We have been warned... ;-)

+ Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show Control Ltd +
+ http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com -- http://www.AuraShowControl.com +
+---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in Control" ----+
+------ To get info or join the Show Control Mailing List go to: ------+
+----------- http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com/sclist.html -----------+
+---------------- AudioBox user group discussion list: ----------------+
+----------- http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com/ablist.html -----------+
    "Let distribution undo excess - And each man have enough"
     - King Lear


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Subject: First warning:  your group Show-Power will soon be deleted



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Actually thining a bit more - I assume Elstree come with a driver which would
cost a bit to have on site for days on end for the stage build up and break (not
all power is for use with stages but quite a bit is....)

Dave
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Richard Sillitto
   To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:04 PM
   Subject: Re: [Show-Power] Genny suppliers in UK


   >Not sure if those here are this side of the pond or not, or indeed
   >suppliers or users of sets, but does anyone have much thoughts on
   >where to get them?
   >
   >I have had a few quotes and a few failed to get back to me but am
   >more interested in 'I was impressed with' or 'Horror stor' type
   >recomendations....

   Hello,

   Depends what sort of quality your after and where you're based, how
   much power you want, etc - but I would highly recommend Elstree Light
   and Power.

   They have a large range of truck gennys that are silent (as most of
   their work is TV/Film based).

   Being trucks they can get to you wherever you may be, but of course
   it may be uneconomical if you are based in Scotland, for instance.

   Phone: 0208 236 1300

   or take a look at their website www.elp.tv

   Hope this helps,

   Richard.

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Ta for the reply - I guess I need to add more info....

we are based in Hull but travel arround the UK quite a bit - stage in Guernsey
at the moment!

Usual size required is 100kVA x2 - often one just waiting for the first to
fail... sometimes we use it....

I have not seen an elstree with less than 2x200kVA but I could be wrong - might
they still be worth a punt for us do you think?

Dave
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Richard Sillitto
   To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:04 PM
   Subject: Re: [Show-Power] Genny suppliers in UK


   >Not sure if those here are this side of the pond or not, or indeed
   >suppliers or users of sets, but does anyone have much thoughts on
   >where to get them?
   >
   >I have had a few quotes and a few failed to get back to me but am
   >more interested in 'I was impressed with' or 'Horror stor' type
   >recomendations....

   Hello,

   Depends what sort of quality your after and where you're based, how
   much power you want, etc - but I would highly recommend Elstree Light
   and Power.

   They have a large range of truck gennys that are silent (as most of
   their work is TV/Film based).

   Being trucks they can get to you wherever you may be, but of course
   it may be uneconomical if you are based in Scotland, for instance.

   Phone: 0208 236 1300

   or take a look at their website www.elp.tv

   Hope this helps,

   Richard.

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Not sure if those here are this side of the pond or not, or indeed
>suppliers or users of sets, but does anyone have much thoughts on
>where to get them?
>
>I have had a few quotes and a few failed to get back to me but am
>more interested in 'I was impressed with' or 'Horror stor' type
>recomendations....

Hello,

Depends what sort of quality your after and where you're based, how
much power you want, etc - but I would highly recommend Elstree Light
and Power.

They have a large range of truck gennys that are silent (as most of
their work is TV/Film based).

Being trucks they can get to you wherever you may be, but of course
it may be uneconomical if you are based in Scotland, for instance.

Phone: 0208 236 1300

or take a look at their website www.elp.tv

Hope this helps,

Richard.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not sure if those here are this side of the pond or not, or indeed
suppliers or users of sets, but does anyone have much thoughts on
where to get them?

I have had a few quotes and a few failed to get back to me but am
more interested in 'I was impressed with' or 'Horror stor' type
recomendations....

We used to use Aggrekko - but they seem to be getting more and more
expensive.....

Then Hewden - had a bit of hassle and fuel is like 60p /l which
makes it expensive unles we use a load and then refill....

Any thoughts,
Cheers,

Thanks.




	 Hi Joe and welcome to the list

	 Jason





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

spam training

	 -----Original Message-----
	 From: Charlie Richmond [mailto:charlier@...]

	 Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:23 PM
	 To: List - Show Power
	 Subject: [Show-Power] Cool pages...


	 Here's a neat little site:

	 http://www.dovesystems.com/pages/apnotes/LDI2001/img0.htm

	 Enjoy!
	 Charlie

	 + Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show
Control Ltd +
	 + http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com --
http://www.AuraShowControl.com +
	 +---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in
Control" ----+


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joe and welcome to the list

Jason


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here's a neat little site:

http://www.dovesystems.com/pages/apnotes/LDI2001/img0.htm

Enjoy!
Charlie

+ Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show Control Ltd +
+ http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com -- http://www.AuraShowControl.com +
+---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in Control" ----+

spam training

	 -----Original Message-----
	 From: Joe Golden
	 Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 3:27 PM
	 To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
	 Subject: [Show-Power] Hello


	 Very interesting group here.  I just finished reading all of the
	 messages to get up to speed on what is being discussed.

	 A little about me.  I work for one of the major rental shops in
the LA
	 Area as an Account Manager.  I have been an M-E for special
events and
	 trade shows, as well as an electrician/technician for permanent
	 installs.  I look forward to learning much from this group and
sharing
	 some of my knowledge.

	 Joe Golden
	 Entertainment Lighting Services

	 BTW is it possible for people to trim their replies as some of
the posts
	 get really loooong.


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<mailto:Show-Power-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

	 * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very interesting group here.  I just finished reading all of the
messages to get up to speed on what is being discussed.

A little about me.  I work for one of the major rental shops in the LA
Area as an Account Manager.  I have been an M-E for special events and
trade shows, as well as an electrician/technician for permanent
installs.  I look forward to learning much from this group and sharing
some of my knowledge.

Joe Golden
Entertainment Lighting Services

BTW is it possible for people to trim their replies as some of the posts
get really loooong.

