Just in-case some of you missed this one..

http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/02/a-robot-in-every-korean-kindergarten-by-201\
3/

I, for one, think there's a lot more potential for robotic teachers
than this.  Chatbots can work well if well developed on a particular
subject.  The main advantages would be:

(1) Consistency in teaching.
(2) Potential for mass peer review of it's content, including teaching methods.
(3) Cost reduction and more attention per student.

Important aspects could ideally include:

(4) Ability to revert student statements to a real person when no
valid response is known.
(5) Ability to post-review and enhance its conversation/interaction script.
(6) Tendency to identify a bored or distracted audience and act to
regain their attention.
(7) No bad hair days or differences in energy from day to day.

My own chatbot software could do well, I think, if enough resources
were available to develop the conversation/interaction script for a
given subject.

I sometimes think that perhaps a good future model for universities
might be that professors program content and teaching methods,
reviewing its interactions periodically to improve on weak points, and
otherwise focusing on research.  During the first semester, you should
have the auto-teacher refer situations for which it has no programmed
response back to the professor in real-time, but ultimately, the job
of periodic content updates from the field shouldn't be so hard.

For assessment, use the peer and community assessment rubrics so your
work is greatly minimized, while at the same time being able to say
you are using so-called "authentic teaching and learning"
methodologies.  Perhaps give lectures on your research, do student
advising, and committee work, but otherwise focus on research.
Everyone wins.

Matthew

Saw this one the news tonite. Like wii for gaming, but no handheld
controller. Must have petty good computer vision routines.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/kinect

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@...> wrote:
>


Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.

??? Got any idea?



> Here's a little article on how it works.
> http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
>
> --
> David Li
> Mechanical Engineering
>
> Chassis Team Member
> University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
>
> Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> Engineers Without Borders
> (425) 736-2357
> lidavidc@...
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@...> wrote:
>


Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
of thing. Answers a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera


>
> google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on the >
sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will probably >
improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the past 3-4
> years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US. It's >
widely used in robotics research in Europe.
>
> - Robin
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: dan michaels <oric_dan@...>
> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> >
>
>
> Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
>
> ??? Got any idea?
>
>
>
> > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> >
> > --
> > David Li
> > Mechanical Engineering
> >
> > Chassis Team Member
> > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> >
> > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > Engineers Without Borders
> > (425) 736-2357
> > lidavidc@
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Robin Hewitt

To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:31 PM

Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect

 

google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on the sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will probably improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the past 3-4 years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US. It's widely used in robotics research in Europe.

- Robin

---

From: dan michaels <oric_dan@...>
To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@...> wrote:
>


Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.

??? Got any idea?



> Here's a little article on how it works.
> http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
>
> --
> David Li
> Mechanical Engineering
>
> Chassis Team Member
> University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
>
> Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> Engineers Without Borders
> (425) 736-2357
> lidavidc@...
>




------------------------------------

Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links

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I am just moving into new living quarters, and visiting Home Depot
daily. I chanced to pick a "stud sensor" yesterday, and thought I
would pass along some info. Might have some use for robotics.

http://www.zircon.com/products/edge_ss_edge.html

I don't have my oscilloscope out of storage yet, so don't know
exactly how it works. However, it's very easy to take apart and
has a small pcb, about 2.5" x 1.5". Runs off a 9v battery. The
sensor part is an area of filled-in pcb copper about 1" x 1" with
a couple of narrow copper traces along the sides. I assume it's
some sort of oscillator with capacitive tuning.

Has a useful range of about 1" in free space, and sensitive to
metals, wood, glass, human bodies, books, etc. Sensitivity drops
to about 0.5" for materials like thin plastic, cardboard, paper.

Might be useful as a close-in proximity sensor. Not too
expanesive at $10 for the Zircon-Edge unit.

OT: The Riverside Robot Expo 2010!

For those local to S. California, THIS Saturday, the Riverside Robotics Society
is putting on its annual Riverside Robot Expo 2010.

