Excellent data, very useful. Thank you for sharing with the community.

Looks like panorama and panoramas are what the public are looking for. They
don't know to look for VR or VR panorama, 360 is a ways down the list, as is
virtual tour (which I suspect is more strongly associated with real estate than
your sort of fullscreens).

So my conclusion is that we can describe what we do any way we want, but if we
want to get results from search engines we should be sure that the words
panorama and panoramas are where the spiders can find them, and associated with
the subject of the pano, i.e. the place name or event.

Would you agree with that, Hans?

Long ago, when there was less SEO, gaming, and spoofing, it was enough to just
put the key words in the metadata. Now that counts for less, and it is necessary
to have the terms you want the spider to use appear in the text on the page
also. Preferably high on the page, maybe a highlight color (like red) or large
size, or as <h1> or <h2>.

Any data or insights on that?

There are two steps in getting hits from searches. Being found and ranked high
is first. But the second step is getting the person doing the search to click
your link rather than some other listing on the results page. So the metadata
<title> and <description> fields are still important because they usually appear
in the search results, which is what people will be reading.

Which leads me to one of my favorite rants. Please, everybody, take the time to
adequately describe your subject. It doesn't have to be long, but it should be
correct and complete. What is in the picture, and where is it?  Avoid ambiguous
abbreviations, and in this day of globalized everything it is essential to
specify the country.

Don


On Feb 1, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Hans wrote:

>
>
> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Don Bain <dbain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you , Hans, I was waiting for you to report. You have by far the best
handle on this.
> >
> > Personally, I prefer "360 panoramas" to "VR panoramas", and maybe in this
post-QTVR era, we are ready for a change. I think "panorama" is essential both
because it appears in so many of our sites and because it describes one
essential aspect of what we do. The 360 helps separate us from the traditional
panoramic photographers. And both terms translate well.
> >
> > I am surprised how much the plural panoramas differs from just panorama, I
expected Google would treat them the same. Also that QTVR is still so strong.
But then, you are reporting the results of searches, not what search terms
people are likely to use.
> >
> > Which is really the core issue - we want people who are looking for our sort
of content to know how to get it in a search.
> >
> > My main concern is not people looking for VR panoramas in general, but when
they want a 360 view of a particular place - that's my geographer background.
> >
> > Have you tried some searches that combine a place featured on panoramas.dk
coupled with one of the media terms such as VR panoramas?
> >
> > I Googled "White Sands panoramas" and got my (very old) pano on panoramas.dk
first, and the relevant page on VirtualGuidebooks second, so I like that.
>
> Yes combinations of many kinds are the key to Google.
>
> Here are the results for the last 4 months top 100 search words for panorama
related keywords.
> panoramas 1.942
> panorama software 893
> panorama 729
> 360 panorama 505
> panorama 360 480
> qtvr software 434
> panoramic view 418
> 360 degree view 239
> 3d panorama 217
> panorama view 204
> 360 degree panorama 196
> 360 panoramas 184
>
> Now that was just as single keywords, here are the numbers containing some of
them in combination with places for example "White Sands panoramas"
> panorama + keyword 35,336 this is from 11,352 different combinations
> panoramas + 11780 this is from 2353 different combinations
> interactive + 541
> virtual tour + 3246
> qtvr + 2925
>
> But what really can give you traffic is if you can get up at the top 10 of
some major destination.
> I have been "on top of Mount Everest" since 2003 sometimes No 1 sometimes down
at 7-8. At New year I thought I had lost it but a week later I was up as No 2
again.
> mount everest 12.835 + mt everest 6,401 all everest combinations 40,674
> Some other top searches where I am among the top 10
> eiffel tower 3,263
> man on the moon 1000
> fastest rapper in the world 848
>
> If you do not reach the top 10 you will not get much from it.
> rio de janeiro has me as No 16 but I only had 127 hits from that.
> However combinations with Rio like corcovado rio de janeiro and 1476 others
sent me 2994 visits.
>
> same with grand canyon I am on page 7 for it but combinations like grand
canyon panoramas, grand canyon virtual tour, grand canyon horse shoe Etc. sent
me 1292 visits.
>
> Now lets go back to October 2007-Feb 2008
> panoramas 3,972
> panorama 1077
> panoramic 1028
> 360 panorama 609
> panoramic views 609
> panorama 360 409
> panorama software 344
> panorama 360
> qtvr software 98
>
> I am quit sure that I was at the top for these searches also in 2007, one
thing is that searches for panorama software has double up in 2010 to 893.
> Funny thing is qtvr+software has boosted to 434 in 2010
> But qtvr in general has dropped from 4353 to 2925
> qtvr + 4,353
> panorama + 28,887
> virtual tour + 1557
> interactive + 379
>
> Mount Everest was 23,670 maybe I was probably No 1 in the search at that time
but as I also have less on eiffel tower 5654 it may also be the recession during
the last years.
> People actually stopped searching for travelling and this has only got back
partially
>
> Hans
>
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Hans wrote:
> >
> > > This has been up so many times now and I do not understand why.
> > > In Swedish, Norwegian and Danish we have a proverb saying
> > > "Kärt barn har många namn" direct translated A beloved child has many
names.
> > >
> > > The expression in English "Success has many fathers, but failure is an
orphan" is referenced as a similar one but does not quite cover it.
> > >
> > > I think it is a great advantages that we have a lot of names for what we
do.
> > > On the internet it gives us much larger possibilities for keywords.
> > > And what you want to use to describe it for a client does not really
matter.
> > > Personally I believe 360 panorama will be understandable in all languages.
> > >
> > > If you look at the expressions that are international there is no doubt.
> > > The world panorama, panoramas is used in practically all languages.
> > >
> > > If we ad some additional description as VR panoramas, 360 panoramas it is
still international.
> > > Immersive will not be understood by many, i guess not even English spoken
> > >
> > > I have done some searches in Google.com to get the current search results
for some of the most used.
> > >
> > > These are the exact expression searches. All these gives panoramas.dk as
No 1.
> > > And it does not matter what Google you search in or if you use the exact
boolean expression or just the words.
> > > "quicktime vr panoramas" 275,000 hits
> > > "vr panoramas" 347,000
> > > panoramas 10,100,000
> > > "virtual panoramas" 19,000
> > > "virtual reality panorama" 40,300
> > > "interactive panoramas" 67,000
> > >
> > > But the singular world panorama is something else. Usually it is a news
site or name for a TV News show.
> > >
> > > It gives you 59.900.000 hits and I now managed to get up to No 5 and 6 but
there are no other 360 Panoramic sites until No 37 which is Panoguide.
> > >
> > > Combinations with 360 brings 360cities and some iTunes apps to the top
> > > "360 panorama" 161,000 pdk 3, 360-cities 4
> > > "360 panoramas" 37,300 pdk 1, 360cities 2
> > > "360 panoramic images" 358,000 pdk 3
> > >
> > > If you look at combinations with interactive you can really se the
difference (advantage for me) with several keywords.
> > > The exact expression does not give me any place at all at least among the
first 50.
> > > "interactive panoramic images" 160.000
> > > But interactive panoramic images 203,000 has panoramas.dk as No 3 and 4.
> > >
> > > What about QTVR. It still gives 286.000 hits and I dropped down to No 9.
> > >
> > > Something else is what people really are searching for.
> > > I will have a look at the current status for this in Analytics. It may
have changed since I have not checked it lately.
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> >
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