After a day of twisting wires I think you should be
forgiven for just about anything :-).

I'm terminating dimmer racks today.

Knit one, purl two, . . . .


-Doug


--- John Grimshaw <johng@...> wrote:
> It just goes to show I shouldn't write when my brain
> is in weekend mode! Of
> course, socpex is multipin and camlock is single
> connection. For some
> reason, my brain thought "powerlock" and my fingers
> types "socapex".
>
> Maybe its because I am spending the day today
> preping looms for an
> installation!
>
>
> Regards
>
> John Grimshaw
>
>
_________________________________________________________
>
> ||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation
> |||
>
> Freelance services for entertainment technology and
> general training
>
> Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage
> Management, Audio and Vision
>
> Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
>
>
_________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:53 PM
> To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question
>
>
> I agree.  Running a higher voltage for our power
> supply would make things much easier.  In the end,
> the
> savings on conduit, cable weight, and transformers
> would be substanital.
>
> In my field, it's safest to assume that every
> circuit
> will be loaded to capacity and on at full at all
> times.  (Television lighting).
>
> I still think we'd be required to overrate our
> neutrals, though, because of the harmonics created
> by
> switching power supplies (such as dimmers and
> discharge light sources) and the time difference
> between the voltage vs. time curve and the current
> vs.
> time curve for the various switching power supplies.
>
> Increasing the voltage will reduce the overall
> current
> required, but won't make these other issues go away.
>
> Also, a Socapex(tm) connector on this side of the
> ocean is a 19-pin connector used on either end of a
> cable housing 18 conductors, each being 18AWG (0.8
> mm^2) to 12 AWG (3.3 mm^2). These cables are usually
> used to carry 6 circuits of power to a remote
> location.
> The large single-conductor connectors are called
> "Cam-Locks."
>
> -Doug
>
> --- John Grimshaw <johng@...> wrote:
> > If nothing else, all of this has put into stark
> > reality the distinct
> > advantage of running a 240V dimming system.
> >
> > (thanks doug for forwarding that info from
> > mjslvh@...)
> >
> > Here is Australia, the same 12x 2.4kw dimmer is
> > USUALLY supplied by a 32Amp,
> > 5 pin single connector. This would be UNDERRATED
> if
> > you were to load each of
> > the 12 circuits to capacity (240V x 10A = 2.4 kW)
> x
> > 4 circuits per phase =
> > 40A. The justification is that:
> > A) you would RARELY load every circuit to capacity
> > B) you would RARELY want to run every circuit at
> > full
> >
> > All of this is results in making the installation
> of
> > power in venues much
> > cheaper - a 32A run 100m to an outlet is FAR
> cheaper
> > than the copper needed
> > to run a 40A outlet. Plus, we don't need to run a
> > double capacity neutral.
> >
> > (the better resourced venues install 40A 3 phase
> in
> > their venue)
> >
> > I would HATE to think what power installations in
> > the US cost by
> > comparison!!!
> >
> > The electrical design of our 5 pin 32, 40 and 50A
> > plugs is identical. The
> > plastic moulding, however, does the job of
> > preventing a 40A plug from being
> > inserted into a 32A supply, though a 32A plug will
> > happily plug into a 40A
> > supply. Same applies to 50A.
> >
> > We only use the separate "socapex" style
> connectors
> > for three phase when
> > powering LARGE distribution systems (like touring
> > rock concerts)
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > John Grimshaw
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________
> > ||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation
> > |||
> > Freelance services for entertainment technology
> and
> > general training
> > Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage
> > Management, Audio and Vision
> > Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
> >
>
_________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:16 AM
> > To: show-power@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question
> >
> >
> > --- mjslvh <mjslvh@...> wrote:
> > > Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:27:55 -0000
> > > From: "mjslvh" <mjslvh@...>
> > > To: Doug Franz <hitrim@...>
> > > Subject: Re: Easy Question
> > >
> > > Back to the original question- Typically any
> > dimmer requiring over 50
> > > amps single phase in the US will get wired with
> > Crouse-Hinds 1016
> > > Series Cam-lock connectors or equals (Try
> > > http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/camconnectors.pdf
> for
> > info).  While there
> > > are pin and sleeve connectors rated at higher
> > amperages, the cost of
> > > these is high and theaters are always on a
> budget.
> > > There are
> > > consumer type connectors for 50 amp single phase
> > and under (which
> > > equals low cost, therefore the use of same).
> > >
> > > Also, the National Electrical Code (NEC)
> requires
> > the use of double
> > > neutrals on portable three phase dimming
> > equipment.
> > > This can be
> > > accomplished with a single conductor sized at
> > twice the capacity of
> > > the phase conductors or on larger services by
> > using two conductors.
> > > Since the cam-locks are only rated for 400-amps,
> a
> > dimmer rack
> > > connected to an 800-amp service would have a
> total
> > of 11 cables
> > > feeding it  6 phase conductors, 4 neutral
> > conductors and at least one
> > > ground conductor.  A 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack would
> > need 3 phase
> > > conductors rated @ 80 amps, 1 neutral rated @
> 160
> > amps and one ground.
> > >
> > > As for welding cable, it has never been legal
> for
>
=== message truncated ===





__________________________________
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http://messenger.yahoo.com/

It just goes to show I shouldn't write when my brain is in weekend mode! Of
course, socpex is multipin and camlock is single connection. For some
reason, my brain thought "powerlock" and my fingers types "socapex".

Maybe its because I am spending the day today preping looms for an
installation!


Regards

John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________

||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||

Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training

Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision

Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394

_________________________________________________________



   _____

From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:53 PM
To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question


I agree.  Running a higher voltage for our power
supply would make things much easier.  In the end, the
savings on conduit, cable weight, and transformers
would be substanital.

In my field, it's safest to assume that every circuit
will be loaded to capacity and on at full at all
times.  (Television lighting).

