Steve,


> > You could also just print the necessary 21-step test strips to do a fresh
partitioning.  You might end up with a closer fit to the ink.  But you may not
want to get into this yet....


> Do I start from a completely zeroed out *.qidf file without any information
entered into the fields?


Usually you start with a Calibration Mode print that prints 21-step test strips
of all the inks.  (With a 7600 and if you just making the LK-K partition, you
can speed this up by making individual test strips, but that gets into how to
make them.  So I'd stay at the moment with the normal procedure.)  Have the
Calibration Mode print set to print at 100% limit (the slider near the bottom of
the page.)

(By the way, I'm PC, so I'm not sure what a Mac interface is like.)

Use the 100% calibration curve to set you ink limits in a new, *.qidf file.  Be
sure to zero out the linearization tab also.

Print another Calibration mode at the K ink limit.  The point is to get a
21-step print of the black ink printed at its ink limit.  This is used to figure
the relative densities of the midtone inks.  The boxes you'll need to fill in in
the Curve Creator are the ink limits and relative densities of the black and LK
inks to allow the system to partition these.

(Or 21-step with a profile that is simply K 0-100 [or ink limit].  I often make
straight line curves for specific purposes just to save the time of printing an
entire Calibration mode print.  To do this, hid Load curve (in drop down menu
just below the ink name in the Curve Creator), press Curve button, go to point
list, enter (0,0) and (100, 100) [or ink limit] -- be sure it's a straight line
curve.  I call name these curves, e.g., "K-0-100.")



> The minimum separation is a problem, but I only have an Epson Scanner to scan
the image then convert to Lab mode and measure the steps with the "Info" window.

Scanners work fine for measuring relative densities of grayscale inks.  I don't
trust them for color or absolute readings, but you don't need these at this
point.  That said, I think for B&W work the ColorVision spectro is a very good
tool to have and a good value.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>

> You could also just print the necessary 21-step test strips to do a fresh
partitioning.  You might end up with a closer fit to the ink.  But you may not
want to get into this yet....

> That is one of the reasons to start from scratch.  The curve you're starting
with is probably not very well partitioned for the ink you're using....

Do I start from a completely zeroed out *.qidf file without any information
entered into the fields?

> I actually prefer compressed shadow tones on pre-linearization curves, as long
as there is some minimum separation so that QTR doesn't refuse to partition the
input.

The minimum separation is a problem, but I only have an Epson Scanner to scan
the image then convert to Lab mode and measure the steps with the "Info" window.

> Many of the errors I see in final curves are due to the software not having
enough deep shadow information.  If the information is not there QTR will
interpolate. In the deep shadows where the curves are in steep cross-overs the
interpolation may miss the mark.

The separation in the deep shadows are separated by steps of just one or two for
about the first 5 or 6 steps from the deepest black.

So far as the linearized curve, it looks like a shallow bowl tipped up on its
side. The straight line curve or at least close to a straight line, doesn't
exist.

> I prefer to read the 21-step curves with a spectro and then graph the results.

As I said above I only an Epson scanner and not a spectro.

Steve Law

InkjetMall is having a Black Friday Sale:

20% off on complete bottle sets of Piezography inks.
20% off on complete bottle and cart sets of ConeColor
20% off on Type5 papers

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.23/.f

best regards,

Jon
Piezography Black & White inks and software

Hi Steve,

> I am trying to create a neutral curve for Epson Enhanced
> Matte paper. I am using Lyson Cave Paint pigmented Inks
> on an Epson 7600 printer.

> I started with the enhanced matte warm curve for the 7600 ...

Do the Cave paint inks generally print similarly to the UC inks?  If they are
close, starting with a UC profile probably will work.  You could also just print
the necessary 21-step test strips to do a fresh partitioning.  You might end up
with a closer fit to the ink.  But you may not want to get into this yet.


> ... Here is a quote from the user guide:
>
> "Once you print a step wedge, the next task is to visually assess the overall
appearance of the print. Can you see all 21 distinct densities? Do they appear
more-or-less evenly space. ..."

> Back to me. I can see the distinct densities in the highlights and mid tones,
but when it gets to the shadows, they start bunching up and are too close to
each other in density. ...

That is one of the reasons to start from scratch.  The curve you're starting
with is probably not very well partitioned for the ink you're using.

But, it might still be fine.

