EINSTEIN / HOW TO VIEW THE PHENOMENA OF THE ETHERIC PLANE, WHICH IS INVISIBLE - MAGNIFYING GLASS (Following)
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QUESTION: Well, I am wondering about the practical significance of this transformation of matter. If it is connected with our individual evolution and the evolution of the life of the planet and the solar system, as you say it is, then I presume there are facts we need to understand about matter itself. Is there something we can do consciously with matter to accelerate evolution?

EINSTEIN: It will be easier to answer that question in terms of EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL MATTER, rather than physical matter. A knowledge of the relationship between the different TYPES of matter and the different QUALITIES of emotion and thought could aid in improving the quality of our emotional and mental bodies.

QUESTION: So, as you improve the quality of consciousness, you create a corresponding change —

EINSTEIN: Of course!

QUESTION: So again, it is the indwelling consciousness which must initiate the fundamental work of improving the quality of life — meaning us.

EINSTEIN: Yes. The emphasis should be to improve our consciousness, rather than get so involved in matter. At least, this is true in a strictly theoretical sense.

You know; there are many implications to these ideas which will be helpful not just to scientists but to others as well. There are many discoveries which psychologists and physicians need to make; for example, concerning the SUBTLE MATTER associated with emotions and thoughts. Some of these discoveries will make it easier to discern the difference between the phenomena of consciousness and the phenomena of SUBTLE MENTAL OR EMOTIONAL MATTER — the difference between the thinker and his thoughts or emotions, to put it in philosophical terms.

QUESTION: There are professional people who do this now — not many of them, but some do talk in these terms. I doubt if very many of them bother pursuing the esoteric details about the subtle matter of emotions or thoughts, however.

EINSTEIN: And it might be a distraction for many of them to do so. I recognise that. But it is also useful to see where this kind of investigation can lead us. One of the discoveries that researchers in psychology and medicine will eventually make some day is that non ferrous matter also has the MAGNETIC properties which ferrous matter does. This includes the matter which goes into the substance of human thought and feeling. It is not the type of magnetism which attracts iron filings, of course, but it is most definitely a species of magnetism. It attracts other substances in harmony with it, as well as repelling matter which is not in harmony with it.

Indeed, there is a whole science of magnetism waiting to be discovered and applied to physical and psychological health. Of course, it will be awhile before it is discovered — science has a lot of homework to do first in comprehending the phenomena of magnetism in its fullness. As long as scientists insist on staying focused in the densest levels of physical matter — dead matter, really — they will miss what I am talking about. The magnetic properties I am referring to here are more likely to be found in the bodies of the higher plants, animals and humans.

QUESTION: Where should an interested scientist begin in trying to study these possibilities?

EINSTEIN: There are hints here and there in the writings of some occultists and others [see the work of research of Baron Von Reichenbach, made with the help of some mediums he called "sensitives" , on the magnetic auric field that he called "Odic energy"; or Baron du Potet; or Swedenborg; or Prof Hyslop; Dr Puharich; Dr Bach.]. Of course, orthodox scientist tend to reject such writings without even considering them.

EINSTEIN: Imagine that. Well, those scientists usually aren't the ones who make breakthrough discoveries anyway, are they? But that would be one place to look. They might also look up the subject of radiesthesia and consider some of the cures achieved by herbal and homeopathic methods. Medicine is really a the stage where it needs to take a closer look at some of the remarkable results which have come from these un-orthodox methods. Certain types of subtle physical or etheric matter seem to ATTRACT specific illness to the physical body. The right type of magnetism administered as an herbal or homeopathic treatment would be able to dispel or disperse the "bad" matter, leading to a cure.

A parallel situation can be found in psychology. Experimenters will eventually find that EMOTIONS must be dealt with both as HIGHLY MAGNETIC NON-PHYSICAL MATTER and as an aspect of consciousness. The difficulty in treating many emotional illness stems, in part, from the fact that the emotions which cause these problems tend to be MAGNETICALLY responsive to a kind of astral matter which "glues" itself both to our own feelings and to more of its own kind. This magnetic action makes it very difficult to get rid of the "bad" ASTRAL MATTER — and the emotional problem.

QUESTION: So where do enlightened physicians and psychologists go from here? How can they investigate these possibilities?

EINSTEIN: This is really out of my field. I can only drop a few suggestions and hints for others to follow up.

A surprising amount has been written on these subjects. These writings are not always easy to find, but the right people are somehow able to find them anyway. Reading these books would help them fill in the gaps in their own thinking and observations. For example, they ought to read about THE HIDDEN SIDE OF LIFE — the so-called INVISIBLE REALMS and the SUBTLE PLANES and GRADES OF MATTER. There is a wealth of material about these subjects which can be investigated scientifically. I'm not talking about probing well-kept esoteric secrets here — just finding out simple facts which have been ignored by science, such as the fact that small amounts of vegetable or mineral matter — the essences of flowers or homeopathic remedies — can have a powerful effect in treating human illness.

