Warnings also say:



Do not let battery come in contact with water.



Might be a problem in the rain?  It's hard to know what they define as
"contact".  Most of us have RL1000's that almost never come indoors.  It
needs to withstand hard rain and wind.



In any case, $600 is a bit much.  I assume that is for the pair!



Dan



From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Danny Miller
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:53 PM
To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: Time for new batteries





Ironically, I'm pretty darn sure those batteries would NOT be a "safe"
option. There's no proper charge controller on there that I can see, so
they're literally slapping something together that a customer might
want, and to hell with design prudence and safety.

There's a lot of things you can CALL "a charge controller". But if it
can't dissipate the heat of a normal charge rate, it's doomed to
failure. And I can tell you, bad charge controllers are a FREQUENT
complaint, and often involve total loss of the battery, if not a fire.

It's not just about cost. There's design constrains involved with
installing 8x 10W resistors. Or exposing 9 low-resistance terminals for
an external controller. It's either a funky, awkward shape with a
heatsink hanging off it that puts the buyer off, or "complex" enough to
put the buyer off. So the market is more than willing to sell designs
that are basically doomed to fail. And they DO.

Danny

On 5/1/2012 9:43 AM, bkelley9401 wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Lithium cost too much with no warranty on life. The only drop-in for the
robomower cost $600 for 19.2ah.
> These would be an exact replacement no wiring change.
>
http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy12.8V19.2AhLiFePO4RechargeableBattery-3194
3.aspx
>
> If you would use these you would need to change the wiring to parallel.
>
http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy25.6V9.6AhLiFePO4RechargeableBattery-31913
.aspx
>
> Or build your own. The parts to do so are getting to be plug and pray, but
who do you blame when it fails.
>
>
>> Or... lithium....
>>
>> I'm picking up a CleanPower BMS for my Robomower; since I plan to scale
>> up this solution over the summer I wanted to try a professional-ish BMS
>> first.
>>
>> I'm also fiddling with how to mount the batteries; I think the best move
>> will be to compress copper bars with plastic insulators, held under
>> compression. Still working on the details, but a Robomower that can run
>> for 6 hours and be lighter could be nice. Right now the 8 cells weigh a
>> lot less than a single 17ah battery....
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The A123 20AH pouch cells are a far better deal.  Then you CAN put a
proper BMS on it.  But some hacker fu knowledge is required.

Danny

On 5/1/2012 3:26 PM, Dan Barclay wrote:
> Warnings also say:
>
>
>
> Do not let battery come in contact with water.
>
>
>
> Might be a problem in the rain?  It's hard to know what they define as
> "contact".  Most of us have RL1000's that almost never come indoors.  It
> needs to withstand hard rain and wind.
>
>
>
> In any case, $600 is a bit much.  I assume that is for the pair!
>
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Danny Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: Time for new batteries
>
>
>
>
>
> Ironically, I'm pretty darn sure those batteries would NOT be a "safe"
> option. There's no proper charge controller on there that I can see, so
> they're literally slapping something together that a customer might
> want, and to hell with design prudence and safety.
>
> There's a lot of things you can CALL "a charge controller". But if it
> can't dissipate the heat of a normal charge rate, it's doomed to
> failure. And I can tell you, bad charge controllers are a FREQUENT
> complaint, and often involve total loss of the battery, if not a fire.
>
> It's not just about cost. There's design constrains involved with
> installing 8x 10W resistors. Or exposing 9 low-resistance terminals for
> an external controller. It's either a funky, awkward shape with a
> heatsink hanging off it that puts the buyer off, or "complex" enough to
> put the buyer off. So the market is more than willing to sell designs
> that are basically doomed to fail. And they DO.
>
> Danny
>
> On 5/1/2012 9:43 AM, bkelley9401 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Lithium cost too much with no warranty on life. The only drop-in for the
> robomower cost $600 for 19.2ah.
>> These would be an exact replacement no wiring change.
>>
> http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy12.8V19.2AhLiFePO4RechargeableBattery-3194
> 3.aspx
>> If you would use these you would need to change the wiring to parallel.
>>
> http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy25.6V9.6AhLiFePO4RechargeableBattery-31913
> .aspx
>> Or build your own. The parts to do so are getting to be plug and pray, but
> who do you blame when it fails.
>>
>>> Or... lithium....
>>>
>>> I'm picking up a CleanPower BMS for my Robomower; since I plan to scale
>>> up this solution over the summer I wanted to try a professional-ish BMS
>>> first.
>>>
>>> I'm also fiddling with how to mount the batteries; I think the best move
>>> will be to compress copper bars with plastic insulators, held under
>>> compression. Still working on the details, but a Robomower that can run
>>> for 6 hours and be lighter could be nice. Right now the 8 cells weigh a
>>> lot less than a single 17ah battery....
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On 5/1/2012 2:05 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> Well, you're an engineer too Lee.  You tell me.  If you have say a 3A
> charge current, an internal "BMS", how's that gonna work?
> You shunt 3A at 3.65v, that's 11W, potentially on multiple cells.
> Where's that gonna go inside a plastic case?

You're right. The cheapest (and thus most popular) BMS is a simple shunt
regulator that bypasses excess charging current, and burns it up as
heat. You can't have very many cells doing this in a pack, or for very
long before something gets very hot. And we know that heat significantly
shortens the life of lithium cells.

> In theory you could have a series pass transistor so if any ONE cell
> started bypassing, it drops the charge current down to like 5% while
> shunting & balancing.  That will work, but I'd be surprised if they did
> that.

That is the next step up in BMS systems. The individual shunt regulators
have some kind of buss. When a cell begins shunting current, the bus
signals the charger to cut back to a low current. It roughly doubles the
cost and number of wires to be installed on the BMS. You see them;
they're just less common.

It's a challenge to make it fail-safe and reliable. Many of these bus
systems send a signal on the buss when there's a problem. That means if
a wire breaks or a regulator fails, there is *no* signal to tell the
charger to cut back or stop. But if they make it send signals for "OK",
then the regulators are drawing current all the time from the cells to
run the buss. The cells can be run dead and destroyed just from the "OK"
power requirements of the BMS.

Reliability starts to become a problem because you have hundreds of
parts and connections in these BMS systems. When they get built with the
cheapest possible parts and wiring, you get a high failure rate.

> And such a battery might not work well in series with another
> battery, I'm not sure.

Most BMS ICs are designed for laptops and other applications where the
total pack voltage is no more than 24v. Over this, you need multiple
ICs, and some way for them to cooperate.

There are problems dealing with failure modes. For instance, a cell can
fail open. That puts the full pack voltage across its terminals. The
parts between that cell and its BMS gets "hit* with full pack voltage.
The 300v pack in an EV can put 300v across any input to the BMS!

