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#7217 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Moon, Mayans, and Longitude aumsparky
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my thought is that gravity pulls the same face of the moon to earth, so that it appears to make one rpm in an orbit. this seems peculiar, if as i recall, the moon remelted several times, and stratified in layers according to mass, that will make mining easy. if this was the case, either side would be equally attracted to earth.

mike

----- Original Message -----

From: Pamela Giese

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:45 AM

Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: Moon, Mayans, and Longitude

for those of us who really need a picture, there's a nice animation of the moon's orbit around the earth with the earth's around the sun at: http://www.tortuga.com/www/animations/anim_moon.htm

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#7218 From: "Joseph" <oxyrhino@...>
Date: Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:16 pm
Subject: Re: Moon, Mayans, and Longitude oxyrhino
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--- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white"
<infoplz@c...> wrote:
>
> my thought is that gravity pulls the same face of the moon to
> earth, so that it appears to make one rpm in an orbit.  this
> seems peculiar, if as i recall, the moon remelted several times,
> and stratified in layers according to mass, that will make mining
> easy.  if this was the case, either side would be equally
> attracted to earth.

I seem to recall that Mercury does the same thing, in that it keeps
one face toward the sun as it orbits. But don't quote me on that. The
last Astronomy class I took was in 1971. :)

Joseph

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#7219 From: jdaintira@...
Date: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Moon, Mayans, and Longitude jdaintira
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In a message dated 8/27/2005 3:17:14 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, oxyrhino@... writes:

I seem to recall that Mercury does the same thing, in that it keeps
one face toward the sun as it orbits

Yes, that is correct. ~JM

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#7220 From: Marmot <marmot@...>
Date: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ancient Waterways iyeshkah
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I went to Horseshoe Canyon in the 70's back when one could camp there, it would be nice to return, roads are better I've heard, though in winter they can be very slick and sticky if wet. The Fremont style of rock art is very spooky and mystical in appearance. I spent a lot of time bumming around the southwest when in my 20's. Back then one could find large pieces of broken pots at some of the isolated Anasazi structures in the backcountry as well as small corn cobs and fragments of woven material of yucca and juniper.

In the mid 60's I had the good fortune to live in Germany for 3 years north of Trier, lots of artifacts from all ages laying around in the woods near where we lived. Found Roman pottery pieces and a coin and lots of remnants from World War 2, some of it still dangerous. There was a Celtic fort and grave mounds in the area where a friend lived above the Mosel River, never found anything though.

I went with my family to Norway during that time and met family still living in the Hallingdal area. Never saw the stone ship when we traveled out toward the fijords but saw the Viking ships in the museum near Oslo http://www.khm.uio.no/english/viking_ship_museum/index.shtml and the Kon Tiki. I saw in a museum of regional architecture a home where my Great Grandmother worked as a maid in her early teens, primitive so I can imagine her home much worse, I can see why she came to the states. During the same time period we went to England and I got to walk among the monoliths of Stonehenge. I must admit to drinking a bit of beer and good Mosel wine back then even though very underage. On a trip to Europe in '90 I got to see some of the megaliths of France and Portugal, and once again walk in the forest of my old stomping ground in Germany, visit old friends, and drink some of that good beer and wine.

Found this an interesting site on the Norse travel in the new world:
http://www.spirasolaris.ca/sbb4g1av.html

Marti

mike white wrote:

hi marti, all

   if you get a chance, go see the horseshoe canyon pictoglyphs in utah. they are most unusual. edgar cayce spoke of drawings painted in this area 10 million years ago, and said they could still be seen. i reviewed the petroglyphs of the entire area, and these seem to be the most likely candidates.   the style are found only in certain isolated places of high ground that i think date from a time when only these areas were above the sea. san rafael swell is another location for this style.   tall brooding figures wearing long black robes.

   i never got an opportunity yet to visit these select areas in person. in 1986 i toured the southwest, but concentrated upon the anazasi ruins and cliff dwellings on that trip.

   i visited bergen norway like susan, back in 1965, but never saw the petrified viking boat that susan reported. i did drink lots of local beer. lol

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#7221 From: Amelia Vera <jornalcomplet@...>
Date: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:36 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Ancient Waterways/William jornalcomplet
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Me too, sorry; becouse I�m stay in Miami; and think how do I do to at the winter.

Marmot <marmot@...> escribi�:

William,
I'm just a curious soul, not making any serious study of anything related to the topics of these groups. The conference looks fascinating but I won't be going, too far away and I'll still be tied down to work, but thanks for asking. At best I hope to spend a little time doing some relaxed wandering in the canyons of southern Utah in late winter.

