Thanks so much for filling in that part of the picture, Phil! Really helpful
insights and information!

- Robin


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "ourcoolhouse" <onlinestoreemail@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> My experiences with FIRST are at all three levels...  FLL (FIRST LEGO League),
FTC and FRC.
>
> All are great programs.  Kevin's explanation was spot on.
>
> One difference Kevin didn't mention between FTC and FRC is the time you have
to build the robot.
>
> With FRC (Big robots) you have about 6 weeks from game release to robot ship,
and you don't get to see your robot between competitions.
>
> With FTC (Smaller robots) you have between 3 and 5 months to build your robot
(depending on when you compete) and you are alowed to modify your robot between
competitions.
>
> Consequently there is more "teaching time" with FTC, and it's not quite as
intense.  This is how the kids are able to do more of the work.  FTC also has
the concept of an "Engineering notebook" which is part of the judging process at
competition.
>
> Yes, FRC is much more demanding, but in many ways it reflects the "real world"
even more closely.  Not enough time, space or processing power to do everything
you need to.
>
> All fun stuff.
> Phil.
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Robin.
> >
> > There are a couple of ways to participate in FIRST. There are two different
programs for high schools.
>

Thanks for the specific suggestion, Doug. It makes sense!

- Robin


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Doug Leppard <Doug.Leppard@...> wrote:
>
> I used to have a robotics hobby, then I got into FIRST seven years ago
> and it destroyed my robotic hobby, no personal time for that.  As it was
> said already it becomes crack for some, it is addictive.
>
>
>
> FIRST is more than robots, kids learn teamwork, how to run a business,
> fund raising, web design, working through team issues, real world
> problem solving, PR and much more.
>
>
>
> There is a real family atmosphere as you go to competitions and there is
> more yelling and screaming than any high school game I have gone to.
>
>
>
> My suggestion if you are just getting started is start with FTC, much
> more manageable and many issues are the same just smaller.
>
>
>
> If you do an FRC get another team to adopt you, they will want to do
> that, FIRST encourages them to do so.  Next for us, the secret is the
> college mentors that have been in FIRST since they were in highs school.
> They bring in a lot of experience being involved in FIRST in the past, I
> am the engineering lead for our team but I turn to our college mentors
> often on the best way to go.
>
>
>
> So go for it, you will have a run for your life.
>
> Doug Leppard
> Global ConneXion Director
> Global Technology Office
> Campus Crusade for Christ International
> Doug.Leppard@...
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of get_imaginary
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:06 PM
> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Perspectives on FIRST?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks so much for filling in that part of the picture, Phil! Really
> helpful insights and information!
>
> - Robin
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , "ourcoolhouse"
> <onlinestoreemail@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > My experiences with FIRST are at all three levels... FLL (FIRST LEGO
> League), FTC and FRC.
> >
> > All are great programs. Kevin's explanation was spot on.
> >
> > One difference Kevin didn't mention between FTC and FRC is the time
> you have to build the robot.
> >
> > With FRC (Big robots) you have about 6 weeks from game release to
> robot ship, and you don't get to see your robot between competitions.
> >
> > With FTC (Smaller robots) you have between 3 and 5 months to build
> your robot (depending on when you compete) and you are alowed to modify
> your robot between competitions.
> >
> > Consequently there is more "teaching time" with FTC, and it's not
> quite as intense. This is how the kids are able to do more of the work.
> FTC also has the concept of an "Engineering notebook" which is part of
> the judging process at competition.
> >
> > Yes, FRC is much more demanding, but in many ways it reflects the
> "real world" even more closely. Not enough time, space or processing
> power to do everything you need to.
> >
> > All fun stuff.
> > Phil.
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Robin.
> > >
> > > There are a couple of ways to participate in FIRST. There are two
> different programs for high schools.
> >
>

i use resistors before for when i design high precision power sources for my
company i work for ,stablizing voltage dift
so most likely it would do the same for execept for in frequency

