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Jay,

    I'm glad you were able to revive the camera with instructions given
to me by an anonymous friend who deserves most of the credit for
figuring out what was wrong with it and repaired it, and he was
generous enough to let me share the repair technique with the 850
community.  My revived camera is being used as a back-up camera to my
FZ30 that I bought, and is still going strong after the repair, even
though its usage went from heavy to light.

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <NWTSPM@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jan & HPPS850 gang,
>
> Just wanted to share the news with everyone that I was successful in
> fixing the "rainbow issue" that has plagued my 850 for the past 2
> years and caused me to shelve the camera. Many thanks Jan for posting
> the detailed repair instructions in the HP945 forum...
>
> http://www.hp945.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1293
>
> Example photos showing the problme can be found in this group's
> Photos sestion under "A Toasted 850".
>
> As promised I did shoot a couple of photos of the disassembly and
> will be sending them to you (Jan) for inclusion in your repair
> thread. Unfortunately I only had my 35mm camera to shoot with. I will
> email some scans when I get them back from processing.
>
> The only thing I wasn't certain about was how long to leave the
> soldering pencil on each leads in order to reflow the solder without
> applying undue heat to the board. I used a 15w pencil and applied it
> to each pin seperately (I think 48 in all) for about 6-7 seconds with
> 3 minutes cool down time between each application.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jay (with newly resurrected HP PS850!)

Hello Jan & HPPS850 gang,

Just wanted to share the news with everyone that I was successful in
fixing the "rainbow issue" that has plagued my 850 for the past 2
years and caused me to shelve the camera. Many thanks Jan for posting
the detailed repair instructions in the HP945 forum...

http://www.hp945.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1293

Example photos showing the problme can be found in this group's
Photos sestion under "A Toasted 850".

As promised I did shoot a couple of photos of the disassembly and
will be sending them to you (Jan) for inclusion in your repair
thread. Unfortunately I only had my 35mm camera to shoot with. I will
email some scans when I get them back from processing.

The only thing I wasn't certain about was how long to leave the
soldering pencil on each leads in order to reflow the solder without
applying undue heat to the board. I used a 15w pencil and applied it
to each pin seperately (I think 48 in all) for about 6-7 seconds with
3 minutes cool down time between each application.

Best regards,

Jay (with newly resurrected HP PS850!)

