Hello,

I need to put an overlay over a QTVR.

Is there a way to achieve this with Pano2QTVR?

Alternatively, could somebody with software who can do this help me /
point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Yuv

Hi Yuv,

> I need to put an overlay over a QTVR.
>
> Is there a way to achieve this with Pano2QTVR?

Yes! Just go to "Additional Sprites" click "Add", select the file you
want (JPEG, GIF, PNG, SWF what ever), check visible and position it
where ever you want.

MfG, Thomas

Jeffrey,

This is deffinitly something I am interested in too.  I have a couple series of
spherical pans that I want to display as spherical movies.  I have only done a
little
research into this.  I have found nothing that will work 100%.  My notes are at
home.
DevalVR has the most promise.  Virtual Tour Express http://www.imatronics.com
  may have a solution too.  I have not tried their latest version, but I believe
it is
Windows only.

http://info.adnn.com/  Is another posibility but it works best when there is
little
change between frames.  Only a small part animated.

Please keep me informed of any discoveries you make.

Note:  I am posting this to panotoolsng@yahoogroups.com
   PanoTools Next Generation:
   * any discussion of technology, techniques, materials for panorama creation.

Jim

On Mon, July 10, 2006 9:32 am, jeffrey said:
> well now i have 20 (for example) panos from the same spot and i'd like
> to be able to "move forward and backward" through time in addition to
> looking around in different directions. i guess this is a lot of data.
> .. . .
>
> any suggestions?
>
> the quicktime solution for pano video is not nice - it's just a video
> that happens to wrap around, and scroll left and right.
>
> as of now, devalVR has the best solution for multiple panos, however
> there is still no "autoplay" to go from one image to the next, it is
> by mouse only....
>




Jim Watters

Yahoo ID: j1vvy ymsgr:sendIM?j1vvy
jwatters @ photocreations . ca
http://photocreations.ca

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that I just released Pano2QTVR 1.2.8.
This latest version includes 10 languages:

English (en)
French (fr) - Jean-Marc Paratte, Michel Thoby
Italian (it) - Yuval Levy, Luca Vascon
Portuguese (pt_br) - Eduardo Hutter, Fábio Bustamente
German (de) - Peter Nyfeler
Dutch (nl)- Serge Maandag, Erik Van den Broeck, Bert Vierstra
Swedish (sv) - Hans Lundberg
Spanish (es) - Roberto Gomez Torres, Iñaki Rezola
Russian (ru)- Alex Makienko
Catalan (ca) - fotopanoramic.com

A big "Thank You" to all translators.

I also fixed some minor bugs.

This version can be downloaded at http://www.pano2qtvr.com/download/

MfG,
      Thomas.

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Rauscher <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I just wanted to let you know that I just released Pano2QTVR 1.2.8.
> This latest version includes 10 languages:
>
> English (en)
> French (fr) - Jean-Marc Paratte, Michel Thoby
> Italian (it) - Yuval Levy, Luca Vascon
> Portuguese (pt_br) - Eduardo Hutter, Fábio Bustamente
> German (de) - Peter Nyfeler
> Dutch (nl)- Serge Maandag, Erik Van den Broeck, Bert Vierstra
> Swedish (sv) - Hans Lundberg
> Spanish (es) - Roberto Gomez Torres, Iñaki Rezola
> Russian (ru)- Alex Makienko
> Catalan (ca) - fotopanoramic.com
>
> A big "Thank You" to all translators.
>
> I also fixed some minor bugs.
>
> This version can be downloaded at http://www.pano2qtvr.com/download/
>
> MfG,
>      Thomas.
>

Thank you Thomas - downloading it right now. P.S. I use the English
version, but thanks also to the people who worked on the translations.

I just bought a pro license, WONDERFUL program!
Thanks Thomas!