Marti

William M Smith wrote:

Marti it seems you and I are studying the same subject. Are you going to the conference? best regards William

Correo Yahoo!
Comprueba qu� es nuevo, aqu�
http://correo.yahoo.es

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#7222 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:29 am
Subject: fremont drawings aumsparky
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hi marti, all

sounds like you are widely traveled. it adds so much to a person's perspective.

isnt it peculiar that the 'fremont' sites are all located within the highlands that are said to have been the earlier lands above the sea in north america. to conclude the later date for that culture, we must wonder why they chose only those sites to leave their petroglyphs, when such a wider expanse of territory was available to them. without reliable evidence to hold to fremont times, i prefer to leave open the possibility that these drawings may represent a much earlier people.

so many cultures seem to have had dates carelessly assigned to them, that need to be challenged for truth.

mike

----- Original Message -----

From: Marmot

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: Ancient Waterways

I went to Horseshoe Canyon in the 70's back when one could camp there, it would be nice to return, roads are better I've heard, though in winter they can be very slick and sticky if wet. The Fremont style of rock art is very spooky and mystical in appearance. I spent a lot of time bumming around the southwest when in my 20's. Back then one could find large pieces of broken pots at some of the isolated Anasazi structures in the backcountry as well as small corn cobs and fragments of woven material of yucca and juniper.

In the mid 60's I had the good fortune to live in Germany for 3 years north of Trier, lots of artifacts from all ages laying around in the woods near where we lived. Found Roman pottery pieces and a coin and lots of remnants from World War 2, some of it still dangerous. There was a Celtic fort and grave mounds in the area where a friend lived above the Mosel River, never found anything though.

I went with my family to Norway during that time and met family still living in the Hallingdal area. Never saw the stone ship when we traveled out toward the fijords but saw the Viking ships in the museum near Oslo http://www.khm.uio.no/english/viking_ship_museum/index.shtml and the Kon Tiki. I saw in a museum of regional architecture a home where my Great Grandmother worked as a maid in her early teens, primitive so I can imagine her home much worse, I can see why she came to the states. During the same time period we went to England and I got to walk among the monoliths of Stonehenge. I must admit to drinking a bit of beer and good Mosel wine back then even though very underage. On a trip to Europe in '90 I got to see some of the megaliths of France and Portugal, and once again walk in the forest of my old stomping ground in Germany, visit old friends, and drink some of that good beer and wine.

Found this an interesting site on the Norse travel in the new world:
http://www.spirasolaris.ca/sbb4g1av.html

Marti

mike white wrote:

hi marti, all

   if you get a chance, go see the horseshoe canyon pictoglyphs in utah. they are most unusual. edgar cayce spoke of drawings painted in this area 10 million years ago, and said they could still be seen. i reviewed the petroglyphs of the entire area, and these seem to be the most likely candidates.   the style are found only in certain isolated places of high ground that i think date from a time when only these areas were above the sea. san rafael swell is another location for this style.   tall brooding figures wearing long black robes.

   i never got an opportunity yet to visit these select areas in person. in 1986 i toured the southwest, but concentrated upon the anazasi ruins and cliff dwellings on that trip.

   i visited bergen norway like susan, back in 1965, but never saw the petrified viking boat that susan reported. i did drink lots of local beer. lol

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#7223 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:00 am
Subject: norse - vikings aumsparky
Send Email

the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

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#7224 From: "David H. Sandlin" <magus_18.geo@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:53 am
Subject: Re: norse - vikings magus_18.geo
Send Email

"i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar."

Why would you think this?

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#7225 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:03 am
Subject: Re: norse - vikings aumsparky
Send Email

its just my opinion. i invite you to read about early magyar developement of runic writing, and come to your own conclusion. there are reports of magyar runes long before the viking age. it began as carving on a stick. the stick was squared, the four sides forming the lines above and below the runes. they were read down one side, then up the next. we have some good links in our group links under 'alphabets and scripts'. it cannot be proven or denied without more research and further excavations, but it seems the most reasonable to place rune use first by the magyar, then later by the vikings. it required lots of reading to conclude this, and no single link or citation can be convincing to another.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: David H. Sandlin

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

"i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar."

Why would you think this?

DS

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#7226 From: william smith <wmsmithrock1@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:05 am
Subject: Re: norse - vikings wmsmithrock1
Send Email

Hi Mike

I find your post interesting. Most sites identified as early viking sites in Scandanavia have not been verified as to age. Most have not even been excavated. The Ales Stenar site in Sweeden was dated in 1995. At the site was found an urn with food and bone fragments is C-14 dated ca 500 AD, the fire-place to 3,300-3,600 B.C.

This makes this site approximately 1000 years older than the pyrmids of Egypt. Many of these sites do have carvings that are sun god symbols. Similar to those identified by the late Berry Fell in his book America B.C.

I will attempt to attach a picture with information on Ales Stenar. I will also try to post them in photos section.

best regards

William

ps; are you going to the conference in Michigan in October?

   its just my opinion. i invite you to read about early magyar developement of runic writing, and come to your own conclusion. there are reports of magyar runes long before the viking age. it began as carving on a stick. the stick was squared, the four sides forming the lines above and below the runes. they were read down one side, then up the next. we have some good links in our group links under 'alphabets and scripts'. it cannot be proven or denied without more research and further excavations, but it seems the most reasonable to place rune use first by the magyar, then later by the vikings. it required lots of reading to conclude this, and no single link or citation can be convincing to another.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: David H. Sandlin

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

"i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar."

Why would you think this?