> There's also a thing where you need the shutoff transistor.  But that's
> a mess because the transistor needs to shut off in the opposite
> direction, and a MOSFET with its intrinsic body diode won't do that.
> You'd need a series pair of either an NMOS-PMOS combination or an
> NMOS-reversed NMOS pair to be able to control current in both
> directions.

Right again. The BMS I designed for the starting battery (see earlier
post) had two anti-series NMOS MOSFETs to act as a switch. It could
handle the high starting current (like 500a for 10 sec), and the smaller
steady state currents (like 50a for an hour, or 10a indefinitely).

But that was just a single 12v battery, so I could use 30v MOSFETs. If
you put more than two batteries in series, these would have to be be
changed to higher-voltage MOSFETs, which would significantly increase
the cost. For higher voltage setups, you need to use a contactor or
relay to disconnect the battery in case of trouble.

> I have very low faith in LiFePO4 vendors doing this.

Same here. I read all the engineering journals and data sheets and
patents on BMS systems. I also reverse-engineer a lot of stuff, just to
see what's being sold and how it works.

The overwhelming majority of stuff is cheap junk that is *barely* safe
enough for the seller to dodge lawsuits if something goes wrong. And,
there are no concessions for longer battery life. This is why it is rare
to find anything with lithium cells more than a few years old where the
cells aren't shot.

This attitude on the part of venders worries me about lithiums in
electric cars. Will the automakers do it "right"? Or, will they use the
cheapest possible system that will barely get past their lawyers? From
the automaker's point of view, a $10,000 battery pack that must be
replaced every few years is a *big* profit opportunity for them!

The scheme I like best is the one I use in my own Battery Balancers (
See http://www3.telus.net/nook/balancerland). It uses relays so a single
central controller can select any cell, measure its voltage, and charge
or discharge it as needed, using power from the pack as a whole. This
way, no power is lost in wasted heat, and you don't have dangerous
failure modes.
--
First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they fight you; then you
win.
	 -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

Well I think the "strategy" they're using is assuming that there will
only be a trivial imbalance in the cells, and the charger will be
tapering off because the charge is nearly full.

So they're probably betting the shunt will take 10% of the full charge
current and/or only for a minute or two as it tops off.  But:
a) there's no guarantee the balance will be "close" like that.  It
depends on differences in cell leakage and time since last balancing.
It can be significant.
b) it's assuming the charger will taper off.  Not all charging schemes
do, in fact "constant current" which doesn't taper is a common design.
An algorithm of "3A until voltage= 3.65v * 4 = 14.6v", then "shut off
entirely".
c) the mfg generally doesn't control the charger that's put on it.
Tenergy for example is making a rather bold claim that it works with any
12v lead-acid charger.  Well WTF does that limit the possible situations
to?  There's many different charger types.

With a series transistor putting it in trickle-balance mode, that
transistor could itself be burning a LOT of heat, assuming it doesn't
have an inductor and use switching mode.  The situation gets more
serious when you try to put multiple batts in series, because the
voltage margin needed to limit the current gets higher.

The series transistor could conflict with a SLA charging algorithm.
3.45v * 3 cells + 3.65v * 1 cell= 14v, but the transistor tries to limit
current to 150mA to avoid overheating the shunts.  In doing so it allows
the batt voltage to rise above 14.8v and the charger drops out of Bulk
charge and into Float, which could be anything below 100mA, it could be
10mA, which will take days and days to complete a balancing.

Danny

On 5/1/2012 4:05 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> The overwhelming majority of stuff is cheap junk that is *barely* safe
> enough for the seller to dodge lawsuits if something goes wrong. And,
> there are no concessions for longer battery life. This is why it is
> rare to find anything with lithium cells more than a few years old
> where the cells aren't shot. This attitude on the part of venders
> worries me about lithiums in electric cars. Will the automakers do it
> "right"? Or, will they use the cheapest possible system that will
> barely get past their lawyers? From the automaker's point of view, a
> $10,000 battery pack that must be replaced every few years is a *big*
> profit opportunity for them! The scheme I like best is the one I use
> in my own Battery Balancers ( See
> http://www3.telus.net/nook/balancerland). It uses relays so a single
> central controller can select any cell, measure its voltage, and
> charge or discharge it as needed, using power from the pack as a
> whole. This way, no power is lost in wasted heat, and you don't have
> dangerous failure modes.

On 5/1/2012 4:54 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> Well I think the "strategy" they're using is assuming that there will
> only be a trivial imbalance in the cells, and the charger will be
> tapering off because the charge is nearly full.
>
> So they're probably betting the shunt will take 10% of the full charge
> current and/or only for a minute or two as it tops off.

Exactly right. They assume all cells are good, new, and well matched.

But what you'll find in an old laptop pack is that as the pack aged, one
or more cells has drifted away from the others. The amount of current or
time needed to try to balance it exceeded some limit, and the BMS shut
it down. The back is "bad" and must be replaced, even if the only
problem is that one cell has 80% of the amphour capacity of the others.

> a) there's no guarantee the balance will be "close" like that.  It
> depends on differences in cell leakage and time since last balancing.
> It can be significant.
> b) it's assuming the charger will taper off.  Not all charging schemes
> do, in fact "constant current" which doesn't taper is a common design.
> An algorithm of "3A until voltage= 3.65v * 4 = 14.6v", then "shut off
> entirely".

All correct.

> c) the mfg generally doesn't control the charger that's put on it.

Most products with lithiums *do* provide the charger, for exactly that
reason.

> Tenergy for example is making a rather bold claim that it works with any
> 12v lead-acid charger.  Well WTF does that limit the possible situations
> to?  There's many different charger types.

Exactly. Many 12v lead-acid chargers will happily output 17v forever!
They are nothing but a transformer and rectifier, and the light-load
voltage is very high.

> With a series transistor putting it in trickle-balance mode, that
> transistor could itself be burning a LOT of heat, assuming it doesn't
> have an inductor and use switching mode.  The situation gets more
> serious when you try to put multiple batts in series, because the
> voltage margin needed to limit the current gets higher.
>
> The series transistor could conflict with a SLA charging algorithm.
> 3.45v * 3 cells + 3.65v * 1 cell= 14v, but the transistor tries to limit
> current to 150mA to avoid overheating the shunts.  In doing so it allows
> the batt voltage to rise above 14.8v and the charger drops out of Bulk
> charge and into Float, which could be anything below 100mA, it could be
> 10mA, which will take days and days to complete a balancing.

