Sometime around 2/9/08 (at 09:55 +0200) Jeffrey Martin said:

>http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/09/02/red-plans-dslr-based.html

>Mysterium "Monstro" is a sensor program that pushes the
>envelope past anything on the horizon. It will go into Epic, and another
>camera aimed squarely at the DSLR market. Epic ships with Mysterium-X and
>has a free upgrade to Monstro.

Interesting, but short on specifics and long on fuzzy talk.

Compressed RAW at almost 24fps at what resolution? I doubt we're
talking about 12MP or higher here, so at dSLR resolution levels
rather than digital video levels that's likely to be in today's
dSLR's burst mode speeds.

What's said about sensors is... well, actually essentially nothing at all.

"Pushes the envelope past anything on the horizon" is such an
unquantifiable puff-piece statement that I'm amazed nobody in those
forums has called him on it. I trawled those forums and the Red site
and I'm essentially none the wiser about any of this.

(I'm less amazed that the boingboing writer didn't think about this,
as his posts don't display a great deal of critical depth and show no
knowledge of professional photography either. Hey-ho.)

k

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

> What's said about sensors is... well, actually essentially nothing at all.

Yes, this was the meaning behind my "How so?" question. I had thought maybe the
poster
found some additional info about the sensor beyond what I was able to locate
(which was
basically nothing) that they could share. Red is apparently active in the video
scene, but I do
not use video equipment to make my vr panoramic images. If they have new
developments in
a sensor for still image camera beyond what is currently in the market- well, it
would
certainly help to know a little more about just what that would be.

On 2 Sep 2008, at 10:01, Keith Martin wrote:

> Compressed RAW at almost 24fps at what resolution? I doubt we're
> talking about 12MP or higher here, so at dSLR resolution levels
> rather than digital video levels that's likely to be in today's
> dSLR's burst mode speeds.

Actually...

Their existing Red One shoots 4k @ 30fps. In 'photographic' terms,
that's 12MP, 12-bit RAW @ 30fps. That a future model might manage a
slower frame rate @ 12MP isn't any wonder at all.

Ian

Hello Yiorgos,

As long as the panorama is stitched with the Gigapan software, you can click on
a small link in the panorama description which will open a detail screen. You
can see the number of images there as well as the camera and some other useful
information.
(the website is down at the moment, so i can't show you the details)

Bernhard

Hello Aleksandr,

> My theory is that the JPEG processing is turning up the contrast when
> presented with a featureless image, thus making the corners darker.

This could be true. Thanks for reminding me on that fact. It wouldn't be the
first discovering the the camera will do some "enhancement" of the image during
post-processing. Todays digital cameras are certainly not designet for the task
"Set up the camera and shoot 1000 images exactly the same way"   :-)

Bernhard

The Epic is a 5k camera that can shoot at 100fps. It could be a no
brainer to pop the sensor into a Dslr body with pretty quick
processors and get maybe 24fps in a small camera. Part of Red success
is fan based so info is very spotty and their beta testers are their
customers. The Red One camera started delivering last Oct/Nov and
just a month ago is out of beta on the code and camera. Their fans
are very loyal and service is above average. They do have issues
since they are a very young company, less than 3 years old.

On Sep 2, 2008, at 2:40 AM, Ian Wood wrote:

>
> On 2 Sep 2008, at 10:01, Keith Martin wrote:
>
> > Compressed RAW at almost 24fps at what resolution? I doubt we're
> > talking about 12MP or higher here, so at dSLR resolution levels
> > rather than digital video levels that's likely to be in today's
> > dSLR's burst mode speeds.
>
> Actually...
>
> Their existing Red One shoots 4k @ 30fps. In 'photographic' terms,
> that's 12MP, 12-bit RAW @ 30fps. That a future model might manage a
> slower frame rate @ 12MP isn't any wonder at all.
>
> Ian
Cheers
Robert C. Fisher
VR Photography/Cinematography

Yes Jürgen,
what's really high resolution !!!
It's very nice to zoom in ;-)

All the best Bernd

jo4mail wrote:
> Hi Traugott,
>
> the gentleds are fine, but the GP does an initial calibrating on the
> servo, I dont know how this could be done with gent360.