  I use "Spherical photography"... in spanish "fotografía esférica"

:-))


El 01/02/2011, a las 18:39, Hans escribió:

>
>
> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Don Bain <dbain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you , Hans, I was waiting for you to report. You have by far the best
handle on this.
> >
> > Personally, I prefer "360 panoramas" to "VR panoramas", and maybe in this
post-QTVR era, we are ready for a change. I think "panorama" is essential both
because it appears in so many of our sites and because it describes one
essential aspect of what we do. The 360 helps separate us from the traditional
panoramic photographers. And both terms translate well.
> >
> > I am surprised how much the plural panoramas differs from just panorama, I
expected Google would treat them the same. Also that QTVR is still so strong.
But then, you are reporting the results of searches, not what search terms
people are likely to use.
> >
> > Which is really the core issue - we want people who are looking for our sort
of content to know how to get it in a search.
> >
> > My main concern is not people looking for VR panoramas in general, but when
they want a 360 view of a particular place - that's my geographer background.
> >
> > Have you tried some searches that combine a place featured on panoramas.dk
coupled with one of the media terms such as VR panoramas?
> >
> > I Googled "White Sands panoramas" and got my (very old) pano on panoramas.dk
first, and the relevant page on VirtualGuidebooks second, so I like that.
>
> Yes combinations of many kinds are the key to Google.
>
> Here are the results for the last 4 months top 100 search words for panorama
related keywords.
> panoramas 1.942
> panorama software 893
> panorama 729
> 360 panorama 505
> panorama 360 480
> qtvr software 434
> panoramic view 418
> 360 degree view 239
> 3d panorama 217
> panorama view 204
> 360 degree panorama 196
> 360 panoramas 184
>
> Now that was just as single keywords, here are the numbers containing some of
them in combination with places for example "White Sands panoramas"
> panorama + keyword 35,336 this is from 11,352 different combinations
> panoramas + 11780 this is from 2353 different combinations
> interactive + 541
> virtual tour + 3246
> qtvr + 2925
>
> But what really can give you traffic is if you can get up at the top 10 of
some major destination.
> I have been "on top of Mount Everest" since 2003 sometimes No 1 sometimes down
at 7-8. At New year I thought I had lost it but a week later I was up as No 2
again.
> mount everest 12.835 + mt everest 6,401 all everest combinations 40,674
> Some other top searches where I am among the top 10
> eiffel tower 3,263
> man on the moon 1000
> fastest rapper in the world 848
>
> If you do not reach the top 10 you will not get much from it.
> rio de janeiro has me as No 16 but I only had 127 hits from that.
> However combinations with Rio like corcovado rio de janeiro and 1476 others
sent me 2994 visits.
>
> same with grand canyon I am on page 7 for it but combinations like grand
canyon panoramas, grand canyon virtual tour, grand canyon horse shoe Etc. sent
me 1292 visits.
>
> Now lets go back to October 2007-Feb 2008
> panoramas 3,972
> panorama 1077
> panoramic 1028
> 360 panorama 609
> panoramic views 609
> panorama 360 409
> panorama software 344
> panorama 360
> qtvr software 98
>
> I am quit sure that I was at the top for these searches also in 2007, one
thing is that searches for panorama software has double up in 2010 to 893.
> Funny thing is qtvr+software has boosted to 434 in 2010
> But qtvr in general has dropped from 4353 to 2925
> qtvr + 4,353
> panorama + 28,887
> virtual tour + 1557
> interactive + 379
>
> Mount Everest was 23,670 maybe I was probably No 1 in the search at that time
but as I also have less on eiffel tower 5654 it may also be the recession during
the last years.
> People actually stopped searching for travelling and this has only got back
partially
>
> Hans
>
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Hans wrote:
> >
> > > This has been up so many times now and I do not understand why.
> > > In Swedish, Norwegian and Danish we have a proverb saying
> > > "Kärt barn har många namn" direct translated A beloved child has many
names.
> > >
> > > The expression in English "Success has many fathers, but failure is an
orphan" is referenced as a similar one but does not quite cover it.
> > >
> > > I think it is a great advantages that we have a lot of names for what we
do.
> > > On the internet it gives us much larger possibilities for keywords.
> > > And what you want to use to describe it for a client does not really
matter.
> > > Personally I believe 360 panorama will be understandable in all languages.
> > >
> > > If you look at the expressions that are international there is no doubt.
> > > The world panorama, panoramas is used in practically all languages.
> > >
> > > If we ad some additional description as VR panoramas, 360 panoramas it is
still international.
> > > Immersive will not be understood by many, i guess not even English spoken
> > >
> > > I have done some searches in Google.com to get the current search results
for some of the most used.
> > >
> > > These are the exact expression searches. All these gives panoramas.dk as
No 1.
> > > And it does not matter what Google you search in or if you use the exact
boolean expression or just the words.
> > > "quicktime vr panoramas" 275,000 hits
> > > "vr panoramas" 347,000
> > > panoramas 10,100,000
> > > "virtual panoramas" 19,000
> > > "virtual reality panorama" 40,300
> > > "interactive panoramas" 67,000
> > >
> > > But the singular world panorama is something else. Usually it is a news
site or name for a TV News show.
> > >
> > > It gives you 59.900.000 hits and I now managed to get up to No 5 and 6 but
there are no other 360 Panoramic sites until No 37 which is Panoguide.
> > >
> > > Combinations with 360 brings 360cities and some iTunes apps to the top
> > > "360 panorama" 161,000 pdk 3, 360-cities 4
> > > "360 panoramas" 37,300 pdk 1, 360cities 2
> > > "360 panoramic images" 358,000 pdk 3
> > >
> > > If you look at combinations with interactive you can really se the
difference (advantage for me) with several keywords.
> > > The exact expression does not give me any place at all at least among the
first 50.
> > > "interactive panoramic images" 160.000
> > > But interactive panoramic images 203,000 has panoramas.dk as No 3 and 4.
> > >
> > > What about QTVR. It still gives 286.000 hits and I dropped down to No 9.
> > >
> > > Something else is what people really are searching for.
> > > I will have a look at the current status for this in Analytics. It may
have changed since I have not checked it lately.
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> >
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------