Like I said, this is why people sell these batteries on eBay through
anonymous "fronts" so they can disappear when things go wrong.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
	 -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

Hey all.  I had been waiting to post an update to my solar-charged RL-1000
project until I had something worthwhile to report, however with my luck in
actually getting someone to sell me a charge controller, I'm not sure if that
time will ever come.  The original place I ordered the controller from went
black and after over a month of waiting for it to come and multiple emails to
them, I had to throw in the towel.  I have re-ordered a 24v MPPT and a 24V PWM
controller from Ebay.  I am hoping that these arrive within a reasonable time
frame, however since they are coming from China I am not expecting miracles.  In
the mean time, I have all of the other components, connectors, etc. set up and
ready for experimentation.

The only other thing I have not done is devised a way to roof-mount my 4 X 12
Volt array on the roof for cheap.  Does anyone have any suggestions for
roof-mounting a small array on a shingled roof with minimum modifications to the
roof itself?  This is a rental property and when I leave I want the landlords to
be none the wiser that I ever had anything bolted to their roof.

In any case, the RL-1000 continues to impress the neighbors with 3 excursions a
week.  Interestingly enough, my batteries seem to be in excellent condition and
run the full 4+ hours after over a year in storage following 2 mowing seasons. 
I was expecting that I would have to replace them as suggested by so much
anecdotal evidence.

In any case, I hope to have something a little more interesting to report for
next time.

Thanks.

Luc

Hello,

sorry, but could someone send me the service manual for the RL1000 mower via
e-mail?
Thank you.

jens

--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "roystrutt" <roystrutt@...> wrote:
>
> Where in the UK are you ?
> roystrutt@...
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Charles Grenkow
>   To: robomower@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:37 PM
>   Subject: RE: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>
>
>
>   Done :o)
>   To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
>   From: techferret56@...
>   Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:28:02 +0000
>   Subject: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   Hello, just managed to join the group so I hope I have got this right! UK
based user of RL1000 since 2006 I would appreciate a copy of your dealer service
infomation and manuals. Having difficulty with my RL1000 and service here is
compromised by shipping costs, so trying to sort it myself. With good
electronics background I would be willing to try and help other users where
necessary.
>
>   Thanking you in advance for any help offered,
>
>   Peter
>
>   --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Charles Grenkow <cgrenkow@> wrote:
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   > Send me an email off line and I'll search my files and see if I can send
it to you.
>
>   > ChucklesG@
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
>
>   > From: m056678@
>
>   > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:07:19 +0000
>
>   > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   > Any way to get this service manual from anyone here? Or can someone point
me to one online? I am trying to fix my RL1000. Thanks.
>
>   >
>
>   > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Grenkow <cgrenkow@> wrote:
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > > I uploaded the files last year Manual and Stop Codes - unfortunately
they were removed (copyright infringement?)
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Chuck G
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
>
>   > > From: wolfbob@
>
>   > > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:00:12 -0700
>
>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > > I have sent out several copies... standby as someone will surely put
them in order and upload them to the "Files" section.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > WBob
>
>   > >
>
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>
>   > > From: Benjamin Hill
>
>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
>
>   > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:51 AM
>
>   > > Subject: RE: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   > >
>
>   > > So, are you sharing? Are they available for download somewhere? Did I
>
>   > > miss something? I would be interested in the RL800 manual.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Ben
>
>   > >
>
>   > > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On
>
>   > > Behalf Of wolfbob
>
>   > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:12 PM
>
>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
>
>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   > >
>
>   > > I have just translated the service manuals to pdf format...It was
>
>   > > surprisingly easy. (32MB)
>
>   > >
>
>   > > I think there are two kinds of folk that have Robomowers. Those enamored
>
>   > > with the technology and those who want to cut that big lawn. In amongst
>
>   > > these two groups are two additional groups; those who fix things and
>
>   > > those who have things fixed. It is the first group that I think is
>
>   > > neglected. No matter how many tools you give the second group they still
>
>   > > don't want to fix things, but would rather pay to have them fixed. Pay
>
>   > > most any amount including buying a new mower. It is very hard for me (a
>
>   > > fixer) to imagine that the Robomower is a throwaway gadget and it it
>
>   > > breaks you just buy a new one, but there are those who have no problem
>
>   > > with this.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > But the mower is a complex device and still it puts on it's pants one
>
>   > > leg at a time. What the fixers need is the service manual and kind souls
>
>   > > to sell them parts.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > WBob
>
>   > >
>
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>
>   > > From: Christopher Zach
>
>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
>
>   > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:55 AM
>
>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
>
>   > >
>
>   > > wolfbob wrote:
>
>   > > > I have copies of the service manuals for the 500 and 800. They are on
>
>   > > my computer in HPs "Jetsuite" format but I can try to get them into
>
>   > > Adobe (pdf) or something more common. The file is 28MB.
>
>   > > >
>
>   > > > I agree, the service is too far away and its too expensive to
>
>   > > transport the mowers around. Those of us that are inclined need data to
>
>   > > keep 'em going.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Well, this is a problem I am familiar with on my US Electricar list. And
>
>   > >
>
>   > > the General Electric "Elec-Trak" list. We have these amazing things, no
>
>   > > one supports them, what do we do?
>
>   > >
>
>   > > The problems I see are as follows:
>
>   > >
>
>   > > 1) Parts. If parts become un-findable, we're screwed. One thing we do on
>
>   > >
>
>   > > the USE list is try to find stashes of parts. We also have to do
>
>   > > board-level repairs since the parts in some cases are pretty unique.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Another thought is stashes: The Elec-Traks had a lot of NOS parts out
>
>   > > there in the 70's. Some people have collected caches of them and now
>
>   > > sell them. This needs to be supported, if these people go out of
>
>   > > business or sell all the parts to Iraq for scrap we're screwed.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > 2) Service: Service is a high mark-up item because in these cases people
>
>   > >
>
>   > > need to learn how to do it and that takes time. Free service doesn't
>
>   > > work too well; someone goes in and does free service, everyone
>
>   > > over-whelms them with questions, they get fed up with it and quit. Then
>
>   > > someone else has to do the free service thing.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > This is why I charge for my time, not my knowledge. I'll tell people how
>
>   > >
>
>   > > to replace the relays and such for free (well, I won't tell them how to
>
>   > > solder, learn that yourself) but if you want me to do it for your USE
>
>   > > car, I charge $500 for my time. Seems like a lot, but there's a lot of
>
>   > > money difference between a dead USE car (value $2,000) and a working one
>
>   > >
>
>   > > (value $10,000). Besides, if I charge too much then undercut me :-)
>
>   > >
>
>   > > 3) Dealers doing service. This is a big question for the Robomower
>
>   > > people: How much $$$ are parts dealers making on service? Anything?
>
>   > > Nothing? Is Fedex eating any profits? What I don't want to see happen is
>
>   > >
>
>   > > the dealers getting undercut, then they leave, then we're screwed.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > So how do we do this? Well one option is to teach everyone with a
>
>   > > Robomower how to fix it. This works well as long as we're techs.
>
>   > > Unfortunately Robomowers are like US Electricars: Normal people want
>
>   > > them, and normal people can't fix them.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > So what do you do? Perhaps have some people step up to offer services
>
>   > > like swapping out the REV chips for $100+ shipping or swapping the drive
>
>   > >
>
>   > > train for $100 or something. Have enough people around the country and
>
>   > > shipping can stay within zone which is a lot cheaper with FedEx (also
>
>   > > use ground shipping). That's a possibility.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Otherwise we will have little islands of Robomowers. Which would be sad,
>
>   > >
>
>   > > my RL500 is incredible and really saves me time. I'd like to keep
>
>   > > sharing that with the world.
>
>   > >
>
>   > > Chris
>
>   > >
>
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>   > >
>
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>   > >
>
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
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>
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>
>   > >
>
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>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
>   > >
>
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>
>   > >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
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>   >
>
>
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   No virus found in this message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>   Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3916 - Release Date: 09/24/11
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Http://morgancomputers.net/blog/2009/07/26/robomower-manual