I actually prefer compressed shadow tones on pre-linearization curves, as long
as there is some minimum separation so that QTR doesn't refuse to partition the
input.  Many of the errors I see in final curves are due to the software not
having enough deep shadow information.  If the information is not there QTR will
interpolate.  In the deep shadows where the curves are in steep cross-overs the
interpolation may miss the mark.  Actual information as to what is going on down
there really helps the system.

I prefer to read the 21-step curves with a spectro and then graph the results. 
This is a far more accurate what to "see" what is happening than just
eye-balling it.  I use Excel to do the graphing.  There are other programs, and
OpenOffice.org spreadsheets can do the job also, though more steps are needed.

At any rate, for eye-balling the deep shadows, if you can't see into them very
well even with a good light, put a strong light behind the print.  Reflective
light passes through the ink twice -- transmissive only once.  So, the effective
density is cut in half and it's much easier to see what is going on in the deep
shadows.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I am trying to create a neutral curve for Epson Enhanced Matte paper. I am using
Lyson Cave Paint pigmented Inks on an Epson 7600 printer. I started with the
enhanced matte warm curve for the 7600 and followed all of the steps and did
also a little experimentation. In other words, I have been all over the map with
this.

Here is exactly where I am stuck. The user guide by Tom Moore says something I
am not, so far, able to get. Here is a quote from the user guide:

"Once you print a step wedge, the next task is to visually assess the overall
appearance of the print. Can you see all 21 distinct densities? Do they appear
more-or-less evenly space. ..."

Back to me. I can see the distinct densities in the highlights and mid tones,
but when it gets to the shadows, they start bunching up and are too close to
each other in density. Nothing like the separation of steps in the highlights
and mid-tones. In other words, the steps do not appear more-or-less evenly
spaced (in the shadows.)

That's all I got, any suggestions???

Thanks...

Bit map images aren't really supported but the whole print system.
It's worth noting that everything is converted to 720x720 ppi
grayscale image before going to QTR.
For the most control you can create the exact 720 ppi gray image that you want.

Roy

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David <dkfreed@...> wrote:
> Thanks Roy -- finally, the answer! Its just a guess on my part, but I'm
wondering if the random dot placement of inkjet printers is why they don't print
bit-map images all that well, and often print them very dark? (And why I'm
having so much trouble getting the results I want)
>
> best, david
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> The only way to get specific ratios of two inks is to mix the inks by hand
and load the
>> mixture into one of the ink carts.  The printers only output up to 3
different ink drop sizes so the printer itself can't do what you are asking for.
 Inkjet printers in general use dithering to get multiple levels -- your eye
does the averaging of a larger area
>> than one ink drop.
>>
>> QTR doesn't have a way to correlate positioning of different inks.  In
>> fact the idea is just the opposite -- eliminate dot patterns by more
randomness of dot placement.
>>
>> Roy
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:00 AM, David <dkfreed@...> wrote:
>> > Thanks again Joost.
>> >
>> >
>> > Getting back to my original question, I'd still like to know the
settings/curves in QTR, so that each dot of ink laid down is a certain mix of
two color inks, say magenta and yellow, or cyan and magenta; so if I printed a
bit mapped image the dots of ink would be this color combination, bit the spaces
in between would be blank.
>> >
>> > Best, David.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks Roy -- finally, the answer! Its just a guess on my part, but I'm
wondering if the random dot placement of inkjet printers is why they don't print
bit-map images all that well, and often print them very dark? (And why I'm
having so much trouble getting the results I want)

best, david


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> The only way to get specific ratios of two inks is to mix the inks by hand and
load the
> mixture into one of the ink carts.  The printers only output up to 3 different
ink drop sizes so the printer itself can't do what you are asking for.  Inkjet
printers in general use dithering to get multiple levels -- your eye does the
averaging of a larger area
> than one ink drop.
>
> QTR doesn't have a way to correlate positioning of different inks.  In
> fact the idea is just the opposite -- eliminate dot patterns by more
randomness of dot placement.
>
> Roy
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:00 AM, David <dkfreed@...> wrote:
> > Thanks again Joost.
> >
> >
> > Getting back to my original question, I'd still like to know the
settings/curves in QTR, so that each dot of ink laid down is a certain mix of
two color inks, say magenta and yellow, or cyan and magenta; so if I printed a
bit mapped image the dots of ink would be this color combination, bit the spaces
in between would be blank.
> >
> > Best, David.