Frankly, it is amazing that any physician or psychologist can fail to appreciate that THERE IS AN ENSOULING CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH USES THE MATTER OF THOUGHT, EMOTION, AND DENSE SUBSTANCE TO CREATE THE VARIOUS BODIES OF MANIFESTATION. The very performance of their duties should lead them to try to discern the Idea and the inner purpose which is ensouling the forms they treat, so that they can better help this Idea manifest. To put this in pragmatic terms, the physical or emotional body of a person might be sick, but the inner being and inner Idea is quite healthy and seeking to heal the substance, pattern, and function of these sick bodies. That should be a basic premise of medical science. It is a fundamental law of life and its manifestation.

QUESTION: It is a rather common concept in many schools of thoughts.

EINSTEIN: Yes, but it often just remains a theory without much practical significance. There are few MEDICAL or psychological techniques which actually incorporate or implement it — or even test it.

I suspect that some of these ideas about the magnetic aspects of physical and emotional sickness will be focus for some real breakthroughs in medicine, and perhaps inspire similar breakthroughs in other scientific disciplines. In many ways, it is medicine and psychology which will have to lead the rest of the scientific community to a discovery of the ensouling consciousness and its relationship to matter, because they deal more directly with the subtle levels of matter. Of course, the whole field is ripe for many more breakthroughs than have occurred, and some of them potentially could be dangerous. I imagine they will come as the result of trial and error, without a full grasp of why it all works — much as electricity was discovered without knowing much about why it works.

QUESTION: Well, this is fascinating; you've given us some very tantalising ideas for relating your theoretical comments about the relationship between matter and consciousness to practical applications. I can accept these ideas for several good reasons — not just because they are coming from you, but also because they are consistent with some of my own observations, as well as the observations of others who have written and spoken on these topics. But I would like to go back once more to our discussion of THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE MATTER, FROM SUBTLE TO GROSS AND BACK TO SUBTLE. I am wondering if there isn't some kind of meticulous study of physical matter which will give at least a hint of proof about what you've been describing. Aren't there any sophisticated gadgets or devices which can detect some of the actual changes in dense matter which occur during this transformation?

EINSTEIN: Oh, no. Definitely not.

QUESTION: The changes are too subtle to observe?

EINSTEIN: Too subtle to be observed from a physical perspective. In other words, a truly profound understanding of what is happening in physical matter can only be achieved BY VIEWING IT FROM THE NEXT HIGHER LEVEL OF MATTER.

QUESTION: So phenomena such as radioactive decay are not part of the evidence which would support this transformation? This is not part of the "maturing" of matter?

EINSTEIN: That's a different phenomenon.

QUESTION: Is there something in the rapidly evolving study of sub-nuclear particles which would reflect the changes we've been talking about? Would a new look a these tiny particles lead to discoveries which would support your idea of a life force which is sweeping matter from a subtle plane to a denser plane and then back to a more subtle plane? I'm talking about the mesons and that type of particle.

EINSTEIN: All the little guys. [Laughter]

QUESTION: Yes. Would it help the scientists who are studying these phenomena to consider what we've been discussing?

EINSTEIN: In general, I believe not. Let me say this. Being able to prove the transformation of matter through physical experimentation would not really help science achieve what I think should be its basic goal, which is TO BEGIN VIEWING PHYSICAL PHENOMENA AND PHYSICAL MATTER AS PART OF A MUCH LARGER PHENOMENA.

It would essentially just keep scientists trapped in the physical, validating and verifying their physical observations. It is necessary to run experiments which validate one's observations, but it is extremely limiting to view physical matter only from the physical plane. TO UNDERSTAND MATTER, THE PHYSICIST MUST STUDY IT FROM THE LEVEL OF SUBTLE, NON-PHYSICAL ENERGIES.

QUESTION: Well, other than draw analogies from medicine and psychology, how does the physicist do that?

EINSTEIN: He sets up an apparatus to view etheric matter.

QUESTION: Of course. [Laughter]

Another questioner: Deux ex machina. [More laughter]

QUESTION: Can you describe this apparatus?

EINSTEIN: Well, he would take a wire from over here and a wire from up there [motioning with his hands] and combine them with a power supply. And poof! Out would come the indwelling life. [Laughter]

QUESTION: Is it practical, all kidding aside, for modern electronic engineers or physicists to build devices to study etheric matter?

EINSTEIN: We're getting there.

QUESTION: It's achievable?

EINSTEIN: Of course. It's all a part of the evolution of scientific thinking. It's just that up until now, scientists have basically been limited to studying physical matter. Now they must study the underlying currents and energies which influence physical matter.