If you go into the Expert Options you can change the 'Release Mode' to
'Digital'. Once you've done that, the PWM servo signal is replaced with
a simple +5V pulse.

There's enough current there to run a reed relay, which will provide a
contact closure for almost any electrical release. I suspect it may be
sufficient to directly trigger a Canon with CHDK, though a reed relay
would be safer.

-Zandr

After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon image, I
decided to have even more fun with mirrors.

Deval VR
<http://www.northernlight.net/multi_mirror.htm>

QuickTime
<http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>

Mark
www.nyc.360cities.net
www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
www.pinnacle-vr.com
www.northernlight.net

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Mark D. Fink
<markdfink@...>wrote:

> After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon image,


I haven't seen it !
what's the link ?



> I decided to have even more fun with mirrors.
>
> QuickTime
> <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>
>

Very funny :-)
I liked.
Thanks

best
AYRTON


>
> Mark
> www.nyc.360cities.net
> www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
> www.pinnacle-vr.com
> www.northernlight.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>
>


--
------------
| A Y R |
| T O N |
------------

+ 55 21 9982 6313

http://ayrton360.com
http://rio.360cities.net
http://vrfolio.com
http://ayrton.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> If you go into the Expert Options you can change the 'Release Mode' to
> 'Digital'. Once you've done that, the PWM servo signal is replaced with
> a simple +5V pulse.
>
> There's enough current there to run a reed relay, which will provide a
> contact closure for almost any electrical release. I suspect it may be
> sufficient to directly trigger a Canon with CHDK, though a reed relay
> would be safer.
>
> -Zandr
>

thats really good news
as GPs specs are very moderate and GPs customer support is a little
bit reticent

thanks

AYRTON, Glad you liked it!

Milko's was here:

<http://360image.de/test/drmattnolan.html>

Mark
www.nyc.360cities.net
www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
www.pinnacle-vr.com
www.northernlight.net


>-----Original Message-----
>From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of AYRTON
>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:45 AM
>To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Fun with mirrors
>
>On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Mark D. Fink
><markdfink@...>wrote:
>
>> After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon image,
>
>
>I haven't seen it !
>what's the link ?
>
>
>
>> I decided to have even more fun with mirrors.
>>
>> QuickTime
>> <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>
>>
>
>Very funny :-)
>I liked.
>Thanks
>
>best
>AYRTON

Your devalvr code doesn't work in ff3. FYI



Wow, finally I can appreciate the feeling some people sometimes report about
feeling sick when viewing vrs.



That was not pleasant.



But I'm glad I saw it. It was interesting.  J





Sacha Griffin

Southern Digital Solutions LLC

http://www.southern-digital.com

http://www.seeit360.net

404-551-4275







From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Mark D. Fink
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:37 AM
To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Fun with mirrors



After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon image, I
decided to have even more fun with mirrors.

Deval VR
<http://www.northernlight.net/multi_mirror.htm>

QuickTime
<http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>

Mark
www.nyc.360cities.net
www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
www.pinnacle-vr.com
www.northernlight.net





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark, is this link correct? I see no mirrorball here...


Mark D. Fink wrote:
>
> AYRTON, Glad you liked it!
>
> Milko's was here:
>
> <http://360image.de/test/drmattnolan.html
> <http://360image.de/test/drmattnolan.html>>
>
> Mark
> www.nyc.360cities.net
> www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
> www.pinnacle-vr.com
> www.northernlight.net
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> >Behalf Of AYRTON
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:45 AM
> >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Fun with mirrors
> >
> >On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Mark D. Fink
> ><markdfink@...
> <mailto:markdfink%40northernlight.net>>wrote:
> >
> >> After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon image,
> >
> >
> >I haven't seen it !
> >what's the link ?
> >
> >
> >
> >> I decided to have even more fun with mirrors.
> >>
> >> QuickTime
> >> <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm
> <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>>
> >>
> >
> >Very funny :-)
> >I liked.
> >Thanks
> >
> >best
> >AYRTON
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