I still think we'd be required to overrate our
neutrals, though, because of the harmonics created by
switching power supplies (such as dimmers and
discharge light sources) and the time difference
between the voltage vs. time curve and the current vs.
time curve for the various switching power supplies.
Increasing the voltage will reduce the overall current
required, but won't make these other issues go away.

Also, a Socapex(tm) connector on this side of the
ocean is a 19-pin connector used on either end of a
cable housing 18 conductors, each being 18AWG (0.8
mm^2) to 12 AWG (3.3 mm^2). These cables are usually
used to carry 6 circuits of power to a remote
location.
The large single-conductor connectors are called
"Cam-Locks."

-Doug

--- John Grimshaw <johng@...> wrote:
> If nothing else, all of this has put into stark
> reality the distinct
> advantage of running a 240V dimming system.
>
> (thanks doug for forwarding that info from
> mjslvh@...)
>
> Here is Australia, the same 12x 2.4kw dimmer is
> USUALLY supplied by a 32Amp,
> 5 pin single connector. This would be UNDERRATED if
> you were to load each of
> the 12 circuits to capacity (240V x 10A = 2.4 kW) x
> 4 circuits per phase =
> 40A. The justification is that:
> A) you would RARELY load every circuit to capacity
> B) you would RARELY want to run every circuit at
> full
>
> All of this is results in making the installation of
> power in venues much
> cheaper - a 32A run 100m to an outlet is FAR cheaper
> than the copper needed
> to run a 40A outlet. Plus, we don't need to run a
> double capacity neutral.
>
> (the better resourced venues install 40A 3 phase in
> their venue)
>
> I would HATE to think what power installations in
> the US cost by
> comparison!!!
>
> The electrical design of our 5 pin 32, 40 and 50A
> plugs is identical. The
> plastic moulding, however, does the job of
> preventing a 40A plug from being
> inserted into a 32A supply, though a 32A plug will
> happily plug into a 40A
> supply. Same applies to 50A.
>
> We only use the separate "socapex" style connectors
> for three phase when
> powering LARGE distribution systems (like touring
> rock concerts)
>
>
> Regards
> John Grimshaw
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> ||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation
> |||
> Freelance services for entertainment technology and
> general training
> Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage
> Management, Audio and Vision
> Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
>
_________________________________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:16 AM
> To: show-power@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question
>
>
> --- mjslvh <mjslvh@...> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:27:55 -0000
> > From: "mjslvh" <mjslvh@...>
> > To: Doug Franz <hitrim@...>
> > Subject: Re: Easy Question
> >
> > Back to the original question- Typically any
> dimmer requiring over 50
> > amps single phase in the US will get wired with
> Crouse-Hinds 1016
> > Series Cam-lock connectors or equals (Try
> > http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/camconnectors.pdf for
> info).  While there
> > are pin and sleeve connectors rated at higher
> amperages, the cost of
> > these is high and theaters are always on a budget.
> > There are
> > consumer type connectors for 50 amp single phase
> and under (which
> > equals low cost, therefore the use of same).
> >
> > Also, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires
> the use of double
> > neutrals on portable three phase dimming
> equipment.
> > This can be
> > accomplished with a single conductor sized at
> twice the capacity of
> > the phase conductors or on larger services by
> using two conductors.
> > Since the cam-locks are only rated for 400-amps, a
> dimmer rack
> > connected to an 800-amp service would have a total
> of 11 cables
> > feeding it  6 phase conductors, 4 neutral
> conductors and at least one
> > ground conductor.  A 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack would
> need 3 phase
> > conductors rated @ 80 amps, 1 neutral rated @ 160
> amps and one ground.
> >
> > As for welding cable, it has never been legal for
> power feeds.
> > Welding cable was used because it was cheap,
> available and highly
> > flexible.  Type W cable is listed in the NEC as a
> portable power cable
> > and is legal.  All power cables must have the
> jacket marked with the
> > listing service type and voltage rating.
> > Most welding cable
> > is not even marked, it is a low voltage cable and
> welding tends to be
> > low duty cycle which prevents overheating.
> >
> > The above doesn't even touch on required
> over-current protection.
> > Unfortunately, most M-Es I meet don't know or
> don't care about the NEC
> > codes.  Since anyone who can haul cable can call
> themselves an
> > electrician it may be some time before that
> changes.
> >
> > Mark Stickelmaier
> > LVH Entertainment Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Show-Power@yahoogroups.com, Doug Franz
> <hitrim@y...> wrote:
> > > Charlie's right, touring shows usually carry
> > what's
> > > called a set of "tails" that are meant to be
> hard-wired into a house
> > > disconnect panel.  That
> > way,
> > > there's never an issue of compatibility between
> > the
> > > show's power connectors and the house's power
> connectors.  It's the
> > > norm here, and therefore
> > quite
> > > orthodox :-)
> > >
> > > The tails are usually quite short (2 meters or
> > less)
> > > and end in cam-type connectors, which the
> touring show's feeder then
> > > connects to.  Of course, if the house also has
> cam-type connectors
> > > that the show
> > can
> > > connect to, they usually leave the tails in the
> > road
> > > case.  The tails are sized to match the load of
> > the
> > > system.  They could be 6 AWG up to 0000 AWG.
> > >
> > > Now as for the type of cable used, it's true
> that
> > for
> > > many years type W "welding" cable was used, but
> > end
> > > users, manufacturers, facilities, and
> authorities
> > are
> > > aware of the need to switch to type SC "stage &
> lighting" cable.
> > > There are pros and cons of each
> > > type:  submersibility, sunlight resistance,
> ruggedness, and so on.
> > > Either cable is rated for
> > at
> > > least 300V, which is fine since North American
> > 3-phase
> > > power is 120V hot-to-earth and 208V between
> > phases.
> > > And, although welding cable has never been
> specifically allowed or
> > > disallowed for portable lighting system feeder,
> it's use is
> > > widespread
> > enough
> > > to call it a "de facto" standard.
> > >
> > > -Doug
> > >
> > > --- Charlie Richmond
> > > <charlier@r...> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is an industrial power connector and
> may
>
=== message truncated ===





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree.  Running a higher voltage for our power
supply would make things much easier.  In the end, the
savings on conduit, cable weight, and transformers
would be substanital.