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "jgenemans" <jgenemans@...>
wrote:
>
> The HP850's is starting to malfunction a lot, as you will see in the
> next batch of photos that I hope to upload very shortly
> (http://www.hp945.com/galleries/index.php?cat=8).  It occasionally
> showed the red screen or black screen before the colored blotches
and
> out-of-focus happened.  Since HP refuses to be reasonable, I am
buying
> a new NON-HP camera.  In hind-site HP could have had a lot of good
> press with my most current album, but the HP failed in the hour of
my
> greatest need for it to behave properly.
>
> However, the good news is that since I cannot leave NOLA, my wife is
> flying down to the vessel on Thursday, hopefully with a brand new
> Panasonic FZ30 to replace the ailing 850, so I will still be here.
> The HP850 was my 2nd digi-cam and completed my transistion from film
> to digital. Now it is time to move on to a better camera since HP
> doesn't have anything comparable in their line-up in the ultra-zoom
range.
>
> Professional Reviews:
> http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-
review/index.shtml
> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/story_3792.html
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0507/05072004panasonic_fz30.asp
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/panasonicfz30/
>
> User Review
> http://www.shopping.com/xPR-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC_FZ30~RD-
195479506564
>
> From what I can tell it fixes my three biggest complaints that the
> HP850/945 series had:
>
> My only two concerns:
>
> 1.  Digital Noise, which is similar to the HP camera that we own.
> Other alternative would be a more expensive DSLR setup costing 2x or
> more and be a lot more complicated.
>
> 2.  Proprietary Battery, does not use cheap double "AA" batteries.
> Will not be addressed by any better prosumer camera other than the
> Canon SR12 which has severe Chromatic Aberration in reviews and will
> also have the dust issue too since it's lens protrudes.
>
> Pluses:
> 700%+ increase in speed of startup & operation  (#1 complaint on HP)
>   1 second start-up time
>   0.1-0.3 seconds to focus and shoot a photograph
>   3 FPS unlimited continious shooting
> Dust issue resolved!  (#2 complaint)
>   Sealed lens that doesn't extend and retract :)
> Reduced Chromatic Aberration (#3 issue w/ HP)
> Uses same type of memory as current HP camera's
> With a 55-52 adapter can use the same accessories/lens, including my
> underwater case.
> 100% increase in resolution
>    8MP vs 4MP
> 100% increase in light sensitivity
>    ISO 400 vs ISO 200
> 50% increase in optical zoom
>   12x vs 8x
> Better zoom control on ring
>   Infinite steps instead of 13
> Manual Focus on ring
> RAW/TIFF file format (better post processing)
> Image stabilization
> External Flash Mount
> Broadcast quality video (no DSLR has this)
> Similar but improved controls layout to current camera.
>
> Acceptable Minuses:
> Bigger & Heavier
> More Expensive
>
> --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Mc Kee" <NWTSPM@m...>
wrote:
> > Hi Jan,
> >
> > Sorry to hear your 850 has joined The Dark Side as mine did, and
at
> an especially bad time too. I don't think your harder-than-usual
> handling of the unit has anything to do with the problem. I've
always
> babied mine, never banged, dropped or otherwise sunjected it to any
> shock and I have never got it damp let alone wet. One unusual thing
> did happen once. I got caught in the rotor wash of a landing
> helicopter once in Apr 2004. Some dust did enter the optics but I
was
> able to blow most of it out (probably some back into) the camera
using
> compressed air. Other than some splotches caused by dust in the
> optics, the 850 worked fine unil the processing problem erupted in
May
> 2005.
> >
> > The problem - at least in my unit - manifests itself in yellow and
> fuchia pixles as well as red. The error does follow contours and
falls
> in shadows where severe changes in brightness occurs. (on the "dark
> side" where light/bright borders into shadow) Do you have any
examples
> to share? I'd be interested to see a sample and let you know if it
> looks similar or identical to an "effect" that I have seen with
mine.
> >
> > Unfortunately I have little faith in HP or their products. Based
on
> what I have heard of their service of these cameras, I have chalked
up
> my experience with the 850 as a costly lesson learned. I turned my
> trusty 35mm Canon A-1 SLR over to my local Canon authorized repair
> facility for a complete teardown and overhaul, which is far cheaper
> than replacing the 850 and will produce beautiful photographs.
> Although bigger and more clumbsy than the 850, my SLR has multiple
> programmable modes incuding fully automatic, instant response and
> predictable results. All attributes I had to give up in the trade-
off
> with the convenience of digital. I'm actually looking forward to
> shooting film again.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: jgenemans<mailto:jgenemans@y...>
> >   To:
>
Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:36 AM
> >   Subject: [Photosmart_850] Re: Did I cook my 850?
> >
> >
> >   Jay,
> >
> >      My camera started doing something similar, it is creating a
ghost
> >   image of red dots similar to yousr, only mine is following the
> >   contours of objects that are light/dark in color but are
offset.  I'm
> >   taking hurricane Katrina aftermath photos with mine and have
been
> >   subjecting it to unusually harder condition that IT SHOULD BE
ABLE TO
> >   HANDLE.
> >
> >      Needless to say, HP has let me down again, and again, and
again
> >   especially when I needed their product to work the most.
> >
> >      Did you finally resolve your red dot issue?
> >
> >   Jan
> >
> >   --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <NWTSPM@m...>
wrote:
> >   > Hi jgenemans,
> >   >
> >   > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "jgenemans"
<jgenemans@y...>
> >   wrote:
> >   > > 400x400 image pixels is the limit of the Yahoo group limit
as
> far as I
> >   > > can tell.
> >   > >
> >   > > It is best to crop a photo down to that size to illustrate
the
> problem
> >   > > rather than resize it to 400x300.
> >   >
> >   > Okay. I did that. There are two more samples, progressively
tighter
> >   > crops of "Sample2", in the Photos section.
> >   >
> >   > > From what I am seeing, it appears that the edges appear to
be
> >   > > distorted or over-sharpened, a processing error.
> >   > >
> >   > > Try opening the battery door on your camera (or removing the
> >   > > batteries) for 24 hours, this resets the camera.
> >   >
> >   > I will try that. the longest I've had the batteries out is
about 30
> >   > minutes. I'll leave the batteries out for a week if there is
any
> >   > chance that it might solve the problem.
> >   >
> >   > > If this doesn't work
> >   > > then check the firmware that is on the camera.
> >   > >
> >   > > What version of the firmware are you using?  Depress
the 'flash'
> >   > > button while turning on the camera to put it into its
> diagnotic mode.
> >   > >  Look for "FW", it should read 1.01.05 (or .06), if it
doesn't
> read
> >   > > these numbers, you may want to flash the firmware.  .06 is
the
> highest
> >   > > officially released firmware revision, .04 and below were
> plagued with
> >   > > freezes and other issues.
> >   >
> >   > I updated the firmware in June in reaction to this problem. It