Ignacio Ferrando Margelí

Abaco Digital

http://www.abaco-digital.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Guys it is a common error to assume that users use x y and z search phrases to
find panoramic images based on the keyword sources, well because that is where
my traffic comes from. Unless Hans has the same position on each and every
phrase the stats don't help. I get a large amount of traffic from "those spinny
things" not because everyone uses that to describe object shots, but instead
because I come up first for it. (only an illustration not actual search result)
:)

I vote for i pix shots on acid... This brings up another point. DONT SETTLE ON
ANYTHING THAT ERRORS TO AN AUTO CORRECT I PIX CORRECTS TO IPOD ON AND IPAD

Matt Smith
Photospherix.com
360 Product photography

On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Don Bain <dbain@...> wrote:

> Thank you , Hans, I was waiting for you to report. You have by far the best
handle on this.
>
> Personally, I prefer "360 panoramas" to "VR panoramas", and maybe in this
post-QTVR era, we are ready for a change. I think "panorama" is essential both
because it appears in  so many of our sites and because it describes one
essential aspect of what we do. The 360 helps separate us from the traditional
panoramic photographers. And both terms translate well.
>
> I am surprised how much the plural panoramas differs from just panorama, I
expected Google would treat them the same. Also that QTVR is still so strong.
But then, you are reporting the results of searches, not what search terms
people are likely to use.
>
> Which is really the core issue - we want people who are looking for our sort
of content to know how to get it in a search.
>
> My main concern is not people looking for VR panoramas in general, but when
they want a 360 view of a particular place - that's my geographer background.
>
> Have you tried some searches that combine a place featured on panoramas.dk
coupled with one of the media terms such as VR panoramas?
>
> I Googled "White Sands panoramas" and got my (very old) pano on panoramas.dk
first, and the relevant page on VirtualGuidebooks second, so I like that.
>
> Don
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Hans wrote:
>
>> This has been up so many times now and I do not understand why.
>> In Swedish, Norwegian and Danish we have a proverb saying
>> "Kärt barn har många namn" direct translated A beloved child has many
names.
>>
>> The expression in English "Success has many fathers, but failure is an
orphan" is referenced as a similar one but does not quite cover it.
>>
>> I think it is a great advantages that we have a lot of names for what we do.
>> On the internet it gives us much larger possibilities for keywords.
>> And what you want to use to describe it for a client does not really matter.
>> Personally I believe 360 panorama will be understandable in all languages.
>>
>> If you look at the expressions that are international there is no doubt.
>> The world panorama, panoramas is used in practically all languages.
>>
>> If we ad some additional description as VR panoramas, 360 panoramas it is
still international.
>> Immersive will not be understood by many, i guess not even English spoken
>>
>> I have done some searches in Google.com to get the current search results for
some of the most used.
>>
>> These are the exact expression searches. All these gives panoramas.dk as No
1.
>> And it does not matter what Google you search in or if you use the exact
boolean expression or just the words.
>> "quicktime vr panoramas" 275,000 hits
>> "vr panoramas" 347,000
>> panoramas 10,100,000
>> "virtual panoramas" 19,000
>> "virtual reality panorama" 40,300
>> "interactive panoramas" 67,000
>>
>> But the singular world panorama is something else. Usually it is a news site
or name for a TV News show.
>>
>> It gives you 59.900.000 hits and I now managed to get up to No 5 and 6 but
there are no other 360 Panoramic sites until No 37 which is Panoguide.
>>
>> Combinations with 360 brings 360cities and some iTunes apps to the top
>> "360 panorama" 161,000 pdk 3, 360-cities 4
>> "360 panoramas" 37,300 pdk 1, 360cities 2
>> "360 panoramic images" 358,000 pdk 3
>>
>> If you look at combinations with interactive you can really se the difference
(advantage for me) with several keywords.
>> The exact expression does not give me any place at all at least among the
first 50.
>> "interactive panoramic images" 160.000
>> But interactive panoramic images 203,000 has panoramas.dk as No 3 and 4.
>>
>> What about QTVR. It still gives 286.000 hits and I dropped down to No 9.
>>
>> Something else is what people really are searching for.
>> I will have a look at the current status for this in Analytics. It may have
changed since I have not checked it lately.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>