But where are the infinitely-reflecting mirror images of the other
mirrors? ;-)

Ian

On 2 Sep 2008, at 15:36, Mark D. Fink wrote:

> After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon
> image, I
> decided to have even more fun with mirrors.
>
> Deval VR
> <http://www.northernlight.net/multi_mirror.htm>
>
> QuickTime
> <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Ian Wood <panolists@...>wrote:

> But where are the infinitely-reflecting mirror images of the other
> mirrors? ;-)



Yeahhhh this would be nice :-)

AYRTON



>
>
> Ian
>
> On 2 Sep 2008, at 15:36, Mark D. Fink wrote:
>
> > After being inspired by Milko's recent mirrorball on the horizon
> > image, I
> > decided to have even more fun with mirrors.
> >
> > Deval VR
> > <http://www.northernlight.net/multi_mirror.htm>
> >
> > QuickTime
> > <http://www.northernlight.net/qt_multi_mirror.htm>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>
>


--
------------
| A Y R |
| T O N |
------------

+ 55 21 9982 6313

http://ayrton360.com
http://rio.360cities.net
http://vrfolio.com
http://ayrton.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ian,
> But where are the infinitely-reflecting mirror images of the other
> mirrors? ;-)

I have started, but thats more mork than I wanted ;-)
Its like one step forward and 2 back, 3step foward and....wait a minute.

Cheers, Milko

--
Milko K.Amorth
ph:604.561.5101
fx:604.909.5125

www.VRCanada.ca
360° Immersive Imaging
Skype: VRdundee

>-----Original Message-----
>From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of AYRTON
>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:16 PM
>To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Fun with mirrors
>
>On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Ian Wood
><panolists@...>wrote:
>
>> But where are the infinitely-reflecting mirror images of the other
>> mirrors? ;-)
>
>
>
>Yeahhhh this would be nice :-)
>
>AYRTON

That had crossed my mind, and I'm sure Prof. Dersch could figure out how to
do that, but I'm just a mere mortal. :o)

Mark
www.nyc.360cities.net
www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
www.pinnacle-vr.com
www.northernlight.net

There is a hall of mirrors close to where I live, I might have a go
at photographing it soon.  :-)  Might be interesting.


Pete
www.sphereworks.co.uk


--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Mark D. Fink" <markdfink@...>
wrote:
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
> >Behalf Of AYRTON
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:16 PM
> >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Fun with mirrors
> >
> >On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Ian Wood
> ><panolists@...>wrote:
> >
> >> But where are the infinitely-reflecting mirror images of the
other
> >> mirrors? ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >Yeahhhh this would be nice :-)
> >
> >AYRTON
>
> That had crossed my mind, and I'm sure Prof. Dersch could figure
out how to
> do that, but I'm just a mere mortal. :o)
>
> Mark
> www.nyc.360cities.net
> www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
> www.pinnacle-vr.com
> www.northernlight.net
>

>-----Original Message-----
>From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of sphereworks
>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:28 PM
>To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Fun with mirrors
>
>There is a hall of mirrors close to where I live, I might have a go
>at photographing it soon.  :-)  Might be interesting.
>
>
>Pete
>www.sphereworks.co.uk
>

I see a LOT of cloning in your future... Careful it doesn't erupt into the
Clone Wars...  :o)

Mark

www.nyc.360cities.net
www.hudsonvalley.360cities.net
www.pinnacle-vr.com
www.northernlight.net

Hello All,

Here is a unfinished continuum. I can imagine it all the way mirrored
and a recursive in each...but thats a mind bender.
Let's make it an open source idea and ask Seb for help with the
recursive...(Droste). Seb?

http://360image.de/test/matt_mballs.swf

Cheers, Milko

--
Milko K.Amorth
ph:604.561.5101
fx:604.909.5125

www.VRCanada.ca
360° Immersive Imaging
Skype: VRdundee

Turn of the century Russian negatives taken with three color filters,
finally composited to color.



http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/





Sacha Griffin

Southern Digital Solutions LLC

http://www.southern-digital.com

http://www.seeit360.net

404-551-4275





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
>
> Turn of the century Russian negatives taken with three color filters,
> finally composited to color.
>
>
>
> http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/

Yes, these are very cool. I mentioned these in my interview with VRMag in 2005.