It is a kid-friendly event.

Free admission
Free refreshments
Free lectures on robots and robotics

You will see many, many robots of all sizes and shapes including life-size
robots and toys robots.

Highlights include:

- Alex Brown's Leaf, AI Robot
- Mike Senna's Life-size R2D2 replica
- A Life-size Lost in Space Robot (B9) replica
- A Life-size Terminator T600 replica
- A Life-size singing Elvis Presley Robot
- Robot Betty9, the Singing Android
- 1/2 scale Wall-e
- Alex Brown's Leaf, AI Robot
- Art Robots (Artbots)
- Albert Taylor's GhostBot
- Demonstrations in line following
- Demonstrations in mini sumobots
And MORE!

Best selling author Albert Taylor will talk about the paranormal and ghost
hunting with his GhostBot. -

A demonstrations in artificial intelligence, robot vision, and speech
recognition. -

A demonstration and performance on a LASER HARP! -

The Build-a-Bot workshop where you will see an Arduino-controlled robot built
and programmed in just a few minutes.

Place: Riverside Woodcrest Community Library 16625 Krameria, Riverside 92504

Date: Saturday November 6th Time: 12 Noon to 4 pm

I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's mode of
operation.
PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business
obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488

Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
which looks like a clever riff on structured light

Cheers,
   Chuck



--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@...> wrote:
>
> Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from these
> things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I started
> attending conferences on computer vision.
>
> - Robin
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: dan michaels <oric_dan@...>
> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> >
>
>
> Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> of thing. Answers a lot.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
>
>
> >
> > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on the
>
> >sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will
probably >
> >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
> >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the past
3-4
> >
> > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US. It's
>
> >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> >
> > - Robin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> >
> > ??? Got any idea?
> >
> >
> >
> > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Li
> > > Mechanical Engineering
> > >
> > > Chassis Team Member
> > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > >
> > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > (425) 736-2357
> > > lidavidc@
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
>

Actually, THIS is the speckle patent I was looking at
http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Method-system-object-reconstruction/WO2007\
043036A1.pdf

C


--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@...> wrote:
>
> I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's mode
of operation.
> PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business
obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
>
> Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
> http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
> which looks like a clever riff on structured light
>
> Cheers,
>   Chuck
>
>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> >
> > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from these
> > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I started
> > attending conferences on computer vision.
> >
> > - Robin
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> > of thing. Answers a lot.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
> >
> >
> > >
> > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on
the >
> > >sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will
probably >
> > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
> > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the
past 3-4
> > >
> > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US.
It's >
> > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> > >
> > > - Robin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> > >
> > > ??? Got any idea?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Li
> > > > Mechanical Engineering
> > > >
> > > > Chassis Team Member
> > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > > >
> > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > > (425) 736-2357
> > > > lidavidc@
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@...> wrote:
>
> I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's mode
of operation.
> PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business
obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
>
> Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
> http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
> which looks like a clever riff on structured light
>
> Cheers,
>   Chuck
>


My first guess was structured light, but that's not hardly the
same as time-of-flight, as indicated on the M$ site, and probably wouldn't
require newer faster technology.


>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> >
> > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from these
> > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I started
> > attending conferences on computer vision.
> >
> > - Robin
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> > of thing. Answers a lot.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
> >
> >
> > >
> > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on
the >
> > >sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will
probably >
> > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
> > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the
past 3-4
> > >
> > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US.
It's >
> > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> > >
> > > - Robin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> > >
> > > ??? Got any idea?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Li
> > > > Mechanical Engineering
> > > >
> > > > Chassis Team Member
> > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > > >
> > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > > (425) 736-2357
> > > > lidavidc@
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

dig thru this for a mixed bag of info
http://cerberus.fileburst.net/showthread.php?t=57790

It looks like spots, possibly like another of those patents I pointed to earlier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nRKU0nFxA