Austin

----- Reply message -----
From: "snej123" <snej123@...>
To: <RoboMower@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual
Date: Thu, May 3, 2012 8:32 am
Hello,



sorry, but could someone send me the service manual for the RL1000 mower via
e-mail?

Thank you.



jens



--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "roystrutt" <roystrutt@...> wrote:

>

> Where in the UK are you ?

> roystrutt@...

>

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: Charles Grenkow

>   To: robomower@yahoogroups.com

>   Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:37 PM

>   Subject: RE: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>

>

>

>   Done :o)

>   To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com

>   From: techferret56@...

>   Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:28:02 +0000

>   Subject: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   Hello, just managed to join the group so I hope I have got this right! UK
based user of RL1000 since 2006 I would appreciate a copy of your dealer service
infomation and manuals. Having difficulty with my RL1000 and service here is
compromised by shipping costs, so trying to sort it myself. With good
electronics background I would be willing to try and help other users where
necessary.

>

>   Thanking you in advance for any help offered,

>

>   Peter

>

>   --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Charles Grenkow <cgrenkow@> wrote:

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   > Send me an email off line and I'll search my files and see if I can send
it to you.

>

>   > ChucklesG@

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com

>

>   > From: m056678@

>

>   > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:07:19 +0000

>

>   > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   >

>

>   > Any way to get this service manual from anyone here? Or can someone point
me to one online? I am trying to fix my RL1000. Thanks.

>

>   >

>

>   > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Grenkow <cgrenkow@> wrote:

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > > I uploaded the files last year Manual and Stop Codes - unfortunately
they were removed (copyright infringement?)

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Chuck G

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com

>

>   > > From: wolfbob@

>

>   > > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:00:12 -0700

>

>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > >

>

>   > > I have sent out several copies... standby as someone will surely put
them in order and upload them to the "Files" section.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > WBob

>

>   > >

>

>   > > ----- Original Message -----

>

>   > > From: Benjamin Hill

>

>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com

>

>   > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:51 AM

>

>   > > Subject: RE: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   > >

>

>   > > So, are you sharing? Are they available for download somewhere? Did I

>

>   > > miss something? I would be interested in the RL800 manual.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Ben

>

>   > >

>

>   > > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On

>

>   > > Behalf Of wolfbob

>

>   > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:12 PM

>

>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com

>

>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   > >

>

>   > > I have just translated the service manuals to pdf format...It was

>

>   > > surprisingly easy. (32MB)

>

>   > >

>

>   > > I think there are two kinds of folk that have Robomowers. Those enamored

>

>   > > with the technology and those who want to cut that big lawn. In amongst

>

>   > > these two groups are two additional groups; those who fix things and

>

>   > > those who have things fixed. It is the first group that I think is

>

>   > > neglected. No matter how many tools you give the second group they still

>

>   > > don't want to fix things, but would rather pay to have them fixed. Pay

>

>   > > most any amount including buying a new mower. It is very hard for me (a

>

>   > > fixer) to imagine that the Robomower is a throwaway gadget and it it

>

>   > > breaks you just buy a new one, but there are those who have no problem

>

>   > > with this.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > But the mower is a complex device and still it puts on it's pants one

>

>   > > leg at a time. What the fixers need is the service manual and kind souls

>

>   > > to sell them parts.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > WBob

>

>   > >

>

>   > > ----- Original Message -----

>

>   > > From: Christopher Zach

>

>   > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>

>

>   > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:55 AM

>

>   > > Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: RL1000 service manual

>

>   > >

>

>   > > wolfbob wrote:

>

>   > > > I have copies of the service manuals for the 500 and 800. They are on

>

>   > > my computer in HPs "Jetsuite" format but I can try to get them into

>

>   > > Adobe (pdf) or something more common. The file is 28MB.

>

>   > > >

>

>   > > > I agree, the service is too far away and its too expensive to

>

>   > > transport the mowers around. Those of us that are inclined need data to

>

>   > > keep 'em going.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Well, this is a problem I am familiar with on my US Electricar list. And

>

>   > >

>

>   > > the General Electric "Elec-Trak" list. We have these amazing things, no

>

>   > > one supports them, what do we do?

>

>   > >

>

>   > > The problems I see are as follows:

>

>   > >

>

>   > > 1) Parts. If parts become un-findable, we're screwed. One thing we do on

>

>   > >

>

>   > > the USE list is try to find stashes of parts. We also have to do

>

>   > > board-level repairs since the parts in some cases are pretty unique.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Another thought is stashes: The Elec-Traks had a lot of NOS parts out

>

>   > > there in the 70's. Some people have collected caches of them and now

>

>   > > sell them. This needs to be supported, if these people go out of

>

>   > > business or sell all the parts to Iraq for scrap we're screwed.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > 2) Service: Service is a high mark-up item because in these cases people

>

>   > >

>

>   > > need to learn how to do it and that takes time. Free service doesn't

>

>   > > work too well; someone goes in and does free service, everyone

>

>   > > over-whelms them with questions, they get fed up with it and quit. Then

>

>   > > someone else has to do the free service thing.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > This is why I charge for my time, not my knowledge. I'll tell people how

>

>   > >

>

>   > > to replace the relays and such for free (well, I won't tell them how to

>

>   > > solder, learn that yourself) but if you want me to do it for your USE

>

>   > > car, I charge $500 for my time. Seems like a lot, but there's a lot of

>

>   > > money difference between a dead USE car (value $2,000) and a working one

>

>   > >

>

>   > > (value $10,000). Besides, if I charge too much then undercut me :-)

>

>   > >

>

>   > > 3) Dealers doing service. This is a big question for the Robomower

>

>   > > people: How much $$$ are parts dealers making on service? Anything?

