I have just recently subscribed to this magazine and really like it.  It has a
good variety of articles and advertising.  You might want to check it out online
and consider a subscription.  (No, I don't get any kickbacks from referring new
subscribers! ; )   )

http://www.smallfarmtoday.com/


Kathleen Benckendorf
kmbenckendorf@...
Where He guides, God provides


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How much do feeder pigs run?  I'm in the midwest, looking for just a few
feeder pigs (4-6) to raise for my family and to help seal a leaky pond.
Someone has an ad in the paper asking for $59 ea for 50 lb feeder pigs if he
sells all 85 head, more if he sells a small number of them.  Is this a
reasonable price?  (Or does anyone live near enough to St. Louis to sell me
a few?)

Thanks.


Kathleen Benckendorf
kmbenckendorf@...
Where He guides, God provides

OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:

Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of farrowing
hut).
..How are you clipping teeth?
..And what is the sow doing during this operation?

any short cuts?

I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going in there to
clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry,

Here's a reply from Australia. We farrow our sows out in the open with only
a shade shelter over them, no walls just four posts. In our climate, huts
would be too hot for most of the year.  In winter we get some frosts at
night but the days mostly sunny. Haven't you heard what is said about
Queensland's weather "Beautiful one day, perfect the next"

So we don't clip teeth or tails nor do we castrate. The sows haven't shown
any signs of bitten teats or bites on littermates faces, so why bother. I
just can't run fast enough!

(I did read in a technical report once that the only reason teeth clipping
started was possible lacerations on the piglets faces from more aggressive
littermates.)


Regards,
Sandra Davern

-----Original Message-----
From: JADDarnall@... <JADDarnall@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, 5 May 2001 1:10
Subject: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


>OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:
>
>Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of farrowing
>hut).
>..How are you clipping teeth?
>..And what is the sow doing during this operation?
>
>any short cuts?
>
>I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going in there
to
>clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.
>
>Jerry Darnall
>JADDarnall@...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hello, my name is Chase Hubbard and I co-manage a 275 acre crop-livestock farm
for Warren Wilson College in Swannanoa, NC.  Hogs have been here on the farm for
over a century and in the fifties we built confinement facilities.  We farrow in
the house in 8 x 10 pens without the use of crates.  We sell mostly weaned pigs
(5 wks) for $40 each and this time of year and we cannot meet demand and have a
waiting list a mile long.  People wait 6-8 weeks for our pigs  because no one
else really produces in our area and ours are healthy.  Our most lucrative and
growing market, however, is selling antibiotic/hormone free pork to customers by
the quarter and half for 3.50/lb.  We also sell sausage and finish 25 steers per
year for the same market.

We finish our hogs for the niche market in a 3/4 acre outdoor lot on a 
farm-grown and mixed ration with purchased soy.  I'm considering pasture
farrowing twice per year in addition to our normal operation.  The two most
compelling reasons for this are:

1) To increase our capacity for producing weaned pigs for the spring/early
summer market(house at capacity can't meet needs)

2) To demonstrate another management system for our pre-vet/farm crew students

Other than that, there are not any other  practical reasons so if anyone has any
to add, I'd love to hear your perspective.

More than anything, I'd like to hear from others about their transition
experiences.  What crops do you finish pigs on with success?  How do you water? 
Do you have temporary water and  fence systems similar to what we use for cattle
that work well?  What genetics do you use?  Should we raise a batch of gilts
specifically for this system?  We have 3-way Duroc/Hamp/Yorks and all crosses
in-between.  How tight can you get your farrowing groups and how do you breed? 
What time of year do you farrow outdoors?  What is the source for the huts, or
is there a better structure?

And I'll watch for response to Jerry Darnall's message regarding the routine
procedures.

Lots of questions.....just respond to whatever you've got time for.