Don't put too much faith in the TOF FUD

Cheers,
   Chuck




--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, THIS is the speckle patent I was looking at
>
http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Method-system-object-reconstruction/WO2007\
043036A1.pdf
>
> C
>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
> >
> > I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's
mode of operation.
> > PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business
obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
> >
> > Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
> > http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
> > which looks like a clever riff on structured light
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from
these
> > > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I
started
> > > attending conferences on computer vision.
> > >
> > > - Robin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> > > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> > > of thing. Answers a lot.
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on
the >
> > > >sensor.  The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will
probably >
> > > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but
>
> > > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the
past 3-4
> > > >
> > > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US.
It's >
> > > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> > > >
> > > > - Robin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > > >
> > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> > > >
> > > > ??? Got any idea?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David Li
> > > > > Mechanical Engineering
> > > > >
> > > > > Chassis Team Member
> > > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > > > >
> > > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > > > (425) 736-2357
> > > > > lidavidc@
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups
Links
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: c_f_harrison

To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:39 PM

Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect

 

dig thru this for a mixed bag of info
http://cerberus.fileburst.net/showthread.php?t=57790

It looks like spots, possibly like another of those patents I pointed to earlier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nRKU0nFxA

Don't put too much faith in the TOF FUD

Cheers,
Chuck

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, THIS is the speckle patent I was looking at
> http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Method-system-object-reconstruction/WO2007043036A1.pdf
>
> C
>
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
> >
> > I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's mode of operation.
> > PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
> >
> > Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
> > http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
> > which looks like a clever riff on structured light
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from these
> > > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I started
> > > attending conferences on computer vision.
> > >
> > > - Robin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> > > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> > > of thing. Answers a lot.
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on the >
> > > >sensor. The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will probably >
> > > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
> > > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the past 3-4
> > > >
> > > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US. It's >
> > > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> > > >
> > > > - Robin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > > >
> > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> > > >
> > > > ??? Got any idea?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David Li
> > > > > Mechanical Engineering
> > > > >
> > > > > Chassis Team Member
> > > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > > > >
> > > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > > > (425) 736-2357
> > > > > lidavidc@
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "David Buckley" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting Video


That's a brilliant video [in the sense of smart rather than
intense]. 1000s and 1000s of points spewed around the room. The
point scatter looks to be many times larger than any pickup
image-sensor resolution. From the quick shots he has of the
Kinect box, it looks like some kind of scanning output. Possibly
they are using DLP devices to scatter the beam.

http://www.dlp.com/



> There we have the laser speckle talked about (probably) for the high
brightness.
> The links I posted earlier
> http://www.ifm-electronic.com/obj/O1D_Paper-PMD.pdf
> http://www.wseas.us/e-library/transactions/information/2009/29-562.pdf
> describe a method  not of TOF but of phase change of a modulated light and a
switched gate over the pixels so the phase change can be measured easilly
without having to do individual pixel counting at nanosecond speeds. the gate is
probably very cheap to implement.
> David
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: c_f_harrison
>   To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:39 PM
>   Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>
>
>
>   dig thru this for a mixed bag of info
>   http://cerberus.fileburst.net/showthread.php?t=57790
>
>   It looks like spots, possibly like another of those patents I pointed to
earlier
>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nRKU0nFxA
>
>   Don't put too much faith in the TOF FUD
>
>   Cheers,
>   Chuck
>
>   --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Actually, THIS is the speckle patent I was looking at
>   >
http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Method-system-object-reconstruction/WO2007\
043036A1.pdf
>   >
>   > C
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's
mode of operation.
>   > > PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business
obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
>   > >
>   > > Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
>   > > http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
>   > > which looks like a clever riff on structured light
>   > >
>   > > Cheers,
>   > > Chuck
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@>
wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from
these
>   > > > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I
started
>   > > > attending conferences on computer vision.
>   > > >
>   > > > - Robin
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > ________________________________
>   > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
>   > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
>   > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
>   > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@>
wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
>   > > > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
>   > > > of thing. Answers a lot.
>   > > >
>   > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more
information on the >
>   > > > >sensor. The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will
probably >
>   > > > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile,
but >
>   > > > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in
the past 3-4
>   > > > >
>   > > > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the
US. It's >
>   > > > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > - Robin
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > ________________________________
>   > > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
>   > > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
>   > > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
>   > > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>   > > > >
>   > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
>   > > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
>   > > > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > ??? Got any idea?
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
>   > > > > >
http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > --
>   > > > > > David Li
>   > > > > > Mechanical Engineering
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Chassis Team Member
>   > > > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
>   > > > > > Engineers Without Borders
>   > > > > > (425) 736-2357
>   > > > > > lidavidc@
>   > > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > ------------------------------------
>   > > > >
>   > > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups
Links
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > ------------------------------------
>   > > >
>   > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups
Links
>   > > >
>   > >
>   >
>

