EINSTEIN / HOW TO VIEW THE PHENOMENA OF THE ETHERIC PLANE, WHICH IS INVISIBLE -
MAGNIFYING GLASS (Following)
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QUESTION: Well, I am wondering about the practical significance of this
transformation of matter. If it is connected with our individual evolution and
the evolution of the life of the planet and the solar system, as you say it is,
then I presume there are facts we need to understand about matter itself. Is
there something we can do consciously with matter to accelerate evolution?

EINSTEIN: It will be easier to answer that question in terms of EMOTIONAL AND
MENTAL MATTER, rather than physical matter. A knowledge of the relationship
between the different TYPES of matter and the different QUALITIES of emotion
and thought could aid in improving the quality of our emotional and mental
bodies.

QUESTION: So, as you improve the quality of consciousness, you create a
corresponding change —

EINSTEIN: Of course!

QUESTION: So again, it is the indwelling consciousness which must initiate the
fundamental work of improving the quality of life — meaning us.

EINSTEIN: Yes. The emphasis should be to improve our consciousness, rather
than get so involved in matter. At least, this is true in a strictly theoretical
sense.

You know; there are many implications to these ideas which will be helpful not
just to scientists but to others as well. There are many discoveries which
psychologists and physicians need to make; for example, concerning the SUBTLE
MATTER associated with emotions and thoughts. Some of these discoveries will
make it easier to discern the difference between the phenomena of consciousness
and the phenomena of SUBTLE MENTAL OR EMOTIONAL MATTER — the difference
between the thinker and his thoughts or emotions, to put it in philosophical
terms.

QUESTION: There are professional people who do this now — not many of them,
but some do talk in these terms. I doubt if very many of them bother pursuing
the esoteric details about the subtle matter of emotions or thoughts, however.

EINSTEIN: And it might be a distraction for many of them to do so. I recognise
that. But it is also useful to see where this kind of investigation can lead us.
One of the discoveries that researchers in psychology and medicine will
eventually make some day is that non ferrous matter also has the MAGNETIC
properties which ferrous matter does. This includes the matter which goes into
the substance of human thought and feeling. It is not the type of magnetism
which attracts iron filings, of course, but it is most definitely a species of
magnetism. It attracts other substances in harmony with it, as well as repelling
matter which is not in harmony with it.

Indeed, there is a whole science of magnetism waiting to be discovered and
applied to physical and psychological health. Of course, it will be awhile
before it is discovered — science has a lot of homework to do first in
comprehending the phenomena of magnetism in its fullness. As long as scientists
insist on staying focused in the densest levels of physical matter — dead
matter, really — they will miss what I am talking about. The magnetic
properties I am referring to here are more likely to be found in the bodies of
the higher plants, animals and humans.

QUESTION: Where should an interested scientist begin in trying to study these
possibilities?

EINSTEIN: There are hints here and there in the writings of some occultists
and others [see the work of research of Baron Von Reichenbach, made with the
help of some mediums he called "sensitives", on the magnetic auric field that
he called "Odic energy"; or Baron du Potet; or Swedenborg; or Prof Hyslop; Dr
Puharich; Dr Bach.]. Of course, orthodox scientist tend to reject such writings
without even considering them.

EINSTEIN: Imagine that. Well, those scientists usually aren't the ones who
make breakthrough discoveries anyway, are they? But that would be one place to
look. They might also look up the subject of radiesthesia and consider some of
the cures achieved by herbal and homeopathic methods. Medicine is really a the
stage where it needs to take a closer look at some of the remarkable results
which have come from these un-orthodox methods. Certain types of subtle
physical or etheric matter seem to ATTRACT specific illness to the physical
body. The right type of magnetism administered as an herbal or homeopathic
treatment would be able to dispel or disperse the "bad" matter, leading to a
cure.

A parallel situation can be found in psychology. Experimenters will eventually
find that EMOTIONS must be dealt with both as HIGHLY MAGNETIC NON-PHYSICAL
MATTER and as an aspect of consciousness. The difficulty in treating many
emotional illness stems, in part, from the fact that the emotions which cause
these problems tend to be MAGNETICALLY responsive to a kind of astral matter
which "glues" itself both to our own feelings and to more of its own kind. This
magnetic action makes it very difficult to get rid of the "bad" ASTRAL MATTER —
and the emotional problem.

QUESTION: So where do enlightened physicians and psychologists go from here?
How can they investigate these possibilities?

EINSTEIN: This is really out of my field. I can only drop a few suggestions
and hints for others to follow up.

A surprising amount has been written on these subjects. These writings are not
always easy to find, but the right people are somehow able to find them anyway.
Reading these books would help them fill in the gaps in their own thinking and
observations. For example, they ought to read about THE HIDDEN SIDE OF LIFE —
the so-called INVISIBLE REALMS and the SUBTLE PLANES and GRADES OF MATTER. There
is a wealth of material about these subjects which can be investigated
scientifically. I'm not talking about probing well-kept esoteric secrets here —
just finding out simple facts which have been ignored by science, such as the
fact that small amounts of vegetable or mineral matter — the essences of flowers
or homeopathic remedies — can have a powerful effect in treating human illness.