Thanks for listening,

Chase Hubbard
farm@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

why do you have to clip their teeth?  I've never clipped teeth on pasture
nor did my dad or his dad before him.  I would conservatively estimate that
at about 25,000 pigs farrowed on pasture and no problems with leaving the
teeth in them.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: JADDarnall@... <JADDarnall@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:10 AM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


>OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:
>
>Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of farrowing
>hut).
>..How are you clipping teeth?
>..And what is the sow doing during this operation?
>
>any short cuts?
>
>I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going in there
to
>clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.
>
>Jerry Darnall
>JADDarnall@...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I gave you my opinion on your questions after each one below.  You can take
a look at our farm on the internet at www.grassfarmer.com/gunthorp.htm   It
gives you a pretty good overview of how our operation was several years ago.
We have made some changes since going to exclusive direct marketing but the
management steps to keep pigs alive on pasture don't change.  One thing you
will find is that pigs are extremely resiliant creatures.  They are a lot
tougher on pasture than something like a chicken.  Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chase Hubbard <farmpow@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 7:35 AM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] transition to pasture farrowing/finishing


>Hello, my name is Chase Hubbard and I co-manage a 275 acre crop-livestock
farm for Warren Wilson College in Swannanoa, NC.  Hogs have been here on the
farm for over a century and in the fifties we built confinement facilities.
We farrow in the house in 8 x 10 pens without the use of crates.  We sell
mostly weaned pigs (5 wks) for $40 each and this time of year and we cannot
meet demand and have a waiting list a mile long.  People wait 6-8 weeks for
our pigs  because no one else really produces in our area and ours are
healthy.  Our most lucrative and growing market, however, is selling
antibiotic/hormone free pork to customers by the quarter and half for
3.50/lb.  We also sell sausage and finish 25 steers per year for the same
market.
>
>We finish our hogs for the niche market in a 3/4 acre outdoor lot on a
farm-grown and mixed ration with purchased soy.  I'm considering pasture
farrowing twice per year in addition to our normal operation.  The two most
compelling reasons for this are:
>
>1) To increase our capacity for producing weaned pigs for the spring/early
summer market(house at capacity can't meet needs)
>
>2) To demonstrate another management system for our pre-vet/farm crew
students
>
>Other than that, there are not any other  practical reasons so if anyone
has any to add, I'd love to hear your perspective.

How about cheaper costs?  Teaching more animal husbandry skills?

>
>More than anything, I'd like to hear from others about their transition
experiences.  What crops do you finish pigs on with success?
Pigs love to harvest corn.  Most legumes work great for pasture.  I use
mainly alfalfa, clover, and brasicas.

   How do you water?  Combination of buried permanent black plastic and
temporary on top of the ground.

   Do you have temporary water and  fence systems similar to what we use for
cattle that work well?  Yes

  What genetics do you use?  Primarily colored breeds Should we raise a batch
of gilts specifically for this system? yes, finish them outside and cull
them hard!  Keep pigs only out of your best sows.  Pigs are prolific enough
that there is absolutely no reason to keep any that cause you problems
especially when you have a sausage market!!!! We have 3-way Duroc/Hamp/Yorks
and all crosses in-between.  How tight can you get your farrowing groups and
how do you breed?  I've found that boars do a very good job of determining
when sows are in heat.  :)  Farrowing interval is just a matter of having
more pens to farrow in.    What time of year do you farrow outdoors?  year
round in North East Indiana.  Very rarely do we get much colder than 20
below F.  What is the source for the huts, or is there a better structure?
I like stackable steel huts especially since I can pick them up used for $10
or less.

Good luck.
>
>And I'll watch for response to Jerry Darnall's message regarding the
routine procedures.
>
>Lots of questions.....just respond to whatever you've got time for.
>
>Thanks for listening,
>
>Chase Hubbard
>farm@...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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>
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>  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

In a message dated 5/5/01 12:02:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hey4hogs@... writes:

<< why do you have to clip their teeth?  I've never clipped teeth on pasture
  nor did my dad or his dad before him.  I would conservatively estimate that
  at about 25,000 pigs farrowed on pasture and no problems with leaving the
  teeth in them.
  Greg >>

I'd "heard" the chances of "greasy pig" (staph) infections go up drastically
when the teeth aren't clipped...any experiences with this???

What about the sow's discomfort?

I'd like to wean at about 35 days...I know some wean earlier, but this seems
to be when the sow is also "ready" to wean also plus the pigs seem to do
better...Any comments?

Thanks,

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...