Dan

> I chanced to pick a "stud sensor" yesterday, and thought I
> would pass along some info. Might have some use for robotics.
> http://www.zircon.com/products/edge_ss_edge.html
> I don't have my oscilloscope out of storage yet, so don't know
> exactly how it works.

Here's a rather old-fashioned schematic:
http://members.shaw.ca/novotill/StudSensorAutomatic/index.htm

Personally, I'd use the same circuit as a CMOS Theremin:
http://www.thereminworld.com/pics/schematics/simple.jpg
which I've found to be a very simple way of making a sensitive cap meter.

Or, if you don't have any schmidt CMOS gates handy, use U1a U1b U2a U2B of
this:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13404

Those two oscillators run at a few MHz. The trick is, of course, to adjust
them until they're both about the same freq then "mix" the two oscillator
outputs using a NAND gate. Listen to the output of the NAND with an
earpiece. (I don't know why the above circuit uses an analogue mixer -
perhaps it gives a nicer tone.)

One of the big problems with theremins is keeping the two oscillators from
seeing each others signal and syncing.

I believe that some modern capacitance detectors use the RC oscillator of a
PIC clock - the C part is affected by external capacitance of the stud. The
PIC measures its own clock freq with an RC connected to one of its I/O pins.
There used to be a Microchip app note but I can't find it. The advantage is
that the PIC can "calibrate" itself when it's switched on and only report
changes in freq.

> The
> sensor part is an area of filled-in pcb copper about 1" x 1" with
> a couple of narrow copper traces along the sides.

Like this?
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13404

Peter

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Balch" <peterbalch@...> wrote:
>

...........
> > The
> > sensor part is an area of filled-in pcb copper about 1" x 1" with
> > a couple of narrow copper traces along the sides.
>
> Like this?
> http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13404
>


Similar to that, but no cutout in the middle. The area of that
one appears to be roughly 3X larger than on the EDGE unit, which probably
explains why the EDGE is only sensitive to about 1", while
the one on the link apparently senses to 3".

----- Original Message -----              

From: dan michaels

To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 12:24 AM

Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect

 

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "David Buckley" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting Video

That's a brilliant video [in the sense of smart rather than
intense]. 1000s and 1000s of points spewed around the room. The
point scatter looks to be many times larger than any pickup
image-sensor resolution. From the quick shots he has of the
Kinect box, it looks like some kind of scanning output. Possibly
they are using DLP devices to scatter the beam.

