I did a Google search on Cybie and hack and found some interesting
sites, only looked at a few.  Below are 2 worth looking at.

This one list the various robots that are sold and leads to a hack on
the Cybie.
http://www.tacticalneuronics.com/content/CoolBots.asp

This shows the guts of the cybie and mother board breakdown etc.
http://www.aibohack.com/icybie/index.html

Doug

I was at the kbtoys.com site and saw this review and snipped out the
part about charging the battery.


<<...Also I've been reading reviews where ADULTS are angry because of
the battery life. I decided to contact Tiger for that. What they told me
was this: If your battery is lasting less than an hour you may have
overcharged the battery or left it in I-cybie, causing it to lose life &
not charge properly. They advised me to do a 4 hour inital charge
(manual says 10) & do 3 hour recharges (Manual says 4-6)...>>

I may just need one of these...

Eric Stokely
On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 07:08 AM, William Cox wrote:

> I've seen one run. It's pretty neat. It has 16 motors. The batteries
> don't
> run that long though. It has a memory stick type thing in its side that
> the
> instructions say "DO NOT REMOVE" ... hmmm ;) It has a pretty good range
> of
> movement - it can stand upright after being turned on its back. You can
> control it with a IR remote.
> -William
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Leppard" <DLeppard@...>
> To: "Doug Kelley" <doug.kelley@...>;
> <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] RE: i-cybie $99
>
>
>> Is this thing worth it?  Why are they dumping them and people not
>> buying
>> them?  How can it do all its functions for $200 retail?  And as it was
>> asked before, does someone have one to let the rest of us know if it is
>> worth it?
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Doug Kelley
>> Sent: Thu 12/27/2001 5:32 PM
>> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] RE: i-cybie $99
>>
>>
>>
>> If you order from the following links, the club will get a
>> percentage:
>>
>> Blue:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004YRSE/seattleroboticss/
>>
>> Gold:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004YRSD/seattleroboticss/
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John P. Mulligan
john@...
Ars Robotica co-founder. With nearly two decades of programming experience,
John's specialty is systems/software. John is responsible for the
layout/design of the Ars Robotica website. In addition he wrote the
PHP/MySQL backend that powers the website. John is currently working as an
environmental engineer in Spring Grove, PA, devoting his free time to
robotics, programming, and web design.
Edmund L. Mulligan
ed@...
Ars Robotica co-founder. Ed is the hardware expert of the Ars Robotica team.
He has years of experience in industrial automation and control systems,
gained through years of working as an electrical engineer.

Jaime L. Houston
jaime@...
Jaime serves as assistant managing editor and content advisor for Ars
Robotica. She also helps with web design/layout proofing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Cox" <william@...>
To: "PARTS" <parts@yahoogroups.com>; "SRS" <seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: [PARTS] Rays Robotic Racers/Gary Livick


> Does anyone know who ran it? I  need a contact.
> -William
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan E. Daniel" <bedaniel@...>
> To: <seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "William Cox" <william@...>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: [PARTS] Rays Robotic Racers/Gary Livick
>
>
> > Clicking  http://www.arsrobotica.com   from an SRS Encoder
> > webpage returned a "Forbidden" instead of  a "Not Found"
> > message. ?
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

At this month's SRS meeting, the folks that had the Cybiko also showed us
the bottom of their line follower where they'd used a ball caster for the
front wheel. I found them tonight at Lowe's in Bellevue. The size Lowe's
calls 1" (diameter of the mounting plate) has a ball that's appears to be
about 1/2" in diameter. The 1-1/2" size looks to be about 3/4". The small
ones are $3.44 each. The bigger ones are $5.74. They also had one size
bigger, but I didn't buy one of them.

Also the most recent catalog from American Scientific and Surplus
www.sciplus.com <http://www.sciplus.com>  has something they call a Ball
Transfer that has a 1" ball. They sell 2 of them for $2.50.

Bob

-------------------------
Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What are you using to clean the solder flux off of your boards?