The only time I've ever seen greasy pig was when I tried farrowing a couple
of sows shut inside a hut in a barn in the middle of winter.  Little pigs
will tear their littermates faces up if they don't have anything better to
do.  On pasture they have something better to do.  I'm sure if you wanted
you could clip teeth, tails, give the little pigs shots at 1, 4, 7, 12 1/2,
and 14 days, wean them at 15 days, shut them up in individual paddocks to
farrow,  build a hot nursery for the little pigs, end up deciding that while
you are at it you might as well have a few crates also.   :) Please excuse
my sarcasm.  Pasture farrowing is supposed to be cheaper and lower labor IF
its done right.  I think it takes a different mindset.  Rather than figuring
out how to make things easier to do try to figure out how not to do them
period.  My experience has always been that a good sow on pasture (ie at
least 1/10 of an acre per sow and preferably more space) will do just fine
with any number of pigs on her with needle teeth.   That same sow in some
kind of  farrowing quarters inside a barn will have problems with pigs with
their teeth.

What I want to know and I've never been able to get an answer is what
happens to the teeth that are clipped?  Do they regrow?  Or does us crazy
folks that don't clip them end up with extra teeth in our pigs on the rail?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: JADDarnall@... <JADDarnall@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


>In a message dated 5/5/01 12:02:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>hey4hogs@... writes:
>
><< why do you have to clip their teeth?  I've never clipped teeth on
pasture
> nor did my dad or his dad before him.  I would conservatively estimate
that
> at about 25,000 pigs farrowed on pasture and no problems with leaving the
> teeth in them.
> Greg >>
>
>I'd "heard" the chances of "greasy pig" (staph) infections go up
drastically
>when the teeth aren't clipped...any experiences with this???
>
>What about the sow's discomfort?
>
>I'd like to wean at about 35 days...I know some wean earlier, but this
seems
>to be when the sow is also "ready" to wean also plus the pigs seem to do
>better...Any comments?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jerry Darnall
>JADDarnall@...
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I agree with Greg.  I used to cut teeth, but quit.  A lot of big confinements
don't cut teeth anymore either.  I don't think the infection thing is that big
of a problem.  In fact some people find that a split tooth during cutting can
cause navel ill.  I've never had any problems after quitting.

I would like to castrate at a few days after birth.  This has been a challenge. 
My plan this year is to fix up the tractor front end loader so I can set a bale
ring over the porta-hut with it.  (I'd make sure its a ring that the sow can't
get through)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: JADDarnall@...
   To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 4:45 PM
   Subject: Re: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


   In a message dated 5/5/01 12:02:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
   hey4hogs@... writes:

   << why do you have to clip their teeth?  I've never clipped teeth on pasture
   nor did my dad or his dad before him.  I would conservatively estimate that
   at about 25,000 pigs farrowed on pasture and no problems with leaving the
   teeth in them.
   Greg >>

   I'd "heard" the chances of "greasy pig" (staph) infections go up drastically
   when the teeth aren't clipped...any experiences with this???

   What about the sow's discomfort?

   I'd like to wean at about 35 days...I know some wean earlier, but this seems
   to be when the sow is also "ready" to wean also plus the pigs seem to do
   better...Any comments?

   Thanks,

   Jerry Darnall
   JADDarnall@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't have alot of experience finishing pigs on pasture.  I am transitioning
myself.  I have done some pasture farrowing.

Pasture produciton in general is a low cost system and a low start up system. 
That is a major benefit.  It should be considered by anyone interested in
entering the hog business without lots of equity.

The biggest benefit of pasture production is that it is a sustainable system. 
There are few manure management problems and a greater use of manure benefits. 
Grazing crops and hogging down grains is the most effecient way of feeding
livestock.  It has numerous environmental pluses.  Less fuel use, less feed
waste, less dependence on monoculture crops.  This is valuable not only on a
microeconmic scale for the farmer, but is a benefit to society as a whole who
doesn't have to pay for pollution clean up, soil loss, air pollution, etc.  If
as a producers we don't have concerns about animal welfare, you can be assured
that a great many consumers do.  From a consumer point of view pasture
production is infinetly more humane.  Despite industrial claims to the contrary,
disease managment seems to be easier outside on pasture as well.  Worker
conditions are superior as well, depending of course, on whether you would
rather spend the day inside in humid, hot, dusty, noxious gas ridden buildings,
or outside in the sometimes wet, sometimes cold, but always beautiful fresh
clean air.