In my field, it's safest to assume that every circuit
will be loaded to capacity and on at full at all
times.  (Television lighting).

I still think we'd be required to overrate our
neutrals, though, because of the harmonics created by
switching power supplies (such as dimmers and
discharge light sources) and the time difference
between the voltage vs. time curve and the current vs.
time curve for the various switching power supplies.
Increasing the voltage will reduce the overall current
required, but won't make these other issues go away.

Also, a Socapex(tm) connector on this side of the
ocean is a 19-pin connector used on either end of a
cable housing 18 conductors, each being 18AWG (0.8
mm^2) to 12 AWG (3.3 mm^2). These cables are usually
used to carry 6 circuits of power to a remote
location.
The large single-conductor connectors are called
"Cam-Locks."

-Doug

--- John Grimshaw <johng@...> wrote:
> If nothing else, all of this has put into stark
> reality the distinct
> advantage of running a 240V dimming system.
>
> (thanks doug for forwarding that info from
> mjslvh@...)
>
> Here is Australia, the same 12x 2.4kw dimmer is
> USUALLY supplied by a 32Amp,
> 5 pin single connector. This would be UNDERRATED if
> you were to load each of
> the 12 circuits to capacity (240V x 10A = 2.4 kW) x
> 4 circuits per phase =
> 40A. The justification is that:
> A) you would RARELY load every circuit to capacity
> B) you would RARELY want to run every circuit at
> full
>
> All of this is results in making the installation of
> power in venues much
> cheaper - a 32A run 100m to an outlet is FAR cheaper
> than the copper needed
> to run a 40A outlet. Plus, we don't need to run a
> double capacity neutral.
>
> (the better resourced venues install 40A 3 phase in
> their venue)
>
> I would HATE to think what power installations in
> the US cost by
> comparison!!!
>
> The electrical design of our 5 pin 32, 40 and 50A
> plugs is identical. The
> plastic moulding, however, does the job of
> preventing a 40A plug from being
> inserted into a 32A supply, though a 32A plug will
> happily plug into a 40A
> supply. Same applies to 50A.
>
> We only use the separate "socapex" style connectors
> for three phase when
> powering LARGE distribution systems (like touring
> rock concerts)
>
>
> Regards
> John Grimshaw
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> ||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation
> |||
> Freelance services for entertainment technology and
> general training
> Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage
> Management, Audio and Vision
> Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
>
_________________________________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:16 AM
> To: show-power@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question
>
>
> --- mjslvh <mjslvh@...> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:27:55 -0000
> > From: "mjslvh" <mjslvh@...>
> > To: Doug Franz <hitrim@...>
> > Subject: Re: Easy Question
> >
> > Back to the original question- Typically any
> dimmer requiring over 50
> > amps single phase in the US will get wired with
> Crouse-Hinds 1016
> > Series Cam-lock connectors or equals (Try
> > http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/camconnectors.pdf for
> info).  While there
> > are pin and sleeve connectors rated at higher
> amperages, the cost of
> > these is high and theaters are always on a budget.
> > There are
> > consumer type connectors for 50 amp single phase
> and under (which
> > equals low cost, therefore the use of same).
> >
> > Also, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires
> the use of double
> > neutrals on portable three phase dimming
> equipment.
> > This can be
> > accomplished with a single conductor sized at
> twice the capacity of
> > the phase conductors or on larger services by
> using two conductors.
> > Since the cam-locks are only rated for 400-amps, a
> dimmer rack
> > connected to an 800-amp service would have a total
> of 11 cables
> > feeding it  6 phase conductors, 4 neutral
> conductors and at least one
> > ground conductor.  A 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack would
> need 3 phase
> > conductors rated @ 80 amps, 1 neutral rated @ 160
> amps and one ground.
> >
> > As for welding cable, it has never been legal for
> power feeds.
> > Welding cable was used because it was cheap,
> available and highly
> > flexible.  Type W cable is listed in the NEC as a
> portable power cable
> > and is legal.  All power cables must have the
> jacket marked with the
> > listing service type and voltage rating.
> > Most welding cable
> > is not even marked, it is a low voltage cable and
> welding tends to be
> > low duty cycle which prevents overheating.
> >
> > The above doesn't even touch on required
> over-current protection.
> > Unfortunately, most M-Es I meet don't know or
> don't care about the NEC
> > codes.  Since anyone who can haul cable can call
> themselves an
> > electrician it may be some time before that
> changes.
> >
> > Mark Stickelmaier
> > LVH Entertainment Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Show-Power@yahoogroups.com, Doug Franz
> <hitrim@y...> wrote:
> > > Charlie's right, touring shows usually carry
> > what's
> > > called a set of "tails" that are meant to be
> hard-wired into a house
> > > disconnect panel.  That
> > way,
> > > there's never an issue of compatibility between
> > the
> > > show's power connectors and the house's power
> connectors.  It's the
> > > norm here, and therefore
> > quite
> > > orthodox :-)
> > >
> > > The tails are usually quite short (2 meters or
> > less)
> > > and end in cam-type connectors, which the
> touring show's feeder then
> > > connects to.  Of course, if the house also has
> cam-type connectors
> > > that the show
> > can
> > > connect to, they usually leave the tails in the
> > road
> > > case.  The tails are sized to match the load of
> > the
> > > system.  They could be 6 AWG up to 0000 AWG.
> > >
> > > Now as for the type of cable used, it's true
> that
> > for
> > > many years type W "welding" cable was used, but
> > end
> > > users, manufacturers, facilities, and
> authorities
> > are
> > > aware of the need to switch to type SC "stage &
> lighting" cable.
> > > There are pros and cons of each
> > > type:  submersibility, sunlight resistance,
> ruggedness, and so on.
> > > Either cable is rated for
> > at
> > > least 300V, which is fine since North American
> > 3-phase
> > > power is 120V hot-to-earth and 208V between
> > phases.
> > > And, although welding cable has never been
> specifically allowed or
> > > disallowed for portable lighting system feeder,
> it's use is
> > > widespread
> > enough
> > > to call it a "de facto" standard.
> > >
> > > -Doug
> > >
> > > --- Charlie Richmond
> > > <charlier@r...> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is an industrial power connector and
> may
>
=== message truncated ===