>

>   > > Nothing? Is Fedex eating any profits? What I don't want to see happen is

>

>   > >

>

>   > > the dealers getting undercut, then they leave, then we're screwed.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > So how do we do this? Well one option is to teach everyone with a

>

>   > > Robomower how to fix it. This works well as long as we're techs.

>

>   > > Unfortunately Robomowers are like US Electricars: Normal people want

>

>   > > them, and normal people can't fix them.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > So what do you do? Perhaps have some people step up to offer services

>

>   > > like swapping out the REV chips for $100+ shipping or swapping the drive

>

>   > >

>

>   > > train for $100 or something. Have enough people around the country and

>

>   > > shipping can stay within zone which is a lot cheaper with FedEx (also

>

>   > > use ground shipping). That's a possibility.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Otherwise we will have little islands of Robomowers. Which would be sad,

>

>   > >

>

>   > > my RL500 is incredible and really saves me time. I'd like to keep

>

>   > > sharing that with the world.

>

>   > >

>

>   > > Chris

>

>   > >

>

>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>   > >

>

>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>   > >

>

>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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>

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>

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>

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>

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>

>   > >

>

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>

>   >

>

>

>

>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

>   No virus found in this message.

>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>   Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3916 - Release Date: 09/24/11

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you bolted those solar panels to my rental property I would be the owner of
those solar panels. And I could have my over paid nephew despose of them and
send you the bill. Get written permision first. Plus building permits and
increase in taxes for the added panels. Rental properties are under a different
code than homeower property and the inspectors may not be as forgiving.

--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "lucasaltic" <lucasaltic@...> wrote:
>
> Hey all.  I had been waiting to post an update to my solar-charged RL-1000
project until I had something worthwhile to report, however with my luck in
actually getting someone to sell me a charge controller, I'm not sure if that
time will ever come.  The original place I ordered the controller from went
black and after over a month of waiting for it to come and multiple emails to
them, I had to throw in the towel.  I have re-ordered a 24v MPPT and a 24V PWM
controller from Ebay.  I am hoping that these arrive within a reasonable time
frame, however since they are coming from China I am not expecting miracles.  In
the mean time, I have all of the other components, connectors, etc. set up and
ready for experimentation.
>
> The only other thing I have not done is devised a way to roof-mount my 4 X 12
Volt array on the roof for cheap.  Does anyone have any suggestions for
roof-mounting a small array on a shingled roof with minimum modifications to the
roof itself?  This is a rental property and when I leave I want the landlords to
be none the wiser that I ever had anything bolted to their roof.
>
> In any case, the RL-1000 continues to impress the neighbors with 3 excursions
a week.  Interestingly enough, my batteries seem to be in excellent condition
and run the full 4+ hours after over a year in storage following 2 mowing
seasons.  I was expecting that I would have to replace them as suggested by so
much anecdotal evidence.
>
> In any case, I hope to have something a little more interesting to report for
next time.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Luc
>

On 5/3/2012 12:16 PM, bkelley9401 wrote:
> If you bolted those solar panels to my rental property I would be the
> owner of those solar panels. And I could have my over paid nephew
> dispose of them and send you the bill. Get written permission first.

I think he's right. Some landlords can be a real jerk about renter
"improvements".

Ask first. He might surprise you, and be interested in the idea. It can
be done "right" so as not to detract from the value of the property.

Or, you can look for ways to make a temporary installation. I bought
five 12"x48" solar panels some years ago. When I first got them, I
simply stood them up in my dining room windows. Not an ideal setup, but
easy and legal.

--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
	 -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

Oh I didn't read that part.

Yeah attaching to a roof is quite dangerous.  I'm assuming this is a
common asphalt shingle roof- it's required to screw into roof decking.

Any amateur effort WILL cause serious roof damage.  One screw or nail
passing through the shingles WILL cause a leak and start a large circle
of rot of the plywood decking as rain gets trapped under the shingles.
The only way to fix that is a minimum of ripping up a bunch of shingles
and tarpaper, but probably won't be caught until the decking is rotting,
so it'll be replacing an entire square, possibly several squares since
the panels will lay over more than one.  Once you're replacing several
squares, a lotta contractors will recommend replacing the entire roof.

A roof will last a really long time without damage.  WITH damage, even a
1/8" nail in the wrong place, things will get really expensive in a few
years.  And I'll say this- simple Joe Blow attempts to "fix it" with
sealants or whatever, without understanding roofing, will pretty much
always make it even worse.  There's like 2 ways to do it right and 98
ways to do it wrong.

But if you don't attach panels securely, under high-wind conditions
they'll go flying.  Not only are the panels gonna get broken, they're a
danger to persons and property.

There are ways to do mountings properly, but you'll need to do some
major reading-up on that and have a working understanding of roof
construction and repair.  There's plenty of pages you can Google if
you're good about reading and understanding.  But if you don't OWN the
roof, this just isn't do-able without landlord permission and I don't
see why any sane landlord WOULD give permission for amateur roof hacking.

Danny

On 5/3/2012 12:16 PM, bkelley9401 wrote:
>
> If you bolted those solar panels to my rental property I would be the owner of
those solar panels. And I could have my over paid nephew despose of them and
send you the bill. Get written permision first. Plus building permits and
increase in taxes for the added panels. Rental properties are under a different
code than homeower property and the inspectors may not be as forgiving.
>
> --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "lucasaltic"<lucasaltic@...>  wrote:
>> Hey all.  I had been waiting to post an update to my solar-charged RL-1000
project until I had something worthwhile to report, however with my luck in
actually getting someone to sell me a charge controller, I'm not sure if that
time will ever come.  The original place I ordered the controller from went
black and after over a month of waiting for it to come and multiple emails to
them, I had to throw in the towel.  I have re-ordered a 24v MPPT and a 24V PWM
controller from Ebay.  I am hoping that these arrive within a reasonable time
frame, however since they are coming from China I am not expecting miracles.  In
the mean time, I have all of the other components, connectors, etc. set up and
ready for experimentation.
>>
>> The only other thing I have not done is devised a way to roof-mount my 4 X 12
Volt array on the roof for cheap.  Does anyone have any suggestions for
roof-mounting a small array on a shingled roof with minimum modifications to the
roof itself?  This is a rental property and when I leave I want the landlords to
be none the wiser that I ever had anything bolted to their roof.
>>
>> In any case, the RL-1000 continues to impress the neighbors with 3 excursions
a week.  Interestingly enough, my batteries seem to be in excellent condition
and run the full 4+ hours after over a year in storage following 2 mowing
seasons.  I was expecting that I would have to replace them as suggested by so
much anecdotal evidence.
>>
>> In any case, I hope to have something a little more interesting to report for
next time.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Luc
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Danny Miller wrote:
> Yeah attaching to a roof is quite dangerous.  I'm assuming this is a
> common asphalt shingle roof- it's required to screw into roof decking.
> Any amateur effort WILL cause serious roof damage...