http://www.dlp.com/

> There we have the laser speckle talked about (probably) for the high brightness.
> The links I posted earlier
> http://www.ifm-electronic.com/obj/O1D_Paper-PMD.pdf
> http://www.wseas.us/e-library/transactions/information/2009/29-562.pdf
> describe a method not of TOF but of phase change of a modulated light and a switched gate over the pixels so the phase change can be measured easilly without having to do individual pixel counting at nanosecond speeds. the gate is probably very cheap to implement.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: c_f_harrison
> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:39 PM
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
>
>
>
> dig thru this for a mixed bag of info
> http://cerberus.fileburst.net/showthread.php?t=57790
>
> It looks like spots, possibly like another of those patents I pointed to earlier
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nRKU0nFxA
>
> Don't put too much faith in the TOF FUD
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck
>
> --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, THIS is the speckle patent I was looking at
> > http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Method-system-object-reconstruction/WO2007043036A1.pdf
> >
> > C
> >
> >
> > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "c_f_harrison" <cfharr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think there is a good deal of confusion out there about these camera's mode of operation.
> > > PrimeSense calls it LightCoding(TM), in a typicalcase of modern business obfuscation. http://www.primesense.com/?p=488
> > >
> > > Their patents mention laser speckle illumination
> > > http://www.faqs.org/patents/asn/62087
> > > which looks like a clever riff on structured light
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't know what they mean by recent. I've seen papers using data from these
> > > > things since 2005. There may be earlier uses too, but that's when I started
> > > > attending conferences on computer vision.
> > > >
> > > > - Robin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 8:34:47 AM
> > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > > >
> > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hewitt <get_imaginary@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. There is a basic rundown on it here. Says semiconductor
> > > > technology has only recently gotten fast enough to do this sort
> > > > of thing. Answers a lot.
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > google time of flight (tof) camera or 3-D imager for more information on the >
> > > > >sensor. The output is noisy and difficult to work with but that will probably >
> > > > >improve over time. The sensor technology has been around for awhile, but >
> > > > >compact, lower cost modules have only started becoming available in the past 3-4
> > > > >
> > > > > years. The technology is more common in Europe and Asia than in the US. It's >
> > > > >widely used in robotics research in Europe.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Robin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: dan michaels <oric_dan@>
> > > > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:13:42 AM
> > > > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: M$ Kinect
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, David Li <davecyli@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the link, David. I don't quite understand how they
> > > > > can measure time-of-flight using the hardware shown, however.
> > > > >
> > > > > ??? Got any idea?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Here's a little article on how it works.
> > > > > > http://gizmodo.com/5681078/how-motion-detection-works-in-xbox-kinect
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > David Li
> > > > > > Mechanical Engineering
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chassis Team Member
> > > > > > University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
> > > > > > Engineers Without Borders
> > > > > > (425) 736-2357
> > > > > > lidavidc@
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Balch" <peterbalch@...> wrote:
>
> Dan
>
> > I chanced to pick a "stud sensor" yesterday, and thought I
> > would pass along some info. Might have some use for robotics.
> > http://www.zircon.com/products/edge_ss_edge.html
> > I don't have my oscilloscope out of storage yet, so don't know
> > exactly how it works.
>
> Here's a rather old-fashioned schematic:
> http://members.shaw.ca/novotill/StudSensorAutomatic/index.htm
>


Ooof. One often wonders what all those components in a ckt like
that are actually doing.

On browsing, I found a more modern ckt. Cypress stud finder chip.
Basically just an oscillator made from 2 inverters running at 9-Mhz
and feeding into a 16-bit counter.

http://www.cypress.com/?rID=2787



> Personally, I'd use the same circuit as a CMOS Theremin:
> http://www.thereminworld.com/pics/schematics/simple.jpg
> which I've found to be a very simple way of making a sensitive cap meter.
>
> Or, if you don't have any schmidt CMOS gates handy, use U1a U1b U2a U2B of
> this:
> http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13404
>
> Those two oscillators run at a few MHz. The trick is, of course, to adjust
> them until they're both about the same freq then "mix" the two oscillator
> outputs using a NAND gate. Listen to the output of the NAND with an
> earpiece. (I don't know why the above circuit uses an analogue mixer -
> perhaps it gives a nicer tone.)
>
> One of the big problems with theremins is keeping the two oscillators from
> seeing each others signal and syncing.
>
> I believe that some modern capacitance detectors use the RC oscillator of a
> PIC clock - the C part is affected by external capacitance of the stud. The
> PIC measures its own clock freq with an RC connected to one of its I/O pins.
> There used to be a Microchip app note but I can't find it. The advantage is
> that the PIC can "calibrate" itself when it's switched on and only report
> changes in freq.
>
> > The
> > sensor part is an area of filled-in pcb copper about 1" x 1" with
> > a couple of narrow copper traces along the sides.
>
> Like this?
> http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13404
>
> Peter
>

