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The Wozniak Test   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #41157 of 41842 |
Re: The Wozniak Test

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "David Buckley" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Bimbo Town, bit of a mystery.
...........
> Just looked at your link to BimboTown, more pictures of me again, Rebecca in
the 'smalltalk' photo was quite stunning.
>


Following link calls Bimbotown "the world's only robotic nightclub". Sounds
pretty decriptive. Has some good pictures of the robotic drummer.

http://www.extremearts.co.uk/

The more I look at your site, the more amazed I am! I notice robot designs you
built back in 1993 that I am just beginning to try to emulate today [on a much
smaller scale however, LOL]. They look like great platforms to build robotic-AI
upon. Were/are they ROV or autonomous? Has anyone done extensive research with
them? Martin Smith?

http://davidbuckley.net/DB/ImperialLadies.htm



>
> The flexibility and soft approach to being right, necessary to perform
usefully in a human (animal) society will be needed in robots. They will look
generally predictable (as sane humans are) although we won't be able to predict
on a fine scale. Condor my best walking robot has just undergone a dual hip
replacement, it was showing signs of wear. Now it performs better and it gave me
an oportunity to get the program to dynamically adjust the side to side rock.
However now sometimes Condor appears to stop and ponder which way to go and at
other times appears nervous as if it isn't quite sure. These are just artifacts
of the interplay of program and the mechanical resonance and spatio temporal
changes in the perceived >environment.
>


Yes, this is similar to what Rolf Pfeifer talks about in his books as
"morphological computation", and Rbt Full calls mechanical "preflexes". When I
was testing one of hexapod walkers at different speeds, I noticed the faster I
tried to make it go, the more it became jerky and unstable. From reading Pfeifer
and Full, I think the frame was far too rigid, and eventually plan to build
better flexibility in future walkers, so the frame can self-adjust to hard
foot-impacts.


>
> Once we abandon all the inverse kinematics and pretending humanoid robots are
just human looking machine tools which WILL/MUST work as in the screen
simulation then stuff like being ablr to do the Woz test will naturally follow.
Something I realised the other day is that on the occasions when Asimo has
fallen down there is no recovery procedure for it to follow, once it gets out of
the enveloppe, it locks into the last command position and CRASH.
>
> David
>


This is an interesting thought - abandoning IK. Opposite stance to the totally
computational approach of the past 50-years. Of course, this is what Pfeifer and
Full are also saying. After all, brains don't compute diff-eqs, they largely
reproduce learned patterns of muscle movements, and use sensors and feedback for
real-time adjustments.

OTOH, the motor emulation stuff of Rick Grush is very interesting. Ie, evolved,
predictive motor circuitry in brains.

http://mind.ucsd.edu/






Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:46 pm

oric_dan
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Message #41157 of 41842 |
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Hi Bimbo Town, bit of a mystery. Here Bimbos are good looking air headed women and I guess there must be some at the Bimbo parties. Jim has built several Bimbo...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 9, 2009
3:54 am

... Following link calls Bimbotown "the world's only robotic nightclub". Sounds pretty decriptive. Has some good pictures of the robotic drummer. ...
oric_dan
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Nov 9, 2009
5:46 pm

The Imperial Ladies were Imperial because all the dimensions were based on inches rather than that communist inspired system where nobody actually understands...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 10, 2009
12:47 am

... Thanks for the detailed rundown on the Ladies. To me, the general design of Elizabeth/Robotcop is ideal for both utilitarian work around the house, and...
oric_dan
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Nov 10, 2009
4:06 am

It seems to me, from experience that people who have access to the sort of robot you are dreaming about, don't have any idea of what to do with it, as if it is...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 10, 2009
7:18 pm

... Yeah, another fine example of how the robotics hardware is at least a generation ahead of the software/algorithms for doing AI. However, in the almost...
oric_dan
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Nov 10, 2009
9:32 pm

... What???? ... Yes I took that for granted, but it is very servo dependant, The Hitec servos generally are much better for this than the GWS except the S06...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 11, 2009
1:18 am