Since the list is fairly mature already at it's start
perhaps it would be well to pay attention to the
special features yahoo, the web, and computers offer.
For a start it would be nice to set up a faq, list of
links ( prefferably by topic ), to use the tools yahoo
offers, something other than archived threads. Anyone
want to form a working group to develope some of the
tools available?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

As I have a look at Yahoo's special features... they first have to clean
up the mess in their mails. I'm lucky that I haven't yet switched to
digest delivery of my messages. I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.

Please (as your favourite dictator ;-) of the list) keep the replies
tidy, i.e. edit your mails when answering... Thanks! I can be soooo
mean! =8-)

And responding to your message: good idea but I guess we will have
another wiki soon and that includes a faq and no quarterly bills :-)

But why not? Let's try the features...

Carl

de gava wrote:
>
>
> Since the list is fairly mature already at it's start
> perhaps it would be well to pay attention to the
> special features yahoo, the web, and computers offer.
> For a start it would be nice to set up a faq, list of
> links ( prefferably by topic ), to use the tools yahoo
> offers, something other than archived threads. Anyone
> want to form a working group to develope some of the
> tools available?

Greetings, oh great and knowledgeable community of panoramic
enthusiasts!

Some of you may be able to help with this panorama related query...

I am setting up a gallery of panoramic images that are currently
displayed as "flat" JPEGs, but I would like the option to present
them as VRs. I am using a PHP/db-driven gallery software (Gallery2)
which dynamically creates the gallery pages. You can see the initial
test results here:

http://www.mab3d.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=21

What I would like to find is a Java VR display solution that can show
each "distorted" image in the typical VR fashion, but reading the
image source from the dynamically generated page. Would any Java VR
display method (PTViewer, Immervision, etc.) work? I understand PHP
to some degree, but have very little experience with the various Java
VR solutions out there and how they define their image sources. All I
know is that I want a link on each gallery page to open the current
image in a VR view, and I would assume that a common PHP page could
handle this. Has anyone done this ;-) , and do they have any wisdom
to share about how to do it, or what to avoid?

BTW, I am aware the Gallery2 package has a "java panorama viewer"
component, but it doesn't work consistently on all platforms, and
truly doesn't work at all with equirectangular images like those
shown in my initial gallery.

-Mark

Carl von Einem wrote:
> As I have a look at Yahoo's special features... they first have to clean
> up the mess in their mails. I'm lucky that I haven't yet switched to
> digest delivery of my messages. I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.
>
> Please (as your favourite dictator ;-) of the list) keep the replies
> tidy, i.e. edit your mails when answering...

But *do include* what you're commenting on or no one will know what
you're talking about.

> Thanks! I can be soooo
> mean! =8-)

You big brute!

> And responding to your message: good idea but I guess we will have
> another wiki soon and that includes a faq and no quarterly bills :-)
>
> But why not? Let's try the features...Carl
>
> de gava wrote:
>>
>> Since the list is fairly mature already at it's start
>> perhaps it would be well to pay attention to the
>> special features yahoo, the web, and computers offer.
>> For a start it would be nice to set up a faq, list of
>> links ( prefferably by topic ), to use the tools yahoo
>> offers, something other than archived threads. Anyone
>> want to form a working group to develope some of the
>> tools available?




Pat Swovelin
Cool Guy @ Large

one of my egos wrote:
> I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.

...and just switched from 'full featured emails' to 'traditional', so
much better for my eyes.

On 11/07/2006, at 9:02 AM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
> What I would like to find is a Java VR display solution that can show
> each "distorted" image in the typical VR fashion, but reading the
> image source from the dynamically generated page.

The PHP should be simple, once you determine which viewer you want to
use, and whether you want to show them in a new window (pop-up - full
screen or otherwise) or the original window. Can't help with the
viewers (although I do have a personal favorite I'm a bit out of
touch with current best recommendations) but if you'd like help with
the PHP I'm happy to look at it.

Cheers,
KathyW.

ahuum,

Yahoo and such html email suck, always have and always will, untill
standards are achieved.
email should just be that and no more: plain text that ALL READERS can read.