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Ray Xu <rayxu123@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Remember my thread on here about using a "ovenizing" resistor to stabilize a
> 555 timer (while working on my ultrasonic range finder)?
>
> Well, now I've decided to do something simpler (to both me and the general
> audience); so I've decided to do 555 accuracy vs. junction (chip die)
> temperature.
>
> To the original person who gave me the ovenizing resistor suggestion (and
> others): Where/how did you know that changing the operating temp of the chip
> will affect the performance?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ray Xu
>

While the 555 is actually a pretty nice design, as far as the trick they use to
prevent voltage variations from adversly affecting the freqency, it is still an
RC oscillator. If you need real precision, you should use a crystal oscillator.
If you need REAL stability, then you get into a crystal oven.  If you need to
vary the frequency in steps, you can use the PLL routine and change the
frequency in discrete steps.  If you need a small amount of semi-linear
variation in the frequency, like a VCO, you can "pull" a crystal frency over a
small range by using a varicap diode and appropriate padding caps.  As I recall,
series mode crystals work better for pulling than paralel mode, but check me on
this, my memory isn't what it used to be. :)  Trying to get real precision and
stability out of an RC oscillator takes more effort than it is really worth. 
There are better methods that are MUCH easier to implement. It all depends on
the EXACT application you are going for. As far as die temperature affecting
stability, in the 555 design the biggest variation from that is likely going to
be in the internal voltage divider used to establisht the 1/3 and 2/3 trip
points for the comparator.  As long as the internal resistors track each other
fairly well, which they should being close proximity on the die, a small
variation in die temperature shouldn;t affect accuracy that much.  You greatest
source of error is going to be the external R's and C's used--mostly the
capacitor.  Definately use a high quality cap, like a quality NPO ceramic, that
is designed to have a zero temperature coefficient, has a low leakage dielectric
material, etc.  Metal film low tempco resistors are available, but expensive,
and you may not find the exact value you want.  A wire wound multi-turn trimmer
may be a better choice---wire wound pots, as much as I hate them for their
tendancy to develope flat spots, and skipping from one turn to the next right at
the spot you want to set them at, do have a much better tempco than cermet pots.
Good luck!
David H.
--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Ray Xu <rayxu123@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Remember my thread on here about using a "ovenizing" resistor to stabilize a
> 555 timer (while working on my ultrasonic range finder)?
>
> Well, now I've decided to do something simpler (to both me and the general
> audience); so I've decided to do 555 accuracy vs. junction (chip die)
> temperature.
>
> To the original person who gave me the ovenizing resistor suggestion (and
> others): Where/how did you know that changing the operating temp of the chip
> will affect the performance?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ray Xu
>

Thanks, Doug...I'll keep that in mind ;)