I'm getting tired of paying $8 or more for a small can of aerosol flux
cleaner that works semi-well at best. I've noted the ingredients on a couple
different brands, and they appear to be primarily alcohol of various kinds.
Some contain acetone, but I prefer to avoid it and some of the nastier
hydrocarbons.

Tonight I tried pure denatured alcohol with a short bristle brush, and it
appears to work fairly well. It's only about $3.50 per quart, even better by
the gallon. Do any of you use anything else regularly that you'd recommend?

Bob

-------------------------
Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!

Good question.

To be honest, I usually don't bother cleaning the flux off boards. For most
practical applications, the flux doesn't hurt anything and seems to prevent
corrosion of the solder joints. I am sure there are some circuits that might
be affected.

My experience with flux cleaners is they do more damage than the flux. They
are also rather nasty to deal with.

Kevin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Dyer" <bd@...>
To: <bd@...>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Flux Cleaner


> What are you using to clean the solder flux off of your boards?
>
> I'm getting tired of paying $8 or more for a small can of aerosol flux
> cleaner that works semi-well at best. I've noted the ingredients on a
couple
> different brands, and they appear to be primarily alcohol of various
kinds.
> Some contain acetone, but I prefer to avoid it and some of the nastier
> hydrocarbons.
>
> Tonight I tried pure denatured alcohol with a short bristle brush, and it
> appears to work fairly well. It's only about $3.50 per quart, even better
by
> the gallon. Do any of you use anything else regularly that you'd
recommend?
>
> Bob
>
> -------------------------
> Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I am a chemist by trade so I don't mind dealing with really nasty chemicals.
I personally prefer a mixture of Isopropyl alcohol and toluene.  But like I
said this mixture is not for the faint of heart (or people who care to live
to be over 50).  I would suggest rubbing alcohol and acetone mixture about
1:1.  I have a quart jar and just dip my boards in for a few minutes.

Remember there is a fire hazard with these and these solvents may dissolve
some parts.  The reason to remove flux is that it is conductive.  If you
don't care about a few stray signals that you did not expect then don't
clean the boards.  I have found a few times that after cleaning the boards
worked fine.

You can also go to a water soluble flux.  One that you can clean up with
water.  Even spraying the board with a "Windex" like product and using a
toothbrush will do a good job of getting the flux off.  Probably the safest
way.

Remember I did not tell you any of this and if you do something stupid like
some of my cousins then don't try to sue me.  This e-mail will self destruct
in 5 seconds.  Be very careful with any solvents.  They are flammable at
best and best used out doors or in a well ventilated room.



In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.  In practice
there is a whole bunch of difference.  I pick practice.

Bad things like software bugs do not come one at a time but in bunches and
groups.  My apologies to Mr. Shakespeare.

Steve B


-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Ross [mailto:kevinro@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 2:07 AM
To: seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Flux Cleaner


Good question.

To be honest, I usually don't bother cleaning the flux off boards. For most
practical applications, the flux doesn't hurt anything and seems to prevent
corrosion of the solder joints. I am sure there are some circuits that might
be affected.

My experience with flux cleaners is they do more damage than the flux. They
are also rather nasty to deal with.

Kevin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Dyer" <bd@...>
To: <bd@...>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Flux Cleaner


> What are you using to clean the solder flux off of your boards?
>
> I'm getting tired of paying $8 or more for a small can of aerosol flux
> cleaner that works semi-well at best. I've noted the ingredients on a
couple
> different brands, and they appear to be primarily alcohol of various
kinds.
> Some contain acetone, but I prefer to avoid it and some of the nastier
> hydrocarbons.
>
> Tonight I tried pure denatured alcohol with a short bristle brush, and it
> appears to work fairly well. It's only about $3.50 per quart, even better
by
> the gallon. Do any of you use anything else regularly that you'd
recommend?
>
> Bob
>
> -------------------------
> Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I am interested in learning about Field Programmable Gate Arrays.
Specifically, I have a small project that I would like to implement. Does
anyone have a good book or resource suggestion for learning how to work with
FPGA's?

Thanks
Kevin

MSDS - Material Safety Data Sheets tell safe uses and
hazards in using a product.
http://www.msdssearch.com/DBLinksN.htm

There is no "easy" way.  You just have to jump in and do it.