> had no
> >   > effect.
> >   >
> >   > > There is some risk to this, as I have read on a few
instances
> where
> >   > > the camera totally became unusuable, especially if the
camera
> is out
> >   > > of warranty.
> >   >
> >   > Thankfully that has not happened.
> >   >
> >   > > Make sure you use the original 16MB SD chip, and are
> >   > > using a set of fully charged batteries prior to flashing
your
> camera's
> >   > > firmware as it will take a little while (last time I did
this
> was two
> >   > > years ago).
> >   >
> >   > I used fresh alkaline batteries when I flashed the firmware,
but
> don't
> >   > remember if I used the original 16MB SD card. It's likely
that I
> used
> >   > my SanDisk 256MB card for the operation. It it that important
that I
> >   > should reflash it using the 16MB card?
> >   >
> >   > Thanks for your help.
> >   >
> >   > Regards,
> >   >
> >   > Jay
> >   >
> >   > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <NWTSPM@m...>
wrote:
> >   > > > Hi jgenemans,
> >   > > >
> >   > > > 400 image pixels or monitor pixels?
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I can resize to 400 pixels wide, but that just "shrinks"
the
> whole
> >   > > > frame. Are you looking for a crop that nets 400 image
> pixels? I just
> >   > > > uploaded three samples that are resized. Not sure if that
is
> helpful
> >   > > > of not.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I don't know how to view the "Full Size" photos after
they are
> >   > > > uploaded. I (as the owner/uploader) have never had a
problem
> viewing
> >   > > > the full size photo I upload to any Yahoo Groups' photo
section.
> >   Maybe
> >   > > > that's available only for the images a particular person
> uploads?
> >   > > > (i.e. "your own")
> >   > > >
> >   > > > My camera is out of warantee. I understand how bad their
service
> >   > > > policy is. Why would anybody want to pay for nearly the
full
> >   purchase
> >   > > > price just to receive someone elses used/refurbished
camera?
> That's
> >   > > > insane. It's almost as if they discourage repair work
> intentionally.
> >   > > > HP is a joke, not just the cameras, but the company as a
whole.
> >   (these
> >   > > > days) If Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard could see what's
> happening at
> >   > > > the company that bears their name, they would roll in
their
> >   graves. At
> >   > > > least the heart of their company - Test and Measurement -
what
> >   HP was
> >   > > > founded on - lives on at Agilent.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Sorry for the rant.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I do appreciate your suggestions. I may or may not launch
my
> problem
> >   > > > over to the 945 group. This camera is looking like a lost
> cause. I
> >   > > > can't afford to be in the market for another digital
camera
> >   right now
> >   > > > and I don't want to buy used, so I'm back to my 35mm SLR.
At
> >   least the
> >   > > > control, flexibility, predictablity and quailty is there,
> even if I
> >   > > > have to wait for processing. Sigh.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Regards,
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Jay
> >   > > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "jgenemans"
> <jgenemans@y...>
> >   > > wrote:
> >   > > > > Unfortunately I cannot look at your photos in full
size, if
> >   you can
> >   > > > > crop them down to 400 x 400 pixels.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > (Does anyone know how to view uploaded files in their
full
> size?
> >   > > > > Yahoo!'s help doesn't even come close to answering this
> >   question.  I
> >   > > > > have nothing to click in FireFox or IE 6.0)
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > It appears that "image problem sample 2" has red
blotches
> >   (flowers)
> >   > > > > that shouldn't be there as I could only view it in
400x301
> >   > pixels.  If
> >   > > > > this is the case, I haven't seen this kind of defect
> before on the
> >   > > > > 850/945.  You may want to ask your question at
> www.hp945.com and
> >   > post
> >   > > > > your photos there (250kb limit).
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > If the camera is in warranty, you are in luck.  If not,
then
> >   you are
> >   > > > > screwed as HP doesn't fix camera's.  You return your
> camera, they
> >   > > > > charge you the price for a new one while sending you a
> >   refurbhished
> >   > > > > camera (above market value, I might add), they in turn
> repair your
> >   > > > > camera and repeat the process for some other person
with a
> >   > camera that
> >   > > > > is not functioning correctly since they 'claim' that
they
> >   don't fix
> >   > > > > camera's, but somehow manage to get 'refurbished'
cameras
> -- those
> >   > > > > camera's have to come from somewhere.  HP has lost my
business
> >   for a
> >   > > > > simple cleaning that they wanted $300 USD for.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay"
<NWTSPM@m...>
> wrote:
> >   > > > > > Hi all,
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > I would like to invite everyone to take a look at my
sample
> >   > > > > pictures
> >   > > > > > under "Photos>A Toasted 850".
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Has anybody experienced *that* before with their
850/945?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > If so, what might the problem be? (Other than the fact
> that I
> >   > > > > bought
> >   > > > > > a camera from a computer company - Mistake!)
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Would something like that be repairable?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Would HP be competent enough (or even care enough) to
> try it?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Thanks!
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > -Jay
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "jgenemans"
> >   > <jgenemans@y...>
> >   > > > > > wrote:
> >   > > > > > > Yahoo strips the photographs, so they were not
visible.
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > Based on what you have said, I have not heard of
this
> in HP
> >   > > > > > 850/945's.
> >   > > > > > >  It sounds like a sensor/processor defect of some
kind.
> >   > "Noise"
> >   > > > > > would
> >   > > > > > > appear similar to grain in 35mm film and can be
> corrected with
> >   > > > > Neat
> >   > > > > > Image.
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > Dead/Hot pixels would appear white, blue, red,
green,
> or black
> >   > > > > where
> >   > > > > > > an individual pixel has malfunctioned.  From your
> >   > description, it
> >   > > > > > > sounds like an entire register (produces lines,
zones, or
> >   entire
> >   > > > > > > colors are messed up) has malfucntioned on your
sensor
> or your
> >   > > > > > > processor since it can be seen on both the
viewfinder,
> >   > screen, and
> >   > > > > > > resulting JPG file (can't be more specific without
> seeing a
> >   > photo
> >   > > > > > > first).
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > Since it is out of warranty not much can be done.
If
> you are
> >   > > > > > > adventerious, open the camera in a clean room
> environment and
> >   > > > > check
> >   > > > > > > all of the connections (NOT RECOMMENDED) and
> reassemeble.  I
> >   > > > > haven't
> >   > > > > > > heard of a 100% success story when someone has done