- Robin


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Doug Leppard <Doug.Leppard@...> wrote:
>
> If you have questions or need advice, lots on this list can help and I
> will.
>
>
>
> I agree fully about going to chief Delphi forum is is really helpful and
> love to help newbies.
>
>
>
> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/portal.php
>
>
>
> Doug Leppard
> Global ConneXion Director
> Global Technology Office
> Campus Crusade for Christ International
> Doug.Leppard@...
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of get_imaginary
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:56 AM
> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Perspectives on FIRST?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the specific suggestion, Doug. It makes sense!
>
> - Robin
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , Doug Leppard
> <Doug.Leppard@> wrote:
> >
> > I used to have a robotics hobby, then I got into FIRST seven years ago
> > and it destroyed my robotic hobby, no personal time for that. As it
> was
> > said already it becomes crack for some, it is addictive.
> >
> >
> >
> > FIRST is more than robots, kids learn teamwork, how to run a business,
> > fund raising, web design, working through team issues, real world
> > problem solving, PR and much more.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a real family atmosphere as you go to competitions and there
> is
> > more yelling and screaming than any high school game I have gone to.
> >
> >
> >
> > My suggestion if you are just getting started is start with FTC, much
> > more manageable and many issues are the same just smaller.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you do an FRC get another team to adopt you, they will want to do
> > that, FIRST encourages them to do so. Next for us, the secret is the
> > college mentors that have been in FIRST since they were in highs
> school.
> > They bring in a lot of experience being involved in FIRST in the past,
> I
> > am the engineering lead for our team but I turn to our college mentors
> > often on the best way to go.
> >
> >
> >
> > So go for it, you will have a run for your life.
> >
> > Doug Leppard
> > Global ConneXion Director
> > Global Technology Office
> > Campus Crusade for Christ International
> > Doug.Leppard@
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of get_imaginary
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:06 PM
> > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Perspectives on FIRST?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks so much for filling in that part of the picture, Phil! Really
> > helpful insights and information!
> >
> > - Robin
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , "ourcoolhouse"
> > <onlinestoreemail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > My experiences with FIRST are at all three levels... FLL (FIRST LEGO
> > League), FTC and FRC.
> > >
> > > All are great programs. Kevin's explanation was spot on.
> > >
> > > One difference Kevin didn't mention between FTC and FRC is the time
> > you have to build the robot.
> > >
> > > With FRC (Big robots) you have about 6 weeks from game release to
> > robot ship, and you don't get to see your robot between competitions.
> > >
> > > With FTC (Smaller robots) you have between 3 and 5 months to build
> > your robot (depending on when you compete) and you are alowed to
> modify
> > your robot between competitions.
> > >
> > > Consequently there is more "teaching time" with FTC, and it's not
> > quite as intense. This is how the kids are able to do more of the
> work.
> > FTC also has the concept of an "Engineering notebook" which is part of
> > the judging process at competition.
> > >
> > > Yes, FRC is much more demanding, but in many ways it reflects the
> > "real world" even more closely. Not enough time, space or processing
> > power to do everything you need to.
> > >
> > > All fun stuff.
> > > Phil.
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Robin.
> > > >
> > > > There are a couple of ways to participate in FIRST. There are two
> > different programs for high schools.
> > >
> >
>

I have purchased a rf transmitter link below with datasheet pdf

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3100

and a rf receiver link below with datasheet pdf

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3102

I would like to know how to implement the transmitter to the pc via serial port
and how to implement the receiver via a bs2 so i can control a LED wirelessly
using a pc.

Im starting off with something simple like turning a LED on and OFF and then
working out how to turn a servo.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

That looks similar to a module that Sparkfun sells. They have some
documentation linked from their site:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8950

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:34 PM, g_thorpe2002<g_thorpe2002@...> wrote:
> I have purchased a rf transmitter link below with datasheet pdf
>
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3100
>
> and a rf receiver link below with datasheet pdf
>
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3102
>
> I would like to know how to implement the transmitter to the pc via serial
port
> and how to implement the receiver via a bs2 so i can control a LED wirelessly
> using a pc.
>
> Im starting off with something simple like turning a LED on and OFF and then
> working out how to turn a servo.
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the help its great to come across groups like this where you dont get
critisised for not knowing much. Thanks again Mike.



--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:
>
> That looks similar to a module that Sparkfun sells. They have some
> documentation linked from their site:
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8950
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:34 PM, g_thorpe2002<g_thorpe2002@...> wrote:
> > I have purchased a rf transmitter link below with datasheet pdf
> >
> > http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3100
> >
> > and a rf receiver link below with datasheet pdf
> >
> > http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3102
> >
> > I would like to know how to implement the transmitter to the pc via serial
port
> > and how to implement the receiver via a bs2 so i can control a LED
wirelessly
> > using a pc.
> >
> > Im starting off with something simple like turning a LED on and OFF and then
> > working out how to turn a servo.
> >
> > Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I've used cheap transmitter/receivers very like that (but not that exact
model) and found that they're AC coupled.

What that means is that if you send a stream of alternatate 1 and 0 it gets
through fine but if you send just continuous 1 or continuous 0 then the
output from the receiver soon goes to an intermediate value.

That's a common problem for a lot of different digital data storage and
transmission devices and various techniques have been developed to overcome
it such as "bit stuffing" and "Kansas City" or "Manchester" encoding. The
general idea is to make sure you never send a long stream of 0 or a long
stream of 1 even if the data includes such streams.

I'm not saying that your transmitter/receiver will have such problems but it
could well do and it's something you should be aware of.

The question is, exactly how soon does the receiver go to an intermediate
value?