Xilinx has a free programmer available.  It is limited in the size of FPGA
you can do, but I believe it will handle bigger than 99% of what us
hobbyists will want to do.  There is a lot of documentation downloadable on
the web site.  (Thousands of pages!)  It is sometimes overwhelming.

I would recommend starting in schematic drawing mode.  As that is what you
are more familiar with.  Then if you wan to expand your knowledge move up to
VHDL and the state machine generator.  I have lasted about two years with
only schematics, and have made some Spartan 20 parts which is a lot of
circuits!

I am now working on understanding VHDL. I can do the simple things, but have
not tried anything really complicated.

Kip


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@...>
To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:09 AM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Working with FPGA's


> I am interested in learning about Field Programmable Gate Arrays.
> Specifically, I have a small project that I would like to implement. Does
> anyone have a good book or resource suggestion for learning how to work
with
> FPGA's?
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

I have started a robotics group today on yahoo groups. it is for people that
live in eastern USA to share ideas and info about robotics in the east. anyone
can join that wants to. There is no members on there now but join anyway. I
started this group because I was bored today and wanted to start one. :)

Tad Heckaman


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kevin,

If I ever decide to get into that field this is probably where I'm gonna
start:

http://www.hvwtech.com/intro-fpga.htm

Tom

> I am interested in learning about Field Programmable Gate Arrays.
> Specifically, I have a small project that I would like to implement. Does
> anyone have a good book or resource suggestion for learning how to work
with
> FPGA's?
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Close, but no taco. All @arsrobotica.com addresses bunce. Even John e-mail
listed under the WHOIS database bounces. I was wondering if anyone knew him
personally.
-William

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@...>
To: "PARTS" <parts@yahoogroups.com>; "SRS"
<seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com>; "William Cox" <william@...>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: [PARTS] Rays Robotic Racers/Gary Livick


> John P. Mulligan
> john@...
> Ars Robotica co-founder. With nearly two decades of programming
experience,
> John's specialty is systems/software. John is responsible for the
> layout/design of the Ars Robotica website. In addition he wrote the
> PHP/MySQL backend that powers the website. John is currently working as an
> environmental engineer in Spring Grove, PA, devoting his free time to
> robotics, programming, and web design.
> Edmund L. Mulligan
> ed@...
> Ars Robotica co-founder. Ed is the hardware expert of the Ars Robotica
team.
> He has years of experience in industrial automation and control systems,
> gained through years of working as an electrical engineer.
>
> Jaime L. Houston
> jaime@...
> Jaime serves as assistant managing editor and content advisor for Ars
> Robotica. She also helps with web design/layout proofing.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Cox" <william@...>
> To: "PARTS" <parts@yahoogroups.com>; "SRS"
<seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: [PARTS] Rays Robotic Racers/Gary Livick
>
>
> > Does anyone know who ran it? I  need a contact.
> > -William
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bryan E. Daniel" <bedaniel@...>
> > To: <seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: "William Cox" <william@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: [PARTS] Rays Robotic Racers/Gary
Livick
> >
> >
> > > Clicking  http://www.arsrobotica.com   from an SRS Encoder
> > > webpage returned a "Forbidden" instead of  a "Not Found"
> > > message. ?
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In SeattleRobotics@y..., "Bob Dyer" <bd@t...> wrote:
> At this month's SRS meeting, the folks that had the Cybiko also
showed us> the bottom of their line follower where they'd used a ball
caster for the> front wheel. >
.........


Speaking of casters, I recently picked up a couple of cylindrical
casters, made for use on bed frames. About 2.5" long and a little
heavy, but look like they would be great for a situation where one
caster in the middle will supply plenty of support for "lateral"
twisting, as in rolling over obstacles/etc.