Frankly, it is amazing that any physician or psychologist can fail to appreciate
that THERE IS AN ENSOULING CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH USES THE MATTER OF THOUGHT,
EMOTION, AND DENSE SUBSTANCE TO CREATE THE VARIOUS BODIES OF MANIFESTATION. The
very performance of their duties should lead them to try to discern the Idea and
the inner purpose which is ensouling the forms they treat, so that they can
better help this Idea manifest. To put this in pragmatic terms, the physical or
emotional body of a person might be sick, but the inner being and inner Idea is
quite healthy and seeking to heal the substance, pattern, and function of these
sick bodies. That should be a basic premise of medical science. It is a
fundamental law of life and its manifestation.

QUESTION: It is a rather common concept in many schools of thoughts.

EINSTEIN: Yes, but it often just remains a theory without much practical
significance. There are few MEDICAL or psychological techniques which actually
incorporate or implement it — or even test it.

I suspect that some of these ideas about the magnetic aspects of physical and
emotional sickness will be focus for some real breakthroughs in medicine, and
perhaps inspire similar breakthroughs in other scientific disciplines. In many
ways, it is medicine and psychology which will have to lead the rest of the
scientific community to a discovery of the ensouling consciousness and its
relationship to matter, because they deal more directly with the subtle levels
of matter. Of course, the whole field is ripe for many more breakthroughs than
have occurred, and some of them potentially could be dangerous. I imagine they
will come as the result of trial and error, without a full grasp of why it all
works — much as electricity was discovered without knowing much about why it
works.

QUESTION: Well, this is fascinating; you've given us some very tantalising
ideas for relating your theoretical comments about the relationship between
matter and consciousness to practical applications. I can accept these ideas for
several good reasons — not just because they are coming from you, but also
because they are consistent with some of my own observations, as well as the
observations of others who have written and spoken on these topics. But I would
like to go back once more to our discussion of THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE
MATTER, FROM SUBTLE TO GROSS AND BACK TO SUBTLE. I am wondering if there isn't
some kind of meticulous study of physical matter which will give at least a hint
of proof about what you've been describing. Aren't there any sophisticated
gadgets or devices which can detect some of the actual changes in dense matter
which occur during this transformation?

EINSTEIN: Oh, no. Definitely not.

QUESTION: The changes are too subtle to observe?

EINSTEIN: Too subtle to be observed from a physical perspective. In other
words, a truly profound understanding of what is happening in physical matter
can only be achieved BY VIEWING IT FROM THE NEXT HIGHER LEVEL OF MATTER.

QUESTION: So phenomena such as radioactive decay are not part of the evidence
which would support this transformation? This is not part of the "maturing" of
matter?

EINSTEIN: That's a different phenomenon.

QUESTION: Is there something in the rapidly evolving study of sub-nuclear
particles which would reflect the changes we've been talking about? Would a new
look a these tiny particles lead to discoveries which would support your idea of
a life force which is sweeping matter from a subtle plane to a denser plane and
then back to a more subtle plane? I'm talking about the mesons and that type of
particle.

EINSTEIN: All the little guys. [Laughter]

QUESTION: Yes. Would it help the scientists who are studying these phenomena
to consider what we've been discussing?

EINSTEIN: In general, I believe not. Let me say this. Being able to prove the
transformation of matter through physical experimentation would not really help
science achieve what I think should be its basic goal, which is TO BEGIN VIEWING
PHYSICAL PHENOMENA AND PHYSICAL MATTER AS PART OF A MUCH LARGER PHENOMENA.

It would essentially just keep scientists trapped in the physical, validating
and verifying their physical observations. It is necessary to run experiments
which validate one's observations, but it is extremely limiting to view physical
matter only from the physical plane. TO UNDERSTAND MATTER, THE PHYSICIST MUST
STUDY IT FROM THE LEVEL OF SUBTLE, NON-PHYSICAL ENERGIES.

QUESTION: Well, other than draw analogies from medicine and psychology, how
does the physicist do that?

EINSTEIN: He sets up an apparatus to view etheric matter.

QUESTION: Of course. [Laughter]

Another questioner: Deux ex machina. [More laughter]

QUESTION: Can you describe this apparatus?

EINSTEIN: Well, he would take a wire from over here and a wire from up there
[motioning with his hands] and combine them with a power supply. And poof! Out
would come the indwelling life. [Laughter]

QUESTION: Is it practical, all kidding aside, for modern electronic engineers
or physicists to build devices to study etheric matter?

EINSTEIN: We're getting there.

QUESTION: It's achievable?

EINSTEIN: Of course. It's all a part of the evolution of scientific thinking.
It's just that up until now, scientists have basically been limited to studying
physical matter. Now they must study the underlying currents and energies which
influence physical matter.