Serial data from a PC has the format
     "1" start bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "d" data bit
     "0" stop bit
So even if the data includes a stream of 0 or a stream of 1, the bits sent
to the transmitter will include a few 1s and 0s. That might be enough for
your transmitter/receiver. Is your receiver capable of correctly receiving
eight 0 bits or eight 1 bits in a row? You'll just have to try it and see.

A simple test is to connect the transmitter to the serial port of a PC. If
you like, you can power the transmitter from the RTS line of the serial
port. A serial port produces 9V so you'll have to reduce that to whatever
voltage your transmitter needs - probably 5V. Use a 7805 chip. Then do the
same for your receiver in a different laptop PC. Get the transmitter PC to
produce a stream of serial data. There are lots of free serial port test
programs available that will do that (for instance my RS232.exe
http://www.peterbalch.btinternet.co.uk/prb00047.htm will just "count" to the
serial port).
Then walk around the house with the laptop and see how far away you can
still receive data reliably (RS232.exe will check that it's receiving a
valid "count"). That's a good test I always do with any new
transmitter/receiver pair.

As you can imagine, the problems get worse as the distance from the
transmitter increases. The solution is to make sure that your data always
includes plenty of 10 or 01 pairs.

For instance, to turn on your LED, you might want to send the data byte 0xAA
(which is 10101010) and to turn if off, send the data byte 0x55 (which is
01010101). That has a much better chance of getting through reliably than
sending 00000000 and 11111111.

If you're sending more complex commands to a robot, then choose a command
set that includes lots of bit changes. Here are 16 different commands each
fitting into a single byte:
     01010101  forward
     01010110  reverse
     01011001  stop
     01011010  forward right
     01100101  reverse right
     01100110  forward left
     01101001  reverse left
     01101010  spin left
     10010101  spin right
     10010110  front lights on
     10011001  front lights off
     10011010  rear lights on
     10100101  rear lights off
     10100110  beeper on
     10101001  beeper off
     10101010  shut down

Unfortunately, you've halved your data rate but for simple robots that's
often not a big problem. And it's very easy to tell if the data has been
corrupted - if the byte you receive is not in that set of 16 then just
ignore it.

Peter

Thanks for the advice peter. On the data sheet it said the max voltage of my
transmitter is 3volts. Is there another chip i can use to get the voltage down
further?


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Balch" <peterbalch@...> wrote:
>
> I've used cheap transmitter/receivers very like that (but not that exact
> model) and found that they're AC coupled.
>
> What that means is that if you send a stream of alternatate 1 and 0 it gets
> through fine but if you send just continuous 1 or continuous 0 then the
> output from the receiver soon goes to an intermediate value.
>
> That's a common problem for a lot of different digital data storage and
> transmission devices and various techniques have been developed to overcome
> it such as "bit stuffing" and "Kansas City" or "Manchester" encoding. The
> general idea is to make sure you never send a long stream of 0 or a long
> stream of 1 even if the data includes such streams.
>
> I'm not saying that your transmitter/receiver will have such problems but it
> could well do and it's something you should be aware of.
>
> The question is, exactly how soon does the receiver go to an intermediate
> value?
>
> Serial data from a PC has the format
>     "1" start bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "d" data bit
>     "0" stop bit
> So even if the data includes a stream of 0 or a stream of 1, the bits sent
> to the transmitter will include a few 1s and 0s. That might be enough for
> your transmitter/receiver. Is your receiver capable of correctly receiving
> eight 0 bits or eight 1 bits in a row? You'll just have to try it and see.
>
> A simple test is to connect the transmitter to the serial port of a PC. If
> you like, you can power the transmitter from the RTS line of the serial
> port. A serial port produces 9V so you'll have to reduce that to whatever
> voltage your transmitter needs - probably 5V. Use a 7805 chip. Then do the
> same for your receiver in a different laptop PC. Get the transmitter PC to
> produce a stream of serial data. There are lots of free serial port test
> programs available that will do that (for instance my RS232.exe
> http://www.peterbalch.btinternet.co.uk/prb00047.htm will just "count" to the
> serial port).
> Then walk around the house with the laptop and see how far away you can
> still receive data reliably (RS232.exe will check that it's receiving a
> valid "count"). That's a good test I always do with any new
> transmitter/receiver pair.
>
> As you can imagine, the problems get worse as the distance from the
> transmitter increases. The solution is to make sure that your data always
> includes plenty of 10 or 01 pairs.
>
> For instance, to turn on your LED, you might want to send the data byte 0xAA
> (which is 10101010) and to turn if off, send the data byte 0x55 (which is
> 01010101). That has a much better chance of getting through reliably than
> sending 00000000 and 11111111.
>
> If you're sending more complex commands to a robot, then choose a command
> set that includes lots of bit changes. Here are 16 different commands each
> fitting into a single byte:
>     01010101  forward
>     01010110  reverse
>     01011001  stop
>     01011010  forward right
>     01100101  reverse right
>     01100110  forward left
>     01101001  reverse left
>     01101010  spin left
>     10010101  spin right
>     10010110  front lights on
>     10011001  front lights off
>     10011010  rear lights on
>     10100101  rear lights off
>     10100110  beeper on
>     10101001  beeper off
>     10101010  shut down
>
> Unfortunately, you've halved your data rate but for simple robots that's
> often not a big problem. And it's very easy to tell if the data has been
> corrupted - if the byte you receive is not in that set of 16 then just
> ignore it.
>
> Peter
>