- dan michaels
www.oricomtech.com
==========================

Speaking of ball casters,  I bought several sets of those "Razor" scooter
style wheels at a discount place called "Closeout Company" in Burlington near
where I live.  There were four 3-3/4" wheels and 8-13/16" bearings in a
plastic package,  all for $1.00. These seem to be pretty nice plastic wheels
with hard polypropylene rims for a mid-sized robot,  though you would have to
add a sprocket to the side for powering them with a roller-chain drive.  The
package of bearings alone is well worth the price.  They must had several
hundred sets,  plus a lot of other weird stuff,  like software (Quicken 2000
for $4.00) for deep discounted prices.  There may be others in the Seattle
area.
        'Just my two bits,
        Tom Carroll


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SeattleRobotics@y..., twcarroll@a... wrote:
> Speaking of ball casters,  I bought several sets of those "Razor"
scooter > style wheels
..............


I looked at razor scooter wheels a while back, but decided they might
not have enough traction for a general bot. Beautiful bearings,
however. I did pickup some bicycle training wheels at kmart recently -
  nice, light, and rubber treads, but no real bearings. Looks like
what the Heath Hero I used for the rear [non-drive] wheels.

- dan
===============

There's a DPRG guy here that has a robot that initially tried regular
scooter wheels, then went with some higher traction offroad scooter wheels.
You can see the robot at http://robostuff.com/dprg/bill_boyer/ , pretty cool
robot.

David
----- Original Message -----
From: "oric_dan" <dan@...>
To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Ball casters


> --- In SeattleRobotics@y..., twcarroll@a... wrote:
> > Speaking of ball casters,  I bought several sets of those "Razor"
> scooter > style wheels
> ..............
>
>
> I looked at razor scooter wheels a while back, but decided they might
> not have enough traction for a general bot. Beautiful bearings,
> however. I did pickup some bicycle training wheels at kmart recently -
>  nice, light, and rubber treads, but no real bearings. Looks like
> what the Heath Hero I used for the rear [non-drive] wheels.
>
> - dan
> ===============
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Isopropyl alcohol does a very good job.  More
commonly known as rubbing alcohol it is sold at
most drug stores.  You'll want to get the purest
kind AS it doesn't leave any residue.

All it takes is a cut down acid brush or a 1' wide
horse hair paint brush also cut down for stiffer
bristles.  You want to remove the flux from high
impedance circuits because it will cause problems.

Bob Dyer wrote:

> What are you using to clean the solder flux off of your boards?
>
> I'm getting tired of paying $8 or more for a small can of aerosol flux
> cleaner that works semi-well at best. I've noted the ingredients on a couple
> different brands, and they appear to be primarily alcohol of various kinds.
> Some contain acetone, but I prefer to avoid it and some of the nastier
> hydrocarbons.
>
> Tonight I tried pure denatured alcohol with a short bristle brush, and it
> appears to work fairly well. It's only about $3.50 per quart, even better by
> the gallon. Do any of you use anything else regularly that you'd recommend?
>
> Bob
>
> -------------------------
> Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Message: 15
>   Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:25:36 -0800
>   From: "Bob Dyer" <bd@...>
>Subject: Flux Cleaner
>
>What are you using to clean the solder flux off of your boards?
>
>I'm getting tired of paying $8 or more for a small can of aerosol flux
>cleaner that works semi-well at best. I've noted the ingredients on a couple
>different brands, and they appear to be primarily alcohol of various kinds.
>Some contain acetone, but I prefer to avoid it and some of the nastier
>hydrocarbons.
>
>Tonight I tried pure denatured alcohol with a short bristle brush, and it
>appears to work fairly well. It's only about $3.50 per quart, even better by
>the gallon. Do any of you use anything else regularly that you'd recommend?
>
>Bob
>
>-------------------------
>Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!


For some years I've been cleaning boards off with "Methylated Spirits " ( US
equivalent I think is "Rubbing Alcohol")
I put the boards into a bath of the fluid and use an old toothbrush to help
remove the flux  ( They usually don't last long
as the alcohol bakes them brittle  , same reason thet you should not use it to
clean perspex /lucite)

After cleaning I wash the boards down with hot water and then leave them to dry
in the sun and , when dry , use a
clear protective laquer  , Obviously switches or other moisture sensitive parts
ehould not be added before the board wash

With regard to the "leave it on , it doesn't do any harm " argument , The reason
I started doing this was the fact the the product
concerned was used in a situation where the atmosphere was hot and  (literally)
sweaty  and we after about a year we started
to see boards returned the tracks rotted off around the solder joints where the
flux was left in place  ,  No problems any more ,
probably mainly die to the  clear laquer , but when we just applied clear laquer
without washing off the flux , we ended up with
occasional problems wihere the flux had caused the laquer to lose it's grip

Steve et al,

Thanks everyone for your input.