this.
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > I know that this isn't what you wanted to hear, but
based
> >   solely
> >   > > > > on
> >   > > > > > > your description it sounds like your camera is only
useful
> >   for
> >   > > > > > modern
> >   > > > > > > artsy type photographs.
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay"
<NWTSPM@m...>
> >   > wrote:
> >   > > > > > > > Hi All,
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Sorry if I upset anyone by sending sample photos
with my
> >   > > > > initial
> >   > > > > > post.
> >   > > > > > > > I should have thought about sending unsolicited
> >   > attachments. My
> >   > > > > > bad.
> >   > > > > > > =8^(
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I dropped the batteries out and put them back in,
> tried a
> >   > > > > > different SD
> >   > > > > > > > card and even upgraded the firmware to 1.01.06,
but
> no luck.
> >   > > > > Still
> >   > > > > > > > getting the pixel "trails". I believe the correct
term
> >   > > > > > is "noise", and
> >   > > > > > > > it is visible in the LCD viewfinder and screen.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Thanks for letting me bend your ears. =8^)
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Regards,
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Jay
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Mc
Kee"
> >   > > > > <NWTSPM@m...>
> >   > > > > > wrote:
> >   > > > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Something unusual and apparently irreversible
happened
> >   to my
> >   > > > > 850
> >   > > > > > > > this last weekend. I'm attaching a couple of
photos
> (if this
> >   > > > > Yahoo
> >   > > > > > > > Group accepts attached photos) to show the problem
> and the
> >   > > > > point
> >   > > > > > where
> >   > > > > > > > it started happening.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Other that a single dead pixel, my 850 has been
> >   > performing as
> >   > > > > > > > expected since I purchased it new in September
2003.
> Now it
> >   > > > > > appears I
> >   > > > > > > > have pixels that fail when they are called upon to
> render
> >   > > > > certain
> >   > > > > > > > colors. It's so weird it's hard to explain in
words
> >   > therefore I
> >   > > > > > hope
> >   > > > > > > > some examples can speak for me.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > The image that appears to have started the
problem was
> >   > taken
> >   > > > > > with
> >   > > > > > > > flash on under the dark canopy of a tree. The tree
> actually
> >   > > > > > touched
> >   > > > > > > > the ground most of the way around and created a
heavily
> >   shaded
> >   > > > > > > > (somewhat dark) "cave". I shot a picture (first
image #
> >   5434)
> >   > > > > > under
> >   > > > > > > > this tree while the camera was in the shade and
pointed
> >   in the
> >   > > > > > > > direction of the Sun. There was a bright spot of
sky
> >   peeking
> >   > > > > > through
> >   > > > > > > > the canopy near the center of the scene at the
> instant the
> >   > > > > shutter
> >   > > > > > > > snapped. The flash also fired on that shot. The
Sun
> wasn't
> >   > > > > shining
> >   > > > > > > > into the camera at all, but it would appear that
> particular
> >   > > > > > condition
> >   > > > > > > > was more than the camera could handle. I took two
> >   pictures in
> >   > > > > that
> >   > > > > > > > lighting condition and the flash fired both
times. I had
> >   > no idea
> >   > > > > > > > something serious had happned to the camera.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Now every image taken by this particular camera
> from that
> >   > > > > point
> >   > > > > > > > onward has this weird discoloration peppering
random
> areas.
> >   > > > > It's
> >   > > > > > not
> >   > > > > > > > just the images, but the problem can be seen in
the
> >   viewfinder
> >   > > > > as
> >   > > > > > > > well! (see images # 5478, 5478-Crop & 5487) The
> problem is
> >   > more
> >   > > > > > > > noticable in brightly lit scenes, and somewhat
harder to
> >   > detect
> >   > > > > in
> >   > > > > > > > dimmer scenes.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > I've pulled the batteries out several times and
> cycled the
> >   > > > > power
> >   > > > > > > > switch (with batteries out) and nothing seems to
> solve the
> >   > > > > > problem. I
> >   > > > > > > > have a bad feeling the camera is ruined.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Has anybody encountered or seen this problem
before
> >   with an
> >   > > > > > 850? (or
> >   > > > > > > > any other digital camera for that matter?)
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Is my 850 ruined?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > My 850 I'm sure is out of warranty at this
point.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Any thoughts, ideas, technical insights or
> recommendations
> >   > > > > are
> >   > > > > > most
> >   > > > > > > > welcome.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Regards,
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Jay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   SPONSORED LINKS Digital wedding
> photography<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+wedding+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=L
earn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+pho
tography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+course
&c=6&s=188&.sig=Umur-3rsLOic7dZMwVL94w>
>  Learn digital
> photography<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Learn+digital+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=Lea
rn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+photo
graphy&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+course&c
=6&s=188&.sig=emApqtvj0kHQhppIzRrNgw>
>  Digital photography
> college<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+college&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=L
earn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+pho
tography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+course
&c=6&s=188&.sig=aIiABJLTZsUnmWBs4mZwuA>
>
> >         Digital
> photography<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=Learn+dig
ital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+photography
&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+course&c=6&s=1
88&.sig=pJmwqgVzec3JGBtWYlPbOg>
>  Digital photography web
> site<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+web+site&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=
Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+ph
otography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+cours
e&c=6&s=188&.sig=BMII8rtDZlAtVdZsPhaZqw>
>  Digital photography
> course<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+wedding+photography&w2=Le
arn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+college&w4=Digital+phot
ography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photography+course&
c=6&s=188&.sig=OrnrutXVhHZu-7E7ccLtuw>
>
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >     a..  Visit your group
> "Photosmart_850<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Photosmart_850>" on
the web.
> >
> >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> Photosmart_850-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Photosmart_850-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>