> On the data sheet it said the max voltage of my transmitter is 3volts. Is
> there another chip i can use to get the voltage down further?

Allegedly, the 7803 exists but I've never seen one. Maybe use a LM317
adjustable regulator and a couple of resistors. There are fixed voltage regs
that will give 3V from a 5V supply (but I don't know one that will do it
from 9V).

I'd probably just use a zener diode and a resistor to make 3V from the 9V of
RTS. (I've got a drawer full of zeners but no drawer full of LM317s.)

For testing, you could just power it from 2 AA cells.

You'll also have to worry whether the 9V of the TX pin of the PC serial port
will damage the transmitter. Again, I'd use a zener and resistor to clip the
Tx signal down to 0V..5V.  But if I didn't have a zener and was being lazy,
I'd just use a 100k resistor to limit the current into the tranmitter's data
pin and hope for the best.

Peter

I think your right for testing right now ill just use two AA batteries :D

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Balch" <peterbalch@...> wrote:
>
> > On the data sheet it said the max voltage of my transmitter is 3volts. Is
> > there another chip i can use to get the voltage down further?
>
> Allegedly, the 7803 exists but I've never seen one. Maybe use a LM317
> adjustable regulator and a couple of resistors. There are fixed voltage regs
> that will give 3V from a 5V supply (but I don't know one that will do it
> from 9V).
>
> I'd probably just use a zener diode and a resistor to make 3V from the 9V of
> RTS. (I've got a drawer full of zeners but no drawer full of LM317s.)
>
> For testing, you could just power it from 2 AA cells.
>
> You'll also have to worry whether the 9V of the TX pin of the PC serial port
> will damage the transmitter. Again, I'd use a zener and resistor to clip the
> Tx signal down to 0V..5V.  But if I didn't have a zener and was being lazy,
> I'd just use a 100k resistor to limit the current into the tranmitter's data
> pin and hope for the best.
>
> Peter
>

A LM1117MP-3.3/NOPB will generate 3.3V.  Will that work?

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll

The pinout is different than that of the 78xx series.

To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Peter Balch" <peterbalch@...>
Date sent: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:12:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: RF ROBOT
Send reply to: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com

> > On the data sheet it said the max voltage of my transmitter is
> > 3volts. Is there another chip i can use to get the voltage down
> > further?
>
> Allegedly, the 7803 exists but I've never seen one. Maybe use a LM317
> adjustable regulator and a couple of resistors. There are fixed
> voltage regs that will give 3V from a 5V supply (but I don't know one
> that will do it from 9V).
>
> I'd probably just use a zener diode and a resistor to make 3V from the
> 9V of RTS. (I've got a drawer full of zeners but no drawer full of
> LM317s.)
>
> For testing, you could just power it from 2 AA cells.
>
> You'll also have to worry whether the 9V of the TX pin of the PC
> serial port will damage the transmitter. Again, I'd use a zener and
> resistor to clip the Tx signal down to 0V..5V.  But if I didn't have a
> zener and was being lazy, I'd just use a 100k resistor to limit the
> current into the tranmitter's data pin and hope for the best.
>
> Peter
>
>