Let's not buy into the marketing  emphasis, less is really more here
if we are to stick to email,, and I wish we quit the Yahoo model
alltogether. Look at the garbage below, I couldn't even design a
crappy sig like that even if I wanted to

-m (flooded with emails and ranting in ascii)


On 7/11/06, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> one of my egos wrote:
>  > I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.
>
>
>  ...and just switched from 'full featured emails' to 'traditional', so
>  much better for my eyes.
>
>
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the panotoolsng
group.

   File        : /Etiquette
   Uploaded by : yuval_levy <yuval_levy@...>
   Description : sent to new members

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/panotoolsng/files/Etiquette

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

yuval_levy <yuval_levy@...>

On Jul 10, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Kathy Wheeler wrote:

> On 11/07/2006, at 9:02 AM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
>> What I would like to find is a Java VR display solution that can show
>> each "distorted" image in the typical VR fashion, but reading the
>> image source from the dynamically generated page.
>
> The PHP should be simple, once you determine which viewer you want to
> use, and whether you want to show them in a new window (pop-up - full
> screen or otherwise) or the original window. Can't help with the
> viewers (although I do have a personal favorite I'm a bit out of
> touch with current best recommendations) but if you'd like help with
> the PHP I'm happy to look at it.

Thanks, Kathy. I just might take you up on that...

I guess what I should look for is the easiest to configure applet to
read the image from the page and simply display it. Nothing too
fancy, but an easier to understand "visual format" for non-pano folk
(as opposed to an equirect). I have lots of experience with QTVR, but
that is useless here as I would have to make individual QTVRs of each
equirectangular I upload and the files would be directly referenced.
Fine for a fullscreen gallery, but nuts for just an additional way to
look at images. I know people like Yuval have done this already, so
I'll wait until he has had his dinner and hope can opine on viewers
and techniques. ;-)

-Mark

On 11/07/2006, at 12:05 PM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
> I guess what I should look for is the easiest to configure applet to
> read the image from the page and simply display it.

No, really, you don't want to do that, seriously.

Your page contains thumbnails - nice, small files, fast to load. They
can each be a link that will call a page (same one if you want) that
will bring up the (java) pano in it's own window or in the base page,
downloading the full sized image only when (or if) it's needed. All
you need to do is pass your PHP script a variable that will identify
the image you want to display, and have a function or routine to
handle it in the script. Pretty simple stuff.

Cheers,
KathyW.

So umm ermm, odd shift of topic.... I dunno, I dunno... ( scratches
chin  :)> you don't like Yahoo ? Well I guess the concept can be
improved vastly and in many ways (' rather expect that!) What are we
talking about? Arhcie and Veronica, golfer... or some usenet news
reader? Take it to the Max max, how can we use THIS medium? open to
observations.- de
what an odd email. prob don mater oriculus datum, ermmmm

Let's have a poll on pan software, each vote weighted by how much they
favoured the tool? How about a lenses page? etc. You no doubt know or
suspect that VR and GE* belong together, how much more will this
convergence expose and decree? What's been going on with the wiki?
that sounds like something important. is it?

Anyone who knows my namesake will perhaps remember his attemps to
enrichen the medium, in a sense he's the inventor of MTV and much
else. What would Mozart do with the compositional/performance tools
available? Perhaps go mad?

I'm after the richest experience. I've thought about it for afew years
( sorry, low buget ) I'd like to go to DVD, cd, web. I keep tabs on
what's happening and 'it' has a great deal further to go yet. Now with
Digi cams getting good the web/dvd can be a fair backbone to support
Immmersive Video.

BTW there's a QtVR of a hanglider with wing cams as well as the
copilot/cameraman which is well into it... Still  nice to tighen
things up , is the author about?.  Who's our Hogarth?

If one takes many pics from varying positions is it possible to create
one pic that is higher in definition than a single shot would yeild?
ie of the same print size?