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In message <Pine.LNX.4.50.0406041206250.11042-100000@midi>, Charlie
Richmond <charlier@...> writes
>And in the UK (except that colour codes are being harmonised with the
>EU...)
Fortunately this should result in a spate of highly profitable repair
work on delicate electronic equipment.  240V transformers just get so
excited over 415V.

The fairground industry with it's wide travelling, tends to end up with
a mix of cable colour codes.  The two blacks of the intended standard
have already proven themselves to be a very expensive wiring problem for
the inexperienced.

The current three phase colours in the UK are red, yellow and blue for
the phases, black for the neutral and green/yellow for earth.  The new
code is something like two blacks and a brown for the phases, blue for
neutral and the same green/yellow for earth.

Since people are used to the blue being a phase and a black being the
neutral, they tend to use one of the blacks as neutral, which means that
with a quick swap of the blacks you get 415 across something fragile.

Super.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

If nothing else, all of this has put into stark reality the distinct
advantage of running a 240V dimming system.

(thanks doug for forwarding that info from mjslvh@...)

Here is Australia, the same 12x 2.4kw dimmer is USUALLY supplied by a 32Amp,
5 pin single connector. This would be UNDERRATED if you were to load each of
the 12 circuits to capacity (240V x 10A = 2.4 kW) x 4 circuits per phase =
40A. The justification is that:
A) you would RARELY load every circuit to capacity
B) you would RARELY want to run every circuit at full

All of this is results in making the installation of power in venues much
cheaper - a 32A run 100m to an outlet is FAR cheaper than the copper needed
to run a 40A outlet. Plus, we don't need to run a double capacity neutral.

(the better resourced venues install 40A 3 phase in their venue)

I would HATE to think what power installations in the US cost by
comparison!!!

The electrical design of our 5 pin 32, 40 and 50A plugs is identical. The
plastic moulding, however, does the job of preventing a 40A plug from being
inserted into a 32A supply, though a 32A plug will happily plug into a 40A
supply. Same applies to 50A.

We only use the separate "socapex" style connectors for three phase when
powering LARGE distribution systems (like touring rock concerts)


Regards
John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________
||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||
Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training
Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision
Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
_________________________________________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Franz [mailto:hitrim@...]
Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2004 9:16 AM
To: show-power@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Show-Power] Fwd: Re: Easy Question


--- mjslvh <mjslvh@...> wrote:
> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:27:55 -0000
> From: "mjslvh" <mjslvh@...>
> To: Doug Franz <hitrim@...>
> Subject: Re: Easy Question
>
> Back to the original question- Typically any dimmer requiring over 50
> amps single phase in the US will get wired with Crouse-Hinds 1016
> Series Cam-lock connectors or equals (Try
> http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/camconnectors.pdf for info).  While there
> are pin and sleeve connectors rated at higher amperages, the cost of
> these is high and theaters are always on a budget.
> There are
> consumer type connectors for 50 amp single phase and under (which
> equals low cost, therefore the use of same).
>
> Also, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires the use of double
> neutrals on portable three phase dimming equipment.
> This can be
> accomplished with a single conductor sized at twice the capacity of
> the phase conductors or on larger services by using two conductors.
> Since the cam-locks are only rated for 400-amps, a dimmer rack
> connected to an 800-amp service would have a total of 11 cables
> feeding it  6 phase conductors, 4 neutral conductors and at least one
> ground conductor.  A 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack would need 3 phase
> conductors rated @ 80 amps, 1 neutral rated @ 160 amps and one ground.
>
> As for welding cable, it has never been legal for power feeds.
> Welding cable was used because it was cheap, available and highly
> flexible.  Type W cable is listed in the NEC as a portable power cable
> and is legal.  All power cables must have the jacket marked with the
> listing service type and voltage rating.
> Most welding cable
> is not even marked, it is a low voltage cable and welding tends to be
> low duty cycle which prevents overheating.
>
> The above doesn't even touch on required over-current protection.
> Unfortunately, most M-Es I meet don't know or don't care about the NEC
> codes.  Since anyone who can haul cable can call themselves an
> electrician it may be some time before that changes.
>
> Mark Stickelmaier
> LVH Entertainment Systems
>
>
>
> --- In Show-Power@yahoogroups.com, Doug Franz <hitrim@y...> wrote:
> > Charlie's right, touring shows usually carry
> what's
> > called a set of "tails" that are meant to be hard-wired into a house
> > disconnect panel.  That
> way,
> > there's never an issue of compatibility between
> the
> > show's power connectors and the house's power connectors.  It's the
> > norm here, and therefore
> quite
> > orthodox :-)
> >
> > The tails are usually quite short (2 meters or
> less)
> > and end in cam-type connectors, which the touring show's feeder then
> > connects to.  Of course, if the house also has cam-type connectors
> > that the show
> can
> > connect to, they usually leave the tails in the
> road
> > case.  The tails are sized to match the load of
> the
> > system.  They could be 6 AWG up to 0000 AWG.
> >
> > Now as for the type of cable used, it's true that
> for
> > many years type W "welding" cable was used, but
> end
> > users, manufacturers, facilities, and authorities
> are
> > aware of the need to switch to type SC "stage & lighting" cable.
> > There are pros and cons of each
> > type:  submersibility, sunlight resistance, ruggedness, and so on.
> > Either cable is rated for
> at
> > least 300V, which is fine since North American
> 3-phase
> > power is 120V hot-to-earth and 208V between
> phases.
> > And, although welding cable has never been specifically allowed or
> > disallowed for portable lighting system feeder, it's use is
> > widespread
> enough
> > to call it a "de facto" standard.
> >
> > -Doug
> >
> > --- Charlie Richmond
> > <charlier@r...> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is an industrial power connector and may
> well
> > > have a similar number (or
> > > > equivalent) in North America.  Exactly what
> used
> > > in portable lighting systems
> > > > may vary between manufacturers since I don't
> think
> > > things are necessarily
> > > > standardised but now you are getting away from
> my
> > > area of expertise..... ;-)
> > >
> > > The major caveat in any cross-referencing
> between
> > > North America and the rest of
> > > the world is to be aware that dimmers are always 120V, of course.
> > > Check out this page, which I think is fairly typical of portable
> > > dimmers:
> > >
> > > http://www.etasys.com/lighting-content.htm
> > >
> > > Note that the power input is one or two standard
> 20A
> > > 120V power cords (not
> > > 240V!) or a terminal block to which the user
> wires
> > > the cordset of their choice.
> > > Again, this is not my area of expertise, but my understanding is
> > > that many portable systems are toured with their own
> distro
> > > panels of custom design and
> > > they are wired into the facility's main power
> panel
> > > with (often highly
> > > unorthodox) large pigtails utilising no
> connectors
> > > whatsoever.  The film
> > > industry often uses welding cables because they
> are
> > > really rugged, very flexible
> > > and large - they are also not rated for high
> voltage
> > > and are technically
> > > illegal, too...
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo!
> Companion
> > > Toolbar.
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > >
> >
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/aIMolB/TM
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >      Show-Power-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>