i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full install of vc++
2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer with only the run type
files,i was given this webpage and tried the idea and doesnt seem to work ,i
think it the manifest file is not linked to exe program
it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a manifest file and
call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where exe program is,it doent work
has anyone tried this idea ?
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...>
wrote:
>
> i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full install of
vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer with only the run type
files,i was given this webpage and tried the idea and doesnt seem to work ,i
think it the manifest file is not linked to exe program
> it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a manifest file and
call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where exe program is,it doent work
> has anyone tried this idea ?
> http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
>


Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously the trained
experts, so they should know what they're doing.

What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it at least a
WinXP with SP2 machine?

For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not VC++] in the
2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the .EXE executables, with
no install files, to other people to see it they would run ok. And they run
fine.

It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime compiler
already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will normally mean having a
WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe comes comes with .NET framework
installed as part of the OS. Just a guess, not an expert.

running lastest windows xp pro
with net installed

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@>
wrote:
> >
> > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full install of
vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer with only the run type
files,i was given this webpage and tried the idea and doesnt seem to work ,i
think it the manifest file is not linked to exe program
> > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a manifest file
and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where exe program is,it doent
work
> > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> >
>
>
> Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously the trained
experts, so they should know what they're doing.
>
> What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it at least a
WinXP with SP2 machine?
>
> For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not VC++] in
the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the .EXE executables,
with no install files, to other people to see it they would run ok. And they run
fine.
>
> It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime compiler
already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will normally mean having a
WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe comes comes with .NET framework
installed as part of the OS. Just a guess, not an expert.
>

I have never been able to run an executable compiled with express on a
different machine.  In every case, the program had to be compiled on the
machine where I wanted to run it.  This problem does not occur if you
use a non-express compiler.

jamericanfreddy wrote:
>
>
> running lastest windows xp pro
> with net installed
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "jamericanfreddy"
> <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full
> install of vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer
> with only the run type files,i was given this webpage and tried the
> idea and doesnt seem to work ,i think it the manifest file is not
> linked to exe program
> > > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a
> manifest file and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where
> exe program is,it doent work
> > > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > >
> http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> <http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1>
> > >
> >
> >
> > Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously
> the trained experts, so they should know what they're doing.
> >
> > What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it
> at least a WinXP with SP2 machine?
> >
> > For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not
> VC++] in the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the
> .EXE executables, with no install files, to other people to see it
> they would run ok. And they run fine.
> >
> > It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime
> compiler already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will
> normally mean having a WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe
> comes comes with .NET framework installed as part of the OS. Just a
> guess, not an expert.
> >
>
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tony Mactutis <tony@...> wrote:
>
> I have never been able to run an executable compiled with express on a 
different machine.  In every case, the program had to be compiled on the >
machine where I wanted to run it.  This problem does not occur if you > use a
non-express compiler.
>


Interesting. I wonder why it works for me. Can I send you one of my Express
generated .EXEs to see what happens?



> jamericanfreddy wrote:
> >
> >
> > running lastest windows xp pro
> > with net installed
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "jamericanfreddy"
> > <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full
> > install of vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer
> > with only the run type files,i was given this webpage and tried the
> > idea and doesnt seem to work ,i think it the manifest file is not
> > linked to exe program
> > > > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a
> > manifest file and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where
> > exe program is,it doent work
> > > > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > > >
> > http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> > <http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously
> > the trained experts, so they should know what they're doing.
> > >
> > > What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it
> > at least a WinXP with SP2 machine?
> > >
> > > For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not
> > VC++] in the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the
> > .EXE executables, with no install files, to other people to see it
> > they would run ok. And they run fine.
> > >
> > > It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime
> > compiler already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will
> > normally mean having a WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe
> > comes comes with .NET framework installed as part of the OS. Just a
> > guess, not an expert.
> > >
> >
> >
>

i triedinstalling full install of vc++ 2008 express and program works then
deleted all vc++ files in windows/programs and it works
didnt use the uninstall program only deleted the folder
i think it will  cause problems in regedit
hopping to find someone who use the runtime idea
300meg or more is alot on a robot computer harddrive
i have intel itx board dual 2 quad 4 processor with ssd card with trimmed
version of windows xp pro install