QUESTION: Right. Well, this leads to my next question. It seems that the study of matter and subatomic particles has reached a practical limit. In many ways, scientists have gone to the very edge of the physical plane. They are now at a kind of interface between the etheric and the dense physical planes, and they don't quite know what they are looking at. Is there something of the phenomena of the interface itself which could be studied now, leading them on to the further implications we've been discussing?

An analogy would be the study of the interface between water vapour and liquid water. Obviously, there are certain phenomena which occur at the interface, as the water moves back and forth between its liquid and its gaseous forms.

EINSTEIN: And so, to extend the analogy, you are asking if this can be done at the interface between etheric and dense physical matter. Yes, it can, and I'm sure it is being done. But we are in need of a breakthrough.

QUESTION: Is it being done with an awareness that an interface is being studied, or is it being done in the belief that it is part of the known physical level of matter?

EINSTEIN: Oh, I don't think of people working on this suspect that the are at an interface. It's more a case of discovering certain levels of matter, which clearly exist but are not observable in any way from the physical level of existence. And the implications of what this means are beginning to creep into the thinking of the people involved.

QUESTION: What line of direction would you suggest for their further exploration? Looking at the phenomena of bevatrons, cyclotrons, and Wilson cloud chambers? Or should they study electricity or magnetic phenomena?

EINSTEIN: Well, I'm not in a position to give you the breakthrough itself, here in this interview.

QUESTION: It would sell more books. [Laughter]

EINSTEIN: At least to the handful of people who are actually working on such projects. It wouldn't make much sense to anyone else.

You could go in almost any of the directions you just mentioned and find the interface. The key is studying the qualities and characteristics behind the physical movement of atoms. This would reveal that there are subtler particles interacting with the atoms of physical matter.

QUESTION: Are you saying they should speculate on the electromagnetic phenomena within the nucleus of the atom — that some of this is really extremely subtle matter rather than force?

EINSTEIN: Yes.

QUESTION: And that this subtle force somehow turns into matter and that matter turns back into this force?

EINSTEIN: Folds back on itself, so to speak. I couldn't have said it better myself. But keep in mind that it's very easy for us to sit here and say you ought to study this instead of that. In practical terms, it's more a matter of trial and error until we achieve the breakthrough. The wok is being done and it is in competent hands.

It is somewhat simplistic to say, yes, you ought to take the nucleus of an atom and examine its subtle matter. Saying that still leaves the practical question of how you do it, of how you develop devices to measure it, and so on. That is what is taking time.

There are many of us here that are pushing the investigators in the right direction. They have not yet made the major breakthrough, but it is coming. It will be a confirmation of the existence of realms of life which are not measurable in physical terms, beginning with the etheric plane.

QUESTION: Okay. I want to ask you about a few physicists who are busy exploring the relationship between certain Eastern philosophies and nuclear physics. There is a man I know, Fritjof Capra, who wrote a relatively popular book called The Tao of Physics, in which he speculates on some of these possibilities. The same can be said about another book, The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukav.

EINSTEIN: Excellent books. They should be read by everyone with an interest in science. There's a need for more of this kind of speculation. The melding of East and West is, of course, proceeding on schedule. Physicists need to discover the link between the mind and what the mind perceives in physical matter. It has always been assumed, up through the last several years, that the scientist is limited by the restrictions of the physical plane itself. What we must realise is that it is not the physical limitations which restrict science but the mental limitations of the scientists! Until this is understood, the major breakthrough will not be forthcoming.

QUESTION: I would presume; then, that the laboratory the scientist will use to explore these interfaces will not be some monumentally expensive laboratory costing tens of millions of dollars, but simply the imaginative minds of brilliant physicists and their grasp of esoteric mathematics. The language of mathematics, after all, lets you speculate about non-physical states, fourth-dimensional forms of movement, and all that exciting stuff.

EINSTEIN: That's right. It's particularly important for the scientist now to examine the limitations of his thinking about the physical realm, rather than try to devise more and more complex physical devices.

QUESTION: They can put hat cyclotron away and go back to the drawing board. [Laughter] Would it be helpful to study some of the works of the great mystery school founded by Pythagoras?

EINSTEIN: Ah, I see the point you are bringing up, and I will expand on it a little. In ancient times, there was a much greater understanding of the relationship between the mind and physical matter.

QUESTION: You're talking about the ancient antecedents of our present civilisation?

EINSTEIN: Yes.

QUESTION: The ancient Greeks and Egyptians?

EINSTEIN: Yes. Although they were not necessarily as sophisticated as we are in dealing with physical matter and machines, they were much more enlightened and efficient in what they did use. Their science was quite sophisticated. An example which is frequently cited is the astonishing achievement of the PYRAMIDS. I would live to have some construction company bid on BUILDING A PYRAMID today and see if it would be economically feasible. [Laughter] I'm sure it would not be.

My point is that humanity is not really better off today in our intellectual understanding of matter, in spite of our technology and scientific advances, than we were thousands of years ago.

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