I wouldn't go that far. I was a TV repairman and put antennas on roofs
for *decades*. We never had a problem with leaks unless we did something
careless.

Basically, you find the stud with a stud finder. Drill a hole for the
lag screw. Pump the hole full of roofing cement, and put a pad of cement
around the hole the size of the bracket you're attaching. Then drive the
lag screw into the hole to force the cement out around the sides of the
hole and seal it.

> a 1/8" nail in the wrong place, things will get really expensive
> in a few years.

Nails are definitely* wrong! They won't hold, and will leak!

> But if you don't attach panels securely, under high-wind conditions
> they'll go flying.

Exactly right. You have to mount the panels slightly above the roof, to
provide for airflow so they don't overheat. But that air space gives the
wind an opportunity to lift them. So they have to be solidly screwed or
bolted down.

The panels on my roof have been up 5 years so far. No leaks. I can see
the underside of the room and there's not a trace of a leak. I bolted
the PV panels to an aluminum frame. The frame is screwed to three
pressure treated 2"x4"s which provides the air space. The 2"x4"s are lag
screwed to the roof in 6 places.

In a landlord situation, I'd hire a roofer to install time. That way,
you have a professional doing it.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!    -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

Even professional installation is risky.  I've seen expensive
professional installation which looked like it was performed with
trained monkeys without the training.  And basically all roof features
carry a risk over NOT having a feature there.  My roof's had problems
where vent flanges go through, and those were professionally installed.

Esp temporary installation for a renter.  You can't simply remove the
mounting, a repair job would need to be done.  You'd need to replace
drilled shingles, if not the tarpaper underneath.

It's an absurd length to go to, considering the goal would be to
generate what's probably going to be like $5 in power over its entire
life.  Let's see- 24v * 20AH = 480 watt-hrs.  Power's $0.10/KWH so
that's $0.096/charge at say 50% charge efficiency.  In 52 charges you've
saved $5, so the figure isn't a hyperbole.  It's a fun project for show,
but it'll be wildly expensive for what it actually makes.

Danny

On 5/3/2012 6:02 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> Danny Miller wrote:
>> Yeah attaching to a roof is quite dangerous.  I'm assuming this is a
>> common asphalt shingle roof- it's required to screw into roof decking.
>> Any amateur effort WILL cause serious roof damage...
> I wouldn't go that far. I was a TV repairman and put antennas on roofs
> for *decades*. We never had a problem with leaks unless we did something
> careless.
>
> Basically, you find the stud with a stud finder. Drill a hole for the
> lag screw. Pump the hole full of roofing cement, and put a pad of cement
> around the hole the size of the bracket you're attaching. Then drive the
> lag screw into the hole to force the cement out around the sides of the
> hole and seal it.
>
>> a 1/8" nail in the wrong place, things will get really expensive
>> in a few years.
> Nails are definitely* wrong! They won't hold, and will leak!
>
>> But if you don't attach panels securely, under high-wind conditions
>> they'll go flying.
> Exactly right. You have to mount the panels slightly above the roof, to
> provide for airflow so they don't overheat. But that air space gives the
> wind an opportunity to lift them. So they have to be solidly screwed or
> bolted down.
>
> The panels on my roof have been up 5 years so far. No leaks. I can see
> the underside of the room and there's not a trace of a leak. I bolted
> the PV panels to an aluminum frame. The frame is screwed to three
> pressure treated 2"x4"s which provides the air space. The 2"x4"s are lag
> screwed to the roof in 6 places.
>
> In a landlord situation, I'd hire a roofer to install time. That way,
> you have a professional doing it.

Just a quick note: If your account is compromised and sending spam to
the list, I'll toss you off the list. Resub when you get it fixed.

On the Lithium front BMS is on the way and the AL stock, plastic spacer
stock, spacers, and all sorts of goddies have arrived. Next step will be
to build it all this weekend.

Chris

On 5/3/2012 8:19 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> Even professional installation is risky. I've seen expensive
> professional installation which looked like it was performed with
> trained monkeys without the training. And basically all roof features
> carry a risk over NOT having a feature there. My roof's had problems
> where vent flanges go through, and those were professionally installed.

Indeed. I had professionals from a reputable company install UNi-rack
panels on my roof 7 years ago. Last fall the bathroom ceiling was
leaking, roof rotted. Called vendor, they had been bought and the new
vendor told me tough crap. They wouldn't even pull the panels for the
roofers, so I had to have Atlantic Solar do it for $1,000.

They pulled the panels and took a picture of the problem: All
penetrations were perfect, but there was a 1 foot round *hole* in my
roof. Right through two layers of shingle and down to the rotted wood
decking. No signs of an animal getting stuck.

My guess is that the panels on Uni-Rack got some oak leaves trapped
under them. Over the years the pile went acidic and burned off the roof.

No more panels on the house for me, only on the sheds.

Chris

Thanks guys.  These were my initial instincts but when I originally posted this
project here a few people said it was doable.  I don't know much about roofing
or mounting things to roofs, so it sounds like the roof-mount idea may be out. 
I have a good sunny spot on the driveway right in front of the garage that I
will likely park the panels.

As far as Danny Miller's comments about the payback: the panels were left over
from another project and I had the charge controller on order for something
else, so this is basically free.  That said, the point would definitely NOT be
to save money.

Thanks again.