How about interactive panorama 360 and ip360 for short



Matt Smith
Photospherix.com
360 Product photography

On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:

> PÃ¥ Tue, 01 Feb 2011 07:56:54 +0100, skrev Bostjan Burger
<si_lander@...>:
>
>> My goal to shot VRPs is to use them as an e-learning tool. From that point of
>> view I needed to use Slovene as a prime language. When I started with VRPs I
>> couldn't imagine how I can use a term 'panorama' of a cave or interior as a
>> small room. I liked the Immersive image more, so I started to think what name
>> would be fine in Slovenian language. Technically the base for a Virtual
Reality
>> Panorama is a 360° panorama which is a flat 2D image. After the conversion
into
>> the display on a screen we get the feeling of the space and mental projection
of
>> the 3D image. But it is still only a 2D which tricks our mental projection as
>> that we are in the middle of the space which visual information is projected
>> from our nodal point (or no parallax point).
>> I started with the name »Prostorska slika« which means »spatial image«.
It
>> sounds strange? Right? I shot quite a number of object VRs (OVRs) ten years
ago
>> and had a dilemma how to name that, so I was more precise with the term:
'360°
>> spatial image' and 'object spatial image'. Both terms are translated directly
>> from Slovene to English just to get the idea. In English I use Virtual
Reality
>> Panorama (VRP) and Object Virtual Reality (OVP). I used that terms in a dozen
of
>> international geography symposiums and nobody argued against that terms…
and
>> believe me that geographers can be very critical with the terms. However I am
>> not a photographer and don't consider a VRPs as a photography but more part
of
>> GIS when georeferenced. The camera is only a tool to me as it is a GPS which
is
>> a must have when shooting a VRP.
>> The Slovenian term »Prostorska slika« is used as a standard since the late
>> 90-ies and I have noticed that is used also in some neighbor countries… at
least
>> among geographers.
>> I would suggest, as Don proposed, the one worldwide term but not necessarily
in
>> English.
>> What is a French term for a Virtual Reality Panorama? …or as example
German?
>> Most of VR technology and the support are coming from Europe... what
something
>> like Esperanto...latin? What about the largest world languages - Indian or
>> Chinese (now I am prvoking ;) )
>
> I like the "Immersive image" (or panorama) a lot, but the problem is that I
would
> need to translate it to Norwegian, which is not easily done. I even contacted
the
> Norwegian language council (Språkrådet) a few years ago to see if thy could
come up
> with a good translation. Unfortunately none of their suggestions were any
good.
> Virtual Reality would be "Virtuell Virkelighet" in Norwegian, which isn't
quite the same.
> The English term is used more often here than the Norwegian variant.
> "Interactive panorama" is a fairly international/universal term I guess, and
it
> describes the "product" quite well, as opposed to "normal" static panoramas?
But as
> opposed to VR the short form IP would not be useable.
> I currently mostly use "interactive panorama" or "interactive 360-panorama",
and
> "interactive VR tour" for tours or "interactive net exhibition" for
interactive panorama
> ehibitions with lots of interactivity/hotspots. And "spherical panoramas"
> (kule-panorama in Norwegian)
> It would really be nice with an "official" international term :)
> So far my vote goes to "interactive panorama".
>
> --
> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>

That just sounds like we piss in circles!

Sorry That can't be it, its almost as back as my panography.

To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
From: masmith@...
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 15:36:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Future of VR Panoramas - WAS: Apple dropped QTVR
> VRP




























       How about interactive panorama 360 and ip360 for short



Matt Smith

Photospherix.com

360 Product photography



On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:



> På Tue, 01 Feb 2011 07:56:54 +0100, skrev Bostjan Burger
<si_lander@...>:

>

>> My goal to shot VRPs is to use them as an e-learning tool. From that point of

>> view I needed to use Slovene as a prime language. When I started with VRPs I

>> couldn't imagine how I can use a term 'panorama' of a cave or interior as a

>> small room. I liked the Immersive image more, so I started to think what name

>> would be fine in Slovenian language. Technically the base for a Virtual
Reality

>> Panorama is a 360° panorama which is a flat 2D image. After the conversion
into

>> the display on a screen we get the feeling of the space and mental projection
of

>> the 3D image. But it is still only a 2D which tricks our mental projection as

>> that we are in the middle of the space which visual information is projected

>> from our nodal point (or no parallax point).

>> I started with the name »Prostorska slika« which means »spatial image«. It

>> sounds strange? Right? I shot quite a number of object VRs (OVRs) ten years
ago

>> and had a dilemma how to name that, so I was more precise with the term:
'360°

>> spatial image' and 'object spatial image'. Both terms are translated directly

>> from Slovene to English just to get the idea. In English I use Virtual
Reality

>> Panorama (VRP) and Object Virtual Reality (OVP). I used that terms in a dozen
of

>> international geography symposiums and nobody argued against that terms… and

>> believe me that geographers can be very critical with the terms. However I am

>> not a photographer and don't consider a VRPs as a photography but more part
of

>> GIS when georeferenced. The camera is only a tool to me as it is a GPS which
is

>> a must have when shooting a VRP.