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--- mjslvh <mjslvh@...> wrote:
> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:27:55 -0000
> From: "mjslvh" <mjslvh@...>
> To: Doug Franz <hitrim@...>
> Subject: Re: Easy Question
>
> Back to the original question- Typically any dimmer
> requiring over 50
> amps single phase in the US will get wired with
> Crouse-Hinds 1016
> Series Cam-lock connectors or equals (Try
> http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/camconnectors.pdf for
> info).  While there
> are pin and sleeve connectors rated at higher
> amperages, the cost of
> these is high and theaters are always on a budget.
> There are
> consumer type connectors for 50 amp single phase and
> under (which
> equals low cost, therefore the use of same).
>
> Also, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires
> the use of double
> neutrals on portable three phase dimming equipment.
> This can be
> accomplished with a single conductor sized at twice
> the capacity of
> the phase conductors or on larger services by using
> two conductors.
> Since the cam-locks are only rated for 400-amps, a
> dimmer rack
> connected to an 800-amp service would have a total
> of 11 cables
> feeding it – 6 phase conductors, 4 neutral
> conductors and at least
> one ground conductor.  A 12 x 2.4 dimmer pack would
> need 3 phase
> conductors rated @ 80 amps, 1 neutral rated @ 160
> amps and one ground.
>
> As for welding cable, it has never been legal for
> power feeds.
> Welding cable was used because it was cheap,
> available and highly
> flexible.  Type W cable is listed in the NEC as a
> portable power
> cable and is legal.  All power cables must have the
> jacket marked
> with the listing service type and voltage rating.
> Most welding cable
> is not even marked, it is a low voltage cable and
> welding tends to be
> low duty cycle which prevents overheating.
>
> The above doesn't even touch on required
> over-current protection.
> Unfortunately, most M-Es I meet don't know or don't
> care about the
> NEC codes.  Since anyone who can haul cable can call
> themselves an
> electrician it may be some time before that changes.
>
> Mark Stickelmaier
> LVH Entertainment Systems
>
>
>
> --- In Show-Power@yahoogroups.com, Doug Franz
> <hitrim@y...> wrote:
> > Charlie's right, touring shows usually carry
> what's
> > called a set of "tails" that are meant to be
> > hard-wired into a house disconnect panel.  That
> way,
> > there's never an issue of compatibility between
> the
> > show's power connectors and the house's power
> > connectors.  It's the norm here, and therefore
> quite
> > orthodox :-)
> >
> > The tails are usually quite short (2 meters or
> less)
> > and end in cam-type connectors, which the touring
> > show's feeder then connects to.  Of course, if the
> > house also has cam-type connectors that the show
> can
> > connect to, they usually leave the tails in the
> road
> > case.  The tails are sized to match the load of
> the
> > system.  They could be 6 AWG up to 0000 AWG.
> >
> > Now as for the type of cable used, it's true that
> for
> > many years type W "welding" cable was used, but
> end
> > users, manufacturers, facilities, and authorities
> are
> > aware of the need to switch to type SC "stage &
> > lighting" cable.  There are pros and cons of each
> > type:  submersibility, sunlight resistance,
> > ruggedness, and so on.  Either cable is rated for
> at
> > least 300V, which is fine since North American
> 3-phase
> > power is 120V hot-to-earth and 208V between
> phases.
> > And, although welding cable has never been
> > specifically allowed or disallowed for portable
> > lighting system feeder, it's use is widespread
> enough
> > to call it a "de facto" standard.
> >
> > -Doug
> >
> > --- Charlie Richmond
> > <charlier@r...> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is an industrial power connector and may
> well
> > > have a similar number (or
> > > > equivalent) in North America.  Exactly what
> used
> > > in portable lighting systems
> > > > may vary between manufacturers since I don't
> think
> > > things are necessarily
> > > > standardised but now you are getting away from
> my
> > > area of expertise..... ;-)
> > >
> > > The major caveat in any cross-referencing
> between
> > > North America and the rest of
> > > the world is to be aware that dimmers are always
> > > 120V, of course.  Check out
> > > this page, which I think is fairly typical of
> > > portable dimmers:
> > >
> > > http://www.etasys.com/lighting-content.htm
> > >
> > > Note that the power input is one or two standard
> 20A
> > > 120V power cords (not
> > > 240V!) or a terminal block to which the user
> wires
> > > the cordset of their choice.
> > > Again, this is not my area of expertise, but my
> > > understanding is that many
> > > portable systems are toured with their own
> distro
> > > panels of custom design and
> > > they are wired into the facility's main power
> panel
> > > with (often highly
> > > unorthodox) large pigtails utilising no
> connectors
> > > whatsoever.  The film
> > > industry often uses welding cables because they
> are
> > > really rugged, very flexible
> > > and large - they are also not rated for high
> voltage
> > > and are technically
> > > illegal, too...
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo!
> Companion
> > > Toolbar.
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > >
> >
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/aIMolB/TM
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >      Show-Power-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>