*Google Earth

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
>
> one of my egos wrote:
> > I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.
>
> ...and just switched from 'full featured emails' to 'traditional', so
> much better for my eyes.
>

Sorry , in transition and I just caught up...

So what sort of categories migh we want? Pans, Software, Utilility,
Price weighting against utiliity for various uses. Comment on Lenses,
camerae(?), spit it out we'll edit later.

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mickael therer" <360days@...> wrote:
>
> ahuum,
>
> Yahoo and such html email suck, always have and always will, untill
> standards are achieved.
> email should just be that and no more: plain text that ALL READERS
can read.
>
> Let's not buy into the marketing  emphasis, less is really more here
> if we are to stick to email,, and I wish we quit the Yahoo model
> alltogether. Look at the garbage below, I couldn't even design a
> crappy sig like that even if I wanted to
>
> -m (flooded with emails and ranting in ascii)
>
>
> On 7/11/06, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > one of my egos wrote:
> >  > I just deleted over 80 lines of garbage.
> >
> >
> >  ...and just switched from 'full featured emails' to 'traditional', so
> >  much better for my eyes.
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, de gava <wblakesx@...> wrote:
> For a start it would be nice to set up a faq, list of...

Anything else?

For a start, it would be nice if you would introduce yourself. I had a
pleasure, like the other moderators, to read that you "did some pano
work 6 years ago, I want to develope 'vr' skills. ". I searched for
"de gava" and for your email address and came across nothing vr but
the June 12 yahoo mail worm that infected so many YahooGroups. I don't
even know if "de gava" is your real name. From Google I found out that
you are probably in Miami and you might have written an article about
voting machines fraud. Hot weather, eh dude?

You will find an FAQ at <http://ptfaq.org/> - and there are other
community ressources which at the moment are... uhum... still hijacked
and hence I will not link them here. I am sure you can operate
google.com, right? and maybe structure your findings as an FAQ or a
list of links and share them with us?

Maybe I was not clear when I wrote the welcome message to this list -
specifically what is on topic and what is not. I've added a second
bullet to that message under "off topic". There is another list that
deals with how we want to organize ourself. Feel free to read it and
make yourself aquainted with the little insignificant problems that
this community is currently dealing with. Then make whatever
proposition seems sensible to you. I suspect that for the time being
you will not find many volunteers for your plans, but nice try anyway.

Yuv

Hi Mark,

I am not exactly sure I understand what you are trying to achieve
here, but there are a few possibilities. I will first ask you some
questions to understand your needs.

When you write about an an <quote> easier to understand "visual
format" for non-pano folk (as opposed to an equirect) </quote> do you
mean for the thumbnail or for the image as a whole? and do you want
the image to be interactive, i.e. the user to click and drag inside
like a VR, or do you want to show a transformed version of the
equirect, flat on the page?

There are a number of viewing technologies. My take on them is to be
agnostic and try to deliver the VR in whatever technology is available
on the browser.

The basic dynamic page will just have the tags for the VR technology
and will replace the file at the appropriate place. You can see such
an example at
<http://www.items.ch/panoramas/panorama.asp?filenum=298> (PT 185kB)
<http://www.items.ch/panoramas/panorama.asp?filenum=300> (QT 684kB)

(BTW, that's me with Jean-Marc Paratte discussing the French
translation of Pano2QTVR and other fun stuff while it was pouring rain
outside). Jean-Marc holds the copyright for the ASP script and the pano.

A similar approach in PHP (wont work for much longer as I have to
remake completely that website - it is not even Eola compliant):

<http://www.photopla.net/pano.php?id=63>

The filenum or id parameters tell the script what panorama out of a
list, usually in a database, to display. In Jean-Marc's script it also
determine the technology. My script is mono-technology and thus
inferior: people w/o Java won't see it, while people w/o Java but with
QuickTime will see the second link from Jean-Marc.