>> The Slovenian term »Prostorska slika« is used as a standard since the late

>> 90-ies and I have noticed that is used also in some neighbor countries… at
least

>> among geographers.

>> I would suggest, as Don proposed, the one worldwide term but not necessarily
in

>> English.

>> What is a French term for a Virtual Reality Panorama? …or as example German?

>> Most of VR technology and the support are coming from Europe... what
something

>> like Esperanto...latin? What about the largest world languages - Indian or

>> Chinese (now I am prvoking ;) )

>

> I like the "Immersive image" (or panorama) a lot, but the problem is that I
would

> need to translate it to Norwegian, which is not easily done. I even contacted
the

> Norwegian language council (Språkrådet) a few years ago to see if thy could
come up

> with a good translation. Unfortunately none of their suggestions were any
good.

> Virtual Reality would be "Virtuell Virkelighet" in Norwegian, which isn't
quite the same.

> The English term is used more often here than the Norwegian variant.

> "Interactive panorama" is a fairly international/universal term I guess, and
it

> describes the "product" quite well, as opposed to "normal" static panoramas?
But as

> opposed to VR the short form IP would not be useable.

> I currently mostly use "interactive panorama" or "interactive 360-panorama",
and

> "interactive VR tour" for tours or "interactive net exhibition" for
interactive panorama

> ehibitions with lots of interactivity/hotspots. And "spherical panoramas"

> (kule-panorama in Norwegian)

> It would really be nice with an "official" international term :)

> So far my vote goes to "interactive panorama".

>

> --

> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas.

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> --

>

>

>
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 1, 2011, at 6:14 AM, ahoeben41 wrote:

> Be prepared to be depressed (about the lack of quality of the panoramic work).
> http://www.googleartproject.com/
>
> It looks like they sent a single photographer to all these museums who did not
know how to change exposure or whitebalance settings in the camera.
>
> If there is ever a reason for good photography, it is when doing photos
showing the works of masters. I can't imagine the museums are happy with this
representation of their collections.


I think Bette Davis said it better than I ever could:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3zShjyaTr8#t=20s

Yuck.

John

John Riley
4Pi-VR Media Solutions
http://4pi-vr.com
johnriley@...
(h)864-461-3504
(c)864-431-7075
(w)864-503-5775



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Yazan Sboul wrote:
>
> That just sounds like we piss in circles!
>
> Sorry That can't be it, its almost as back as my panography.

LOL!!!

I've been using "Surround Photography" since 2006, but maybe that's not
something a native speaker of English would do.
Seemed like a logical name to me though, still does : )

Cheers!

Erik Leeman

(<http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>)

While i feel honored that many people use the "PTGui Speedtest" files to
assess their hardware configuration, i was rightly criticized that it
doesn't fit everyday needs to stitch fisheye images. So i thought it
could be a good idea to provide an additional test set:

The following set consists of 14*5 images (bracketed) with a 16mm
fisheye - resulting in a 14000*7000 panorama:
http://hdview.at/speedtest/speedtest_fisheye.zip

Usage instructions:
Download ZIP file (30mb) and unpack in any folder.
Windows users can simply start the provided "_runme_ptgui.cmd" file. It
will start the job and print the timing information.
Mac users will need to run the .pts file and a stopwatch, but i would be
happy if someone could provide me with something that has the same
functionality.

A word of warning:
The test is 99% bound to your CPU and RAM resources and takes approx. 15
minutes on a decent machine. If you are low on RAM, it may take much,
much longer! (on my computer PTGui took up to 12GB of RAM during the test).

I would love to get some feedback about usefulnes and potential
improvements of this test!

Best regards
Bernhard

For single camera (off-axis l/r slice assembly) stereo pano sweep capture Sony
now has a rival -- Morpho, Inc (shades of the Matrix)
http://www.morphoinc.com/en/products/Panorama3D.html


--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
>
> Here is an example of a couple of the stereo distortions I was thinking of:
> http://www.mediavr.com/verticaldisparity1.jpg
>
> You see the vertical separation of non-central features is extreme. It should
be zero. Notice also the much exaggerated horizontal disparity in that part of
the picture. This is too extreme to resolve so effectively the lateral periphery
of all stereo panoramas viewed the usually warped ways  are too separated to
view. This is regardless of whether you use anaglyph, interlaced etc viewing
methods. If the panorama is unwarped (ie. not rendered as a steerable view), eg.
anaglyph equirectangular then these distortions do not exist but of course the
view is unrealistic in other ways.
>
> The Abstract linked to the item on "Acquisition of stereo panoramas for
display in VR environments" on
>
>
http://spie.org//app/program/index.cfm?fuseaction=conferencedetail&export_id=x16\
280&ID=x16223&redir=x16223.xml&conference_id=927621&event_id=925953&programtrack\
_id=931449
>
> seems to say they have worked out a solution for this.
>
> Here is another street panorama
> http://www.mediavr.com/thana1bana.htm
> .. on a pole at about 4m with twin5d/10.5mm 50 shots in 12 sec at about 20cm
separation (jpg because the camera cant do a fast 50 shot burst in Raw). To the
left of the stairs there is a stitch error which I couldnt fix (the pole moved
around too much I think) .. in 2d it would be fixable but that kind of stitching
fixing is much harder to do perfectly in stereo sometimes.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Feb 1, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Matt Smith wrote:

> How about interactive panorama 360 and ip360 for short

I don't know if you are serious or not, but the LAST thing we need is new
made-up words to describe what we do. Unless we have a 600-pound gorilla to
force it on the public for us.