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tony Mactutis <tony@...> wrote:
>
> I have never been able to run an executable compiled with express on a
> different machine.  In every case, the program had to be compiled on the
> machine where I wanted to run it.  This problem does not occur if you
> use a non-express compiler.
>
> jamericanfreddy wrote:
> >
> >
> > running lastest windows xp pro
> > with net installed
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "jamericanfreddy"
> > <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full
> > install of vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer
> > with only the run type files,i was given this webpage and tried the
> > idea and doesnt seem to work ,i think it the manifest file is not
> > linked to exe program
> > > > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a
> > manifest file and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where
> > exe program is,it doent work
> > > > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > > >
> > http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> > <http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously
> > the trained experts, so they should know what they're doing.
> > >
> > > What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it
> > at least a WinXP with SP2 machine?
> > >
> > > For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not
> > VC++] in the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the
> > .EXE executables, with no install files, to other people to see it
> > they would run ok. And they run fine.
> > >
> > > It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime
> > compiler already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will
> > normally mean having a WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe
> > comes comes with .NET framework installed as part of the OS. Just a
> > guess, not an expert.
> > >
> >
> >
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...>
wrote:
>


Difficult to follow your post. Are you sure .NET is installed on the ITX system?
Also, have you tried your executables on another desktop or notebook machine
with full operating system installed?


> i triedinstalling full install of vc++ 2008 express and program works then
deleted all vc++ files in windows/programs and it works
> didnt use the uninstall program only deleted the folder
> i think it will  cause problems in regedit
> hopping to find someone who use the runtime idea
> 300meg or more is alot on a robot computer harddrive
> i have intel itx board dual 2 quad 4 processor with ssd card with trimmed
version of windows xp pro install
>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tony Mactutis <tony@> wrote:
> >
> > I have never been able to run an executable compiled with express on a
> > different machine.  In every case, the program had to be compiled on the
> > machine where I wanted to run it.  This problem does not occur if you
> > use a non-express compiler.
> >
> > jamericanfreddy wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > running lastest windows xp pro
> > > with net installed
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "jamericanfreddy"
> > > <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full
> > > install of vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer
> > > with only the run type files,i was given this webpage and tried the
> > > idea and doesnt seem to work ,i think it the manifest file is not
> > > linked to exe program
> > > > > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a
> > > manifest file and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where
> > > exe program is,it doent work
> > > > > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > > > >
> > > http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> > > <http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously
> > > the trained experts, so they should know what they're doing.
> > > >
> > > > What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it
> > > at least a WinXP with SP2 machine?
> > > >
> > > > For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not
> > > VC++] in the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the
> > > .EXE executables, with no install files, to other people to see it
> > > they would run ok. And they run fine.
> > > >
> > > > It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime
> > > compiler already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will
> > > normally mean having a WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe
> > > comes comes with .NET framework installed as part of the OS. Just a
> > > guess, not an expert.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

I have had that issue (with different compilers) in the past.   Find depends.exe
somewhere on the net and run it on your target machine.   It will tell you what
files you need to have installed... what files your program 'depends' on.