DS

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

   the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

   is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#7227 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:39 am
Subject: Re: norse - vikings aumsparky
Send Email

hi william, all

i have no plans to attend the conference at this time. i will take it easy, and fully recover from the surgery until mid sept. then its important that i take a trip south, and try to buy a house between franklin nc and atlanta ga, in the mountain region. i will be taking my adult son to china in early march.

my mind is boggled by ogam, and i know nothing about it, except there are many diverse forms of it. i address this thought to those more capable of determining if it has any merit. im wondering if some standing stones are making a statement in ogam? this idea came to me by examining the photos that you attached of the standing stones outlining the boat shape in sweden. it occurred to me that the lean of some of these stones was planned at construction, and not the result of the vagaries of time. they were intended to be leaning, some to the left, others to the right, some taller, some shorter. could a message be encoded in this manner, possibly ogam? just a wild idea that came to me.

i plan on finishing my current book review, then begin the interesting book by charles hapgood, titled 'mystery in acambaro', reprinted by childress' AUP.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: william smith

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Cc: thor-thehuntersohiorock@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:05 AM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

Hi Mike

   I find your post interesting. Most sites identified as early viking sites in Scandanavia have not been verified as to age. Most have not even been excavated. The Ales Stenar site in Sweeden was dated in 1995. At the site was found an urn with food and bone fragments is C-14 dated ca 500 AD, the fire-place to 3,300-3,600 B.C.

   This makes this site approximately 1000 years older than the pyrmids of Egypt. Many of these sites do have carvings that are sun god symbols. Similar to those identified by the late Berry Fell in his book America B.C.

   I will attempt to attach a picture with information on Ales Stenar. I will also try to post them in photos section.

best regards

William

ps; are you going to the conference in Michigan in October?

   its just my opinion. i invite you to read about early magyar developement of runic writing, and come to your own conclusion. there are reports of magyar runes long before the viking age. it began as carving on a stick. the stick was squared, the four sides forming the lines above and below the runes. they were read down one side, then up the next. we have some good links in our group links under 'alphabets and scripts'. it cannot be proven or denied without more research and further excavations, but it seems the most reasonable to place rune use first by the magyar, then later by the vikings. it required lots of reading to conclude this, and no single link or citation can be convincing to another.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: David H. Sandlin

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

"i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar."

Why would you think this?

DS

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

   the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

   is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#7228 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:34 am
Subject: Re: Re: book review : brine's "ancient earthworks and temples ..." [my musings] aumsparky
Send Email

p303

a solitary bird thought to be a species of nightingale, found only at palenque, sang its wonderful song, only during the twilight of sunset, and at dawn.

palenque : southwest angle of the 'monastery', there was a building atop a mound, thought to be a school for reading hieroglyphs. [it may be the best place for moderns to begin such a study, since the 'inner walls were covered with hieroglyphs'.] brine visited here in 1870. [victory and burial stele are not apt to give much insight into the script. the language is probably quiche or near modern mayan. it would be the first assumption that i would make to test any script transliteration. no doubt there were many dialects spoken over the ages, so a match would just be which has the greatest number of root word matches, like man, woman, live, die, tree, sky, earth, mother, father. mama and papa got around. the group has a few professional linguists, who would know better of this. we are lucky that the job of connecting the americas is made easier, in that living people still speak mayan, quiche, and quechuan. i would like to know if these common root words have considerable close matches, between these languages, as they changed from 3114 bce, until modern times? is it enough to conclude that they all may be the same language, at a different stage of expression, during the over 5,000 year period? thats the beauty of a nice large group of people, from different fields, yet each having a learned opinion, to help us all sort out the truth. so rafael, petusek, who may be bouncing, and others of the members, might know a more confident answer of such a connection. this is an important point to substantiating a migration from south america, to north america, and into asia, as the red mongols. the age of the antiquites, and the ancient density of population centers, leads us to this conclusion. there is little or no evidence of a dense population in china before 2,000 bce, and slight relics of culture or ruins before this date. yet in south america, there are ruins dating at least 12,000 years old, as well as megalithic fortresses that probably date from 40,000 bce. not a clumsy, crude megalithic culture, but a refined, and advanced culture from the same period. this is seen in the architecture and engineering of the stones. making such precise angle cuts, boasts of its creators, who laughed at the hardness of the stone, and the great weight of perhaps 60 tons. current thinking appears to show the red mongolians, coming from asia to populate both american continents, the date drifting around 15,000 bce. asia is the yellow race. everybody knows that. the americas are of the red race. i would like to know when the red mongolians arrived in asia from america? this is square one, to begin writing a more perfect or true history, according to the facts, as well as the mystics. neither china, nor siberia has the equal to tiwanaku in age, without adding those sites hoary with great ages, found along the southern coast of peru. its time people updated their thinking, and what is being written and taught. go see for yourself. which i will do, God permitting, in the near future. if on inspection, the ruins and relics point to different conclusions, i will certainly share any thoughts at that time. im very interested in learning to judge the age of exposure of objects based on the thickness of patina. with some practice i bet a person could tell by a glance at the patina, those of 10,000 bce, 40,000, and i think they will realize that some of these must be tens or hundreds of thousands of years old, since fashioned by cultured man. not primitive cave men. this another important point to establish. it was likely the same in 40,000 bce as it is today, there are every level, from stone age to high-tech advanced, living on earth in different places, at the same time. someone digging on borneo would think the 20th century was stone age. it will soon become difficult to explain how civilization began in the fertle crescent, at a date more recent than the relics of peru. the whole west coast is one long natural museum of the great antiquity of cultured man. far before the paleo times of 3,000 bce, that they base on flint weapons. i think we are outside the box of academia on dating, and the notion that it was a linear ascent from the crude primitive with forward advancements always. the established positions on these points needs revising, imho. im not trying to sell a book, or secure my job tenure - i just seek the simple truth, and to make any contribution that i can to knowledge.]