QUESTION: Right. Well, this leads to my next question. It seems that the study
of matter and subatomic particles has reached a practical limit. In many ways,
scientists have gone to the very edge of the physical plane. They are now at a
kind of interface between the etheric and the dense physical planes, and they
don't quite know what they are looking at. Is there something of the phenomena
of the interface itself which could be studied now, leading them on to the
further implications we've been discussing?

An analogy would be the study of the interface between water vapour and liquid
water. Obviously, there are certain phenomena which occur at the interface, as
the water moves back and forth between its liquid and its gaseous forms.

EINSTEIN: And so, to extend the analogy, you are asking if this can be done at
the interface between etheric and dense physical matter. Yes, it can, and I'm
sure it is being done. But we are in need of a breakthrough.

QUESTION: Is it being done with an awareness that an interface is being
studied, or is it being done in the belief that it is part of the known physical
level of matter?

EINSTEIN: Oh, I don't think of people working on this suspect that the are at
an interface. It's more a case of discovering certain levels of matter, which
clearly exist but are not observable in any way from the physical level of
existence. And the implications of what this means are beginning to creep into
the thinking of the people involved.

QUESTION: What line of direction would you suggest for their further
exploration? Looking at the phenomena of bevatrons, cyclotrons, and Wilson cloud
chambers? Or should they study electricity or magnetic phenomena?

EINSTEIN: Well, I'm not in a position to give you the breakthrough itself,
here in this interview.

QUESTION: It would sell more books. [Laughter]

EINSTEIN: At least to the handful of people who are actually working on such
projects. It wouldn't make much sense to anyone else.

You could go in almost any of the directions you just mentioned and find the
interface. The key is studying the qualities and characteristics behind the
physical movement of atoms. This would reveal that there are subtler particles
interacting with the atoms of physical matter.

QUESTION: Are you saying they should speculate on the electromagnetic
phenomena within the nucleus of the atom — that some of this is really extremely
subtle matter rather than force?

EINSTEIN: Yes.

QUESTION: And that this subtle force somehow turns into matter and that matter
turns back into this force?

EINSTEIN: Folds back on itself, so to speak. I couldn't have said it better
myself. But keep in mind that it's very easy for us to sit here and say you
ought to study this instead of that. In practical terms, it's more a matter of
trial and error until we achieve the breakthrough. The wok is being done and it
is in competent hands.

It is somewhat simplistic to say, yes, you ought to take the nucleus of an atom
and examine its subtle matter. Saying that still leaves the practical question
of how you do it, of how you develop devices to measure it, and so on. That is
what is taking time.

There are many of us here that are pushing the investigators in the right
direction. They have not yet made the major breakthrough, but it is coming. It
will be a confirmation of the existence of realms of life which are not
measurable in physical terms, beginning with the etheric plane.

QUESTION: Okay. I want to ask you about a few physicists who are busy
exploring the relationship between certain Eastern philosophies and nuclear
physics. There is a man I know, Fritjof Capra, who wrote a relatively popular
book called The Tao of Physics, in which he speculates on some of these
possibilities. The same can be said about another book, The Dancing Wu Li
Masters by Gary Zukav.

EINSTEIN: Excellent books. They should be read by everyone with an interest in
science. There's a need for more of this kind of speculation. The melding of
East and West is, of course, proceeding on schedule. Physicists need to discover
the link between the mind and what the mind perceives in physical matter. It has
always been assumed, up through the last several years, that the scientist is
limited by the restrictions of the physical plane itself. What we must realise
is that it is not the physical limitations which restrict science but the
mental limitations of the scientists! Until this is understood, the major
breakthrough will not be forthcoming.

QUESTION: I would presume; then, that the laboratory the scientist will use to
explore these interfaces will not be some monumentally expensive laboratory
costing tens of millions of dollars, but simply the imaginative minds of
brilliant physicists and their grasp of esoteric mathematics. The language of
mathematics, after all, lets you speculate about non-physical states,
fourth-dimensional forms of movement, and all that exciting stuff.

EINSTEIN: That's right. It's particularly important for the scientist now to
examine the limitations of his thinking about the physical realm, rather than
try to devise more and more complex physical devices.

QUESTION: They can put hat cyclotron away and go back to the drawing board.
[Laughter] Would it be helpful to study some of the works of the great mystery
school founded by Pythagoras?

EINSTEIN: Ah, I see the point you are bringing up, and I will expand on it a
little. In ancient times, there was a much greater understanding of the
relationship between the mind and physical matter.

QUESTION: You're talking about the ancient antecedents of our present
civilisation?

EINSTEIN: Yes.

QUESTION: The ancient Greeks and Egyptians?

EINSTEIN: Yes. Although they were not necessarily as sophisticated as we are
in dealing with physical matter and machines, they were much more enlightened
and efficient in what they did use. Their science was quite sophisticated. An
example which is frequently cited is the astonishing achievement of the
PYRAMIDS. I would live to have some construction company bid on BUILDING A
PYRAMID today and see if it would be economically feasible. [Laughter] I'm sure
it would not be.

My point is that humanity is not really better off today in our intellectual
understanding of matter, in spite of our technology and scientific advances,
than we were thousands of years ago.


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