-Jack

Hi everyone,
  I am new to the forum and robot building, and I wanted to know what is the best
microcontroller I can buy. I am looking for something that has alot of memory
and a high processing speed. Any recomendatioin?

yes i have .NET installed latest version 3.5
check my exe on another computer with full C++ 2008 express installed and work
ok
on making the manifest it does say how to save in using ,unicode,or utf-8 or
ascii,but from the header of manifest i see utf-8,so i save it that way


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@>
wrote:
> >
>
>
> Difficult to follow your post. Are you sure .NET is installed on the ITX
system? Also, have you tried your executables on another desktop or notebook
machine with full operating system installed?
>
>
> > i triedinstalling full install of vc++ 2008 express and program works then
deleted all vc++ files in windows/programs and it works
> > didnt use the uninstall program only deleted the folder
> > i think it will  cause problems in regedit
> > hopping to find someone who use the runtime idea
> > 300meg or more is alot on a robot computer harddrive
> > i have intel itx board dual 2 quad 4 processor with ssd card with trimmed
version of windows xp pro install
> >
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tony Mactutis <tony@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have never been able to run an executable compiled with express on a
> > > different machine.  In every case, the program had to be compiled on the
> > > machine where I wanted to run it.  This problem does not occur if you
> > > use a non-express compiler.
> > >
> > > jamericanfreddy wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > running lastest windows xp pro
> > > > with net installed
> > > >
> > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "oric_dan" <oric_dan@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>, "jamericanfreddy"
> > > > <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i have a exe program on my main computer running great with full
> > > > install of vc++ 2008 express,on want to run it on my robot computer
> > > > with only the run type files,i was given this webpage and tried the
> > > > idea and doesnt seem to work ,i think it the manifest file is not
> > > > linked to exe program
> > > > > > it says to make a folder and place a few dll's ,plus make a
> > > > manifest file and call the folder microsoft.vc90.crt and place where
> > > > exe program is,it doent work
> > > > > > has anyone tried this idea ?
> > > > > >
> > > > http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1
> > > > <http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=164465&SiteID=1>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Those guys making the suggestions on the MSDN forum are obviously
> > > > the trained experts, so they should know what they're doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > What is this "my robot computer" that you are talking about? Is it
> > > > at least a WinXP with SP2 machine?
> > > > >
> > > > > For my part, I'm no expert, but have been using VB and VC# [but not
> > > > VC++] in the 2005 and 2008 versions on my WinXP. I have sent just the
> > > > .EXE executables, with no install files, to other people to see it
> > > > they would run ok. And they run fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's my understanding you need a machine that has the .NET runtime
> > > > compiler already installed to get a bare .EXE to run. This will
> > > > normally mean having a WinXP SP2 or later machine, which I believe
> > > > comes comes with .NET framework installed as part of the OS. Just a
> > > > guess, not an expert.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

was a good idea ,i found depends.exe in microsoft support tools i downloaded it
and tried it,i have all files needed in my system32 folder
made a microsoft.vc90.debugcrt folder ,since it using debug dll's
and manifest file,still not working


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "raefsel" <all.yahoo2007@...> wrote:
>
> I have had that issue (with different compilers) in the past.   Find
depends.exe somewhere on the net and run it on your target machine.   It will
tell you what files you need to have installed... what files your program
'depends' on.
>
> -Jack
>

found out it had some errors in manifest file ,like changing 80' to 90' to match
the dll's,now i get a command line,but stops with a error code 0xc0150002 and
look at the event viewer and saw it was manifest error ,with post manifest info
here ,if anyone can find the error
i read the link about changing 80's to 90's and version # for a debug version

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
<!-- Copyright © 1981-2001 Microsoft Corporation -->
<assembly xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" manifestVersion="1.0">
     <noInheritable/>
     <assemblyIdentity
         type="win32"
         name="Microsoft.VC90.DebugCRT"
         version="9.0.21022.8"
         processorArchitecture="x86"
         publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b"
     />
     <file name="msvcr90d.dll"/>
     <file name="msvcp90d.dll"/>
     <file name="msvcm90d.dll"/>
</assembly>


also what do i save as in notepad ascii or utf-8 or unicode
doesnt say in article


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...>
wrote:
>
> was a good idea ,i found depends.exe in microsoft support tools i downloaded
it and tried it,i have all files needed in my system32 folder
> made a microsoft.vc90.debugcrt folder ,since it using debug dll's
> and manifest file,still not working
>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "raefsel" <all.yahoo2007@> wrote:
> >
> > I have had that issue (with different compilers) in the past.   Find
depends.exe somewhere on the net and run it on your target machine.   It will
tell you what files you need to have installed... what files your program
'depends' on.
> >
> > -Jack
> >
>