Hi David,

The only way to get specific ratios of two inks is to mix the inks by
hand and load the
mixture into one of the ink carts.  The printers only output up to 3
different ink drop sizes
so the printer itself can't do what you are asking for.  Inkjet
printers in general use dithering
to get multiple levels -- your eye does the averaging of a larger area
than one ink drop.

QTR doesn't have a way to correlate positioning of different inks.  In
fact the idea is just
the opposite -- eliminate dot patterns by more randomness of dot placement.

Roy


On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:00 AM, David <dkfreed@...> wrote:
> Thanks again Joost.
>
> I have already tried the rastus plugin, but didn't get the results I needed.
There is another program called Icefields, but it is only for Mac. I'm looking
into whether I can run it on my PC using Mac emulator software.
>
> Getting back to my original question, I'd still like to know the
settings/curves in QTR, so that each dot of ink laid down is a certain mix of
two color inks, say magenta and yellow, or cyan and magenta; so if I printed a
bit mapped image the dots of ink would be this color combination, bit the spaces
in between would be blank.
>
> Best, David.
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> I use the Andromeda "screens" filter. I notice they changed their website at
the expense of a decent explanation. This link:
>>
>> http://www.andromeda.com/main/screengall_screens.php
>>
>> gives some idea. I guess it's the same filter as your call "mezzotint". I use
it to create an aquatint-like dithering, which is noticably different than a
stochastic dithering. Given the same resolution the aquatint has a coarser, but
more natural/artistic feel then a stochastic dithering.
>>
>> If you want stochastic dithering indeed, there are several (free) photoshop
plugins that do that.
>>
>> Joost
>>
>>
>> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dkfreed@> wrote:
>> >
>> > Joost, which Andromeda filter did you use? Is it the mezzotint? I asked
them about this, and they said a filter to do what I want is soon to be
released, but not available right now. Maybe they don't understand what I want.
>> >
>> > Best, David.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi david,
>> > > >
>> > > > I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR
with good success.
>> > > >
>> > > >I use andromeda screen filter for this. The result should be a black and
white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in Photoshop, not QTR. Any
consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the dithering pattern is to
be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks again Joost.

I have already tried the rastus plugin, but didn't get the results I needed.
There is another program called Icefields, but it is only for Mac. I'm looking
into whether I can run it on my PC using Mac emulator software.

Getting back to my original question, I'd still like to know the settings/curves
in QTR, so that each dot of ink laid down is a certain mix of two color inks,
say magenta and yellow, or cyan and magenta; so if I printed a bit mapped image
the dots of ink would be this color combination, bit the spaces in between would
be blank.

Best, David.


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I use the Andromeda "screens" filter. I notice they changed their website at
the expense of a decent explanation. This link:
>
> http://www.andromeda.com/main/screengall_screens.php
>
> gives some idea. I guess it's the same filter as your call "mezzotint". I use
it to create an aquatint-like dithering, which is noticably different than a
stochastic dithering. Given the same resolution the aquatint has a coarser, but
more natural/artistic feel then a stochastic dithering.
>
> If you want stochastic dithering indeed, there are several (free) photoshop
plugins that do that.
>
> Joost
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dkfreed@> wrote:
> >
> > Joost, which Andromeda filter did you use? Is it the mezzotint? I asked them
about this, and they said a filter to do what I want is soon to be released, but
not available right now. Maybe they don't understand what I want.
> >
> > Best, David.
> >
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi david,
> > > >
> > > > I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR
with good success.
> > > >
> > > >I use andromeda screen filter for this. The result should be a black and
white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in Photoshop, not QTR. Any
consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the dithering pattern is to
be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.
> >
>

Paul,

C6b with Edwal wetting agent.

Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com



From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:58 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: B&W start up





Gary,

> I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my
> 1400 since March without any trouble ...

That's good to know. Are you using what I now call C6b -- with the Edwal
wetting agent -- or the original C6 with just Photo Flo?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

I use the Andromeda "screens" filter. I notice they changed their website at the
expense of a decent explanation. This link:

http://www.andromeda.com/main/screengall_screens.php

gives some idea. I guess it's the same filter as your call "mezzotint". I use it
to create an aquatint-like dithering, which is noticably different than a
stochastic dithering. Given the same resolution the aquatint has a coarser, but
more natural/artistic feel then a stochastic dithering.

If you want stochastic dithering indeed, there are several (free) photoshop
plugins that do that.