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (40)

#7229 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:28 am
Subject: Re: Re: book review : brine's "ancient earthworks and temples ..." [my musings] aumsparky
Send Email

palenque : in 1787 there were 13 mounds with buildings upon them. an 1806 spanish survey found 11 temples still standing. in 1840 stephens found only 5 temples not utterly ruined. another report told of dense housing west of the temple complex. [it appears these buildings are not corbelled and narrow like angkor wat, but wide and rectangular expanses.]

'in front of one of the temples i saw a large and rudely carved statue' thought to be of quetzalcoatl. over 8 ft tall. 'forehead was low and straight'.

depicted natives 'have receding foreheads' likened of the flatheads or dolichocephalic. 'unlike the present races in central america'.

'it has been surmised that the temples of palenque were erected not exceeding four centuries before the spanish conquest.' partly based on the 'freshness of portions of the colouring of the stucco.'

'a thick casing of cement, which was so hard and sound, that it is evident the builders must have had an accurate knowledge of the best proportions'. they used 'red, blue, yellow and white'. buildings were made of limestone rubble and mortar.

the lintels had been made of zapote wood, known as iron wood, all had disappeared but one lintel.

an interpretation of the hieroglyphs of palenque was made by professor charles rau to the 'smithsonian contributions to knowledge, published in 1879.' dots are one, bars are ten, 'read from left to right, and from the top downwards'.

'therefore it is not expected that any more discoveries of importance will be made'. 1870

at san domingo dr coller charted 11 mounds on the left bank of the usamacinta.

natives told brine that 'alligators never attacked people in the water'. [he seemed to buy into that.]

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (40)

#7230 From: "mobydoc" <patcobb@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:06 am
Subject: To Brake or not to Break ! desertducknz...
Send Email

Earth's core runs ahead of crust !!!
The Earth's core is spinning faster than its crust, according to a study by US researchers in Science magazine...

What happens when it runs in synchrony...?

Pat/Moby

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#7231 From: william smith <wmsmithrock1@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:48 am
Subject: Re: norse - vikings wmsmithrock1
Send Email

Hi Mike

Your keen eye is amassing. The large standing stones at Ales Stenar are at each end of the ship. Per the curator the large stone that appears to lean is the main stone when the sun shows the spring and fall solstice. The one with the angle on top at the end is also said to be a sun dial. and is considered the most important stone in the formation. I was only able to spend about 2 hours at the site this fall, however it was long enough to see that the early people were using the same navigation method as those who manufactured the Ohio Rock.

Hope your recovery goes well and a cabin in the hills sounds good. Sorry you are not going to the conference. I just confirmed my attending with 4 other members of my THOR group. We plan on taking the 500 lb rock and the 28 years of research to the conference. This will be the first look the public has at this artifact and its findings. I want you to know the late Berry Fell and his direct support to me in identifying the rock will be recognized.

best regards

William

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

hi william, all

   i have no plans to attend the conference at this time. i will take it easy, and fully recover from the surgery until mid sept. then its important that i take a trip south, and try to buy a house between franklin nc and atlanta ga, in the mountain region. i will be taking my adult son to china in early march.

   my mind is boggled by ogam, and i know nothing about it, except there are many diverse forms of it. i address this thought to those more capable of determining if it has any merit. im wondering if some standing stones are making a statement in ogam? this idea came to me by examining the photos that you attached of the standing stones outlining the boat shape in sweden. it occurred to me that the lean of some of these stones was planned at construction, and not the result of the vagaries of time.   they were intended to be leaning, some to the left, others to the right, some taller, some shorter. could a message be encoded in this manner, possibly ogam? just a wild idea that came to me.

   i plan on finishing my current book review, then begin the interesting book by charles hapgood, titled 'mystery in acambaro', reprinted by childress' AUP.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: william smith

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Cc: thor-thehuntersohiorock@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:05 AM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

Hi Mike

   I find your post interesting. Most sites identified as early viking sites in Scandanavia have not been verified as to age. Most have not even been excavated. The Ales Stenar site in Sweeden was dated in 1995. At the site was found an urn with food and bone fragments is C-14 dated ca 500 AD, the fire-place to 3,300-3,600 B.C.

   This makes this site approximately 1000 years older than the pyrmids of Egypt. Many of these sites do have carvings that are sun god symbols. Similar to those identified by the late Berry Fell in his book America B.C.

   I will attempt to attach a picture with information on Ales Stenar. I will also try to post them in photos section.

best regards

William

ps; are you going to the conference in Michigan in October?

   its just my opinion. i invite you to read about early magyar developement of runic writing, and come to your own conclusion. there are reports of magyar runes long before the viking age. it began as carving on a stick. the stick was squared, the four sides forming the lines above and below the runes. they were read down one side, then up the next. we have some good links in our group links under 'alphabets and scripts'. it cannot be proven or denied without more research and further excavations, but it seems the most reasonable to place rune use first by the magyar, then later by the vikings. it required lots of reading to conclude this, and no single link or citation can be convincing to another.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: David H. Sandlin

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] norse - vikings

"i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar."