Two ways of copying the files, use the camera as a drive via USB
cable, or more easily, copy the files to your SD chip via a card
reader either attached or built-in to your desktop/notebook computer.

Then follow the insutuctions on this list under

Files ==> readme.html

-----

WARNING! -- All warranties on the HP 850 have expired (including any
extended plans).  So, make sure you have a fresh set of fully charged
batteries if you insist on upgrading the firmware on this camera.  If
the camera works fine without the upgrade, then I suggest NOT fixing
it.  If the batteries die during the update, you may be out of luck on
reviving it.

Only fix it if you are using firmware version 1.01.03 (.04 & .05
should work fine in most cases unless you cannot read your MMC card).
  To tell what version your camera has:  While holding down the Flash
button, turn the camera on.  This will put you into diagnostics mode,
and can test the camera if you desire in addition to a bunch of other
informations.

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "steve" <sjp_30188@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me how to install the 1.1.6 firmware on a photosmart
> 850? I ve downloaded from HPs website etc but how do I get the software
> on the camera? I see hints about somehow being able to move the col3929
> software to the SD memory on the camera, but how?
> Lets presume Im an idiot, (maybe not wrong here)
> can someone tell me step 1 thru step x?
> Steve Phillips
>

Can anyone tell me how to install the 1.1.6 firmware on a photosmart
850? I ve downloaded from HPs website etc but how do I get the software
on the camera? I see hints about somehow being able to move the col3929
software to the SD memory on the camera, but how?
Lets presume Im an idiot, (maybe not wrong here)
can someone tell me step 1 thru step x?
Steve Phillips

Hi Rick,

It is highly recommended to format a memory card inside the device
being used.  Remember SD cards can be used for more devices then
digital cameras.  I did have a problem with my DSLR memory card until
I formatted it inside the camera.  Now I format it every time I take
my images off the camera.  It's good practice to do so.

With memory cards being so cheap these days, it's not a bad idea to
load up.  My wife bought 3 one GB cards for about $50 on special at
Best Buy recently.

There are other solution as well.  The data storage device below is
like a mini laptop holding 60 GB and can play videos and music:

http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/s.nl/it.A/id.1208/.f

There are cheaper devices for around $100 that can store data by have
no image viewer.  I bought one called Digital Photo Library (20GB) at
Radio Shack for about $120 a few years ago.

These devices, as does the Vosonic device I linked above, can store
the transfered data from your memory card, allowing you to delete the
images and start fresh ready to load it up again.

Steve

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "rick1638" <rick1638@...>
wrote:
>
> My questions are:
> Should the new 2 Gig work in the 850 right out of the box or would
I  have to reformat it for the camera?
> Should I reformat it IN the 850 if I need to reformat or just on
the PC?
> Would it be best to reformat it anyway - even if it works in the
850? Should I reformat the 512 Meg card also?
>
> I want to be sure it is reliable.  My wife will take a lot of
> pictures and if I give her a nice new high capacity card and it
dumps her pictures the next posting might be my obituary (not really
but I would not live it down for a very long time).
>
> I will be trying the card for a couple weeks to see how it works
> before she goes but I want to be sure it is setup in the most
> reliable way.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>

The camera can use either formatting.  I have used the default
formatting on the card as purchased.  The HP850/945 is a lot slower
than the slowest cards on the market, so don't buy a high-speed card
for a premium, unless you plan on upgrading your camera in the next
year or two.

Also don't buy SDHC (4GB or more) as these cards won't work, unless
formatted by the camera, it then it will only be 2GB formatted, the
excess capacity will be a waste of space & money.

One last thing, when 256MB cards were selling at $70, I made a three
week trip to Hawaii, and took nearly 2000 photos on six (6) 256MB
cards totalling 1.5GB.  I did it by reducing the quality settings of
the photos.  For the exception of photos taken at dawn and dusk there
is no visible difference in photos taken on ** (better) versus ***
(best) setting, and there is a significant savings in card space, not
to mention they transfer more quickly to a computer.

I also find it hard to believe that an artist's class wouldn't have a
computer with at least a CD+/-R or a DVD+/-R drive in it (which can
also write to CD-R's, or a quick stop at an Internet Cafe (everywhere
in Europe, averages around $6/hr).  It would be very easy to back-up
photos to a few CD-R's mid-way if she is running low on card space.
Approximately 500 ** (better) quality photos per CD.  Be sure to have
your USB cable _OR_ a USB SD card reader ($0 to $20 from on-line
merchants) with you if you are going to do this.

Thank you Arjan.
This gives me more confidence using the 2 Gig.
I will try using the 2 Gig and the 512 without formatting.  If I have
any trouble I will reformat in the 850.

Thanks, Rick

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, Arjan Kleppe
<denaamisarjan@...> wrote:
>
>  My questions are:
>  Should the new 2 Gig work in the 850 right out of the box or would
I
>  have to reformat it for the camera?
>  Should I reformat it IN the 850 if I need to reformat or just on
the
>  PC?
>  Would it be best to reformat it anyway - even if it works in the
850?
>  Should I reformat the 512 Meg card also?
>
> i'm using also a 2 gig Sd card and i didn't had to format it, the
card works out of the box.
> if you format some cards i should do it in the photosmart.
> if you can backup the pictures i should also format the 512 meg
card.
>
> -Arjan
>
> rick1638 <rick1638@...> wrote:                                  I
have been using a 256 meg sd memory card in my 850 for over 3 years
>  now with no problems.  Now my wife is about to go overseas for 3
>  weeks with a group of artists for a class.  Needless to say she is
>  planning to take a lot of pictures and the 256 meg would be full
in a
>  couple days.  I have been using a 512 meg card for work and was
going
>  to clean it off plus get another 512 new for her to use (she has
no
>  way of dumping the pictures to other media while there).  I just
>  found out how hard it is to find anything as LOW as 512 meg now
>  (Fry's only had 1 in stock and it was a return).  I went ahead and
>  got a 2 Gig card (on a good sale) when I went to lunch, with the
>  hopes it will work in the 850.
>
>  As soon as I got back to work I jumped back on this site (havn't
been
>  here for a while) and I noticed the post (3 posts back - from in
>  December) questioning the 256 card that didn't work.  Thankfully,
I
>  saw the comment that up to 2 Gig will work in the 850.  This set
my
>  mind at ease until the comment about formating it to fat16.
>
>  My questions are:
>  Should the new 2 Gig work in the 850 right out of the box or would
I
>  have to reformat it for the camera?
>  Should I reformat it IN the 850 if I need to reformat or just on
the
>  PC?
>  Would it be best to reformat it anyway - even if it works in the
850?
>  Should I reformat the 512 Meg card also?
>
>  I want to be sure it is reliable.  My wife will take a lot of
>  pictures and if I give her a nice new high capacity card and it
dumps
>  her pictures the next posting might be my obituary (not really but
I
>  would not live it down for a very long time).
>
>  I will be trying the card for a couple weeks to see how it works
>  before she goes but I want to be sure it is setup in the most
>  reliable way.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less,
sign up for your freeaccount today.
>