__________________________________
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Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
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Charlie's right, touring shows usually carry what's
called a set of "tails" that are meant to be
hard-wired into a house disconnect panel.  That way,
there's never an issue of compatibility between the
show's power connectors and the house's power
connectors.  It's the norm here, and therefore quite
orthodox :-)

The tails are usually quite short (2 meters or less)
and end in cam-type connectors, which the touring
show's feeder then connects to.  Of course, if the
house also has cam-type connectors that the show can
connect to, they usually leave the tails in the road
case.  The tails are sized to match the load of the
system.  They could be 6 AWG up to 0000 AWG.

Now as for the type of cable used, it's true that for
many years type W "welding" cable was used, but end
users, manufacturers, facilities, and authorities are
aware of the need to switch to type SC "stage &
lighting" cable.  There are pros and cons of each
type:  submersibility, sunlight resistance,
ruggedness, and so on.  Either cable is rated for at
least 300V, which is fine since North American 3-phase
power is 120V hot-to-earth and 208V between phases.
And, although welding cable has never been
specifically allowed or disallowed for portable
lighting system feeder, it's use is widespread enough
to call it a "de facto" standard.

-Doug

--- Charlie Richmond
<charlier@...> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
>
> > This is an industrial power connector and may well
> have a similar number (or
> > equivalent) in North America.  Exactly what used
> in portable lighting systems
> > may vary between manufacturers since I don't think
> things are necessarily
> > standardised but now you are getting away from my
> area of expertise..... ;-)
>
> The major caveat in any cross-referencing between
> North America and the rest of
> the world is to be aware that dimmers are always
> 120V, of course.  Check out
> this page, which I think is fairly typical of
> portable dimmers:
>
> http://www.etasys.com/lighting-content.htm
>
> Note that the power input is one or two standard 20A
> 120V power cords (not
> 240V!) or a terminal block to which the user wires
> the cordset of their choice.
> Again, this is not my area of expertise, but my
> understanding is that many
> portable systems are toured with their own distro
> panels of custom design and
> they are wired into the facility's main power panel
> with (often highly
> unorthodox) large pigtails utilising no connectors
> whatsoever.  The film
> industry often uses welding cables because they are
> really rugged, very flexible
> and large - they are also not rated for high voltage
> and are technically
> illegal, too...
>
> Charlie
>
>
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Most of the packs I've seen in North America are
12x2.4 kW dimmers.  That translates to a possible 80
amps/leg (remember, we're 120V relative to earth
here).

I don't know of any North American 5-wire connector
that handles that kind of power.  The packs usually
use single-pin cam-type connectors.  And, some people
use male connectors on all 5 conductors, and some use
female connectors on ground and neutral.  Most people
that use a variety of equipment will carry
turn-arounds just in case the connectors don't agree.

Good luck with your article.

-Doug

--- John Grimshaw <johng@...> wrote:
> What I am looking for is the US equivalent to the
> Aussie 40A per phase, 5
> pin, 3 phase (so including earth and neutral).
>
http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?showcatno
>
<http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?showcatno&index=83>
> &index=83
>
> In other words, what they would put on a portable
> dimming rack.
>
> All of this is is to see if it is possible to
> include US information in a
> piece on power I am writing (who would have thought
> that trying to add a bit
> of international flavour would be so problematical!)
>
> Interestingly, what the US uses for high power
> (240V) connectors is the
> standard Aussie/New Zealand single phase plug.
>
> Thanks for the extra tips. This will keep me busy
> for a while.
>
>
> Regards
>
> John Grimshaw
>
>
_________________________________________________________
>
> ||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation
> |||
>
> Freelance services for entertainment technology and
> general training
>
> Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage
> Management, Audio and Vision
>
> Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394
>
>
_________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Charlie Richmond
> [mailto:charlier@...]
> Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 9:23 PM
> To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Show-Power] Easy Question
>
>
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:
>
> > http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/G13.pdf
>
> Here's a good site:
>
>
http://www.americor-usa.com/powercords/Page%2015%20List%20of%20Products.htm
>
> You can't get much more detailed than this ;-)
>
> Enjoy!
> Charlie
>
>
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On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:

> This is an industrial power connector and may well have a similar number (or
> equivalent) in North America.  Exactly what used in portable lighting systems
> may vary between manufacturers since I don't think things are necessarily
> standardised but now you are getting away from my area of expertise..... ;-)

The major caveat in any cross-referencing between North America and the rest of
the world is to be aware that dimmers are always 120V, of course.  Check out
this page, which I think is fairly typical of portable dimmers:

http://www.etasys.com/lighting-content.htm

Note that the power input is one or two standard 20A 120V power cords (not
240V!) or a terminal block to which the user wires the cordset of their choice.
Again, this is not my area of expertise, but my understanding is that many
portable systems are toured with their own distro panels of custom design and
they are wired into the facility's main power panel with (often highly
unorthodox) large pigtails utilising no connectors whatsoever.  The film
industry often uses welding cables because they are really rugged, very flexible
and large - they are also not rated for high voltage and are technically
illegal, too...