Joost


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dkfreed@...> wrote:
>
> Joost, which Andromeda filter did you use? Is it the mezzotint? I asked them
about this, and they said a filter to do what I want is soon to be released, but
not available right now. Maybe they don't understand what I want.
>
> Best, David.
>
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi david,
> > >
> > > I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR with
good success.
> > >
> > >I use andromeda screen filter for this. The result should be a black and
white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in Photoshop, not QTR. Any
consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the dithering pattern is to
be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.
>

Joost, which Andromeda filter did you use? Is it the mezzotint? I asked them
about this, and they said a filter to do what I want is soon to be released, but
not available right now. Maybe they don't understand what I want.

Best, David.

>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi david,
> >
> > I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR with
good success.
> >
> >I use andromeda screen filter for this. The result should be a black and
white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in Photoshop, not QTR. Any
consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the dithering pattern is to
be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.

Funny... I've had my 1800 for 1 year now running CIS with no problems
whatsoever..  I do tend to leave it turned on though..  does this make a
difference ? Don't know...  guess I will keep my fingers crossed.

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, pr_roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

From: pr_roark <paul.roark@...>
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Printer Advice
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 12:06 PM







 









       "Ulrich" <boston4849@ ...> wrote:



> I am using the R1800 for 3 years now and having always

> problems with clogging. As far as I know, this is not

> clogging of the printerhead, there are little bubbles

> in the cartridge...



There have been lots of problems with the 1800 carts.  While I have not used a
CIS with the 1800, the 3 inexpensive SuperjetUSA CISs I've set up have worked
very well.  One of those might be worth trying -- much cheaper than a new
printer.



Paul

www.PaulRoark. com























       __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8.
Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks Joost. By using either 720 or 1440 ppi resolution with QTR (and
lightening my blacks), I'm able to get the look of a stochastic screen. I've
been working with Mark Nelson's precision digital negatives, which use color
inks instead of blacks to create digital negatives--or in my case, positives.

There are a number of colors which would give me the necessary opacity/UV
blocking for my 'dots' so my color mix is one of many. The main question I have
is how to apply two colors so they both fill the same space, or dot, on my
transparency.

I will check out the Andromeda plug-in as well. I've tried the Rastus plug-in to
create a random screen affect, but it's not very consistent.

best, d.


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>
> Hi david,
>
> I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR with
good success.
>
> I'm not sure if you count on QTR to create the aquatint dithering. Anyhow, at
least given your requirements, it will not. You will have to create the
dithering pattern in eg photoshop. I use andromeda screen filter for this. The
result should be a black and white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in
Photoshop, not QTR. Any consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the
dithering pattern is to be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.
>
> Next you'll have to create a QTR curve. I suggest you read Tom More's manual.
In your case, it's actually much simpler than a normal curve as you should only
be concerned by the blacks, as the image does not contain any gray levels.
Apperently, you already know you need magenta and yellow in a certain ratio. But
be carefull not to overload, I would be concerned that a curve with 94% of the
maximumlevel of one ink + 75% of the other would be way more then the medium can
absorp.
>
> What are you printing on? I have printed on Agfa Copyjet. After some
experiments it turned out that in my case just matte black gave the highest
density. Any experiments with photoblack and magenta gave much less density. But
I guess that's very dependent on the situation.
>
> Joost
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dkfreed@> wrote:
> >
> > I have an off-beat request: I'm trying to create, on transparency film, an
image made up of dots, where the darker tones have the dots spaced closer
together and the lighter tones have the dots spaced farther apart.
> >
> > I'm using this to create a photopolymer etching plate; for those unfamiliar
with this, its probably most similar to screen printing,
> >
> > Using QTR, I'd be printing these at 720 or 1440 ppi.
> >
> > Here's the kicker: I'd like EACH DOT to be the same color, using about 94%
magenta and 75% yellow ink. (The range of tones in my image file range from
about 80% to white, so there is no pure black and no place in the image where
the dots would totally fill up the space.)
> >
> > Could someone tell me what density and ink limit settings I'd need for both
the magenta and yellow inks.
> >
> > I'm a novice to QTR. I asked this question a few years ago, but I'm not
getting the results I need based on past advice.
> >
> > kind regards, david
> >
> > Best, David.
> >
>

"Ulrich" <boston4849@...> wrote:

> I am using the R1800 for 3 years now and having always
> problems with clogging. As far as I know, this is not
> clogging of the printerhead, there are little bubbles
> in the cartridge...