As I said I don't have any practical experience feeding pigs on pasture.  I do
have a vegetable operation where I believe hogs would work really well cleaning
up unmarketable crops.  I intend on grazing; corn, oats, oats/peas,  alfalfa,
clover, and rape.  I have run sows on clover, grass and rape.  I think between
the oats/peas, vegetables, and corn, i can probably keep hogs on pasture much of
the summer/fall.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I never went back and looked but the teeth fall out and are replaced by mature
teeth.  I seem to remember reading that it is at a relatively young age??? The
main problem with teeth--they claim-- is in the first few days when the pigs are
fighting over dominance in the litter and establishing which tit is whose.  Once
that period is over there is little scratching, biting etc.  I have noticed
considerable scratching in confinement pigs, like you not much on pasture.  Even
in confinement I never seen any problems associated with it.  I think certain
breeds are worse than others at this fighting early on.  Seems like I read
somewhere landrace were some of the worst.  My experience would support this.

I never noticed any problems associated with the scratches on the udder either. 
I suppose if your sows aren't letting the pigs eat you might want to try
clipping teeth.  I never had any problems though.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp
   To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 10:28 PM
   Subject: Re: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


   The only time I've ever seen greasy pig was when I tried farrowing a couple
   of sows shut inside a hut in a barn in the middle of winter.  Little pigs
   will tear their littermates faces up if they don't have anything better to
   do.  On pasture they have something better to do.  I'm sure if you wanted
   you could clip teeth, tails, give the little pigs shots at 1, 4, 7, 12 1/2,
   and 14 days, wean them at 15 days, shut them up in individual paddocks to
   farrow,  build a hot nursery for the little pigs, end up deciding that while
   you are at it you might as well have a few crates also.   :) Please excuse
   my sarcasm.  Pasture farrowing is supposed to be cheaper and lower labor IF
   its done right.  I think it takes a different mindset.  Rather than figuring
   out how to make things easier to do try to figure out how not to do them
   period.  My experience has always been that a good sow on pasture (ie at
   least 1/10 of an acre per sow and preferably more space) will do just fine
   with any number of pigs on her with needle teeth.   That same sow in some
   kind of  farrowing quarters inside a barn will have problems with pigs with
   their teeth.

   What I want to know and I've never been able to get an answer is what
   happens to the teeth that are clipped?  Do they regrow?  Or does us crazy
   folks that don't clip them end up with extra teeth in our pigs on the rail?
   Greg
   -----Original Message-----
   From: JADDarnall@... <JADDarnall@...>
   To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
   Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 4:45 PM
   Subject: Re: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


   >In a message dated 5/5/01 12:02:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
   >hey4hogs@... writes:
   >
   ><< why do you have to clip their teeth?  I've never clipped teeth on
   pasture
   > nor did my dad or his dad before him.  I would conservatively estimate
   that
   > at about 25,000 pigs farrowed on pasture and no problems with leaving the
   > teeth in them.
   > Greg >>
   >
   >I'd "heard" the chances of "greasy pig" (staph) infections go up
   drastically
   >when the teeth aren't clipped...any experiences with this???
   >
   >What about the sow's discomfort?
   >
   >I'd like to wean at about 35 days...I know some wean earlier, but this
   seems
   >to be when the sow is also "ready" to wean also plus the pigs seem to do
   >better...Any comments?
   >
   >Thanks,
   >
   >Jerry Darnall
   >JADDarnall@...
   >
   >Community email addresses:
   >  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
   >  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
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   >
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   >
   >


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hows it work down there is Australia.  Glad to hear of pasture hogs
anywhere.  I suppose its much like up here.  Corn and soybean meal?
Do you pasture finish?  Alfalfa pastures?  I recken there must be
kangaroos hopping all over?  Now that would be a strange thing from
my point of view.  :-)  We do have deer jumping all over around here--
all ripping up electric fence, eating crops, being general pains in
the neck.