I have been using a 256 meg sd memory card in my 850 for over 3 years
now with no problems. Now my wife is about to go overseas for 3
weeks with a group of artists for a class. Needless to say she is
planning to take a lot of pictures and the 256 meg would be full in a
couple days. I have been using a 512 meg card for work and was going
to clean it off plus get another 512 new for her to use (she has no
way of dumping the pictures to other media while there). I just
found out how hard it is to find anything as LOW as 512 meg now
(Fry's only had 1 in stock and it was a return). I went ahead and
got a 2 Gig card (on a good sale) when I went to lunch, with the
hopes it will work in the 850.

As soon as I got back to work I jumped back on this site (havn't been
here for a while) and I noticed the post (3 posts back - from in
December) questioning the 256 card that didn't work. Thankfully, I
saw the comment that up to 2 Gig will work in the 850. This set my
mind at ease until the comment about formating it to fat16.

My questions are:
Should the new 2 Gig work in the 850 right out of the box or would I
have to reformat it for the camera?
Should I reformat it IN the 850 if I need to reformat or just on the
PC?
Would it be best to reformat it anyway - even if it works in the 850?
Should I reformat the 512 Meg card also?

I want to be sure it is reliable. My wife will take a lot of
pictures and if I give her a nice new high capacity card and it dumps
her pictures the next posting might be my obituary (not really but I
would not live it down for a very long time).

I will be trying the card for a couple weeks to see how it works
before she goes but I want to be sure it is setup in the most
reliable way.

Thanks,
Rick

I have been using a 256 meg sd memory card in my 850 for over 3 years
now with no problems.  Now my wife is about to go overseas for 3
weeks with a group of artists for a class.  Needless to say she is
planning to take a lot of pictures and the 256 meg would be full in a
couple days.  I have been using a 512 meg card for work and was going
to clean it off plus get another 512 new for her to use (she has no
way of dumping the pictures to other media while there).  I just
found out how hard it is to find anything as LOW as 512 meg now
(Fry's only had 1 in stock and it was a return).  I went ahead and
got a 2 Gig card (on a good sale) when I went to lunch, with the
hopes it will work in the 850.

As soon as I got back to work I jumped back on this site (havn't been
here for a while) and I noticed the post (3 posts back - from in
December) questioning the 256 card that didn't work.  Thankfully, I
saw the comment that up to 2 Gig will work in the 850.  This set my
mind at ease until the comment about formating it to fat16.

My questions are:
Should the new 2 Gig work in the 850 right out of the box or would I
have to reformat it for the camera?
Should I reformat it IN the 850 if I need to reformat or just on the
PC?
Would it be best to reformat it anyway - even if it works in the 850?
Should I reformat the 512 Meg card also?

I want to be sure it is reliable.  My wife will take a lot of
pictures and if I give her a nice new high capacity card and it dumps
her pictures the next posting might be my obituary (not really but I
would not live it down for a very long time).

I will be trying the card for a couple weeks to see how it works
before she goes but I want to be sure it is setup in the most
reliable way.

Thanks,
Rick

MODERATORS NOTE: I'm allowing this off topic post as some may find it quite
valuable. If anyone feels post like this should not be shared with the group,
please let me know.  Steve
______________________________________________________________________

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Best,

Nik
President, FullSizePosters.com
sales@...

I'd like to thank both of you who have replied to my questions.
It's great to see there is still interest in a camera that is out of
production for quite a while now. (In digital years that is)

"YES" I did use fresh out-of-the-wrapper batteries when trying to
install the new firmware.
"NO" I didn't use the original 64MB card, simply because it didn't
come with the camera.

The 256 MB SD card did work fine in my mate's Samsung camera, and
his 128 MB SD is doing fine in the HP 850. So we exchanged cards.
Problem (more or less) solved...

I started photography aged nine, over 41 years ago.
And I've learned a lot since then, including the use of flash.
In those days bulb flashes were common and one had to calculate the
diaphragm by dividing the guide number by the distance . . .

I have tried several ways of having the flash to work:
I tried every flashmode the camera offers,
I tried TV-mode and shutter speeds of 1/30 ... 1/2 ... 1 sec
with no result

the flash DOES fire, but the light isn't detected by the sensor.

What I did notice is that after 20-odd shots, using the flash,
the batteries are dead and need to be replaced.

Perhaps the condensor is defective and draws too much current?