Choice is the difficult stage - most people do not know nor care what
panorama displaying technology the have on their computer. This is why
I wrote Brocap, a tool to detect the technology available and use it.

You can see Brocap in use at two sites. My commercial site for real
estate, e.g. <http://www.voxcasa.com/visite.php?sia=x42500> will
display in five different technologies.

A different approach was developed together with Bernhard Vogl for his
<http://www.austria-360.at/>.

The main difference is in the master format of the VR. For me it is
the equirect, while for Bernhard it is the QTVR. He has scripts that
transform on the spot a QTVR into Spi-V cubefaces. The jointly
developed scripts are available at <http://dativ.at/brocap/> and I
should fix the bugs and release the latest version at
<http://br.xenaura.com/> - with a little bit of PHP knowledge you'll
get Bernhard's version up and running fairly quick, but it has no Java
support because using Java to display the QTVR format is tricky and
does not always work.

This is why I took the equirectangular as input format. I have written
a script to transform the equirectangular into the different output
formats (using Pano2QTVR for the QTVRs and ImageMagick / PanoTools for
the rest), although the transformations can also be done manually.
This runs offline, so it requires more storage space on the server but
is faster in the delivery process.

I am currently examining a few content management systems to see if I
can integrate my viewing technology as a module / plug in. Then,
publishing panos dynamically will become as easy as writing text with
a word processor.

Yuv

On Jul 10, 2006, at 10:35 PM, Kathy Wheeler wrote:

>
> On 11/07/2006, at 12:05 PM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
>> I guess what I should look for is the easiest to configure applet to
>> read the image from the page and simply display it.
>
> No, really, you don't want to do that, seriously.
>
> Your page contains thumbnails - nice, small files, fast to load. They
> can each be a link that will call a page (same one if you want) that
> will bring up the (java) pano in it's own window or in the base page,
> downloading the full sized image only when (or if) it's needed. All
> you need to do is pass your PHP script a variable that will identify
> the image you want to display, and have a function or routine to
> handle it in the script. Pretty simple stuff.

Heh, "simple" for you perhaps! 8-}

I am thinking that each pano would be linked from an image-specific
page like this one:
http://www.mab3d.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=40
not necc. from the thumbnails page, but that is academic.

I guess my thinking (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that since the
image has already been loaded on the page at an acceptable resolution
(1000x500) then it would be a matter of referencing that same image
in the the source of the Java VR. In other words the PHP for the new
window with the pano would build off of whatever the Gallery page
defined as the source of the main image, which in this case is this
cryptic bit of code going back to the database:
img src="main.php?
g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16&g2_serialNumber=2"

IIRC: I think this is done to prevent wholesale image theft, and to
allow high-res images to be uploaded and resampled for various views
automatically, but these images are actually JPEG-HDR, so they are
not resampled at all (or they would lose the 32-bit depth) but their
location is known only in the database entries.

What I think you are saying is that I need to look at the PHP for the
Gallery display pages and figure out how it goes from thumbnail to
main image and defines that img src, and then to do the same in my
panoviewer PHP. Correct? Does it matter that at the time the
panoviewer page is called the previous page already has the correct
database entry in the generated page it is linked from?

Sorry if this is all "way basic PHP" for you, but I'm trying to
shoehorn a feature into a gallery setup that already meets 90% of my
needs.

-Mark

On Jul 10, 2006, at 11:37 PM, yuval_levy wrote:

> When you write about an an <quote> easier to understand "visual
> format" for non-pano folk (as opposed to an equirect) </quote> do you
> mean for the thumbnail or for the image as a whole? and do you want
> the image to be interactive, i.e. the user to click and drag inside
> like a VR, or do you want to show a transformed version of the
> equirect, flat on the page?

Hi Yuv,

Image as a whole, click-and-drag JavaVR. I'd prefer JavaVR (whatever
type) mainly because my images are already equirectangulars and would
work as a source - and because Java has a much greater installed base
than Shockwave (for Spi-V).