--- In PasturedPigs@y..., "Sandra Davern" <chevon@b...> wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> Here's a reply from Australia. We farrow our sows out in the open
with only
> a shade shelter over them, no walls just four posts. In our
climate, huts
> would be too hot for most of the year.  In winter we get some
frosts at
> night but the days mostly sunny. Haven't you heard what is said
about
> Queensland's weather "Beautiful one day, perfect the next"
>
> So we don't clip teeth or tails nor do we castrate. The sows
haven't shown
> any signs of bitten teats or bites on littermates faces, so why
bother. I
> just can't run fast enough!
>
> (I did read in a technical report once that the only reason teeth
clipping
> started was possible lacerations on the piglets faces from more
aggressive
> littermates.)
>
>
> Regards,
> Sandra Davern
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JADDarnall@a... <JADDarnall@a...>
> To: PasturedPigs@y... <PasturedPigs@y...>
> Date: Saturday, 5 May 2001 1:10
> Subject: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...
>
>
> >OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:
> >
> >Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of
farrowing
> >hut).
> >..How are you clipping teeth?
> >..And what is the sow doing during this operation?
> >
> >any short cuts?
> >
> >I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going
in there
> to
> >clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.
> >
> >Jerry Darnall
> >JADDarnall@a...
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >Community email addresses:
> >  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
> >  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
> >  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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> >
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> >  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

I'd like to hear about the market in Australia and how low the prices got in
December of 98.  I may be naive but I think I can raise pigs as cheap as
anyone in the world wants to ship them to the US for but that doesn't mean
anything when you are selling pigs for 8 cents a pound.  It looks like in
the US that most pasture farrowers have given up the commodity market.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffery <echoecho@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 11:41 PM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] Re: pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


>Hows it work down there is Australia.  Glad to hear of pasture hogs
>anywhere.  I suppose its much like up here.  Corn and soybean meal?
>Do you pasture finish?  Alfalfa pastures?  I recken there must be
>kangaroos hopping all over?  Now that would be a strange thing from
>my point of view.  :-)  We do have deer jumping all over around here--
>all ripping up electric fence, eating crops, being general pains in
>the neck.
>
>--- In PasturedPigs@y..., "Sandra Davern" <chevon@b...> wrote:
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Here's a reply from Australia. We farrow our sows out in the open
>with only
>> a shade shelter over them, no walls just four posts. In our
>climate, huts
>> would be too hot for most of the year.  In winter we get some
>frosts at
>> night but the days mostly sunny. Haven't you heard what is said
>about
>> Queensland's weather "Beautiful one day, perfect the next"
>>
>> So we don't clip teeth or tails nor do we castrate. The sows
>haven't shown
>> any signs of bitten teats or bites on littermates faces, so why
>bother. I
>> just can't run fast enough!
>>
>> (I did read in a technical report once that the only reason teeth
>clipping
>> started was possible lacerations on the piglets faces from more
>aggressive
>> littermates.)
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sandra Davern
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: JADDarnall@a... <JADDarnall@a...>
>> To: PasturedPigs@y... <PasturedPigs@y...>
>> Date: Saturday, 5 May 2001 1:10
>> Subject: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...
>>
>>
>> >OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:
>> >
>> >Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of
>farrowing
>> >hut).
>> >..How are you clipping teeth?
>> >..And what is the sow doing during this operation?
>> >
>> >any short cuts?
>> >
>> >I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going
>in there
>> to
>> >clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.
>> >
>> >Jerry Darnall
>> >JADDarnall@a...
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >Community email addresses:
>> >  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>> >  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
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>> >  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> >Shortcut URL to this page:
>> >  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>Community email addresses:
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>
>

Jeffrey,

We probably do alot of things the same "down under"  We call our pastured
hogs - freerange pigs over here. We have started feeding them only once a
day to see how they go. Our pigs were straight out of an intensive piggery
in January and so far have adapted well. Most are due to farrow again around
the end of July to mid August.

We supplement our pigs with a modified lactating sow ration, which we buy
in. The basis for the ration is soy and cottonseed meal with corn, wheat and
sorghum, meat and fish meal. Plus added vitamins and minerals to this I also
have added to every half tonne (500kgs which is 1100lbs) 10lbs of dolomite,
7lbs of sulphur and 3lb of copper sulphate.  The dolomite keeps their
calcium and magnesium levels right so we get no mastitis, the sulphur keeps
lice away and the copper keeps them in good health and when an animals
copper levels are high internal parasites don't like it.

I also have copper, sulphur and dolomite added to the feed of EVERYTHING on
the place. We also run 600 meat goats, I mix up these minerals into a loose
lick for them, we don't otherwise feed them.