Yeah, toluene, benzene and acetone are the primary solvents I was hoping to
avoid because I DO want to live to 50 (it's only a year and a half away). As
I said, I liked the alcohol I used pretty well, but it didn't take care of
the areas I couldn't reach with my brush. So I was wanting to find something
that would work purely by soaking. Maybe I just need a brush with longer
bristles.

As a chemist maybe you can answer one of my main concerns. Do you know if
any of these solvents attack solder mask? I seem to remember that something
I used in the past worked great on the flux, but it would soften the solder
mask such that we had to be careful with the board until it re-hardened. If
we set the board down it would easily pick up lint, or any other bits of
dirt that were there, or paper towel material if we wiped it off. Some of
our guys migrated to the water soluble fluxes that some of you mentioned.
They cleaned the boards in a dishwasher (without soap).

Also, I know acetone can be a concern with connectors, terminal strips and
sockets that are made of plastic. Any guidelines on which classes of
plastics are more immune so that I could look in the component data sheets
for certain materials to use or avoid?

Thanks again everyone. It looks as if I'm on the right track.

Bob

PS: Were those your six-fingered cousins? ;)

-------------------------
Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!

  -----Original Message-----
From:  steve b [mailto:dberger@...]

I am a chemist by trade so I don't mind dealing with really nasty chemicals.
I personally prefer a mixture of Isopropyl alcohol and toluene.  But like I
said this mixture is not for the faint of heart (or people who care to live
to be over 50).  I would suggest rubbing alcohol and acetone mixture about
1:1.  I have a quart jar and just dip my boards in for a few minutes.

Remember I did not tell you any of this and if you do something stupid like
some of my cousins then don't try to sue me.

Again
Do not try this at home kids.

I liked the idea of using the alcohol bath the other gentleman had brought
up.  This will at least get the majority of the flux off that you can't
reach with a brush.  I use a toothbrush also.

Seriously stay away from toluene, benzene, and the like as they are pretty
nasty.  As for the dissolving of the solder mask.  Alcohol should be OK.
Even with my toluene alcohol mix I only saw one problem.  That was a switch
that was attracted and had to be removed.  Most electronic components have a
good resistance as in the production they use vapor phase cleaning to remove
the flux.

I used to do more work in the PCB industry than I do now.  We were looking
at flux contamination of PCB parts and how the long term durability was
affected.  We could actually drive copper ions through a .080" PCB board if
there was enough flux around.  The copper would form a pathway for electric
current to flow.  In boards where the voltage is only a few volts (2 to 10)
this is not really an issue.  But we were working with power supplies and
voltages there can go to 1000 volts or higher.  We would test with 1500
volts DC connected for a long term hipot test.  Using a comb pattern on a
PCB and then testing the dissipation factor.  The boards would start to leak
pretty soon.  Leak electricity I mean.

As for connectors and the like.  If they are made of polyethylene or
polypropylene they are very resistant to solvent.  I will usually take a
cotton swab or ear cleaner and test some of the solvent on the part before I
put it in to soak.  Polycarbonate and polyester should be OK.

A good reference is:
http://www.ipc.org/

A good bunch of people who are interested in the circuits that they make.

Good luck.....starting to ramble here.

Another good solvent are the orange oil products.  Limonene and such.  They
are strong solvents but yet fairly nontoxic.  3-m also has some that are
good.  Turpentine is a reasonable choice.  But all of these depend on your
flux that you use.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.  In practice
there is a whole bunch of difference.  I pick practice.

Bad things like software bugs do not come one at a time but in bunches and
groups.  My apologies to Mr. Shakespeare.