Why would you think this?

DS

mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

   the mystics say there were cultured people in scandinavia prior to 10,000 bce. this, of course, is long before viking times, so semantics and assigned named become important as we discuss these times. this is an area of study that few examine, and so little is known. we are left with vague legends of hyperboreans. fantastic tales of the norse under odin. it would be well if we can sort these times and people out. we have the unconfirmed frisian chronicles of the freya nation, that posit this nation as the dominant people circa 10,000 bce. they are said to have been pushed west from their original frontier along the black sea in the east, by the advance of the magyar, shortly after that time. this would account for the early turkic inscriptions found along the coasts. a race of giants was reported by cayce and others in norse lands. norway was often mentioned as an important and world power between 50,000 bce and to 10,000 bce. it may be an error to refer to norse people before the common era as 'vikings'. ancient norway had lands extending across the pole, part in europe and in asia. this was before poleshift changed the climate to so cold. corals have been found in far northern norway from this warm period. its known that much land has been lost to the sea down thru the millennias. i think the vikings adopted the runes of the magyar. most of the early burials, tombs, and tumuli remain unexcavated. they were seafaring mariners from the earliest times. so little is known or even conjectured for this area, that it is difficult to discuss with any certainty, but it is important, and needs reasoned out.

   is it possible for 'viking' boats to become petrified within 2,000 years?

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#7232 From: "mobydoc" <patcobb@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:34 am
Subject: Steve Quayle News Alerts desertducknz...
Send Email

Hy You All;

This might be of interest to those who want to know

some facts ...and then this might not be right ^~^

P/M

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Ancient.Civ_Technol/1997.Mexico.forgot.ruins.html

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#7233 From: Paul Bader <poseidian@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:45 pm
Subject: Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient complex poseidian
Send Email

Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient complex

Technology helps in discovery of site worked since the 1800s

By Benjamin Kline

Dayton Daily News

LEBANON | The Ohio Historical Society has announced the discovery of a circle approximately three feet below grade within its Fort Ancient complex, on a bluff above the Little Miami River, seven miles southeast of Lebanon.

"We assume it's a structure built by the Hopewell culture," said Brad Lepper, curator of archeology at the historical society in Columbus.

Why did prehistoric American Indians build an earthen circle 200 feet in diameter at their Fort Ancient religious center? Was it mounded up, then flattened out? Or was it a ditch that later was filled in? What ceremonies did they hold there?

Archeologists could take years digging for the right answers, beating the drum of scientific inquiry.

Jack Blosser, historical society site manager, said it is amazing that the smaller circle in a corner of the site "remained undetected since the first writing about the site in 1809, mapping in 1820 and 1832, excavations in 1888 through 1891, 1908 and 1939. We'll spend years analyzing this."

Remains of houses, pits and other activities also were discovered in the July-August tests using remote-sensing technology and a magnetometer to show disturbances below the surface.

"A perfect circle," Lepper said excitedly.

Martha Otto, Ohio's top archeologist, said the Fort Ancient circle resembles a structure at the Octagon Earthworks at Newark. The house foundations are being compared to some at the Seip Mound near Chillicothe.

"You might think of this as a shrine inside a larger church," Blosser suggested. "We have no evidence of human sacrifices, but ritual deposits of animal bones have been found. This is a really neat discovery, but it's not like a tomb of golden idols with jade eyes. And it's not a burial mound."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0830ancient.html

Warmest Regards,
Paul Bader
Atlantean Records

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#7234 From: Charles Mattox <charlesmattox@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient complex charlesmattox
Send Email

Paul,
Sounds like a typical Adena sacred circle.
Charles
--- Paul Bader <poseidian@...> wrote:

> Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient
> complexTechnology helps in discovery of site worked
> since the 1800s
> By Benjamin Kline
>
> Dayton Daily News
>
> LEBANON | The Ohio Historical Society has announced
> the discovery of a circle approximately three feet
> below grade within its Fort Ancient complex, on a
> bluff above the Little Miami River, seven miles
> southeast of Lebanon.
>
> "We assume it's a structure built by the Hopewell
> culture," said Brad Lepper, curator of archeology at
> the historical society in Columbus.
>
> Why did prehistoric American Indians build an
> earthen circle 200 feet in diameter at their Fort
> Ancient religious center? Was it mounded up, then
> flattened out? Or was it a ditch that later was
> filled in? What ceremonies did they hold there?
>
> Archeologists could take years digging for the right
> answers, beating the drum of scientific inquiry.
>
> Jack Blosser, historical society site manager, said
> it is amazing that the smaller circle in a corner of
> the site "remained undetected since the first
> writing about the site in 1809, mapping in 1820 and
> 1832, excavations in 1888 through 1891, 1908 and
> 1939. We'll spend years analyzing this."
>
> Remains of houses, pits and other activities also
> were discovered in the July-August tests using
> remote-sensing technology and a magnetometer to show
> disturbances below the surface.
>
> "A perfect circle," Lepper said excitedly.
>
> Martha Otto, Ohio's top archeologist, said the Fort
> Ancient circle resembles a structure at the Octagon
> Earthworks at Newark. The house foundations are
> being compared to some at the Seip Mound near
> Chillicothe.
>
> "You might think of this as a shrine inside a larger
> church," Blosser suggested. "We have no evidence of
> human sacrifices, but ritual deposits of animal
> bones have been found. This is a really neat
> discovery, but it's not like a tomb of golden idols
> with jade eyes. And it's not a burial mound."
>
>
http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0830ancient.htm\
l
>
>
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Paul Bader
> Atlantean Records
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
>  Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
tour