David

> I'm thinking of building a starter machine shop. My budget is pretty low
> around 200-300 dollars.
> http://www.delcollo.us/icp/200machineshop.html

I've been thinking of doing the same sort of thing. That's a good price for
a cross vice but I suspect you could get a press drill for a bit less.
(Actually, when you go to the Harbour Freight site, the cross vices cost a
lot more. Maybe try Ebay.)

Mikes points are all very valid. I'd worry about the weight of the big chuck
just making it fall out. Presumably, you'll use the vice to hold the lathe
cutter. The sideways force of the cutter could easily jiggle the chuck and
loosen it.

I'd start with just the cross vice. What sort of lathe work are you
planning?

It's hard to control the up/down of a press-drill accurately. The
press-drills that I've seen can't be locked at a particular height. The one
in the photo you showed us didn't seem to have an adjustable end-stop.
Here's a close-up of the sort of thing I mean
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DK1310
There's a sort of "lead screw" with a nut - just above and to the left of
the chuck.

My press-drill came with two nuts on the lead screw (so you could lock
them). I moved one of them to below the end-stop bracket. That way, I can
use it to adjust the height of the milling bit. It's crude but it works. So
make sure your proposed press drill can do the same.

A milling machine of very solidly built. Much more so than a press drill.
I'd expect that wobble would be a problem and you'll struggle to get
accuracy. But for light machine work, it is certainly very much better than
nothing.

> In the long run you will be much better off with a real milling machine

True but (perhaps like David) I'm short of space.

You should also be careful when choosing the cross vice. The cheaper ones
can have huge backlash. That in itself isn't a killer, of course. It just
means that you have to always mill in the same direction. Check the
side-to-side wiggle. Even a half-decent one should allow you to tighten-up
the slides. Check how the vice will fasten to the press drill table.

Peter

----- Original Message -----

From: David Li

To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:08 AM

Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Machine Shop Ideas for a Starter

 

Hi All,

I'm thinking of building a starter machine shop. My budget is pretty low around 200-300 dollars.

I found this configuration on Reddit for $200, which should let me do some small scale lathe and mill work.
http://www.delcollo.us/icp/200machineshop.html

What do you guys feel about this and do you guys have any suggestions for a newbie?

I've taken classes on the mill and lathe at the University of Washington so I'm not jumping into this without knowing anything.

Thanks,
David Li

--
Mechanical Engineering

Chassis Team Member
University of Washington Formula SAE Team 21, 22

Grain Mill Project / Grant Writing Member
Engineers Without Borders
(425) 736-2357
lidavidc@...

David

> It seems like purchasing a mill would be better in the long run..

Oops, I wasn't meaning to put you off. I think the milling idea is good. I
don't know about the lathe chuck though. I was thinking of buying myself a
cross vice for christmas and seeing how good it would be. I've done a little
milling with my press drill (using small cutters) and the chuck hasn't
fallen out yet. I don't even know if it comes out.

As David Buckley asks: what are you wanting to do with it? Personally, I'd
be ecstatic if I could set up a small CNC and mill pcbs.

David's suggestion of a mill/drill is good but Sherline mini mill/drills
start at around $700. Beyond your $200-$300 budget. And the bench-space is
much bigger. If all the work you'll ever want to do will fit in a 6"-travel
vice then a mill/drill seems like overkill.

I presume that this is for your light personal use - not for the heavy duty
University Machine Shop?

Peter