The few Saanen goats which I milk and spoil, along with the cows and calves
we fatten get the minerals  in a dairy mix we have made up.

We even feed the sow mix to all our poultry eg. chickens, turkeys, ducks and
geese. Everything is always healthy and growing well.

We don't have many kangaroos on the place there are a few wallabies in the
back hills but the Maremma Dogs we have with the goats will not tolerate any
strange animals in their paddocks. The roos and wallabies jump out at you
when you are driving, so on country roads you have to be aware of them being
around. If you hit one you can wreck the front of your car.

We grow lucerne (alfalfa) and bale it for sale. We do cut fresh lucerne for
the pigs and we are now planting forage barley and oats, some for baling and
some for strip grazing, as we are coming into our winter.

Bye for now,

Sandra Davern.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffery <echoecho@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, 6 May 2001 2:42
Subject: [PasturedPigs] Re: pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...


>Hows it work down there is Australia.  Glad to hear of pasture hogs
>anywhere.  I suppose its much like up here.  Corn and soybean meal?
>Do you pasture finish?  Alfalfa pastures?  I recken there must be
>kangaroos hopping all over?  Now that would be a strange thing from
>my point of view.  :-)  We do have deer jumping all over around here--
>all ripping up electric fence, eating crops, being general pains in
>the neck.
>
>--- In PasturedPigs@y..., "Sandra Davern" <chevon@b...> wrote:
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Here's a reply from Australia. We farrow our sows out in the open
>with only
>> a shade shelter over them, no walls just four posts. In our
>climate, huts
>> would be too hot for most of the year.  In winter we get some
>frosts at
>> night but the days mostly sunny. Haven't you heard what is said
>about
>> Queensland's weather "Beautiful one day, perfect the next"
>>
>> So we don't clip teeth or tails nor do we castrate. The sows
>haven't shown
>> any signs of bitten teats or bites on littermates faces, so why
>bother. I
>> just can't run fast enough!
>>
>> (I did read in a technical report once that the only reason teeth
>clipping
>> started was possible lacerations on the piglets faces from more
>aggressive
>> littermates.)
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sandra Davern
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: JADDarnall@a... <JADDarnall@a...>
>> To: PasturedPigs@y... <PasturedPigs@y...>
>> Date: Saturday, 5 May 2001 1:10
>> Subject: [PasturedPigs] pastured sows/farrowing & teeth clipping...
>>
>>
>> >OK, since the list is so quiet...here's a question for you:
>> >
>> >Those of you raising and farrowing in the pasture (some kind of
>farrowing
>> >hut).
>> >..How are you clipping teeth?
>> >..And what is the sow doing during this operation?
>> >
>> >any short cuts?
>> >
>> >I've been using the Port-A-Hut (one door) and I'm sure not going
>in there
>> to
>> >clip teeth with her trying to tear my head off at first squeal.
>> >
>> >Jerry Darnall
>> >JADDarnall@a...
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >Community email addresses:
>> >  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>> >  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>> >  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> >  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> >Shortcut URL to this page:
>> >  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
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>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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>
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>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

We sold ours at $40 each; they were 20-40#.

Jenny Drake
Nubians and Oberhasli
Peaceful Pastures All Natural Meats
Beef, veal, pork, lamb, turkey and chicken
http://www.peacefulpastures.com
Central Tennessee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/5/01 8:18:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hey4hogs@... writes:


> :) Please excuse
> my sarcasm.  Pasture farrowing is supposed to be cheaper and lower labor IF
> its done right.  I think it takes a different mindset.  Rather than figuring
> out how to make things easier to do try to figure out how not to do them
>

Thanks Greg...
I will excuse your sarcasm....if you will excuse my naivety. I am recently
moving back in to swine (small family herd on 15 acres) after being out of
them for 30 years.
I raised purebred Yorks during my high school days for FFA...several sows and
one boar, and everything was confined in those days.

Now, my son is in FFA/4-H and very interested in the various swine projects.
The only reason I'm back into them, is because I'm am committed to the
pasture raising.
It makes for a healthy, happy pig.  I just have to learn to deal with all the
former "training" of 30 years ago. I'm learning, actually "relearning".