Charlie

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, John Grimshaw wrote:

> <http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?PrintCatNo&CatNo=WIPM540>

This is an industrial power connector and may well have a similar number (or
equivalent) in North America.  Exactly what used in portable lighting systems
may vary between manufacturers since I don't think things are necessarily
standardised but now you are getting away from my area of expertise..... ;-)

Charlie

hmm that link on my last email doesn't work. This one appears to:
http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?PrintCatNo
<http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?PrintCatNo&CatNo=WIPM540>
&CatNo=WIPM540


Regards

John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________

||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||

Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training

Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision

Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394

_________________________________________________________



   _____

From: Charlie Richmond [mailto:charlier@...]
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 9:23 PM
To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Show-Power] Easy Question


On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:

> http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/G13.pdf

Here's a good site:

http://www.americor-usa.com/powercords/Page%2015%20List%20of%20Products.htm

You can't get much more detailed than this ;-)

Enjoy!
Charlie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I am looking for is the US equivalent to the Aussie 40A per phase, 5
pin, 3 phase (so including earth and neutral).
http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?showcatno
<http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?showcatno&index=83> &index=83

In other words, what they would put on a portable dimming rack.

All of this is is to see if it is possible to include US information in a
piece on power I am writing (who would have thought that trying to add a bit
of international flavour would be so problematical!)

Interestingly, what the US uses for high power (240V) connectors is the
standard Aussie/New Zealand single phase plug.

Thanks for the extra tips. This will keep me busy for a while.


Regards

John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________

||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||

Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training

Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision

Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394

_________________________________________________________




   _____

From: Charlie Richmond [mailto:charlier@...]
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 9:23 PM
To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Show-Power] Easy Question


On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:

> http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/G13.pdf

Here's a good site:

http://www.americor-usa.com/powercords/Page%2015%20List%20of%20Products.htm

You can't get much more detailed than this ;-)

Enjoy!
Charlie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Charlie Richmond wrote:

> http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/G13.pdf

Here's a good site:

http://www.americor-usa.com/powercords/Page%2015%20List%20of%20Products.htm

You can't get much more detailed than this ;-)

Enjoy!
Charlie

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, John Grimshaw wrote:

> Charlie - thanks for the start. It was the 10,000 responses in all my google
> attempts that led me to ask if anyone knew of a shortcut!

What exactly do you want to know?  Pinouts for dryer/range plugs?

http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/G13.pdf

> It is all so much easier here in Australia.

And in the UK (except that colour codes are being harmonised with the EU...)

Charlie

Charlie - thanks for the start. It was the 10,000 responses in all my google
attempts that led me to ask if anyone knew of a shortcut!

I may yet have to find myself a tame US sparky :)

It is all so much easier here in Australia.


Regards

John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________

||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||

Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training

Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision

Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394

_________________________________________________________



   _____

From: Charlie Richmond [mailto:charlier@...]
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2004 7:19 PM
To: Show-Power@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Show-Power] Easy Question


On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, John Grimshaw wrote:

> Can anyone point me towards a good resource for info on US power
connectors,
> particularly three phase (I assume there is a standard three connector in
> the US!). Googling is giving me circuits and too many options to work it
> out!

This is a bit tricky but here are some sites I've found:

http://www.nema.org/
http://www.marchansen.com/tn102/

It looks like the standard is ANSI C119 and others and you will have to pay
to
get exact technical specs but if you are just interested in the general
configurations, types and capacities of cords and connectors available, try
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22ac+power+cords%22>
&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22ac+power+cords%22
and 10,500 pages come up ;-)

Good luck!
Charlie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, John Grimshaw wrote:

> Can anyone point me towards a good resource for info on US power connectors,
> particularly three phase (I assume there is a standard three connector in
> the US!). Googling is giving me circuits and too many options to work it
> out!

This is a bit tricky but here are some sites I've found:

http://www.nema.org/
http://www.marchansen.com/tn102/

It looks like the standard is ANSI C119 and others and you will have to pay to
get exact technical specs but if you are just interested in the general
configurations, types and capacities of cords and connectors available, try
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22ac+power+cords%22
and 10,500 pages come up ;-)

Good luck!
Charlie

Here is something I was going to start asking someone about, and it might as
well be here...

Can anyone point me towards a good resource for info on US power connectors,
particularly three phase (I assume there is a standard three connector in
the US!). Googling is giving me circuits and too many options to work it
out!


Regards

John Grimshaw

_________________________________________________________

||| Writing ||| Training ||| Analysis||| Operation |||

Freelance services for entertainment technology and general training

Serious Technology // Lighting, Staging, Stage Management, Audio and Vision

Call +61 2 4758 6853      Mobile: 0408 833 394

_________________________________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've recently rediscovered how expensive cam-lock tees
are.  Has anybody found a cheap supplier?

Also, I'm looking for distros that could break a 400A
3-phase service into four breakered or fused 100A
services.

-Doug

=====
Clinton had sex with an intern.
Bush sent hundreds of Americans to their death so he could funnel billions of
dollars of our money into the pockets of his buddies.
We tried to impeach Clinton.
What should we do with Bush?




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Hi folks -

Just to let you know that we now have 10 members so the discussion might
actually get off the ground if someone were to start posting... ;-)

Cheers!
Charlie

+ Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show Control Ltd +
+ http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com -- http://www.AuraShowControl.com +
+---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in Control" ----+
+------ To get info or join the Show Control Mailing List go to: ------+
+----------- http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com/sclist.html -----------+
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   "Let distribution undo excess - And each man have enough"
    - King Lear