There have been lots of problems with the 1800 carts.  While I have not used a
CIS with the 1800, the 3 inexpensive SuperjetUSA CISs I've set up have worked
very well.  One of those might be worth trying -- much cheaper than a new
printer.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Gary,


> I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my
> 1400 since March without any trouble ...

That's good to know.  Are you using what I now call C6b -- with the Edwal
wetting agent -- or the original C6 with just Photo Flo?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Ola,
I am using the R1800 for 3 years now and having always problems with clogging.
As far as I know, this is not clogging of the printerhead,
there are little bubbles in the cartridge. This problem ocures rather with refil
ink than with the org. ink. I am printing now with 3 MK Carbon black, and wen
the printer works I am realy satisfied. I am struggeling now since 3 weeks with
clogging and can´t print in good quality. Thinking of buying R2880 in hope of
fewer problems. As far as I know there are no real alternatives of using Epson
printers and Quadtone (thanks to Roy for this exelent tool)
--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Ola Olsson <oeolsson@...> wrote:
>
> I think my Epson R1800 is in need of replacement. I love the quality
> of the prints; that is, when the heads aren't clogging up. Does anyone
> have suggestions for a high quality B&W replacement? Also, is there
> any consensus on replacement continuous feed systems. I've been using
> MK3 carbon ink cartridges and recently they have consistently failed
> to print. This happened when their cartridge design changed to smaller
> ones with no peel-off seal. Any one else had similar problems? Thanks
> for any help.
>
> Ola Olsson
>

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:26 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: B&W start up



  Paul,

I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my 1400 since March
without any trouble using inexpensive refillable cartridges. I do think a
CIS would be handier since I am always filling these small cartridges.



Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com


You can see from my BW-Info index page at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions)
for matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use. The HP PK is also very
good for neutral matte paper prints.

On the other hand, there are negatives to the dilute Eboni that a potential
user needs to be aware of. It settles faster than most of the other
pigments. (The blended MIS B&W inks are not all that stable either -- see
page 4 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf) Note that the dilute HP
PK does not settle or separate as far as I know. I use full strength HP PK
in a 1400. So, I do not have long term experience with the dilute HP PK.

I'm probably going to go with a CIS on my 7800 with dilute Eboni because the
bottles are so easy to agitate. The carts are easy to remove, but I'm a bit
worried about the longevity of the seals if I pull the carts every session
to agitate them. I will try this option first, however.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>
I have a
> 1)3800 + Ink republic carts + color inks
> 2)R285 + UT3D
>
> I guess you have to just ask IR and explaining your situation, they're very
responsive.
> if I would set a 3800 I would look more to the diluted HP-PK + warm toner
setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness, with just a bit of toning to achieve
dead neutral prints, very good print longevity. With the 3800 you have also
sufficient slots to have matte and gloss printing with one setup. Given your own
requirements I would expect a setup like that would suit your requirements
better.

Thanks Joost. I have tried the UT3D and loved the results. The limitations of
the printer (R1900) has brought me to this juncture. I was interested in the
difference between the UT7 and UT3D but after reading your and Paul's responses
I see the longevity of these sets is somewhat questionable. So it looks like I
will look further the HP, 4K, Eboni ink set. I do need the ability of fine
tuning the color per paper used and the diluted LC and LM may do the trick.

Thanks,
SteveO

"steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@> wrote:
> >
> > Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of
drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
> > Epson 3800
> > Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
> > UT7 or UT3D ?
> > Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
> > I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and
a neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
> > It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best
starting point with materials.
> > The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
> > tia, SteveO
> >
>

> "pr_roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> You can see from my BW-Info index page at
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/  that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions)
for matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use.  The HP PK is also very good
for neutral matte paper prints.

I read this document (thanks Paul!) and it looks like a good place to start. I
will go with the 1/3 LLK + 2/3 base option for the smooooth.
Not being able to see a tone dot is the goal as well. The diluted LC and careful
use of LM seems right.
I have read of people keeping a syringe for each ink to agitate when needed, not
so sure agitating a loaded 3800 is safe.

>
> At any rate, for the 3800, there are some issues here that may be more than a
newbie B&W printer wants to get into.

I messed with (and up) a few tries with B&W so not a newbie. Vastly
inexperienced and dangerous maybe, but not a newbie :)

Thanks for your response and care!
SteveO

As I understand when printing out the Ink Separation Page in QTR, the Photo
Black (PK) or Matte Black ink (MK) at 100% is the maximum black.  Yet visually,
on most Luster/Pearl/Semi-glossy papers, the 55, 60, or 65% ink square is as
black looking as the 100%.