> The basic dynamic page will just have the tags for the VR technology
> and will replace the file at the appropriate place. You can see such
> an example at
> <http://www.items.ch/panoramas/panorama.asp?filenum=298> (PT 185kB)
> <http://www.items.ch/panoramas/panorama.asp?filenum=300> (QT 684kB)

While I am sure the delice was just that, the above links are pretty
much what I want to avoid: no pano ever displayed from either link.
I think panoserve.atoms.ch wasn't responding fast enough (or at all)...

As Kathy and Sacha have alluded to, this is probably dead simple if I
know what I'm doing. Problem is that I'm starting out with a pretty
fully-developed gallery system and image manager, but trying to stick
this onto it. Might be better for me to start asking questions of the
kind folks who developed the gallery in the first place. If only
their VR viewer actually *worked* I wouldn't have to consider this! I
might not even pursue it in the end, if only because it could be such
a waste of time for what amounts to meeting a need I don't know if I
have. I mean, these aren't real estate images - these are simply
panoramic HDR images!

BTW, now that some of you have actually loaded the "high-res"
equirectangular image onto your screen - congratulations, you have
been served one of the few truly High Dynamic Range Images viewable
on the internet! In other words, your browser thought that was a
tonemapped JPEG, but the image itself contains the 32-bit luminance
data just waiting for you to copy it to your desktop and open it with
Photosphere or something else that reads JPEG-HDR files.

In the very near future, those of us with HDR monitors won't see the
tonemapped version, but rather a luminously glowing image surrounded
by the otherwise flat, grey interface of a naive browser. Pretty cool
once you think about it...

-Mark

On 11/07/2006, at 2:18 PM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
> I guess my thinking (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that since the
> image has already been loaded on the page at an acceptable resolution
> (1000x500) then it would be a matter of referencing that same image
> in the the source of the Java VR. In other words the PHP for the new
> window with the pano would build off of whatever the Gallery page
> defined as the source of the main image, which in this case is this
> cryptic bit of code going back to the database:
> img src="main.php?
> g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16&g2_serialNumber=2"

I just did a right click "View Image" on that img and it certainly
came up too fast to be coming from anywhere other than the browser
cache so in theory it should work fine. The only thing I am a little
uncertain of is how the java viewers interface with the browser/
server. IF they simply call for the image as (in this case) "main.php?
g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16&g2_serialNumber=2"
then it should work. Certainly worth a try.

> What I think you are saying is that I need to look at the PHP for the
> Gallery display pages and figure out how it goes from thumbnail to
> main image and defines that img src, and then to do the same in my
> panoviewer PHP. Correct?

Yes.

> Does it matter that at the time the
> panoviewer page is called the previous page already has the correct
> database entry in the generated page it is linked from?

Shouldn't do. The index for that image should not change. I haven't
looked at the PHP for Gallery2 to be certain, but it's certainly
worth a try. If you need any help feel free to contact me off-list so
we don't bore the good people here with technical coding, just the
announcement when you get it working ;-)

Cheers,
KathyW.

http://www.panotoolsng.org/

Wiki?

--
best regards,

Bert Vierstra

http://www.360rage.com/
http://www.bali3d.com/

On 11/07/2006, at 2:45 PM, Mark Banas (lists) wrote:
> In the very near future, those of us with HDR monitors won't see the
> tonemapped version, but rather a luminously glowing image surrounded
> by the otherwise flat, grey interface of a naive browser. Pretty cool
> once you think about it...

Where do I get me one of those monitors and can I afford it (think I
know the answer to the last bit :-(

KathyW.

Prior to John forcing everyone's hand when he went suicidal last night
the group was working towards creating a Verein and that was virtually
complete until Michael tossed the IVRPA into the mix and everything was
thrown into disarray.