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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#7235 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:31 pm
Subject: kettles aumsparky
Send Email

hi charles, all

we have not forgotten about the 'kettles' of kentucky. these are some of the most important relics showing old world contact with the new in precolumbian times. the huge size and fine workmanship make these stone bowls with covers so unique, and the ancient inscriptions add to the mystery.

what is the story on access to inspect and photograph the bowls? i may want to visit in mid sept. if charles is available to direct me. i wont dig or probe, or disturb.

i dont think the academics have looked close enough at this site. it must be noted that the team who last investigated were not trained as archaeologists, but came from other fields to feed themselves during the depression. they learned as they went, with their last digs the most professional. i think they visited this site early, and had little to say. they never identified the script, or they would have placed greater importance to these relics. its amazing that they were not astounded at the machined look of the finish on these stone bowls. at any rate they dropped the ball on this site.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#7236 From: "William M Smith" <wmsmithrock1@...>
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:36 am
Subject: Re: Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient complex wmsmithrock1
Send Email

Hi Charles, Mike and Paul
   Thanks for this posting. It appears the Ft. Ancient site has a
stone circle like the one at Newark Ohio. Could it be that these
people were using the sun dial to determine their location on earth
in reference to where they came from. When you look at the Hopewell
Road you will see a lot of ancient sites that seem to connect with
the same type of knowledge.
    The Newark site has a circle and in one mound was found the
Newark Keystone (sun dial bob)
    The Ft. Ancient site now has a circle and the oldest people
burried at that site had copper neck ornaments burried with them,
the 4 tribes that lived at that site after the first did not show
any signs of copper artifacts.
    The Kentucky Charles Mattox stone was found in northern Kentucky
and explains a voyage of early man to this area. It also shows the
signs of the function of the sun dial on one side. It is also a bob
used in a sun dial assembly.
     The Ohio Rock found in southern Ohio is a mold for fabricating a
sun dial of copper. One mile from the rock is the location of a
circle of stones and mounds near the town of Manchester that was
used as an early calender site.
    The reason you find circle of stones near these calender sites is
because the early man had to know the day of the equanox in order to
obtain an accurate reading with his sun dial to determine his
location from his home.
    I will be adding some photos to the photo section of this group.
These are part of a presentation I plan on giving at the October
conference in Northern Michigan to explain the use of the early
navigation method used by the early Americans. 3 of these photos
show a total of 17 sun god symbols with their specific information.
One photo will show a world map and when the sun god symbols are
plotted on it using (Smiths theory of early celtic navigation)you
will see how they all have one point on the earth that is common to
all.
    Note that the identification of the Ohio Rock was first
recognized by the late Barry Fell in 1978 as a mold to fabricate a
sun dial for calander use. Thanks to Mr. Fell I have continued 28
years of research and find a link to the sun dial not only being
used as a calander but as a means to determine the travelers
location on the earth from their home. It would be a lot easier to
close the book on this mystery if the home location was not in the
Atlantic Ocean.
    Thanks Mike, Charles and Paul for all your help. I will keep you
posted on the results of the conference and the THOR updates.
best regards
William --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, Charles
Mattox <charlesmattox@y...> wrote:
> Paul,
> Sounds like a typical Adena sacred circle.
> Charles
> --- Paul Bader <poseidian@y...> wrote:
>
> > Mysterious circle found at Fort Ancient
> > complexTechnology helps in discovery of site worked
> > since the 1800s
> > By Benjamin Kline
> >
> > Dayton Daily News
> >
> > LEBANON | The Ohio Historical Society has announced
> > the discovery of a circle approximately three feet
> > below grade within its Fort Ancient complex, on a
> > bluff above the Little Miami River, seven miles
> > southeast of Lebanon.
> >
> > "We assume it's a structure built by the Hopewell
> > culture," said Brad Lepper, curator of archeology at
> > the historical society in Columbus.
> >
> > Why did prehistoric American Indians build an
> > earthen circle 200 feet in diameter at their Fort
> > Ancient religious center? Was it mounded up, then
> > flattened out? Or was it a ditch that later was
> > filled in? What ceremonies did they hold there?
> >
> > Archeologists could take years digging for the right
> > answers, beating the drum of scientific inquiry.
> >
> > Jack Blosser, historical society site manager, said
> > it is amazing that the smaller circle in a corner of
> > the site "remained undetected since the first
> > writing about the site in 1809, mapping in 1820 and
> > 1832, excavations in 1888 through 1891, 1908 and
> > 1939. We'll spend years analyzing this."
> >
> > Remains of houses, pits and other activities also
> > were discovered in the July-August tests using
> > remote-sensing technology and a magnetometer to show
> > disturbances below the surface.
> >
> > "A perfect circle," Lepper said excitedly.
> >
> > Martha Otto, Ohio's top archeologist, said the Fort
> > Ancient circle resembles a structure at the Octagon
> > Earthworks at Newark. The house foundations are
> > being compared to some at the Seip Mound near
> > Chillicothe.
> >
> > "You might think of this as a shrine inside a larger
> > church," Blosser suggested. "We have no evidence of
> > human sacrifices, but ritual deposits of animal
> > bones have been found. This is a really neat
> > discovery, but it's not like a tomb of golden idols
> > with jade eyes. And it's not a burial mound."
> >
> >
>
http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0830
ancient.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Warmest Regards,
> > Paul Bader
> > Atlantean Records
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> >  Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> tour
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#7237 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:12 am
Subject: Re: Re: book review : brine's "ancient earthworks and temples ..." [my musings] aumsparky
Send Email