Anyway, this Group has helped me tremendously,
as a person who doesn't want to be named,
has offered me one of his spare 850's.
He promised me to mail it asap, so I am looking forward to
experience how a fully functional HP850 will perform.

regards,
Paul



--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "jgenemans" <jgenemans@...>
wrote:
>
> 1.  If you have a card reader for your PC, try reading it, if you
> cannot read the card, format it to FAT16 for the 256MB card.  The
> camera will read/write to cards up to 2GB in size.  DO NOT USE 4GB
> cards, they will format to a 2GB card.
>
> 2.  What is the range to your subject matter?  Is there any
> discoloration on the flash possibly indicating that it is wearing
out
> (black/brown/yellow spot)?  Anything greater than 20 feet (6m) will
> not illuminate well enough, I've used the onboard flash up to 50
feet
> but that is a lot more than the camera spec.  Also make sure your
> metering is NOT set up on spot, as it will adjust the flash's
power to
> spot metering and if it is bright, the rest of the scene will be
> underexposed.  Is there chrome, mirrors, reflections of the flash
in
> the scene, then the same will happen as well.
>
> 3.  Make sure that you uncompress (extract the files from the
> SIT[Mac]/ZIP[PC] file) the files to the root/top directory/folder
on
> to the original 16MB SD card before turing on the camera with the
> shutter button depressed.  Also when turning on the camera you
need to
> depress the button and keep it depressed.  Once the Power/Memory
light
> starts blinking red, indicating that the firmware is being updated,
> release the Shutter button.
>
> --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <postbus88@> wrote:
> > 1) it doesn't recognise a 256MB SD card,
> >    but works fine with a 128 MB one
> >    so that is not a big issue
>
> > 2) the flash fires OK, but the pictures are dark.
> > I.M.H.O. flash and shutter are out of sync.
> > Is this possible?
> > Is this solvable?
> > (pictures in dark areas are better off without flash ,
> > because with flash they are underexposed, while with no flash at
> > all, they are exposed correctly)
>
> > 3) I've tried to install a new firmware (1.01.06)
> > over the 1.01.05 that is on board,
> > but when trying to start the camera
> > with the shutter button pressed,
> > nothing happens.
>

1.  If you have a card reader for your PC, try reading it, if you
cannot read the card, format it to FAT16 for the 256MB card.  The
camera will read/write to cards up to 2GB in size.  DO NOT USE 4GB
cards, they will format to a 2GB card.

2.  What is the range to your subject matter?  Is there any
discoloration on the flash possibly indicating that it is wearing out
(black/brown/yellow spot)?  Anything greater than 20 feet (6m) will
not illuminate well enough, I've used the onboard flash up to 50 feet
but that is a lot more than the camera spec.  Also make sure your
metering is NOT set up on spot, as it will adjust the flash's power to
spot metering and if it is bright, the rest of the scene will be
underexposed.  Is there chrome, mirrors, reflections of the flash in
the scene, then the same will happen as well.

3.  Make sure that you uncompress (extract the files from the
SIT[Mac]/ZIP[PC] file) the files to the root/top directory/folder on
to the original 16MB SD card before turing on the camera with the
shutter button depressed.  Also when turning on the camera you need to
depress the button and keep it depressed.  Once the Power/Memory light
starts blinking red, indicating that the firmware is being updated,
release the Shutter button.

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <postbus88@...> wrote:
> 1) it doesn't recognise a 256MB SD card,
>    but works fine with a 128 MB one
>    so that is not a big issue

> 2) the flash fires OK, but the pictures are dark.
> I.M.H.O. flash and shutter are out of sync.
> Is this possible?
> Is this solvable?
> (pictures in dark areas are better off without flash ,
> because with flash they are underexposed, while with no flash at
> all, they are exposed correctly)

> 3) I've tried to install a new firmware (1.01.06)
> over the 1.01.05 that is on board,
> but when trying to start the camera
> with the shutter button pressed,
> nothing happens.

A sample shot or two would help.  Can you provide one?

I don't like the sound of #3 in your list.  Did you have a fresh set
of batteries loaded when you attempted to update the firmware.  If so
and it still didn't work, did you try removing the batteries.  I
think a 24 hour battery removal period resets the camera to factory
default.  A new fresh set of batteries may be in order.

The 850 doesn't have a lot of options to change for flash that I
remember.  Here are the choices via DPreview "Flash modes   =   Auto,
On, Off, Auto red-eye, Slow Sync".  Which one is your camera set to?

Here are some ideas when it comes to low light photography:

1) Use a tripod along with shutter priority (TV mode).  Experiment
with 1, 2, 5 second exposures.  This should eliminate the need for
flash altogether.

2) There are inexpensive slave flashes that may work with the 850.  A
slave flash will fire after the on board flash fires theoretically.
I'm not certain of what they may be.  Perhaps someone else can answer.

3) If not using a tripod, you will need faster shutter speed for
handheld shots to avoid camera shake.  Use as wide an angle shot as
possible.  Wide angle shots do not need as fast a shutter speed as a
zoomed shutter using the "1/focal length rule".

4) Use Center weighted or spot metering.  Using average metering will
consider the entire frame of the shot, including the dark areas.
Normally you are mostly interested in the subject of the shot.  Use a
different metering mode may produced better exposed shots, depending
on what you want exposed properly in the shot.

Hope this helps!

Steve

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <postbus88@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> My recently purchased 2nd hand HP 850 seems to be OK,
> except for two or three problems:
> 1) it doesn't recognise a 256MB SD card,
>    but works fine with a 128 MB one
>    so that is not a big issue
>
> more importantly:
> 2) the flash fires OK, but the pictures are dark.
> I.M.H.O. flash and shutter are out of sync.
> Is this possible?
> Is this solvable?
> (pictures in dark areas are better off without flash ,
> because with flash they are underexposed, while with no flash at
> all, they are exposed correctly)
>
> 3) I've tried to install a new firmware (1.01.06)
> over the 1.01.05 that is on board,
> but when trying to start the camera
> with the shutter button pressed,
> nothing happens.
>
> Any advise or cure is welcomed with open arms.
>

Hello everyone,

My recently purchased 2nd hand HP 850 seems to be OK,
except for two or three problems:
1) it doesn't recognise a 256MB SD card,
    but works fine with a 128 MB one
    so that is not a big issue

more importantly:
2) the flash fires OK, but the pictures are dark.
I.M.H.O. flash and shutter are out of sync.
Is this possible?
Is this solvable?
(pictures in dark areas are better off without flash ,
because with flash they are underexposed, while with no flash at
all, they are exposed correctly)

3) I've tried to install a new firmware (1.01.06)
over the 1.01.05 that is on board,
but when trying to start the camera
with the shutter button pressed,
nothing happens.