For example, when I measure the 100% PK ink square on Harman Crystaljet Luster
RC paper, printed with Epson inks on my R800 / R1800 with my densitometer I get
2.64.  The 60% black measures 2.13 yet visually looks as black as the 100%.  The
60% is typically chosen to create the QTR profile yet the maximum density
achievable is never really used.  This general relationship is the same for all
Luster/Pearl/Satin/Semi-gloss papers I've tested.

Yet for the inherent difference between Luster & Matte papers what is the "big
deal" about high Dmax and can you really use the 100% in creating a profile?

"horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

> ... By now I've lost interest in that and if I would set a 3800 I would look
more to the diluted HP-PK + warm toner setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness,
with just a bit of toning to achieve dead neutral prints, very good print
longevity. ...


I'm obviously in the same place, but I didn't want to toss in too many
variables.

You can see from my BW-Info index page at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/  that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions) for
matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use.  The HP PK is also very good for
neutral matte paper prints.

On the other hand, there are negatives to the dilute Eboni that a potential user
needs to be aware of.  It settles faster than most of the other pigments.  (The
blended MIS B&W inks are not all that stable either -- see page 4 of
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf)  Note that the dilute HP PK does not
settle or separate as far as I know.  I use full strength HP PK in a 1400.  So,
I do not have long term experience with the dilute HP PK.

I'm probably going to go with a CIS on my 7800 with dilute Eboni because the
bottles are so easy to agitate.  The carts are easy to remove, but I'm a bit
worried about the longevity of the seals if I pull the carts every session to
agitate them.  I will try this option first, however.

I'm also going to be testing whether there is settling in the wide format
printer tubing, but have not done that yet.  If there is, I'll implement a
return tube modification to facilitate refreshing the ink in the tubes.  This
requires a dual midtone mix -- 2 positions of 6%, 13.5% (EZ), and 30%.  This
will be a modification that is going to be experimental, so I don't recommend
others try it at this point.

At any rate, for the 3800, there are some issues here that may be more than a
newbie B&W printer wants to get into.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

"steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@...> wrote:
>
>...
> UT7 or UT3D? ...

UT7 (which was basically UT2 upgraded for the 2200) had sepia in it and varies
the tone up and down the Lab B (yellow - blue) axis , with no control over the
Lab A (red/magenta - green) axis.  UT-3D drops the sepia and adds Lab A control.

The UT2/7 sepia has a lot of MIS yellow and magenta in it.  It's fun to play
with, but not very lightfast.  I dropped the mix mostly due to the lack of
lightfastness.  It just was not up to the standards I thought we ought to have
to avoid the old prejudices against inkjet printing.

The 3D inkset's adding of the Lab A control gives the most control, but it's
more difficult to profile due to this new variable.  One ofsetting advantage is
that it can be profiled by the ColorVision system for neutral prints.  With the
Epson driver, however, getting away from neutral is a problem.  The gray
substitution of k3 printers is such that one loses control via PS curves.  QTR
is much better if manual control and something other than neutral is wanted.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Steve,

Your setup is a mix of my two. I have a
1)3800 + Ink republic carts + color inks
2)R285 + UT3D

I guess you have to just ask IR and explaining your situation, they're very
responsive.

Ink set: that's a hard one. I use the UT3D inks as I had them in stock form old
2100. It's a great set if toning would important to you. By now I've lost
interest in that and if I would set a 3800 I would look more to the diluted
HP-PK + warm toner setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness, with just a bit of
toning to achieve dead neutral prints, very good print longevity. With the 3800
you have also sufficient slots to have matte and gloss printing with one setup.
Given your own requirements I would expect a setup like that would suit your
requirements better.

Joost




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@...> wrote:
>
> Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of
drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
> Epson 3800
> Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
> UT7 or UT3D ?
> Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
> I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and a
neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
> It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best
starting point with materials.
> The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
> tia, SteveO
>

Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of
drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
Epson 3800
Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
UT7 or UT3D ?
Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and a
neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best
starting point with materials.
The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
tia, SteveO

Hi david,

I've made digital positives for photopolymer intaglio prints with QTR with good
success.