I would look for 2.5" Enterprise drives, better made and I saw some
had issolation so they would not have vibration interaction problems.

On Feb 1, 2011, at 9:45 AM, Mark D. Fink wrote:

> I'd say capacity was one factor. The biggest notebook drives I see
> at NewEgg
> are 1TB. Four of these in a RAID5 environment would effectively give
> you 3TB
> of storage, if I'm counting correctly on my fingers.
>
> Speed is another factor. The ones I saw were all 5200RPM vs. 7200RPM
> for
> similarly priced 3.5" drives. However, four 5200 drives in RAID5
> would be
> faster than one 3TB 7200 drive, although more expensive overall.
>
> It's an interesting idea, especially since you have the space
> already. Maybe
> this would be a perfect scratch drive for Photoshop and stitching?
>
> Mark
>
> www.northernlight.net
> www.virtual-travels.com
> www.pinnacle-vr.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> ] On
> > Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:17 AM
> > To: panotoolsng
> > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] 2.5 or 3.5 hard disk?
> >
> > I've finally built my new pc. oh yeah :)
> >
> > there is a spare 5.25" bay (i'll resign myself to the fact that a
> dvd
> > drive
> > will still be necessary for a couple more years - if nothing else
> than to
> > copy DVD's we get as gifts)
> >
> > now, is there any reason not to stick 4 notebook hard disks into
> one of
> > these and put it in the spare 5.25 bay?
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816119012
> >
> > is there any huge advantage of 3.5" hard disks over 2.5" hard
> disks? in my
> > case, 4x 3.5" disks simply won't fit in my box.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Jeffrey
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Cheers
Robert C. Fisher
VR Photography / Cinematography
bob@...
http://www.rcfisher.com
Facebook - Robert C. Fisher






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 07:51:27 +0900, panovrx <panovrx@...> wrote:

> For single camera (off-axis l/r slice assembly) stereo pano sweep
> capture Sony now has a rival -- Morpho, Inc (shades of the Matrix)
> http://www.morphoinc.com/en/products/Panorama3D.html

Thanks, Peter. Their work is most impressive. I must admit my first
reaction on discovering that they were based in Tokyo, within easy
reach from our condo, was that they might have need of my
translation skills! It would be fun to work on such leading-edge
technology.

Roger W.

--
Work: www.adex-japan.com

Hilarious story.

I'm actually using the word panographer in my book, just like that. Passed all
the strictest copy editors.


On Jan 31, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Yazan Sboul wrote:

> The only problem with panograph is that it makes us all panographers, and I
learn the very funny way, that a spell checker will usually correct that to
pornographer. (don't auto correct your emails to clients if you are declaring
yourself a panographer enquiring about their interest in panography for their
hotel... they don't see the funny side)

Very good, Ignacio. I was reading this whole thread right now and I was
amazed with how long it took for the word "spherical" to appear. I think
"sphere" is a good, unambiguous concept.

Imediately the "spherical photography" will become "spherical photo" and
with luck just a "spherical" in the future.

"check out the sphericals at their website!"

Em 01/02/2011 15:55, Ignacio Ferrando Margelí escreveu:
> Hello,
>
>   I use "Spherical photography"... in spanish "fotografía esférica"
>
> :-))
>
>
> El 01/02/2011, a las 18:39, Hans escribió:
>

Erik,

what is the exact Dutch term of "Surround Photography" ?

Bostjan



________________________________
From: erik_leeman <erik.leeman@...>
To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:23:15 PM
Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Future of VR Panoramas - WAS: Apple dropped QTVR >
VRP




--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Yazan Sboul wrote:
>
> That just sounds like we piss in circles!
>
> Sorry That can't be it, its almost as back as my panography.

LOL!!!

I've been using "Surround Photography" since 2006, but maybe that's not
something a native speaker of English would do.
Seemed like a logical name to me though, still does : )

Cheers!

Erik Leeman

(<http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have used test on my laptops which seems to be very slow comparing to your PC:

Batch Stitcher started on BOSTJANSTUDIO at  6:24:59,65
and ended at  7:18:08,11

that is : ~ 54 minutes (

Batch Stitcher started on BOSTJANQOS at  6:28:38,35
and ended at  7:21:12,34

that is ~ 53 minutes

Both laptops with i7, Q720, 1.60 GHz, 8 GB DDR3, HDD 7200 rpm, Win7-64 bit

Bostjan

Hello Bostjan,

Thanks for running the test! Your results sould well be within the
expected values if the working set doesn't fit in your computer's memory
and PTGui has to swap out memory.
I admit, this is my intention to keep even the strongest machines busy
for some minutes  ;-)

On blow screenshot from a 16GB machine, you can see that memory
consumption during stitch is well above 8GB. During blend, it will even
eat up all available memory. With 8GB RAM you may set the output
resolution from 14000x7000 to 8000x4000 an the stitch should finish in
much, much shorter time...
http://hdview.at/speedtest/load.jpg

Best regards
Bernhard

Am 02.02.2011 07:29, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
> I have used test on my laptops which seems to be very slow comparing to your
PC:
>
> Batch Stitcher started on BOSTJANSTUDIO at  6:24:59,65
> and ended at  7:18:08,11
>
> that is : ~ 54 minutes (
>
> Batch Stitcher started on BOSTJANQOS at  6:28:38,35
> and ended at  7:21:12,34
>
> that is ~ 53 minutes
>
> Both laptops with i7, Q720, 1.60 GHz, 8 GB DDR3, HDD 7200 rpm, Win7-64 bit
>
> Bostjan
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>

Hi Bernhard.  Here are my results:

====================================================
Batch Stitcher started on NOLAN-XEON at 21:37:10.29
and ended at 21:53:23.47
====================================================

So, a little over 16 minutes.  This is on a dual quad Xeon 2.27Mhz with 24GB RAM
and an esata SSD RAID array for files and scratch.  My RAM peaked at about 17GB
during blend, never used more than 50% cpu.  So I guess the bottleneck was drive
speed (?), which is about as fast as they come.  Perhaps Windows was using a
pagefile on a slower disk, not sure, but presumably not since I had plenty of
ram left.