Any advise or cure is welcomed with open arms.

The photos that you refer to are in the photo's section under 'Broken
Battery Door.'

http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Photosmart_850/photos/browse/ea8a

The HP850, is a good camera, it is now a spare for me as I am using
the Pany FZ30.



--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, Outlaw <cmx45@...> wrote:
>
> I believe this topic was discussed before. perhaps you
> could check the older postings. if memory serves me
> right someone even uploaded a picture of the broken
> door.
> Mine also broke but i was able to superglue it
> together since support from HP is nonexistend here for
> these items.  HP onlay wants to send you an
> (expensive) refurbished camera. Perhaps you can order
> spareparts in the usa from hp. i believe there was a
> page on the hp site that had numbers for spareparts
> for these camera's. But again, in europe i could not
> order the simpelest sparepart.
> For me one of the reasons to buy a canon 350d where
> you can order all the spareparts, even a simple
> battery door. The HP850 is now gathering dust i'm
> afraid. but i had a lot of fun with it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Edwin

I believe this topic was discussed before. perhaps you
could check the older postings. if memory serves me
right someone even uploaded a picture of the broken
door.
Mine also broke but i was able to superglue it
together since support from HP is nonexistend here for
these items.  HP onlay wants to send you an
(expensive) refurbished camera. Perhaps you can order
spareparts in the usa from hp. i believe there was a
page on the hp site that had numbers for spareparts
for these camera's. But again, in europe i could not
order the simpelest sparepart.
For me one of the reasons to buy a canon 350d where
you can order all the spareparts, even a simple
battery door. The HP850 is now gathering dust i'm
afraid. but i had a lot of fun with it.

Cheers

Edwin

--- Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Battery Door
>     From: az2bear
>
>
> Message
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> 1. Battery Door
>     Posted by: "az2bear" az2bear@... az2bear
>     Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:55 pm (PDT)
>
> My camera has the tabs broken off the case but the
> door is good.  Does
> any one know where I can get a case.  My camera
> woorks real good and I
> don't have the problems that I read about on this
> site with it.  Any
> help is appreaceated.
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (1)
>
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__________________________________________________
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Might I suggest e-bay looking for a 'parts' / 'as-is' camera that way
you can use the parts on it to replace it on yours that has some other
more common damage (stuck lens is most prevalent).

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "az2bear" <az2bear@...> wrote:
>
> My camera has the tabs broken off the case but the door is good.  Does
> any one know where I can get a case.  My camera woorks real good and I
> don't have the problems that I read about on this site with it.  Any
> help is appreaceated.
> Thanks,
> Steve
>

My camera has the tabs broken off the case but the door is good.  Does
any one know where I can get a case.  My camera woorks real good and I
don't have the problems that I read about on this site with it.  Any
help is appreaceated.
Thanks,
Steve

Awesome shots!

thanks for trying ,,,shot in the dark i know..could be
rotarty club good tip thanks man.....olin

--- b0swelox <fjp@...> wrote:

> That's a lovely old photo, but as you say, the text
> is not exactly
> readable. That seems to be a fairly low-res scan, so
> I assume the
> original print isn't available?
>
> I doubt that anyone could recover the small text, so
> I should post it
> on Flickr as Steve suggested, to see if anyone
> recognises the place
> or the people.
>
> Is that a Rotary Club symbol in the middle?
>
> James
>
> --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, o williams
> <bronc88@...> wrote:
> >
> > hey thanks.,see what you can do.
> >
> > --- b0swelox <fjp@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Please do - my email address should be visible.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com,
> "willfind1"
> > > <bronc88@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ok i understand. I could send you the pic if
> you
> > > like to see what I
> > > > mean. thanks
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

That's a lovely old photo, but as you say, the text is not exactly
readable. That seems to be a fairly low-res scan, so I assume the
original print isn't available?

I doubt that anyone could recover the small text, so I should post it
on Flickr as Steve suggested, to see if anyone recognises the place
or the people.

Is that a Rotary Club symbol in the middle?

James

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, o williams <bronc88@...> wrote:
>
> hey thanks.,see what you can do.
>
> --- b0swelox <fjp@...> wrote:
>
> > Please do - my email address should be visible.
> >
> > James
> >
> > --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "willfind1"
> > <bronc88@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ok i understand. I could send you the pic if you
> > like to see what I
> > > mean. thanks
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

hey thanks.,see what you can do.

--- b0swelox <fjp@...> wrote:

> Please do - my email address should be visible.
>
> James
>
> --- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "willfind1"
> <bronc88@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > ok i understand. I could send you the pic if you
> like to see what I
> > mean. thanks
> >
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Please do - my email address should be visible.

James

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "willfind1" <bronc88@...>
wrote:
>
> ok i understand. I could send you the pic if you like to see what I
> mean. thanks
>

You can put the photo here where all can see and potentially help:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/hpbigzoom/

You can either join Flickr and join the group or send the photo to me
where I can upload the image for you.  Hers' how to join Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/

Steve

--- In Photosmart_850@yahoogroups.com, "willfind1" <bronc88@...> wrote:
>
> ok i understand. I could send you the pic if you like to see what I
> mean. thanks
>

ok i understand. I could send you the pic if you like to see what I
mean. thanks