I'm not sure if you count on QTR to create the aquatint dithering. Anyhow, at
least given your requirements, it will not. You will have to create the
dithering pattern in eg photoshop. I use andromeda screen filter for this. The
result should be a black and white image (no gray tones). The dots are formed in
Photoshop, not QTR. Any consideration with respect to percentage coverage of the
dithering pattern is to be handled in photoshop, again not in QTR.

Next you'll have to create a QTR curve. I suggest you read Tom More's manual. In
your case, it's actually much simpler than a normal curve as you should only be
concerned by the blacks, as the image does not contain any gray levels.
Apperently, you already know you need magenta and yellow in a certain ratio. But
be carefull not to overload, I would be concerned that a curve with 94% of the
maximumlevel of one ink + 75% of the other would be way more then the medium can
absorp.

What are you printing on? I have printed on Agfa Copyjet. After some experiments
it turned out that in my case just matte black gave the highest density. Any
experiments with photoblack and magenta gave much less density. But I guess
that's very dependent on the situation.

Joost





--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dkfreed@...> wrote:
>
> I have an off-beat request: I'm trying to create, on transparency film, an
image made up of dots, where the darker tones have the dots spaced closer
together and the lighter tones have the dots spaced farther apart.
>
> I'm using this to create a photopolymer etching plate; for those unfamiliar
with this, its probably most similar to screen printing,
>
> Using QTR, I'd be printing these at 720 or 1440 ppi.
>
> Here's the kicker: I'd like EACH DOT to be the same color, using about 94%
magenta and 75% yellow ink. (The range of tones in my image file range from
about 80% to white, so there is no pure black and no place in the image where
the dots would totally fill up the space.)
>
> Could someone tell me what density and ink limit settings I'd need for both
the magenta and yellow inks.
>
> I'm a novice to QTR. I asked this question a few years ago, but I'm not
getting the results I need based on past advice.
>
> kind regards, david
>
> Best, David.
>

I'll make anyone a deal- send me a working known good QIDF file and I'll load it
as a 'base' curve, and attempt to hit 'show curve'.

I've tried 14 more different curves and NONE will come up.

I've reinstalled the software 6x.

I've downloaded a new copy 4x.

I've used the uninstall app 3x.

Short of a partridge and a pear tree, I don't know what else is wrong.

2 major changes to my system:
1) Upgraded to a quad core 1333 chip which...
2) upgraded the motherboard because the previous one didn't support it.

Prior to that, everything worked.

I have an off-beat request: I'm trying to create, on transparency film, an image
made up of dots, where the darker tones have the dots spaced closer together and
the lighter tones have the dots spaced farther apart.

I'm using this to create a photopolymer etching plate; for those unfamiliar with
this, its probably most similar to screen printing,

Using QTR, I'd be printing these at 720 or 1440 ppi.

Here's the kicker: I'd like EACH DOT to be the same color, using about 94%
magenta and 75% yellow ink. (The range of tones in my image file range from
about 80% to white, so there is no pure black and no place in the image where
the dots would totally fill up the space.)

Could someone tell me what density and ink limit settings I'd need for both the
magenta and yellow inks.

I'm a novice to QTR. I asked this question a few years ago, but I'm not getting
the results I need based on past advice.

kind regards, david

Best, David.

Ola,

I¹m quite satisfied with the superjetusa.com CIS system in conjunction with
Cone K7 inks on an Epson R2400 printer.

Harry


On 11/21/09 6:31 PM, "Ola Olsson" <oeolsson@...> wrote:

>
> I think my Epson R1800 is in need of replacement. I love the quality
> of the prints; that is, when the heads aren't clogging up. Does anyone
> have suggestions for a high quality B&W replacement? Also, is there
> any consensus on replacement continuous feed systems. I've been using
> MK3 carbon ink cartridges and recently they have consistently failed
> to print. This happened when their cartridge design changed to smaller
> ones with no peel-off seal. Any one else had similar problems? Thanks
> for any help.
>
> Ola Olsson
>
>
>
>

Harry F. Lockwood




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think my Epson R1800 is in need of replacement. I love the quality
of the prints; that is, when the heads aren't clogging up. Does anyone
have suggestions for a high quality B&W replacement? Also, is there
any consensus on replacement continuous feed systems. I've been using
MK3 carbon ink cartridges and recently they have consistently failed
to print. This happened when their cartridge design changed to smaller
ones with no peel-off seal. Any one else had similar problems? Thanks
for any help.

Ola Olsson