... LOL. I meant Cyc as in Lenat's CYC, and was basically thrashing the idea of handcoding every factoid and algorithm. ... Hmm, I did this 3 or 4 years ago,...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
3:34 am

... Update to this. This morning, I dug out my old servo controller that allows the update period to be set as long as 50-msec, and tested it with a Hitec...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
5:43 pm

I've used pretty much all of the servos, they all suffer the same from slow or missing pulses. I hear that the digitals do not, they retain their pulse value...
Dennis Clark
dennis_lm_clark
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Nov 11, 2009
6:00 pm

Going back to David's original comment (I think), then the intent of reducing the refresh rate to the R/C servos is to soften the movements by lowering their...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
6:11 pm

... Yeah, with lower servo-torque, the joints will bend more when the feet hit the ground. I guess what you mean by smaller movements is to use...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
6:35 pm

I wasn't thinking so much of using less acceleration/deceleration, but rather just breaking up the moves into small moves. I suppose one could actually change...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
6:56 pm

... If the velocity per move with several small moves is the same as with one large move, then the acceleration is the same, and nothing has changed. Still get...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
7:16 pm

Changing the update/refresh is an interesting idea, and a lot easer then radically changing the mechanical parts! I think I'll try incorporating it into my...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
7:29 pm

... I was thinking a little more about this. The main problem I saw, when trying to get Nico-6 to go at highest velocity, is that the feet were banging into...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
8:44 pm

I agree, compliance would be the best solution, although complicated. But decelerating shortly before the foot is to contact could help. And making a real...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
9:10 pm

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:10:58 -0800, "Alan Marconett" ... Or you could just use a smarter servo. Bioloid servos (AX, DX, and RX series) all have compliance...
Jon Hylands
hylander_ii
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Nov 11, 2009
6:43 pm

Hi Jon! I hadn't known that about Bioloid servos. I've only worked with my "dumb" Futaba and Hi-Tec servos. Aren't the Bioloid servos bigger? Alan KM6VV...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
7:09 pm

... The Bioloid servos are bigger, more powerful, more expensive, and more power hungry. But, they may also be the wave of the future, like lithium batteries,...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
7:20 pm

... Hi Jon. This brings up an interesting question. Bioloid has been around for a couple of years now, and it's a great system that allows a lot of versatility...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
8:48 pm

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:48:12 -0000, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@...> ... I don't know, to be honest. I know a bunch of people are doing quads/hexes, like this...
Jon Hylands
hylander_ii
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Nov 11, 2009
9:18 pm

... Ah, BF-Hexapod - the ole 6-legged crab walk. Hey, I really like the click-click-clack-clack. Sounds like a 30-YO telephone relay-panel. :) So, you're...
oric_dan
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Nov 11, 2009
11:20 pm

Hi Dan I'm thinking about your last post and the method of either simulating or lookup re feedback parameters. Yes the Hitec are less stiff than GWS, not sure...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 11, 2009
9:48 pm

I don't consider it bad the way analog servos degrade when missing pulses, this is a good thing for robotics, probably bad for RC people, but good for...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 11, 2009
9:50 pm

... The digital servos to which I'm referring are the hobby servo digitals. I've only used analog ones, now I'm curious... DLC ... -- Dennis Clark TTT...
Dennis Clark
dennis_lm_clark
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Nov 11, 2009
9:58 pm

I've experienced that From: David Buckley My only experience with digital servos is the...
don clay
dwc309
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Nov 12, 2009
12:14 pm

Hi Alan Breaking up the move into smaller moves only means each of the smaller moves is done at full torque just the same as the big move. The movements get...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 11, 2009
9:54 pm

Hi David, I can see that, after thinking about it a little. But I do get smoother motion then if I command just one move. I do like the idea of altering the ...
Alan Marconett
km6vv
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Nov 11, 2009
10:31 pm

The problem there is that Bioloid servos are not low cost, ie £6 or so say $10. Maybe if I get some really good jobs I might treat myself but until then or...
David Buckley
robots42
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Nov 11, 2009
10:00 pm
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