Steve B


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Dyer [mailto:bd@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 8:34 PM
To: steve b; seattlerobotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Flux Cleaner


Steve et al,

Thanks everyone for your input.

Yeah, toluene, benzene and acetone are the primary solvents I was hoping to
avoid because I DO want to live to 50 (it's only a year and a half away). As
I said, I liked the alcohol I used pretty well, but it didn't take care of
the areas I couldn't reach with my brush. So I was wanting to find something
that would work purely by soaking. Maybe I just need a brush with longer
bristles.

As a chemist maybe you can answer one of my main concerns. Do you know if
any of these solvents attack solder mask? I seem to remember that something
I used in the past worked great on the flux, but it would soften the solder
mask such that we had to be careful with the board until it re-hardened. If
we set the board down it would easily pick up lint, or any other bits of
dirt that were there, or paper towel material if we wiped it off. Some of
our guys migrated to the water soluble fluxes that some of you mentioned.
They cleaned the boards in a dishwasher (without soap).

Also, I know acetone can be a concern with connectors, terminal strips and
sockets that are made of plastic. Any guidelines on which classes of
plastics are more immune so that I could look in the component data sheets
for certain materials to use or avoid?

Thanks again everyone. It looks as if I'm on the right track.

Bob

PS: Were those your six-fingered cousins? ;)

-------------------------
Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!

  -----Original Message-----
From:  steve b [mailto:dberger@...]

I am a chemist by trade so I don't mind dealing with really nasty chemicals.
I personally prefer a mixture of Isopropyl alcohol and toluene.  But like I
said this mixture is not for the faint of heart (or people who care to live
to be over 50).  I would suggest rubbing alcohol and acetone mixture about
1:1.  I have a quart jar and just dip my boards in for a few minutes.

Remember I did not tell you any of this and if you do something stupid like
some of my cousins then don't try to sue me.


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I expected more interest in an SRS video library (I guess that's why I'm not in
marketing)!  Only eight people have signed up to receive videos.  Since there
isn't a great deal of interest, I'm dropping the rule to only sign up for one
video at a time.  The video database is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/database

Doug

Would it be possible to put the videos on the net?  Maybe RealVideo or avi
format?  That would eliminate mailing them around.

Ed Okerson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Kelley" <doug.kelley@...>
To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <srsannounce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:42 AM
Subject: [SeattleRobotics] SRS Videos


> I expected more interest in an SRS video library (I guess that's why I'm
not in
> marketing)!  Only eight people have signed up to receive videos.  Since
there
> isn't a great deal of interest, I'm dropping the rule to only sign up for
one
> video at a time.  The video database is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/database
>
> Doug
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

They would be HUGE!! Probably not practical.

-------------------------
Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!

  -----Original Message-----
From:  Ed Okerson [mailto:eokerson@...]

Would it be possible to put the videos on the net?  Maybe RealVideo or avi
format?  That would eliminate mailing them around.

Perhaps broadcast.yahoo.com (formerly broadcast.com) could be persuaded to
host them.  They have many large videos already.

Ed Okerson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Dyer" <bd@...>
To: "Ed Okerson" <eokerson@...>; <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <srsannounce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] SRS Videos


> They would be HUGE!! Probably not practical.
>
> -------------------------
> Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Okerson [mailto:eokerson@...]
>
> Would it be possible to put the videos on the net?  Maybe RealVideo or avi
> format?  That would eliminate mailing them around.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

If you use divx then they would be about 100 megs a piece. or use realvideo
and stream it to people
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Dyer" <bd@...>
To: "Ed Okerson" <eokerson@...>;
<SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <srsannounce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] SRS Videos


> They would be HUGE!! Probably not practical.
>
> -------------------------
> Consider Carefully...  Act Boldly!
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Okerson [mailto:eokerson@...]
>
> Would it be possible to put the videos on the net?  Maybe RealVideo or avi
> format?  That would eliminate mailing them around.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