Luc


--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, The CZ Unit <cz@...> wrote:
>
> On 5/3/2012 8:19 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> > Even professional installation is risky. I've seen expensive
> > professional installation which looked like it was performed with
> > trained monkeys without the training. And basically all roof features
> > carry a risk over NOT having a feature there. My roof's had problems
> > where vent flanges go through, and those were professionally installed.
>
> Indeed. I had professionals from a reputable company install UNi-rack
> panels on my roof 7 years ago. Last fall the bathroom ceiling was
> leaking, roof rotted. Called vendor, they had been bought and the new
> vendor told me tough crap. They wouldn't even pull the panels for the
> roofers, so I had to have Atlantic Solar do it for $1,000.
>
> They pulled the panels and took a picture of the problem: All
> penetrations were perfect, but there was a 1 foot round *hole* in my
> roof. Right through two layers of shingle and down to the rotted wood
> decking. No signs of an animal getting stuck.
>
> My guess is that the panels on Uni-Rack got some oak leaves trapped
> under them. Over the years the pile went acidic and burned off the roof.
>
> No more panels on the house for me, only on the sheds.
>
> Chris
>

Folks, here is feedback I got from a battery seller.
Anybody has had experience whit the following in your favorite mower?
Panasonic, 2 models: LC-RD1217P @ 53.75e & LC-X1220P @ 67.75e PowerSonic:
PS-12180NB @ 39.75e EnerSys Genesis: NP18-12B @ 42.50

Thanks!

-fred
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Ken" <qa@...>
Date: May 4, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: Possible substitutes for the NPX-80FR battery on BO
To: <freedomfred@...>

Fred,
All of these batteries can be seen side by side on our website by searching
on "L105" using the search box. I have good stock on all these, they are
the same size and terminals and "form factor" as the NPX-80FR. The 80FR is
a high rate battery designed for UPS applications calling for a battery
capable of producing a lot of current in a short period of time, but not
well suited for sustained power drain like I would think the lawn mower
would require.

Panasonic, 2 models: LC-RD1217P @ 53.75e & LC-X1220P @ 67.75e
PowerSonic: PS-12180NB @ 39.75e
EnerSys Genesis: NP18-12B @ 42.50e

The Panasonic LC-RD1217P's are used in mobile X-Ray machines (very
demanding application on a battery) and the price is less, by a bit than
the NPX's you ordered.
The other Panasonic, LC-X1220P is probably the best battery on the list for
your application, but is a bit pricier.
The PowerSonic probably not the best choice, quality wise.
Genesis NP18-12B, very good quality descent price.

The secret to extended life from any battery in this application is getting
them back on a charger as soon as possible after the mowing is done.
Regards,
Ken



Ken McLane
Quality Control Manager
Portable Power Systems, Inc.
phones: 303-460-8261, toll free: 1-800-551-5645
website: http://www.portablepower.com/
emails: QA & Returns emails <qa@...> , Sales
emails<sales@...>, other
emails <ken@...>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 5/4/2012 1:19 PM, Fred Bret-Mounet wrote:
> Folks, here is feedback I got from a battery seller.
> Anybody has had experience whit the following in your favorite mower?
> Panasonic, 2 models: LC-RD1217P @ 53.75e&  LC-X1220P @ 67.75e PowerSonic:
> PS-12180NB @ 39.75e EnerSys Genesis: NP18-12B @ 42.50

I don't have any direct experience with these particular model numbers.
That said...

I have had very good results with Enersys Genesis batteries; very high
quality and very long life. However, the one's I've used have always
been made in the USA. This one has been outsourced to China. I don't
know what that may mean for quality.

PowerSonics are a good medium quality battery. Still pretty good.

No experience with Panasonic lead-acid batteries. They have an extremely
broad product line, with everything from premium to junk in it.

--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
	 -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

EB20-12 seems to be the only battery really proven to consistently work
well in this duty.  Digikey's up to $66.40 on them though, and there's
no cheap vendors.  Digikey is supposed to be pretty good on their
shipping policies and two EB20-12 batts may end up being comparable to
PowerSonics or whatever by the end.

In fact:
http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/en/mkt/Terms.html

*6.  Shipping Charges.*  Except as otherwise provided on the Site, (1)
shipping or freight charges and insurance will be paid by the customer*,
(2) all sales are made FOBDigi-Key's warehouse in Thief River Falls, MN,
USA, and (3) shipping or freight charges fromDigi-Key's warehouse in
Thief River Falls, MN, USA are prepaid and added to the invoice, billed
collect or billed to a third party. Shipping Cost Estimator
<http://ordering.digikey.com/Ordering/ShipCostEstimator.aspx?site=us>

* When a check or money order accompanies your order,Digi-Keypays all
shipping and insurance (our choice for method of shipping) to all
addresses in the U.S. and Canada.


People have been saying that if you pay by check, they ship it for
free.  Citing the above line.  That's it straight from their website,
and it does indeed to say that.  Well, if that works then the EB20-12 is
not much more than Powersonics, shipping of two batts can be around $20.

Danny

On 5/4/2012 1:19 PM, Fred Bret-Mounet wrote:
> Folks, here is feedback I got from a battery seller.
> Anybody has had experience whit the following in your favorite mower?
> Panasonic, 2 models: LC-RD1217P @ 53.75e&  LC-X1220P @ 67.75e PowerSonic:
> PS-12180NB @ 39.75e EnerSys Genesis: NP18-12B @ 42.50
>
> Thanks!
>
> -fred
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Ken"<qa@...>
> Date: May 4, 2012 8:27 AM
> Subject: Possible substitutes for the NPX-80FR battery on BO
> To:<freedomfred@...>
>
> Fred,
> All of these batteries can be seen side by side on our website by searching
> on "L105" using the search box. I have good stock on all these, they are
> the same size and terminals and "form factor" as the NPX-80FR. The 80FR is
> a high rate battery designed for UPS applications calling for a battery
> capable of producing a lot of current in a short period of time, but not
> well suited for sustained power drain like I would think the lawn mower
> would require.
>
> Panasonic, 2 models: LC-RD1217P @ 53.75e&  LC-X1220P @ 67.75e
> PowerSonic: PS-12180NB @ 39.75e
> EnerSys Genesis: NP18-12B @ 42.50e
>
> The Panasonic LC-RD1217P's are used in mobile X-Ray machines (very
> demanding application on a battery) and the price is less, by a bit than
> the NPX's you ordered.
> The other Panasonic, LC-X1220P is probably the best battery on the list for
> your application, but is a bit pricier.
> The PowerSonic probably not the best choice, quality wise.
> Genesis NP18-12B, very good quality descent price.
>
> The secret to extended life from any battery in this application is getting
> them back on a charger as soon as possible after the mowing is done.
> Regards,
> Ken
>
>
>
> Ken McLane
> Quality Control Manager
> Portable Power Systems, Inc.
> phones: 303-460-8261, toll free: 1-800-551-5645
> website: http://www.portablepower.com/
> emails: QA&  Returns emails<qa@...>  , Sales
> emails<sales@...>, other
> emails<ken@...>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just bought (4) EB20-12 from Digikey in April.  The total with shipping
was $305.65.