A while ago I remember Helmut saying he was developing a less disk intensive
stitch/blender, but I havent been following closely lately, has that worked out?

-Matt



--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bernhard Vogl <bvogl@...> wrote:
>
> While i feel honored that many people use the "PTGui Speedtest" files to
> assess their hardware configuration, i was rightly criticized that it
> doesn't fit everyday needs to stitch fisheye images. So i thought it
> could be a good idea to provide an additional test set:
>
> The following set consists of 14*5 images (bracketed) with a 16mm
> fisheye - resulting in a 14000*7000 panorama:
> http://hdview.at/speedtest/speedtest_fisheye.zip
>
> Usage instructions:
> Download ZIP file (30mb) and unpack in any folder.
> Windows users can simply start the provided "_runme_ptgui.cmd" file. It
> will start the job and print the timing information.
> Mac users will need to run the .pts file and a stopwatch, but i would be
> happy if someone could provide me with something that has the same
> functionality.
>
> A word of warning:
> The test is 99% bound to your CPU and RAM resources and takes approx. 15
> minutes on a decent machine. If you are low on RAM, it may take much,
> much longer! (on my computer PTGui took up to 12GB of RAM during the test).
>
> I would love to get some feedback about usefulnes and potential
> improvements of this test!
>
> Best regards
> Bernhard
>

--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger wrote:
>
> Erik,
>
> what is the exact Dutch term of "Surround Photography" ?
>
> Bostjan

Hi Borstjan,

For decades the good people from Dolby Labs have been bombarding the world
population with their 'Surround Sound', and although there must be *some* people
who still don't know what 'Surround' means, there can't be many of them. Not in
the Netherlands at least.
'Photography' really doesn't need translation, but in Dutch 'Fotografie' would
do nicely.

Sound recorded from all directions around the listener, an image captured from
all directions around the viewer, the analogy is so obvious I think no one needs
any further explanation.

Erik Leeman

(<http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>)

I was asing because the "Surround Sound" means in Slovene language "Prostorski
zvok". And I use "Prostorska slika" for a Virtual Reality Panorama. I translated
Prostorska slika to Spatial Image but seems that correct translation would be
Surround Image (or photography, I use image because we can do VRPs also from
other images like DMRs and not only photos). The term panorama is with deep root
and I use it in english too,  but as I mentioned before is not logical to use
(geographical) term panorama in a cave, tunnel, house room... panorama can be
also a single photo of the country side or vedute of the town (that where
Panoramio name came from). Not all Virtual Reality Panoramas are with 360° turn
and neiter all spherical. My criteria what is a Surround Image is that it needs
a projection, that is the mathematical alghoritm which converts flat 2D panorama
( which can be as an example with the xy° to 360° view) to the illusion of
reality image around us.

:) Bostjan



________________________________
From: erik_leeman <erik.leeman@...>
To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 8:29:57 AM
Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Future of VR Panoramas - WAS: Apple dropped QTVR >
VRP


--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger wrote:
>
> Erik,
>
> what is the exact Dutch term of "Surround Photography" ?
>
> Bostjan

Hi Borstjan,

For decades the good people from Dolby Labs have been bombarding the world
population with their 'Surround Sound', and although there must be *some* people
who still don't know what 'Surround' means, there can't be many of them. Not in
the Netherlands at least.
'Photography' really doesn't need translation, but in Dutch 'Fotografie' would
do nicely.

Sound recorded from all directions around the listener, an image captured from
all directions around the viewer, the analogy is so obvious I think no one needs
any further explanation.

Erik Leeman

(<http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

enridp wrote:
> ... if we are shooting far objects, like a landscape, could we shoot only
> the common 4 images (for sigma8mm) for example?...

Hello Enrique,

For a 3D pano with no objects closeby and only far away objects you have to
seperate the camera lenses wider to get more parallax otherwise there is no
depth in the 3D view.

So instead of 9 cm, 25, 50 cm or even more lens seperation, depending on the
distance to far away objects, can be needed.
With such extreme lens seperations (hyper stereo) the NPP off set is really,
really huge and with just 4 images around it will cause huge stitch errors
in each of the left and right pano.
To tackle this probem you really have to shoot a lot more then 4 images.

In general; the more images you shoot the smaller the stitch errors will be,
this is because the total amount of parallax error wil be evenly spread over
all images. The number of images that are needed depends on the amount of
stitching errors that *you* find acceptable......

Wim
--
View this message in context:
http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Stereo-distortions-in-stereo-panoramas-t\
p3246722p3253601.html
Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

The panoramic images were taken with Ladybug3. I saw an image of the LB3 camera
in the news in Spanish TV.

regards!
fiero



--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ahoeben41" <aldo@...> wrote:
>
> Be prepared to be depressed (about the lack of quality of the panoramic work).
> http://www.googleartproject.com/
>
> It looks like they sent a single photographer to all these museums who did not
know how to change exposure or whitebalance settings in the camera.
>
> If there is ever a reason for good photography, it is when doing photos
showing the works of masters. I can't imagine the museums are happy with this
representation of their collections.
>

I've created a bit of javascript glue to allow the iPhone4/iPod Touch 4g/iPad2
gyroscope to control the krpano "html5" viewer.

demo:
http://fieldofview.com/panoramas/winter-pictura
(or any other panorama on http://fieldofview.com/panoramas)

src/download:
https://github.com/fieldOfView/krpano_gyro

The script uses devicemotion events to control the panorama, but this can be
overridden with normal touch control. When you release the panorama, viewing
reverts back to devicemotion control.