I've done some FPGA work with Altera's 10K series which is pretty high end.
Their language AHDL is much simplier than VHDL (I used both on a complex
design).  I use the Altera Max-Plus II development environment.   It's
expensive (>$1,000) and has a dongle. It's also a weird user interface but
okay when you get used to it.  The help system in the MaxPlus is great.
That's where I learned AHDL since the one book available on it (a title with
AHDL and VHDL in the name) just sucks.
  I checked out the site that Tom Light refers to and the kit they sell looks
great.  I don't know how he includes the programming software since Altera
doesn't seem to have a low cost version on their web site (at least I
couldn't find it).
  I haven't done anything with Xilinx but if they have free documentation,
software, and programmers, that is probably the way to go.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kipton Moravec [mailto:kip@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 5:21 AM
> To: Kevin Ross
> Cc: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Working with FPGA's
>
>
> There is no "easy" way.  You just have to jump in and do it.
>
> Xilinx has a free programmer available.  It is limited in the size of FPGA
> you can do, but I believe it will handle bigger than 99% of what us
> hobbyists will want to do.  There is a lot of documentation
> downloadable on
> the web site.  (Thousands of pages!)  It is sometimes overwhelming.
>
> I would recommend starting in schematic drawing mode.  As that is what you
> are more familiar with.  Then if you wan to expand your knowledge
> move up to
> VHDL and the state machine generator.  I have lasted about two years with
> only schematics, and have made some Spartan 20 parts which is a lot of
> circuits!
>
> I am now working on understanding VHDL. I can do the simple
> things, but have
> not tried anything really complicated.
>
> Kip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@...>
> To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:09 AM
> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Working with FPGA's
>
>
> > I am interested in learning about Field Programmable Gate Arrays.
> > Specifically, I have a small project that I would like to
> implement. Does
> > anyone have a good book or resource suggestion for learning how to work
> with
> > FPGA's?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

No, this is primarily for the out-of-towners who are unable to attend the
meetings.

Doug

kevinrock@... writes:
>Howdy Doug,
>   I am nowhere near Seattle am I eligible for this SRS perk?
>I would be interested in borrow a tape or two but I thought it
>was just for the locals.
>   Kevin.   KD5ONS
>
>
>12/30/01 7:42:59 AM, "Doug Kelley"
><doug.kelley@...> wrote:
>
>>I expected more interest in an SRS video library (I guess
>that's why I'm not in
>>marketing)!  Only eight people have signed up to receive
>videos.  Since there
>>isn't a great deal of interest, I'm dropping the rule to only
>sign up for one
>>video at a time.  The video database is at:
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/databas
>e
>>
>>Doug
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Hello,

anyone is trying to build the platform based on SHRIMP design ?


http://dmtwww.epfl.ch/isr/asl/systems/shrimp.html

I would like to build this platform and I am interested about sharing
ideas, parts sources etc.

Best regards

PavelK

I guess I misunderstood this also.  I would love to see the videos here
in the sticks of Orlando, so I will sign up now.

Doug

---Original Message-----
From: Doug Kelley
Sent: Sun 12/30/2001 4:47 PM
To: kevinrock@...
Cc: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] SRS Videos



	 No, this is primarily for the out-of-towners who are unable to
attend the
	 meetings.

	 Doug

	 kevinrock@... writes:
	 >Howdy Doug,
	 >   I am nowhere near Seattle am I eligible for this SRS perk?
	 >I would be interested in borrow a tape or two but I thought it
	 >was just for the locals.
	 >   Kevin.   KD5ONS
	 >
	 >
	 >12/30/01 7:42:59 AM, "Doug Kelley"
	 ><doug.kelley@...> wrote:
	 >
	 >>I expected more interest in an SRS video library (I guess
	 >that's why I'm not in
	 >>marketing)!  Only eight people have signed up to receive
	 >videos.  Since there
	 >>isn't a great deal of interest, I'm dropping the rule to only
	 >sign up for one
	 >>video at a time.  The video database is at:
	 >>
	 >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/databas
	 >e
	 >>
	 >>Doug
	 >>
	 >>
	 >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
	 >>SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
	 >>
	 >>
	 >>
	 >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
	 >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
	 >>
	 >>
	 >>
	 >>
	 >
	 >
	 >



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