One of the areas I visited that he photographed (Suzdal) had changed so little
that I
instantly recognized many of the "views" I was shooting from his images that I
had seen
while doing research for my trip to Russia. I couldn't help but think of the
parallels
between his shooting (with such new technology) and what we as vr photographers
are
currently doing shooting areas around the world in vr, which in itself is pretty
new and
unique in its own ways. I also find it inspiring the great lengths that were
gone through in
order to capture these unique photos.

As an analogy, I often tell people to remember his images, and the fact that
they exist for
us to view today, when you are out shooting your own images in vr today and
tomorrow.
Compared to regular photographers, there really aren't very many of us doing
this at all.
The images we create now in vr are what someone else will treasure in 100 years,
regardless if it is something as grand as an historic monument or as mundane as
an
average street corner.

Hello Terry,

I tried it out today and it works. Even the MF mode is kept in C1/C2
mode on the G9.
Shame on me, i wouldn't have expected Canon to include such settings in
custom mode.

Thanks for telling!

Bernhard

> I did some gigapan shooting/testing this afternoon.
>
> The G9 settings (zoom, manual focus, aperture, shutter speed, ... )
> can be easily restored after the camera times out.
>
> After deciding on the camera settings for the pano, save them in
> "C1" (or "C2").
> When the camera times out while fiddling with the gigapan,
> restore the camera settings by powering up using the C1 (or C2) mode.
> This seemed to work well.
>
> -Terry-
>

Sacha Griffin wrote:
> Turn of the century Russian negatives taken with three color filters,
> finally composited to color.

And the fun part is that you can download the original scans of the
plates (~70MB TIFFs) and see how the pano tools we all use do at
registering the images. (Haven't tried this yet, but I'd like to) This
method also is the source of one of my favorite photographic artifacts:
"Temporal Iridescence"

I worked peripherally with the guys at Warner Brothers that did the
image registration for Singing in the Rain and a few other 3-strip
technicolor films that were remastered for DVD from the original
negatives. Even though all three frames were exposed simultaneously,
there are still registration issues as the film substrate has warped and
shifted over the years.

Maybe this is no very off-topic at all. I think, many VR images are a
documentation of a certain place or event.

Some time ago i have seen an exhibition in the Karlsplatz Museum in
Vienna with photographs from August Stauda. He was a photographer,
living at the turn of the 18th to 19th century and ahead of his time by
documenting that places in Vienna which were expected to be heavily
changed in the following decades. He not only photographed the places
but also the people living there, making his photographs to an unique
document of Vienna, the capital in the last decades of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire.
After he died, his widow donated about 3000 photographs to the town of
Vienna. These photogaphs where stocked nearly 100 years in the cellar of
the museum until they where re-discovered and put together to a large
work exhibition in 2006.
Some sample images: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:August_Stauda

Regards
Bernhard

I posted this to the wrong list, but someone was kind enough
to suggest it might be worth reposting in the right place.
So apologies to the eight of you who may have read this
before.

I have been experimenting with the two features of the D300
that most interested me from the point of view of stitching
panoramas.

The CA reduction feature, which apparently is a fully automatic
function of the on-board software with no adjustments or switches
that I have found (so far), is really quite effective. It is not
perfect, but it is almost as good as I was able to get by using
Silkypix or an earlier edition of Nikon capture software. It is
particularly effective at the shortest focal length of my 11-18
mm Tamron zoom. It is less effective with the 10.5mm Nikon
full-frame fisheye but still a significant improvement over an
untreated image on the D200 I just traded in. I look forward to
better stitches.

