projected on the night sky facilitates centering
the telescope on (or at least near) an object, and the cheapest of all red dot
finders will work well.  More expensive red dot finders with circular red
reticules in place of the "red dot" are a little easier to position exactly on
your target.

The disadvantage of most red dot finders is that you have to position yourself
behind the telescope in order to use it.  This is uncomfortable when your
telescope is pointed up towards the zenith and you have neck or back issues
(actually... it's downright miserable).

The advantage of Telrad is that it has a little mirror allowing it to be used in
a 90 degree mode which eliminates the need to do the midnight limbo. This takes
a little time to get used to, but really it's about the same as when converting
from a straight-through to a 90 degree finderscope.  The disadvantage of the
Telrad is that it's a bit bulky.  In fact, it's like taping a small orange crate
to your telescope.  Never the less.... it's hard to find a disgruntled Telrad
user... so they do have a high approval rating.

IMHO, if you are using a red dot finder only for positioning alignment stars, I
would go with a smaller, simpler basic unit as you will only use it for five
minutes or less at the beginning of your observing session then everything else
is basically GoTo.  If you intend to use it for star hopping, I'd tend to go for
an Orion EZ touch which has different red dot reticules, or the Telrad (if you
don't mind the size) for ease of use.  In fact, there are whole star maps set up
to accommodate Telrad finders.

If you have a little trouble with your eyes, you may find a good 9X50, 90 Deg,
correct view finderscope to be your best option. Personally, I find using a red
dot finder troublesome with my particular eyeglass correction (progressive
lenses), but love the convenience and ease of use of my Orion 9X50 90 deg.
finder scope.  Most of my telescopes are set up to accommodate both my red dot
and my 9X50 finders.... the two do work quite well together in tandem,
especially if you are not using a GoTo telescope or are working on a certificate
where GoTo is not allowed.  In this mode, the red dot is used to get in the
general area, the finderscope is used to locate the target and the main
telescope is used to do the observation.

As I mention ... too many choices...LOL.

Rob.L.

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "louise4birds" <wingbeat@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for star
alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
purchase.  I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just go
for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something better.
Anyone have a recommendation?
> Louise
>

TELRAD!  (about $40. At Focus. In my opinion the best of the bunch, easiest
to align and use.



Bart



From: OAOG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OAOG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
louise4birds
Sent: November-09-09 11:56 PM
To: OAOG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OAOG] Red dot finders





Hi All,
I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for star
alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
purchase. I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just
go for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something
better. Anyone have a recommendation?
Louise



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.58/2493 - Release Date: 11/09/09
14:40:00



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,
I'm looking at buying a red dot finder, which might be used mainly for star
alignment of a Celestron CPC 800. Anything that can make targetting stars
quicker should be easier on my bad neck, which is the main reason for this
purchase.  I've been checking them out online and not sure if I should just go
for the cheaper ones like the Celestron Star pointer or go for something better.
Anyone have a recommendation?
Louise

Hello good friend Moe,

The rings for your 80mm are more than likely 101mm (4-inches) from what I can
remember --- they had adjustment screws on them as well... didn't they? The can
be easily check with a ruler  ... I suspect you'll get a measurement around 4
inches.  Then rings I need would be in the order of 4.5 Inches (116mm).

Thanks for thinking of me...

Rob.L.

--- In OAOG@yahoogroups.com, "Moe Charlebois" <maurice037@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rob. I have a set of giding  rings that i used on the 80 but i dont know if
they will the 120mm. Moe
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Rob
>   To: OAOG@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:44 AM
>   Subject: [OAOG] Wanted - 116mm Tube Rings
>
>
>
>   Hi Folks...
>
>   Just wondering if anyone has a set of unemployed 116mm tube rings hanging
around that they would be willing to part with. It's for a 120mm refractor ....
local suppliers are out of stock and I thought I would ask before I order them
in.
>
>   Yeah ... Chris, I know..... sheesh .. and I should have taken 6 of those
nylon 1/4-20's that you had ... I found a set of 101 mm rings that would serve
well as a guide scope setup with the W.O. 80mm. No matter ... I have some long
nylon 1/4-20 screws that I can use by cutting them to proper length and epoxy on
some 1" knob ends. That should the trick for the 80mm.
>
>   Doug and Nancy ... congrats on your new aquisitions ... nice looking scopes!
>
>   Rob.L.
>
>
>
>
>
>   __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4584 (20091108) __________
>
>   The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>   http://www.eset.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>