I have decided not to clip teeth this summer and we'll see what happens.

Got another question for you, if you have time...what are you worming with
and what schedule?

I have been using Diatomaceous earth (food grade) mixed with feed 3-4 times a
week, seems to keep everyone worm feed with the corresponding trace minerals.
Butchered nine last fall, (never chemically wormed) and did complete
intestinal dissections looking for worm/lesions. All nine were completely
clear. My vet was impressed, actual took some to try on her cat/dog. I am
interested in your opinion.

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've not had good luck with any kind of worming program other than to let
the pastures set idle for at least 3 years before I put finishing hogs back
on them.  That used to work fine until I decided to seek organic
certification.  That put a severe crimp in which acres I can now use for hog
pasture.   I see the insides of most every pig I raise now (and sure would
like to have quality employees on the kill floor so I could do something
else but that is another story!!!!).  I've not seen any signs of worm
problems or pnemonia yet.  I'm sure that won't always be the case.  I've
tried DE, homeopathy, etc and it seems to me that clean pastures make the
biggest difference.

Am I correct that the new organic standards are going to allow non-routine
use of synthetic parasite control?   I know of people that pen them up on
concrete over parasite control.  I'll raise non-organic pigs before I do
that! Sorry I couldn't be of any help.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: JADDarnall@... <JADDarnall@...>
To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, May 06, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] Teeth clipping and worming question...


>In a message dated 5/5/01 8:18:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>hey4hogs@... writes:
>
>
>> :) Please excuse
>> my sarcasm.  Pasture farrowing is supposed to be cheaper and lower labor
IF
>> its done right.  I think it takes a different mindset.  Rather than
figuring
>> out how to make things easier to do try to figure out how not to do them
>>
>
>Thanks Greg...
>I will excuse your sarcasm....if you will excuse my naivety. I am recently
>moving back in to swine (small family herd on 15 acres) after being out of
>them for 30 years.
>I raised purebred Yorks during my high school days for FFA...several sows
and
>one boar, and everything was confined in those days.
>
>Now, my son is in FFA/4-H and very interested in the various swine
projects.
>The only reason I'm back into them, is because I'm am committed to the
>pasture raising.
>It makes for a healthy, happy pig.  I just have to learn to deal with all
the
>former "training" of 30 years ago. I'm learning, actually "relearning".
>
>I have decided not to clip teeth this summer and we'll see what happens.
>
>Got another question for you, if you have time...what are you worming with
>and what schedule?
>
>I have been using Diatomaceous earth (food grade) mixed with feed 3-4 times
a
>week, seems to keep everyone worm feed with the corresponding trace
minerals.
>Butchered nine last fall, (never chemically wormed) and did complete
>intestinal dissections looking for worm/lesions. All nine were completely
>clear. My vet was impressed, actual took some to try on her cat/dog. I am
>interested in your opinion.
>
>Jerry Darnall
>JADDarnall@...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Well, I have to comment on the clipping teeth, docking tails, and worming.

There is no need to do either clipping teeth or docking tails.  These were
created out of confinement situations.  Confinement just plain sucks.  It is
like putting a child or even yourself in a dark room with little or no
natural light, no grass for your feet to touch, no flowers to smell...you all
know what I am talking about.  Well, confinement hogs are so cramped that
they start biting each other and chewing on the ears and tails.  So, to
combat this, some "scientific conclusion" came about and now they clip teeth
and rip off tails.

We have pastured pigs in an orchard and we have had no problems with
excessive chewing, they are too busy rooting and eating fine quality grass,
apples and peaches.  The idea that babies cut the teets of their mamas just
doesn't happen.  If they get too rough, the mother will let them know and
give them a toss.

Now, about worming and vaccinations.  After many years of being told that YOU
have to vaccinate and worm, I finally did some of my own research.  I
vaccinate only the adults.  If the breeding stock is healthy, then the babies
will too.  I agree with the clean pastures.  DO NOT DRAG your fields, you are
just spreading the worms around to larger areas.  Pigs have amazing digestive
systems.  The DE works but, as long as the pigs have access to fresh dirt
they will take care of their own worm problems.  Pigs are much happier on
grass and dirt.

Hope this helps, good luck.  We just had three more litters in the past two
weeks, waiting on #4 tonite.  Wish Doc good luck.
Lynne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Group,

Anybody using some decent swine management software??