-Daryl


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've got Panasonic LC-RD1217P in my RL1000 right now. They are just starting
their second full year of service (they have been in the mower for 2.5 years).
They still work great. I think these batteries are normally used in
scooter/wheelchairs, so you know they can handle some bumps and temperature
changes.

I've owned an RL1000 since 2007. It has worked great for me all that time.
Normally in the spring, it's not unusual to have a "cut wire" signal after
setting it up for the first time after a long winter(my land is prone to frost
heaves and some of my connection "fixes" over the years were not of the best
quality). But this spring, I saw something new. I would get a "cut wire",
signal, but only intermittently. Now that is a pain, because if it is a bad
connection and not an actual broken wire, it would be almost impossible to
locate (since some of the time it works). BUT, I traced the problem to a simple
loose power lead at the docking station! I just tightened it up, and it's
working great again.

So, this is just a post to let people know that sometimes "cut wire", could mean
intermittent power to the docking base, so be sure to check that first. I was
relieved not to have to go searching for a bad connection, and also that I found
it before I fried the transformer (I did this once but plugging the transformer
into the wall socket before screwing the power leads to the docking base - don't
do that!) ; )

cheers
Barry

Barry,

I had the same exact problem when setting up my RL1000 at a new residence.  I
ran all the wires and hooked everything up only to get the "cut wire" alarm.  I
checked all my connections and figured I must've gotten a little aggressive with
one of the pegs and accidentally severed the wire.  But then I popped open the
base to check the connections inside, and sure enough one of the signal leads
had popped out of the screw clamp.  This wiring was left over from the previous
setup at the old residence and I had actually inserted the wire underneath the
clamp where it wasn't fully secured.  I moved it into the hole, tightened it
back down, and don't expect to have any more problems.

Always check the gas before overhauling the engine, right?

Luc


--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Barry" <barryleger@...> wrote:
>
> I've owned an RL1000 since 2007. It has worked great for me all that time.
Normally in the spring, it's not unusual to have a "cut wire" signal after
setting it up for the first time after a long winter(my land is prone to frost
heaves and some of my connection "fixes" over the years were not of the best
quality). But this spring, I saw something new. I would get a "cut wire",
signal, but only intermittently. Now that is a pain, because if it is a bad
connection and not an actual broken wire, it would be almost impossible to
locate (since some of the time it works). BUT, I traced the problem to a simple
loose power lead at the docking station! I just tightened it up, and it's
working great again.
>
> So, this is just a post to let people know that sometimes "cut wire", could
mean intermittent power to the docking base, so be sure to check that first. I
was relieved not to have to go searching for a bad connection, and also that I
found it before I fried the transformer (I did this once but plugging the
transformer into the wall socket before screwing the power leads to the docking
base - don't do that!) ; )
>
> cheers
> Barry
>

I've had the same thing. Check connection, clean wire first! Much easier than
finding a break! Which is near impossible after a few years. And NEVER  go
cheap on a splice! Use the silicon connector or similair. It will work for a
while without but....

From: lucasaltic <lucasaltic@...>
To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 2:25 PM
Subject: [RoboMower] Re: simple cut wire signal fix


 
Barry,

I had the same exact problem when setting up my RL1000 at a new residence. I ran
all the wires and hooked everything up only to get the "cut wire" alarm. I
checked all my connections and figured I must've gotten a little aggressive with
one of the pegs and accidentally severed the wire. But then I popped open the
base to check the connections inside, and sure enough one of the signal leads
had popped out of the screw clamp. This wiring was left over from the previous
setup at the old residence and I had actually inserted the wire underneath the
clamp where it wasn't fully secured. I moved it into the hole, tightened it back
down, and don't expect to have any more problems.

Always check the gas before overhauling the engine, right?

Luc

--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Barry" <barryleger@...> wrote:
>
> I've owned an RL1000 since 2007. It has worked great for me all that time.
Normally in the spring, it's not unusual to have a "cut wire" signal after
setting it up for the first time after a long winter(my land is prone to frost
heaves and some of my connection "fixes" over the years were not of the best
quality). But this spring, I saw something new. I would get a "cut wire",
signal, but only intermittently. Now that is a pain, because if it is a bad
connection and not an actual broken wire, it would be almost impossible to
locate (since some of the time it works). BUT, I traced the problem to a simple
loose power lead at the docking station! I just tightened it up, and it's
working great again.
>
> So, this is just a post to let people know that sometimes "cut wire", could
mean intermittent power to the docking base, so be sure to check that first. I
was relieved not to have to go searching for a bad connection, and also that I
found it before I fried the transformer (I did this once but plugging the
transformer into the wall socket before screwing the power leads to the docking
base - don't do that!) ; )
>
> cheers
> Barry
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am in need of a replacement handset cradle with yellow wire for an RL800
series mower.  Does anyone know where I can get one of these?

Thank you for any leads.

I've got a cradle from a RL500 that you can have, if that will work.

--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby" <bobbybmail@...> wrote:
>
>
> I am in need of a replacement handset cradle with yellow wire for an RL800
series mower.  Does anyone know where I can get one of these?
>
> Thank you for any leads.
>

Hello all,
I'm trying to locate the Eprom upgrade I've seen mentioned on this board.

I spoke with someone at Probotics and we said he had the EPROM but the cost was
around $150.

Is this the going rate? Seems kind of high.

I found a pair of the knobby wheels on Ebay.

Thanks
Steve

I have a fairly large plot in which my RL550 does fine, and my RL1000's
previously did fine too, until the end of last year. The RL1000's started
stopping in the middle of the plot with the orange light blinking, and the
message: "waiting for signal".

I've tried 'learn wire sensors' and 'edge calibration' to no effect.

I added a signal loop near the center of this plot years ago, and it was working
as is for a few years now. This problem is recent (and only with the RL1000's -
the old 550 is fine). Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dan

I was getting this signal this spring as well when I first set it up for the
season. It would work for a while and then stop with the "waiting for signal"
indicated on the RL1000. Check to make sure your power connections at the
docking station are secure. My problem was a loose power connection that looks
like a intermittent "cut wire" light at the dock.

--- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "bhamail" <bha@...> wrote:
>
> I have a fairly large plot in which my RL550 does fine, and my RL1000's
previously did fine too, until the end of last year. The RL1000's started
stopping in the middle of the plot with the orange light blinking, and the
message: "waiting for signal".
>
> I've tried 'learn wire sensors' and 'edge calibration' to no effect.
>
> I added a signal loop near the center of this plot years ago, and it was
working as is for a few years now. This problem is recent (and only with the
RL1000's - the old 550 is fine). Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>

My mower is working fine but I'm hearing a high pitch whine.  What could it?

Ken