campeachy : brine got lagoon fever, and was dying, so he got transport away to fresh pure air at tzibalche.

'he told us of a large pyramidal altar or kue'. 'entirely faced with large, squared, well hewn blocks of hard limestone'. 50ft 70 degrees slope.

diaz mentioned seeing silk on yucatan in 1518.

'i listened to the loud, discordant, and grating sounds pronounced by the indians around me. the language spoken was maya, which has been ascertained to be the parent stock of most of the languages and dialects spoken in guatemala, yucatan and the bordering territories.'

p337 is a paragraph in maya, with translation.

he pushed on to uxmal :

'the ruins of uxmal are, in extent and construction, the most important in yucatan, and therefore, exceptingin certain particulars, those at palenque, the most remarkable in central america and mexico.' 600 x 500 yards or about 60 acres. 20 acres bigger than palenque at 40a.

[plz note south america had ancient cities, many as large as 110 sq miles.]

[house of governor may have been a sun temple, and house of nuns, may have been a convent of virgins, just as in peru under the inca. we have kuelap in northern peru. i had expected brine to say that quiche was the root language of mexico and central america - but he concluded it to be maya. one might wonder how far apart maya is to quiche, and quechua. i would pick the last as the parent language. a thread can be traced south in so many things mayan and aztec.]

[after long consideration i have concluded most of the tribes of north america migrated there from south america. im puzzled that this view has so few outspoken adherents. 'out of asia' and the 'beringian walk' is no longer viable as a working hypothesis. ]

i will create a poll, to sample opinion with secret ballot on whether the migration to populate america came from asia or south america. this excludes those late arrivals who left scripts all over the countryside.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

Reply | Messages in this Topic (40)

#7238 From: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:18 am
Subject: Poll results for Precolumbian_Inscriptions Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Send Email

The following Precolumbian_Inscriptions poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE THERE HAS BEEN A GLOBAL DISASTER, THAT HAS
AFFECTED MANKIND?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- YES, 12 votes, 85.71%
- NO, 1 votes, 7.14%
- MAYBE, 1 votes, 7.14%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions

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#7239 From: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:18 am
Subject: Poll results for Precolumbian_Inscriptions Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Send Email

The following Precolumbian_Inscriptions poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: WHAT TYPE OF GLOBAL DISASTER ACCOUNTS FOR THE GREAT
MIGRATIONS, AND THE LOSS OF CIVILIZATION AND RECORDED
HISTORY?  SELECT AS MANY AS APPLY.

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- FLOOD, 9 votes, 31.03%
- METEORITE IMPACT, 6 votes, 20.69%
- POLESHIFT [CRUSTAL SLIDE], 2 votes, 6.90%
- POLESHIFT [AXIS REALIGNMENT], 4 votes, 13.79%
- DESERTIFICATION, 8 votes, 27.59%



For more information about this group, please visit
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#7240 From: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:21 am
Subject: New poll for Precolumbian_Inscriptions Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
Send Email

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
Precolumbian_Inscriptions group:

WHERE DID THE GREATER MIGRATION COME FROM TO POPULATE NORTH
AMERICA?

   o ASIA
   o SOUTH AMERICA
   o OTHER
   o UNKNOWN


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/surveys?id=1955697

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Reply | Messages in this Topic (32)

#7241 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: book review : brine's "ancient earthworks and temples ..." [my musings] aumsparky
Send Email

the taking out the still beating heart, seemed to be common to aztec and maya.

[the stucco decoration of casa de las monjas at uxmal, has such intricate patterns, that it almost looks like possible glyphs to me. ]

[the zapote or ironwood lintels were mostly totally turned to dust, with one sill intact at palenque, and a few zapote wooden roof poles intact at uxmal. maybe these can be carbon 14 dated? perhaps some expert could determine how long such wood takes to rot away in a tropical climate, but protected. its a bit strange that they could mix such a wonderfully hard and durable cement and mortar, yet depend upon wood at such key points in the structures.]