Any comments? NO-no's?

Preferably Windows based and in English

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi;
   I know of two excellent programs. I can give you details. Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: <JADDarnall@...>
To: <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>; <PIGS-AND-SWINE@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:07 PM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] swine management software


> Hello Group,
>
> Anybody using some decent swine management software??
>
> Any comments? NO-no's?
>
> Preferably Windows based and in English
>
> Jerry Darnall
> JADDarnall@...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

I would like to hear what kind of tanks that you use to supply water to your
pastured pigs. I use a rotational system and have not found a suitable
watering tanks/troughs that works well with pigs. We are talking 20 plus
pigs here.

Charles Ritch
Goose Pond Farm ,LLC
Hartselle, Alabama
ritch@...

Hi Charles....I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I don't have too much of a
problem with freezing weather, during that time frame, I use the black 50
gallon Rubbermaid
water troughs...During the rest of the year I use automatic waters (bowl type
with the floats) the lines just lay on the ground up against the fences.

At the far end, I've installed a nursery "fog" nozzle, so when it turns hot,
I mist an area for the pigs to cool down in...this allows the water to
constantly flow a little and not overheat in the hoses...

PS: I installed a drip irrigation 25psi/flow regulator at the supply end two
years ago. this keeps the supply pressure lower(steadier) and if the hose
gets broken, at least it doesn't run the well dry.

Hope this helps.

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Group:

Will be looking to purchase some bulk feed hoppers 2 - 4 ton size...anyone
have any recommendations/comments/brand suggestions?

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry;
   Are these feeders or bulk bins?  Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: <JADDarnall@...>
To: <PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com>; <PIGS-AND-SWINE@egroups.com>;
<Barnyard@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: [PasturedPigs] Bulk feed hoppers


> Hi Group:
>
> Will be looking to purchase some bulk feed hoppers 2 - 4 ton size...anyone
> have any recommendations/comments/brand suggestions?
>
> Jerry Darnall
> JADDarnall@...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: PasturedPigs@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    PasturedPigs-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  PasturedPigs-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   PasturedPigs-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/PasturedPigs
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 5/22/01 8:26:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
frantzen@... writes:


> Jerry;
>   Are these feeders or bulk bins?  Tom
>

Hi Tom...Bulk bins.

No one out here in the Pacific Northwest stocks anything, so it will be a
special order... We will be purchasing our "base" feed in ton lots, then
supplementing to the various groups (grower, breeder, etc).  Do you have any
preference/experience in the bulk bins?

Jerry

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi;
I am looking at buying a bred sow or gilt on Sat.Have pasture & goat milk to
feed. Wondering what else I may have to give her in the lines of food ,
minerals & shots etc.

                                                 Diana



"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field & every bird
of the air, & brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.Whatever
Adam called each living creature, that was it's name". Genesis 2:19

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

In a message dated 5/24/01 6:48:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rare_breeds@... writes:


> Hi;
> I am looking at buying a bred sow or gilt on Sat.Have pasture & goat milk
> to
> feed. Wondering what else I may have to give her in the lines of food ,
> minerals & shots etc.
>
>

She will need a good quality "Gestating Sow" feed with proper vitamins and
minerals for the "babies" to develop properly...Also I would strongly
recommend you find out what vaccination schedule the previous owner was
using, and continue it.

Be careful with the extra milk, Don't let her get over weight... It makes
delivery harder.

Jerry Darnall
JADDarnall@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been offered a large amount of dried beans and peas.  Does anyone
know if they need to be cooked before they are fed.  What age pig can
eat and digest the beans and peas?
Thanks Nicole

You don't have to cook the beans or peas.  Off the top of my head it seems like
protein in beans is not as digestible as in soybean meal, and peas and beans
both are short an essential protein--methanine or something like that.  You
should be able to feed quite a bit of peas, but should supplement it with
another protein source that has that protein--(metha-whatever)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Nicole Murray
   To: PasturedPigs@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 1:49 AM
   Subject: [PasturedPigs] Dried beans and peas


   I have been offered a large amount of dried beans and peas.  Does anyone
   know if they need to be cooked before they are fed.  What age pig can
   eat and digest the beans and peas?
   Thanks Nicole

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