That's history but the significant part is when our hand was forced the
1st very thing we did was to start a new Yahoo list (2 actually at
virtually the same time which increases my point) to give everyone a
place to go and decide what to do next.  It seems that if the group's
mindset was towards joining something (Help!  Help!  Save me.) we
would've immediately joined the IVRPA en mass and encouraged other
like-minded people to do so.

But we didn't.

We created a new list to form our own organization because we're
independent and want to stay that way.  When there's a problem we don't
look for someone to save us we save ourselves.  We're internalizers and
not externalizers.  That's the mark of an independent group/individual
that wants to stay that way.

And that dear readers is why we should pursue the Verein over the IVRPA,
it's in our DNA and doing anything less is denying our true nature.




Pat Swovelin
Cool Guy @ Large

I thought this stuff, and the post above, still belonged in the
Panotools List. Or are we going to have two political lists?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Swovelin" <Panoramas@...>
To: "PanotoolsNG Yahoo group" <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:58 PM
Subject: [PanoToolsNG] The Verein vs. the IVRPA ...


> Prior to John forcing everyone's hand when he went suicidal last night
> the group was working towards creating a Verein and that was virtually
> complete until Michael tossed the IVRPA into the mix and everything was
> thrown into disarray.
>
> That's history but the significant part is when our hand was forced the
> 1st very thing we did was to start a new Yahoo list (2 actually at
> virtually the same time which increases my point) to give everyone a
> place to go and decide what to do next.  It seems that if the group's
> mindset was towards joining something (Help!  Help!  Save me.) we
> would've immediately joined the IVRPA en mass and encouraged other
> like-minded people to do so.
>
> But we didn't.
>
> We created a new list to form our own organization because we're
> independent and want to stay that way.  When there's a problem we don't
> look for someone to save us we save ourselves.  We're internalizers and
> not externalizers.  That's the mark of an independent group/individual
> that wants to stay that way.
>
> And that dear readers is why we should pursue the Verein over the IVRPA,
> it's in our DNA and doing anything less is denying our true nature.
>
>
>
>
> Pat Swovelin
> Cool Guy @ Large
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From time to time a summary of the political process should be sent to
the core group here and everyone who is interested is invited to get
involved in the process.  What I failed to add to the bottom of that
post was that can be done by joining the list at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Panotools-List




Pat Swovelin
Cool Guy @ Large

Jim Dawson wrote:
> I thought this stuff, and the post above, still belonged in the
> Panotools List. Or are we going to have two political lists?

*Absolutely not!*  I posted to the wrong list but by the time I found
out about it it was too late to do anything about it.

> Jim




Pat Swovelin
Cool Guy @ Large

not too bad... ;-)


yuval_levy wrote:
> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, de gava <wblakesx@...> wrote:
>> For a start it would be nice to set up a faq, list of...
>
> Anything else?
>
> For a start, it would be nice if you would introduce yourself. I had a
> pleasure, like the other moderators, to read that you "did some pano
> work 6 years ago, I want to develope 'vr' skills. ". I searched for
> "de gava" and for your email address and came across nothing vr but
> the June 12 yahoo mail worm that infected so many YahooGroups. I don't
> even know if "de gava" is your real name. From Google I found out that
> you are probably in Miami and you might have written an article about
> voting machines fraud. Hot weather, eh dude?
>
> You will find an FAQ at <http://ptfaq.org/> - and there are other
> community ressources which at the moment are... uhum... still hijacked
> and hence I will not link them here. I am sure you can operate
> google.com, right? and maybe structure your findings as an FAQ or a
> list of links and share them with us?
>
> Maybe I was not clear when I wrote the welcome message to this list -
> specifically what is on topic and what is not. I've added a second
> bullet to that message under "off topic". There is another list that
> deals with how we want to organize ourself. Feel free to read it and
> make yourself aquainted with the little insignificant problems that
> this community is currently dealing with. Then make whatever
> proposition seems sensible to you. I suspect that for the time being
> you will not find many volunteers for your plans, but nice try anyway.
>
> Yuv
>
>