[when i see ruined cities, i always try to determine what were the causes that led to its ruined condition. often its war, and the walls were penetrated, then thrown down, or fire. sometimes, strangely, it looks like the population abandoned them, or all perished, like from disease, and sheer time and rains and winds took their toll, over long ages. often this information is neglected in books, and we only have the images to guide our conclusions. in the many books that ive read about the antiquities of the americas, dates are often assigned to ruins, but the specific reasons for accepting the dating are neglected. one writer cites an earlier investigator, with no basis that can be firmly established. basing any conclusions on assigned dates can lead one far astray of the truth, i suspect.]

in yucatan when first reported by the spaniards in 1518, the pyramids and altars were being fully maintained by the natives. [so we may conclude that the maya were direct descendants of the builders. a great length of time may have elapsed since the temples were erected, so it appears that the culture degraded. im not aware that any monuments had been built by the natives for many centuries before the spanish came to yucatan.]

conquest : 'it was afterwards ascertained that several of the larger sacred temples in the interior had at that time been abandoned, although many of them looked as if they had not been long built.'

'with respect to uxmal, it was considered that the ruins were comparatively modern and belonged to a period but little anterior to the spanish conquest.'

brine : 'well preserved state' was, 'nearly four centuries after the arrival of the spaniards, especially notieable.' [if 400 years had not marred the fresh look, then they may be thousands of years old.]

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

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#7242 From: jdaintira@...
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:53 am
Subject: Re: New poll for Precolumbian_Inscriptions jdaintira
Send Email

In a message dated 8/30/2005 8:21:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com writes:

WHERE DID THE GREATER MIGRATION COME FROM TO POPULATE NORTH
AMERICA?

The question presumes that they came from somewhere else. Perhaps it all started here.

For some reason I never received the posts re the previous two polls, results just released. Sorry to have missed those. ~ JM

Reply | Messages in this Topic (28)

#7243 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:15 am
Subject: Re: New poll for Precolumbian_Inscriptions aumsparky
Send Email

i considered that many began here, so i worded it 'the greater migration', who joined the aborigines.

what about the wood of uxmal judith, can you shine any light upon that from your visits?

mike

----- Original Message -----

From: jdaintira@...

To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:53 AM

Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] New poll for Precolumbian_Inscriptions

In a message dated 8/30/2005 8:21:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com writes:

WHERE DID THE GREATER MIGRATION COME FROM TO POPULATE NORTH
AMERICA?

The question presumes that they came from somewhere else. Perhaps it all started here.

For some reason I never received the posts re the previous two polls, results just released. Sorry to have missed those. ~ JM

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#7244 From: jdaintira@...
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:00 am
Subject: Re: New poll for Precolumbian_Inscriptions jdaintira
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In a message dated 8/30/2005 11:11:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:

what about the wood of uxmal

Not certain what you mean by wood of Uxmal. Probably something else I missed. Sorry. ~JM

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#7245 From: "mike white" <infoplz@...>
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Re: book review : brine's "ancient earthworks and temples ..." [my musings] aumsparky
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'i observed that the wooden lintel over the door of my room in the case del gobernador was in perfect condition.'

'the strength of the wood seem to be unimpaired.'

p347 he tells that many lintels are intact at uxmal. this would indicate that the ruined structures of palenque are older, than those still with intact lintels at uxmal.

[its been 500 years since the conquest now. i wonder how much of the structural zapote wood is still intact at uxmal? from this we may get an idea of how many centuries such wood could endure in a tropical humid climate. i wonder if uxmal's 'ironwood' is the same tree that is called ironwood in brasil? we always hear laments of the loss of plants by the fires of amazonia, but few consider the properties of these countless varieties of trees, that may be lost soon. so far we have exploited the rubber tree and the quinine bark tree, and the brazil nut. ]

the layout of the nunnery, fits that purpose well. 88 cells.

'everything points to the conclusion that the whole of the structures at uxmal were connected with the worship of the gods'.

[brine normally assumes that tribes from the midwest migrated south to build the great cities in mexico.]

there are no clues on how the ancients built these great buildings. 'stone chisels and obsidian scrapers appear to be inadequate for the purpose.'

[the experts are quick to assign recent dates of abandonment, but fail to convince that the natives had the skills necessary to build such structures in recent times.]

brine calls limestone 'hard'.

Kind regards,
Mike White
http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

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#7246 From: jdaintira@...
Date: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:42 am
Subject: Wooden Lintels at Uxmal jdaintira
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In a message dated 8/31/2005 12:14:53 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:

p347 he tells that many lintels are intact at uxmal. this would indicate that the ruined structures of palenque are older, than those still with intact lintels at uxmal.

Ah, now I see.

Uxmal is a very different climate from Palenque. Certainly still tropical, but not a humid jungle, and wood would certainly last much longer there. Palenque is a place where your tennis shoes could rot over night - and both times I have been there it has been in the short "dry" season.

I do not specifically recall the wooden lintels, but may have photos packed away somewhere.

I decided several years ago that the abandonment of the major Mayan cities must have been connected to hurricanes.

At Copan ( really jungle there), the graveyard was beside the river. Imagine a storm such as the one that just hit New Orleans and Biloxi. The stone temples would withstand this, but not much else. No clean water, food supplies destroyed, graveyards and human/animal waste washed into the clean water source of the river (and there is evidence for this happening at Copan), disease following.

Naturally, the people would take to the jungle and woods and might not ever come back.

~JM

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