The so-called "D" function appears to be a setting in the shooting
menu bank, but as far as I can see the setting doesn't make any
difference at all to the shots taken. But there is also a "Retouch"
menu which allows you to select an image and choose between three
D-lighting options, low medium and high. These enhance the level
of the illumination in shadow areas, leaving highlights very little
changed. I haven't yet checked whether the subsequent "retouch"
depends on a prior selection of the shooting option.

Unfortunately, if you shoot RAW, the retouched image is saved as
as a JPEG (although admittedly at the largest size and highest
quality). Since the settings are pretty crude (just low medium
and high) I want to check how well stitching goes between two
adjacent shots that may have needed different setings.

I'm glad I had two years getting used to the D200 (my first digital
camera) before picking up this beast. The manual is hundreds of
pages long...

Roger W.

--
Work: www.adex-japan.com
Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

Well, I for one am just glad the VR is finally getting it's exposure
by the press/media... it's a good start...we still have a long way
to go... :-)


At 08:44 AM 9/2/2008, you wrote:

>--- In
><mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com,
>AYRTON <avi@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Blake Michaelson <blake.michaelson@...
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Nice shot - nice simple integration of audio - what's the
> player? - cheers,
> >
> >
> > It's their own proprietary player
>
>AFAIK, their homegrown player is built on Papervision 3D. So, not
>proprietary, really,
>but I doubt they'll be giving up their source code anytime soon. ;-)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Patrick
>
>PanoSalado:
><http://flashpanos.com/blog/79>http://flashpanos.com/blog/79
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bernhard:

np. thanks for all you do.

If you are using a manual exposure and manual focus,
pressing the exposure/jump button moves between fstop, shutter speed,
and manual focus.
The control wheel then changes the currently selected setting.
This makes it easier for me to check/change the focus and exposure.

I've enjoyed seeing your test panos.

My test panos are still coming out a bit soft looking when zoomed in
tight.
So I might try adding a bit more sharpening to the source images.
Also I've tended to overexpose the images trying to keep shadow detail
but blowing out  the highlights.
Most panos are not pretty when the sky is totally white.  :)

-Terry-



On Sep 2, 2008, at 7:35 PM, Bernhard Vogl wrote:

> Hello Terry,
>
> I tried it out today and it works. Even the MF mode is kept in C1/C2
> mode on the G9.
> Shame on me, i wouldn't have expected Canon to include such settings
> in
> custom mode.
>
> Thanks for telling!
>
> Bernhard
>
>> I did some gigapan shooting/testing this afternoon.
>>
>> The G9 settings (zoom, manual focus, aperture, shutter speed, ... )
>> can be easily restored after the camera times out.
>>
>> After deciding on the camera settings for the pano, save them in
>> "C1" (or "C2").
>> When the camera times out while fiddling with the gigapan,
>> restore the camera settings by powering up using the C1 (or C2) mode.
>> This seemed to work well.
>>
>> -Terry-
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>

>> From: Jeffrey Martin
>>
>> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/05/olympus-and-panasonic-launch-mi
>> cro-four-thirds-dslrs-enter-a-ne/
>>
>> this could be excellent. it would allow the use of nearly *any*
>> lens with an
>> adapter, i presume.....

Given that the current 4/3 cameras have one of the shortest flange
distances around due to the smaller mirror, you're absolutely right. Not
relying on through-the-lens viewing makes using an old lens in preset
mode more palatable. Put a good focus assist on this and it could get
interesting.

Paul D. DeRocco wrote:

> The whole world (judging by the people I see on the street) seems to have
> accepted the idea of a camera without a viewfinder that you look into,
> relying instead upon a small LCD on the back of the camera. This is not
> progress.

Maybe so, but it's not much of a regression. View cameras and Leica
Rangefinders come to mind. Save those hot-shoe viewfinders! ;)

> On top of that, while small cameras have one obvious advantage, they have
> two disadvantages which many non-photographers seem to be unaware of.

Agreed, though we're not moving backwards in this case, as the sensor
size remains the same as the existing 4/3 system. I immediately thought
of mounting one of these on the Gigapan Imager with some fine old Zeiss
glass.