More on the use of the plugin and its current limitations here:
http://krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4338

Aldo
http://fieldofview.com

Hello Matt,

Thanks for the results! Your 50% CPU load is an unexpected result _if_ you talk
about real CPU cores and not hyperthreading. IF you have hyperthreading enabled,
you will never be able to go above 50% (lenghty to explain, tell me if i
should).
With your RAM configuration there is certainly no disk bottleneck.

Still - with 8 cores and 24GB i would expect a shorter stitching time, certainly
something you may have a closer look  ;-)
Pls. feel free to contact me off list if you want to investigate that in detail
with me...  :-)

Best regards
Bernhard

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 07:22:40 -0000
> Von: "matt_nolan_uaf" <web@...>
> An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Speedtest for Fisheye Images

> Hi Bernhard.  Here are my results:
>
> ====================================================
> Batch Stitcher started on NOLAN-XEON at 21:37:10.29
> and ended at 21:53:23.47
> ====================================================
>
> So, a little over 16 minutes.  This is on a dual quad Xeon 2.27Mhz with
> 24GB RAM and an esata SSD RAID array for files and scratch.  My RAM peaked at
> about 17GB during blend, never used more than 50% cpu.  So I guess the
> bottleneck was drive speed (?), which is about as fast as they come.  Perhaps
> Windows was using a pagefile on a slower disk, not sure, but presumably not
> since I had plenty of ram left.
>
> A while ago I remember Helmut saying he was developing a less disk
> intensive stitch/blender, but I havent been following closely lately, has that
> worked out?
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bernhard Vogl <bvogl@...> wrote:
> >
> > While i feel honored that many people use the "PTGui Speedtest" files to
> > assess their hardware configuration, i was rightly criticized that it
> > doesn't fit everyday needs to stitch fisheye images. So i thought it
> > could be a good idea to provide an additional test set:
> >
> > The following set consists of 14*5 images (bracketed) with a 16mm
> > fisheye - resulting in a 14000*7000 panorama:
> > http://hdview.at/speedtest/speedtest_fisheye.zip
> >
> > Usage instructions:
> > Download ZIP file (30mb) and unpack in any folder.
> > Windows users can simply start the provided "_runme_ptgui.cmd" file. It
> > will start the job and print the timing information.
> > Mac users will need to run the .pts file and a stopwatch, but i would be
> > happy if someone could provide me with something that has the same
> > functionality.
> >
> > A word of warning:
> > The test is 99% bound to your CPU and RAM resources and takes approx. 15
> > minutes on a decent machine. If you are low on RAM, it may take much,
> > much longer! (on my computer PTGui took up to 12GB of RAM during the
> test).
> >
> > I would love to get some feedback about usefulnes and potential
> > improvements of this test!
> >
> > Best regards
> > Bernhard
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
>
>
>

> The panoramic images were taken with Ladybug3. I saw an image of
> the LB3 camera in the news in Spanish TV.

Yes, you can clearly see the Ladybug3 setup towards the end of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEXoIkpitSs
Question remains: what happened to the images? Operator incompetence? Are
Ladybugs really that hard to work with?

Yes, I agree,

now there is a problem to the professionals like me that can't offer all these
work for free, like Google...

will be able to do a good panorama of a museum and link to the google artwork
photos??

maybe I can try to sell that I can do the panos better but nobody will pay to
repeat these artworks....






El 01/02/2011, a las 13:57, aaronmspence escribió:

> The actual artwork photography is Ok, you can see they've gone to a lot of
trouble do to it well in the 'behind the scenes' video here:
http://www.googleartproject.com/c/faq
>
> But shoehorning StreetView into the mix is woeful. They needed to completely
rethink streetview tech for working inside small areas at high quality. Both
items Streetview was not designed for, and does very poorly at.
>
> Aaron Spence.
>
> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ahoeben41" <aldo@...> wrote:
> >
> > Be prepared to be depressed (about the lack of quality of the panoramic
work).
> > http://www.googleartproject.com/
> >
> > It looks like they sent a single photographer to all these museums who did
not know how to change exposure or whitebalance settings in the camera.
> >
> > If there is ever a reason for good photography, it is when doing photos
showing the works of masters. I can't imagine the museums are happy with this
representation of their collections.
> >
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------

Ignacio Ferrando Margelí

Abaco Digital

http://www.abaco-digital.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ken Warner wrote:
> Have you ever used a monopod?

No.

    BugBear

Ken Warner wrote:
> Have you ever used a monopod?

To expand; "no", and you've mentioned tripods repeatedly in this thread,
and this is your first mention of monopod.

      BugBear

thanks Bernhard,

i will give it a try as soon as i get home. it will be interesting to see
how this one differes from the other test.

i am sorry to hear people have been complaining about the test - after all
they just give you an indication of how your current computer fares. and
then one can compare it to others if you are not happy with the result and
see what it takes to go faster, then plan your next computer with similar
specs.

I think that this is a very helpful tool, in the decision process of both
how the hard and software fares in a given combination. this also helps the
developers I would think.

thanks

Henrik
--
View this message in context:
http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/PTGui-Speedtest-for-Fisheye-Images-tp325\
3089p3253794.html
Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

get fast cpus, gpus, storage and plenty of ram

storage will be your bottleneck

Henrik

ps: i dont look at attachment, so write it here
--
View this message in context:
http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/builing-new-pc-OT-tp3246365p3253829.html
Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.